A lot of people in the comments section are dismissing the idea of training in Z1. I get it. I used to be in the “I can’t run that slow” camp too. But I didn’t start running sub-3 and then sub-2-fifty marathons until I did my base runs really slowly. We’re talking 2-2.5 minutes mile slower than marathon pace. I coach a lot of other people too-on a model based on the tri-phasic model that Andrew espouses-who have become converts to training in Z1. A bunch of them just had major PBs in the marathon and half marathon at Houston last weekend. And these are fast people who have marathoning for years. Keep up the great content, Andrew. As a runner and a coach, I value what you bring to the greater community!
@ I mean, there have been whole books written on the subject if you want context. But the TL;DR is that if you truly run slowly on your easy days, it allows you to run more volume, give the body more opportunity to recover, and increase all of the neuromuscular connectivity and aerobic fitness that comes with that greater volume. But your workouts and race-specific runs will be higher quality. It’s frustrating because people think they are running easy when they could (and often should) be running even more easily. Others are under the impression that they should finish each run feeling like they improved their fitness. The reality is that if they ran more slowly, they would be improving their aerobic fitness-and allowing the body to recover and absorb that fitness-but it wouldn’t be something you tangibly “feel.” Any context I give would not be nearly as effective as actually trying it in earnest and seeing how your own results are affected.
@@thecaptainchas2820 I have done it. And I did not start out my training by running in zone 1, because zone 2 was easy enough that I could recover well/ run more volume in it. All the while benefitting from the better improvement of fitness that zone 2 brings (over zone 1). It's only after my fitness had improved enough that zone 2 stoped being easy that I did my base training more in zone 1. If your fitness is not good, you don't need zone 1. You will recover well enough from zone 2, and get more fitness out of it as well as less frustration.
@@thecaptainchas2820 I have done it. If your fitness is not developed enough, zone 2 will be easy enough to recover well while you get better improvements (over zone 1). And save yourself some frustration all the while. It is only after zone 2 stops being easy, when your fitness is developed enough/ speed is improved, that recovery becomes a problem. And then zone 1 comes into play. As you said yourself, "fast people who have marathoning for years". Year, those are probably going to thrive of lots of zone 1. People without already high aerobic fitness not so much.
Yup. If a lot of runners doubled their mileage and kept it easy, and added strides, they’d do very well in the long term. Virtually everyone runs moderate most of the time. Ok fine. But it’s an opportunity cost to develop aerobically or neuromuscularly in better ways. See “base training” in the Run Elite book, or various base training videos I have in this channel
One of the best things I’ve done for myself as a runner is have an expert analyze my data and provide accurate HR zones. I had my zone 2 way too low- if I didn’t have that info I would feel very defeated by this advice! But you’re right-my easy runs naturally fall in a high zone 1 and low zone 2. Thanks for sharing -
I went to a lactate/vo2 test 1,5 years ago, and got zones definition in a 5 zone heartratemodel . Zone 2 was set very high because of high lactate-treshold (126-146bpm when max heartrate was 178) To hold high zone 2 is hard, so when going for hours low and medium zone 2 and zone 1 is ok. On such rides I try to limit the steepest climbingpace to below 146, believing that will prevent to much lactate, but I will slow down to an easier pace when it gets possible (on top of the climb).
Thanks for looking at meta-analyzis and thanks for giving us zone 1. I always thought zone 1 is underestimated and forgotten in the zone 2 hype. When I do a 2,5 or 3 hour ride I usually dilute the zone 2 with a lot zone 1. I am no runner, but a middleaged biker struggling with weightissues, and truly believe in going all over the zones and my goal is consistence, averaging 7 hours a week and averaging 356 hour each year. I usually put easy days, rest or strenght between the fast days. Previous week I had an interesting ride, going in zone 1 for more than three hours (drifting to zone 2 because of fatigue in the fourth and fifth hour), but climbing 1690 meters. This easy on the heart ride was very heavy on the legs keeping constant high torque. I got really tired, but an interesting effect was that the next day I was able to ride 30 minutes at 111% treshold speed. Fastest ride in 2025.
@ True. I like it. I think the only junkmiles are them that causes injury or too much burnout. About walking. I have read 3x gold by Gjermund Eggen. In 1966 he won 3 world champion gold in cross country skiing. He wrote that the only training in a couple summer months was walking in the mountains looking after his sheeps. Myself I prioritize fun, and fun supports consistency. I also like the idea of doing different sports in order to get variation on the load on different muscles and joints. Orientering , running in the forest is nice.
Interesting stuff thanks for the breakdown of the study. Just had to take a 6wk break due to knee pain which turns out to be arthritis. Struggling to work out how to structure my week with only the 3 runs my body will tolerate. Signed up for my first marathon in October just before my knee flared up.
Regarding running in Zone 1/ Zone 2, evoke endurance puts the top of zone 2 (LT1) in relationship to the top of zone 3 (LT 2). As prescribed by them, if the difference in heart rate is
@ Well, at the beginning of my training last year, the top of my zone 2/ LT1 was at ca. 158, top of zone 3/ LT2 at 183. That is like a 13,7% difference. Next time I tested my zone 2 a few weeks later, it was at ca. 170. And yes, that thing isn't fixed. For under-trained people it will go up to a point. That's a difference of just 7%, hence I started doing more zone 1 and reduced zone 2. I think my speed in zone 1 at this point was also faster than my speed at the start in zone 2. So I had no problem with doing it at all.
@@christiankennedy9417 Thanks for the explanation. I did the math on mine and I am at 8.9% so I guess that means I could do more zone 1 than zone 2. I did feel like my zone 2 was getting fast and while it was easy aerobically, my muscular system was struggling a bit especially if I did hilly runs. Now that I am 7 weeks out from the marathon, the workouts are plenty of stimulus, so zone 1 sounds awesome.
Spot on!! Can’t compare zones of elite with normal runners unless you are in sub 3.5 hrs group. When I can run sub 4 hrs marathon in zone 2, I will start running my easy miles on zone 1.
Thank you, Coach Andrew. So well explained! I know those little edits like the running baby, "super power" graphic, and the old guy punching the bag take time, but they sure make the videos fun to watch. 🤩 We notice!
Great video again I have only been running for a year and just started adding weight training a couple weeks ago so dropped my running intensity and distance back to not burn out. I now gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday Zone 1 walk Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. Running is Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday all easy zone 2 with a little bit of harder mixed in on Thursday. It is good to know the zone one stuff still counts as Garmin calls it a recovery and it kind of is
Would walking in the lower zones be beneficial? Assuming one is too unfit to run in those zones. Or would running in zone 3 until you get fit enough be better? @@runelitecoach
@runelitecoach which zone system are you using? It seems this study utilizes 7 zones (see page 9) and zone 1 ends at 72% of MaxHR. In a Garmin model or similar 5-zone models that would be around upper end zone 2 lower zone 3. maybe this might be important to stress the difference
Cool stuff thanks for the idea. I don’t subscribe to doing any vo2max work in general. There’s a section in my book on why , I also have a few videos on why.
What is Zone 1, as in how is it calculated? Also, does the research say why Zone 1 is so beneficial or is it simply because a runner can cope with higher volumes?
Does the warmup, cooldown, recovery intervals count towards the workout miles or the easy miles? I.e Does 12 x 400m count as 3 miles? Or does it count as let’s say 6 after I consider my warmup, cooldown, recovery intervals?
It would be helpful if everyone could agree on what the different zones are. I have been doing this for years and read dozens of books (including yours) and I have yet to figure it out. Percentage of heart rate? OK, requires I actually know my max, which is p@ossible only in a lab. Otherwise I have to follow various crude ways (including Garmin etc, for which I could drink a quart of whisky and guess more accurately in my experience.) You mentioned that Zone three for this training would be about a 10k or half marathon pace, if I heard correctly. As most run both at a much faster pace than we do marathons, how would that be possible. I have more faith on the old, supposedly obsolete talk test for easy runs.
I’m currently reading your book. My son is ten and loves racing fun runs and now wants to run xc once he is in middle school and high school. What I’ve taken from the book that I like so far is build a good base along with using striders and some hills for the fast twitch fibers and adding in some longer interval workouts that are near his race pace. Anything you would add?
I’m curious what this means for training on a macroscopic scale(over a lifetime). You often hear that it’s best to develop speed through track races when you’re younger before eventually moving on to longer distances like the half marathon and marathon. I think this video may provide some deeper insight into that.
For track, more coaches and pros are leaning towards lactate threshold(LT1, LT2, or both/day), some doing almost no race pace intervals, just some sprints/strides. Bowerman,NAU, Colorado. I’m assuming because of the Norwegians. But there’s still a lot of success with interval training at race pace or faster. Is this a case of all roads lead to Rome? I think it would make an interesting video topic…intervals versus lactate threshold for track. (I found no videos on this comparing the two).
There’s a lot of research on this. Short answer is that double threshold runs are only for super well trained elite runners. It’s silly to do it for virtually all runners in most cases. Better to do a single threshold run and then another workout on the other side of race pace (so if threshold is faster than your race pace for whatever distance you’d do an endurance workout next. If it’s slower, like for a miler, you’d do a speed session next). Ok start of a video outline right there! It’s a good idea for a video thanks. I may film this next week
@ yes thanks, I just use double threshold as an example of pros. What I really want is a head-to-head comparison between single threshold(LT1 OR LT2) and intervals, let’s say 1/week. That would make for an informative and possibly controversial video.
Yeah, I find it hard to run in Zone 1, maybe this doesnt work for slower runners? I do my regular 5 milers at M pace, 7:30/mile, which is an entire minute off my 6:30/mile 5k. Any slower and it feels real slow. Is this typical for us non-elite paced runners?
I would be inclined to agree Z1 can be way to slow. The slower you are the narrower your pace 'chart' is. So for more Elite runners it is easier to run Z1 because it's still faster pace than most of us can do.
It's not just that it dosn't work for slow runners. It is not needed, and would be detrimental to you training! Runners with good enough fitness have to do all that zone 1, because zone 2 stops being easy. As you get faster, there is an increased stress on your legs. And that impacts recovery. Better runners do zone 1 in order to keep doing high volume of easy running. But zone 2 is still better in terms of improving your fitness. It is the better stimulus, so as long as it is still easy and you can recover from doing it a lot, you do zone 2. Once that's no longer the case, your hart rate at zone 1/2 will have gone up and you will be faster in them as well.
It’s interesting. We don’t find it difficult to walk. But we find it difficult to run slow? I hear you though, it is somewhat hard…when you’re fresh. But that’s the point. Rack up a higher mileage and it’s not so easy anymore to run slow. Jump in on a 100 mile race and slow will feel hard. So it just takes discipline to stay out longER and keep it slowER so you don’t get injured. But you can get the burn by simply adding strides and hill sprints. Hence base training
This is nice, but most of us are not elite runners. I often find it hard to translate these results to everyday people who need to balance work, family, and some running.
Not sure about everyone but zone 2 is definitely not my marathon pace. My marathon pace is between zone 3 and 4 by almost all 5 zone methods. I think you're saying the same thing almost everyone else is saying but with a different definition of zones.
@@runelitecoach And I'm not saying it's your opinion. I'm saying that even this paper says that Marathon pace is zone 3 in their 7-zone scale "The diference between half-marathon and marathon speed is very small on an absolute scale among world-class long-distance runners. Hence, half-marathon pace represents the upper part of zone 3, while marathon pace represents the lower part of the same zone." (table 3, note c), but you mention zone 2 as endurance/marathon. "The most consistent training intensity characteristic of elite distance runners is that most of the running distance (≥80%) is performed at low intensity throughout the training year (corresponding to zone 1 and 2 in our 7-zone scale), in line with previous research. Most of this training is in turn executed in zone 1, and the duration of the easy runs is very stable throughout the training year. Because zone 2 is closer to marathon pace, a higher proportion of zone 2 is applied by marathon specialists, particularly during the specifc preparation period" But you seem to ignore the second half of this, saying "Zone one, zone one, zone one zone one baby. If you push it even into zone two, your volume is going to suffer, so don't don't do it. Zone one. that's what Elites are doing." Again, I think it just comes down to how you're defining zones which, as the paper says, has no consensus. But in their own 7-zone table, they list competition pace for Long Distance Runners as Zone 3
why is it that when I watch these elite runners on youtube doing their "week of training" all their runs seem pretty damn high intensity and their easy run sure don't seem to be in zone 1.
Seriously, I'm always confused with all these things, and that is because I train just six days a week and just one session everyday. I do three easy runs and three intense runs, and I have been running for six years with a 34minutes 10km pb. My intense workouts are always threshold of up to 15km splitting it to 3km by 5 and also a vo2 training of 8 to 9km and long runs of 25km and also the other weeks 8secs hill sprints and 200m and 400m by 20. After calculating all these, my easy runs are always just 50 to 40 percents of my training, and Seriously the last two years has been my most consistent years as I improved alot within these two years from 39minutes to 34minutes, and I train like this year round without injury or crazy fatigue, I don't even see those training has big deal because it has been a lifestyle training at that intensity as a fun runner, I don't even takes more than 2 weeks off training in a year.
Who cares about zones. I just run. Lots of easy and some fast running. For elites, Zone 1 is Zone 1. For amateurs, Zone 1 is Zone 2. HAHA. Common sense: if you run too hard too many days, you will not recover as fast. I don't get caught up in Zone training. Overtime, these zones need to be adjusted anyway as you get fitter. I do a lactate threshold HR instead. I take the highest HR last 20 minutes of my most recent 10k race to determine my zones. I do this yearly.
Cool man. Just run then. This video was on “new research” so it’s intended for people who want to learn about that. And for someone who claims not to care about zones you put a lot of effort in to calculating your LT.
Meta studies are generally regarded as highly biased because the people doing them tend to cherry pick the studies they cite that fit their preconceptions
That’s not remotely true. A literature review can be that way, but a meta analysis must include all available papers that fit the parameters set. I think you got those 2 mixed up
Additionally for a meta analysis, if the researcher chooses to not include a paper that would fit, they write about why, so you can then add it in if you would like and do your own calcs
Meta analysis is arguably the highest quality paper that can be written if done well. This one looked at mostly the actual training plans of elite runners. So yeah…cherry picking elite runners is a good idea. You name the runner, they’re part of the research group. This paper was pretty high quality. And there’s nothing for sale and no conflict of interest.
Holy fk, Zone1? 😆😂🤣🤦♂️ Most of my "easy miles" are in Zone 2, occasionally approaching Zone 3. But I suspect Garmin has my zones way off. Apple seems to automatically calculate my zones better.
It depends on how you let your watch determine your zones. You can't just buy a watch and expext it to give accurate estimates without proper testing. Garmin has a specific test function to get you in the ballpark. You do need a chest strap.
The watches can't determine your zones. These are highly individual. You have to do some actual good testing. Lactate, or do a heart rate drift test. And then, re-test after a few weeks! Your zones aren't fixed, they respond to training. With enough good training, the heart rate of your zone 2 will go up (to a point).
Let’s goo. This is your best video yet. I’ve been waiting for this one for a while. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! The next one coming up is an extension of this, looking at training volume. Stay tuned! And thanks for watching Dan
Yes I agree with Dans statement
Grab this book, it's awesome and helped me a lot! 🎉
A lot of people in the comments section are dismissing the idea of training in Z1. I get it. I used to be in the “I can’t run that slow” camp too. But I didn’t start running sub-3 and then sub-2-fifty marathons until I did my base runs really slowly. We’re talking 2-2.5 minutes mile slower than marathon pace. I coach a lot of other people too-on a model based on the tri-phasic model that Andrew espouses-who have become converts to training in Z1. A bunch of them just had major PBs in the marathon and half marathon at Houston last weekend. And these are fast people who have marathoning for years.
Keep up the great content, Andrew. As a runner and a coach, I value what you bring to the greater community!
How about to just provide some context to the idea?
It's so predictable that people are frustrated.
@ I mean, there have been whole books written on the subject if you want context. But the TL;DR is that if you truly run slowly on your easy days, it allows you to run more volume, give the body more opportunity to recover, and increase all of the neuromuscular connectivity and aerobic fitness that comes with that greater volume. But your workouts and race-specific runs will be higher quality. It’s frustrating because people think they are running easy when they could (and often should) be running even more easily. Others are under the impression that they should finish each run feeling like they improved their fitness. The reality is that if they ran more slowly, they would be improving their aerobic fitness-and allowing the body to recover and absorb that fitness-but it wouldn’t be something you tangibly “feel.”
Any context I give would not be nearly as effective as actually trying it in earnest and seeing how your own results are affected.
@@thecaptainchas2820 I have done it.
And I did not start out my training by running in zone 1, because zone 2 was easy enough that I could recover well/ run more volume in it.
All the while benefitting from the better improvement of fitness that zone 2 brings (over zone 1).
It's only after my fitness had improved enough that zone 2 stoped being easy that I did my base training more in zone 1.
If your fitness is not good, you don't need zone 1.
You will recover well enough from zone 2, and get more fitness out of it as well as less frustration.
@@thecaptainchas2820 I have done it.
If your fitness is not developed enough, zone 2 will be easy enough to recover well while you get better improvements (over zone 1).
And save yourself some frustration all the while.
It is only after zone 2 stops being easy, when your fitness is developed enough/ speed is improved, that recovery becomes a problem.
And then zone 1 comes into play.
As you said yourself, "fast people who have marathoning for years". Year, those are probably going to thrive of lots of zone 1.
People without already high aerobic fitness not so much.
Yup. If a lot of runners doubled their mileage and kept it easy, and added strides, they’d do very well in the long term. Virtually everyone runs moderate most of the time. Ok fine. But it’s an opportunity cost to develop aerobically or neuromuscularly in better ways. See “base training” in the Run Elite book, or various base training videos I have in this channel
One of the best things I’ve done for myself as a runner is have an expert analyze my data and provide accurate HR zones. I had my zone 2 way too low- if I didn’t have that info I would feel very defeated by this advice! But you’re right-my easy runs naturally fall in a high zone 1 and low zone 2. Thanks for sharing -
How did you analyse your zones out of interest? I like to base zones on maxHR, but know there're many ways of determining them.
I went to a lactate/vo2 test 1,5 years ago, and got zones definition in a 5 zone heartratemodel . Zone 2 was set very high because of high lactate-treshold (126-146bpm when max heartrate was 178) To hold high zone 2 is hard, so when going for hours low and medium zone 2 and zone 1 is ok. On such rides I try to limit the steepest climbingpace to below 146, believing that will prevent to much lactate, but I will slow down to an easier pace when it gets possible (on top of the climb).
Really fascinating and well edited bro! I love the deeper analysis and the overall review.
Much appreciated Jay!
Thanks for looking at meta-analyzis and thanks for giving us zone 1. I always thought zone 1 is underestimated and forgotten in the zone 2 hype. When I do a 2,5 or 3 hour ride I usually dilute the zone 2 with a lot zone 1. I am no runner, but a middleaged biker struggling with weightissues, and truly believe in going all over the zones and my goal is consistence, averaging 7 hours a week and averaging 356 hour each year. I usually put easy days, rest or strenght between the fast days.
Previous week I had an interesting ride, going in zone 1 for more than three hours (drifting to zone 2 because of fatigue in the fourth and fifth hour), but climbing 1690 meters. This easy on the heart ride was very heavy on the legs keeping constant high torque. I got really tired, but an interesting effect was that the next day I was able to ride 30 minutes at 111% treshold speed. Fastest ride in 2025.
You’re welcome. Check out my video on no junk miles. You’ll like this one ruclips.net/video/gZ9dY65mnG0/видео.htmlsi=nu987cjArZ2NBX5y
@ True. I like it. I think the only junkmiles are them that causes injury or too much burnout. About walking. I have read 3x gold by Gjermund Eggen. In 1966 he won 3 world champion gold in cross country skiing. He wrote that the only training in a couple summer months was walking in the mountains looking after his sheeps. Myself I prioritize fun, and fun supports consistency. I also like the idea of doing different sports in order to get variation on the load on different muscles and joints. Orientering , running in the forest is nice.
@@erlendsteren9466I like your training philosophy
Interesting stuff thanks for the breakdown of the study. Just had to take a 6wk break due to knee pain which turns out to be arthritis. Struggling to work out how to structure my week with only the 3 runs my body will tolerate. Signed up for my first marathon in October just before my knee flared up.
Regarding running in Zone 1/ Zone 2, evoke endurance puts the top of zone 2 (LT1) in relationship to the top of zone 3 (LT 2). As prescribed by them, if the difference in heart rate is
@christiankennedy9417 Can you give and example of the
Someone read the uphill athlete 😅
@ Well, at the beginning of my training last year, the top of my zone 2/ LT1 was at ca. 158, top of zone 3/ LT2 at 183.
That is like a 13,7% difference.
Next time I tested my zone 2 a few weeks later, it was at ca. 170. And yes, that thing isn't fixed. For under-trained people it will go up to a point.
That's a difference of just 7%, hence I started doing more zone 1 and reduced zone 2. I think my speed in zone 1 at this point was also faster than my speed at the start in zone 2. So I had no problem with doing it at all.
@@christiankennedy9417 Thanks for the explanation. I did the math on mine and I am at 8.9% so I guess that means I could do more zone 1 than zone 2. I did feel like my zone 2 was getting fast and while it was easy aerobically, my muscular system was struggling a bit especially if I did hilly runs. Now that I am 7 weeks out from the marathon, the workouts are plenty of stimulus, so zone 1 sounds awesome.
Spot on!! Can’t compare zones of elite with normal runners unless you are in sub 3.5 hrs group. When I can run sub 4 hrs marathon in zone 2, I will start running my easy miles on zone 1.
Thank you, Coach Andrew. So well explained! I know those little edits like the running baby, "super power" graphic, and the old guy punching the bag take time, but they sure make the videos fun to watch. 🤩 We notice!
Haha. Thanks. Yeah I focus mostly on the content but a little entertainment value is useful too. Glad you enjoy
Thank you for the content. I’ll finish watching after work today. 🙏🏃♂️🏃♀️💪
Virtual RUclips Andrew will be here waiting. :)
Best video so far!
Glad you think so!
Another banger Andrew!
Thank you
Great video again
I have only been running for a year and just started adding weight training a couple weeks ago so dropped my running intensity and distance back to not burn out.
I now gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday
Zone 1 walk Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.
Running is Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday all easy zone 2 with a little bit of harder mixed in on Thursday. It is good to know the zone one stuff still counts as Garmin calls it a recovery and it kind of is
Nice work!
Lovely video!
liked and subscribed
Welcome Aboard Stefano!
I subscribed. Doctor’s orders!
Dr Hill said thank you and he’ll see you in the upcoming video on training volume
Thank you coach!
Welcome ej!
Great video very informative!
Thank you!
I sleep in zone 1. Can't run in that pace even if I tried.
Ok
Would walking in the lower zones be beneficial? Assuming one is too unfit to run in those zones. Or would running in zone 3 until you get fit enough be better? @@runelitecoach
Get good
@@TheSlothofDOOMrun in 3-4 zones until you get fit enough. Its natural. You get injured and then lower the intensity, thats how everyone learn 😂
@runelitecoach which zone system are you using? It seems this study utilizes 7 zones (see page 9) and zone 1 ends at 72% of MaxHR. In a Garmin model or similar 5-zone models that would be around upper end zone 2 lower zone 3. maybe this might be important to stress the difference
Awesome video!
Thank you
Great video
Thank you Dave. The next video is an extension of this one, on training volume
you should do a video covering the Japanese marathon type training with tons (250km+ per week) and some threshold and almost no vo2 max work
There’s good book “The Way of the Runner: A Journey Into the Fabled World of Japanese Running”
Cool stuff thanks for the idea. I don’t subscribe to doing any vo2max work in general. There’s a section in my book on why , I also have a few videos on why.
What is Zone 1, as in how is it calculated?
Also, does the research say why Zone 1 is so beneficial or is it simply because a runner can cope with higher volumes?
Does the warmup, cooldown, recovery intervals count towards the workout miles or the easy miles? I.e Does 12 x 400m count as 3 miles? Or does it count as let’s say 6 after I consider my warmup, cooldown, recovery intervals?
That’s such a nice question 😊
Warm up and cool down count towards your mileage but not the workout.
Should half marathon distance runners be training a higher ratio of zone 2 since the smaller distance balances out the recovery time?
It would be helpful if everyone could agree on what the different zones are. I have been doing this for years and read dozens of books (including yours) and I have yet to figure it out. Percentage of heart rate? OK, requires I actually know my max, which is p@ossible only in a lab. Otherwise I have to follow various crude ways (including Garmin etc, for which I could drink a quart of whisky and guess more accurately in my experience.) You mentioned that Zone three for this training would be about a 10k or half marathon pace, if I heard correctly. As most run both at a much faster pace than we do marathons, how would that be possible. I have more faith on the old, supposedly obsolete talk test for easy runs.
Look up Scott Johnstens work on zone 2.
That really helped me.
It’s kind of arbitrary. That’s why I defined them for you here in what was used in the paper
I’m currently reading your book. My son is ten and loves racing fun runs and now wants to run xc once he is in middle school and high school. What I’ve taken from the book that I like so far is build a good base along with using striders and some hills for the fast twitch fibers and adding in some longer interval workouts that are near his race pace. Anything you would add?
I’m curious what this means for training on a macroscopic scale(over a lifetime). You often hear that it’s best to develop speed through track races when you’re younger before eventually moving on to longer distances like the half marathon and marathon. I think this video may provide some deeper insight into that.
For track, more coaches and pros are leaning towards lactate threshold(LT1, LT2, or both/day), some doing almost no race pace intervals, just some sprints/strides. Bowerman,NAU, Colorado. I’m assuming because of the Norwegians. But there’s still a lot of success with interval training at race pace or faster. Is this a case of all roads lead to Rome? I think it would make an interesting video topic…intervals versus lactate threshold for track. (I found no videos on this comparing the two).
There’s a lot of research on this. Short answer is that double threshold runs are only for super well trained elite runners. It’s silly to do it for virtually all runners in most cases. Better to do a single threshold run and then another workout on the other side of race pace (so if threshold is faster than your race pace for whatever distance you’d do an endurance workout next. If it’s slower, like for a miler, you’d do a speed session next). Ok start of a video outline right there!
It’s a good idea for a video thanks. I may film this next week
@ yes thanks, I just use double threshold as an example of pros. What I really want is a head-to-head comparison between single threshold(LT1 OR LT2) and intervals, let’s say 1/week. That would make for an informative and possibly controversial video.
When I sleep, my heart rate is 38-39 beats per minute. 😂
Sweet! Good resting heart rate Houston
What do you mean 8 by 8 hill sprints???
Here you go 8 Second Hill Sprints | The Missing Link in Your Training
ruclips.net/video/t62tRpLCBaA/видео.html
Where is the paper from J Ingebrigtsen et al?
You can ask him to become a researcher and give up professional running. I reckon he won’t though
@runelitecoach He and his fam are actually leading researchers ;)
❤
Yeah, I find it hard to run in Zone 1, maybe this doesnt work for slower runners? I do my regular 5 milers at M pace, 7:30/mile, which is an entire minute off my 6:30/mile 5k. Any slower and it feels real slow. Is this typical for us non-elite paced runners?
I would be inclined to agree Z1 can be way to slow. The slower you are the narrower your pace 'chart' is. So for more Elite runners it is easier to run Z1 because it's still faster pace than most of us can do.
It's not just that it dosn't work for slow runners. It is not needed, and would be detrimental to you training!
Runners with good enough fitness have to do all that zone 1, because zone 2 stops being easy.
As you get faster, there is an increased stress on your legs. And that impacts recovery.
Better runners do zone 1 in order to keep doing high volume of easy running.
But zone 2 is still better in terms of improving your fitness.
It is the better stimulus, so as long as it is still easy and you can recover from doing it a lot, you do zone 2.
Once that's no longer the case, your hart rate at zone 1/2 will have gone up and you will be faster in them as well.
I ran 7:30 for regular runs when my PR was 16:36.
It’s interesting. We don’t find it difficult to walk. But we find it difficult to run slow? I hear you though, it is somewhat hard…when you’re fresh. But that’s the point. Rack up a higher mileage and it’s not so easy anymore to run slow. Jump in on a 100 mile race and slow will feel hard. So it just takes discipline to stay out longER and keep it slowER so you don’t get injured. But you can get the burn by simply adding strides and hill sprints. Hence base training
This is nice, but most of us are not elite runners. I often find it hard to translate these results to everyday people who need to balance work, family, and some running.
Well, I chunk this down for you in the video. Recommending periodization, percentages to do in various zones, focus on 1 and 2 not just 2. Etc.
So my zone 1 max is 110. I would like too see a runners workout to believe it’s possible.
What do you want to see?…. “A runners workout”? Ok just go to the paper and click on the hundreds of runners trainings in the right
Not sure about everyone but zone 2 is definitely not my marathon pace. My marathon pace is between zone 3 and 4 by almost all 5 zone methods.
I think you're saying the same thing almost everyone else is saying but with a different definition of zones.
I’m not saying anything, I’m reporting on the Meta analysis. Very little of this is my opinion. It’s me summarizing a giant research paper for you.
@@runelitecoach And I'm not saying it's your opinion. I'm saying that even this paper says that Marathon pace is zone 3 in their 7-zone scale "The diference between half-marathon and marathon speed is very small on an absolute scale among world-class long-distance runners. Hence, half-marathon pace represents the upper part of zone 3, while marathon pace represents the lower part of the same zone." (table 3, note c), but you mention zone 2 as endurance/marathon.
"The most consistent training intensity characteristic of elite distance runners is that most of the running distance (≥80%) is performed at low intensity throughout the training year (corresponding to zone 1 and 2 in our 7-zone scale), in line with previous research. Most of this training is in turn executed in zone 1, and the duration of the easy runs is very stable throughout the training year. Because zone 2 is closer to marathon pace, a higher proportion of zone 2 is applied by marathon specialists, particularly during the specifc preparation period"
But you seem to ignore the second half of this, saying "Zone one, zone one, zone one zone one baby. If you push it even into zone two, your volume is going to suffer, so don't don't do it. Zone one. that's what Elites are doing."
Again, I think it just comes down to how you're defining zones which, as the paper says, has no consensus. But in their own 7-zone table, they list competition pace for Long Distance Runners as Zone 3
why is it that when I watch these elite runners on youtube doing their "week of training" all their runs seem pretty damn high intensity and their easy run sure don't seem to be in zone 1.
Because it makes for more entertaining videos than watching them run slow and stop and pee. But that’s what we do…
Also, Zone1 and 2 can be easily under 4 minutes per km for an elite runner, so it still looks pretty fast.
Seriously, I'm always confused with all these things, and that is because I train just six days a week and just one session everyday. I do three easy runs and three intense runs, and I have been running for six years with a 34minutes 10km pb. My intense workouts are always threshold of up to 15km splitting it to 3km by 5 and also a vo2 training of 8 to 9km and long runs of 25km and also the other weeks 8secs hill sprints and 200m and 400m by 20. After calculating all these, my easy runs are always just 50 to 40 percents of my training, and Seriously the last two years has been my most consistent years as I improved alot within these two years from 39minutes to 34minutes, and I train like this year round without injury or crazy fatigue, I don't even see those training has big deal because it has been a lifestyle training at that intensity as a fun runner, I don't even takes more than 2 weeks off training in a year.
Next video is on training volume. Stay tuned as it answers some of your questions here.
Who cares about zones. I just run. Lots of easy and some fast running. For elites, Zone 1 is Zone 1. For amateurs, Zone 1 is Zone 2. HAHA. Common sense: if you run too hard too many days, you will not recover as fast. I don't get caught up in Zone training. Overtime, these zones need to be adjusted anyway as you get fitter. I do a lactate threshold HR instead. I take the highest HR last 20 minutes of my most recent 10k race to determine my zones. I do this yearly.
Cool man. Just run then. This video was on “new research” so it’s intended for people who want to learn about that. And for someone who claims not to care about zones you put a lot of effort in to calculating your LT.
Meta studies are generally regarded as highly biased because the people doing them tend to cherry pick the studies they cite that fit their preconceptions
That’s not remotely true. A literature review can be that way, but a meta analysis must include all available papers that fit the parameters set. I think you got those 2 mixed up
Additionally for a meta analysis, if the researcher chooses to not include a paper that would fit, they write about why, so you can then add it in if you would like and do your own calcs
Meta analysis is arguably the highest quality paper that can be written if done well. This one looked at mostly the actual training plans of elite runners. So yeah…cherry picking elite runners is a good idea. You name the runner, they’re part of the research group. This paper was pretty high quality. And there’s nothing for sale and no conflict of interest.
Andyk for the win! 🏆 gold cup to you sir
Holy fk, Zone1? 😆😂🤣🤦♂️ Most of my "easy miles" are in Zone 2, occasionally approaching Zone 3. But I suspect Garmin has my zones way off. Apple seems to automatically calculate my zones better.
It depends on how you let your watch determine your zones.
You can't just buy a watch and expext it to give accurate estimates without proper testing.
Garmin has a specific test function to get you in the ballpark. You do need a chest strap.
Zone 1 in This study was 60-72% of Max heart rate
@Bols85 I can't even actually run at that HR (and equivalent pace) that would be a really awkward mechanical chaos.
The watches can't determine your zones.
These are highly individual.
You have to do some actual good testing.
Lactate, or do a heart rate drift test.
And then, re-test after a few weeks!
Your zones aren't fixed, they respond to training.
With enough good training, the heart rate of your zone 2 will go up (to a point).