Design, for some reason, is seen by the majority, as secondary to detail. My heirarchy is: Emotion, Design and Detail. And theres’s a finer line between between the first two as they serve one another. This was an excellent lesson. Thank you!
Yes this is why I love the tonalists and the impressionists. Focus on emotive “detail” and create the illusion of detail wherever the viewer is directed away from in order to dwell on the true subject matter.
If I never see another TouTube video that starts with someone yelling at me "HEY GUYS WELCOME TO MY VIDEO!" then continues to harangue me for what seems forever, it will be too soon. They get switched off immediately. This video is the complete opposite, Mr Roberts gets his message across quietly and measuredly; Bravo, I wish there more like you.
Not everyone is a teacher and not everyone knows how to present and market themselves. Doesn’t mean that all their content is crap )).. try to be patient
Same here. I've gotten to the point where, even if it's subject matter I'm really interested in, if they have a slick video with theme music I have to endure first, I'm gone. I can't take "me me me." I just discovered Ian Roberts and I'll be here a lot.
They do that because of a RUclips lesson that teaches creators that you have to be loud and command the attention of the audience immediately. I hate it too.
It's really interesting how this composition rule can be used and applied for other mediums. Comics, for example, understand this rule and actively break it, using it to their advantage, guiding the reader along through the panels.
Are they actually breaking it though? Sure, each panel may break it, but the whole strip or book is the “canvas” artwork.. so they do not break it because this rule is to keep a viewer engaged within the artwork piece, comics just have a multi-frame piece. The goal of this rule is to guide the viewer thru the piece and keep them engaged within it… no matter the scope or medium… single frame or multiple frames… I would challenge you to actually analyze HOW the comics “break” the rule in single frame and you will see how they are guiding you from one frame to another and then on the the next page… it isn’t a broken rule… it’s just expanded in scope….
This guy is excellent. I have watched a few other videos on composition but I an is the first person who really speaks to me about art in a way I can really understand and get with.
This should be titled, the #1 Composition Rule That Is Hard to Break Effectively. The two works that he shows are in a book, so they create a movement that suggests the viewer to turn the page. Which keeps the viewer engaged with the book. Translating that in to a gallery show may be helpful if you want the works to be telling some kind of story. If it is a singular piece it would be more difficult, but if you break that you can also potentially bring the viewer back in other ways. It is more difficult to walk past a large work that does this, so it may not be as successful in digital format.
Yes. Summed up, it is a tool, and one that you need to know when you are using and do so with intention. If it’s used unintentionally, you will have unintentional results.
It's still not pulling you out of the art though. It's pulling you away from that one page, but the entire book is the "plane" in this case, so the composition is set up to navigate you through this piece of art in the way the artist intended. I have seen this style of composition in galleries too, where the artist wanted to tell a story through pictures and had a very specific way of setting the paintings up, one leading to the next, leading to the next. Though each painting was of a different subject, at a different location, they sort of "pointed" to each other through the composition. The gallery guests were not given a single arrow or a single word of how to navigate this story, yet almost everyone walked an unmarked path as the artist had planned. That is why this rule is so important. It will affect you, even if you know zero about art. And it will affect you, even if you already know it is there.
As a person with no artistic background getting my own animated work going, I find videos like this to be really informative and helpful since I find I have to create a ton of background artwork to go with my animations. Something I never thought much about until I had to do it. I'm crap at it but I like to think I can get better over time.
I'm always amazed in recent animated films how good the backgrounds are. And how astonishingly good the effects are now with water and so on. It is a little like looking at a painting and admiring how lifelike it is. Which is one arena to look at. The other is how visually original it is. Which is a different arena.
You all prolly dont care but does anyone know a method to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid lost my login password. I would love any tips you can give me!
@Fox Chaim I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out now. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
I've been showing my students the importance of Figure/Ground as "Number One Rule", but I like your more sophisticated explanation; especially the potential movement off the picture plane. There's always more to learn, Thanks.
This was, honestly, one of the first rules I was taught as an art major, and the one which has stuck with me. I always appreciate a reminder, so thank you!
Agree with you 100%. Just perfect. I always tell my students, "no matter what you paint, your only job is to make the eyes of your viewer STAY in your painting." =One Love= -A
Mr. Robert’s….I have followed your teachings for years…..you are no doubt the best at conveying your teachings so well. Some people are good teachers but not great artist…..some are great artist but not good teachers……you are both! Thank you for taking the time out of your studio to share and teach us.
I hate how whatever spot of the painting I was looking in he immediately drew red circle around, and that's when I realized how absolutely correct he was
But i preferred the ones where the composition sent you out of the frame. I liked how it suggested something bigger. I once wrote a children’s book called “What’s Around the Corner?” that was created to make the reader curious about what might be on the next page. It forced the artist to compose pictures leading the eye to the right out of frame. Worked well and sold well and was even translated.
yeah, it is super useful but when this is purposeful. often it can be dertimental to holding someone's attention. but def very good for things like this picturebook example or comics where you wish for the reader to jump from panel to panel fast, to give the scene portrayed great momentum, anticipation, curiosity or anxiety.
It's like the rule in writing saying that you should describe what something is, not what something isn't, and then Douglas Adams comes along and describes spaceships as "hanging in the air in the same way that bricks don't": On the face of it, it breaks that rule, looking a bit deeper, it doesn't, because it describes the spaceships as appearing irreal, unbelievable, in a visceral way that just would not be possible without employing a negative, sending the reader "out of the reality frame". Which is exactly what was intended, and what you intended with those illustrations. So maybe a better design rule would be "make it do what you want", but then people are completely lost. "Break the rule only once you understand its purpose" seems to be a better didactic approach: Rules are a list of things to pay attention to, nothing more, nothing less.
I think with your book perhaps you arent breaking the true rule here. I think the concept really is that you have to create a piece that leads attention where you want it to be. In 99% of cases, that means you want attention to be on your painting. In your case, you intentionally wanted to lead elsewhere, accomplished that, and the fact that it worked means you were successful.
Honestly, what I saw here is the difference between a composition directed towards dynamism and another directed towards balance. I guess as a painter one might like a balanced one better, but as an ilustrator/graphic designer/storyteller both are equally useful.
Interesting. In many of the examples that you gave, my eye was drawn in the opposite direction that you indicated. In the picture book, my eye went back to the men, or to the trees and the horizon line. Even in your modified, darkened version of the picture of the house with the fence, the contrasting paleness of the other fences, not just their distance from us as viewers, made them more interesting to me. In the still life with fruit, I noticed the cutting board on the left. In all cases it was a draw to wish to examine what might be happening further away from the viewer, out of our reach. I would say that this is a good analysis, but that not all eyes will take these scenes in the same way.
Yes. I looked at the men, too. For several reasons the eye (ie my eye) is attracted to that image rather than the strong pathway out of the picture, which to me gives a huge sensation of motion, but it doesn’t take me with it. For this principle to be “the one unbreakable rule” is a bit heavy, I think; certainly it’s an excellent guideline for traditional art, but I think following all the guidelines can easily result in rather dull pictures, and we are so saturated with images these days that an artist who wants to grab the attention almost needs to break a few guidelines.
Very interesting. The 3:22 example was by far my favorite piece out of all of them. To me, that really flows. And ironically, THAT is what keeps me in the painting. I actively try to create a visual path both into the art, flowing through, and then out. But I definitely will digest what you just said.
I've been a painter all my life; first an illustrator for almost 30 years, and now I paint for several galleries. As I look at the paintings shown here, I wonder at what point in my painting life I no longer labored over composition, if I ever did. I have two large paintings going out to a client today, and as I watched this video, I sat here looking over at an Italian street scene on my wall. The client wanted more people, plants and "stuff" going on, and as I added all this, I realized that I could include elements almost endlessly, and the strength of the composition wouldn't change. I very much enjoyed this video for addressing composition in a way that's too often overlooked by artists.
When I went back to art school as a mature student , I re-studied things I had paid scant attention to the first time around . In particular the ' private vs public ' work .Botticelli's Birth of Venus and Primavera , were both commissioned works for the same client , both had content input from a veritable committee and neither was originally intended for mass viewing . Primavera suffers a little from having so much stuffed into it , whereas Venus is a gorgeous composition that says as much with a lot less . As you observe , a strong composition can handle detail upon detail without becoming cluttered .
@@weehudyy Back in the days of Botticelli and for a long time after, all artworks were commissions, both public and private. I've done many commissions, and the process is still the same. The client has an idea they want you to bring to reality. To do that successfully, the artist has to live in the client's head. This is why so many artists decline commissions. I regard my galleries as "clients". Much of our creative discussions are about content and direction as it's your gallery's job to keep you informed to how your work is received. This is how they cultivate a following of buyers for your work. And true, a painting with a solid design can hold almost infinite details, but my experience is that, however tempting, the painting will tell you when to stop. Kudos to you for going back to school!
Just started my masters in illustration and this has been great supplemental material! I can see that those paintings that break your rule are doing so with purpose, since the intent is to lead the reader into turning the page, vs a single painting whose purpose is to interest the viewer for as long as possible. I still struggle with composition so I'm very excited to have discovered your videos. ^^ Thank you so much for uploading them for free.
I found this extremely helpful. Gives me a better understanding of why I personally like certain pieces. I’ve always been drawn to works that make me want to climb in and explore the scene deeper into the painting and now I can see how each artist has manipulated the composition to achieve that feel. Thank you
This short lesson was extremely helpful for a self taught artist like myself. I've been painting birds in in watercolor and am ready to explore landscape painting in the same medium. I'm looking forward to receiving your weekly email. Thank you for sharing! Simone
(The husband, Harry Gray) Excellent timing for me to fall upon this video. Love the book illustration to increase the desire to turn the page. But for me I have been working with a painting that was based on a plein air study that I drew several times and kept building the composition with a few directional clues. For whatever reason I never fully completed the very bottom and to my amazement I am there to complete it.... but I am stumped as I had not solved the bottom. I then realized all attempts WERE sending the eye off the page. A simple solution... Keep it simple. Which was the second video I watched of yours. So in combination of the #1 rule and simplifying I think in the morning I just might have the solution. Thank you and I look forward to checking out more of your info. Blessings to all!
You are so right about the lack of rules, lack of skill, skill even to be shunned or laughed at, l see a big resurgence and appreciation of skill and warmth, in the light of a new dawn.
this is simply brilliant! and this video got recommended to me exactly at the time when i'd been struggling with an illustration due to not knowing of this! Now I know which part to emphasise and how, ah! safed me so much trial and error and agonising over this decision. also, I very very much appreciate how many examples you'd given! and that the changes you did had been quite subtle actually, yet having a profound effect on how the piece affects the viewer. i think showing this in this subtle manner conveys how crucial it is way better than drastic changes. this is kind of rare among art tutorials online actually, so i appreciate you doing so a lot.
Happened to be looking for interesting videos that will help me progress in my newly found art journey, and luckily came across this! Art classes in High School in the 70's and now back into art, missing it all these years while life got in the way. Love how you teach, and getting back to basics to hopefully make my work better. Signed up for weekly videos and look forward to going back and viewing all previous ones! Thanks so much!
This is by far the most informative 8+ minutes I’ve had on RUclips in a while. Wait actually more like 24+ minutes bc i watched it 3 times. I just can’t stop watching it. Thank you, 🙏🏼 Thank you.
Thank you! This was extremely helpful. As a new artist, and self-taught, perspective is my next step in learning. But you also gave me this new great tip of engaging the viewer and how to be objective about the painting.
Your transition at seamless. Each time you make your point, the fade in of the contrast subtly guides the viewer. Leading our eyes to the answer just before you even state the claim. Truly eloquent! Great video.
Eloquent is indeed the most appropriate word! And finally someone who REALLY demonstrated the BIG difference a SLIGHT detail, like an increased color intensity, can make.
I wish I could share this painting I just saw with you. I would not have known why it drew me in so much if I hadn’t seen this video. My eyes couldn’t escape this painting, and now I know why!
This is brilliant. Subscribed. I wasn't allowed to take art classes in college because they were only for art majors. I feel like this channel might be my "university art class" that I never got to take. Thank you!!!
I used to ask my kids _ "What do you see when you look". You have given me a new 'perspective' on conscious seeing and creation and the 'why' of interest. Tonal centered perspective and lead lines even though they may be unintentional visual erratics.
Your videos are excellent. There's a lot to learn, and the alternative is to proceed by trial and error which can be difficult. Over the years as I've observed the world around me, I've learned to look at the world (depending on the subject) as if I were going to take a photograph of it. A couple of my own 'rules': "Not every 'good idea' will necessarily make a good painting." and "If you don't know how to proceed, then don't."
Visual perception is one of my favorite subjects when it comes to design. Great video! I would totally recommend to anyone to read about how the human eyes interprets what it sees (shapes, patterns, lines etc) , and why, to get a deeper understanding of the visual hierarchy. It's super interesting :)
I found this so helpful! I just began painting this spring and have much to learn, but you've just explained what I did wrong in my last painting, why it feels unbalanced.
Bravo ! This advice is pure gold. I no longer have the patience to draw, and have for many years taken the route of amateur photography. All that is said here applies equally to photography. Many thanks for the insight Sir.
I am a decent photographer but have struggled a lot with drawing and painting. Your insights are so very helpful. I have renewed hope and motivation due to your guidance.
It is a great treasure that this videos suddenly appeared to me, it is the first time I have seen them and I am delighted with how wonderful you explains, providing us with very clear examples. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Well you are a breath of fresh air as they say. Your presentation is good, like very easy to listen to and your words seem to go right in to the right channel in my art department brain. Bob
I think that people underestimate how critical it is for an artist to draw the viewers eye and mind into the piece and hold them for as long as possible. Many denigrate Jackson Pollack as childish and lacking any real focal point or perspective but after seeing one in person at MOMA, you could spend a long time following the lines, taking a very personal journey around the canvas. It is that personal journey that keeps you engaged and fixated on the working subsequently end up with a feeling of connection to something utterly abstract.
Pollack, I read, was a CIA paid "artist" to deliberately mis-create "art." This was intentional with other similar artists. TPTB purposely chose to "hire" so-called "artists" to paint and sculpt, creating "modern art" to confuse the viewer.
I've started reading and viewing about art to try and add greater meaning to my photography and found this an interesting and well presented tutorial. Thank you.
This is so cool. I found the examples of breaking the rule in the children's book absolutely fascinating though and now I want to play around with breaking this rule on purpose! I love art it's so interesting.
Thank you! Great reminder on a key point of emphasis. I especially like the helpful tip at the end about using a mirror and or turning the image upside down. Forgot about those tips. Thanks!
Thank you, Ian. This was very informative. I think the more we become of aware of these sometimes subtle changes, the more control we will have to keep the viewer engaged. Most of us probably would not have been aware if you had not shown us. Thank you again.
VERY helpful. I'd never thought about Rule #1. I'm hurrying back to my easel as soon as I'm done with this comment. I want to apply this to my work. Thanks again
Glad you liked it Sophronia. I'm not sure I meant you want the eye looking at the center. But just not getting pulled out beyond the edge of the painting. Best wishes.
Thanks for the lesson. One thing is a struggle for me however; my eye never follows the path a teacher points out in a painting. Like the painting with geese. I go from main subjects of: geese to child to next geese & next along the open path in the grass, in a circular direction, upward. So, in sum, I just follow the main primary objects, not surrounding scenery, & after these, I next see a very clear cut path in the scenery, created by the strong values, that sweep my eye up & around to the right. I do not at all ignore all the main objects & just follow the scenery as pointed out in the video, & don't believe most people would. This causes my to struggle with instruction telling me exactly how to direct the eye, from a teacher, when I never see the same way the teacher is saying you will see & thus lead the eye.
I feel like artist learn to "read" paintings in a way a normal person would not. That's good if you want to appreciate deeper intentionality and craftsmanship in paintings but actually interpreting those pathways as the way a random viewer looks at your painting is a little far fetched I think. The same way a trained musician can appreciate the depth of a classical composition and recognize it as supperior while a normal person will prefer trap music.
You are sharp to pick up on that. When I think of a compositional structure I think of the underlying lines that integrate that structure with the picture plane (the lines of direction). The lines of force are how you activate that with values masses, gradations and so one to pull the eye around the painting.
Yes this. My painting mentor who got me into drawing and painting and color theory, the whole art curriculum, told me this rule first. I remember it because it’s basically the only advice she called a “rule” other than the rule of thirds which operates more like principal in many but not all compositions than an actual rule. The rest of artmaking is highly experimental and free from rules. That’s the fun of it. Where you can discover many things the more art you make.
Eye of the beholder... As artists art should be what we love to create. As the viewer, what we love to view. If others share that love, great. If not, that's okay too.
Points well taken. However, aside from the purposeful movement out of the field of view that might represent functional necessity, representational painting could include a highly conceptual impact that deliberately challenges the viewer by making the subject impactful, yet leading them out of the field of view. The deliberateness need not be immediately functional outside of the concept. Neue Sachlichkeit paintings ARE representational, but feature distortions and impacts that challenge the sensibilities of the viewer, and they sometimes flow right out of the field of view. Again, your points are well-taken for most conventional representational paintings, but the composition could be meant to draw attention by confounding the flow and purpose of the imagery in ways that lead the viewer to question why the artist has made such a choice. I think the key is the deliberateness of the flow. Sometimes, an artist can vary such impacts ever so slightly and the audience will spend time on the painting simply trying to understand why the images appear odd to them. For many audiences, that is as much of a draw as a smooth flowing piece. I just wanted to introduce the concept of intentionality into the mix so that some might understand that there could be a large array of reasons why an artist might want to deliberately break this rule. However, you did an insanely good job of making a complex subject easily understandable. Thanks so much for your video!
as a complete noob to the world of painting 'art', Thank you for this explanation and for keeping it simple. now, thinking back on some of my paintings, I think I may understand some of what was off about them and why others were engaging.
I’m a musician by trade, and that is a great description! In my field we’re trying to make air molecules compress and expand… for the purpose of altering the listener’s mood.
Was perspective invented or discovered? I think many viewers find the breaking of conventional composition more exciting. As it feels new, fresh, different. It is like jazz. Learn the rules, work with them, but always have a mind to escape them, as new exciting art is the process of breaking away from convention.
- Very interesting & informative. > However, I must point out that at several points in your presentation, your voice was so Soothing & had such a callming effect on me that I wouldl love to have a ½ hour audio tape of it to finally put my insomnia problem to rest 😏 💤💤💤 😴 🛌 👌
I've been painting in oils for 58 years. You will become a better artist with age. Yes, study, learn, try things. But life is a teacher. When I was 35 years old I became interested in classical guitar, and I became an excellent guitarist. An understanding of music benefited my painting. More recently I began to just play with paint. It was nice to have no idea, not struggle, just have fun with color. Thing is, I honestly believe the fooling around paintings are some of my best. The best thing you have is the need to create. Some people lack that entirely. My creative nature is strong. And I have a healthy ego. Pride is a tool. Pride in accomplishment. I can't even cook a pancake lunch for friends without announcing 'These will be the best pancakes in the universe'. Be realistic though. If the pancakes or paintings are terrible recognize it. Ego is a tool, but you control it. My drawing teacher, the great Robert Beverly Hale said, 'Recognize your limitations, otherwise you'll go crazy'. We aren't all Leonardo's. A joke I say is, 'I don't think outside the box. But the box I think in is really big'. I don't paint from photographs. I don't think it is good to. I can see using photographs, but don't copy them. That is something in me. I used a photo once with great success. But I set the still life up, did preliminary sketches, used the photo for reference, and kept the still life set up to refer to for the duration of working on the painting. I did it to show I could do it. You will see in a lot of RUclips videos a lot of artists copy photos. You won't see the photo, but you won't see the landscape they are painting either, They are in their studio copying a landscape photo. A landscape isn't only a visual experience. There is breeze making everything sway, birds chirping, insects biting you, wild animals happening by, smells, sounds, allergies. You are immersed in it. Studying figure drawing will make you a better landscape painter. Make you a better artist no matter the medium or subject. It is tried and true. And try to study with the best teacher you can. And get good books. All books will have something to teach, but for sure some books are better than others. The best book on painting I know of is 'Painting Techniques of the Great Masters' by Lester Cooke. I can not recommend this book enough. Lots of pictures of paintings with in-depth analysis. Professor Hale said that if you want to see how to do something look at how the great masters did it. I also highly recommend 'The Natural Way to Draw' by Kimon Nicolaides. One look at the book and you will see why. It isn't a difficult book requiring heavy lifting, like a book on perspective. A good book for inspiration is 'The Art Spirit' by Robert Henri. It will make you want tp paint. And visit art museums. Put on magnifying glasses and get so close to the painting you get yelled at by a guard. I got yelled at, but it was worth it. I had my nose in a Renoir, a painting of young women, and the girl with blonde hair, her hair was painted with every color in the spectrum but read as blonde. It was amazing. Another time I sat on the bench in front Jackson Pollock's painting 'Autumn Rhythm'. I wanted to know why it was considered such a great work of art. I first spent some time trying to find the exact center of the painting. I settled on an oval blob the size of a quarter as where the diagonals crossed, the exact center. I stared at the center for fifteen minutes, eyes going in and out of focus. The painting came alive. The long drips and splats became branches and leaves, like laying on my back in the woods, and they moved and swayed like affected by a breeze. Thank God I wasn't on acid, or it could have turned into 'The Day of the Triffids', an old horror movie with walking killer trees. It's one thing to be yelled at by museum guards, it's another to have to be tackled by them. Haha. Part of the way I've stayed connected in the arts is having an art related job. At present I'm a silversmith in NYC involved in the restoration of metal art and art objects. I've repaired Picasso and Dali sculptures. It is an interesting job. I worked on a sculpture by the modern artist Matthew Barney, met him, talked to him, got his phone number. I also worked with Leroy Nieman. He was a very nice man. I haven't sold many paintings. You might know already it is difficult to make a living as a painter. Or maybe you do sell, I don't know. I'm not a salesman. I couldn't sell dogfood to a dog. I couldn't sell crack to a crackhead. I never got into one of those galleries that can 'make an artist'. And I've been right there, living in NYC, in a position many would die for. It might be my personality. Something about me caused the professional art dealers to not be interested in selling my art. Or my style isn't in fashion. I don't know. But I am a perfectionist, learn fast, and was hired to assist artists, mostly metal sculptors because metal art requires muscle to make it happen. Think, as a painter, do you need any assistants? Someday if you make it big a business might build around you, like Peter Max or Leroy Nieman. Have an agent, have a whole loft full of craftsman dedicated to reproducing your images and delivering and selling them. But that is rare. I like to chat. You see I'm talkative. I'll chat any time you like. Find me here. I'm going to copy this comment and put it in your channels correspondence site. From there I can lead you to see my paintings online. It's an excellent online gallery you should know about anyway. Just keep at it, you will improve. Please yourself. Hope I've been of assistance. Good luck to you.
Hey, thanks, Nelson. you seem very confident...I would like to see your work. I love to see other people’s work. I’ve “sold” and done commissions, but I do not “sell” ...I just want to be competent. I struggle with every project. I’m getting better but I strive for a much higher level. I’ve worked so hard to become “mediocre “ I don’t care if I’m rich and famous ; I just want to be very technically accomplished.
@@kenp1013 Hey Ken, you got back to me! I subscribed to Ian here, he's good. RUclips is great for learning. I wish it existed when I was young. I had to come over here to check because RUclips didn't notify me. Maybe they don't like people using it like a chatroom. I once wrote the whole first draft of a 150,000 word novel during a year long chat on RUclips. Like I said, I like to talk. Which might be a good thing for you, provided I have information you're looking for. 'I sound confident'. That is good, I guess. I have a lot of experience, good education, and have been at it a while. I think my work has merit. Or why do it, right? When someone sees my art work, in general the person will be very excited and interested in at least one painting of mine. That makes it worth it. You want to become technically proficient. Get that book called 'Painting Techniques of the Great Masters' by Lester Cooke. It is full of technique. I can't recommend it enough. I have 2 copies of it and gave a copy to my daughter Mary. In a class at the Art Students League in NYC, on the first day of class the teacher said, 'If you are here because you think you will make money as an artist you might as well leave now and enroll in truck driving school'. One student left and never came back. On TV in NYC in the '70's there was a lot of commercials for a truck driving school. There was humor in what that teacher said, but truth too. It sounds to me like you slave over all your paintings. Maybe you should try doing some quick paintings. Might be a good time to get a look at my artwork. This link will take you to my space on an online art gallery called Art 3000. It's a good set up, easy to use, and my paintings look good there, the colors are true. Here's the link... Get back to me when you've taken a look. You should be able to tell which paintings I did fast, and hopefully agree that fast is sometimes good. I'll explain how I do them if you're interested. Oh yeah. This might sound weird. I was chatting with someone who said her dream was to go to NYC and attend the Art Students League. I was able to advise her, but I couldn't help her. I might be in a position to help someone now. Are you familiar with The Art Students League of New York City? It's an amazing place. Yes, yes, yes, get back to me. Later my brother.
@@nelsonx5326 hey thanks man that was cool. I really enjoy looking at different artist’s work. The personality varies so much. I really like your work; my favorites: “Harris field” and “American dream “ love the Van Gogh-Ish style. Also enjoyed your gestures they have this 50s style to them. No, I have not heard of the art league you mentioned, I would like to get back together with other artists. I think that was the best thing about school. However, I’m here in Minneapolis. That made me laugh, regarding making money as an artist😂 I, for one, thought after a few years of art school I be the next “Wayland” lol! Maybe Wayland’s gardener now. I’ll have check that book out on Amazon. Sounds fantastic! Thank god for RUclips though! I’ve learned soooo much more than art school. I do miss the critiques, I could do without the flattery, the honesty was helpful. It would be awesome to mingle with other artists again. Thanks so much, I enjoyed the chat! Sincerely Ken P 👋
@@kenp1013 I'm going to delete the link to my online gallery. One of these days I'm going to make videos on a variety of art and metal working stuff. I like talking art. I might have made a good teacher. I share knowledge, There are people I've worked with that won't show anyone how to do anything. They keep trade secrets. Immigrants, especially from Russia and other countries near Russia really do that, keep trade secrets. It keeps them important at work. Me, I'll show anyone how to do anything I know. You know I left another comment here yesterday, but someone deleted it. I had more advice, more art world experiences, talked about the Art Students league some more. And left an invite if you ever want to check out NYC. I don't know why the reply was deleted. Maybe because I was cursing. Not cursing at anyone, just conversational cursing Brooklyn style. Or maybe I sounded like a predator when I gave you the invite. I'm not a bad guy, but I am very much a stranger. It wasn't weird. If you ever wanted to study in NYC you can find a room in Rockaway Beach for $400 a month. There's a subway station there, about an hour ride tp Manhattan, maybe a hour and a half. It's nice there, right on the ocean, a long boardwalk with bands playing music, French fry stands. The famous 'Pizza Nazi' was there till they ran him out of town. I thought he was cool. He wasn't a Nazi, he was just sort of like the Soup Nazi in Seinfeld. From my online gallery you can email me. Long day at work. Have a ton of gold plated metal antiques I have to finish, They want the gold burnished and glazed to look like French mercury gold. Old school techniques. Maybe I can see your paintings someday. I have a feeling you are better than you let on. Something i say, 'Strive for perfection. If you strive for perfection, even if you fall a bit short the painting will be better from the attempt. I'm open to chat anytime you want. I'll take any questions. Take care, my brother.
Art is an expression, a fleeting moment captured by the artist's inner being and immortalised with whatever medium is chosen Rules are arbitrary and are nearly always "broken " by artists 🎨 rules constraints free spirit.
As with music , one has to understand conventions and rules in order to break them ... There is a reason Pharaoh Sanders sounds better than a toddler picking up a horn and making a noise , there are similar reasons why Picasso's latter squiggles and scrawls carry much more meaning than a monkey frolicking with a tube of Windsor and Newton's finest
Yes. Yes I did find your lesson helpful! It was engaging for me because of the visual examples from the children's book. I have now added this detail of noticing if I'm captivated to stay inside or if I'm being drawn off the edge of a painting. I like the this extra layer of art understanding!
Design, for some reason, is seen by the majority, as secondary to detail. My heirarchy is: Emotion, Design and Detail. And theres’s a finer line between between the first two as they serve one another. This was an excellent lesson. Thank you!
I appreciate your letting me know Bob. Best wishes.
@@antrygrevok6440 I agree. Design is what makes Art emotional
Yes this is why I love the tonalists and the impressionists. Focus on emotive “detail” and create the illusion of detail wherever the viewer is directed away from in order to dwell on the true subject matter.
If I never see another TouTube video that starts with someone yelling at me "HEY GUYS WELCOME TO MY VIDEO!" then continues to harangue me for what seems forever, it will be too soon. They get switched off immediately. This video is the complete opposite, Mr Roberts gets his message across quietly and measuredly; Bravo, I wish there more like you.
Not everyone is a teacher and not everyone knows how to present and market themselves. Doesn’t mean that all their content is crap )).. try to be patient
I'm always very grateful. If I don't feel I learn I just prefer to watch other people. Horses for courses
Same here. I've gotten to the point where, even if it's subject matter I'm really interested in, if they have a slick video with theme music I have to endure first, I'm gone. I can't take "me me me." I just discovered Ian Roberts and I'll be here a lot.
They do that because of a RUclips lesson that teaches creators that you have to be loud and command the attention of the audience immediately. I hate it too.
TouTube
It's really interesting how this composition rule can be used and applied for other mediums. Comics, for example, understand this rule and actively break it, using it to their advantage, guiding the reader along through the panels.
Exactly what I thought of
dragon ball.
Yes great idea 🎉
Are they actually breaking it though? Sure, each panel may break it, but the whole strip or book is the “canvas” artwork.. so they do not break it because this rule is to keep a viewer engaged within the artwork piece, comics just have a multi-frame piece. The goal of this rule is to guide the viewer thru the piece and keep them engaged within it… no matter the scope or medium… single frame or multiple frames… I would challenge you to actually analyze HOW the comics “break” the rule in single frame and you will see how they are guiding you from one frame to another and then on the the next page… it isn’t a broken rule… it’s just expanded in scope….
This guy is excellent. I have watched a few other videos on composition but I an is the first person who really speaks to me about art in a way I can really understand and get with.
Well Andrew that makes me happy. Best wishes.
In eight minutes I gained more useful knowledge than in my two years as an art major at UMass Amherst.
That’s the strength of RUclips
This should be titled, the #1 Composition Rule That Is Hard to Break Effectively. The two works that he shows are in a book, so they create a movement that suggests the viewer to turn the page. Which keeps the viewer engaged with the book. Translating that in to a gallery show may be helpful if you want the works to be telling some kind of story. If it is a singular piece it would be more difficult, but if you break that you can also potentially bring the viewer back in other ways. It is more difficult to walk past a large work that does this, so it may not be as successful in digital format.
Also panelling in comics.
Yes. Summed up, it is a tool, and one that you need to know when you are using and do so with intention. If it’s used unintentionally, you will have unintentional results.
Hi pals! I get what you guys talking about. I guess he's talking about #1 Composition Rule in Painting
It's still not pulling you out of the art though. It's pulling you away from that one page, but the entire book is the "plane" in this case, so the composition is set up to navigate you through this piece of art in the way the artist intended.
I have seen this style of composition in galleries too, where the artist wanted to tell a story through pictures and had a very specific way of setting the paintings up, one leading to the next, leading to the next. Though each painting was of a different subject, at a different location, they sort of "pointed" to each other through the composition.
The gallery guests were not given a single arrow or a single word of how to navigate this story, yet almost everyone walked an unmarked path as the artist had planned.
That is why this rule is so important. It will affect you, even if you know zero about art. And it will affect you, even if you already know it is there.
I think ur missing the whole point. His sharing is a gift.
As a person with no artistic background getting my own animated work going, I find videos like this to be really informative and helpful since I find I have to create a ton of background artwork to go with my animations. Something I never thought much about until I had to do it. I'm crap at it but I like to think I can get better over time.
I'm always amazed in recent animated films how good the backgrounds are. And how astonishingly good the effects are now with water and so on. It is a little like looking at a painting and admiring how lifelike it is. Which is one arena to look at. The other is how visually original it is. Which is a different arena.
I also suggest Ethan Becker if you haven't found him already. He's got some solid tips for drawing/composition and a hilarious sense of humor 😁
Awesome
I am thrilled to have found these quietly masterful lessons.
You all prolly dont care but does anyone know a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my login password. I would love any tips you can give me!
@Nash Forrest instablaster ;)
@Fox Chaim I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out now.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Fox Chaim It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my account :D
@Nash Forrest glad I could help :)
Great video. I had no idea saturation and contrast could guide a viewer so much. Thank you so much for all your hard work.
I've been showing my students the importance of Figure/Ground as "Number One Rule", but I like your more sophisticated explanation; especially the potential movement off the picture plane. There's always more to learn, Thanks.
This borders on poetry: so subtle and observant. Thank you.
What a beautiful perception .
I instantly think back to my work. Some of it naturally holds the viewer, others drag them right off the canvas. This was a great vid.
This was, honestly, one of the first rules I was taught as an art major, and the one which has stuck with me. I always appreciate a reminder, so thank you!
Agree with you 100%. Just perfect. I always tell my students, "no matter what you paint, your only job is to make the eyes of your viewer STAY in your painting."
=One Love=
-A
Mr. Robert’s….I have followed your teachings for years…..you are no doubt the best at conveying your teachings so well. Some people are good teachers but not great artist…..some are great artist but not good teachers……you are both! Thank you for taking the time out of your studio to share and teach us.
This is one of the most powerful things I’ve ever seen. I will never think about composition the same way again thank you so much for this.
I hate how whatever spot of the painting I was looking in he immediately drew red circle around, and that's when I realized how absolutely correct he was
correct - yes / absolutely - NO!
But i preferred the ones where the composition sent you out of the frame. I liked how it suggested something bigger. I once wrote a children’s book called “What’s Around the Corner?” that was created to make the reader curious about what might be on the next page. It forced the artist to compose pictures leading the eye to the right out of frame. Worked well and sold well and was even translated.
yeah, it is super useful but when this is purposeful. often it can be dertimental to holding someone's attention. but def very good for things like this picturebook example or comics where you wish for the reader to jump from panel to panel fast, to give the scene portrayed great momentum, anticipation, curiosity or anxiety.
I guess like most rules, they can be broken with success, if done well ans with forethought.
It's like the rule in writing saying that you should describe what something is, not what something isn't, and then Douglas Adams comes along and describes spaceships as "hanging in the air in the same way that bricks don't": On the face of it, it breaks that rule, looking a bit deeper, it doesn't, because it describes the spaceships as appearing irreal, unbelievable, in a visceral way that just would not be possible without employing a negative, sending the reader "out of the reality frame".
Which is exactly what was intended, and what you intended with those illustrations.
So maybe a better design rule would be "make it do what you want", but then people are completely lost. "Break the rule only once you understand its purpose" seems to be a better didactic approach: Rules are a list of things to pay attention to, nothing more, nothing less.
I think with your book perhaps you arent breaking the true rule here. I think the concept really is that you have to create a piece that leads attention where you want it to be. In 99% of cases, that means you want attention to be on your painting. In your case, you intentionally wanted to lead elsewhere, accomplished that, and the fact that it worked means you were successful.
Honestly, what I saw here is the difference between a composition directed towards dynamism and another directed towards balance. I guess as a painter one might like a balanced one better, but as an ilustrator/graphic designer/storyteller both are equally useful.
Interesting. In many of the examples that you gave, my eye was drawn in the opposite direction that you indicated. In the picture book, my eye went back to the men, or to the trees and the horizon line. Even in your modified, darkened version of the picture of the house with the fence, the contrasting paleness of the other fences, not just their distance from us as viewers, made them more interesting to me. In the still life with fruit, I noticed the cutting board on the left. In all cases it was a draw to wish to examine what might be happening further away from the viewer, out of our reach. I would say that this is a good analysis, but that not all eyes will take these scenes in the same way.
This. Thiiissss. Yes. Thank you for saying this.
Yes. I looked at the men, too. For several reasons the eye (ie my eye) is attracted to that image rather than the strong pathway out of the picture, which to me gives a huge sensation of motion, but it doesn’t take me with it. For this principle to be “the one unbreakable rule” is a bit heavy, I think; certainly it’s an excellent guideline for traditional art, but I think following all the guidelines can easily result in rather dull pictures, and we are so saturated with images these days that an artist who wants to grab the attention almost needs to break a few guidelines.
You are so right !! I teach the same to my students !! First catch the eye of the viewer and then keep it in !!!
Very interesting. The 3:22 example was by far my favorite piece out of all of them. To me, that really flows. And ironically, THAT is what keeps me in the painting. I actively try to create a visual path both into the art, flowing through, and then out. But I definitely will digest what you just said.
I've been a painter all my life; first an illustrator for almost 30 years, and now I paint for several galleries. As I look at the paintings shown here, I wonder at what point in my painting life I no longer labored over composition, if I ever did. I have two large paintings going out to a client today, and as I watched this video, I sat here looking over at an Italian street scene on my wall. The client wanted more people, plants and "stuff" going on, and as I added all this, I realized that I could include elements almost endlessly, and the strength of the composition wouldn't change. I very much enjoyed this video for addressing composition in a way that's too often overlooked by artists.
When I went back to art school as a mature student , I re-studied things I had paid scant attention to the first time around . In particular the ' private vs public ' work .Botticelli's Birth of Venus and Primavera , were both commissioned works for the same client , both had content input from a veritable committee and neither was originally intended for mass viewing . Primavera suffers a little from having so much stuffed into it , whereas Venus is a gorgeous composition that says as much with a lot less . As you observe , a strong composition can handle detail upon detail without becoming cluttered .
@@weehudyy Back in the days of Botticelli and for a long time after, all artworks were commissions, both public and private. I've done many commissions, and the process is still the same. The client has an idea they want you to bring to reality. To do that successfully, the artist has to live in the client's head. This is why so many artists decline commissions. I regard my galleries as "clients". Much of our creative discussions are about content and direction as it's your gallery's job to keep you informed to how your work is received. This is how they cultivate a following of buyers for your work. And true, a painting with a solid design can hold almost infinite details, but my experience is that, however tempting, the painting will tell you when to stop. Kudos to you for going back to school!
Just started my masters in illustration and this has been great supplemental material! I can see that those paintings that break your rule are doing so with purpose, since the intent is to lead the reader into turning the page, vs a single painting whose purpose is to interest the viewer for as long as possible.
I still struggle with composition so I'm very excited to have discovered your videos. ^^ Thank you so much for uploading them for free.
Instinctively I take my art work to the mirror to see it from a distance. I thought I was crazy, now I know I am not!!! Thank you!!! Great video!!!
Same, I also try squinting until my picture becomes simply blocks of colors.
You are still crazy
-_The Voices_
Me too, then I’ll see for the first time some image in the clouds I don’t like, like a big fish!
I found this extremely helpful. Gives me a better understanding of why I personally like certain pieces. I’ve always been drawn to works that make me want to climb in and explore the scene deeper into the painting and now I can see how each artist has manipulated the composition to achieve that feel. Thank you
This short lesson was extremely helpful for a self taught artist like myself. I've been painting birds in in watercolor and am ready to explore landscape painting in the same medium. I'm looking forward to receiving your weekly email. Thank you for sharing! Simone
Thank you so much for this entire series. They have all been helpful and so informative. This was very generous of you.
You are welcome Maire. I am glad you are enjoying them, and for letting me know. Best, Ian.
(The husband, Harry Gray) Excellent timing for me to fall upon this video. Love the book illustration to increase the desire to turn the page. But for me I have been working with a painting that was based on a plein air study that I drew several times and kept building the composition with a few directional clues. For whatever reason I never fully completed the very bottom and to my amazement I am there to complete it.... but I am stumped as I had not solved the bottom. I then realized all attempts WERE sending the eye off the page. A simple solution... Keep it simple. Which was the second video I watched of yours. So in combination of the #1 rule and simplifying I think in the morning I just might have the solution. Thank you and I look forward to checking out more of your info. Blessings to all!
What an incredible educator! I can’t wait to watch every one.
You are so right about the lack of rules, lack of skill, skill even to be shunned or laughed at, l see a big resurgence and appreciation of skill and warmth, in the light of a new dawn.
Refreshing style of teaching. Glad to have found you online.
Another nugget of gold in such a short video. Thankyou especially for the examples! Your're an excellent teacher.
I'm delighted you found it helpful
Also just discovered the videos from Ian Roberts - fantastic lessons in easily digestible portions - thank you!!!
I love your channel. I'm a photographer, not a painter, but your tutorials teach me to see scenes in so many different ways. Thank you. :)
this is simply brilliant! and this video got recommended to me exactly at the time when i'd been struggling with an illustration due to not knowing of this! Now I know which part to emphasise and how, ah! safed me so much trial and error and agonising over this decision. also, I very very much appreciate how many examples you'd given! and that the changes you did had been quite subtle actually, yet having a profound effect on how the piece affects the viewer. i think showing this in this subtle manner conveys how crucial it is way better than drastic changes. this is kind of rare among art tutorials online actually, so i appreciate you doing so a lot.
Happened to be looking for interesting videos that will help me progress in my newly found art journey, and luckily came across this! Art classes in High School in the 70's and now back into art, missing it all these years while life got in the way. Love how you teach, and getting back to basics to hopefully make my work better. Signed up for weekly videos and look forward to going back and viewing all previous ones! Thanks so much!
Thank you so much for this. I loved teaching my children to study/analyze children's book illustrations. I love your gentle, expert manner.
I followed the exact routes he drew. He's right.
This is by far the most informative 8+ minutes I’ve had on RUclips in a while. Wait actually more like 24+ minutes bc i watched it 3 times. I just can’t stop watching it. Thank you, 🙏🏼 Thank you.
Thanks for this video. I have problems falling asleep but one minute of your gibberish and i sleep like a baby. Well done.
Thank you! This was extremely helpful. As a new artist, and self-taught, perspective is my next step in learning. But you also gave me this new great tip of engaging the viewer and how to be objective about the painting.
Your transition at seamless. Each time you make your point, the fade in of the contrast subtly guides the viewer. Leading our eyes to the answer just before you even state the claim. Truly eloquent! Great video.
Eloquent is indeed the most appropriate word! And finally someone who REALLY demonstrated the BIG difference a SLIGHT detail, like an increased color intensity, can make.
Great Brad, glad you liked the content and the transitions.
I wish I could share this painting I just saw with you. I would not have known why it drew me in so much if I hadn’t seen this video. My eyes couldn’t escape this painting, and now I know why!
Ian, I sent you a picture of the painting I’m talking about on Instagram. Would love to hear what you think.
So glad I randomly sumbled upon your channel. These videos are expanding the way I think about drawing in a serious way. Thank you.
This is brilliant. Subscribed. I wasn't allowed to take art classes in college because they were only for art majors. I feel like this channel might be my "university art class" that I never got to take. Thank you!!!
Welcome Heather.
I used to ask my kids _ "What do you see when you look". You have given me a new 'perspective' on conscious seeing and creation and the 'why' of interest. Tonal centered perspective and lead lines even though they may be unintentional visual erratics.
I was looking for this to give my work some maturity
Your videos are excellent. There's a lot to learn, and the alternative is to proceed by trial and error which can be difficult. Over the years as I've observed the world around me, I've learned to look at the world (depending on the subject) as if I were going to take a photograph of it. A couple of my own 'rules': "Not every 'good idea' will necessarily make a good painting." and "If you don't know how to proceed, then don't."
Visual perception is one of my favorite subjects when it comes to design. Great video! I would totally recommend to anyone to read about how the human eyes interprets what it sees (shapes, patterns, lines etc) , and why, to get a deeper understanding of the visual hierarchy. It's super interesting :)
I found this so helpful! I just began painting this spring and have much to learn, but you've just explained what I did wrong in my last painting, why it feels unbalanced.
Bravo ! This advice is pure gold. I no longer have the patience to draw, and have for many years taken the route of amateur photography. All that is said here applies equally to photography. Many thanks for the insight Sir.
That is very true. Same principles. Best wishes.
You bring such clarity to the matters you speak to....thank you! Excellent teaching.
And now I know why my most appreciated comment is, "I just can't stop staring at it."
Yes, that's it.
That is when you need a closing line... "Well, if you hung it in your home, you wouldnt have to stop"
“What if I told you that you’d never have to?”
I am a decent photographer but have struggled a lot with drawing and painting. Your insights are so very helpful. I have renewed hope and motivation due to your guidance.
This was very helpful - for my amateur/ semi professional photography, and digital art distractions. Thank you!
It is a great treasure that this videos suddenly appeared to me, it is the first time I have seen them and I am delighted with how wonderful you explains, providing us with very clear examples. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Well you are a breath of fresh air as they say. Your presentation is good, like very easy to listen to and your words seem to go right in to the right channel in my art department brain. Bob
Your explanations are fantastic. You are a very talented teacher. Thank you!
Just found you here. Have your books in my bookcase. Love them, too. Thanks for your generosity with this.
My eyes didn’t always follow the way you showed. But it’s something that I will definitely keep in mind for my compositions. Thank you 😊
I think that people underestimate how critical it is for an artist to draw the viewers eye and mind into the piece and hold them for as long as possible. Many denigrate Jackson Pollack as childish and lacking any real focal point or perspective but after seeing one in person at MOMA, you could spend a long time following the lines, taking a very personal journey around the canvas. It is that personal journey that keeps you engaged and fixated on the working subsequently end up with a feeling of connection to something utterly abstract.
Pollack, I read, was a CIA paid "artist" to deliberately mis-create "art." This was intentional with other similar artists. TPTB purposely chose to "hire" so-called "artists" to paint and sculpt, creating "modern art" to confuse the viewer.
I've started reading and viewing about art to try and add greater meaning to my photography and found this an interesting and well presented tutorial. Thank you.
This is so cool. I found the examples of breaking the rule in the children's book absolutely fascinating though and now I want to play around with breaking this rule on purpose! I love art it's so interesting.
Thank you! Great reminder on a key point of emphasis. I especially like the helpful tip at the end about using a mirror and or turning the image upside down. Forgot about those tips. Thanks!
Thank you, Ian. This was very informative. I think the more we become of aware of these sometimes subtle changes, the more control we will have to keep the viewer engaged. Most of us probably would not have been aware if you had not shown us. Thank you again.
VERY helpful. I'd never thought about Rule #1. I'm hurrying back to my easel as soon as I'm done with this comment. I want to apply this to my work. Thanks again
I wish I had longer to live..there is so much I could have learned from you
I don't know how much time you have left, but it's never to late to try! It just takes a day to dabble and try things.
i have started watercolor. I really enjoyed your video. I am learning how to mix colors. Thank you for this great introduction
Thank you for sharing.Very interesting. One more point to think of, when painting.
Wow. I will be aware of this from now on. Thanks for the tips on how to keep the eye looking at the center.
Glad you liked it Sophronia. I'm not sure I meant you want the eye looking at the center. But just not getting pulled out beyond the edge of the painting. Best wishes.
You had me subscribed in less than two minutes. “Dramatically abstracted from the world”. I love that.
You are an excellent teacher... I'm learning so much from your videos. Thank you!
This brought A LOT of value to my (brand new) creative practice ... 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Very thought provoking! These points will stay with me every time I imagine a composition!
I'm so glad you found it helpful.
Thanks for the lesson. One thing is a struggle for me however; my eye never follows the path a teacher points out in a painting. Like the painting with geese. I go from main subjects of: geese to child to next geese & next along the open path in the grass, in a circular direction, upward. So, in sum, I just follow the main primary objects, not surrounding scenery, & after these, I next see a very clear cut path in the scenery, created by the strong values, that sweep my eye up & around to the right. I do not at all ignore all the main objects & just follow the scenery as pointed out in the video, & don't believe most people would. This causes my to struggle with instruction telling me exactly how to direct the eye, from a teacher, when I never see the same way the teacher is saying you will see & thus lead the eye.
I feel like artist learn to "read" paintings in a way a normal person would not.
That's good if you want to appreciate deeper intentionality and craftsmanship in paintings but actually interpreting those pathways as the way a random viewer looks at your painting is a little far fetched I think. The same way a trained musician can appreciate the depth of a classical composition and recognize it as supperior while a normal person will prefer trap music.
This info has helped me tremendously. Turning the painting upside down is brilliant. Thank you
Very interesting. I’m curious in the distinction between ‘lines of direction’ and ‘lines of force.’ I’m not sure I know what lines of force are.
You are sharp to pick up on that. When I think of a compositional structure I think of the underlying lines that integrate that structure with the picture plane (the lines of direction). The lines of force are how you activate that with values masses, gradations and so one to pull the eye around the painting.
Yes this. My painting mentor who got me into drawing and painting and color theory, the whole art curriculum, told me this rule first. I remember it because it’s basically the only advice she called a “rule” other than the rule of thirds which operates more like principal in many but not all compositions than an actual rule. The rest of artmaking is highly experimental and free from rules. That’s the fun of it. Where you can discover many things the more art you make.
So glad you found it engaging
I think some of the best paintings draws your eyes out. I like breaking rules.
...
As long as it works then why not.
Eye of the beholder... As artists art should be what we love to create. As the viewer, what we love to view. If others share that love, great. If not, that's okay too.
Yes, Please provide instruction monthly. Thank you for providing great instruction.
That was an aha moment. I can’t get enough! Thanks again😊
So glad!
I amazed that I found your site. I can't believe I didn't see it before. So wonderful of you to share.!
Points well taken. However, aside from the purposeful movement out of the field of view that might represent functional necessity, representational painting could include a highly conceptual impact that deliberately challenges the viewer by making the subject impactful, yet leading them out of the field of view. The deliberateness need not be immediately functional outside of the concept. Neue Sachlichkeit paintings ARE representational, but feature distortions and impacts that challenge the sensibilities of the viewer, and they sometimes flow right out of the field of view. Again, your points are well-taken for most conventional representational paintings, but the composition could be meant to draw attention by confounding the flow and purpose of the imagery in ways that lead the viewer to question why the artist has made such a choice. I think the key is the deliberateness of the flow. Sometimes, an artist can vary such impacts ever so slightly and the audience will spend time on the painting simply trying to understand why the images appear odd to them. For many audiences, that is as much of a draw as a smooth flowing piece. I just wanted to introduce the concept of intentionality into the mix so that some might understand that there could be a large array of reasons why an artist might want to deliberately break this rule. However, you did an insanely good job of making a complex subject easily understandable. Thanks so much for your video!
as a complete noob to the world of painting 'art', Thank you for this explanation and for keeping it simple.
now, thinking back on some of my paintings, I think I may understand some of what was off about them and why others were engaging.
This is a great video. The more I learn about art, the more it seems like creative expression through psychological warfare.
I’m a musician by trade, and that is a great description! In my field we’re trying to make air molecules compress and expand… for the purpose of altering the listener’s mood.
or psychoogical and emotional expansion....a recognition of the mood the painting evokes in the viewer...
You are incredible! Just love every single video of yours! Big hug!
Simply fascinating ....
I like how focused and succinct your guidance is. Very helpful and clear. Thank you
Thank you Bev.
Was perspective invented or discovered? I think many viewers find the breaking of conventional composition more exciting. As it feels new, fresh, different. It is like jazz. Learn the rules, work with them, but always have a mind to escape them, as new exciting art is the process of breaking away from convention.
So very well explained. Thanks so much. I was amazed at how little it took to pull the eye away.
- Very interesting & informative.
> However, I must point out that at several points in your presentation, your voice was so Soothing & had such a callming effect on me that I wouldl love to have a ½ hour audio tape of it to finally put my insomnia problem to rest 😏 💤💤💤 😴 🛌 👌
Me too
I literally only logged in to subscribe so I don’t lose your channel- which I never do. You’re a very good teacher. Thank you
I came as a music student but learned something new
Because this isn't about music?
dITTO
Very insightful Ian and your example reinforces understanding about this rule. Many thanks for sharing your expert thoughts.
I’ve been doing art for years and I still feel like a beginner. It’s amazing how much I don’t know 🤷🏻♂️
I've been painting in oils for 58 years. You will become a better artist with age. Yes, study, learn, try things. But life is a teacher. When I was 35 years old I became interested in classical guitar, and I became an excellent guitarist. An understanding of music benefited my painting.
More recently I began to just play with paint. It was nice to have no idea, not struggle, just have fun with color. Thing is, I honestly believe the fooling around paintings are some of my best.
The best thing you have is the need to create. Some people lack that entirely. My creative nature is strong. And I have a healthy ego. Pride is a tool. Pride in accomplishment. I can't even cook a pancake lunch for friends without announcing 'These will be the best pancakes in the universe'. Be realistic though. If the pancakes or paintings are terrible recognize it. Ego is a tool, but you control it.
My drawing teacher, the great Robert Beverly Hale said, 'Recognize your limitations, otherwise you'll go crazy'. We aren't all Leonardo's. A joke I say is, 'I don't think outside the box. But the box I think in is really big'.
I don't paint from photographs. I don't think it is good to. I can see using photographs, but don't copy them. That is something in me. I used a photo once with great success. But I set the still life up, did preliminary sketches, used the photo for reference, and kept the still life set up to refer to for the duration of working on the painting. I did it to show I could do it. You will see in a lot of RUclips videos a lot of artists copy photos. You won't see the photo, but you won't see the landscape they are painting either, They are in their studio copying a landscape photo. A landscape isn't only a visual experience. There is breeze making everything sway, birds chirping, insects biting you, wild animals happening by, smells, sounds, allergies. You are immersed in it.
Studying figure drawing will make you a better landscape painter. Make you a better artist no matter the medium or subject. It is tried and true. And try to study with the best teacher you can. And get good books. All books will have something to teach, but for sure some books are better than others. The best book on painting I know of is 'Painting Techniques of the Great Masters' by Lester Cooke. I can not recommend this book enough. Lots of pictures of paintings with in-depth analysis. Professor Hale said that if you want to see how to do something look at how the great masters did it. I also highly recommend 'The Natural Way to Draw' by Kimon Nicolaides. One look at the book and you will see why. It isn't a difficult book requiring heavy lifting, like a book on perspective. A good book for inspiration is 'The Art Spirit' by Robert Henri. It will make you want tp paint. And visit art museums. Put on magnifying glasses and get so close to the painting you get yelled at by a guard. I got yelled at, but it was worth it. I had my nose in a Renoir, a painting of young women, and the girl with blonde hair, her hair was painted with every color in the spectrum but read as blonde. It was amazing. Another time I sat on the bench in front Jackson Pollock's painting 'Autumn Rhythm'. I wanted to know why it was considered such a great work of art. I first spent some time trying to find the exact center of the painting. I settled on an oval blob the size of a quarter as where the diagonals crossed, the exact center. I stared at the center for fifteen minutes, eyes going in and out of focus. The painting came alive. The long drips and splats became branches and leaves, like laying on my back in the woods, and they moved and swayed like affected by a breeze. Thank God I wasn't on acid, or it could have turned into 'The Day of the Triffids', an old horror movie with walking killer trees. It's one thing to be yelled at by museum guards, it's another to have to be tackled by them. Haha.
Part of the way I've stayed connected in the arts is having an art related job. At present I'm a silversmith in NYC involved in the restoration of metal art and art objects. I've repaired Picasso and Dali sculptures. It is an interesting job. I worked on a sculpture by the modern artist Matthew Barney, met him, talked to him, got his phone number. I also worked with Leroy Nieman. He was a very nice man.
I haven't sold many paintings. You might know already it is difficult to make a living as a painter. Or maybe you do sell, I don't know. I'm not a salesman. I couldn't sell dogfood to a dog. I couldn't sell crack to a crackhead. I never got into one of those galleries that can 'make an artist'. And I've been right there, living in NYC, in a position many would die for. It might be my personality. Something about me caused the professional art dealers to not be interested in selling my art. Or my style isn't in fashion. I don't know. But I am a perfectionist, learn fast, and was hired to assist artists, mostly metal sculptors because metal art requires muscle to make it happen. Think, as a painter, do you need any assistants? Someday if you make it big a business might build around you, like Peter Max or Leroy Nieman. Have an agent, have a whole loft full of craftsman dedicated to reproducing your images and delivering and selling them. But that is rare.
I like to chat. You see I'm talkative. I'll chat any time you like. Find me here. I'm going to copy this comment and put it in your channels correspondence site. From there I can lead you to see my paintings online. It's an excellent online gallery you should know about anyway.
Just keep at it, you will improve. Please yourself. Hope I've been of assistance. Good luck to you.
Hey, thanks, Nelson. you seem very confident...I would like to see your work. I love to see other people’s work. I’ve “sold” and done commissions, but I do not “sell” ...I just want to be competent. I struggle with every project. I’m getting better but I strive for a much higher level. I’ve worked so hard to become “mediocre “ I don’t care if I’m rich and famous ; I just want to be very technically accomplished.
@@kenp1013
Hey Ken, you got back to me! I subscribed to Ian here, he's good. RUclips is great for learning. I wish it existed when I was young.
I had to come over here to check because RUclips didn't notify me. Maybe they don't like people using it like a chatroom. I once wrote the whole first draft of a 150,000 word novel during a year long chat on RUclips. Like I said, I like to talk. Which might be a good thing for you, provided I have information you're looking for.
'I sound confident'. That is good, I guess. I have a lot of experience, good education, and have been at it a while. I think my work has merit. Or why do it, right? When someone sees my art work, in general the person will be very excited and interested in at least one painting of mine. That makes it worth it.
You want to become technically proficient. Get that book called 'Painting Techniques of the Great Masters' by Lester Cooke. It is full of technique. I can't recommend it enough. I have 2 copies of it and gave a copy to my daughter Mary.
In a class at the Art Students League in NYC, on the first day of class the teacher said, 'If you are here because you think you will make money as an artist you might as well leave now and enroll in truck driving school'. One student left and never came back. On TV in NYC in the '70's there was a lot of commercials for a truck driving school. There was humor in what that teacher said, but truth too.
It sounds to me like you slave over all your paintings. Maybe you should try doing some quick paintings. Might be a good time to get a look at my artwork. This link will take you to my space on an online art gallery called Art 3000. It's a good set up, easy to use, and my paintings look good there, the colors are true. Here's the link...
Get back to me when you've taken a look. You should be able to tell which paintings I did fast, and hopefully agree that fast is sometimes good. I'll explain how I do them if you're interested.
Oh yeah. This might sound weird. I was chatting with someone who said her dream was to go to NYC and attend the Art Students League. I was able to advise her, but I couldn't help her. I might be in a position to help someone now. Are you familiar with The Art Students League of New York City? It's an amazing place.
Yes, yes, yes, get back to me. Later my brother.
@@nelsonx5326 hey thanks man that was cool. I really enjoy looking at different artist’s work. The personality varies so much. I really like your work; my favorites: “Harris field” and “American dream “ love the Van Gogh-Ish style. Also enjoyed your gestures they have this 50s style to them.
No, I have not heard of the art league you mentioned, I would like to get back together with other artists. I think that was the best thing about school. However, I’m here in Minneapolis.
That made me laugh, regarding making money as an artist😂 I, for one, thought after a few years of art school I be the next “Wayland” lol! Maybe Wayland’s gardener now.
I’ll have check that book out on Amazon. Sounds fantastic! Thank god for RUclips though! I’ve learned soooo much more than art school. I do miss the critiques, I could do without the flattery, the honesty was helpful. It would be awesome to mingle with other artists again. Thanks so much, I enjoyed the chat!
Sincerely Ken P 👋
@@kenp1013
I'm going to delete the link to my online gallery. One of these days I'm going to make videos on a variety of art and metal working stuff. I like talking art. I might have made a good teacher. I share knowledge, There are people I've worked with that won't show anyone how to do anything. They keep trade secrets. Immigrants, especially from Russia and other countries near Russia really do that, keep trade secrets. It keeps them important at work. Me, I'll show anyone how to do anything I know.
You know I left another comment here yesterday, but someone deleted it. I had more advice, more art world experiences, talked about the Art Students league some more. And left an invite if you ever want to check out NYC. I don't know why the reply was deleted. Maybe because I was cursing. Not cursing at anyone, just conversational cursing Brooklyn style. Or maybe I sounded like a predator when I gave you the invite. I'm not a bad guy, but I am very much a stranger. It wasn't weird. If you ever wanted to study in NYC you can find a room in Rockaway Beach for $400 a month. There's a subway station there, about an hour ride tp Manhattan, maybe a hour and a half. It's nice there, right on the ocean, a long boardwalk with bands playing music, French fry stands. The famous 'Pizza Nazi' was there till they ran him out of town. I thought he was cool. He wasn't a Nazi, he was just sort of like the Soup Nazi in Seinfeld.
From my online gallery you can email me.
Long day at work. Have a ton of gold plated metal antiques I have to finish, They want the gold burnished and glazed to look like French mercury gold. Old school techniques.
Maybe I can see your paintings someday. I have a feeling you are better than you let on. Something i say, 'Strive for perfection. If you strive for perfection, even if you fall a bit short the painting will be better from the attempt.
I'm open to chat anytime you want. I'll take any questions. Take care, my brother.
Art is an expression, a fleeting moment captured by the artist's inner being and immortalised with whatever medium is chosen Rules are arbitrary and are nearly always "broken " by artists 🎨 rules constraints free spirit.
As with music , one has to understand conventions and rules in order to break them ... There is a reason Pharaoh Sanders sounds better than a toddler picking up a horn and making a noise , there are similar reasons why Picasso's latter squiggles and scrawls carry much more meaning than a monkey frolicking with a tube of Windsor and Newton's finest
Agreed. Do whats needed, right or wrong.
Beware anyone that uses “rule”, “must”, or “can not” in regards to Art.
Beware of people who capitalize "art."
I just drove to S Cal and was near your studio so,hi today is beautiful for beach RV stay. Thanks for sharing your methods. C.
I drank this talk in as wine. So elated to find someone who speaks to what I'm interested in, thank you Ian.
Yes. Yes I did find your lesson helpful! It was engaging for me because of the visual examples from the children's book. I have now added this detail of noticing if I'm captivated to stay inside or if I'm being drawn off the edge of a painting. I like the this extra layer of art understanding!