Destiny 2: I Still Can't Get Past Content Vaulting
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- I've heard the explanations, I know this may be an impossible argument to win, but I think an enormous amount of Destiny's issues stem from content vaulting, and returning lost content and ceasing the practice need to be a priority, no matter what it takes.
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This isn't really a "blues" issue because I can't claim it's a simple fix, but I do think it threads through the whole game. Sub if you like the channel pls! - ruclips.net/channel/UCg6K8i6OGobyZNoPIsCW9uQ
Im just sad i missed the leviathan raid shaders. I'm a huge slut for gold.
You raise an important point indirectly, that as the quality of these seasons improve and more and more work goes into their creation, how does Bungie justify internally taking the hard work of their team and just wiping forever from the game? All the amazing content from Splicer, with the absolutely unique Tron visuals and the speedrun style solo maps, never to be seen again - yet the Eliksni are still hanging around the tower?? I can understand vaulting matchmade events because eventually it will be very difficult to match when everyone forgets about that content, but to eat your own babies like this in a continuous process becomes more absurd over time, especially as the quality of content improves. They need to drop or split off the older consoles as their own product and stop punishing those with latest generation hardware, if that is even a genuine technical “excuse.”
I just feel like there needs to be a massive uplift in content for playlists. I just don't consider it acceptable to have so little investment in maps and strikes, these are not gargantuan Battlefield maps. Every season, two new maps for gambit and crucible, with next season's maps in labs for practice. Strikes need a serious overhaul, something to mix it up. Random enemy generation, extra RNG bosses with weird loot, whatever. Then the seasonal activity on that.
don't forget Mark Hamill voiced Nokris in SoA and did a killer job lmao
I seemed that i was only one thinking this. That i personally dont rly care that, the content is gone, but new players literally dont have reason to stay if they dont know whats happening. And that is a huge problem.. since we need new players.
I think removing the Red War was a mistake. Sure you could argue "then how could they keep Red War if Titan and Io were removed," but I would counter, the missions of Red War could be independent assets - leave out the open world aspects. Without the Red War, New Light makes no sense since it concludes with your character going to the Tower with no reason nor explaination as to why things are destroyed or what the hell is the Witness.
Then on top of that, the first campaign now for New Lights is ShadowKeep- which is arguably the worst Major DLC campaign (CoO and WM are minor dlcs). This is because Shadowkeep is built on the idea that people know what the F*** is going on. New Light players are lacking this -hence confusion and bad business
There are so many little fixes that would allow us to keep things like the Red War. It's like two missions on Io and Titan each. Surely you don't need to bring back a whole planet for that (although I strongly believe those planets should be brought back in their entirety).
I think the real problem is that Bungie doesn't care. If Bungie cared, they could at least preserve the narrative if not the planets. Oh well, I guess they'd rather make mediocre seasonal content. (I liked Splicer, Worthy and Arrivals, BTW, just not Chosen, Hunt, Lost, Undying, ... and I missed Dawn altogether, which is another can of worms).
The best story in the game, I think we Warmind + Shadowkeep + Worthy + Arrivals because it was all one story. Boot up Rasputin, learn the pyramids are coming, try to stop them, fail, and then deal with their presence. After season of arrivals, Bungie has not had a single coherent narrative (if they ever did).
@@John_II I definitely agree with your statement on Bungie not caring. Bungie spends more time making removable content and eververse that most things are hollow
Its not that simple nor is it cost effective to trim down certain aspects of a campaign to keep it in. It's the same reason they removed the strikes when they vaulted the destinations as it would require staff time and it wouldn't add something they can profit from. Bungie is still a business, actually first and foremost a business. The employees need to be paid for their time and running a business has overhead, even if its just paying the utilities for the office.
@@ZeaDabble the issue that I’m arguing which is what the video is about is that Bungie has been removing more content then it’s replaces with. And what it does replace is only temporary and easy to be forgotten.
So what would make more sense-
Lots of forgettable, lacklustre seasonal content
OR
1 - 2 Quality filled content drops that stick around??
Getting rid of the red war from a NL perspective, they ruined a fresh start to Destiny.
As much as I enjoy the original start in the Old Russia, it doesn’t feel like you’re starting somewhere new and unique. Plus your left going to the tower with no idea what to do next. At least with the Red war you had missions to do and places to be.
What Bungie did with content vaulting is historic. They legit stole their customers money and then gaslit their community to think it was an acceptable thing to do. "People don't play it anymore" is not an excuse to steal it back after people already paid for it.
The reason is because under Activision, Destiny 3 was going to be a thing. D2’s engine was not meant to support how massive the game has gotten, Beyond Light’s timeframe would have been D3. That’s why they’re redoing the engine for a third time, as told in the Lightfall reveal.
This is much more than “buh- Bungie stole my money!!”.
@@progenitor_amborella but thats exactly what it boils down to. people paid money for the DLCs and bungie took it away because they decided to change their business model and it harmed the paying customer experience
@@progenitor_amborella are you kidding? They built a game with a 10 year plan and they didn't put in place everything they needed to support the game for 10 years?
@@progenitor_amborella They should have just made Destiny 3 if they knew they didn’t have enough room in Destiny 2
@@progenitor_amborella bootlicking for Bungie isn't going to help anything.
New player: "Nice gun man, where can I get that?!"
Veteran player: "Sorry, the quest for this weapon is not in the game anymore."
New player: "Aww well what about that sweet armor?"
Veteran: "Same story."
New player: "Your ship?"
Veteran: "Unobtainable."
@@Banana-Boi I've legitimately had people ask me about my ship and a few shaders before (all from warmind or season of the forge) and had to break the bad news to them.
Games as a service model working as intended. Capitalizing on players fomo since the 8th console generation.
Although, world of Warcraft has been doing this since its inception with removal of content. But there, it's done for lore reasons.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, it feels so empty to not have a story I can go back to and play from beginning to end like I can with D1
Like seriously does bungie not realize that people like to play their games for the campaign?
Yup, I played D2 when it released and I remember having a lot of fun playing through the campaign with friends. Now I just reinstalled it because I wanted to play it again and was super confused with why the intro and so much more of the game is different. Then I found the threads and videos about the content vaulting :(
@@voidwalker3871 yeah I tried coming back and I was just confused so I uninstalled I didn’t even know what to do
Never stop bringing this up. This community it far too complement. Bungie haven't been treating us, the consumers of their only product, acceptably for a long time.
given the death threats for one exotic, i wouldnt say the community is complement, i also would rather not download a 200gb game
@@cloudstrike5225 Find a job, buy bigger drive. People should not suffer butchered game because individuals like you are such a cheapskates
@@cloudstrike5225 They could do it like the master chief collection and have some parts of content be optional downloads.
@@cloudstrike5225 just make it as an alternative download. The missions on the removed planets have borders and Bungie dont have to bring the entire Patrol zone back
@@phnx_tom5400 but they should... This is content year 1 players like me paid for... If I sound entitled, I mean like... I did pay for it, so it makes sense.
It's hard to engage with the seasonal activities when the "core" playlists feel neglected, and the seasons require playlist completions. They've only really gotten smaller and haven't kept up with the rest of the game.
I'm still blown away that they took the red war campaign out, like that's the whole basis of why we even have d2, like new players are fighting nightmares of Ghaul and they don't even know who he is
New Lights are Thanos.
After how much I lost, I feel like a new light myself, lost and without content
Exactly! I started playing Destiny 2 about a 2 weeks ago, really enjoyed the beginning and the stuff I could do as a free to play player. Bought the content and startet with season of the risen. Didn't know about the characters but thought to myself, it'll all make sense when I start playing the older expansion (I wanted to play the season content first so I don't miss it). Now I'm in Season of the Haunted and I don't know who Ghaul is, searched the internet on the order of the dlcs and realised I won't be able to play the old content until bungie decides to bring it back (if ever) and my only option is to watch lore videos or let's plays of the past content. I knew that I couldn't play the old seasons, which is ok I guess. Not happy, but there's worse. And that is not beeing able to play the original story and the past expansions. Pretty shit new player experience. My only hope is that they upgrade their server capacity or whatever the problem is and make it an optional download or something so new players can actually enjoy the story from the beginning to the end and know whats going on.
@@circl3trees351 deep
True they say experience the world of destiny how can new players do that if they vaulted the old campaign ridiculious
The fact that destiny got away with content vaulting at all is shocking.
probably not. i bet their player base growth is non existent now.
Like i just downlloaded the game again after a few years with my friend and realised how much of a joke it is. We will play it a little bit here and there for a while. We wont buy anything and we wont be back for a long time when we get bored of it.
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 looking at the steam charts for the last 5 mounths they have been at a steddy decline, no new players becouse theres no game left lol
@@memeulesrift6008 it's a shame because the gunplay feels really really good. Though i personally hate all the abilities. They need to just need to fix the engine, make a destiny 3 and combine all the content they did from D1 and D2 and start from there.
Their excuse for removing the old campaigns is that the majority of the player base never actively played it after completing it. Which is why they need to do what ESO are doing this year and do difficulty and reward settings for replaying missions. It doesnt even require that much work but adds so much replayability and the idea that there is loads of content to play through, which is something i really enjoy about ESO.
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 witch is funny because eso has 3 times the amount of content and never had to delete anything
@@memeulesrift6008hardly any new players because i imagine getting flooded by scenes where your ghost and other characters are like "oh my god, its that guy that did that thing, man this is surprising as hell, arent you shocked guardian?"
Meanwhile new players: ".... What?"
I doubt its for running anything properly, this feels like they did this for the old players that havent yet bought the new expansion for whatever reason see that they cant redo the old shit/finish the old shit and hope they think "oh, may as well buy the new stuff and forget about the other stuff i paid for" rather than being rightfully pissed off/annoyed.
I jumped off the D2 train after they announced content vaulting.
The reasoning for it is irrelevant from a plauer perspective.
It doesnt matter why they did it, it will never feel good.
It doesnt matter why they did it, would be new players are going to see it and say "i don't get it, i dont like it" and just not jump in.
I came to the understanding earlier that content vaulting wasnt going to be a one time thing, it is purely the act of kicking the can down the road until you have to do it all over again and i wasnt down for that.
If every year you lose fun activities why should anyone get excited? Its all going to be gone regardless.
If half of the content the game gets is just old content that was removed then what are you paying for?
Content vaulting is just a cancer on the game, no matter what new thing you put out it will always be tainted by the existence of content vaulting.
Well said. After content-vaulting, I tried Beyond Light to see how it would play out, and it was terrible. I quit at the end of beyond light. Best time in D2 ever was Season of Arrivals when we still had all our planets and campaigns.
yeah why would i ever buy any of the expansions? I already bought one that's gone forever.
I got a friend to start playing D2. He was bored almost immediately and had no idea what was going on. He didn't want to spend the money to access content when he didn't think it would be any more enjoyable than what he had been playing. Can't say I blame him. I suspect that some version of this story has played out more than once.
It's the same trap WoW fell in. When a game becomes so big that the company designs it only for the people who are actively playing, locking out older and newer people. I sincerely hope Bungie turns into the right direction before they share the same fate as Blizzard did.
@@Mediados true
This is me. I started at launch, but real life (and other games) took precedence. I expected to come back to the game and just pick up where I left off, or start fresh. Instead, I'm dumping into a very jarring experience and surrounded by a "just cope" attitude from anyone I ask about it. Against my better judgement, I AM coping, but the way I enjoy games *I paid for* is to play the game and be involved in the story. Not just read the timeline or digest cinematic videos on the timeline.
I'm doing that now to play with friends. While I can get over it entirely, the entire mentality of "letting it go" and moving on says more about the players than it does the company.
I'd hope for a classic treatment that has the content of the game available in the game and playable, with no "just check the timeline" or "look at that other site" nonsense.
@@Mediados lol no not even the same thing
Yep this was the experience for my friends. For me though I enjoyed that content and kept playing
What’s unbelievably frustrating is there’s just these giant gaps in the narrative missing. It’s impossible to play the story from beginning to end because a large part of the middle has just vanished.
What happens a few years after The Final Shape? Is the ending of a 10 year saga just gonna be vaulted, not playable to any new players who wanted to experience the story that will likely define this game?
I’ll continue to argue that doubling down on D2 is a mistake. With a shit launch and old engine, it’s disappointing to see Bungie plant their flag here. I would have much rather waited a few years to get a true sequel so that content didn’t have to get vaulted and we could see a Destiny built for multiple years from the ground up.
The more they invest into D2 and not a sequel, the more content gets vaulted, and the less interested the playerbase will be about investing in the game. It’s bad optics
Kind of agree but also don’t r agree. Sure the story element is important but not really. Look at how unless u played D1 u wouldn’t know shit about siva, varicks, exo stranger and so forth. So this have existed in year 1 D2 as well. But it wasn’t a problem. Do u know y? Coz most people don’t care about the story but especially about the story that was told in year 1 and 2. Y would something like the red war be important? It isn’t. Curse of Osiris? Osiris is irrelevant rn plus the story wouldn’t matter anyways. Warmind? There was a warmind…now there isn’t….so…that too is useless. Cayde died…cool? Most people don’t care, let me correct myself. Most players that didn’t play D1 don’t give a shit about cayde dying. Mara sov? Unless u played D1 u wouldn’t know shit about her, uldren? Same story with him. Even in forsaken when he was relevant. U had to google his story to know y he loves his sister so much and how she died.
This right here is exactly what the shills of the community, and company of Bungie just can't grasp. When mention The elephant in the room being the old Tiger engine you just get silence.
@@mrlunar62 Difference is, for the people that want to experience D1 story, they still can do it bc D1 a it's DLCs aren't vaulted
Not saying this cuz of content vaulting but man I wish they wouldve committed to making a D3. Like u said D2 was built on a terrible foundation. Bungie has put so many bandages over bullet holes and it shows.
Mark my words; the technical limitations of Destiny 2 are going to force Bungie to eventually make Destiny 3 i.e. Destiny - the MMO.
Content vaulting is fundamentally an unacceptable engineering shortfall and customer experience. If it's a necessary evil because of last gen consoles then it should be stated as such and there should be a roadmap to deprecating support and returning vaulted content to the game.
Oh yeah because everyone can just throw hundreads of dollars in a new console that is always sold out
@@lunatic-db6mp at some point old hardware can't be supported. PS5 games will come out without PS4 versions. The same thing happened in D1. There's always stuff like Series S which is trying to offer affordable options.
It is not last gen that is the issue, it is bungie and their old crusty engine that was made for games to run at max 30 fps and the same engine is from 1998 im pretty sure that is older than you.
@@lunatic-db6mp tf are you on about you child they did this with destiny 1 with old gen with rise of iron how bout you work for next gen and if you can’t afford it boohoo millions of people experience shouldn’t be ruined cuz you can’t afford it I had to deal with it when I didn’t have an Xbox one back in 2015 but I sucked it up and worked for it when I could
I didn't care abt content vaulting until they said they're taking away red war, and numerous missions were done on many planets, and now, looking back, the best thing d2 had was that plethora of content from multiple worlds was now, if you don't buy the DLC's you don't have much to do and as a PvE main having something to do is vast I mean at best I could do a dungeon or 2 strikes NFs' mabey a raid, but I always liked the options to go to Nessus titan mars mercury, etc. to go do any number of missions, and now those aren't available just my 2cents as 2019 d2 player
My biggest worry is actually about us losing Nessus. I know this is a location most people probably think is fine to remove, or that it’s not to important, but here’s the thing. There’s 19 activities in the strike playlist, 6 of them are on Nessus. There’s 4 Gambit maps, 1 on Nessus. There’s 23 pvp map, 2 on Nessus and 1 that has a lot of Nessus assets (Convergence). While the pvp maps and Gambit map are not guaranteed to leave (besides Endless Vale) the strike playlist would take a heavy hit from just this one destination.
Daily Forcer upvote
Plus Nessus is beautiful and one of my favorite looking places in destiny
I hope we get a Nessus 2.0. The leviathan has shown that they can update old destinations for a season, so maybe a vex themed season takes place on nessus and adds some more activities there. (Like a dungeon, some kind of six man activity, etc.)
I despise how utterly irrelevant Nessus is now in the story, especially since newer players aren’t going to have any idea who Cayde-6 is and why it’s a tragedy every time Ghost innocently mentions him. But, you definitely have a point.
While I don't particularly want to lose Nessus either, with the story stuff being completely removed, it doesn't necessarily serve a purpose. As for any playlist activity; Bungie has a sophisticated vaulting process now, and we see Titan and Mercury maps in both Crucible and Gambit. If Bungie wanted to keep those activity maps around, I'm pretty sure they could even if they vaulted Nessus as a patrol zone.
One of my biggest gripes is DLC not being supported on crossplay. Switching from console to pc between BL and WQ, you can't even use stasis unless the DLC is purchased again.
Vouch this ^^^ I just got a series S and I can’t do shit on it without paying again? I can’t even craft or reshape any VOW guns on my XBOX
It’s doubtful that Bungie is at fault for this lol. Most platforms get kickback from purchases, ps/Xbox/steam WANT you to buy it on THEIR platform. Let’s stay focused here, gang.
I'm pretty certain that's because you don't pay Bungie for DLC on consoles, you pay Sony / Microsoft, since seasons ARE cross-platform and are exclusively handled by Bungie.
Yep. Just had to pay for all the expansions again when I started playing on PS5. Ridiculous.
@@GoatSays I wouldn't be against paying for the 'legacy collection' its on sale frequently enough, but there isn't enough content to make it worth it. Every once in a while I can't get a certain item from Xur (no big deal), the biggest pain is when you can't play the nightfall on a double xp week.
It's hard to justify when there isn't enough content replacing the old stuff, we lost a lot of strikes and pvp maps and got 1 new map and 1 old one
It's not. The game was big with the vaulted content. It would be way too much taken space with everything in the vault.
This is not a gaming problem, or a hardware issue. Plenty of games have done this much longer than Destiny has been around.
It’s a Bungie problem that’s up to Bungie to actually fix, but it’s still a genuine problem.
@@legion4902 Then they should optimise the files better or find a better solution instead of nuking content we paid for at the end of each year
@@kryppo4245 i hope to god they eventually leave old gen behind cuz i can only imagine how much manpower that takes up
@@legion4902 It wasn’t/is not THAT big. For an unstable foundation that the game is built upon, yes it is.
That’s a very big distinction.
This game feels big if you’re jumping right in but it doesn’t take a whole lot of time to play through everything.
To grind the same things over and over again to get everything does but that’s not the same thing.
When you really stop and think about it, it's kinda insane that we a s a community allowed this to happen. I mean, they literally took things that we paid real money for, and totally removed it. That's kinda nuts. I love this game and have put up with it for better or worse. But when you think about any other game trying something like that, you realize how monumentally insane it sounds. Wow.
I don't know how we got to this point is mind boggling to me, the content you have paid for can be taken from you. And the worst part is people are justifying this types of actions. I don't think anywhere else in life this would work and we would be okay with it.
The excuse I get from die hards are "its not YOUR game you bought the rights to play the game did you not read the Terms of Service" I can't help but feel my brain cells die trying to comprehend that people aren't in an uproar about it
it is the "live service model". the best example i can think of is like Cable TV. You pay for the service not what the networks put on it. So if your favorite show is cancelled you do not get a refund for all the months and months you already paid. Destiny 2 and like service models are like that. Stuff rotates in and rotates out. Now PAID DLC is something different. That should ALWAYS be available because it is purchasing something to own. Like buying a digital movie. You can watch it whenever you want. I do not like seasonal live service that much, but its making them a ton of money so they will keep doing it lol
@@jmroz311 exactly, the seasons sure whatever let's be real you can cut them out and nothing would change really but all the actual expansions its just so shady lol
Tbh I couldnt care less about new player experience. If vet experience is meh, then its hard for new ones to be amused. This might be last year with D2. Sure dungeons and raids are fun to Play and crucible or GMs from time to time. But strikes and gambit is like 2of3 essential playlists that devs want me to Play every season with it being boring after few years with game.
Also bringing back the barebones version of Leviathan, that was sunsetted and now was sold again to me is just feeling...wrong
And then they re release it as "new". Like I can't play menagrie anymore but the weapons are locked behind a 10 dollar pay wall?
Worst part of content vaulting is bungie charging us twice for gear,content and locations they decide to bring back. Yes the leviathan was changed up but we already paid for that location along with most of the gear.
To be fair though, you aren't paying to access the Leviathan as that's free for all players, you're paying for the battle pass, story missions, and the newer loot.
But spending 80% of your time at an old location
@@timothymoore2966 Seasonal content has always just remixed old locations or assets though. I'm not saying that's great just that it's not really different to any other season.
I refuse to play Destiny for this reason. Vaulting paid content is unacceptable. Only reason I returned is cause I had just entered the PC Gaming sphere and a buddy of mine bought me the DLC for it so I actually been playing it again. But after I use up the DLC, I’ll retire from Destiny permanent.
@@Bsketches nothing is free, we're still paying for the devtime required to bring the leviathan back. sure, new players can access the leviathan for free, but you wouldn't buy the season if you only got the sever missions and the season pass. that's the only things you're technically paying for, but in practice you're paying for everything so others can get some content for free.
A friend of mine got into Destiny 2 recently. I told him it was a total mess for new people, but he really wanted to try. I had to write a 2 paragraph recap of all that happened and what he missed in the story. It’s ridiculous. The little “history” tab you can go to has bare minimum effort put into it. At least make the recaps more detailed. Another huge issue is just that they aren’t adding as much content as they’re removing. We had a lot of raids, interesting side activities like Forges, Menagerie, Reckoning, which we still don’t have newer alternatives to (Dares exists but it’s gotten pretty stale over time.) Awesome, unique exotic quests. The list goes on.
Omg didn't expect seeing you here
Exactly. And to think that they have the space to bring back D1 Raids while "needing" to remove all the D2 specific activities, raids, and locations 🤦🏿. Hell they can't even be bothered to update the EDZ (why/ how is the red legion even still a thing on earth?) but they can bring back [a fraction of] the leviathan as a patrol location with updated aesthetics? There's just so many weird decisions they've made with their content management over the years
When beyond light released, we had 11 pvp crucible maps taken out and so far, we have gotten 1 map back
@@ThePowerOfOneThePowerOfTwo They've said before that they messed up making them D1 and D2 as separate games. So I believe they're rectifying this by slowly bringing D1 into D2. Once they've done that, D1 will cease to exist. They probably won't admit that, but that's what I think they're doing. But what these dipshits don't get is, they're doing that at the expense of some great content that we all paid for at some time or another and alienating their player base in the process. Yeah, they might eventually succeed in combining both games but when once they're done, there won't be a player base around to play it.
@@URSoDead2Me I don't think they ever said anything about D1 and D2 being a mistake.
They have said they made mistakes on launch of D2, but that was the double primary and no random rolls they were referring to.
They aren't "bringing D1 into D2" they have converted 2 raids and the first 2 story missions from base D1. They also coverted 2 strikes.
They have since stopped migrating the assets from the cosmodrome because they realised that more or less, converting old single player content is a dumb idea that no one gives a shit about.
No one goes and plays the Navota strike more than once out of interest. It didn't add as much as new story and new plot would have.
I seriously would vouch for a “season of the health” or do something like last year where we just have a 6 month long season so they can spend more time and resources on upgrading their engine and bring content back. Roll it out on a monthly cadence or something to just bring everything back
Theres no point to bringing everything back tho. Not everything was good. We don't need bad content just for the sake of more content. Getting some things back would be cool but we don't need everything.
This sounds like a good idea in theory. But I honestly wouldn’t trust Bungie to do it.
It feels like they want to do the bare minimum to release something.
This season alone just shows me that they honestly don’t care about what the player base really wants but more of what’s the bare minimum players will accept.
Paul talks about how hard it is for him to tell people where to start. For me it’s not hard at all because the easy and logical answer is to tell them not to start it at all.
It’s just not worth it. And I don’t understand the logic behind it. One of the main goals of any franchise is to get new players playing. It’s safe to assume that’s one of Bungies main goals.
But their actions make it out like they hate new players. More than they hate current players. Lol.
@@nicholasgrogan856 It’s not good for us because we played it already over and over.
For a new player that content is very important. Hell tbh as someone who’s been playing since day one I want all it back.
When D2 was stale I went back and replayed all of D1. It was great because it had been years since I played it.
Nobody will ever be able to do that with D2. And that’s just insulting.
And it’s not like it hurts anyone to keep it in. The people that don’t want to play it again can just ignore it.
I thought beyond light was crap. So after I did everything I needed on Europa I don’t think I’ve ever gone back. But it doesn’t hurt anything that it’s still there. Hell I don’t think I’ve even loaded up the dreaming city in years lol.
@@ronnie3044 you contradict yourself when you say you would go back and play old content but then saying you haven't even loaded in to the old content that is still in the game.
@@nicholasgrogan856 LLLLLLLLLLLLL
I wouldn’t be as frustrated with bungie deciding to content vault things, if the vaulted content wasn’t still in the game. You can literally oob into overides and Niobe labs. This is unacceptable.
The DCV is a lie.
Can you please elaborate on this?
@@0421pyro The playable space for many of the activities in the DCV still exist in the game space. And it's possible to still get into them with going out of bounds to them.
@@Dinxster_ Oh dang. That is weird
@@Dinxster_ Apparently it's because the maps themselves don't take much space but the coding does you know stuff like pathfinding for a.i's the stuff that makes activities work the mechanics all that.
@@wintereclipse3263 Just goes to show how shitty Bungie's workflow is.
My son is finally old enough to be going through D1 and I HATE that once he finishes it, he can’t just jump right into D2 and play through all the content I played through.
man this game is in such a weird ass place right now. makes me nervous
very poignant and coherent vid paul. hopefully bungie starts making some better decisions
Right. Narratively it's in the best place it's ever been (as far as in game storytelling and dialogue). Gameplay and power fantasy is still as fun as ever. But contentwise, it's so disconnected and broken into pieces that it's completely pointless to play for anyone who hasn't been here for the long haul. Unless you're a new player who's here for the Destiny fashion, PvP, or the community memes, there's really no good reason to even play (unless you just want to play the game with your friends)
I played the Red War and really enjoyed it. Then I took a break from Destiny 2 (I didn't care for endgame content), but I kept buying the expansions to support the game and development because I planned on eventually coming back and playing those campaigns.
Then content vaulting (theft) happened and everything I paid for was removed. No other game does this. It's absurd.
I definitely feel Paul when he explains telling a new light where to start, I recently had two friends start Destiny 2 and I couldn’t tell them where to start, one of them was a F2P player and I honestly couldn’t tell them what to do apart from the playlist activities, nightmare containment, or world content
I'm a d1 vet and I hopped on my brothers acount to grind out for him and the intro is terrible and the game is just confusing
Tell them to do strikes, PvP, gambit and some nightfalls. After doing so, run dungeons and raids. Easy
@@mrlunar62 That content will not get them good enough loot for raids or dungeons, not to mention new players don't have access to any mods at all and even if they got carried through a raid or dungeon it won't be engaging for them at all.
@@brianderrisaw8011 not good enough loot? PvE isn't that hard man. They can def do it with loot they got from the core playlists. Its not optimal but its good enough.
@@brianderrisaw8011 wdym? Of course it will. World loot is insanely good. The best shotguns, snipers, rockets, swords, hand cannons, scouts r all free guns. U can’t be serious when u say that shit. And u don’t need god tier weapons for raids or dungeons. Hell, the first time I did a raid I had only blues. I wasn’t carried through it, but it was hella fun. So it is engaging for them.
Speaking from personal experience, if they’re looking to attract new players, the main story missions is the way to go (red war, forsaken, witch queen), because that’s how I got into D2 from the start. Playlist activities came AFTER the red war story mission. Then was the realization of pinnacle activities like dungeons and raids, which incentivized obtaining power through playlists. The path made sense, even though I never played D1. I stay for dungeons and raids and I’d really like for my friends to try D2 and enjoy them too, but without a clear path forward, it feels almost impossible.
this was how it was on destiny 1 as well. you play through the campaign (which was terrible but at least it was there) and then you move on to everything else. The fact i cant go play all the campaigns in order just makes me not care even a little bit about the story.
Content vaulting is stupid purely because it's removing content the players have paid money for, and making there be less things to do to keep the playerbase happy and entertained.
Not only are the getting rid of that content, they’re not replacing it-especially when it comes to strikes and crucible maps
The game can’t function without vaulting though????? The game would’ve came to a halt if it weren’t for vaulting.
Trying to understand what's happening here as I don't play Destiny. What kind of content are they removing?
@@iamcreamingbecause1061 Yes it can, consoles can always be separated into seasonal downloads, so all of Year 1 D2 could be Destiny 2 pack 1, year 2 could be pack 2 etc etc, and if you want to play old content you just download that pack and play it, then Uninstall it if you're low on HDD space.
I seriously doubt anyone playing on PC has space issues with their rigs, most laptops have expandable storage as well.
@@3sgtecelica when a new expansion releases they remove an older one to save space
Umbral engram focusing could have eventually been added to every destination. That would have easily given ppl a reason to grind patrols, adventures, etc on mercury, io, and the other old locations if they could farm random roll versions of that gear. Not everything has to be to be a dedicated end game experience or seasonal grind. Sometimes it's nice just to have little extra stuff to do.
That would have been amazing. it also makes sense narratively if you have pyramids invade every world... you need "dark" weapons to fight "Darkness".
yea considering that the vendor for vaulted exotics requires destination materials it would make loads more sense to have a focusing system so you could guarantee at the very least a weapon or armor piece, instead of wasting a ton of materials so you can get 5 poorly rolled pieces of armor
The number of times I see lapsed people saying "I'm not coming back to Destiny if they're going to continue taking away things I've paid for" is constant. It's honestly one of the main reasons people seem to drop and not come back. That alone makes it an important topic to "fix"
They do come back.
They complain but they're still playing.
@@marciotuca6961 but are they paying? i just downloaded the game and have learned about them removing conent. Will never buy any dlc again because they will just remove it anyway
@@marciotuca6961 Thats a broad assumption at best
Didn't play it since Forsaken and just came back and bought the latest DLC without knowing they removed content and now I'm really regretting buying it. I mean wtf is this ? Poeple payed for this and they just remove it ? I really don't want to support shit like that and they should at least compensate the Poeple who payed for the cut content
@@tharyx30 yeah just stop playing. ask for a refund if you can. There is literally no incentive to buying the dlc unless you are one of the losers that only play destiny non stop (idk how anyone does this with any game) because eventually you will just lose access to whatever you bought.
If you paid for the game at launch, there is now much, much less content in it for you than at launch. that's how much of a joke the destiny 2 model is.
I can't believe that they have been robbed of the opportunity to continue using the content that they had already purchased, it is unacceptable. For my part, I regret having entered D2 so late, because I would really like to be able to experience the original campaigns, and understand a little more without everyone telling me "you have to see the story on RUclips"" u.u
I really hope that if Bungie could open their ears to any one piece of constructive criticism it should be this video
There's gotta be some way they can add back the old story stuff, maybe make them individual downloads or something. Like Call of Duty does to save space for players they have separate download packs for the campaign, co op spec ops stuff, multiplayer and warzone downloads. I'm hoping after the derelict leviathan gets it time in the sun they can reuse it for bringing back the menagerie, maybe reissue some of the Black Armory weapons and some new ones as well.
100% agree with everything in this video. No matter how much I love destiny, I would never recommend it to someone. It’s incoherent and too riddled with transactions (from an outside perspective)
D2 seems to be better suited for players who were there from day 1, it's not at all for people who are new.
Bungie should never have removed the Red War from the game, that was a huge mistake.
I would recommend Destiny to someone if they plan on PLAYING playing it. I've put about 2000 hours into the game which is nothing compared to hardcore players. In my opinion if you get 100 hours of playtime for a $60 purchase, that's moneys worth. So I honestly fail to see how anyone with 5000 hours can feel robbed
I recently picked up D1 again and it’s so great to go back and play all the campaigns, personally I think vaulting campaigns and strikes and loads of other main content is really dumb, the amount of content they vaulted was crazy, D2 feels like it’s in the middle of nowhere atm, if I didn’t play D2 from the beginning I definitely wouldn’t start playing it now, hoping Bungie add content back in the legends tab or something, but I won’t hold my breath.
We are entitled to our stuff back though
@@dredgengam4610 Amen 🙏🏼
I admire that Bungie constanly adds new content through seasons, but to the same amount I despise that it all just disappears when the Season ends. I stopped playing after Forsaken and came back in Witch Queen, and was shocked to find out how much story I had to look up on RUclips. I didn't even know Seasons existed until finding out that they were already over.
in one respect I am happy about content vaulting, it cured me of my Destiny 2 addiction
Totally agree. Day 1 D1 player here sick and tired of Bungie and whatever it is that is going on in their minds. They are so disconnected from their playerbase it's astonishing. They don't exactly deserve our continued support anymore.
Content Vaulting has hurt the game in so many ways in the long term over what it “fixed” in the short term. There needs to be a solution to stop this crap. The new player experience is horrid. You can’t polish a turd.
The track at which Destiny sits at the top, is running thin. Yes the story is great, gameplay is still great but with all the gripes we have been dealing with, it’s only a matter of time. The “ever-evolving” world continues to just pull back and pull back which is just becoming more exhausting and hurts the entire player experience new and old. The game internally is actually a mess.
Bungie needs to just make a new game from scratch and keep it a narrative story with a beginning to end series of stories. If they don't then d2 will get progressively more and more broken and fragmented
In a world filled with External Hard Drives, the DCV is literally useless.
@@ResidentRecon89 THIS! I’ve been saying this for a while, and especially with the people that play this game, if you can afford to play this game, you can afford to get a hard drive, even if it isn’t a ssd, just a normal hard drive.
@@jungabunga4633 i wouldn’t mind if the game took up more space, i just wanna be able to access all the stuff i missed before beyond light
I used to be a big proponent for content vaulting, then my friend bought witch queen after not playing d2 since vanilla. The amount of story I had to tell him because it was mentioned in the wq campaign was really eye opening.
yeah i never played through the vanilla story. So ive just been dropped into witch king (havent bought it) and have literally no clue what is happening. It's even worse because there are some strikes i think that are old missions which just makes it even more confusing.
All campaigns should be available with several difficulty levels. Normal. Legendary (that they added for witch queen i think) and then impossible. Something that would encourage you to play through the missions again. If that makes sense.
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 I think something like the Halo skulls would be better instead of Impossible
@@cooly1724 yeah. just anything really that would add replay value to missions. Because they would in essence become like mini strikes.
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 there is smth like that with the weekly mission, it just adds champions and rewards
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 Bro it literally says witch queen right above your comment, how did you change it to king.
Agreed, Content vaulting causes confusion and content skipping. Empty the vaults, give us back the entire game. I would love to start over from the very beginning.
Get over it dad. Nobody wants to lose everything and start over. Bungie needs to make this old useless content available as "optional" download for new lights and people who can't get pass this "hurr durr content vault took my content away". Game isn't yours, you paid to access that content during its availability and that's it.
@@marciotuca6961 nigga I paid a full games price and more and it is now free with everything I bought removed except for the weapons. Hop off lmao
@@marciotuca6961 so if you buy a whole house, the banks should be able to take portions of it away whenever they want. We're playing by your logic here, dip.
If you buy a whole car. The manufactueres can come at anytime and take off the brakes and suspension because they're the ones that made it right?
Logic... who fucking needs it these days....
@@prometheusadept You're not paying for the right to live in a house or a car if you buy it, you're buying to own it and have property interest in these things, meaning they're yours to keep and do what you want with unless specifically stated otherwise. Games are a completely different ball-game, more specifically, digital and live service games, you own nothing, all you're doing is buying a licence to use content. I'll show you what you're agreeing to when you play Destiny 2: "Live Content may be altered, removed, deleted, or discontinued by Bungie at any time (e.g., upon termination of this Agreement and/or cessation of online support for the Program), even if you have not “used” or “consumed” the Live Content prior to alteration, removal, deletion, or discontinuation. Some Live Content, including without limitation, activities, maps, and gear, may be made available to players for only a limited time. Live Content has no monetary value and does not constitute property of any type."
@@DsgSleazy you are PAYING for the PRODUCT. It is very simple concept you are drastically trying to over complicate.
If I buy a digital game, it would be no different than me buying a physical copy of the game. If I bought god of war and year and a half later they decided to cut half of the game for no reason while I'm mid game... I'm going to be pissed.
This is exactly why Destiny 2 double dipping on monetization is so egregious. They charge for DLC and charge for all this cosmetic content, all while knowing the DLC has an expiration date as soon as it comes out.
I’d give anything to have the seasonal maps and activities back from season of the Splicer, much less the campaigns. Losing the Forsaken campaign stings, those were such fun miniboss runs and the tangled shore aesthetic was so unique to ANY game. I get that if they left it all in the game would be absolute chaos, and you would have to drop support for Xbox 360/PS4, but it still seems like stealing favorite content from right under my nose. Other games do not make their old expansion packs vanish when they release new ones
The tangled shore was one of the most useless destinations last year. It was dead. No one went there. Hence y it was safe to delete.
Same with forsaken. No one played it.
It still shocks me that they took out the entirety of the season of the splicer mission selection, but kept in battlegrounds, a much worse and much more stale activity than both expunge and the overrides
@@sadmanbradman7182 ouch yeah good point, the only thing battlegrounds had to offer was the giant enemy count and Bungie learned the wrong lesson by just upping the enemy count in everything else.
@@mrlunar62, my money usefulness is not in your judgement.
From what I have read in Australia at least content vaulting is not technically legal for them to remove paid for content and we could possibly seek financial compensation for it
Would be nice if someone pushed them on it
Final Fantasy 14: A game that literally wiped it's Base Game away, then has built itself back up since 2010, Has not removed content, has added Large DLC's every 2 years with QoL, Quests, and events etc between them.
I get content Vaulting, but FF14 makes is Null and Void
And even then the content that 14 DOES remove is filler to help improve the new player experience
@@kryppo4245 Has it removed Filler? Playing thre new just a few months ago, the filler between the large expansion is still there, heck, it was something i complaied about between Base and Heavens Ward, the huge chain quest linking the 2 stories XD
@@koizumiizumi5426 it’s mainly ARR (I also started around the end of spring and start of summer) as that’s the main hurdle bfr the rly good stuff kicks in (it was rushed as they had no hopes for the game succeeding)
Big fan of Destiny from the day it finally released on Steam. But now, I'm looking at the amazing experiences I'm having on FF7 Remake, Elden Ring, etc... and the content vaulting + activity grinding + rough RNG + terrible new player experience of D2 tastes bitter and bitter each passing day. Right now, my game time got so much thinner, I'm barely gonna be able to complete the Season Pass for this season.
I was 100% on board for the decades-long Destiny saga. Now I'm questioning my decision to even invest on the next year.
restore all destinations, strikes, gambit maps, and pvp maps.
restore all paid campaigns- vanilla and paid dlc but not seasonal story missions.
all seasonal activities and stories SHOULD be removed upon the next paid expansion as they currently have been, but with a twist that is detailed below.
rename the vanguard ops playlist to “vanguard skirmish” and add former 3 player seasonal activities (forges, psi-ops, etc) to the strike playlist as they did with battlegrounds.
add a 6 player “big battle vanguard playlist” that randomly launches vex offensive, sundial, menagerie, override, astral alignment, etc AND with that seasonal activity’s respective loot with fan favorite perks along with refreshed perk pools, and not at sunset levels.
strange coins dropping from all playlist activities with a cap of 99. when xur appears on fridays he sells a seasonal gear grab bag with 1 random rolled weapon and armor (for transmog purposes). this bag costs 33 coins, and can buy 3 each week- one for each character class.
strike specific loot and skeleton keys like the final year of D1.
with rotating featured weekly raid and dungeon, add a WEEKLY MISSION (whisper, zero hour, hawkmoon, presage, vox) which will drop a +2 pinnacle.
for players who missed any season, have all cutscenes from seasonal stories added to the director tab that explains the timeline (the campaigns would be restored, so playing through them unlocks those cinematics here to view again).
Glass needles to reroll exotics armor stats. I miss those.
Love how the technical answer they gave for the DCV was, as you pointed out, for hardware and performance reasons, yet I and many others have noticed a DECREASE in performance since the implementation of the DCV
The technical problems they fixed with the vaulting process wasn't just fps Performance
Load times where drastically improved
Enemy density is WAY higher across the board since the DCV
The ability to add more complex and larger content quickly was improved
And the ability to issue bug fixes and rebalance patch more effectively and quickly.
In a old TWAB they mentioned how it was a slow and painful process to fix Simple shit until they reconfigured the game's framework
(rember how Long it took for them to fix pvp issues? And add new content)
@@stingray12323 dude, Bungie's ability to fix bugs is nonexistent. Just this last week, the servers crashed and when they came back up, a bug was present that prevented guardians from matchmaking with one another. For over 24 hours there was no crucible, no gambit, none of any playlist that required matchmaking. You could attempt to join on your friends but the game would crash and you would get booted if you used your super or grenade one time...not to mention, the duality bell bug which causes the entire fireteam to wipe while performing the mechanics CORRECTLY has existed for 2 entire seasons at this point. They attempted to fix it at least once and failed. Bungie is incompetent, period end of story.
Here’s an idea. How about using a brand new engine and not use the same Tiger engine that was use for over 10 years. End Destiny 2 and start on Destiny 3. Like what Paul Tassi stated, Call of duty has had a bunch of content added in and you can still play it so there is no need for Content Vaulting. For Bungie to say “ We don’t have the capacity for new content “ should be rephrased as “ We don’t have the capacity because of our outdated server and engine will not allow it or can not handle it”. This whole content vaulting went from saving the story of destiny to Repackaging content for players to pay for again.
I came in at Season of the Haunted and knew literally nothing about any of the characters. My first question was "Who the hell is The Crow?" to which my friend told me the entire story behind Forsaken and Uldren Sov to which I replied "Man thats cool, wish I could've played that." Come to find out I could've had I played the game just like a year prior.
And of course there's so many items in the DCV I literally cannot get at all. So many times have I seen armor or a weapon and thought "That looks so cool how do I get that?" only to find out its from from an old season and is no longer obtainable. Why aren't old armor ornaments obtainable now anyway? Why can't I go down to Ada, Spend a few Synthcord and buy the old seasonal ornaments like the Legatus set, or the Interlaced set or the Psionic Speaker set? Why not put them in the Eververse and make 'em like $5? You know how many people would buy the Legatus stuff for Titan just because of the funny banana looking helmet? A whole lot more than you'd think.
Man I just wanna go back to the old campaign playlist and do runs of 1AU. Such a cool looking mission from the red war campaign. My favourite.
CONTENT VAULTING HAS BEEN VAULTED WOOOOO!!!
I played Destiny 2 around the launch and couple of years from then on and off. I think I stuck around 2 expansions and quit. Now I wanted to return to the game and was excited to roll a new char and kill Gary and do some mars missions.
Gone over to steam, bought all the expansions I could and installed the game.
When I launched the game I was like. Wtf. what is this new tutorial mission. Quick google search and learned about vaulting.
I just refunded Beyond Light, Witch Queen and Lightfall for around 100€.
If Bungie does not want returning players so be it.
Good on u (not being sarcastic), the game has reached a point where it is built upon benefitting only bungie and not towards satisfying their playerbase anymore
It is why I uninstalled and never looked back, any company that does stupid absurd crap like this I have never played again. Wish more of the population was in the same mindset. Devs don't care unless the gamers unite, and sadly so many gamers would rather attack other gamers to fight for why a game is playable to them instead of just accepting the shitty practices and boycotting them so we actually got good AAA games for once. Its been over 10 years for me since a really great AAA game dropped that I really enjoyed for a decent amount of time. Most games have all been copy pasted content in all games for over 10 years now. This rant is also cause I am salty with D2, I had all 3 classes maxed within week 1 of release and loved the first year of content. But I had to leave it for a few years to tackle other things, and I did so under the understanding of all of previous games that I can play through the new campaigns and storylines. But when I came back all my classes were in all new gear and light levels with no explanation as too wth was going on. Several main NPCs had apparently died and it was just a big let down to me that I could not play the game. Anytime I posted or talked about it I just got spammed that I should go watch some 8 hour video explaining all the content that had been vaulted and then I would be caught up. I don't want to be caught up on the story I want to play the story I paid for.
I feel like content vaulting affects everyone not just new people. I want to go back to go old raids, strikes, actually good gambit maps. They removed arguably the best stuff in Destiny and that’s why it’s very very easy to get burned out. What is there to do? I don’t want to do the treadmill anymore. I just want to do a raid. I want to play some fun strikes. It’s all gone. I’m not a game designer or whatever but they neeeed to upgrade the engine or something. Otherwise I feel like a lot of people including me will just play 1-2 hours a week and leave. I have every title in the game. And I’m so burned out I can’t even grind the solstice seal. It’s bad. We need something. Literally anything else to do
I agree but also you are a huge outlier in the player base, less than 2% of players have even a single seal/title unlocked. They can’t make enough content for someone who’s playing at that level (congrats on all the titles)
@@MichaelEilers Exactly. I don't think majority of the player base even has the amount of time to keep up with seasonal content as well as grind seals, especially if they're playing other games in between time as well. I do think it's still a travesty that they removed all those raids, strikes, and maps along with other relatively popular activities such as menagerie and Black armory stuff along with the loot associated with it
I'll admit, I got into Destiny very late (Beyond Light, yes, I know, I missed a LOT) my friend that actually got me into it has been playing since its release and would constantly reference things from past seasons that I didn't get to experience, I would love to be able to go play through all that vaulted content, especially for new players now, it's like watching a TV series, but starting in the last season of the series 😐
I played Destiny on and off the tiniest amounts since 2014. Season of the Splicer was when I got hardcore into Destiny. I definitely wish I was invested enough to catch the full extent of the Opulence season. Sadly at the time Destiny just didn't speak to me fully no matter how good Menagerie was. Man do I regret it lol
Red war is essential as a introduction to destiny 2. I was so lost as a returning player. Red war also tugged on my heart's strings as a Destiny 1 player, the tower going down and having to walk through the rubble, shooting wolf's as a normal mortal. It was great, much better than what ever the heck I recently had as a intro
You shouldn't get past Content Vaulting. Even if alot of people don't go to the Tangled Shore, it was still part of PAID CONTENT, that they removed.
Alot of Destiny fanboys give Destiny way too much leeway. Christ, we've even gotten to the point where we have $10 event passes, in $10 seasons, in $10 Dungeons, in $40 expansions on top of $10-$15 skins in the in-game shop....
Literally a Mobile Game
I loved the shore.
Just gonna add a bit of balance here. The event passes are literally just a couple of cosmetics. You're missing literally nothing. The cosmetics will even become available for bright dust down the line. $10 season pass to last you for 3 months is hardly robbery. The dungeons are more than worth the money. They are the next best thing besides Raids. Of course expansions are worth the money I mean come on. Only the seasonal content is the content that has been slacking as of late. The real problem is content vaulting. They said they won't be vaulting content anymore besides seasonal content. It's not realistic to expect 20 seasons of content to stay in the game.
I agree, I think yearly expansion content should always be there and seasonal content can disappear. They could put that loot into xur or even the store. New content is better when there is balance.
They do put weapons and armor in Xur inventory bud
@@prestonlewis5002 not much, they have plenty pf seasons to pull guns and armor from and we get more current season guns than vaulted.
@@prestonlewis5002 Not as much as people would want.
I'd rather have it where he can sell something unobtainable from certain activities no longer in the game (AKA Trail's of the Nine, maybe) for a decently "expensive" price in resources, the exception being if the activity is coming back in the near future.
@@prestonlewis5002 they give xur all the garbage. They could easily put in old ornaments for some kind of currency but naw
Content vaulting is absolutely fucked, and it's honestly abhorrent to see so many people defending it. Especially with the DLC vaulting, you have to be kidding me, you paid for it and they stripped it from the game, how can you be okay with that.
Good video. I can't begin to tell you how many friends tell me, "I cannot get into Destiny 2." They explain that It's a complete mess . I have seen first hand that the new player experience is difficult in a way that us veteran players don't see. We're used to navigating the UI and we understand the game loop. I managed to get my niece into the game because I was her sherpa. I can't do that for everyone .
yeah the new light experience just sucks because bungie themselves are not willing to teach and rely on us to sherpa people like your niece. one of my friends recently got his brother into the game and our clan is trying to help him. took him through VoG on his first day of destiny... and we didnt do too bad, as a sherpa for him through the raid, i just wanted to have fun with the game while it is fun.
And how new players are supposed to get mods is horrible.
Build crafting has made this even worse. When I show up in Cosmodrome and do a public event next to a level 2 new light wearing blue armor, it must just seem insane to them that I can clear out the entire event with infinite explosive throwing knives, outrageously powerful exotics, and have triple 100 stats that allow me to throw 3 supers per event, never take significant damage and always have my ability up. Yeah, they can get there eventually, but it’s taken me so much time, effort, RUclips video watching, and getting familiar with so many different game systems over time. To think I would show up n00b and realize everyone else is basically a god and the game does NO hand holding to get you there AT ALL.
@@Fadedagent64 they also lean HEAVILY on RUclipsrs to fill in all the gaps and explain everything, even the TWAB. You have to watch 2-3 hours of content a week, it’s just lazy to offload all that work to them - and don’t get me wrong they are awesome, I think D2 has some of the best content creators and streamers out there - but if someone DOES NOT watch these guides and explainers, they are totally in the dark.
@@MichaelEilers that is also a very strong point.
I think after playing 800 hours of destiny, im honestly not interested in the game anymore. if I have to keep shelling out $60-$80 every 6 months to a year, and then old content gets forgotten/abandon, when it can be reworked into newer things. Rather then constently asking for players for more money and vaulting content, weapons, and old planets at the expense of some genius in the marketing department, is just demoralising to all player thats played the game since inception. It was fun while it lasted for me, but I think im better off not playing destiny for a long time. Just my 2 cents.
I get both sad and nostalgic revisiting destiny 1. On the one hand, I love replaying the game that started it all. But on the other hand I think about how I can’t do this with destiny 2.
Me and my cousin just downloaded Destiny 2 last night and were really looking forward to playing it since I never played D2 (only D1), and he hadn't played D2 since its release. We were confused when the very first mission was essentially the first mission of D1 and honestly thought they had ported D1 over. Regardless of that we were still having fun and were looking forward to playing the story and we were considering buying the DLC's. It wasn't until we got to the tower where realized that that was the story, and there was no Ghaul. We had no idea what to do next since the game gave us no direction. Now I find out that we can't even play the DLC's if we were to buy them.
How is this okay?? How do people still play this game??? I loved and no-lifed D1, but it doesn't matter how much I love Destiny's story and lore, I'm not supporting this bs and I have no idea how anyone can call themself a Destiny fan.
Just follow loretubers. That's pretty much the only real preservation of the story. The game is a soulless shell of busy work.
Can we sue them for removing all the content we originally paid for? I haven’t played since curse of Osiris and not seeing any of the original planets is the most disorienting things ever lol. Like I don’t even know where to start.
I think Warframe is a good example of what Destiny 2 should’ve done. No content vaulting of any kind, releasing content fairly regularly, all without locking it behind pay walls.
They dont vault content anymore
I just tell them not to get into destiny 2
I deadass was gonna play this game, but I remembered how they vaulted content, so thanks for letting me know to not touch it with a 10 foot pole.
I know this is a late comment, but what I hate the most is that they will vault the content and then sell it back to us. It's literally the equivalent of being cuc*ed (just making sure this word doesn't get censored but it's obvious what it is)
It would be nice for them to add a “install extra content” button to either keep old content, or at the very least allow personal instance based story content, like the red war campaign. It’s a perfect introduction to the game. Then have a cutscene after explaining what happened in arrivals. Or immediately lead into forsaken.
I definitely think 90% of stuff shouldn't be vaulted. I do think stuff like splicer and list's 6 player activities can easily be thrown in the DCV and not detract from the actual experience.
No of it should be vaulted, even recluse and mountain, I dont care what bullshit "balancing" excuse the player base uses.
Warframe doesn't sunset your gear or take out locations and content, why would they lol.
The fact bungie are removing content under the guise of "the game will be too big and unstable" is big suss in my eyes.
What makes me laugh is how lazy they are, the fact they can just add the levvy back with a reskin, not even add new enemies, only 5 "new" weapons that are basically reskins too, and yet the fan base praises and wanks off everything they do.
They even added a new dungeon that was again locked behind yet another pay wall, Bungie do the bare fucking minimum yet take the maximum cost possible.
Playing warframe again for the first time in 4 years reminded me at how laughably lack the content in D2 really is.
In destiny 2 I have all the vow raid gear crafted, I am now waiting on the exotic to drop, 30 weeks on still nothing,. it see no gain or progress with my grind, just 2-3 hours a week for literally nothing while little jimmy gets it on his Sherpa.
In warframe I actually see results and progress with my grind, I looked up how to get a Necramech and it took about 8 days of grinding and I actually had fun with it.
@@WaveForceful I'm not reading all of that:) Time to take an internet break I think
The main problem is that we are paying for this content then they remove it and sell it to us again with some spores stuck all over the place. It’s starting to get under my skin.
It can’t be a permanent solution, or if it is, then it can’t actively gut the game in these awkward ways that hurt retaining players and onboarding players.
There’s got to be a better way
Edit: also, I can’t say the content we’ve been getting outside of expansion missions is something I’d go back and replay like a single player campaign in other games. WQ is the first time I would… and that’s about it.
I very recently tried to get my friends into the game. They did the New Light missions and the free missions of Witch Queen, and... that's it. I got them into a run of Prophecy when another game was giving us technical errors, so Destiny was sometime to fall back on. There are basically two options if they want to even get into the game.
One is to get them into a VoG or KF with basically no other experience in the game (although KF would require some shitty, boring grinding to get Power levels). Two is to convince them to buy Witch Queen, which is difficulty considering the incredibly poor offerings that the free-to-play section of the game has to offer. One of my friends had played up to and including Forsaken, and you can imagine he isn't happy about the fact that most of what he paid for is just gone.
To be honest I just don’t like someone taking what I paid for.
Well, now you don’t have to worry.
This has been my concern since day 1 and my stance on vaulting being a negative thing for the game has never changed. It's ridiculous to remove content people payed for and content that helps keep players around. Almost my whole friends list dropped off once vaulting was introduced. Beyond light launch period really pushed so many players away, Self included until witch queen. Even now, vaulted content is something that continues to hurt the game.
I highly appreciate that you have opened up about these issues. This is really sad that Bungie taking my/our paid stuffs.
I'm glad people are also bringing this back to the spotlight.
If destiny wants to pretend to be an mmo it needs to look at doing the bare minimum and understand the weaknesses of its competition. Warframe has vaulted content, some of it good, most of it mediocre, some of it bad. But all it had vaulted was minor 5 minute episodes of character interactions between nobodies. The biggest thing this hurts is story continuity but after long enough you just need to make sure the major markers make sense. Warframe also vaulted raids, and we have no idea when they're coming back (half of us think they've been forgotten) but we know when they come back it'll be with a new one as they'll have been retooled. So let's wrap it up. Warframe has vaulted 3 raids and a bunch of old events. What has warframe not vaulted? They haven't vaulted the second dream, unlike how bungie vaulted forsaken.
What I'm saying is a good first step to becoming an mmo lite is to understand what the best one out there is doing
I would gladly buy a hard drive for my Xbox solely for d2
I love D2 a lot, but if I was a dev and all of my hard work would eventually be wiped from existence with not a single way to ever experience it again, I don't see how I couldn't be upset
Totally agree with you on the new light experience. Destiny is my favorite game and I'll never recommend anybody start it fresh because unless you're crazy like me and just buy the deluxe edition expansion every year without fail, the payment model and the in game beginnings are so complicated it's not worth it imo.
And poof, now it’s gone.
They could've just did what they did with Destiny 1 on Xbox 360, Just don't update it anymore on last gen consoles, simple as that
I'm happy to hear someone is raising this issue instead of praising Bungie for bringing back what was already paid for.
So year one of Destiny in 2014-2015 I put in around 1300 hours into Destiny, I loved it and the potential it had. I went through vanilla, The Dark Below and House of Wolves.
I loved the HoW period, we had VOG from Vanilla, Crota’s End and Trials from TDB and Prison of Elders from HoW. Two raids, a pvp and three person wave mode as your end game content (and nightfalls). Lots to do, and POE even dropped material to keep your old gear up to the latest power level.
Then The Taken King came, that content wasn’t removed, but it was useless. Weapons like Hawkmoon (which was a PS exclusive don’t forget were changed XB players never got to use that gun in its original form) and Gjahlerhorn were left behind, even if you never got it, tough luck it’s now useless for end game content. Bad luck I guess.
I lasted five weeks of TTK, it just felt like this game which had struggled for so much of its first year had become so small again.
I never played Destiny again, when New Light came out I tried it, then Forsaken, SK and BL when they came to gamepass. Destiny 2 has many of the same problems apart from now they nickel and dime you at every turn.
It amazes me people think Bungie will change, just the same conversation ever year for eight years. Insanity.
Exactly
thank you for pointing out the obvious. It's time to let this franchise die. Its over milked
Rise of Iron and the April Update added more to it before it led into old content becoming relevant again via the final event of D1, the Age of Truimphs Event, the old raids, the strikes, the crucible maps & Prison of Elders became viable again, in its final state its as good as it can be.
D2 however?......yeh its messy, now with even more excessive monetary nonsense.
@@jonathandear4914 yeah I heard about all that, but I’d already tapped out. TTK for all it’s improvements left me cold.
And then they did the exact same thing with the launch of D2.
Coming back after a few years it was insane how much micro transactions are pushed, how bad the nightfall and strike playlists were, even crucible was worse.
So it's one year later and lightfall has launched to a horrible story along side some other issues that have built a somewhat breaking point for the community. Some of the issues like power creep is still there or worse since now you can just make your own weapons, There still server issues even after removing content, the playlist are even staler now with less content coming out to fill the void that the vault created, as for storage size it's was better but now is back up to roughly 100 GB...
I mean any who defended content vaulting well it doesn't look like it worked out well cause the game still has those problems. The lost of content honestly didn't really fix anything just made it all the worse for everyone...
Really don’t see why they can’t give us a way to just choose what to have in the game and what not to have if they’re worried about game size. Just treat it like halo MCC dlc, picking and choosing which activities and destinations you keep
I am no expert and unfortunatly have no source but they explained a while back why they couldn't approach it this way. Vaulting is a thing mainly due to manpower problems on their end than space optimization on ours. Still having everything would be great for us but nullify the reason why they chose to implement the dcv. Hope eventually the sony money helps out on that front but i don't see it happening anytime soon
@@MATT-660 one of the main reasons they actually won’t do it is because of legacy console support. The legacy consoles still have insane load times now even with the game gutted. The solution to this is one they’ve already tried in the past that worked quite well, cut support to the legacy consoles like they did in rise of iron. It’s not fair that PC and current gen console players suffer because Bungie won’t risk losing that income stream even though it would greatly benefit the game and the player base.
@@HodorGamingTV yeah i said this in another comment. Hope to god after lightfall they just stop caring about em. Am sorry for our friends on old gen but it HAS to happen eventually
Maintenance on that much code and that much content is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to maintenance on that much code. [sic]
Any time you choose to keep something in the game there is a cost, the bigger your code base the larger the task, by keeping a "constant" size to the code that they keep in the game then they keep that maintenance at a "constant" size.
The DCV is effectively damage control to ensure that Bungie can maintain whatever is in the game at the moment at a consistent level of quality and update old activities such as Raids to bring them up to date.
@@DavidManser The problem is that damage control isn't working because they aren't updating things in order to bring them back. What have we gotten back? We got a raid from D1, The Cosmodrome plus it's strikes, and the Leviathan as a new destination (which, since it's a seasonal destination, buh-bye!) What's happening with the rest of it? What happened to the PvP maps? Why haven't we actually gotten enough content to replace what we lost?
Not a fan of vaulting at all. The game is just a mess for anyone starting out or returning. I bought The Witch Queen but haven't played since Beyond Light and I have absolutely no motivation to even finish the campaign because I have no idea what's going on. I know Destiny isn't an MMO but it's kind of like one and part of the magic of these games is being able to step into a huge and ever-growing world. Did they get rid of sunsetting? Just returned to the game and tried to upgrade my favourite weapon (The Old Fashioned), not because it was overpowered or a god roll but I just love the aesthetic, sound design and feel of it but now it's a "legacy" item and can't be upgraded above 1350.
Also, the strike playlist just feels so small. I got the same strike 3 times in a row last night.
The technical reasons are not our problem. It's down to Bungie's poor design / lack of future planning. If they had built D2 to last, rather than plan to release D3 we probably wouldn't have vaulting.
Man I tried to get my Brothers into destiny and it was painful. They would see me running shattered throne and then hopping into Vow and in order for them to play those they have to pay a lot, including paying for a tiny chunk of forsaken without the campaign
They should have just made a D3 starting with Beyond Light.
This could have kept D2 as was, just how D1 is kept.
Bringing back D1 content is just lazy to me and is just filler content.
The "free to try model" isnt working, because it has allowed Bungie to be very very very lax on the core content of the IP due to it.
I imagined the Destiny franchise to sort of be like the Mass Effect Trilogy,
a continuing story that can be revisited when you wanted. I would of like to replay the whole saga in continuation when it was all done.
With D2 as it is, that can never happen.
Folks can still play D1in its entirety, but only about a third of D2.
As you stated the new light player has no idea what the heck is going on based on the past tense of the universe outside of watching a lore/storyline youtube video.
That's why i cannot call this an MMO or an RPG as Bungie just brings all of the new light players up to the current state of affairs in game due to the content vaulting.
It makes it as much as an RPG or MMO as a COD game, outside of the loot collecting. Its why i just call it a Co-Op looter shooter with alot of fluff inbetween.
COD has as much Campaign missions as Destiny has story missions...probably more if you count Zombies.
COD has Co-Op instanced gameplay, just as Destiny does.
You have bounties in both, its just that Destiny has them retrieved. CoD has Daily in PvP just in the menu.
Sure you can traverse more in Destiny, but that gets old after a couple of weeks so much that it has to be forced on you through the light level grind. Its been months since ive went to Nessus outside of a strike.
Destiny as it stands today is a lake wide, but only a foot deep.
The free raids, zero hour, and whisper missions were the reasons I was able to convince a group of friends to hop onto Destiny. We still talk about how much we miss those activities and worse, nothing to date has matched that experience.
Content vaulting is BS... ESO has been out for longer and you can still play the base game still... Just crazy
I recently got into Runescape after remembering it from childhood and having a few friends who still play after 20 years. I don’t think it handholds you too much and all the quests for the story are still there. I can choose to interact with it or not (I can just guess my way through skilling and get to the PvM activities). They went back roughly 6 years ago and reprised all of the original quests giving them spoken dialogue and updated looks. But they’re still there. I can follow the story from the start (which is what I’m slowly doing) even though I have already been able interact with special player events and endgame activites around the world. I don’t know what it will take for that to be possible in Destiny 2, but I would LOVE to see all of the content come back after the final shape (or sooner if possible).
I'm so glad I quit this game a year or so lost release.they just kept on nerfing shit and now with the removal of old content, I'd definitely would've quit if I'd stuck around. It's just not fun to play a game knowing the stuff you laid for is becoming less effective and in this case, being removed entirely. They've made bad decisions with this game al throughout its life span and I'm amazed it's still up and running.
As a new player, I have no connection to any of the vanguard, apart from they send you on missions, I have no idea why a ghost brought me back to life just to fight a war.
I only know who cayde is because of watching videos on RUclips.
There are things which came with the DLCs I paid for which are locked to me and can no longer get, Shaders , sparrows etc.
Cant buy the older weapons because you cant buy weapons or armour with random roles. You can only buy the training gear.
I feel so left behind I'm confused at what I should be doing mission wise and in which order.
I'm so confused and feeling lost, I'm starting to become disheartened with the game.
I miss Mars and Black Armory the most out of all the vaulted content....
So glad you mentioned the whisper mission and zero hour. They were for me a couple of the best things about destiny. RIP
I want those back...
Paul, you are such a great journalist that you try to find ways to discuss your issues without burning bridges and connections. Obviously, you are not on board with this cycle Bungie has perpetuated. You are expressing yourself as nicely and calmly as possible; especially in light of Bungie dealing with harassment from the community.
However, this thing Bungie is doing with content vaulting doesn’t warrant the “kiss slap kiss” method. This is a topic they need to hear loud and clear from those with the loudest voices. As players, our money is wasted and this is causing feelings of disdain and disconnection. Period. We paid for D1. We paid for D2. Now we’re paying for them to remove content from D2 and pay for them to reintroduce content from D1. This is practically a scam. I read the twabs and saw the vidocs and streams. I’ve read the tweets and understand why they “claim” this is necessary. But from a monetary perspective, we have been paying Bungie to take stuff away from us and it has to stop. And that’s just from one point of view. You hit the nail on the head for the new players and the lack of clear pathway to understanding the games story and play loop.
I love your points, Paul. But I wanna remind you that this affects returning players too. I have a number of friends that do not wanna play the game because the sunsetting of the STORY. The thought of seasonal story missions along with expansions being deleted makes them not want to even touch the game. Story matter too, and no youtube story video is gonna fix that.