WRT Ross vs Garcia: while I think they have similar stats in the mid to lategame, Ross still has waterwalking and the +15 crit over Garcia, which gives him a niche that no one on your team other than Dozla is offering. For his combat alone Garcia usually isn't really doing a whole lot past Ch14, although I wouldn't say he's bad or anything. But I can see putting them both in Okay or Good investment depending on what your opinion is. Garcia is definitely the best long term unit in Okay along with Kyle. Fuck Forde. Either way, let's make it clear once again that literally every unit in this game is viable in some shape or form.
I find that Ross can range anywhere from mediocre to great depending entirely on how his speed growth turns out. If he gets very little speed then I tend to end up using Garcia instead. Average speed Ross get used for water-walking and is generally a decent Pirate/Berserker, but speed-blessed Ross is where the fun starts. Speed-blessed Ross is an unholy terror that one-rounds half of the game, and is stupidly powerful with a Killer Axe or Garm. I really wish Ross had ~10% higher speed growth so that he'd be that unholy terror every playthrough.
@@fadeemblem7665 Yeah my first Ross turned out that way with good speed and so years later when I saw tier lists, I was absolutely amazed how low down he was. In my first playthrough he was my MVP.
I would say Garcia belongs in Good (Investment) simply because he’s an axe user with a great Speed-boosting promotion in a game where lances dominate. He doesn’t start off amazing, but he’s generally easier to use than his son and has similar payoff.
I would be okay with saying Garica is okay tier if Ross wasn't in good with investment like eh....what. He is literally just Garica if he started off weak as crap with pirate route class option in exchange.
He does his job as only viable axe user (sorry Ross and GK!Forde/kyle) well in the early game until you Gerik/Duessel. Never used him past that point though.
I think Garcia and Ross's combat mid-late are fairly equivalent, but also somewhat unimpressive. But I really like Ross's unique peak walk utility in some chapters, and the crit makes up for a lot of the shortcomings.
@@Mekkkah I don’t entirely disagree - Ross has those advantages later on. I still think that Garcia’s distinctly better earlygame and having not that much worse lategame potential is worth enough to keep him relevant, generally. Of course, that depends on the amount of investment for Ross or Garcia.
Ooh, Sacred Stones is one of the FE games I know the best but I still love me some character guides. I always learn something when I hear other people’s reasonings for liking/not liking certain units.
@ Mekkah This is an excellent way to quickly present the usefulness of units at a glance. It's beautiful in its simplicity and is easily understandable at even the slightest of glances [minus no names, but that's an acceptable sacrifice since you were using a tier list maker] Love this presentation. Keep up the excellent work
@@covershopkid also it always feels like too much of a pain in the ass to recuit her in either path too, in both situations she's surrounded by pretty average level enemies, so its difficult to bait her out efficiently, and even then she's barely worth the effort of doing it because again she's much lower level
At one point I pulled up a spreadsheet of everybody's growths and compared Seth to the other three cavs. Seth not only has better bases, and better weapon ranks as a pre-promote, he also has better growths than the other three. Seth's bases are so good he can be thrown in to chapter 19 untrained and easily hold his own, which is already nuts, but also just happens to have growths good enough to make him outpace every other unit you get in the game. I think he's the most brainless unit in the history of the franchise. If you aren't using Seth you're making the game actively harder for yourself.
These guides are so much more useful than most tier lists I've come across. Those tend to lack good explanations for characters, especially once you get to the lower end of the list. I often walk away from those with the what but not the why. Your guides, on the other hand, take the time to explain the usecase for each character regardless of when they join or how good they are. For someone without much hard mode experience, the why is really what matters since it allows me to take the information and make my own decisions. Thanks to your guides, I'm really looking forward to giving hard mode a shot for the GBA games now. One bit of feedback: For the investment grouping (not Good Investment, the other one), I think it'd be worth the time to spend a little more focus on the payoff. If you were to invest in this character, what's the return? How well do they pay you off? You talk about it in a general sense for the whole group, but something a bit specific for each character would help.
in my most recent playthrough i was letting everyone get at least a few levels to see how rng would treat them, and my neimi just happened to have her first three levels all be either perfect or near-perfect. so naturally i made her a permanent member of the team, made her a sniper with a rank support w/ assassin colm, and they ended up being one of the most lethal pairs on my team. just goes to show that even a bad character (read: an archer) can be awesome, given sufficient divine mandate
Been playing with Ranger Neimi, and something I find fun to do is to aggro enemies who can do 1 range damage with Neimi with a bow equipped. If the enemies decide to prioritize Neimi due to her lack of 1 range, it's basically a free kill for anyone else during player phase
@@typhooncarter Zieg: He has amazing base stats, great growths, can use Devil weapons without backfire, and zips across the map. What more can you ask for? Stuff all of your best resources into him, your best weapons and stat boosters and everything.
This is a great guide! I have sacred stones in my backlog, so when I play it I’ll come and consult this again, thanks! I always love watching your videos :D
Great guide! Sacred stones is the game I started with, way back when it came out. I played it enough times to actually get all the support conversations across my playthroughs. I made an effort to use every unit at least once as a significant fighter on my army and I can say I certainly agree with your assessments, even if my style of play would push Gilliam up the ranks. One thing I've wanted to ask since I started the channel, could you do a guide for how to get into playing the older games? I'm sure forum posts and such are out there, but you always explain things so well that I feel like it'd help me (and hopefully others) access that part of Fire Emblem history.
6:10 "Seth can easily solo the game but I wouldn't recommend it for your first playthrough" This in a nutshell. I did a run with Seth only and the hardest thing about it was trying to figure out how to get Ephraim to avoid seeing combat. Even in chapters where there was no other way, a practically base-level Ephraim did well enough. Hardest thing about Seth solo is keeping your inventory stocked (and those stupid gorgons in Chapter 19), though just because it's relatively easy (with game knowledge) doesn't mean it's the best way to play. Overall I agree with the character categories. My favorite "bad" units to use in SS are Colm and Neimi because their super fast Fire affinity support gives Colm the ability to actually deal damage with his near-guaranteed doubling, and once Neimi hits Ranger she can do quite a bit of good. Still nowhere near broken units, but they make me feel like I'm playing a regular FE game and not one where all my units are immortal gods.
In maps with fog of war, I find Torch staves and Thieves/Assassins/Rogues practically mandatory takes. Combined with Snipers and/or magi for potshots against enemies and cavalry to sweep anyone left, and the whole Recon/Fire/Maneuver is exceptionally good.
imo Duessel is No Brainer specially on Ephraim route, he's pretty much Seth with less movement but combat wise he never falls off, and he's easily able to S rank axe which makes him my Garm wielder most of the time. and depending on the definition, Ephraim could possibly be on Good (No Investment), yeah if you don't train him and then start using him on the later chapter then he might be just ok (I think he might still be able to kill Cavs and Armors even then), but if you use him immediately he's good to go, his Prf weapon one shots those who are super effective, and even those that aren't can still be 2-4 shot (so ~1-2 rounds). So you don't really "invest" in him at the start, he's a beast immediately, and then because of that he easily snowballs into a growth unit, so I don't really feel like I'm "investing" in him, I'm just using him normally and he just scales naturally. Contrast that with someone like Lute where you actually have to "invest" by setting up kills for her until she can snowball by herself. Again this depends on the definition, but for the definition I have in my mind then Ephraim is "No Investment". My combat trinity usually becomes Seth, Duessel, Ephraim (in that order from best to worst) while everyone else is support for these 3.
My hot take is that Duessel on Ephraim route is superior to Seth. Seth makes maps easier sure but there is not a single map bar the one you get Duessel in where he's necessary and you can get that done with promoted Franz. Once Dussel is obtained he can basically solo the entire game with 4 hand axes and an elixir, he can solo carry ghost ship, Seth can actually die on that map.
You know when I first went into sacred stones I though L’a Rachel was going to be a really good unit since I heard she’s basically a pseudo lord, but man, I will never understand why they thought putting unit relatively late into the game at such a low base level whose only way to gain exp is with an awful staff exp formula was a good idea. It terms of changes I’d make, I think I’d put Duessel in No Brainer because he’s Seth 2 on Ephiriam route and even when the routes converge he can still out in work thanks to excellent weapon ranks. Like I love Dozla to death but I’ll admit he doesn’t hold up nearly as well overtime compared to Duessel. Otherwise I agree with everything other than Garcia & Ross being in seperate tiers (I’d argue Garcia’s decent early game performance & Ross’ access to berserker are equal advantages) but I think you’ve heard enough about that judging by the comments.
Ironically my colm and Gilliam were my best units colm had capped speed 28 luck 13 defense and 19 strength at max level and Gilliam was just really good for some reason don’t really know why he just turned out good I guess
It's funny, Forde actually has been the one of the better horse riders of my team. He always finds a way to out-pace Kyle and even Franz in some situations.
A video about the first fe game I ever played! Nice! I feel like this way of talking about units is way more useful (at least for me) than a standard tier list,
I got a covid positive test and two weeks to kill so I was just about to spank the GBA Fire Emblems for fun. I was planning to use only units I never use for flavor. It was interesting to see where they fell here. (I never use Joshua but I always use Natasha).
great video Im going on my first ever hard mode run and for obvious reasons chose Sacred Stones, also my first Ironman. dont know exactly what happened but I just got so fucked so early on the game, Im currently on chapter 17 and I spent most of the run with only Seth and Franz as reliable combat units. luckily I got really RNG blessed with Franz and he's on par with Seth for most of the game, maybe even better at times but seriously, totally fucked, spent half the game with no healers before I could promote Lute. when I got Gerik I was so relieved and I remembered your advice of promoting him the second you get him, but decided to give him juuust a few level ups before promotion and then the pegasus knight killed him. I almost cried, it was beautiful. thats what this game is all about just wanted to share it with someone. godspeed Mekkah!
I'm seriously amazed that you didn't put Vanessa/Franz in No Brainer given how highly you valued them in the draft race. I'm not saying I disagree with their placement though, not at all. If Gerik belongs in No Brainer, I think Ephraim also belongs in No Brainer, great bases, great growths, phenomenal personal weapons, mount upon promotion. Without even trying I recently did a run where Hero Gerik was my darling for clearing out large amounts of enemies until I realised that Ephraim was actually tankier than him without me giving him any preferential treatment whatsoever. And this was Eirika route.
In draft races Vanessa and Franz are different. The fact that those play out on Normal Mode alone is a big difference, but also the difference between playing a race and just playing casually by itself is a differentiating factor. I think Vanessa and Franz are amazing but there's no doubt that they take investment. They are worth that investment, of course, but they require more than the No Brainers, especially Seth. I considered putting Ephraim in No Brainer. He probably is on Ephraim route, though again, he does take some investment to keep up. If you're playing on Eirika route he needs less investment since he autolevels so funnily enough you could consider him better on that one.
@@Mekkkah That's a fair conclusion. I always imagine "investment" to mean they need to be fed kills, which I never have to do with Franz. Obviously if you don't use him he does need to be fed kills, but he's usable right out the box, as is Vanessa to a degree (maybe a few kills due to her bad base strength). However you are absolutely right, the difference between Franz and Seth is worthy of a difference in placement.
Haven’t finished the vid but Duessel seems like a complete no brainer for me. Seems much closer to Saleh in this context than he is to the rest in “good no investment “.
Here is something I have been grappling with for years: how much better would Innes be if he was a ranger instead of sniper? More precisely, would it be enough to make him worth using into endgame to deal with some of the fliers
Innes deserved his own class that had lances and bows. It would fit his desire to rival ephraim, and also make him somewhat viable while keeping his incredible bow skills intact.
Innes is very viable in zero percent growths, he's one of the few characters who can deal with gargoyles/deathgoyles and will reliably oneshot the Mogalls/Arch Mogalls well into the endgame. Yeah, he's not really good in a game with growths because lol archers, but in a mode where you have to take it slower he steps up to the plate.
Mekkah. I know everyone has a boner for movement but you REALLY can't get away with putting Duessel not in the no brainer tier. He's like Oswin but with movement, the man is unkillable. SEVENTEEN DEFENSE AND STRENGTH, A RANK IN ALL WEAPONS HUUGE BONUSES
My hot take is that Dussel is even more broken than Seth lol. As much as people say you can throw Seth into a horde of enemies and he'll be fine, its just not true. Early game perhaps but once mid game comes around you do have to consider turning on your brain. In fact after you get Duessel on Ephraim route, which is where I consider mid game to start, you head to the ghost ship and Seth can actually die on that map. He also doesn't exterminate the boss right away which is dangerous. You know who doesn't die no matter how hard you try to kill him? Duessel. Give him 4 hand axes and an elixir and he'll solo carry ghost ship like an angry attack helicopter. Only Myrr can really compete with him and that's after she's fed. Give him 3 hand axes, a pure water, and elixir at all times and he'll solo the entire game. Give him Garm and not even women and children are safe. Duessel pretty much solves every single chapter after joining by himself, you don't need anything else. Seth can do this but axe > lances / swords and hes not as strong or tanky so you will have to consider a couple times whether or not it is a good idea to send Seth in against all those warriors. Duessel frankly gives 0 fucks and if he died it was because we ran out of hand axes to retaliate with or you didn't bother to top him off with his elixir or drink any pure waters.
I don't see how Ross is good with investment while Garica is okay when a trained Ross ends up with pretty much with the same performance if trained. Only thing he has over Garica is berserker route option but that requires the ocean seal which both sells for good cash and could be used on colm for a second rogue.
Peak and water walking is way better than a 2nd thief. Peak access in particular means that ross can use his High bulk, crit and high power much more efficiently, something that only Dozla can brag about as well.
@@lpfan4491 I mean is it really though? Promoted axe users should be 1RK most enemies they have any business fighting anyway. Like if Ross was a lvl1 pirate at base I would agree but having to dump 18 levels into a character to even early promote into beserker is waaay to much effort for a 15% crit chance I ideally shouldn't need most of the time if ever. Edit: Also promoting Colm means I don't have to waste a slot taking L'rachel to Ephraim chp 14 and can just stab him instead for exp.
@@boredomkiller99 Or you go without a rogue. Rennac is straight useless unless colm is dead and you want to avoid bad RNG. Because he can only steal a dracoshield and get the deserttreasures....the second one is doable by anyone and the first one is doable by colm. Rogue is not even that much of an upgrade.
@@lpfan4491 not needing lockpicks is nice and saves inventory space or chest keys or door key is also cool so I can throw weapons and item on my combat units. i mean truth is the best use of the ocean seal normally is to sell it anyways though I would still use it on Colm before Ross because I ain't got time to raise a scrub axe user 18+ levels that turns out only fairly decent at best in a game that has good axe users.
Seth is viable in endgame for Zero Percent Growths. Not the best character (those would be Duessel, Gerik, and Knoll) but that just goes to show how busted he is.
The thing with Neimi, is that she is an archer who can *safely go into the arena, because she can only fight mages, shamans, and archers (they don't send monks at you for some odd reason). Her growths keep pace in the arena generally, especially her luck so she CAN'T get killed by a crit in case you need to withdraw with her. Also, you are quick to get the orions bolt to immediately upgrade her for swords and a mount.
I don't think arena grinding should be considered in any way when rating units since pretty much any character is good if you take your time to grind them, even if grinding with some units is easier than others.
Great unique aspect to Neimi here to be honest. Sure the guy saying anyone can be power leveled in arena but gra8 is saying she can do it safely and gets her promo item right after. Arena does make units very powerful but I'd make it into an ironman rule, if you click into arena you must enter it, which would make it terrifying instead of just pulling back and waiting for 700g offer. Then its not as busted and Neimi can enter safely compared to others.
I've heard SS is the easiest, so I'm using this guide to build a bottoms tier team to make the game harder. Neimi, Colm, Marisa, the trainees and Styrene is my aim so far!
Also a sacred stones remake with higher difficulty, more gaidens, and keeping it well spirited to the traditional game would be amazing. Is never put it down.
I think Neimi is at least situational. She gets exclusive access to the Ballista right after recruitment, has an exclusive promo item, and promotes into a bootleg Paladin, and has an instant C support with Colm for extra power when she needs it most. It's moderate effort at most to get her off the ground, and turn her into better Forde. She's not great, but I don't think it's necessarily high effort to use her, in the way the rest of that tier is.
Archers get a lot of hate but honestly they have much of the same positives as a staff user. They don't siphon experience, only create more. If you decide to kill you can, but you can just as easily poke for free 10 exp just as healing or stealing would. Once the community sees them like a dancer or healer in terms of exp gain, they will shed their terrible combat paradigm. Not only this but their inability to fight back on enemy phase is actually a plus. Again thats experience for someone else and +1 for you. Many enemies have 2 range so you can easily bait them out with an archer to retaliate as well. In a game where you know exactly where the enemy can attack and move from, Archers and Snipers become much much better since you can control responses. As a result, archers, thieves, healers and dancers should all be seen as sort of a support unit, but most importantly none of these classes have to steal exp from anyone. Just setup kills or clean up something that needs attention. Bows being strong against flyers should honestly not be ignored. It comes in really handy and baiting several wyverns for easy cleanup and low risk of death is life saving. Rangers are great because of that extra move and you can always trade them their sword back as needed. I would have no doubt that Innes would be as beloved as Gerrick if he were a ranger. Anyway, when fielding an archer consider it like fielding less units which translates to your carries getting more experience like that of a dancer. Once this becomes the common way to look at Archers in older games you'll see their merit. Their inability to fight back will become their strength and its not like you can't abuse that element. You might never hit 20/20 just creating 10 exp for yourself out of thin air, but you can certainly hit level 10 promote into a mount and do whatever your team needs in the form of rescue drops and weakening units.
Revisiting FE8 and I have to say Duessel seems to fly under the radar for a lot of people. I think once he comes he's even more impactful than Seth. Inspired me to post a meme to reddit of just Duessel with 4 hand axes and an elixir with the title iyktyk lol. Are there any examples where the 8 move actually nets anything a 6 move unit can't? More often than not 8 move units if not partnered with other units who can keep up, have to slow down for everyone else. They can def use it to help things out with canto but mounted 6 and 7 units aren't restricted to that either. LTC purposes I'm sure paladins take it, but honestly I think GKs are very very underrated for ironman runs. + speed and axes, sign me up!
Why would Seth need to slow down for others? He can do everything on his own. Besides, Duessel's speed isn't really good enough for doubling many enemies.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I do agree that Duessel has issues with doubling, but his benefit is that he literally cannot die and he has access to the best weapon type in the game. With garm, he absolutely doubles everyone. Sometimes Seth does have to slow down if you want to actually train other units. Seth can also die on several maps if not paying attention. Duessel you can turn your brain off and he won't die.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I do agree. Ephraim route though Duessel gives him a run for his money. Seth is only better because of his availability. Duessel performs better, at least on Ephraim route, as soon as he joins.
Yeah this is another advantage to using Ross that I forgot to highlight in the pinned comment. You only get one Hero Crest before Ch14 in Eirika route and Gerik is always there to take it. In Ephraim route you get one in Ch10 that Gerik isn't around to use, so it wouldn't be as big of an issue there, unless you're using Joshua.
I remember playing fe 8 as a kid and thinking duessel was such a gigachad he singlehandedly shaped my idea of what was masculine for my entire early life
Mekkah, are you going to do Zero Percent Growths for FE8? It's surprisingly fun, especially Eirika route -- which definitely encourages you to play fast, as there are a bunch of maps which will overwhelm you if you dawdle.
Eirika's and Ephraim's promotions are some of the nuttiest in the series. Mount, 7 move, 16 and 17 mt prf weapons respectively, both of which give +5 str and are effective vs monsters. They'd honestly be right under Seth if the promos came faster.
You do have a point, there was one ironman route I lost legitimately everyone else and the twins slayed everything up to the final chapter. I ended up softlocked because their pref weapons ran out and I had no hammerne users alive lmfao.
I always would grind Seth to level 20 in chapter 5 to grind my healer of choice to 20 and promote them before chapter 6. Sometimes would grind a second unit (often time neimi if I was using her since orions bolt was in the next chapter). This game was my introduction to the series and the only one I played for years, having only found fe7 used at a games top once and my parents wouldn't buy it for me sadly.
Whats the logic behind having Ross in Good (Investment) but Garcia is only Okay? Garcia starts way ahead, and finishes roughly even with Ross based on your previous video comparing the two
I almost always use Natasha. Honestly haven't checked her growths, but I feel like she's always very speedy. And I generally don't use light magic too much, so only having a C or B at game is fine for me. I'd argue to put her in the Good tier, ultimately because she's a great waifu
Her speed growths is 40% the same as Moulder's, Her base speed is 8 to his 9, She gets one more speed on promotion to Bishop, so on average they come out even. Except when you account for Con and Item weight, which means she loses speed from every tome besides lightning, and Moulder only loses 1 speed from Divine, and 4 From Aura. Her magic on average is better at level 20, but who the heck is training a cleric to 20 before promotion at between 11- 17 exp a turn (17 for Unlock, 15 for torch). If promoting at 1 they average 7 magic. If Anything she should be in High Effort, as her starting staff rank is lower at D vs Moulder's C rank meaning He gets to good staffs much faster and can use Restore, Recover and Barrier at Base.
@@justinholland9136 Moulder is better than Natasha but that doesn't mean she isn't good haha. She gets mount access, her low con is actually a good thing on a mount as it gives her higher aid. All she will ever have to wield is D light magic unless you actually do want to train her to S. She'll do just fine with that to discourage attacks and suffer no speed penalties. Also I'm pretty sure 1 body ring on Moulder allows him to wield every tome in the game minus Dark tomes being outside of his access, without any speed detriment so the con numbers shared might be a bit off. Unless bishop has less con than sage which I can't recall. Sage bumps him to 10 con I'm pretty sure.
"He ruins everything", Mekkah on Seth talking about not just enemies but also the fun of Sacred Stones imo involving Seth Seth, Seth is too brainless strategy like Haar is where you can throw him at basically any situation and he'll be fine.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 A lockpick nobody actually needs. And his stats were actually roided up in localisation, so he is doubly an unnessesary second colm in that version. It is almost as pathetic as amelia in how little he actually contributes if colm isn't dead.
Definitely want to see the Tellius Games next, I cant emulate so I've never played any of the Japanese FE games and I played Shadow Dragon once and i really dont feel like going back
People have always slept on Kyle. He is absolutely the best cavalier. He can use brave weapons at no detriment as a great knight but can also just use steel sword at base which separates him from his cav pack. He becomes a bigger paladin than Seth, and only really struggles with speed which his con mitigates.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 actually that is how it works. Heavy weapons reduce speed. Con minimizes that penalty. Speed doesn't mitigate con the fuck lmao. High speed doesn't just make you have higher con. Take Lute for example. She's fairly fast but she's weighed down by every single tome until promotion in which case she can use fire without penalty to speed. I expect more from someone with a Kent profile.
Someone else who gets it lol. Duessel with hand axe, garm, elixir and pure water can solo the entire game by himself lmao. Like an angry attack helicopter. Shouldn't have messed with Grado because he's the true demon king.
I played FE8 several times in the past, and this list sure bring back memories :D. I did everything, speed run, grind run and anything in between. Here are my experiences that I can remember, from top to bottom of the videos: - Seth is very good, beat the game first time with him bulldoze everything - Gerik I vaguely remember him as average. In my game if Ranger Neimi beat him, if hero Garcia or Ross beat him - Saleh I remember as equal as Arthur, 1 play through I ran a squad of 4 Sages and wreck everything. Their attack and crit animation are still my favorite - Cormag I mistakenly kill him at first, later play through I did recruit him. As I remember, my version has the most HP of the whole team. - Vanessa and Tana I remember as very bad and need some grind to get strong. 1 run I tried this and achieve 4 flying dead balls, including Syrene (although I don't remember her much being strong or anything special). Later the squad become 5 with Myrrh - Franz I remember as second best best Paladin after Seth, later Amelia beat him to second places after I grinded her up. Same as above, I've tried 5 Paladins squad too, pretty fun bulldoze everything, with Seth as the tip of the spear head (no Orson don't count) - Moulder and Natasha: I remember a tremendous grind due they can only heal, but yeah, 3 bishops squad is fun as well, including Arthur :D (but not as fun as 4 sages) - Dozla I don't remember much about him, as I mainly use Ross x Gracia. In my game this duo out perform Dozla - Duessel same as Dozla, since I got a squad of Paladin, his slower speed can't catch up - Knoll same situation, since I got either good Bishops or Sages that completely leave him in the dust - Innes tied with Neimi as best Archer support. - Gilliam tied with Duessel for best defend/meat shield - Marisa tied with Joshua as best sword master/fanciest crit animation - Colm I remember 1 run using him as Assassin and completely wreck everything/proc silences kill constantly. I don't know the exact % but it look cool as hell Final thought after all that, without knowing anything, I seem to prefer very mobile unit, or unit with cool attack/crit animation.
Was curious if you'd done anything with the Sacred Trilogy hack for this game and if so, how it affects your assessments of these units? Probably not an especially easy question to answer, considering Sacred Trilogy includes skills, alternate promotions, and I think some altered growths.
Could you swap Duessel for Saleh for Ephraim route? (haven't watched the video yet, maybe you discuss this) Duessel can really help with the ghost ship, the hardest chapter in the game. Dozla I would put in okay/situational. He's super clunky, can't reach enemies most of the time, and when he does he has shaky hit and gets hit by everything. He feels like a really bad Hawkeye, similar to what you said. You mention putting Dozla on the mountains, but I've never found that helps that much--maybe safely stalling gargoyles is the best use of him that way, but that's the definition of situational. Paladin Kyle I would say is better than Dozla, but Kyle is down in ok/situational. Maybe L'Arachel to okay/situational, too. A six-move healer is at the very least OK/situational, I would think.
The problem with L’arachel is that you likely already have a 6 move healer in promoted Artur, so her utility doesn’t mean nearly as much as it otherwise would. Too bad Magvel horses are so stupid, or else she would have the niche of keeping up better with mounted units
@@Edgeperor I agree that Artur/Moulder are reasons L'Arachel is ignored, but if you're considering "evaluating a unit by their own merits", something Mekkah assumes as a methodological principle, L'Arachel remains a six-move mounted healer.
@@acephilosopher5146 on top of that Art actually requires that you sink experience into him for like a middling unit. Larachel gets her exp completely for free and you can spam barriers if you want to do it faster. She doesn't siphon from anyone. Its this reason that I have her and Natasha above both magicians.
Never knew L'Arachel and Rennac were not that great, usually they turn out really good in my team endgame as I support them and tend to be solid members Chap 15 and later.
L'Arachel has great stats if leveled it is just her join time is awful with how low her base level and weapon rank is. If she joined at like level 7-8 and with C staves peoole would have a much higher opinion. D staves is bad especially in Ephraim route where the chapter after her join chapter has status aliment staves and she can't use restore. Being a underleveled healer is rough in fe8 due to it being a short game that is generally can be played pretty fast. Edit: Rennac combat is meh as he is a foot locked sword user who will be outclassed by others but his combat is viable enough to take out monsters and grunts which is plenty for a utility character. At the very least he won't die on his way to the doors and chest and can snag some kills along the way.
Larachel gets a lot of flack but honestly its incredibly easy getting her to level 10 and she has a mount. The only really annoying thing about her is if she dies on the chapter she arrives. She is better than any mage class because of her staff rank imo. Everyone else starts D staves on promotion or less. As a result, Natasha and her should both be higher up. Restore is a run saver and physic access is lovely. Art and Lute are vastly overrated, slayer is worthless aside from meme content. Lute at least gets a mount but D staves is frustrating along with every single tome weighing her down aside from fire. Art suffers from low con as well and will need a body ring to properly wield S light or just have him become a worse Moulder or another Saleh. You can spend 2 body rings on Lute and she'll still only be able to wield Elfire without penalty. Moulder does this at base upon promotion. Sure she can make up for that with levels but Moulder doesn't even need it. He'll grow to level 10 for free without leeching from anyone just as Natasha and Larachel would. So you have to spam barriers a little more lol. Natasha and Larachel are at the perfect con to just use D light and stick with that all game so if they do get attacked they can do something. I tend to like having Moulder S rank Anima, Natasha S rank Light, Larachel S rank Staves and Knoll S rank Dark but honestly it takes investment to get them all there. D light at base promotion is all you need and Moulder C anima is plenty, I just like keeping my team alive with magic users since I typically ironman. I turn Knoll into Druid because he can use Thunder off rip which is one of the best tomes in the game imo. Though I do recognize summoner likely the better promotion, being absolutely amazing for free experience and the ability to draw attacks off units.
Interesting guide, Could you make a similar guide fro fire emblem blazing blade, with best supports fro each characters, and which characters to focus on
Can you please do one of these for Radiant Dawn? I've played the game a million times over on "Easy" but I want to try my hand at "Normal" and "Hard". The game is my favorite, so I have no qualms about sinking the hours into it to attempt this, but I really want to know which characters are the easiest and hardest to use in those modes as I have a habit of having all the characters at relatively equal levels at any given point in the game. The exceptions are Laura who I speed rush to level 20 so she can defend herself asap and Michiah who I make sure is level 20 by the end of Part 1: 10. The other reason I really want this is that I usually take the Dawn Brigade and a couple personal faves (Shinon, Oscar, Rolf, Soren, Tormod, Ilyanna, Ranulf, or Astrid) into endgame, but I've never tried doing it with any other character combo. The biggest reason I want this though is, though I don't mind sinking days worth of playtime into the game, due to how long the game is, it would be nice to know where to start to lessen the required time in order to get a good team for these runs.
Vanessa trade's Wyvern Knight's +4 con with a +5 HP with a +2 in both defenses for Falco Knight, while Wyvern Knight only gives her +3 HP and +1 in both defenses.
started with sacred stones, made an iron man run at easy and instantly lost Franz in chapter 1. And well, doing a run now at hard, and it happened me again -_-, I'm always using the christmas caveliers here I guess... But they always overkill one stat and the other just fells behind.
IMO while Neimi and Colm definitely aren’t some of the best units in the game, I usually find that their wicked fast support greatly benefits them both, giving each other attack and tons of crit. Through early Eirika mode they get some use since I use always use Ross and Franz over Gilliam and Garcia and getting the Orion’s Bolt in Chapter 6 definitely makes Neimi a lot usable.
Funny thing about neimi is that if you mod bows to be 1-2 range she's basically another lute. I've heard the claim that making bows 1-2 would be massively op in gba FE, but when you run the numbers and compare them to mages they're basically the same. More damage, but def is higher than res so it evens out. No staffs either.
They get good support bonuses, but then again, neither are all that good at combat to begin with and their performance with supports can often be replicated by another character without them.
Archers get a lot of hate but honestly they have much of the same positives as a staff user. They don't siphon experience, only create more. If you decide to kill you can, but you can just as easily poke for free 10 exp just as healing or stealing would. Once the community sees them like a dancer or healer in terms of exp gain, they will shed their terrible combat paradigm. Not only this but their inability to fight back on enemy phase is actually a plus. Again thats experience for someone else and +1 for you. Many enemies have 2 range so you can easily bait them out with an archer to retaliate as well. In a game where you know exactly where the enemy can attack and move from, Archers and Snipers become much much better since you can control responses. As a result Archers thieves healers and dancers should all be seen as sort of a support unit, but most importantly none of these classes have to steal exp from anyone. Just setup kills or clean up something that needs attention. Bows being strong against flyers should honestly not be ignored. It comes in really handy and baiting several wyverns for easy cleanup and low risk of death is life saving. Rangers are great because of that extra move and you can always trade them their sword back as needed. I would have no doubt that Innes would be as beloved as Gerrick if he were a ranger. Anyway, when fielding an archer consider it like fielding less units which translates to your carries getting more experience. Once this becomes the common way to look at Archers in older games you'll see their merit. Their inability to fight back will become their strength and its not like you can't abuse that element.
Amazing tier list ! Just kidding, I think a character guide for Radiant Dawn would be the most interesting option after you finished your current playthrough because in that game even if a character is low or in the middle on a tier list, you can still (and sometimes should) use them, especially part 2 characters.
WRT Ross vs Garcia: while I think they have similar stats in the mid to lategame, Ross still has waterwalking and the +15 crit over Garcia, which gives him a niche that no one on your team other than Dozla is offering. For his combat alone Garcia usually isn't really doing a whole lot past Ch14, although I wouldn't say he's bad or anything. But I can see putting them both in Okay or Good investment depending on what your opinion is. Garcia is definitely the best long term unit in Okay along with Kyle. Fuck Forde.
Either way, let's make it clear once again that literally every unit in this game is viable in some shape or form.
And that's why Ross is the Boss
I find that Ross can range anywhere from mediocre to great depending entirely on how his speed growth turns out. If he gets very little speed then I tend to end up using Garcia instead. Average speed Ross get used for water-walking and is generally a decent Pirate/Berserker, but speed-blessed Ross is where the fun starts. Speed-blessed Ross is an unholy terror that one-rounds half of the game, and is stupidly powerful with a Killer Axe or Garm. I really wish Ross had ~10% higher speed growth so that he'd be that unholy terror every playthrough.
@@fadeemblem7665 Yeah my first Ross turned out that way with good speed and so years later when I saw tier lists, I was absolutely amazed how low down he was. In my first playthrough he was my MVP.
i know I am quite off topic but do anyone know a good place to stream new series online ?
@Winston Tripp flixportal xD
Forde doesn't have a bottom tier all to himself? Who are you and what have you done to Mekkah?
Orson is good ?
Idk man, I heard he falls off pretty hard after chapter 16
He starts strong, but Chapter 8 is when he starts to go downhill.
His support with his wife is kinda hilarious tho ngl
@@BeastMaster-gc5zg Orson's wife plays on Casual mode. She retreats
@@BeastMaster-gc5zg Still a better love story than Twilight.
Chapter 16? Thats ridiculously generous, he's unusable after 5x
5:16 - Seth
6:18 - Tethys
8:14 - Gerik
9:22 - Saleh
10:23 - Cormag
12:31 - Franz
13:53 - Vanessa
15:17 - Moulder
16:29 - Ross
18:13 - Artur
19:14 - Lute
21:35 - Ephraim
22:44 - Tana
23:40 - Myrrh
25:52 - Dozla
27:24 - Duessel
29:06 - Knoll
30:36 - Innes
31:46 - Orson
32:36 - Kyle & Forde
34:21 - Eirika
36:02 - Gilliam
37:52 - Garcia
39:39 - Natasha
41:16 - Joshua
43:21 - Syrene
44:29 - Neimi
45:35 - Amelia
47:23 - Marisa
47:56 - L'Arachel
49:12 - Ewan
I´ve been thinking about possible party compositions for FE 8 and these timestamps have helped me a lot, thank you.
Your prof pic... that eye... it feels like I've seen it before
@@otherevan296 we're in the comments of a FE vid so i'm guessing you definitely have :)
I would say Garcia belongs in Good (Investment) simply because he’s an axe user with a great Speed-boosting promotion in a game where lances dominate. He doesn’t start off amazing, but he’s generally easier to use than his son and has similar payoff.
I would be okay with saying Garica is okay tier if Ross wasn't in good with investment like eh....what. He is literally just Garica if he started off weak as crap with pirate route class option in exchange.
He does his job as only viable axe user (sorry Ross and GK!Forde/kyle) well in the early game until you Gerik/Duessel. Never used him past that point though.
Yeah, garcia is too low.
I think Garcia and Ross's combat mid-late are fairly equivalent, but also somewhat unimpressive. But I really like Ross's unique peak walk utility in some chapters, and the crit makes up for a lot of the shortcomings.
@@Mekkkah I don’t entirely disagree - Ross has those advantages later on. I still think that Garcia’s distinctly better earlygame and having not that much worse lategame potential is worth enough to keep him relevant, generally. Of course, that depends on the amount of investment for Ross or Garcia.
Ooh, Sacred Stones is one of the FE games I know the best but I still love me some character guides. I always learn something when I hear other people’s reasonings for liking/not liking certain units.
Love the use of Golden Sun music in the background. Hidden gem on the GBA for sure.
Kolima forest !!!!
Yeah, the Golden Sun series is a definite gem
Keeping up the trend of using Golden Sun music, i'm all for it :3
@ Mekkah
This is an excellent way to quickly present the usefulness of units at a glance. It's beautiful in its simplicity and is easily understandable at even the slightest of glances [minus no names, but that's an acceptable sacrifice since you were using a tier list maker]
Love this presentation. Keep up the excellent work
Is Golden Sun what I hear?
I see you are a man of culture as well, Mekkah 😎👌🏻💯
I'm never having a run where I dont use Joshua, swordmaster go brrr
But what about Assassin Marisa and her pretty purple and pink sprite?
@@Starwars-Fanboy Assassin Marisa is pointless, she doesn’t even have a unique sprite
@@Starwars-Fanboy I really like marisa in general but she comes so late and at such a low level it’s annoying.
@@covershopkid also it always feels like too much of a pain in the ass to recuit her in either path too, in both situations she's surrounded by pretty average level enemies, so its difficult to bait her out efficiently, and even then she's barely worth the effort of doing it because again she's much lower level
Who doesn't like Eirika Route's Joshua vs Caellach
Me: uses colm as my main offensive unit for the entire play through
Wait how 🤣 but I can't talk I used neimi...
@@jacobspencer3399 if you dump everything into him and don’t go assassin it’s pretty good with killing edges lol
@@VG_Yugi time to do a colm solo 😏
@@jacobspencer3399 that’s basically what I’m doing lmao
I actually love colm as an assassin sometimes over Joshua.
At one point I pulled up a spreadsheet of everybody's growths and compared Seth to the other three cavs. Seth not only has better bases, and better weapon ranks as a pre-promote, he also has better growths than the other three. Seth's bases are so good he can be thrown in to chapter 19 untrained and easily hold his own, which is already nuts, but also just happens to have growths good enough to make him outpace every other unit you get in the game. I think he's the most brainless unit in the history of the franchise. If you aren't using Seth you're making the game actively harder for yourself.
These guides are so much more useful than most tier lists I've come across. Those tend to lack good explanations for characters, especially once you get to the lower end of the list. I often walk away from those with the what but not the why. Your guides, on the other hand, take the time to explain the usecase for each character regardless of when they join or how good they are. For someone without much hard mode experience, the why is really what matters since it allows me to take the information and make my own decisions. Thanks to your guides, I'm really looking forward to giving hard mode a shot for the GBA games now.
One bit of feedback: For the investment grouping (not Good Investment, the other one), I think it'd be worth the time to spend a little more focus on the payoff. If you were to invest in this character, what's the return? How well do they pay you off? You talk about it in a general sense for the whole group, but something a bit specific for each character would help.
back at it again with the strousy gold golden sun ost's, DAMN MEKKAH
I feed my Franz chapter 5 and he just kills things now. Accurate guide.
Just wait until you beat 7, he becomes even better
I swear he has stats to solo late game by the time I’m finished with early game LMAO
As of the final chapter, Franz is a strength capped paladin. (I also accidentally s-ranked swords.)
@@Marathon.52 that is good because auldhuma>vidofnir
in my most recent playthrough i was letting everyone get at least a few levels to see how rng would treat them, and my neimi just happened to have her first three levels all be either perfect or near-perfect. so naturally i made her a permanent member of the team, made her a sniper with a rank support w/ assassin colm, and they ended up being one of the most lethal pairs on my team. just goes to show that even a bad character (read: an archer) can be awesome, given sufficient divine mandate
Been playing with Ranger Neimi, and something I find fun to do is to aggro enemies who can do 1 range damage with Neimi with a bow equipped. If the enemies decide to prioritize Neimi due to her lack of 1 range, it's basically a free kill for anyone else during player phase
FE8 Tier List
1st. Seth
2nd. Potential second move for Seth
3rd. Who cares.
I can't wait for the TearRing Saga character guide.
Billford: No Brainer
@@typhooncarter Zieg: He has amazing base stats, great growths, can use Devil weapons without backfire, and zips across the map. What more can you ask for? Stuff all of your best resources into him, your best weapons and stat boosters and everything.
Sasha : Good investment
Raffin : No brainer
Rennie : Good Investment
Great Video, loving the Golden Sun OST in the background..
a man of gba culture.
This is a great guide! I have sacred stones in my backlog, so when I play it I’ll come and consult this again, thanks! I always love watching your videos :D
Great guide! Sacred stones is the game I started with, way back when it came out. I played it enough times to actually get all the support conversations across my playthroughs. I made an effort to use every unit at least once as a significant fighter on my army and I can say I certainly agree with your assessments, even if my style of play would push Gilliam up the ranks.
One thing I've wanted to ask since I started the channel, could you do a guide for how to get into playing the older games? I'm sure forum posts and such are out there, but you always explain things so well that I feel like it'd help me (and hopefully others) access that part of Fire Emblem history.
6:10 "Seth can easily solo the game but I wouldn't recommend it for your first playthrough"
This in a nutshell. I did a run with Seth only and the hardest thing about it was trying to figure out how to get Ephraim to avoid seeing combat. Even in chapters where there was no other way, a practically base-level Ephraim did well enough. Hardest thing about Seth solo is keeping your inventory stocked (and those stupid gorgons in Chapter 19), though just because it's relatively easy (with game knowledge) doesn't mean it's the best way to play.
Overall I agree with the character categories. My favorite "bad" units to use in SS are Colm and Neimi because their super fast Fire affinity support gives Colm the ability to actually deal damage with his near-guaranteed doubling, and once Neimi hits Ranger she can do quite a bit of good. Still nowhere near broken units, but they make me feel like I'm playing a regular FE game and not one where all my units are immortal gods.
Awww yeah, been waiting for this one
Yay, Mekkah talking about Fire Emblem for 50 minutes
I love these videos
In maps with fog of war, I find Torch staves and Thieves/Assassins/Rogues practically mandatory takes. Combined with Snipers and/or magi for potshots against enemies and cavalry to sweep anyone left, and the whole Recon/Fire/Maneuver is exceptionally good.
imo Duessel is No Brainer specially on Ephraim route, he's pretty much Seth with less movement but combat wise he never falls off, and he's easily able to S rank axe which makes him my Garm wielder most of the time.
and depending on the definition, Ephraim could possibly be on Good (No Investment), yeah if you don't train him and then start using him on the later chapter then he might be just ok (I think he might still be able to kill Cavs and Armors even then), but if you use him immediately he's good to go, his Prf weapon one shots those who are super effective, and even those that aren't can still be 2-4 shot (so ~1-2 rounds). So you don't really "invest" in him at the start, he's a beast immediately, and then because of that he easily snowballs into a growth unit, so I don't really feel like I'm "investing" in him, I'm just using him normally and he just scales naturally. Contrast that with someone like Lute where you actually have to "invest" by setting up kills for her until she can snowball by herself. Again this depends on the definition, but for the definition I have in my mind then Ephraim is "No Investment".
My combat trinity usually becomes Seth, Duessel, Ephraim (in that order from best to worst) while everyone else is support for these 3.
My hot take is that Duessel on Ephraim route is superior to Seth. Seth makes maps easier sure but there is not a single map bar the one you get Duessel in where he's necessary and you can get that done with promoted Franz. Once Dussel is obtained he can basically solo the entire game with 4 hand axes and an elixir, he can solo carry ghost ship, Seth can actually die on that map.
What is with all the spam accounts these days spamming the lip emoji? They have been appearing more often on my videos as well. >:(
It's just RUclips and it's shitty security. Just report them.
That beautiful Golden sun music in the background :D
*Insert music compliment*
Absolutely love these character guides. Genealogy would be cool especially with the substitutes
I'm replaying Sacred Stones so this came out at a very convenient time
Same
You know when I first went into sacred stones I though L’a Rachel was going to be a really good unit since I heard she’s basically a pseudo lord, but man, I will never understand why they thought putting unit relatively late into the game at such a low base level whose only way to gain exp is with an awful staff exp formula was a good idea.
It terms of changes I’d make, I think I’d put Duessel in No Brainer because he’s Seth 2 on Ephiriam route and even when the routes converge he can still out in work thanks to excellent weapon ranks. Like I love Dozla to death but I’ll admit he doesn’t hold up nearly as well overtime compared to Duessel. Otherwise I agree with everything other than Garcia & Ross being in seperate tiers (I’d argue Garcia’s decent early game performance & Ross’ access to berserker are equal advantages) but I think you’ve heard enough about that judging by the comments.
Probably figured you had skirmishes so just take her to a fog of war one and abuse torch staff.
I've literally started replaying Golden Sun because of all this music, Mekkah. x_x
Ironically my colm and Gilliam were my best units colm had capped speed 28 luck 13 defense and 19 strength at max level and Gilliam was just really good for some reason don’t really know why he just turned out good I guess
It's funny, Forde actually has been the one of the better horse riders of my team. He always finds a way to out-pace Kyle and even Franz in some situations.
Golden Sun’s music brings me such memories 😁
Just started an ironman run and trying to figure out which units to prioritize. Thanks for the guide!
A video about the first fe game I ever played! Nice! I feel like this way of talking about units is way more useful (at least for me) than a standard tier list,
man you're making me wanna play fe8 for the 474858th time
Golden Sun music, perfection
Seth: Cool not old man design, doesn't fall off, LTC friendly, energy star approved
I got a covid positive test and two weeks to kill so I was just about to spank the GBA Fire Emblems for fun. I was planning to use only units I never use for flavor. It was interesting to see where they fell here. (I never use Joshua but I always use Natasha).
I’m in the middle of a run and ephram is STUPID, higher def, Srength, speed, skill, then SETH
great video
Im going on my first ever hard mode run and for obvious reasons chose Sacred Stones, also my first Ironman. dont know exactly what happened but I just got so fucked so early on the game, Im currently on chapter 17 and I spent most of the run with only Seth and Franz as reliable combat units. luckily I got really RNG blessed with Franz and he's on par with Seth for most of the game, maybe even better at times
but seriously, totally fucked, spent half the game with no healers before I could promote Lute. when I got Gerik I was so relieved and I remembered your advice of promoting him the second you get him, but decided to give him juuust a few level ups before promotion and then the pegasus knight killed him. I almost cried, it was beautiful. thats what this game is all about
just wanted to share it with someone. godspeed Mekkah!
I love how much golden sun music you use man
Imagine not putting Knoll in Knoll Brainer. smh.
“I’ll try not to say tier”
Literally two seconds later
“This is not an ordered tier”
I'm seriously amazed that you didn't put Vanessa/Franz in No Brainer given how highly you valued them in the draft race. I'm not saying I disagree with their placement though, not at all.
If Gerik belongs in No Brainer, I think Ephraim also belongs in No Brainer, great bases, great growths, phenomenal personal weapons, mount upon promotion. Without even trying I recently did a run where Hero Gerik was my darling for clearing out large amounts of enemies until I realised that Ephraim was actually tankier than him without me giving him any preferential treatment whatsoever. And this was Eirika route.
In draft races Vanessa and Franz are different. The fact that those play out on Normal Mode alone is a big difference, but also the difference between playing a race and just playing casually by itself is a differentiating factor. I think Vanessa and Franz are amazing but there's no doubt that they take investment. They are worth that investment, of course, but they require more than the No Brainers, especially Seth.
I considered putting Ephraim in No Brainer. He probably is on Ephraim route, though again, he does take some investment to keep up. If you're playing on Eirika route he needs less investment since he autolevels so funnily enough you could consider him better on that one.
@@Mekkkah That's a fair conclusion. I always imagine "investment" to mean they need to be fed kills, which I never have to do with Franz. Obviously if you don't use him he does need to be fed kills, but he's usable right out the box, as is Vanessa to a degree (maybe a few kills due to her bad base strength). However you are absolutely right, the difference between Franz and Seth is worthy of a difference in placement.
Yess I've been waiting for this, please keep doing this for every game!
Haven’t finished the vid but Duessel seems like a complete no brainer for me. Seems much closer to Saleh in this context than he is to the rest in “good no investment “.
Here is something I have been grappling with for years: how much better would Innes be if he was a ranger instead of sniper? More precisely, would it be enough to make him worth using into endgame to deal with some of the fliers
Yes. Sniper is a worthless class, and if Innes wasn’t stuck in it, he’d be so much better
@@umafadinhaconsciente "Late" father? Hayden does not die in Sacred Stones.
Innes deserved his own class that had lances and bows. It would fit his desire to rival ephraim, and also make him somewhat viable while keeping his incredible bow skills intact.
Innes would be quite good, his bases are actually on the higher side to being with and would likely be a staple in a lot of playthroughs.
Innes is very viable in zero percent growths, he's one of the few characters who can deal with gargoyles/deathgoyles and will reliably oneshot the Mogalls/Arch Mogalls well into the endgame. Yeah, he's not really good in a game with growths because lol archers, but in a mode where you have to take it slower he steps up to the plate.
Mekkah's character guide drinking game. Take a shot every time he says tier list
Forde as ok huh .... that's high praise coming from you
Use whoever because the game only has about 4 challenging maps.
Mekkah. I know everyone has a boner for movement but you REALLY can't get away with putting Duessel not in the no brainer tier. He's like Oswin but with movement, the man is unkillable. SEVENTEEN DEFENSE AND STRENGTH, A RANK IN ALL WEAPONS
HUUGE BONUSES
With A rank axes, Garm isn't a possibility, it's just fact, and with Garm (and even without garm) he ain't falling off
My hot take is that Dussel is even more broken than Seth lol. As much as people say you can throw Seth into a horde of enemies and he'll be fine, its just not true.
Early game perhaps but once mid game comes around you do have to consider turning on your brain. In fact after you get Duessel on Ephraim route, which is where I consider mid game to start, you head to the ghost ship and Seth can actually die on that map. He also doesn't exterminate the boss right away which is dangerous.
You know who doesn't die no matter how hard you try to kill him? Duessel. Give him 4 hand axes and an elixir and he'll solo carry ghost ship like an angry attack helicopter. Only Myrr can really compete with him and that's after she's fed.
Give him 3 hand axes, a pure water, and elixir at all times and he'll solo the entire game. Give him Garm and not even women and children are safe.
Duessel pretty much solves every single chapter after joining by himself, you don't need anything else. Seth can do this but axe > lances / swords and hes not as strong or tanky so you will have to consider a couple times whether or not it is a good idea to send Seth in against all those warriors.
Duessel frankly gives 0 fucks and if he died it was because we ran out of hand axes to retaliate with or you didn't bother to top him off with his elixir or drink any pure waters.
I don't see how Ross is good with investment while Garica is okay when a trained Ross ends up with pretty much with the same performance if trained. Only thing he has over Garica is berserker route option but that requires the ocean seal which both sells for good cash and could be used on colm for a second rogue.
+15crit is a better contribution to the team than the second rogue, so eh.
Peak and water walking is way better than a 2nd thief. Peak access in particular means that ross can use his High bulk, crit and high power much more efficiently, something that only Dozla can brag about as well.
@@lpfan4491 I mean is it really though? Promoted axe users should be 1RK most enemies they have any business fighting anyway. Like if Ross was a lvl1 pirate at base I would agree but having to dump 18 levels into a character to even early promote into beserker is waaay to much effort for a 15% crit chance I ideally shouldn't need most of the time if ever.
Edit: Also promoting Colm means I don't have to waste a slot taking L'rachel to Ephraim chp 14 and can just stab him instead for exp.
@@boredomkiller99 Or you go without a rogue. Rennac is straight useless unless colm is dead and you want to avoid bad RNG. Because he can only steal a dracoshield and get the deserttreasures....the second one is doable by anyone and the first one is doable by colm. Rogue is not even that much of an upgrade.
@@lpfan4491 not needing lockpicks is nice and saves inventory space or chest keys or door key is also cool so I can throw weapons and item on my combat units.
i mean truth is the best use of the ocean seal normally is to sell it anyways though I would still use it on Colm before Ross because I ain't got time to raise a scrub axe user 18+ levels that turns out only fairly decent at best in a game that has good axe users.
Putting "Not a Tier list" in at this point feels like some kind of weird 2009 internet argument
Because its not a tier list lol
Seth is viable in endgame for Zero Percent Growths. Not the best character (those would be Duessel, Gerik, and Knoll) but that just goes to show how busted he is.
In my most recent playthrough my forde got extremely blessed and franz got extremely screwed which was kinda of funny.
Yoooo that golden sun ost threw me back hard
Ayyy, been waiting for this
Fe9 would be cool
The thing with Neimi, is that she is an archer who can *safely go into the arena, because she can only fight mages, shamans, and archers (they don't send monks at you for some odd reason). Her growths keep pace in the arena generally, especially her luck so she CAN'T get killed by a crit in case you need to withdraw with her. Also, you are quick to get the orions bolt to immediately upgrade her for swords and a mount.
I don't think arena grinding should be considered in any way when rating units since pretty much any character is good if you take your time to grind them, even if grinding with some units is easier than others.
Great unique aspect to Neimi here to be honest. Sure the guy saying anyone can be power leveled in arena but gra8 is saying she can do it safely and gets her promo item right after.
Arena does make units very powerful but I'd make it into an ironman rule, if you click into arena you must enter it, which would make it terrifying instead of just pulling back and waiting for 700g offer.
Then its not as busted and Neimi can enter safely compared to others.
I'm playing scared stone now.
I've heard SS is the easiest, so I'm using this guide to build a bottoms tier team to make the game harder. Neimi, Colm, Marisa, the trainees and Styrene is my aim so far!
Nice job doing a fire emblem video uaing Golden Sun Ost
I cannot think of a time where Ephraim is not my strongest combat unit by promotion time. He is way too good.
Also a sacred stones remake with higher difficulty, more gaidens, and keeping it well spirited to the traditional game would be amazing. Is never put it down.
Sacred Stones Remake!
I think Neimi is at least situational. She gets exclusive access to the Ballista right after recruitment, has an exclusive promo item, and promotes into a bootleg Paladin, and has an instant C support with Colm for extra power when she needs it most.
It's moderate effort at most to get her off the ground, and turn her into better Forde.
She's not great, but I don't think it's necessarily high effort to use her, in the way the rest of that tier is.
Archers get a lot of hate but honestly they have much of the same positives as a staff user. They don't siphon experience, only create more.
If you decide to kill you can, but you can just as easily poke for free 10 exp just as healing or stealing would. Once the community sees them like a dancer or healer in terms of exp gain, they will shed their terrible combat paradigm.
Not only this but their inability to fight back on enemy phase is actually a plus. Again thats experience for someone else and +1 for you. Many enemies have 2 range so you can easily bait them out with an archer to retaliate as well. In a game where you know exactly where the enemy can attack and move from, Archers and Snipers become much much better since you can control responses.
As a result, archers, thieves, healers and dancers should all be seen as sort of a support unit, but most importantly none of these classes have to steal exp from anyone. Just setup kills or clean up something that needs attention.
Bows being strong against flyers should honestly not be ignored. It comes in really handy and baiting several wyverns for easy cleanup and low risk of death is life saving.
Rangers are great because of that extra move and you can always trade them their sword back as needed. I would have no doubt that Innes would be as beloved as Gerrick if he were a ranger.
Anyway, when fielding an archer consider it like fielding less units which translates to your carries getting more experience like that of a dancer.
Once this becomes the common way to look at Archers in older games you'll see their merit. Their inability to fight back will become their strength and its not like you can't abuse that element.
You might never hit 20/20 just creating 10 exp for yourself out of thin air, but you can certainly hit level 10 promote into a mount and do whatever your team needs in the form of rescue drops and weakening units.
Revisiting FE8 and I have to say Duessel seems to fly under the radar for a lot of people. I think once he comes he's even more impactful than Seth.
Inspired me to post a meme to reddit of just Duessel with 4 hand axes and an elixir with the title iyktyk lol.
Are there any examples where the 8 move actually nets anything a 6 move unit can't? More often than not 8 move units if not partnered with other units who can keep up, have to slow down for everyone else. They can def use it to help things out with canto but mounted 6 and 7 units aren't restricted to that either.
LTC purposes I'm sure paladins take it, but honestly I think GKs are very very underrated for ironman runs. + speed and axes, sign me up!
Why would Seth need to slow down for others? He can do everything on his own. Besides, Duessel's speed isn't really good enough for doubling many enemies.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I do agree that Duessel has issues with doubling, but his benefit is that he literally cannot die and he has access to the best weapon type in the game. With garm, he absolutely doubles everyone. Sometimes Seth does have to slow down if you want to actually train other units. Seth can also die on several maps if not paying attention. Duessel you can turn your brain off and he won't die.
@@ThatGuyThai true I guess, but Seth is still better
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I do agree. Ephraim route though Duessel gives him a run for his money. Seth is only better because of his availability. Duessel performs better, at least on Ephraim route, as soon as he joins.
On the people upset over Garcia/Ross... one uses a hero crest, the other doesn't.
Yeah this is another advantage to using Ross that I forgot to highlight in the pinned comment. You only get one Hero Crest before Ch14 in Eirika route and Gerik is always there to take it. In Ephraim route you get one in Ch10 that Gerik isn't around to use, so it wouldn't be as big of an issue there, unless you're using Joshua.
I remember playing fe 8 as a kid and thinking duessel was such a gigachad he singlehandedly shaped my idea of what was masculine for my entire early life
Awww man that Golden Sun music
Mekkah, are you going to do Zero Percent Growths for FE8? It's surprisingly fun, especially Eirika route -- which definitely encourages you to play fast, as there are a bunch of maps which will overwhelm you if you dawdle.
Eirika's and Ephraim's promotions are some of the nuttiest in the series. Mount, 7 move, 16 and 17 mt prf weapons respectively, both of which give +5 str and are effective vs monsters. They'd honestly be right under Seth if the promos came faster.
I dont think anything erika could get on promo would make her right below seth. She needs her start to be fixed up.
You do have a point, there was one ironman route I lost legitimately everyone else and the twins slayed everything up to the final chapter. I ended up softlocked because their pref weapons ran out and I had no hammerne users alive lmfao.
I always would grind Seth to level 20 in chapter 5 to grind my healer of choice to 20 and promote them before chapter 6. Sometimes would grind a second unit (often time neimi if I was using her since orions bolt was in the next chapter). This game was my introduction to the series and the only one I played for years, having only found fe7 used at a games top once and my parents wouldn't buy it for me sadly.
Whats the logic behind having Ross in Good (Investment) but Garcia is only Okay? Garcia starts way ahead, and finishes roughly even with Ross based on your previous video comparing the two
Fun story, my Franz did not level Str at all until he reached level 20. And then I benched him.
I almost always use Natasha. Honestly haven't checked her growths, but I feel like she's always very speedy. And I generally don't use light magic too much, so only having a C or B at game is fine for me. I'd argue to put her in the Good tier, ultimately because she's a great waifu
Her speed growths is 40% the same as Moulder's, Her base speed is 8 to his 9, She gets one more speed on promotion to Bishop, so on average they come out even. Except when you account for Con and Item weight, which means she loses speed from every tome besides lightning, and Moulder only loses 1 speed from Divine, and 4 From Aura. Her magic on average is better at level 20, but who the heck is training a cleric to 20 before promotion at between 11- 17 exp a turn (17 for Unlock, 15 for torch). If promoting at 1 they average 7 magic.
If Anything she should be in High Effort, as her starting staff rank is lower at D vs Moulder's C rank meaning He gets to good staffs much faster and can use Restore, Recover and Barrier at Base.
@@justinholland9136 Moulder is better than Natasha but that doesn't mean she isn't good haha. She gets mount access, her low con is actually a good thing on a mount as it gives her higher aid.
All she will ever have to wield is D light magic unless you actually do want to train her to S. She'll do just fine with that to discourage attacks and suffer no speed penalties.
Also I'm pretty sure 1 body ring on Moulder allows him to wield every tome in the game minus Dark tomes being outside of his access, without any speed detriment so the con numbers shared might be a bit off. Unless bishop has less con than sage which I can't recall. Sage bumps him to 10 con I'm pretty sure.
I know my opinion is wrong, but Knoll is my favorite unit to use in this game. I really enjoy and love him as a Druid.
I dunno, I prefer Summoner for the early DISTRACTION PHANTOM.
"He ruins everything", Mekkah on Seth talking about not just enemies but also the fun of Sacred Stones imo involving Seth Seth, Seth is too brainless strategy like Haar is where you can throw him at basically any situation and he'll be fine.
I think there should be an extra category for japanese rennac. Just to disrespect how useless he actually is.
He's still a 6 move lockpick
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 A lockpick nobody actually needs. And his stats were actually roided up in localisation, so he is doubly an unnessesary second colm in that version. It is almost as pathetic as amelia in how little he actually contributes if colm isn't dead.
Definitely want to see the Tellius Games next, I cant emulate so I've never played any of the Japanese FE games and I played Shadow Dragon once and i really dont feel like going back
This game has many hot guys and they are strong. Gerik, seth, cormag, moulder, innes, saleh, franz, ephraim, FORDE
I’d put Kyle back in good with investment, by the time I promoted him to Paladin he was an absolute monster who could one shot
People have always slept on Kyle. He is absolutely the best cavalier. He can use brave weapons at no detriment as a great knight but can also just use steel sword at base which separates him from his cav pack. He becomes a bigger paladin than Seth, and only really struggles with speed which his con mitigates.
@@ThatGuyThai that's not how it works. Speed mitigates con, not the other way around.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 actually that is how it works. Heavy weapons reduce speed. Con minimizes that penalty. Speed doesn't mitigate con the fuck lmao. High speed doesn't just make you have higher con. Take Lute for example. She's fairly fast but she's weighed down by every single tome until promotion in which case she can use fire without penalty to speed. I expect more from someone with a Kent profile.
When I did the ghost ship in ephraims route I just had duessel run in with a hand axe and watched him take down the whole army
@@umafadinhaconsciente I have yet to play the Eirika route so I don't know
Someone else who gets it lol. Duessel with hand axe, garm, elixir and pure water can solo the entire game by himself lmao. Like an angry attack helicopter. Shouldn't have messed with Grado because he's the true demon king.
I played FE8 several times in the past, and this list sure bring back memories :D. I did everything, speed run, grind run and anything in between. Here are my experiences that I can remember, from top to bottom of the videos:
- Seth is very good, beat the game first time with him bulldoze everything
- Gerik I vaguely remember him as average. In my game if Ranger Neimi beat him, if hero Garcia or Ross beat him
- Saleh I remember as equal as Arthur, 1 play through I ran a squad of 4 Sages and wreck everything. Their attack and crit animation are still my favorite
- Cormag I mistakenly kill him at first, later play through I did recruit him. As I remember, my version has the most HP of the whole team.
- Vanessa and Tana I remember as very bad and need some grind to get strong. 1 run I tried this and achieve 4 flying dead balls, including Syrene (although I don't remember her much being strong or anything special). Later the squad become 5 with Myrrh
- Franz I remember as second best best Paladin after Seth, later Amelia beat him to second places after I grinded her up. Same as above, I've tried 5 Paladins squad too, pretty fun bulldoze everything, with Seth as the tip of the spear head (no Orson don't count)
- Moulder and Natasha: I remember a tremendous grind due they can only heal, but yeah, 3 bishops squad is fun as well, including Arthur :D (but not as fun as 4 sages)
- Dozla I don't remember much about him, as I mainly use Ross x Gracia. In my game this duo out perform Dozla
- Duessel same as Dozla, since I got a squad of Paladin, his slower speed can't catch up
- Knoll same situation, since I got either good Bishops or Sages that completely leave him in the dust
- Innes tied with Neimi as best Archer support.
- Gilliam tied with Duessel for best defend/meat shield
- Marisa tied with Joshua as best sword master/fanciest crit animation
- Colm I remember 1 run using him as Assassin and completely wreck everything/proc silences kill constantly. I don't know the exact % but it look cool as hell
Final thought after all that, without knowing anything, I seem to prefer very mobile unit, or unit with cool attack/crit animation.
Was curious if you'd done anything with the Sacred Trilogy hack for this game and if so, how it affects your assessments of these units? Probably not an especially easy question to answer, considering Sacred Trilogy includes skills, alternate promotions, and I think some altered growths.
Could you swap Duessel for Saleh for Ephraim route? (haven't watched the video yet, maybe you discuss this) Duessel can really help with the ghost ship, the hardest chapter in the game.
Dozla I would put in okay/situational. He's super clunky, can't reach enemies most of the time, and when he does he has shaky hit and gets hit by everything. He feels like a really bad Hawkeye, similar to what you said. You mention putting Dozla on the mountains, but I've never found that helps that much--maybe safely stalling gargoyles is the best use of him that way, but that's the definition of situational. Paladin Kyle I would say is better than Dozla, but Kyle is down in ok/situational.
Maybe L'Arachel to okay/situational, too. A six-move healer is at the very least OK/situational, I would think.
The problem with L’arachel is that you likely already have a 6 move healer in promoted Artur, so her utility doesn’t mean nearly as much as it otherwise would. Too bad Magvel horses are so stupid, or else she would have the niche of keeping up better with mounted units
@@Edgeperor I agree that Artur/Moulder are reasons L'Arachel is ignored, but if you're considering "evaluating a unit by their own merits", something Mekkah assumes as a methodological principle, L'Arachel remains a six-move mounted healer.
@@acephilosopher5146 on top of that Art actually requires that you sink experience into him for like a middling unit. Larachel gets her exp completely for free and you can spam barriers if you want to do it faster. She doesn't siphon from anyone. Its this reason that I have her and Natasha above both magicians.
Never knew L'Arachel and Rennac were not that great, usually they turn out really good in my team endgame as I support them and tend to be solid members Chap 15 and later.
L'Arachel has great stats if leveled it is just her join time is awful with how low her base level and weapon rank is. If she joined at like level 7-8 and with C staves peoole would have a much higher opinion. D staves is bad especially in Ephraim route where the chapter after her join chapter has status aliment staves and she can't use restore. Being a underleveled healer is rough in fe8 due to it being a short game that is generally can be played pretty fast.
Edit: Rennac combat is meh as he is a foot locked sword user who will be outclassed by others but his combat is viable enough to take out monsters and grunts which is plenty for a utility character. At the very least he won't die on his way to the doors and chest and can snag some kills along the way.
Larachel gets a lot of flack but honestly its incredibly easy getting her to level 10 and she has a mount.
The only really annoying thing about her is if she dies on the chapter she arrives.
She is better than any mage class because of her staff rank imo. Everyone else starts D staves on promotion or less. As a result, Natasha and her should both be higher up. Restore is a run saver and physic access is lovely.
Art and Lute are vastly overrated, slayer is worthless aside from meme content. Lute at least gets a mount but D staves is frustrating along with every single tome weighing her down aside from fire.
Art suffers from low con as well and will need a body ring to properly wield S light or just have him become a worse Moulder or another Saleh.
You can spend 2 body rings on Lute and she'll still only be able to wield Elfire without penalty. Moulder does this at base upon promotion.
Sure she can make up for that with levels but Moulder doesn't even need it. He'll grow to level 10 for free without leeching from anyone just as Natasha and Larachel would. So you have to spam barriers a little more lol.
Natasha and Larachel are at the perfect con to just use D light and stick with that all game so if they do get attacked they can do something.
I tend to like having Moulder S rank Anima, Natasha S rank Light, Larachel S rank Staves and Knoll S rank Dark but honestly it takes investment to get them all there. D light at base promotion is all you need and Moulder C anima is plenty, I just like keeping my team alive with magic users since I typically ironman.
I turn Knoll into Druid because he can use Thunder off rip which is one of the best tomes in the game imo. Though I do recognize summoner likely the better promotion, being absolutely amazing for free experience and the ability to draw attacks off units.
As someone who struggles to protect my thieves, I find Joshua and sometimes Marisa good replacements situationally
Interesting guide, Could you make a similar guide fro fire emblem blazing blade, with best supports fro each characters, and which characters to focus on
Can you please do one of these for Radiant Dawn? I've played the game a million times over on "Easy" but I want to try my hand at "Normal" and "Hard". The game is my favorite, so I have no qualms about sinking the hours into it to attempt this, but I really want to know which characters are the easiest and hardest to use in those modes as I have a habit of having all the characters at relatively equal levels at any given point in the game. The exceptions are Laura who I speed rush to level 20 so she can defend herself asap and Michiah who I make sure is level 20 by the end of Part 1: 10. The other reason I really want this is that I usually take the Dawn Brigade and a couple personal faves (Shinon, Oscar, Rolf, Soren, Tormod, Ilyanna, Ranulf, or Astrid) into endgame, but I've never tried doing it with any other character combo. The biggest reason I want this though is, though I don't mind sinking days worth of playtime into the game, due to how long the game is, it would be nice to know where to start to lessen the required time in order to get a good team for these runs.
It's coming eventually! FE9 will be first though. I have some ideas for FE10.
@@Mekkkah kinda figured. I would've mentioned PoR, but my game cube disk is broke and won't read😭
SSS++ tier: any half decent unit with good support bonuses
Lol is that music from Golden Sun at the start?
Amelia should be in No Brainer
She's just good in General.
Vanessa trade's Wyvern Knight's +4 con with a +5 HP with a +2 in both defenses for Falco Knight, while Wyvern Knight only gives her +3 HP and +1 in both defenses.
I haven't noticed but Sacred Stones it is a game with fairly balanced units
Extremely balanced game, thats why people tend to think its easy but no Valni makes it a bit tougher. No Seth makes it even harder.
Would love to see Path of Radiance!
started with sacred stones, made an iron man run at easy and instantly lost Franz in chapter 1. And well, doing a run now at hard, and it happened me again -_-, I'm always using the christmas caveliers here I guess... But they always overkill one stat and the other just fells behind.
IMO while Neimi and Colm definitely aren’t some of the best units in the game, I usually find that their wicked fast support greatly benefits them both, giving each other attack and tons of crit.
Through early Eirika mode they get some use since I use always use Ross and Franz over Gilliam and Garcia and getting the Orion’s Bolt in Chapter 6 definitely makes Neimi a lot usable.
Funny thing about neimi is that if you mod bows to be 1-2 range she's basically another lute. I've heard the claim that making bows 1-2 would be massively op in gba FE, but when you run the numbers and compare them to mages they're basically the same. More damage, but def is higher than res so it evens out. No staffs either.
They get good support bonuses, but then again, neither are all that good at combat to begin with and their performance with supports can often be replicated by another character without them.
Archers get a lot of hate but honestly they have much of the same positives as a staff user. They don't siphon experience, only create more.
If you decide to kill you can, but you can just as easily poke for free 10 exp just as healing or stealing would. Once the community sees them like a dancer or healer in terms of exp gain, they will shed their terrible combat paradigm.
Not only this but their inability to fight back on enemy phase is actually a plus. Again thats experience for someone else and +1 for you. Many enemies have 2 range so you can easily bait them out with an archer to retaliate as well. In a game where you know exactly where the enemy can attack and move from, Archers and Snipers become much much better since you can control responses.
As a result Archers thieves healers and dancers should all be seen as sort of a support unit, but most importantly none of these classes have to steal exp from anyone. Just setup kills or clean up something that needs attention.
Bows being strong against flyers should honestly not be ignored. It comes in really handy and baiting several wyverns for easy cleanup and low risk of death is life saving.
Rangers are great because of that extra move and you can always trade them their sword back as needed. I would have no doubt that Innes would be as beloved as Gerrick if he were a ranger.
Anyway, when fielding an archer consider it like fielding less units which translates to your carries getting more experience.
Once this becomes the common way to look at Archers in older games you'll see their merit. Their inability to fight back will become their strength and its not like you can't abuse that element.
Amazing tier list !
Just kidding, I think a character guide for Radiant Dawn would be the most interesting option after you finished your current playthrough because in that game even if a character is low or in the middle on a tier list, you can still (and sometimes should) use them, especially part 2 characters.