I just purchased a ZEN 3 and it runs circles around a SCHITT MANI 2 pre. Much higher output than the MANI. MUCH lower hiss. And people do not need to buy the $79 "quiet' power supply. I fell for it and did not notice any reduction in hiss with the stock power supply. I am super happy with my Nagaoki MP110 MM magnetic cart.. Everybody is at the audio altar praising the Ortofon RED or BLUE upgrade stylus. I might buy an Ortofon just to join the crowd and let me ears determine.
There is no purity in any signal chain. A subsonic filter helps your amp to better control the speakers, not to use it, is a mistake. The bass you hear and feel is 40hz and above, no sub filter touches these.
Clean analog signal path for me please...especially with dragging a diamond rock chip hanging off a magnet, inside of a plastic groove. Great video Rick.
It's kind of funny saying "this little magic button over here changes something you can't hear'. Sort of hard to prove it's not working exactly as intended. (I do get the ... premise... that it can effect your perception of the sound...but you could say the same about changing the color of your VU meters).
a few things: oh man, subsonic filter is a very useful feature. that and mono. man those allow for a far cleaner listening experience. its not inaudible when those woofers are pumpin away! warp is one thing. rumble filter is much more important, esp with some pf the poorly made turntables like project debut carbon. rumble interferes with clarity of signal. subsonic filter removes some.
Hi Dominic. I would recommend either one but for different reasons. If you are looking for a simple phono stage, go with the Zen. If you want more control over the sound and the ability to adjust it or take advantage of some of the bells and whistles it has, the Waxwing is the way to go. They are really targeting slightly different users (who all love vinyl!).
My Zen Air phono's subsonic filter was cut out a lot of bass, so once i tried it i immediately turned that off and never use it again. I realized one important thing, if your record doesn't sound good, double check your tt settings, especially anti-skate. If your VAT is 1.5 for example it doesn't mean that 1.5 anti-skate will be perfect. Absolutely not! You have to set anti-skate with an empty disk, no other way to do this. And thank you as always, Rick!
Thanks Max! I always set anti-skate with the Wallyskater now. The old “set it to the same as the VTF” isn’t accurate. When it is it’s a happy coincidence
If it is an active filter, then it will add its character and its distortion to the signal's quality. If it is a passive filer, then it should not harm the signal's quality. However, any additional circuitry will alter the signal's quality, even if that additional circuitry is set 100% to neutral. So there might be some harm, that none of us can hear. If we cannot hear it, then it is effectively not there (at least on the stereo we are using -- it might be noticeable on a more revealing system). Audio quality is a set of compromises. If your amps are relieved of reproducing inaudible low frequencies, and your speakers are not trying to reproduce such difficult frequencies, then the results of that filter should be positive. It all boils down to how well that filter is designed, and how revealing your system is.
Hello, is it possible to input listening sources beside turntables (DAPs, laptops) on this Zen Phono? As my listening room is not dedicated to turntables. Thanks for answering. I'm a beginner in vinyl collecting. Love your channel.
I'm not surprised that the Zen Phono 3 is a good piece of equipment. I have an Ifi Hip dac portable headphone amp that sounds terrific! They seem to make some fine products in the affordable range. Nice music choice as well. I haven't listened to Billy Squire in a while. When I do, I can't help also playing some Pat Benatar and Quarterflash as too.
Good afternoon Rick ☕️ I’ve used a few IFI products, all have been excellent. I may add this …just for future purposes.. Take care and enjoy the Sunday.
An aside comment: You talked about the desire for purity of sound. I am not against that approach but as you said( my paraphrase) it is an unobtainable target. As you have said, its about the aesthetics of the listening experience. For that reason I have a graphic equalizer in my system. There is one feature that was on 70's and 80s integrated amps I really miss; a loudness button/switch. It was, according to some advertisements removed for the "Purity of sound" On my system( modern amp), to really get good imaging the volume knob has to be turned up to levels that share the music with my neighbors( we are on good terms). When listening to Arkona, Wagner, The Hu, Black sabbath, AC/DC and a few others, I oft think think a loudness button would be much more neighborly.
I enjoyed my ZEN Phono 3 during the times it worked, but unfortunately had to return it because of the defective power button issue. I know some people don't like the styling, but I think it has a very cool '50s vibe to it and makes me think of my dad's 1957 Chrysler New Yorker back in the day. But I'm enjoying my Pro-Ject Phono Box DS3 B phono pre-amp I exchanged it for. Question: When did you replace the KT-88 tubes with the new Psvane Horizon tubes?
Wow - you’re observant! That’s going to be a subject of a video soon. Want to make sure my impressions are honest and not based on only a few hours. Popped them in earlier this month.
Hej Rick Thanks for another interesting video. I recall you had a Vincent PHO-701 a while ago. How does PHO-701 stack up against iFi Zen Phono 3 and Aric Super MM Phono Stage? I know there is a big difference in price between these units, but anyway...
Hi Staffan! If I had to rate them it would be: 1. Super MM (by far) 2. PHO-701 3. Zen Phono 3 That was rated based on my listening experience - definitely not by price although it did land that way. There are others I could throw in but that's how I'd rate those 3
I do everything straight from The Wireing supplied. I do not use filters, But I do use true four track. and thsi goes for remastering LP,45, transcription disks 78's... what I have found, is that most systems about 99% today are stereo phonic or mixed stereo and mono.. you do not hear the true mix. Mono should not be heard on both speakers. but one speaker should be empty, unless the seccond channel holds unedited or edited out chatter or etc. that was not omitted during the editing process. Cd's hold this feature a lot of times! the beatles Lps on cd IE with the beatles(mono) hold what sounds like they are transferred from 78 rpm disks. which may be very possible. but you would not know this, if I did not let you in on this odd detail. other albums in mono also hold studio chatter and etc. some where a cut is made and a new take is started. or just studio chatter. and other artifacts. Stereo, unless recorded in true stereophonic - can be played in true four track quadraphonic. you just have to know how to build the reproducer. and no not a solid state reproducer. my best system I found was an all wire four track reproducer.
Well subsonic filter.. Do not you dont know how and why it is for? I have no idea abut warped records..😂 Ok here comes the lesson: We can pair tone arm and cartrige that depending on their masses and cartrige canteliver complience. So depending on what cartrige and tonearm you pair you will end up with a combination that will have a specific resonanse freqency.😅 If you choose wrong cartrige for your tone arm then this resonance area will cover the same area as warped issue area.. So first off it is a user error that did not cincidered what cartrige they mount on the specific tone arm.😢 (There is online calculators for us to find optimal combinations of cartriges for our tonearms.) But if we have a optimal combo then that combo will by physics always have a freqency range where it will have self resonance. We need to have speakers that play that low so we can PORDUCE those freqencies and exite the cartrige and tonarm asembly.🎉 Then we get a feadback loop from the speaker to the air to the TT that osilate at that freqency that goes back to the amps spraker and round again.. Known as rumble.. The subsonic filter takes out rumble also that is (should) be lower in freqency than warped records if matched corectly. 🎉 Now here is reason why we have a lot of contreversies.. You need to have a couple of preconditions to get the issues with rumble/subsonic. 1. You need to play loud enugh (in the low freqencies) as it is going trugh air and energy is needed to exite your cartrige and tonearm. 2. It is easier reploduced with a bad combination as explained above that move the resonance freqensy up into the heareble area.😢 3. And you need speakers that are able to play down to that resonance freqency and as seen it is easier that those overlap and can do that if we have a cartrige and tonarm combo that has a higher (faulty) resonance freqency. 4. And to some extent also LPs recordings that has that low freqency that exite the combo. So that is why most dont need that button and many riaa dont need to implement it. And makes hard for a reviwer to test the feature of a rumble/subsonic filter feature.😅🎉❤ (yes it can be done with some effort and care if you know some of the above physics).
Anything making woofers have less excursions is a plus, because it means less distortion. If there are minuses in this case; then you'd you'd have to weigh those in. With all the audio experiments I do, there's one I can't do; go to non-existent stores close by and listen and compare equipment versus other equipment. What would interest me the most would be comparing vintage equipment versus current equipment. Are turntables without spring suspensions really better sounding, because we have more precision & tighter tolerances now? Does that make up for no spring suspension? Would a car built to the highest precise modern tolerances, not need shock absorbers? I remember near 20 years ago, reviewers in high end audio review magazines saying that so much great progress has been made in phono preamps, that ones from even 5 years earlier are becoming obsolete. Is this just dishonest marketing advice to the consumer, or is it true? Should people be getting rid of their 3 and 4 thousand dollar preamps of 35 years ago, and buying made in China 3 and 4 HUNDRED dollar phono amps? I have no idea, as explained above as that would require audition. They say phono cartridges are better now. Are they? Or are they even as good as vintage ones? Should people be looking for a current $1500 moving coil cartridge or should they be looking for vintage NOS or even used MC Cartridges from say the 1990s which were the superstars back then? The ones that The Absolute Sound gave 3 to 4 star ratings to. I have never heard a cartridge as good as the circa 1990 Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso Dti moving coil cartridge, which cost $1200 back then. And except for its high end, it wasn't even considered the very top cartridge of the day. Those honors were supposedly the Spectral MCR, the Audioquest 7000, The Madrigal cartridge, and many Koetsu cartridge lovers, still think that all other cartridges just sound like they're reproducing frequencies, while Koetsu cartridges sound like they're faithfully reproducing the true harmonic overtone structure of real life instruments. Some feel that Koetsu movibg coils qualify as art in sound, while others are just transducers. Once again I wouldn't know. High end shops, the ones that are left, and far away, almost always just have one turntable that is set up, and I can't imagine them removing cartridges and mounting another one while you sit & sip your coffee. Have you out there ever tried this? Figure out how many years back from 2024 is everything in your system as far as date of manufacture? Your turntable, cartridge, preamp, amplifier, speakers; and then divide by 5. You will cone out with the average age of manufacture of every piece of equipment in your system. The best sound of anyone else's system in their home that I've ever heard, we did that with, and figured it out. The average age of the pieces in his system is over 41 years old. There are lots of things that would be interesting to find out; if you could actually audition and compare. Moving coil cartridges are generally way more transient quick than moving magnets. Electrostatic speakers are a lot faster than virtually any cone and dome drivers. If you played a moving magnet cartridge system through electrostatic speakers; would it sound as fast as a moving coil cartridge played through box speakers? The vintage company SAE went on and on in their old magazine ads about the extreme importantance of transient response. That music was mainly transients. Was SAE really great sounding equipment? Some say yes, and some say no; much disagreement on that brand. They even made a moving coil cartridge (which are known for their transient response and transparency) and it was, and is, well received and well thought of. Cassettes are making a comeback. At the local GOODWILL, store their prices have doubled all of a sudden. Would playing a factory prerecorded cassette through electrostatic speakers have the ultra fast transient snap of a moving coil cartridge through box speakers? I bet it would be real close. I have tried playing cassettes through electrostatic headphones. What an unbelievably wonderful combination! Except for dynamics, cassettes can sound amazing. More analog than vinyl if you think about it. I think a cassette played back on a good Tandberg cassette deck (better than Nakamichi), versus played back on your usual cassette deck, would be more difference in sound quality than a good $100 phono cartridge versus a good $500 phono cartridge. The audio world is changing. Vinyl's comeback was the biggest long shot ever. Cassette might be #2. But don't expect it to be as big as vinyl's.
Yes I have thought of writing a book. I do cartoons too, I could make it part text and part cartoons. Also part music/audio trivia; I did some Quiz Challenges for some RUclips and other internet sites. But I think us audiophiles are too small a bunch for it to do anything big. I did a poem for the Audio Shrink channel a few days ago and he commented back that it was the best thing his comment section has ever received in all his time on RUclips. More people should discover his channel. It gets into the psyche behind materialism and what makes us give too much importance to what we seek out and own. Nice that some people appreciate my input. I love to use my creativity. Using it to improve my sound quality is one of my favorite ways to use it. It really keeps me going.
The most famous Audio Cartoon guy of all time is Charles Rodrigues, whose cartoons appeared scattered about in each issue of the late Stereo Review magazine. His book called Total Harmonic Distortion, a compilation of his cartoons is a long out of print collectors item among audiophiles with a sense of humor, and rare; it commands $100 and up in the used book market.
So you are seeking "signal purity" but you enjoy tube distortion. So which one are you trying to get? Purity or distortion? I am not saying their is anything wrong with tube distortion, I think listen to what sounds good to your ears. However, the idea that you are worried about inaudible frequencies but then are okay with introducing distortion in the most audible frequency band is strange. Another issue related to subsonic filters is what those subsonic frequencies are doing to your amplifier. Unless there is a filter on the input, your amp is attempting to reproduce those frequencies. The thing is that the lower the frequency the more power it takes to reproduce, so frequencies that you can't hear and very few speakers can reproduce (mostly only very strong subs) are robbing power from the reproduction of the frequencies you can hear. Finally we have the issue of mastering vinyl. If a vinyl record is cut well there is already a filter that is cutting the frequencies below 20 Hz. The question then becomes "if the vinyl was already mastered that way, why have a subsonic filter?" The answer to that question is for what you mention in this video (warped vinyl) and resonances in the room. If you have wood floors walking around can cause thumps to go through the needle, but also vibrations from the music can cause the turntable to vibrate and that movement of the needle can lead to low frequency noise that isn't actually on the vinyl. In the end, if the subsonic filter is implemented properly it shouldn't harm the sound of your records.
What do we want "purity of signal" @00:30 Or Hear what is is in the recording, suport your humam hearing plus with your own preferences? It is a easy choise and purists are missing out and in my opinion waste time with suboptimal sound quality. It is a false logic that restrict their audio jurney progress and in many cases halt it completly.😢
I'll take 2 😊. I always thought the subsonic filters job was for warped effects on the lows. Clears up the muddy sound? I have an outer weight ring that pretty much locks up the warp and even dished records. Not for all TT but the ring is great for dynamics 😊. Greg
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I just purchased a ZEN 3 and it runs circles around a SCHITT MANI 2 pre. Much higher output than the MANI. MUCH lower hiss. And people do not need to buy the $79 "quiet' power supply. I fell for it and did not notice any reduction in hiss with the stock power supply. I am super happy with my Nagaoki MP110 MM magnetic cart.. Everybody is at the audio altar praising the Ortofon RED or BLUE upgrade stylus. I might buy an Ortofon just to join the crowd and let me ears determine.
Hey Adrian! The MP110 is a good cart. I listened to one recently.
There is no purity in any signal chain. A subsonic filter helps your amp to better control the speakers, not to use it, is a mistake. The bass you hear and feel is 40hz and above, no sub filter touches these.
Clean analog signal path for me please...especially with dragging a diamond rock chip hanging off a magnet, inside of a plastic groove. Great video Rick.
😆 perfect way to describe that!
It's kind of funny saying "this little magic button over here changes something you can't hear'. Sort of hard to prove it's not working exactly as intended. (I do get the ... premise... that it can effect your perception of the sound...but you could say the same about changing the color of your VU meters).
the tube box uses tubes in both gain and cathode
follower/buffer. it uses jfets. in the first or first two 2 gain stages tho.
a few things:
oh man, subsonic filter is a very useful feature. that and mono. man those allow for a far cleaner listening experience. its not inaudible when those woofers are pumpin away!
warp is one thing. rumble filter is much more important, esp with some pf
the poorly made turntables like project debut carbon.
rumble interferes with clarity of signal. subsonic filter removes some.
Subsonic frequencies may not be audible, they might be felt. I am running two 12" RSL woofers and holy cow, my listening chair dances at times.
😂 I can imagine what 2 subs would do to my listening space
Is the Waxwing worth more than double the Zen?I want to get one or the other,thanks.
Hi Dominic. I would recommend either one but for different reasons. If you are looking for a simple phono stage, go with the Zen. If you want more control over the sound and the ability to adjust it or take advantage of some of the bells and whistles it has, the Waxwing is the way to go. They are really targeting slightly different users (who all love vinyl!).
My Zen Air phono's subsonic filter was cut out a lot of bass, so once i tried it i immediately turned that off and never use it again. I realized one important thing, if your record doesn't sound good, double check your tt settings, especially anti-skate. If your VAT is 1.5 for example it doesn't mean that 1.5 anti-skate will be perfect. Absolutely not! You have to set anti-skate with an empty disk, no other way to do this. And thank you as always, Rick!
Thanks Max! I always set anti-skate with the Wallyskater now. The old “set it to the same as the VTF” isn’t accurate. When it is it’s a happy coincidence
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords 100% and the channel balance also isn't perfect unless your anti-skate isn't correct
If it is an active filter, then it will add its character and its distortion to the signal's quality.
If it is a passive filer, then it should not harm the signal's quality. However, any additional circuitry will alter the signal's quality, even if that additional circuitry is set 100% to neutral. So there might be some harm, that none of us can hear. If we cannot hear it, then it is effectively not there (at least on the stereo we are using -- it might be noticeable on a more revealing system).
Audio quality is a set of compromises.
If your amps are relieved of reproducing inaudible low frequencies, and your speakers are not trying to reproduce such difficult frequencies, then the results of that filter should be positive.
It all boils down to how well that filter is designed, and how revealing your system is.
Well said - as always!
Hello, is it possible to input listening sources beside turntables (DAPs, laptops) on this Zen Phono? As my listening room is not dedicated to turntables. Thanks for answering. I'm a beginner in vinyl collecting. Love your channel.
Hi! Glad you're here! For this device - it's only for a turntable. Happy to help you find something that suits you if you want to contact me?
I'm not surprised that the Zen Phono 3 is a good piece of equipment. I have an Ifi Hip dac portable headphone amp that sounds terrific! They seem to make some fine products in the affordable range. Nice music choice as well. I haven't listened to Billy Squire in a while. When I do, I can't help also playing some Pat Benatar and Quarterflash as too.
Hey Neil - now I'm going to humming "Harden my Heart" all day!
What Tube Integraded Amplifier are you using with your new phono stage? Also what is the exact name (or link) to the new phono stage you are using?
The integrated is the Galion TS120. The phono stage is the Super MM from Aric Audio (aricaudio.com/). The phono stage is a mainstay now
Good afternoon Rick ☕️
I’ve used a few IFI products, all have been excellent.
I may add this …just for future purposes..
Take care and enjoy the Sunday.
Cheers my friend! 🍺
Worth an upgrade from the first generation?
I would say so. I never had the first gen but a buddy of mine did
An aside comment: You talked about the desire for purity of sound. I am not against that approach but as you said( my paraphrase) it is an unobtainable target. As you have said, its about the aesthetics of the listening experience. For that reason I have a graphic equalizer in my system. There is one feature that was on 70's and 80s integrated amps I really miss; a loudness button/switch. It was, according to some advertisements removed for the "Purity of sound" On my system( modern amp), to really get good imaging the volume knob has to be turned up to levels that share the music with my neighbors( we are on good terms). When listening to Arkona, Wagner, The Hu, Black sabbath, AC/DC and a few others, I oft think think a loudness button would be much more neighborly.
I remember the loudness buttons! Thanks for bringing back that memory 🍺
Yamaha still has loudness control on some integrated amps. My wife's system has one. Although I don't like the way it works so don't use it.
I enjoyed my ZEN Phono 3 during the times it worked, but unfortunately had to return it because of the defective power button issue. I know some people don't like the styling, but I think it has a very cool '50s vibe to it and makes me think of my dad's 1957 Chrysler New Yorker back in the day. But I'm enjoying my Pro-Ject Phono Box DS3 B phono pre-amp I exchanged it for.
Question: When did you replace the KT-88 tubes with the new Psvane Horizon tubes?
Wow - you’re observant! That’s going to be a subject of a video soon. Want to make sure my impressions are honest and not based on only a few hours. Popped them in earlier this month.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
Great, i'm looking forward to it as I'm considering getting a quad.
@@chrislj2890 Spoiler - you won't be disappointed if you do
Hej Rick
Thanks for another interesting video.
I recall you had a Vincent PHO-701 a while ago.
How does PHO-701 stack up against iFi Zen Phono 3 and Aric Super MM Phono Stage?
I know there is a big difference in price between these units, but anyway...
Hi Staffan!
If I had to rate them it would be:
1. Super MM (by far)
2. PHO-701
3. Zen Phono 3
That was rated based on my listening experience - definitely not by price although it did land that way. There are others I could throw in but that's how I'd rate those 3
I wish you could do a video on what the gain and loading is and does.
I actually had one! Ended up corrupt and lost an entire b-roll recording. I didn’t realize it until I’d shipped it back to iFi. Lesson learned!
I like new and fresh content. Subscribed.
Thank you, Carlos!
Another interesting one Rick, like number 55 from me.
Jim🏴🙂
Thanks Jim!!! 🍺
You cannot hear a 16 Hz big organ pipe but you can certainly feel it in your stomach. 😎
Great point, Marc
Except that the vast majority of speakers can't reproduce those frequencies.
@@dougdavis8986do you still listen to music without sub?
@@MaxKnoxwille the vast majority of subs won't do 16Hz either.
@@dougdavis8986 agree)
I do everything straight from The Wireing supplied. I do not use filters, But I do use true four track. and thsi goes for remastering LP,45, transcription disks 78's... what I have found, is that most systems about 99% today are stereo phonic or mixed stereo and mono.. you do not hear the true mix. Mono should not be heard on both speakers. but one speaker should be empty, unless the seccond channel holds unedited or edited out chatter or etc. that was not omitted during the editing process.
Cd's hold this feature a lot of times! the beatles Lps on cd IE with the beatles(mono) hold what sounds like they are transferred from 78 rpm disks. which may be very possible. but you would not know this, if I did not let you in on this odd detail.
other albums in mono also hold studio chatter and etc. some where a cut is made and a new take is started. or just studio chatter. and other artifacts.
Stereo, unless recorded in true stereophonic - can be played in true four track quadraphonic. you just have to know how to build the reproducer. and no not a solid state reproducer. my best system I found was an all wire four track reproducer.
That’s really wild. I’d love to know more about that
Well subsonic filter..
Do not you dont know how and why it is for?
I have no idea abut warped records..😂
Ok here comes the lesson:
We can pair tone arm and cartrige that depending on their masses and cartrige canteliver complience.
So depending on what cartrige and tonearm you pair you will end up with a combination that will have a specific resonanse freqency.😅
If you choose wrong cartrige for your tone arm then this resonance area will cover the same area as warped issue area..
So first off it is a user error that did not cincidered what cartrige they mount on the specific tone arm.😢
(There is online calculators for us to find optimal combinations of cartriges for our tonearms.)
But if we have a optimal combo then that combo will by physics always have a freqency range where it will have self resonance.
We need to have speakers that play that low so we can PORDUCE those freqencies and exite the cartrige and tonarm asembly.🎉
Then we get a feadback loop from the speaker to the air to the TT that osilate at that freqency that goes back to the amps spraker and round again.. Known as rumble..
The subsonic filter takes out rumble also that is (should) be lower in freqency than warped records if matched corectly. 🎉
Now here is reason why we have a lot of contreversies..
You need to have a couple of preconditions to get the issues with rumble/subsonic.
1. You need to play loud enugh (in the low freqencies) as it is going trugh air and energy is needed to exite your cartrige and tonearm.
2. It is easier reploduced with a bad combination as explained above that move the resonance freqensy up into the heareble area.😢
3. And you need speakers that are able to play down to that resonance freqency and as seen it is easier that those overlap and can do that if we have a cartrige and tonarm combo that has a higher (faulty) resonance freqency.
4. And to some extent also LPs recordings that has that low freqency that exite the combo.
So that is why most dont need that button and many riaa dont need to implement it.
And makes hard for a reviwer to test the feature of a rumble/subsonic filter feature.😅🎉❤ (yes it can be done with some effort and care if you know some of the above physics).
Anything making woofers have less excursions is a plus, because it means less distortion. If there are minuses in this case; then you'd you'd have to weigh those in. With all the audio experiments I do, there's one I can't do; go to non-existent stores close by and listen and compare equipment versus other equipment. What would interest me the most would be comparing vintage equipment versus current equipment. Are turntables without spring suspensions really better sounding, because we have more precision & tighter tolerances now? Does that make up for no spring suspension? Would a car built to the highest precise modern tolerances, not need shock absorbers? I remember near 20 years ago, reviewers in high end audio review magazines saying that so much great progress has been made in phono preamps, that ones from even 5 years earlier are becoming obsolete. Is this just dishonest marketing advice to the consumer, or is it true? Should people be getting rid of their 3 and 4 thousand dollar preamps of 35 years ago, and buying made in China 3 and 4 HUNDRED dollar phono amps? I have no idea, as explained above as that would require audition. They say phono cartridges are better now. Are they? Or are they even as good as vintage ones? Should people be looking for a current $1500 moving coil cartridge or should they be looking for vintage NOS or even used MC Cartridges from say the 1990s which were the superstars back then? The ones that The Absolute Sound gave 3 to 4 star ratings to.
I have never heard a cartridge as good as the circa 1990 Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso Dti moving coil cartridge, which cost $1200 back then. And except for its high end, it wasn't even considered the very top cartridge of the day. Those honors were supposedly the Spectral MCR, the Audioquest 7000, The Madrigal cartridge, and many Koetsu cartridge lovers, still think that all other cartridges just sound like they're reproducing frequencies, while Koetsu cartridges sound like they're faithfully reproducing the true harmonic overtone structure of real life instruments. Some feel that Koetsu movibg coils qualify as art in sound, while others are just transducers. Once again I wouldn't know. High end shops, the ones that are left, and far away, almost always just have one turntable that is set up, and I can't imagine them removing cartridges and mounting another one while you sit & sip your coffee.
Have you out there ever tried this? Figure out how many years back from 2024 is everything in your system as far as date of manufacture? Your turntable, cartridge, preamp, amplifier, speakers; and then divide by 5. You will cone out with the average age of manufacture of every piece of equipment in your system. The best sound of anyone else's system in their home that I've ever heard, we did that with, and figured it out. The average age of the pieces in his system is over 41 years old. There are lots of things that would be interesting to find out; if you could actually audition and compare. Moving coil cartridges are generally way more transient quick than moving magnets. Electrostatic speakers are a lot faster than virtually any cone and dome drivers. If you played a moving magnet cartridge system through electrostatic speakers; would it sound as fast as a moving coil cartridge played through box speakers? The vintage company SAE went on and on in their old magazine ads about the extreme importantance of transient response. That music was mainly transients. Was SAE really great sounding equipment? Some say yes, and some say no; much disagreement on that brand. They even made a moving coil cartridge (which are known for their transient response and transparency) and it was, and is, well received and well thought of.
Cassettes are making a comeback. At the local GOODWILL, store their prices have doubled all of a sudden. Would playing a factory prerecorded cassette through electrostatic speakers have the ultra fast transient snap of a moving coil cartridge through box speakers? I bet it would be real close. I have tried playing cassettes through electrostatic headphones. What an unbelievably wonderful combination! Except for dynamics, cassettes can sound amazing. More analog than vinyl if you think about it. I think a cassette played back on a good Tandberg cassette deck (better than Nakamichi), versus played back on your usual cassette deck, would be more difference in sound quality than a good $100 phono cartridge versus a good $500 phono cartridge. The audio world is changing. Vinyl's comeback was the biggest long shot ever. Cassette might be #2. But don't expect it to be as big as vinyl's.
I love reading your comments. Have you ever thought about writing as book?
Yes I have thought of writing a book. I do cartoons too, I could make it part text and part cartoons. Also part music/audio trivia; I did some Quiz Challenges for some RUclips and other internet sites. But I think us audiophiles are too small a bunch for it to do anything big. I did a poem for the Audio Shrink channel a few days ago and he commented back that it was the best thing his comment section has ever received in all his time on RUclips. More people should discover his channel. It gets into the psyche behind materialism and what makes us give too much importance to what we seek out and own. Nice that some people appreciate my input. I love to use my creativity. Using it to improve my sound quality is one of my favorite ways to use it. It really keeps me going.
@@sidesup8286 I think it would be great to see something incorporating cartoons, knowledge and all
The most famous Audio Cartoon guy of all time is Charles Rodrigues, whose cartoons appeared scattered about in each issue of the late Stereo Review magazine. His book called Total Harmonic Distortion, a compilation of his cartoons is a long out of print collectors item among audiophiles with a sense of humor, and rare; it commands $100 and up in the used book market.
So you are seeking "signal purity" but you enjoy tube distortion. So which one are you trying to get? Purity or distortion? I am not saying their is anything wrong with tube distortion, I think listen to what sounds good to your ears. However, the idea that you are worried about inaudible frequencies but then are okay with introducing distortion in the most audible frequency band is strange.
Another issue related to subsonic filters is what those subsonic frequencies are doing to your amplifier. Unless there is a filter on the input, your amp is attempting to reproduce those frequencies. The thing is that the lower the frequency the more power it takes to reproduce, so frequencies that you can't hear and very few speakers can reproduce (mostly only very strong subs) are robbing power from the reproduction of the frequencies you can hear.
Finally we have the issue of mastering vinyl. If a vinyl record is cut well there is already a filter that is cutting the frequencies below 20 Hz. The question then becomes "if the vinyl was already mastered that way, why have a subsonic filter?" The answer to that question is for what you mention in this video (warped vinyl) and resonances in the room. If you have wood floors walking around can cause thumps to go through the needle, but also vibrations from the music can cause the turntable to vibrate and that movement of the needle can lead to low frequency noise that isn't actually on the vinyl. In the end, if the subsonic filter is implemented properly it shouldn't harm the sound of your records.
What do we want "purity of signal" @00:30
Or
Hear what is is in the recording, suport your humam hearing plus with your own preferences?
It is a easy choise and purists are missing out and in my opinion waste time with suboptimal sound quality.
It is a false logic that restrict their audio jurney progress and in many cases halt it completly.😢
I'll take 2 😊. I always thought the subsonic filters job was for warped effects on the lows. Clears up the muddy sound?
I have an outer weight ring that pretty much locks up the warp and even dished records. Not for all TT but the ring is great for dynamics 😊. Greg
Hey Greg! I’d love one of those outer rings. I don’t think my TT could handle one but maybe someday!