Coach McKie you know I love your stuff but split back veer man! In my experience it’s been easier to stop wishbone teams and much harder to stop double wing teams. Maybe it’s just the teams we are playing. But in my opinion split back veer is the best run first offense ever. Think maybe you can do a pistol/gun run first offense list?
I only coached varsity for a couple years but we scored 40-50ppg with the single wing offense. Unbalanced double tight with the wing back lining up and motioning all over the place. Double team at the POA every play. Wedge on guard>wedge on center. And the pass games easy.
Coach, the hambone is not Coach Matsakis (mat-sak-is) offense it was Ben Griffiths and Paul Johnson it’s flexbone and run and shoot and there are videos of Georgia Southern 80s championship teams running it was called the Hambone because the QB was Tracy Ham.. Coach Matsakis ran/runs a run and shoot with jet fly I’m sure Coach Liotta could fill you in
Wing T absolute worst.. reminds me of my coach in high school say “I’ve been coaching for 30 years I think I know what the hell I’m talking about” as the defense calls out every play we run and go 3 and out every possession
It is still very relevant when two of the most successful high school football teams ever still run it. De La Salle (Cali) and John Curtis Christian (Louisiana)! Just sayin!
@@phoult37 private is weird? Private schools are a fact of life, I have never coached for one but have had schedules loaded with them. Still have to play.
@@agentrazz1 Weird that the two most successful HS are both private...it's sarcasm. Citing private school X does system Y, is not a good example since those schools get better talent than their competition and could run any system and still be effective.
Flexbone is better than wishbone. Without getting into details, the wishbone option teams evolved into the flexbone, which is why all the collegiate option teams are flexbone as well as the premiere option HS teams. If you have a dominant O-line and stud backs, then wishbone is good, but if you have that talent then you should be running gun air raid, power, etc. anyway
@@CoachMcKie Those teams would have success, especially since modern defenses are designed for space and speed. Too many teams try to run spread/air raid/run shoot, etc but don't have the dudes to pull it off. They'd be better off investing time in program culture and weight room and running an offense that is unique to their conference. Plus side note: when you play in cold weather climates, "pass first" becomes prohibitive in late playoffs when the temp is in the 30s with blowing wind. Yet I still see teams trying to build their offense around the passing game...foolish imo. Sorry for the long reply lol
Flex is just a more modern wishbone, same offense really just different look, the problems with the wishbone started when teams started to load the box , which lead Bear Bryant to put the Halfbacks in a slot position to present the 4 vert threat .
Notre Dame used inverted safeties for the halfbacks and had the Mike linebacker responsible for the fullback all you need to do after that is contain the qb and the bone is broken
I enjoy hearing you talking offenses in both videos, but I could do without all the disrespect for football systems and coaches that made our game what it is today. I would love to hear you make real arguments against the Wing T, maybe in a video debating a wing T coach.
@@CoachMcKieI love the wing t and don’t think you’re disrespecting coaches. It was a funny joke. A great jab at other coaches. I would rather run the gun-T because you can do much more out of it. The only disadvantages you get are that your runs don’t hit as quick.
What about the Single Wing and Spread Single Wing??? The T-Series and Spin Series will make your head spin. The Straight or Power will steam roll a defense. Wedge series will make a defense want to quit.
@@CoachMcKie unbalanced line spread formations and an increase in passing threats. It spreads the defense and opens up the run game. Run with Tempo or with a Sugar Huddle and Shifts gives defenses alignment issues. Jim Ahern is one of the masters of it, and so is Bill Wiles
You missed the greatest clock eating ground pounding offense I have ever run. And I have run them all. The Single Wing impressed the hell out of me. With nothing athletes we averaged 350 yards rushing a game and it made a perennial loser into a playoff team. That coupled with the 10-1 Special defense transformed this program.
Where in the world is the Split Back Veer???? Possibly the best offense to run at the high school level. Look up Garnet Valley Football and you’ll see some incredible SBV stuff.
Ranking the hambone and not split back veer as a run first offense shows a huge gap in football knowledge. Ever heard of De La Salle and the 151 game winning streak? The movie When the Game Stands Tall? Remember the Titans? Sorry, lost credibility.
Look up the Power T. Specifically Zeeland West 2006 State Championship. Just like with the Double Wing, the Power T is a bastardize relative of the Wing-T that is more potent imo when ran properly. Very popular in Michigan.
@@CoachMcKie I don’t know much about the Slot T. I watched a Slot T high school team on RUclips not too long ago. The difference I believe is Back Alignment and the “go to run” are different. Power T’s go to is Power, Slot T’s go to is Buck.
Slot T is an offense that any HS could run. It's dependent more on misdirection and how badly you want to run through someone than an athlete based offense like spread. The only knock on it is you gotta have some good guards and smart lineman
@@CoachMcKie I'm not a coach just yet. I'm going to go to college this fall and hopefully in 4 years I'll be coaching. I'd love to hop on the show and talk a little bit but I've got a lot to learn until then. Slot T is sort of like a secret club. If you aren't in it then you aren't in but if you are in the loop then you're in
Love the gun-T. You get the runs and if then play calling of the wing-T but you get rpos, more spacing for passing. It’s easier to pass. I will say the runs don’t hit as quick but I’ll take the spacing and more diversity in the play-calling. I would also go to a wishbone or wing t look in the goal line. Also you do have rpos but your still wanting to be a heavy run first team.
I live in Illinois. In the area I'm in everybody and their damn dog runs either Double Wing, Wing T or Spread. And not only that, everybody runs that Oregon spread with Read options and receiver screens and bubbles. In 9 games I watched I witness 2 different offenses. It's boring in these parts. I wanna see a single wing or a power t
Wishbone is only effective if you have,(1.) Minimum of two hosses in the backfield primarily FB and 1 halfback. Or (2.) 3 hosses in the backfield. Ultimately it takes a Really fast and quick set of backs to run it.
Coach Mckie What do you think of a the west coast offense using split back and sniffer formations in pistol or shotgun formations that use the run but also have the ball control huddle teach of reading defense 1 2 3 go or no good?
@@CoachMcKie the kiffin / briles / heupel stuff. Rpo you to death, then hit you with pop passes and pa crossers, deep choice, railroad, dig with a hitch... ucf is the most extreme example. Sark is probably the more mainstream version. Kiffin and kendall run the more Baylor-ish versions (best versions) right now...
Or they coach at a small school with 165lb OL who can't pass pro and have a QB who can't throw lol...I coach against some "pass first" small schools and it's embarrassing to watch
Or we just know how to coach and call the run game. Some still live by the saying “3 things happen when you pass the ball and 2 are bad” we averaged over 300 yds rushing a game over a 5 year span and 8 yds a carry. Why pass?
Coach McKie you know I love your stuff but split back veer man! In my experience it’s been easier to stop wishbone teams and much harder to stop double wing teams. Maybe it’s just the teams we are playing. But in my opinion split back veer is the best run first offense ever. Think maybe you can do a pistol/gun run first offense list?
Heck yeah man. Point me in the right direction for split back veer and I’ll dive in.
@@CoachMcKie
DeLaSalle on RUclips has great highlights and games of their split back veer offense.
De LaSalle won 152 straight running Splitback Veer.
I only coached varsity for a couple years but we scored 40-50ppg with the single wing offense. Unbalanced double tight with the wing back lining up and motioning all over the place. Double team at the POA every play. Wedge on guard>wedge on center. And the pass games easy.
My school runs a wing T and we NEVER pass the ball and we suck it’s the same 3 running plays the whole game every time
Coach, the hambone is not Coach Matsakis (mat-sak-is) offense it was Ben Griffiths and Paul Johnson it’s flexbone and run and shoot and there are videos of Georgia Southern 80s championship teams running it was called the Hambone because the QB was Tracy Ham.. Coach Matsakis ran/runs a run and shoot with jet fly I’m sure Coach Liotta could fill you in
Sting and shoot at Emporia State. Article in AFM in 96 or 97.
Wing T absolute worst.. reminds me of my coach in high school say “I’ve been coaching for 30 years I think I know what the hell I’m talking about” as the defense calls out every play we run and go 3 and out every possession
What?!?! I coached the Split-Back Veer for most of my career...smh...it didn't even make the list. LOL Just no respect smh LOL
No one ever talks about it so I thought it died out…
It is still very relevant when two of the most successful high school football teams ever still run it. De La Salle (Cali) and John Curtis Christian (Louisiana)! Just sayin!
@@agentrazz1 2 private schools...weird
@@phoult37 private is weird? Private schools are a fact of life, I have never coached for one but have had schedules loaded with them. Still have to play.
@@agentrazz1 Weird that the two most successful HS are both private...it's sarcasm. Citing private school X does system Y, is not a good example since those schools get better talent than their competition and could run any system and still be effective.
Flexbone is better than wishbone. Without getting into details, the wishbone option teams evolved into the flexbone, which is why all the collegiate option teams are flexbone as well as the premiere option HS teams. If you have a dominant O-line and stud backs, then wishbone is good, but if you have that talent then you should be running gun air raid, power, etc. anyway
What do you think will happen if people went back to the wishbone?
@@CoachMcKie Those teams would have success, especially since modern defenses are designed for space and speed. Too many teams try to run spread/air raid/run shoot, etc but don't have the dudes to pull it off. They'd be better off investing time in program culture and weight room and running an offense that is unique to their conference.
Plus side note: when you play in cold weather climates, "pass first" becomes prohibitive in late playoffs when the temp is in the 30s with blowing wind. Yet I still see teams trying to build their offense around the passing game...foolish imo. Sorry for the long reply lol
Flex is just a more modern wishbone, same offense really just different look, the problems with the wishbone started when teams started to load the box , which lead Bear Bryant to put the Halfbacks in a slot position to present the 4 vert threat .
Notre Dame used inverted safeties for the halfbacks and had the Mike linebacker responsible for the fullback all you need to do after that is contain the qb and the bone is broken
@@MrKeepnit100 Correct, Parseghian also had the entire front pinch to take away the dive and force the read, AKA the "Okie dog pinch" defense.
@@kellri35 they called the scheme the "backbone"
I'm sorry, your video cut off just as you were about to talk about the wing-T, the greatest offense ever.
My computer didn’t want to talk about it
I enjoy hearing you talking offenses in both videos, but I could do without all the disrespect for football systems and coaches that made our game what it is today. I would love to hear you make real arguments against the Wing T, maybe in a video debating a wing T coach.
How am I disrespecting coaches?
@@CoachMcKieI love the wing t and don’t think you’re disrespecting coaches. It was a funny joke. A great jab at other coaches. I would rather run the gun-T because you can do much more out of it. The only disadvantages you get are that your runs don’t hit as quick.
What about the Single Wing and Spread Single Wing??? The T-Series and Spin Series will make your head spin. The Straight or Power will steam roll a defense. Wedge series will make a defense want to quit.
What’s the difference between single wing and spread single wing?
@@CoachMcKie unbalanced line spread formations and an increase in passing threats. It spreads the defense and opens up the run game. Run with Tempo or with a Sugar Huddle and Shifts gives defenses alignment issues. Jim Ahern is one of the masters of it, and so is Bill Wiles
@@CoachMcKie Apopka Florida won a couple state titles with it
You missed the greatest clock eating ground pounding offense I have ever run. And I have run them all. The Single Wing impressed the hell out of me. With nothing athletes we averaged 350 yards rushing a game and it made a perennial loser into a playoff team. That coupled with the 10-1 Special defense transformed this program.
Lol, love how you ended the video.
Haha thanks
Flexbone over Wishbone all day. Most traditional Wishbone teams have converted to the Flexbone.
You keep leaving out the split veer I've seen teams with NOBODY dominate defenses running and passing with it.
Adding the DW as a middle school offense shows little understanding of this offense.
5th most yards in the state of Michigan running pistol wingT
Where in the world is the Split Back Veer???? Possibly the best offense to run at the high school level. Look up Garnet Valley Football and you’ll see some incredible SBV stuff.
Point me in the direction to learn it and I'm game.
I think he should do a video on the best defenses to run
Great idea coach
Ranking the hambone and not split back veer as a run first offense shows a huge gap in football knowledge. Ever heard of De La Salle and the 151 game winning streak? The movie When the Game Stands Tall? Remember the Titans? Sorry, lost credibility.
Who's De La Salle?
@@CoachMcKie usatodayhss.com/2017/concord-de-la-salle-26-year-norcal-dominance-winning-streak-coaches-consistency-continuity/amp
@@CoachMcKie you MUST look them up, they are the best split back veer team in the nation. Their offense is incredible
Look up the Power T. Specifically Zeeland West 2006 State Championship. Just like with the Double Wing, the Power T is a bastardize relative of the Wing-T that is more potent imo when ran properly. Very popular in Michigan.
What's the difference between the Power T and the Slot T?
@@CoachMcKie I don’t know much about the Slot T. I watched a Slot T high school team on RUclips not too long ago. The difference I believe is Back Alignment and the “go to run” are different. Power T’s go to is Power, Slot T’s go to is Buck.
Slot T is an offense that any HS could run. It's dependent more on misdirection and how badly you want to run through someone than an athlete based offense like spread. The only knock on it is you gotta have some good guards and smart lineman
I would love to get a slot t coach on the Showcast but they don’t want to talk
@@CoachMcKie I'm not a coach just yet. I'm going to go to college this fall and hopefully in 4 years I'll be coaching. I'd love to hop on the show and talk a little bit but I've got a lot to learn until then. Slot T is sort of like a secret club. If you aren't in it then you aren't in but if you are in the loop then you're in
Love the gun-T. You get the runs and if then play calling of the wing-T but you get rpos, more spacing for passing. It’s easier to pass. I will say the runs don’t hit as quick but I’ll take the spacing and more diversity in the play-calling. I would also go to a wishbone or wing t look in the goal line. Also you do have rpos but your still wanting to be a heavy run first team.
I live in Illinois. In the area I'm in everybody and their damn dog runs either Double Wing, Wing T or Spread. And not only that, everybody runs that Oregon spread with Read options and receiver screens and bubbles. In 9 games I watched I witness 2 different offenses. It's boring in these parts. I wanna see a single wing or a power t
The hambone is actually the sting n shoot offense. Look up Emporia State videos under Manny Matsakis
Wishbone is only effective if you have,(1.) Minimum of two hosses in the backfield primarily FB and 1 halfback. Or (2.) 3 hosses in the backfield. Ultimately it takes a
Really fast and quick set of backs to run it.
I like how you ended that and got out of dodge quickly :) smart move. wing-t coaches all over are searching
Coach Mckie What do you think of a the west coast offense using split back and sniffer formations in pistol or shotgun formations that use the run but also have the ball control huddle teach of reading defense 1 2 3 go or no good?
Coach McKie loves trolling run first guys lol
Wishbone over Flexbone is a wild take.
I like the Maryland I formation
Spot on assessment of the Wing T!!
Haha thanks coach.
I enjoy hearing you talking offenses, football systems and for coaches it is a lesson
Thanks for the kind words coach and for watching.
I love it... punt every down... 🤣
haha got to man.
Where is split back veer and smashmouth spread?
What is the Smashmouth spread?
@@CoachMcKie the kiffin / briles / heupel stuff. Rpo you to death, then hit you with pop passes and pa crossers, deep choice, railroad, dig with a hitch... ucf is the most extreme example. Sark is probably the more mainstream version. Kiffin and kendall run the more Baylor-ish versions (best versions) right now...
Anyone still running a run 1st offense, is self-absorbed, an excuse maker, boring, hates kids & is thus a terrible person. Do better.😂🤣😂
Or they coach at a small school with 165lb OL who can't pass pro and have a QB who can't throw lol...I coach against some "pass first" small schools and it's embarrassing to watch
Or we just know how to coach and call the run game. Some still live by the saying “3 things happen when you pass the ball and 2 are bad” we averaged over 300 yds rushing a game over a 5 year span and 8 yds a carry. Why pass?
what makes you say that coach?