The TRUTH About Expensive Sleeping Bags!
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2023
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*Gear I talked about in this video:*
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Ozark Trail 10: geni.us/ABGOJNe
Just to be clear: The ISO does not test sleeping bags. They publish a thick manual that you can buy for $100 and that will tell you how to test sleeping bags. An ISO rating does not necessarily mean that the product was independently tested. The manufacturer could also perform these tests according to the ISO standard. Although in reality, many manufacturers do outsource the testing to independent labs.
And they have an incentive to be helpful to the paying company.
ISO can still audit the manufacturer to see if procedures are being followed.
@@AndrewPatterson3001 The paying company has an even higher incentive to produce accurate and reliable data for marketing. If you're making $400 sleeping bags and your temp ratings don't jive with real world use, you're not going to be selling $400 sleeping bags for very long, your gear won't be wanted in sponsored events and people will be wary of buying anything else from you. EN/ISO/ASTM standards aren't designed as a marketing tool, but to get all the makers on the same page with consistent and reliable temperature ratings and R-values. This way sleeping gear performs very much the same regardless of the brand. Fudging the numbers defeats the purpose of using the standards in the first place and does more harm to your product than good.
Some companies do BS it, though. Klymit is the worst offender, touting a 4.4 R-value on their insulated pad and telling you it's ASTM rated right up front, but burying the fact that the ASTM rating is only 1.9 in the fine print. They get away with it because Klymit caters to inexperienced/fair weather users who don't know what these numbers and standards even mean and typically don't need a sleeping pad with a high R-value anyway, so most of them never know they've been ripped off. If Nemo, Rab or Thermarest tried this, they'd get ripped a new one.
I can't speak to sleeping bag testing but I've worked for a couple of companies (in a completely different industry) that claim to be ISO certified. We would be audited regularly and honestly the audits are a joke.
We would retroactively fudge data or provide some BS excuse to get an exemption on an audit item EVERY single time. If they were auditing properly we'd almost certainly fail. But they're pretty lax as far as audits go and year after year we'd pass by the skin of our teeth.
I suppose it's better than nothing but I wouldn't put a high degree of faith in ISO compliance. I consider it a starting reference point that at least shows the company wants to be compliant.
@@kobayashimaru8114 🙈🙉🙊🤔 I get it. There's loopholes. I guess the stuff I work with day to day is quite a bit more stringent. Audits can be a joke, and sometimes the person doing the audits can be a joke as well, on both sides of the spectrum. I've heard horror stories about both from others. The company I work for passed audits left and right so the head guy who put the program together came to INTENTIONALLY find something wrong to nail us with. And he dug until he found what he wanted.
It was nice to see you pick up a Walmart brand and talk about it. Breaking down all these confusing ratings even better. Appreciate the info on what it all means 👏🏻
The ‘one’ sleeping bag I have enjoyed using for years now in any condition down to -20.c is the Carinthia Modular army sleep system. It was a trial bag issued in around 1999 that had a summer and winter bag that zipped together plus a cotton liner. This bag system was half the size and weight of the US army version. It has honestly been incredible. The airspace in between 2 bags makes a massive difference. I have not felt cold while using it. It’s not much difference in size and weight to a normal 0.C rated bag.
I still have mine!
Its still in service in the german army. I own the summer sleeping bag "Tropen". Love it. Nice sleeping bag until 50 fahrenheit (or 10 degrees).
What on earth? Those motion graphics are like watching a professional documentary on TV. You’re killing it! And yes! More content about a diversity of people and their budgets to enjoy the outdoors.
That Ozark Trail bag looks fantastic for budget car camping bag.
"You may not ever be the same, ever again" Man that is a line that hits hard. Just wanted to say that you are killing it, great content, great edits, and you have turned out to be a great presenter.
Thank you so much for converting the temperature units!!!
The good thing about the Walmart bag is that even though you don't want to use it for it's claimed comfort rating it's probably a decent 35 degree bag if that's all you can afford. I bought a 50 degree Walmart bag from a junk store for $5 and it's actually a great 50 degree bag. I didn't even want the thing and only bought it for the little compression sack, but when I got it home I pulled it out to throw it away and it was brand new so I kept it. I used it a few times and now it's my go-to warm weather bag because it's rectangular, light and compresses well. I don't think I would trust a Walmart bag in cold weather, though, and I for sure don't want to carry around all that synthetic weight and bulk.
Hands down, Western Mountaineering. Costly, yes, but they don’t use three different ratings. My 10 degree bag is comfortable at 10 degrees Fahrenheit. When I go to the ground, in colder temperatures, it’s Western Mountaineering for me.👍
My WM Everlite is a 45F bag and that rating is accurate, too. If I wear my hooded down jacket and merino baselayer I can be comfy down to 36-38F cowboy camping on an uninsulated NEMO Tensor. I just use vegetation or terrain to block the wind.
Another great informative video. Plus, answered a question I’ve been having about footwear.
The pad makes a huge difference as to how warm a bag will be. And a synth bag’s insulation will break down over time and hence be less efficient (warm), especially if carried in a compression stuff sack.
I justify the “high cost” of a tent/sleeping bag/pad by considering the cost of a hotel room. If I spend ten nights in the outdoors, I’ve hit the break-even point.
REI has 20% off sales twice a year, and for tents and pads there are lots of deals on used gear.
I bought a Western Mountaineering Apache Microfiber with 2 oz overfill 23 years ago. It was around $450 at the time. It’s still my go-to winter bag and performs like new. Seeing how prices have gone up, I could get a fair chinch of my investment back if I sold this bag used.
The information you share is appreciated.cheers
I would have liked to see you talk more about the option of adding a liner to improve the warmth of zero bags that are actually comfort rated for 14-15 degrees. I've looked at -20 bags, and without exception, the extra cost, bulk, and weight is not worth it for adding a couple of nights per year. Spending the most amount of money for a bag I'll use the least just doesn't make sense.
Just to add to the conversation, I was out last week in the Indian Peaks range of the Rocky Mountains. Low temperature was 30F, next to a pretty good stream so some humidity and wind flow. Admittedly I sleep cold, but okay, I had a Western Mountaineering down bag rated at -10F and I was in “the womb”! So Lovely.
Nice video and great info!
Thanks for the useful information.
while iso is a published standard, isn't ISO testing still internal testing?
Very well done!
I bought a -18 for trout season.. april up in canada is cool at night.. my friend has a -18 and we went winter camping.. was sleeping in his boxers lol while i froze with my -1 with layers on lol now i got -18 and im not worries to go spring and fall fishing over night..
I have those exact nortiv8 boots! I bought them earlier this year and have put about 1.5 million steps through them (tracked through my pedometer app) and they've held up so far, although the sole is getting thin in some high wear areas. This was mostly street walking too since my workboots died and I was too lazy to get new ones, so have just been wearing these. They've been comfortable since day 1. I have unusuallywide feet and will try for at least a 9 double wide, but the 9.5 wide size fit me well. I am a very new hiker with little experience, so take that with a grain of salt.
I’m glad to hear they will last. That was my only concern. Thanks for the comment
I'm completely sold on Western mountaineering as the absolute best for comfort, packability, weight and true temperature ratings. I bought the 20 degree bag and its now 14-15 years old and I love it. I do however also have 2 Coleman aka Walmart level sleeping bags and for the price, and starting off for less serious people, it's a great option.
I use the Ozark bag at a 32 degrees rating and it’s fine. The coldest temps I have been in was at 17 degrees…. I just place warmers in the bag with me.
I'm always hot when camping. My comfort temp is about 39 degrees. But I do have a -25 bag that I use even in the summer. I just open it up and use it as a blanket. I would just get the lowest temp you can afford.
i just want to say.. your video editing is🔥
I have lived (and slept) outdoors for the majority of my life from about age 6 onward (long story...LOL) and worked professionally in the wilderness education/guiding arena (on and off) for over 30 years in one capacity or another. I DIY my sleep systems with the current one being over 20 years old and have slept in temperatures below - 30°F many times (without wind chill) for as long as 10 days straight...$$$ do not equal better at all, knowledge and understanding of the system (as well as conditioning) is what matters...be it a natural bed roll system, modern synthetic or combination thereof...Thanks for another great review and breakdown...
I actually bought the park trail bag 4ish years ago and I’ve done camping down to about freezing in it. I don’t have any issues. If it’s over 40 I am naked in that bag with the zipper cracked
If youre gonna go with boots go with a muck style lightweight hunting boot if youre in heavy tick country. Ticks cant grab onto the smooth rubber as opposed to any sort of mesh. It will cut them down to a fraction if theyre tall and your pants are tucked in
The old school way of testing with prople in cold rooms almost seems more trustworthy. That and old, heavy, dense 550 fill down. Looking at you TNF Blue Kazoo! 😬
One months rent? Man . . . I remember when rent in my area was $800. That was a long while ago.
There's gotta be a catch with those boots! They look awesome.
Ive got 2 ozark trail bags ..one is a 40f degree minimalist bag super thin and rolls up really small .i messed up my very first backpacking trip ever.. n took it not thinking it was goin to get down to 25f that night . And i was miserable all night , even with all my clothes on..but u live an learn.. anyway i have that one and another super thick 30f one and ive been taking them both and layering them as needed and with both i get hot when its like 40f . ...Both them together was like $60 i think.. obviously theyre not as Light , nice or comfortable but they work. And cheap... As much as i would Appreciate having a really nice bag like that nemo one. Ill never be able to afford it. And if i had it id be scared to take it afraid i was gonna mess it up.
So the question I have is, this sleeping bag is like 24° comfort level. the temperature I need to sleep at is 16°. If I take this and sleep with my base layer silk top/bottom, and my mid layer waffle top/bottom, would the clothing layers keep my comfortable in that bag?
Good info 👍
I can see if both met the same ISO standards saying hey they are almost the same. But then you have to factor in how durable they are. Started off camping again as an adult with a ozark trail 30 degree bag. That thing was garbage and only good to use to help pad a cot. Upgraded to a Coleman 30 and a huge difference. Upgraded just recently to a Nemo disco 30 which I am going to use this month but when testing at the store already seemed a lot warmer and packs down to less than half the size of the Coleman.
On the other hand, if the Ozark trail is $40 and the Nemo is $500, you would need to wear out 13 of the cheap bags before the expensive one was worn out in order for the Nemo to be $20 cheaper in the long run.
When I saw that 5.7 lb bag I almost choked. My 30 deg bag (summer camper) is 1 lb 3 oz. Hard to imagine carrying one that heavy now. But the comfort VS limit temp is very good info to know
Look up the Wiggys brand. Made in Colorado and the best. Military uses them.
I'm surprised ozark trail actually does any ISO stuff, so that's cool. Although, for the price point, their stuff is actually okay as long as you keep that in mind.
I currently have a Kelty 20 bag which felt a little bit cold once it got below 30, but I like otherwise. I was thinking of getting a bag liner instead of getting a whole new bag. Would anyone have thoughts on why this is an okay or terrible idea?
If the Kelty fits you with ample room to turn on your side, keeping it and adding a liner may be a great option. As for me, I'm walking away from Kelty since it is no longer the company I've know since when I was growing up backpacking in the Colorado Rockies. For a comparable price, I just bought a Big Agnes Torchlight on sale, and will be returning my Cosmic Ultra 20. The Torchlight is much roomier and warmer, and I could NOT be happier!! Even the Ultra (800 dridown) version of the Kelty Cosmic 20 is not warm enough for its ratings, and I find it to be too damn small in girth.
I've taken this bag to -18 F testing in yard without problem! Just need the right sleeping pad I'd guess. I may run warm being a 185lbs man.
Use two cheap bags and a tarp, portaging with an external pack frame and oversize stuff sacks strapped to the external frame.
Down is so easily compressed that it loses all of its loft against the ground. Sleep in the all wool winter ensemble and bring your boots into the roomy bag to prevent your boots from freezing. A small closed cell foam pad is sufficient with fiber fill since these bags are not easily compressed.
How heavy are those hiking boots? I'm dying to find a decent pair of waterproof hiking boots that are on the lighter side.
Brandecosse Capriolo and Scarpa Mojito mid are great.
If you have fairly slender feet as I do.
Shop about for some good deals.
I saw the headline and teaser image, and thought, "oh no, I have a Nemo bag on my wish list." Your point seems to be to dig and do the research to make a good comparison between bags.
For most products, there are multiple factors to consider. For a new sleeping bag, I'm looking at weight, temperature rating, fill, and price.
Regarding the shoes, I almost always want to try on shoes before I buy, especially hiking or running shoes.
ETA: "fill" to the factors I'm looking at in sleeping bag.
My Height is: 68 inch (173 cm), and The size of my shoulders is 17 inch (44 cm).
Would you say a mummy sleeping bag of (81"L x 21"W) is suitable for my body size?
Thank you
thank u
Nice video
Take note...
The buffalo sleep system is far superior to ANY OTHER IN EVERY WAY ,ANYWHERE AT ANY PRICE ( including wiggys btw)
It consists of the
Buffalo 4s outer, 4s inner, buffalo systems thermaliner, special 6 shirt and special 6 trousers.
Extreme cold weather rated at MINUS 110 DEGREES ...
comfort at minus 50.
Can be stored FULLY COMPRESSED indefinitely without affecting performance . Thermal efficiency is UNCHANGED WET OR DRY .
Made in Sheffield UK.
BUY ONCE CRY ONCE .
I checked them out. Their gear looks great for wet conditions. But their insulation does degrade over time. From their website: "...pile flattened over many years cannot really be rescued..."
I really like my down top quilts, hammock and underquilts for where I typically camp in conditions ranging from -15 C to 35 C
@@jays7318
Thanks for taking the time to reply Jay.
Actually when the aquatherm extreme pile fleece lining in buffalo systems sleeping bags gets flattened ,it can be very easily restored to the same thermal efficiency it had when it was new by simply brushing it with an ordinary hair brush .
Also ,being a 5 part sleep system ( including special 6 shirt and trousers )
The system is perfect for all year round use from the Sahara to Antarctica.
This versatility puts the buffalo system in a league of it's own as far as performance goes.
If down gets wet it's about as much use as Anne Frank's drum kit.
The buffalo system loses almost none of its thermal insulation performance even when it is completely soaked with water , it performs like a wet suit if soaked and retains so much body heat it actually dries itself out .
I've spoken to the owner at buffalo and told him to invest heavily in a world wide ad campaign .Almost nobody has heard of buffalo systems , if everyone realised how good they actually are , every other sleeping bag manufacturer would go out of business ...
You can even breathe inside the buffalo system in extreme low temperatures and the super high aquatherm wicking capability means the condensation freezes ON THE OUTSIDE .
Conversely ,
If you breathe inside a down bag it turns into a 10 kilo ice collar that extends down to chest level ... ...
Or ,you can use a vapor barrier and enjoy climbing out of a down bag very warm and soaked to the skin at minus 20....🤣😂
I suppose wim hof might like it lol
@davidjacobs828 Hmm, I've not once had a problem with moisture and my ultralight down quilts in a hammock. On a pad I have had issues. A hammock with down quilts is the best setup I have experienced in the summer and winter.
I also prefer to carry 1/3 to 1/4 the weight of that synthetic sleep system for backpacking, not to mention the high compressibility of down. So my down quilts and the hammock is my choice every time.
I'd go for one of their synthetic jackets though. I did read a review that they are not restorable with brushing after a very long period (10+ years), but that's totally acceptable.
Here's someone else's review of the system (from an independent website):
"Its very indestructable and easy to wash, dampness is no problem.
BUT having had a down bag now since 1998 I don't want to go back. The Buffalo system is heavy (even just the 4s outer on its own) and bulky. When you are 18 have strong shoulders and little brain that's fine, but now as middle-age appears not too far in the distance (!) I will go for lighter weight gear."
Also break down the costs per night. If you are out a lot that's one thing but if you are using your sleeping bag and mat for only a few days every year you should really look for cheap versions. Otherwise your 5 nights out are more expensive than a wellness retreat...
And: keep in mind what you really need it for.
I love my Nemo
My go to bag is from China ! Ollie's is the store yes it's something I could not Carry around for long but I'm warm ❤
Do you refer to Degree Fahrenheit or Celsius, would be nice to know in the Future…
(Think your referring to Fahrenheit, but we haven’t this here in Europe)
Check the titles in the lower left corner. They have all temperatures converted to Celsius.
vango microlite 200 plus liner or go for microlite 300
For most men, women on avg plan around 20 degrees rating then what a bag lists.
Meaning if you are a woman and need a 40 degree bag buy a 20 degree bag if its a mens sleeping bag
-18 C is just crazy for me being a south american man, specially in Brazil the colder I ever got is a -4 Celcius harsh winter
3:29 this is not necessarily a deception, they also could just be inept, or something lost in translation, in other words a quality control issue. Quality control is one of the major differences between a reputable and trusted brand and what is essentially a store brand. It’s also likely that the zipper, insulation and shell material are low quality and are more likely to fail with heavy use. That said, if you’re a person who only ventures out once a year or less, even a low quality sleeping bag would work fine for most of these people for their annual summer hike.
I was told that a men's specific bag will use the limit rating but a women's specific bag will use the comfort rating. Is this accurate?
40 dollars is axtually impressive price for -4°c comfort, the one i have is considered best quality/price, i paid 90 Euro or 105 dollars for a 0°c here in Europe
What is the red/Grey sleeping pad? Is that the new Nemo All Season?
Yes it is
1:39 Another temperature consideration is that, in most tents it’s going to be at least 5 degrees F warmer inside the tent or even warmer inside a snow cave or similar shelter. So, even a cold sleeper (with a decent-enough sleeping pad), will be comfortable in a 0 degree sleeping bag from a well-known and reputable brand into the single digit temperatures, if they have a decent shelter system.
Yeah yeah that's all well and good but can you unzip the bottom and walk around camp like a penguin 🤔
I like your hat, what hat is that?
Should be noted that top quilts are NOT tested to the ISO standard because it doesn’t apply to quilts. And rightly so - there are a lot of other variables involved with how warm a quilt is: how you attach it to the pad, how much you toss and turn, etc. I’m not saying there shouldn’t or couldn’t be a standard to test them, but the ISO test right now does not apply.
So we, the UL crowd, are left to compare loft, read reviews on others’ perceptions of how warm a bag is that they have used, and “guesstimate” how warm we will be in a quilt.
Hopefully a standard is developed to test these soon!
just looking at the ozark ....i can tell you that at 25° (-4C) ... this will not feel warm. you can see loft with your eyes. its that easy
Exactly. That POS won’t be warm under 40, if it even makes it into your tent before the materials fall apart.
Ok nice vid
Nice video. I will gladly carry a sleeping bag that IS NOT 5.7 pounds!
Wish Walmart still had the Ozark Trail down 32° sleeping bag, perfect for the kids.
They used to have great tents too. They were clones of REI Half and Quarter Dome models. I own 2 of them and other than being orange you could not tell them apart. Cost $45 for a 2 man and $27 for the one man tent. Very good quality.
Seeing lives at risk it need’s universal real ratings
I both liked and disliked your explaination of the different temperature ratings. It is very important for people to realize, that they can't just take the number on the bag for granted and have no problems with it. I however am a person, that usually is rather too hot than too cold. When planning for a trip I always look at the limit rating of my bags, because I know that is where I will feel comfortable. Where in the range of the bag your personal comfort level is, is totally subjective. A friend of mine, who tends to be rather cold, always stays above the comfort rating with his bag.
Just do jumping jacks all night, David Goggins style instead of carrying a sleeping bag.
Kind of a bummer that if a company started being 100% honest about ratings in the name of a bag, they’d be penalized for it. Most consumers would assumed a bag named the “Nemo Sonic 14” was really closer to a 25° or 30° bag because we have all become so used to this system.
Seems like unless the entire industry gets a reboot or some regulations in place, the slightly dishonest labeling is inevitable.
I have always been asking my self, what do they consider to wear referring to these ratings? Am I sleeping with clothes on or only underwear? I mean this makes a big difference.
so what is the truth about expensive sleeping bag? I have a thermarest down quilt rated at 20F (32F confort, 0C), but at 40F, 4 degree C I was quite cold with the bag properly set. So what is the TRUTH?
What sleeping pad were you using. Bags need properly rated sleeping pads to work. It’s the most common reason why someone will be cold in a bag
Yes, I use Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite, it has R-value arround 4, so it's not the pad, but thamks for the reply! I don,t think that they are completly honest about the confort temp - maybe individual tests are needed :) Maybe put them into a video. @@MyLifeOutdoors
Partially depends on your personal preferences and how hot you sleep. I have the Corus 20F quilt with the 32F comfort rating and when laying on top of a topo luxe with the haven insulated pad cover I was overly warm at 38F - to the point that I disconnected the pad straps to let some air in.
600+ 200= 800. Wish I could find rent even NEAR that lol
That's a ridiculous price for a less than capable sleeping bag. I have a €60 Chinese made sleeping bag that keeps me comfortable at 0°C.
Because the filling is compressed underneath my body, I use a foil coated mat between me and my inflatable sleeping mat. The lowest temperature I've used it in is -1°C, and I slept like a baby.
That's the most interesting explanation of Comfort, Limit, and Extreme rating that I've ever heard.
I'm from italy, i noticed that european brand are more clear with temperature rating on their bags, and often explain precisely the meaning of these numbers. Try looking at the site of the brand "Ferrino" (hope it's translated in english😅)
The way I've heard it explained is the basic rating means you won't die at that temp. Add clothing, shelter, maybe a blanket, and a decent pad and you should be close to comfortable at least. I did an overnight at literally zero, thermals, poncho liner, 0 degree bag, and at one point heated water on the fire and filled a Gatorade bottle for the foot box and was mostly comfortable all night. Next morning sucked tho. Lol
1 month's rent is $800-900?? Where do you live man? I gotta move there😂😂
The assumption was probably that people would be more likely to use the cheap sleeping bags in their tents rather than spend the night outdoors without anything over their heads!
Rent where!?!?!?!?
24.
as far as I know the rating conciders you being naked in the bag, so if you wear a little extra you can easily strech the rating
The ratings are measured with the thermal manikin wearing one layer of clothing head to toe. So these ratings assume everyone will be doing the same.
Nemo makes a $500 bag that weighs 3 pounds? That seems awfully heavy.
One month's rent? Come live in Canada, it's at least 2 😢😂😢
I could not find the budget for a down one so i spent some time digging through the forest of synthetic ones. Lesson 1: even reputable companies can be shady with the temperature ratings. Its sometimes very hard to come by this info. Lesson 2: its a bit of a faff buying a bag for a 6'4 person. They usually stop at 6'3, similar story with sleeping pads.
Gotta say my €50 bag held up suprisingly well in combo with my overkill sleeping pad. Others on the trip with more expensive kit complained about cold nights, i did not.
Only complaint i have (if you can call it that) is that its very, very, very red.😊
I can confirm that SeaToSummit bags in long fit me (6'6 or 195 cm). I have ample room to move inside it, but I am a thin person. I have the STS Spark III. It did break the bank, but I managed to find it on sale for 350 euros, whereas my local shop sells it for full price of 500 euros. It's only 745 grams, it is very small when compressed, and has an excellent zipper. That costs money. I also have a Ferino synthetic one which is like 1,8 kg (1800 grams for my fellow Americans), the zipper is mediocre and it's very large when compressed. It was around 130 euros. You get the picture.
"...for the same price as one month's rent!" *cries in Californian*
Yah but if the bag gets wet then it is less than worthless. Its pretty rare to see any kind of system that can take days of rain.
Well tbf, if it gets cold enough you won't have to worry about rain
The $40 bag is huge and weighs 5.7lb, nobody is going to carry that!
I live in Switzerland, there isn't a sleeping bag in existence as expensive as my rent!!
can't comment on the boots, I only wear trail running shoes.
للاسف لم افهم شي من الشرح
Just buy an Enlightened Equipment Quilt and forget about it. Sure it cost a full months rent, but I saved 5 months rent while I was living out of it. ;)
Rich people's hobbies!
It is too bad down jackets don't have a rating. You have no idea what you're actually getting other than the fill power.
Agree 100%
On top of fill power look at the fill weight. 2 ounces for 40F degrees. 5 ounces for 20F. 8+ ounces for extreme temps.
@@FrozensAdventures Thanks!! (Presumably they don't put all 8 oz into the left upper arm) 😀😀😀
I would have liked to listen to the advertisement about the shoes at the end of your video, because I am looking for good hiking shoes just now, but unfortunately I was unable to listen to it because it was so disturbing, TOO LOUD the so-called "music", it was especially annoying, especially because your speech was too quiet compared to it!
"Nemo isn't intentionally trying to be deceptive"... Yes they feckin are! 😂
That's the marketing game: how much can they distort the truth without actually false advertising and lying outright.
They aren't lying that it's a 0° bag, but they are giving it a title which makes it appear like it could handle 0° and all will be like sleeping on a marshmallow mountain. It's an intentional deception, they know that they'll sell more by this presentation rather than a more transparent one.
It's a marketing practice that needs routing out.
On that basis Nemo will now never have my custom. I've no room for dishonest marketing techniques, they help no one in the long run, not customers, not businesses, and not shareholders. And worse still it distorts the actual value of things which in-turn damages economies and causes everything to fail and fall apart.
So rant over. Screw Nemo and their obvious lies!
When did the ratings change from comfort = lowest temp at which the average woman will sleep warm, limit = the temp at which the average man will sleep warm?
When that meant they could reduce the material in the product.... shrinkflation is everywhere and has been going on for quite some time.😂
It is false advertising to call a bag by its limit (men) and not by comfort (women)
It has been my experience with a lot of bags I have used extensively
By the time you are using the bag regularly it’s efficiency drops
So a comfort rating will drop to limit
That is acceptable
But a bag rated as limit will be dropping too low for comfort
Buyer beware
Not really in this marketplace
Second!
How can I sell more videos? 🤔 Just start the title with "The truth" lol PS. General comment about youtube
Hey sometimes we are grasping at straws for titles. 😅
🙂@@MyLifeOutdoors
Who's rent is 800? Was this made in 1995?
I really don't give a rip about the rating from a manufacturer (any more). Most of us have had a bag or quilt and have had an experiences with that product. Compare that experience and data to anything you're looking at to purchase. For me these days its easy (I do EE Revelation 10). Theres tiny little snaps and things that weigh nothing, theres x ozs of 10d Nylon and X ozs of down. My next quilt will have to compare with those numbers without regard to whats printed on the face. Most of this I guess applies only to someone upgrading or downgrading a quilt for weight or warmth. If you're a first timer GGG is a one stop shop...with love, resist REI for most gear.
Cheers everyone.
Or just get an insulated pad and a western mountaineering bag so you don’t have to worry about this 3 temp crap
They bought out camping world merchandise name and make in china😮