So much water from Iyo when the real issue is that AUTO can't win the Aventurine Boss and all is because AI is stupid with Blast atks and it's visible with the Dice phase the most.
I mean that is literally one of the things he's 100% correct on. Acheron, Aventurine, heck even Robin and Boothill, are very different from their traditional paths.
When Opal comes out I want him to have a fucking sniper rifle, like on some john wick assassin shit, aventurine hinted at the fact that he kills people already so he better be on some contract killer shit
You spent 30 minutes when you could have just said that the hero pool is diversifying enough to where we can have multiple different conceptual teams and that you should pull him if you want to run specific type of teams he works in. And that people are worried too much about how strong a character is alone when they need to worry about how strong they are when put together with others that compliment each other. Which by the way, I totally agree with that opinion.
My bad, I’ll have 5 minute streams next time. 😂 But on a serious note, yes exactly. Im scatterbrained so it’s always easier to condense what I’m explaining after I explain it. I often over explain though because when I simplify it, I get idiotic responses because they don’t understand, but argue with me as if they did.
Also necessary to add that hoyo will reward people with this different archetypes with enemy design. Thank god we’re finally talking about it more seriously. This direction was always inevitable. (Haven’t finished vid incase he also says that. Currently almost halfway through vid).
11:46 'Don't pull on weapon banner' (esp if you're f2p/budget player) advice in Genshin stems from the fact weapon banners in Genshin features *_two_* limited 5-star and guaranteeing the one you want is considerably more expensive /painful than in HSR. For DPS at least, having a BIS 5-star weapon _is_ a noticeable boost in performance.
Yeah and even as f2p in Genshin it's questionable advice. You have to be a lot more restrictive on which banners you do pull on, but when there's two amazing options at once even f2p should consider pulling. Genshin 5* weapons are a lot more universal most of the time which gives them more individual value. But not to get sidetracked, my point is that yes you should definitely pull signature light cones in HSR.
Basically, we’re talking about team synergy. Honkai Impact kinda has this where you would have a team built around an element, the boss’ typing, and the weather system.
@@jim_beam_91 So why use the term Hypercarry? If he means hyperbuffing, why did he say Hypercarry? They mean 2 completely different things, you cannot just say 1 yet mean the other.
I think Acheron brings a new style of hypercarry revolving around debuffs and debuff application the enemy. This fits well with the current situation in Honkai Star Rail, in which: - There are currently more enemies that debuffs their side than those that buffs ours. - Having a damage dealer using debuffers allows the other DPS use their favorite Harmony support. - Most buffing supports AKA most Harmony supports have to spend an action doing no damage to buff. While all debuffers do debuffs and hit enemies at the same time. - The game is encouraging a team in which more characters hit something. Supports and sustains doesn't need to do big damage, but they need to slap on enemies or mechanics-related items to disable such mechanics.
I actually think the hypercarry point is kinda silly ngl. Look, people will claim hypercarry means whatever they want, but I think many people agree the term has come to mean single DPS with buffers OR debuffers. I’ll give an example: Jingliu’s main team has Pela and Bronya in addition to a sustain. That’s a buffer and a debuffer. Yet, you don’t have people claiming that this Jingliu team isn’t a hypercarry team just because Pela is there. Or a “half hyper/half debuff” team. It’s simply a DPS surrounded by amplifiers. In this case, amplifiers would be characters who amplify your dmg, either by buffing your DPS or debuffing your enemies. Anyway, great video all the same. I just thought that point was a bit of a stretch.
100% agree about building proper teams and pulling on the LC banner as a ftp. I started on RM banner with no prior knowledge. Turns out RM is great for DoT team and kafka and BS came shortly after. I let my first 5 star, RM, dictate who i subsequently pulled for. Same reason i pulled for acheron/aventurine. Theres synergy there and it makes sense to pull for both for the 2nd team. Now the next characters i pull for will be huohuo for the dot team, and J****** for acheron later. For LCs prioritize DPS but if theres a good 4 star you need, throw a couple pulls in at least to try and snipe it.
Okay first, if you're tired, you don't need to reply this. If tl;dr just read the third paragraph, or last paragraph. Next, I feel like Iyo hates "hypercarry" term so much he would rather yap and complicate himself just to justify his ego rather than accept the term. I mean, I also hate "Duo DPS" (or to be more exact, "DPS") term in HSR because that would mean, if I'm playing it on 2x speed then my damage would be double as well, but that obviously not the case when the damage is calculated for each turn, or cycle. Yet community don't really mind the term so why I should insist to majority that "Duo DPS" is a wrong term, you get my meaning? Hypercarry is an archetype of team-building that exists in HSR, along with FuA teams, DoT teams, Breaker teams, Duo DPS (yes I hate this term but it is what it is), etc. Just because team A plays differently with team B doesn't mean they are not in the same archetype. For example, in Jingliu's team consist of Bronya, RM, and a sustain, if I swap RM with Pela, the team will play differently, it is true. But it is still the SAME archetype, and that is HYPERCARRY. Saying Jingliu's team as "Jingliu" doesn't really bode me well, because Jingliu's team can have other archetype other than hypercarry, like Duo DPS with Blade. Yes you can play Acheron in "not hypercarry" style, but let's be honest most of her team share similar traits, and that is to enable Acheron to deal highest damage possible EVEN with different "playstyle" as Iyo claimed it (since every character play differently), and what archetype that allow one SINGLE DPS to do as much damage as possible? That's right, HYPERCARRY. And nope, just because SW can deals damage, or BS has high damage as well will change Acheron's team to any other archetype other than Hypercarry, SW damage is no where near enough to be called Duo DPS, and BS's damage without another DoT units is cope (unless you also bring Kafka, in which case, you can argue it's not hypercarry team but instead DoT/Triple/whatever). Lastly, Nihility DOES BUFF Acheron, so any two Nihility + Acheron team is still can be said as Hypercarry thanks to her A4 Major Trace. Two Nihility just by standing there buff Acheron total damage to 160%. Take one Nihility out of her team, and unless your Acheron is E2, your Acheron's damage drops by 39%. So yes Nihility buffs Acheron, checkmate! Let's be honest, just because you don't like "hypercarry" term on Acheron doesn't mean you're the one on the right while community is the wrong, especially community themselves are fine with hypercarry Acheron (even moreso with your own interpretation/comparison). It is not Black and White, many peoples has different perception afterall. Still IMO it is tiring to say Acheron isn't hypercarry when nobody except you deny she is not hypercarry.
You have great takes conceptually, but I think that's the main issue: conceptually. HSR is gacha first and foremost, which makes the reality of the team building, the strategising, the team piloting etc be way different to what would be optimal. Take the Acheron team for example: for the average player, it is Acheron + Pela + Guinaifen(/Silver Wolf), which is hypercarry except with debuffer instead of buffers, because what else are those characters doing there? Damage? Benefiting from Acheron in any way? Certainly not. It becomes something else once you start adding someone like Black Swan to the mix, who was one patch away only - VERY easy for f2p and low spenders to just have lost the 50/50, even if they went for her. Now add Kafka to the mix, or Silver Wolf, for a player who started after 1.2... Who in their right mind would've gone for SW when Ruan Mei was a banner away? If going for Kafka too, that's four banners in a row, and an absolutely insane amount of money or luck needed. Again, that's just an example, but I hope it explains what I'm trying to say. People gravitate towards PPG + DPS because it's the easiest team formation with the least amount of investment, not necessarily because they want to play sub-optimally or don't want to think further. You build each of those characters individually and then just rotate them and boom! You can play!
I think its important to keep in mind MoC is designed in a way to showcase/cause FOMO for the on banner characters. This current cycle was designed so players who missed Acheron will feel they need to pull on JL bc they need a busted dps to clear Adventurine boss's massive healthpool and to have players feel like their current harmony/preservation unit isnt strong enough to stop their team from getting overwhelmed by damage.
Yea more players need to understand this man. The current MOC buff incentivises the use of chars with fast multiple attack actions (aka followup) to stack the buff fast to deal more dmg, and also Acheron (the MOC buff stacks count as debuffs, and you get up to 6 actions worth of debuffs per cycle). This heavily inflates the strengths of the chars that hsr is tryna sell players on the current patch. Anyway a disclaimer just in case: I never said any of the new chars are bad. Just don't expect them to feel as strong as they are rn when all the MOC/PF buffs catered to them goes away.
@@hal0ist Exactly. Like when Ratio dropped and the MoC just threw a bunch of random debuffs on enemies so his follow ups were guaranteed no matter what you brought with him.
From a genshin players perspective all "Hypercarry" really means is that a single character is doing the majority of the teams total damage (usu +70%) regardless how they manage to achieve that, examples would include Eula, Ayaya, Xiao, Wanaderer, Wrio in melt etc. All other teams that feature a more balanced damage profile (due to running multiple sub dps) are simply called regular teams, examples would include Hu Tao, Alhaitham, Itto, Yae Miko etc.
Team synergy that breaks the game has been around since the release of Jingliu because Bronya can abuse her mechanic. This is nothing new. However, as more characters are added, teams can become more complete. The game is not going in a new direction, it has been going in the same direction since the beginning.
Before these two dropped, I could barely scrape by stage 6 of MoC. Without much farming for Acheron relics and zero for Aventurine’s, I’ve managed to 33-34 star both MoC’s. Had to use my undergeared Gepard/Gallagher duo on one side, but we did it. Need Huo to help the one side with Kafka and Swan, and Topaz to build up my FUA team. Thankfully, I don’t need Jingliu anymore, Acheron is my ice-dps.
i was so shocked (and happy) that I got Aventurine in one 10 pull with less than 10 pity and no resources to work with (I'm on 50/50 as well!). and now my level 71 aven with not yet maxed traces is literally allowing my team to not take ANY damage at all!
How are acheron teams not hypercarry? The goal of nihility units/debuffs are all focused on funneling petals toward Acheron ult or opening up more damage that could be done. This is exactly identical to what energy boosting units or buffing/debuffing units do on traditional hypercarry teams. It could be argued that acheron scales more by getting ult "energy" in addition to debuffs and gets a damage bonus multiplier by the existence of nihility teammates, but this exclusive scaling is no different in principle from a standard DPS desiring more ways to increase output. Also debuffs help damage output just as buffs do. Aren't units like pela and silverwolf defense shred used in hypercarry compositions. Other nihility units split their focus with DOT or welt's action delay so they don't classify as well for hypercarry.
Think like this. A normal Hypercarry team funnels all their buffs to a singular individual to do all the damage while occassionally throwing fists themselves. You are very flexible in what you can bring in those teams as you just need to mix and match to get what you want but also the team runs primarily 2 supports 1 dps and 1 sustain Acheron's team already has the restriction of mandating 2 nihility characters to get more damage. you can run a harmony character but that either entails sacrificing your sustain or the second nihility. that's why people went mad on Acheron's E2 and even then, you now need to run 1 nihility character in that team. acheron teams are basically 3 nihility characters and a sustain or 2 nihility characetrs a harmony and a sustain
@@muchluck7981 most nihility characters are supports or designed for DoT. And there's literally no reason to slot Acheron in a DoT team. Acheron by YOUR definition is a hypercarry.
idk it's probably semantics to you but he spent like 5 minutes trying to explain how the end result is the same but the way you get there is what differentiates the two. It's like saying a sustain unit is a buffer because Acheron does more damage when she's not dead.
@@latitude990 Maybe use the term amplifier instead. Debuffers and buffers both increase the damage that you deal to an enemy, either by buffing the dps, or debuffing the enemy. Regardless, neither are dealing your team's damage.
Hypercarry refers to running 2 buffers in this game. Almost entirely because running 2 of the best harmony units would out damage anything else if your main DPS didn't revolve around Debuffs. I think even Kafka did comparable numbers with hypercarry compositions vs her dot compositions until swan dropped but i might be misremembering that. Its semantics. Functionally speaking, any team comp that has 2 or more units actively focused on supporting 1 main unit isn't that different from a hypercarry composition, but we arbitrarily decided at some point that its double harmony. Tho I'd argue that because of how non specific her self buffing is, her team compositions aren't really hypercarry though. Like if a Dot Based sustain unit came out tomorrow, Would you call Kafka/Swan/Acheron + DoT Sustain an acheron hypercarry team or a DoT team that coincidentally is also funneling Acheron ults?
I still don't get the hang-up on the terms. Acheron team=characters that support her ultimate damage by increasing the rate in which she ultimates via debuffing the enemy. Sure it's a different flavor of hypercarry but the basic idea is the same.
bro its crazy how you say Acheron "team" serves a complete purpose while saying hypercarry teams "serves no purpose besides buff the one character". Acheron team is legit a hypercarry team, just played differently from other hypercarries. Other DPS benefit from buffs, while acheron benefit from stacking debuffs. Literally ANY debuffer you put in an "Acheron team" is there to battery your acheron, the same concept on how any buffer you put in a "Hypercarry team" is there to battery your DPS. The only reason you say that any other hypercarry dps can be replaced is because there is no unit that benefits from debuffs like Acheron does YET. So by your definition, if any characters are released that do the same thing , only then can "acheron teams" be classified as hypercarry because she is now swappable? You watched yellovv jingyuan 0 cycle clear right? That's a hypercarry team even if it doesn't use any limited 5 star support. Would you count that as "not legit team building" since its a hypercarry? Buffers exist in a team to give buffs and that's their purpose so why take it away from them? If you tunnel vision on specifically the powerpuff girls, of course its the same team because they're literally the same characters in a team therefore serves the same purpose. This is a legit question btw, I'm not shitting on anyone.
Being a person who does the pass and battle pass, I got Luocha, Lynx (e6) Fu and Adventurine as my sustainers, oh and I built up Gallagher e4. If you're f2p completely, you need 3 or 4 to mix up
@aidanarmaggeddon the mix is the issue, also the way things are going, we are ganna need newer units since the enimies are getting new mechanics. Gotta think future. Example, I lucked out wanting Topaz because I'm wanna make a IPC team, but she's a char alot of people skipped. Having a debuff that makes follow up atks do more dmg is a long term thing. Sustain is no diff.
I would argue Acheron’s team is still ‘baton passing’. No one else on that team’s purpose is to do damage or is really integral. That team doesn’t care about what debuff or dot is being inflicted just that it’s done as frequently as possible so that Acheron can ult. Someone comes along that can inflict weak debuffs more often, then someone will get replaced. A lot hypercarry teams also want their DPS to ult as much as possible, the method of getting the ult up is just different.
"This is quite literally Acheron's team" Iyo states - Meanwhile Dr Ratio in the corner giving this man side eye going, "Man, I'd fucking love to be on that team..."
I'm starting to lose your definition of a hypercarry team. In this vid it sounded like you think a hypercarry team has characters on it just for the strength of their buffs and not for any of the utility in their kit, and the characters don't have any roles. But I don't think that's the case. My first reason, you can call a different of opinion, but I think having different kinds of buffs is enough to be considered it's own role. I look at a dps's kit see what buffs they have, and provide buffers who give what they don't have. Between the members of the PPG you can give each of them a role depending on the mix up of buffs they give. Another way I think they do have roles is utility based, bronya/sparkle are speed manipulators, tingyun gives energy and has some subdps potential especially when paired with other members of the PPG since their buffs tend to be team wide. Again my point as always isn't that some ppg teams arent just "oonga Bunga slap strongest buffers on one team to do big damage" some definitely are. But some PPG teams are direct answers to the questions the DPS asks: Who can offset my dogshit base speed Who can give my more skill points Who can off set my insane energy cost And it just so happens that the PPG are who they are because between them, they have the best answers to those questions
You almost lost me again on that debuffed Vs buffer's take saying that they don't do the same thing, I was about to say mf they increase damage, the avenue by which they do that from doesn't matter But I saw your point after thinking about it for a sec. EVERY SINGLE DEBUFFER IN HSR, is designed to be a sub DPS, with literally 0 exceptions. We just don't build them like that usually. Nihility teams are quite literally 1 to 1 genshin teams, pretty much every character in the team is doing their own damage and they all support each others damage. I think your definition of hypercarry is literally just when either only 1 character is dealing damage, or rather, when only 1 character is doing something that isn't just buffing (e.g. they could be assisting with breaks) but for some reason you don't seem to want to just say that? Also I'll admit there's 1 flaw with the debuffer Vs buffer logic. Some buffers do damage and some do have other specialties. Tingyun, yukong and Ruan mei come to mind for damage, hanya, Ruan mei and asta come to mind for break (if you haven't tried break hanya, consider it lol, she literally spams a 60 break skill for free). So there's an argument that debuffers and buffers are in fact the same but just different avenues from which they do their job
I think what Iyo is getting at is now we are moving from a "president X " type of teams (like in League you have protect the hypercarry Kogmaw or Jinx) (ala buff them and invest into the hypercarry vertically) to a team that fucnctions equally as well if not better coz they are more than the sum of their parts. Sparkle teams are broken coz you add Sparkle. Topaz and FUA teams reach that level not because individually they are as broken as Sparkle, but because together these specific 4-5 units function so well, they buff each other exponentially more than what is seen on paper. Many games have that. Pokemon VGC Incerniroar is broken because of a combination of stuff like intimidate, Fire Dark, Fake out, Lariat etc Pot of Greed is banned by default not because inherently its broken and wins a game in a vacuum. It is an engine that is very efficient in its one job, resource gathering. Lucian Nami in League are broken coz of their specific interactions in the kit that just happen to work together. TLDR HSR is moving away from additive units in terms of power to multiplicative units in specific niches (Sparkle will add sth to every team, but in FUA teams Topaz is just exponentially more beneficial in the long run)
idk where u get the idea that topaz fua team is better than sparkle team but that is simple NOT true. Unironically if u swap topaz with sparkle and put for example dr.ratio on atk boot, the team will clear faster by 1 cycle. Another fact, there are many many 0-cycle showcases for all recent MoC with Sparkle since her release, yet there are basically none with topaz or duo dps team which u ppl here glaze over so much.
@@businessaccount-h6v the same with Tingyun in place of Topaz. Topaz is only as good for Ratio as Tingyun is if you have her E1S1, which is a lot of investment for such a mid character.
My favourite part though is calling Silver/Pela/Guinaifen/Black Swan/Kafka not being "powerpuffgirls" for the Acheron team. Then lets talk about trends. I went from 2-3 cycling MoC acheron side to 0-1 cycling. Its almost like adding another "power puff girl" to enable Acheron power .... Im confused what you're trying to say, legit. The entire acheron team is Acheron + 3 poiwerpuff girls to give her stacks and damage. 100% Def shred on enemies alongside with dmg amp/ all res pen is literally what Powerpuff girls do, but in buffs - Acheron team does it in debuffs. Maybe its going over my head but its literally the same shit in reverse Edit; Just to ilustrate a point, play Sampo and Welt to fullfill the role of Silverwolf and Pela. Your Acheron will be complete and utter garbage. Also, the "best" Acheron team at e2s1 is literally replacing 1 Nihility unit to give her a power puff girl. IDK, I feel like you're so insanely off whatever your argument is that its not even funny
Even more funny then that. The literal strongest team in terms of dmg output in the entire game rn is Acheron, Sparkle, Bronya, SW. This is a team with 2 buffers who can action advance, that he himself called hypercarry team. P.S. Since this game only have TWO action advance buffers and BOTH of them respectfully IN the nuclear Acheron team.
I agree on the point of pulling on the LC banner, since there are A LOT OF crucial lightcones. The biggest outliers are Pearls of Sweat and DDD, which are making a big difference on many teams.
I cleared first half of MoC with Jing Yuan and second half and Ratio hypercarry with second half. Honestly, I just think it comes down to understanding when exactly to use your ults.People haven't had time to understand the mechanics, which is why their struggling. Hypercarry works just fine, you just need a unit that has good single target dmg to burst down Aventurine after the dice games on the second phase.
I’m glad Iyo brought this up because I noticed when fighting aventurine. My Acheron team being Acheron, Pela, welt, Gallagher. If you hostage your ults. It makes it way easier to win the gambles since the game encourages you to do so as you get your ult back anyway.
IPC Emergency helped me beat swarm 5 and i could not be anymore happy. I have yet to tackle gold n gears 5 yet so we’ll see. Aventurine was thr missing link i needed to be able to get through it. Its insane
I understand you’re trying to say theres a difference between debuffers on your team and buffers on your team, but at the end of the day I really feel like you’re just splitting hairs. After all, Acheron is still the primary damage dealer on the vast majority of the teams she likes to be in, and everyone else’s job is to apply debuffs and enable Acheron’s ult, whether they damage the opponent or not.
the argument that acheron is the only one without a traditional buffer to 0 cycle is pretty bad IMO, her entire kit disables the use of those units, that the only reason why she is capable of that. Not saying she isn't strong, she definitely is but trying to make that claim is somewhat disingenuous when she would literally do less dmg if you gave her those supports. Use the right supports for the right carries
TLDR - all debuffers can do more than just debuff, some buffers too! So stop building HP Def debuffers and buffers ya noobs! I endorse this message completely, y'all need to get on the break effect hanya train
I think if we were to determine roles, Acheron would probably be a carry most times. In a team with Pela, Guinaifen and trend MC she would take the role as a hyper carry, because every characters sole purpose is to enhance Acherons capacity, and in a DoT team with Kafka and Black Swan she would probably be a sub dps.
iyo calls it a new direction, most people call it character kit powercreep. Acheron was spoonfed 160% damage for using two Nihility units. It might be a new direction if you willingly decided to use the Nihility units on your own for their own merit, but with the damage bonus incentive you are just pigeonholed into forced diversity. HSR HAD to do 160% damage bonus to tear people away from "hypercarry", like the Nihility debuffers weren't even slouches with their defense down. I assume we can agree that Acheron's stacking ultimate is just leagues better than an energy ultimate. You guys can give MHY their flowers for that, but to me that's just powercreep packaged nicely with the forced diversity. You could have a better case with Aventurine, but most of this video is glazing Acheron. And the Aventurine discussion just boils down to one's perspective on his damage contribution and le stacking mechanics feel good.
I pulled Adventurene. I had Geppy and Luocha. I needed a great Sustain. I probably shouldn’t have pulled but I got him. Won’t need to pull Fu Xuan now. I still want Huohuo for my DOT team. My Acheron team is now Acheron, Adventurene, Pela, and Sparkle.
"Defense scaling vs attack scaling is better, that's why 4k defense is like [lower number] attack" Iyo, that means defense scaling is WORSE than attack, because you need a bigger number for the "same result" I believe what you meant to say is that def% stats and base def are larger, so a lower def scaling on trace talents is equivalent to a higher atk scaling talent. This also doesn't really hold water, but I think that's the idea you're trying to communicate anyways Also, if your definition of hyper excludes any and all teams that include pela, your definition is wrong, full stop. You can try to make these arbitrary definitions, but all you're doing is obscuring yourself and making it harder for others to understand you, because you're using an intentionally esoteric definition.
Dont think I agree with the "direction" change. Imo the game has been just that since 1.0 for relatable accounts. I haven't been able to just slap in whatever to full star MoC for a long stretch of time and did need teams that actually function. Also tried Mei Sparkle Bronya team as a F2P last MoC and I pretty much just die or it's extremely unreliable. If you're going to have some 175 SPD with 5 30cv pieces and/or E1s and/or S1s then yeah, but at that point you can probably do the same thing with anyone again. Don't agree with *needing* sig LCs either, depending on what you mean with need. But even then, the only LC that changes playstyle is Acheron's as far as I remember, due to the extra stack. If you stretch it then maybe Seele's due to not working properly without 1-shotting trash. But she was also fine for a while and if you just get the new character instead, you're off just as good if not better. So far no issues to full star with 0 signature LCs. I did get Acheron's for the newest MoC because the game decided to give it to me at 9 pity, but I also had 3 entire cycles spare for 3 stars, so was anything but needed.
I have some of the power puff girl characters but I hate the hyper carry play, So, I usually have a main dps, a support for them (or the whole team since I love Ruan Mei), a fill-in depending on what I need (but usually a follow-up dmg character), and then healer/shielder. Acheron made me really have to pull out characters like Pela and Ginny and make sure they were built. lol I will add that I rolled for Aventurine mostly because while I have Luocha and Fu Xuan already, I prefer comfort play and Aventurine lets me do that better than Fu Xuan does. I have anxiety when my characters aren't at/near full hp. Its silly but a thing.😅
I think the simplest way to explain why they change the game... is that they released the strongest DPS and the strongest sustainer back to back. Essentially if you just happened to be around to pull both of them... frankly you beat the entire game... and probably won't even take any damage while you're doing so lol Also I disagree with the statement that having Loucha and Bailu would be enough reason not to get him. Bailu is not enough to solo sustain in the current MoC, hell even Loucha is struggling to solo sustain against so much AOE damage, so I desperately needed to replace Bailu with Aventurine to make it work.
there were a lot of times where I wanted to comment about your takes and definitions of certain game mechanics(hypercarry) and how off the mark you are by the general usage of that certain term. but almost always, I just end up reading comments and realizing that its only you that misconstrued that term in the whole of the comment section. makes me think that maybe its just for engagement. 😅😅 Also, thats an unfair comparison. to compare acheron to any other hypercarry. and end up not even agreeing that acheron is a hypercarry because her teammates debuff the enemy instead of buffing her is just insane. like keep in mind that acheron is just a broken character, and that her traces incentivizes her to run debuffers for an added dmg multiplier. that multiplier alone is a harmony character already. 🤣🤣🤣
@Yasper-2TS true i just meant if you removed acheron and slapped ratio into her team it would probably still work since debuffs of all sorts buff ratio.
Just curious, Iyo. Since you keep saying how everyone on an Acheron team has a purpose unlike other "hypercarry" teams... exactly what do you think is the purpose of a harmony character? Nihility characters in Acheron team, their purpose is to debuff the enemy, therefore increasing Acheron's damage and giving her stacks (which is basically energy for her). I'm not wrong here, right? Harmony characters in other teams, their purpose is to buff a character, therefore increasing their damage, or giving extra turns which gives them energy. Right? What exactly is the difference? Why keep downplaying the other teams for no reason? The wind set, the 170+ speed and all those stuff, they're all hefty exaggerations by the community, none of those are needed for a team with harmony characters to function or do the same things as an Acheron team. They are nice things to have sure, but not needed and sometimes even worse. I can make my Sparkle with 178 speed with 205% crit dmg, but she does worse than my normal build with 145 spd, just because of my damage dealer.
@@IyoverseI suspect that many hsr fans don’t play that many turn-based rpgs and if they do it’s probably on lower difficulties. For those that have, enemy design like aventurine’s has been inevitable and predictable. So too has most of what you’ve been saying about team design. Most people here are probably new to the genre. For future reference it might be a good idea to start the video with an example from pokemon or some other rpg (persona is another good pick imo), and then explain how hsr’s game design (and therefore team building) mirrors it. People seem to emotionally attached to their current conceptions abt hsr to view its game state more rationally (saving for chars will do that to you).
I prefer 5 star sustainer, I have but do t use Geppy or Bailu. So I happily pulled Aventurine, I love him. He is doing great so far.😅 So for now, Loucha and Aventurine. I do have have Acheron at E2 with her LC. Also got Aventurine LC and still trying for his E1. Looking to get Topaz on her rerun.
I like the Pokémon baton pass analogy. Most E0 Acheron team are definitely not hyper carry. The only I can think of that is would be a pela silverwolf. But if it’s break effect silverwolf it’s no longer hyper carry. But the E2 teams that use pela as the sole debuffer are pretty much hyper carry. The spikes analogy was also spot on. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a + or -. If the main function of both is to clear the way or enable your dps to do more damage.
I can understand Loucha and other limited 5 star but Bailu and Gepard? Can you give a more detailed explanation as to why possesing Gepard and Bailu means you dont need Aventurine. Great video BTW
honestly, I dont know why you focus on hypercarry vs whatever else you mean. Aventurine boss is not that hard, he is just annoying and requires quite specific units to beat. In general you are constantly on and on about team building and whatnot, but what really matters is not a team in a vacuum, but what each member brings to the table to beat a certain floor/boss. Star rail ain't vacuum, THIS is genshin brain. When you go against aventurine, you first and foremost think about how to counter him with what you have, not "hmm, what team has the best synergy out of all I have". Picking a dps of the right element and buffing him is just the best way to achieve the endgoal the fastest and with least investment. Just like dot teams dominate meme bossfight or those red dinos. You essentially are trying to create a cool tool without thinking of where to use it.
if you got topaz e0s1 and dr ratio/jing yuan then yes, very recommended. especially if u can get e1 aventurine. Especially perfect with ruan mei, almost unending hard hitiing passive follow up attck. You can try the team comp in the last stage of tides of war event, it slaps
Yea lol I was gonna comment this the tides of war trial characters team was dope! Unending follow ups! Topaz Dr. Ratio Aventurine and I threw in sparkle for skill points n action advance it was crazy. I got SS on that stage it was a blast!
The game is giving more focus to teams and that's something I enjoy. What I call a team is 4 players together, not 1 player and 3 cheerleaders like it happens often with hypercarry. Any other kind of composition is way more interesting to play, be it two duos, or duo dps, multi-dps like in Pure Fiction or subdps supports and so on.
30:30 Aventurine hitting 100k ults unbuffed? That's not something I've seen. Tho he does make great use out of "leftover buffs" that affect the whole team, Ruan Mei and Topaz mainly. On his best team (FuA DPS, Topaz, Ruan Mei) he can hit those 100k ults and 50k follow ups (given S1) which is when he really shines. I do think he has good potenmtial to grow into more teams as new FuA DPS and teamwide buffers are released as well. The fundamental value calculation still stands though, if you are pulling him for his damage, is it worth the two full pity's to get him E0S1 or are you better off spreading those pulls to vertical investment in your DPS or Ruan Mei for example. Most of the time the answer is likely the latter.
"For some reason 'you guys' only hear hypercarry you don't hear anything else I dunnno why you all do that?" - because we got Ruan Mei and Sparkle right after the other - seems pretty hyper carry-oriented to me since we can now build two teams for hyper with Bronya/Ting/Ruan/Sparkle. I don't see a problem with the majority of the player base having fun with it. It eliminates having to have dual DPS when Harmony/Abundance/Preservation don't even need 4pc set bonuses - they are more flexible than DPS to that end and easier to slot in. Maybe that's just me and I doubt the game is ever going to force anyone into a different direction. If that's how players like to play - they will keep playing in that manner. The only thing that will guide players to engage differently is MoC for right now depending on enemy line-up and even then it's not hard to brute force from a hypercarry standpoint.
the fact that Gepards shield is tied only to his ult makes him really restricted/weaker sustain. vs Aventurine who is tied to his skill and can stack it. also its duration and hp is refreshed by his FUA. easier to maintain. works with faster characters who get alot of turns, where Gepard would fall short unfortunately. if Gepard had some other way to refresh his shield other then fully recharging his ult it would be a dif story.
Gepard's shield is a bit restrictive with teammates, since its a bit risky with really fast teammates. But aside from that, it works fine for the purpose of MOC. That pretty much only excludes him from jingliu, bronya+sparkle teams (if you only have 1 gepard fine), and sushang but no one runs sushang. And if you get really unlucky or screw up your ult timings you might have issues with seele, but she should have the shield at least a majority of the time.
It's also much nicer to pull on the HSR weapon banner (vs Genshin). I have yet to loose my 75/25 and I have 7 limited cones at this point. In Genshin, I went almost 2 years before I lucked into a 5 star weapon and it was from the standard banner. Even now, I only have 3 limited 5 star weapons and almost never risk the weapon banner
I wasn’t able to beat Gold and Gears stage 5 until today. I used Ratio, Topaz, Aventurine, Himiko in Elation path. Aventurine is why I was able to beat it.
Baton Pass is a horrible example. Shin Megami’s Tensei’s press turn system is much closer to how action forward works. Its not a Baton Pass either way because sometimes you cant bring them forward enough to take turn if you’re not using Bronya.
Are you saying e0 aventurine is hitting 100k per ult with just the ruan mei buff? I need to see that video. I like aventurine, but that sounds like a bunch of hooey lol
Problem with that its RNG. I got shit luck, I lost 9 50/50 and won 4 (day 1 player) so even if I want to build lets say FUA Im fucked because I just burned 150+ pulls JUST for Aventurine, so Im pretty sure Im not getting Topaz next patch. That mean that I have to wait another 6 months for her 2nd rerun. Next patch MOC has 1millon hp Gepard BTW. The monster power creep its getting stupid.
Acherons "main" team is literally hyper carry... the sole purpose of the team is to get ONLY her ultimate as soon as possible and buff the damage output. Its literally the same concept of the power puff girls without using those characters.
This is the furthest thing from the truth because if that were the case, all of the teams would play the exact same, when in actuality they don't. Acheron also doesn't have a "main team" because, again, each of them play differently. Are we talking about DMG performance/cycle clears? Because then Acheron + DoT jump up and that's no way in hell a Hyper carry comp. Is it the Pela + Swan? or Pela + Silver? Each of those limited 5stars being characters that the community vastly stood against pulling for during their initial banners (& rerun for Kafka). So by default it can't be a main team because most players don't have them. We're definitely not talking about a Pela + Sampo or Guin on an Acheron team as the main one either because neither of those units are hyper-anything. I swear it's like you guys cannot NOT call everything Hypercarry just because you see a Main DPS on the team being highlighted. No Acheron team is funneling DMG to SOLELY Acheron, in order to hyper carry her. Acheron is simply benefiting from these characters participating on the team to do their own DMG/debuffs/CC control, and then converting that into destructive DMG for HERSELF. It's not the same concept as the PPG at all, though I can see what you're trying to relate it to. I just don't believe it's true.
@@Iyoverse Just because a character is a debuffer doesnt mean they arent part of a hypercarry team. Take Pela in Jingliu hypercarry. Classic support. Works the same with Acheron. DoTcheron isn't hypercarry, but every other Acheron team pretty much is. Edit: I just thought about this, but i dont see why a unit placing Sticky Web for your Megazard X isnt hypercarry.
@@Iyoverse the reason I used "main" and not "meta" is because most people wont have the acheron, kafka, black swan, ruan mei team since it is unrelatable to have 5 premium limited units with no sustain. And Acherons own traces basically disincentives anyone building her without using 2 nihility characters unless you pull for her eidolons which is insane to me. To me a main team consists of Acheron+ Pela and/or SW, Guin, BW + any sustain. The reason why I think she is a hyper carry character is that within this "main" team who are these debuffers benefitting that isn't Acheron? Acherons damage is so insane that it invalidates any other team members damage contribution because she does like 90 percent of the total damage in every team comp that isnt the "meta" team.
I will always disagree on pulling on the LC. its an absolute trap and so are eidolons. Characters should always be prioritized no matter what, and since you won't always win a 50/50 having a reserve of rolls is better than better numbers. Imagine losing 50/50 in a row and don't have the reserve rolls tp get the character you really want? Shit fucking sucks, lost acheron because i lost 2 50/50 in a row. I'll even consider it like cheating, end game content can be completed without it, so if you pay/roll for it, is essentially making the game easier for you. Can it be more fun? Yeah sure, but that's a decision ourselves should be making, it should NEVER be recommended to others because imo, the value is NEVER worth it.
Prepared player here! Been farming for Aventurine for 5 weeks. Over 4000 DEF with two piece grand-duke two piece wastelander, inert salsotto, imaginary orb, cit damage body. He can solo swarm 5 😎🛡️🎲
I love that we are leaning into team building - this is what makes games like this fun - if you could beat all content with the same three supports and your flavor of the day dps -it would be hella boring
You got me back into the game, I quit because all the characters I pulled I didn't enjoy (Seele, JY, and Blade). But after watching your videos and hearing you say that people should be teams and now just single characters it made me look at teams more. In HSR I hate hyper carry teams, but I love follow-up teams and DoT teams. I'm back in the game and trying to build up this teams now!
19:20 but they kind of are. You use 2 Nihility to buff Acheron’s ult, use Pela+Penacony to buff Acheron’s ult, and use debuffs to get Acheron’s ult more often. The entire team is purpose built to have Acheron do more damage, so it kinda is a Hyper carry team because all your damage comes from one source and everything else only exists to buff that one source. The team I would consider not hyper carry is Swan+Kafka+Acheron because Swan and Kafka aren’t built to give Acheron more damage they are built to do their own damage and just happen to incidentally give Acheron a boost.
So i lost my 50/50! I was pumped for Aventurine even tho i skipped Topaz for Ruan Mei. I really wanted a second OP sustain all i have is fu xuan and 4 star sustains. Guess who i lost 50/50 to? FRIGGIN Gepard! I wasn't even thinking of him yo! Now.. ive been looking up year old videos of him and now im probably gonna build him.. aventurine n gepard both do shields.. just in different ways.. Idk.. i need a cosigner, should i stick with gepard or try n go "all in" for Aventurine n pull some more even tho i wont reach pity?
For those who doesn't understand why lyo thinks that Acheron's team is not hypercarry, here is my theory: Imagine there exists a character that has the kit similar to the currently MOC debuff turbulence, i.e. if the current enemy is hit x times, then this character will do a follow-up attack, and the counter is shown as a debuff. In addition this character can also apply some def shredding debuff. You put this characters x 2 into your team. They stack Acheron's ult, and Acheron stacks their fua as well. See how this works? Current Acheron's meta team makes it look like she can only be the sole damage dealer (Acheron's damage being 80~90%, hence the Acheron hypercarry). But if there exists other strong damage dealers, maybe we can swap them in. ofc you can argue Acheron's contribution is minimal or every character can do that, or Archeron hypercarry is the headless best team. However, it's a kind of a gameplan mindset that makes everyone synergizes with each other in the team, and make the best damage out of it, instead of specifically used characters/weapons tailored to boost somebody's damage. If we look at some traditional hypercarry team, we can see that the main DPS sometimes does more harm than good except for damage, e.g. Jingliu takes away everyone's hp, and DHIL takes away skill points that originally could be used on other teammates, so they usually are not the best "team players".
I just want Aventurine cause he’ll complete my follow up attack team. Got Topaz, Ratio, and Clara, just hope I can get enough jades to pull him before his banner is over.
I kinda feel like we need to establish a different category of sustains. Like Healing Sustains and Hard Sustains. I feel like both bring different values for sustaining a party. Just my thoughts on it.
I would say he's a very strong pull if you don't have 2x of the big 3. Gepard, lynx, bailu, and gallagher are not included in that. I got him after gepard lynx sustaining through MOC 12 for many patches and it is night and day. He protects the team easily while doing damage for free meanwhile running Lynx they just die. And my Aventurine has sus relics, no sig, and meh traces compared to a built up Lynx
Can a team with E0Ratio Herta shop LC, E0S1RM, E0Aventurine trends S3 and E0S0 Topaz with Sleep like the dead apply enough de buffs for Ratio? I'm trying to decide between E1 or S1 Topaz and maybe Aventurine LC. Consider that Aventurine will also be used in a E0S1Acheron, E0Kafka fermata, E1S1BS. Aventurine having trends would still provide me with some, a bit more inconsistent debuffs in both teams, even better with his LC, and either S1 or E1 Topaz would be probably better for the ratio team. So, between this (E1 topaz, S1 topaz, Aventurine LC) which one would have rhe most value in total?
On the topic of the aventurine crit damage vs def body argument. The take that you brought up, that past 4k damage you gain very little in the way of sustaining so you might as well get damage cuz he can do damage, smacks take is the exact same: He doesn't gain that much extra damage so you might as well run def cuz he can get more shields. There's just one problem i have with BOTH your arguments. In your case it's how much more damage will he get? (Smacks vid did answer this and from what we saw there it ain't a lot). And in smacks case it's how much more shields do we get? (No one has answered this)
Me obsessed with getting Sustains since the beginning... And no I do not have Huo or Luocha 🤣🤣🤣 I wished I pulled for him but I DO NOT REGRET AIMING FOR GALLY!!!!!!!
Take a shot for me every time Iyuu has said "The game is moving into a new direction" and I'll pay you for the damages that happen next
You just need to open your ears, Serios! All of you! LOL
Add another drink every time he says "Acheron", "not", and "Hypercarry" in some combination in a sentence.
So much water from Iyo when the real issue is that AUTO can't win the Aventurine Boss and all is because AI is stupid with Blast atks and it's visible with the Dice phase the most.
I mean that is literally one of the things he's 100% correct on. Acheron, Aventurine, heck even Robin and Boothill, are very different from their traditional paths.
@@GreenBro11 NOT only is ACHERON the best, sexiest, mommiest and busted HYPERCARRY in the history of Honkai Star Rail
At first I read the title as "This changes everything!"
I thought about it too, but decided to change it. LOL
This comment is how I found out that's not what it says. I literally went back to check. The human brain is quite the funny thing 😅
mtashed moment
When Opal comes out I want him to have a fucking sniper rifle, like on some john wick assassin shit, aventurine hinted at the fact that he kills people already so he better be on some contract killer shit
I’m super excited for Opal and upcoming IPC characters. Topaz, Aven, and Jade are hot. So they will pop off for Opal and Diamond.
I need one of them to be a buffer for God sake.
Diamond will prob be cracked considering he is an emanator
Forget about Opel I want Diamond.
Daft Punk lookin ass gigachad.
0:18 Iyo finally admits, Aventurine top tier DPS!
Tho seriously I love this man
Don't tell Buzzfeed; you'll make Luocha sad.
Opened the video saying you only need 2 outta the 5 Sustains, but my ass sitting here with all of them and 0 DPS
Adventurine DPS will save me trust
He not going to adventure, he is stone
🤣🤣
It's like bringing all paramedic to the front line meanwhile all the soldiers are just chilling in their house and playing Ps5
Same I have all of them except Fu Xuan
omg same, i have and build all sustain characters but my limited dps just jingyuan and danheng IL (+ ratio but hes free) lol
You spent 30 minutes when you could have just said that the hero pool is diversifying enough to where we can have multiple different conceptual teams and that you should pull him if you want to run specific type of teams he works in. And that people are worried too much about how strong a character is alone when they need to worry about how strong they are when put together with others that compliment each other. Which by the way, I totally agree with that opinion.
I didn't notice that this video is 30+ mins long until you mention it. Bro is living in yap city 😂
My bad, I’ll have 5 minute streams next time. 😂
But on a serious note, yes exactly. Im scatterbrained so it’s always easier to condense what I’m explaining after I explain it. I often over explain though because when I simplify it, I get idiotic responses because they don’t understand, but argue with me as if they did.
Also necessary to add that hoyo will reward people with this different archetypes with enemy design. Thank god we’re finally talking about it more seriously. This direction was always inevitable. (Haven’t finished vid incase he also says that. Currently almost halfway through vid).
He is a Yapper~ let Him Rap his Yapping Braaaaa for 30min Straight😂
11:46 'Don't pull on weapon banner' (esp if you're f2p/budget player) advice in Genshin stems from the fact weapon banners in Genshin features *_two_* limited 5-star and guaranteeing the one you want is considerably more expensive /painful than in HSR. For DPS at least, having a BIS 5-star weapon _is_ a noticeable boost in performance.
Yeah and even as f2p in Genshin it's questionable advice. You have to be a lot more restrictive on which banners you do pull on, but when there's two amazing options at once even f2p should consider pulling. Genshin 5* weapons are a lot more universal most of the time which gives them more individual value. But not to get sidetracked, my point is that yes you should definitely pull signature light cones in HSR.
Basically, we’re talking about team synergy. Honkai Impact kinda has this where you would have a team built around an element, the boss’ typing, and the weather system.
This
I like aventurine he took me from getting dominated by kafka to 3 staring moc 11 first try my acc is 2.5 months old
Acheron team is hyper-carry with nihility instead of harmony. They are all there to help Acheron get her ult and one-shot enemy.
15:43
He's not taking the word hypercarry straight out of the dictionary. Come on you guys know what he's talking about.
@@jim_beam_91
So why use the term Hypercarry?
If he means hyperbuffing, why did he say Hypercarry?
They mean 2 completely different things, you cannot just say 1 yet mean the other.
@@Argenta_Rosa hypercarry teams according to the majority of HSR players means using 2 or more harmony units buffing a single DPS.
@@jim_beam_91
Yet if you look in the comments, so many people disagree with that assessment.
You literally pulled your definition out of nowhere.
I love the IPC emergency team so much. Now I just need to finish my topaz and wait for Jade and Robin
I think Acheron brings a new style of hypercarry revolving around debuffs and debuff application the enemy.
This fits well with the current situation in Honkai Star Rail, in which:
- There are currently more enemies that debuffs their side than those that buffs ours.
- Having a damage dealer using debuffers allows the other DPS use their favorite Harmony support.
- Most buffing supports AKA most Harmony supports have to spend an action doing no damage to buff. While all debuffers do debuffs and hit enemies at the same time.
- The game is encouraging a team in which more characters hit something. Supports and sustains doesn't need to do big damage, but they need to slap on enemies or mechanics-related items to disable such mechanics.
I actually think the hypercarry point is kinda silly ngl. Look, people will claim hypercarry means whatever they want, but I think many people agree the term has come to mean single DPS with buffers OR debuffers. I’ll give an example:
Jingliu’s main team has Pela and Bronya in addition to a sustain. That’s a buffer and a debuffer. Yet, you don’t have people claiming that this Jingliu team isn’t a hypercarry team just because Pela is there. Or a “half hyper/half debuff” team.
It’s simply a DPS surrounded by amplifiers. In this case, amplifiers would be characters who amplify your dmg, either by buffing your DPS or debuffing your enemies.
Anyway, great video all the same. I just thought that point was a bit of a stretch.
SW and Pela are commonplace in Hypercarry teams. Acheron's is a Hypercarry team using different characters.
100% agree about building proper teams and pulling on the LC banner as a ftp. I started on RM banner with no prior knowledge. Turns out RM is great for DoT team and kafka and BS came shortly after. I let my first 5 star, RM, dictate who i subsequently pulled for. Same reason i pulled for acheron/aventurine. Theres synergy there and it makes sense to pull for both for the 2nd team. Now the next characters i pull for will be huohuo for the dot team, and J****** for acheron later.
For LCs prioritize DPS but if theres a good 4 star you need, throw a couple pulls in at least to try and snipe it.
Okay first, if you're tired, you don't need to reply this. If tl;dr just read the third paragraph, or last paragraph.
Next, I feel like Iyo hates "hypercarry" term so much he would rather yap and complicate himself just to justify his ego rather than accept the term. I mean, I also hate "Duo DPS" (or to be more exact, "DPS") term in HSR because that would mean, if I'm playing it on 2x speed then my damage would be double as well, but that obviously not the case when the damage is calculated for each turn, or cycle. Yet community don't really mind the term so why I should insist to majority that "Duo DPS" is a wrong term, you get my meaning?
Hypercarry is an archetype of team-building that exists in HSR, along with FuA teams, DoT teams, Breaker teams, Duo DPS (yes I hate this term but it is what it is), etc. Just because team A plays differently with team B doesn't mean they are not in the same archetype. For example, in Jingliu's team consist of Bronya, RM, and a sustain, if I swap RM with Pela, the team will play differently, it is true. But it is still the SAME archetype, and that is HYPERCARRY. Saying Jingliu's team as "Jingliu" doesn't really bode me well, because Jingliu's team can have other archetype other than hypercarry, like Duo DPS with Blade. Yes you can play Acheron in "not hypercarry" style, but let's be honest most of her team share similar traits, and that is to enable Acheron to deal highest damage possible EVEN with different "playstyle" as Iyo claimed it (since every character play differently), and what archetype that allow one SINGLE DPS to do as much damage as possible? That's right, HYPERCARRY. And nope, just because SW can deals damage, or BS has high damage as well will change Acheron's team to any other archetype other than Hypercarry, SW damage is no where near enough to be called Duo DPS, and BS's damage without another DoT units is cope (unless you also bring Kafka, in which case, you can argue it's not hypercarry team but instead DoT/Triple/whatever).
Lastly, Nihility DOES BUFF Acheron, so any two Nihility + Acheron team is still can be said as Hypercarry thanks to her A4 Major Trace. Two Nihility just by standing there buff Acheron total damage to 160%. Take one Nihility out of her team, and unless your Acheron is E2, your Acheron's damage drops by 39%. So yes Nihility buffs Acheron, checkmate!
Let's be honest, just because you don't like "hypercarry" term on Acheron doesn't mean you're the one on the right while community is the wrong, especially community themselves are fine with hypercarry Acheron (even moreso with your own interpretation/comparison). It is not Black and White, many peoples has different perception afterall. Still IMO it is tiring to say Acheron isn't hypercarry when nobody except you deny she is not hypercarry.
You have great takes conceptually, but I think that's the main issue: conceptually. HSR is gacha first and foremost, which makes the reality of the team building, the strategising, the team piloting etc be way different to what would be optimal.
Take the Acheron team for example: for the average player, it is Acheron + Pela + Guinaifen(/Silver Wolf), which is hypercarry except with debuffer instead of buffers, because what else are those characters doing there? Damage? Benefiting from Acheron in any way? Certainly not. It becomes something else once you start adding someone like Black Swan to the mix, who was one patch away only - VERY easy for f2p and low spenders to just have lost the 50/50, even if they went for her. Now add Kafka to the mix, or Silver Wolf, for a player who started after 1.2... Who in their right mind would've gone for SW when Ruan Mei was a banner away? If going for Kafka too, that's four banners in a row, and an absolutely insane amount of money or luck needed.
Again, that's just an example, but I hope it explains what I'm trying to say. People gravitate towards PPG + DPS because it's the easiest team formation with the least amount of investment, not necessarily because they want to play sub-optimally or don't want to think further. You build each of those characters individually and then just rotate them and boom! You can play!
I think its important to keep in mind MoC is designed in a way to showcase/cause FOMO for the on banner characters. This current cycle was designed so players who missed Acheron will feel they need to pull on JL bc they need a busted dps to clear Adventurine boss's massive healthpool and to have players feel like their current harmony/preservation unit isnt strong enough to stop their team from getting overwhelmed by damage.
Yea more players need to understand this man.
The current MOC buff incentivises the use of chars with fast multiple attack actions (aka followup) to stack the buff fast to deal more dmg, and also Acheron (the MOC buff stacks count as debuffs, and you get up to 6 actions worth of debuffs per cycle).
This heavily inflates the strengths of the chars that hsr is tryna sell players on the current patch.
Anyway a disclaimer just in case: I never said any of the new chars are bad. Just don't expect them to feel as strong as they are rn when all the MOC/PF buffs catered to them goes away.
@@hal0ist Exactly. Like when Ratio dropped and the MoC just threw a bunch of random debuffs on enemies so his follow ups were guaranteed no matter what you brought with him.
From a genshin players perspective all "Hypercarry" really means is that a single character is doing the majority of the teams total damage (usu +70%) regardless how they manage to achieve that, examples would include Eula, Ayaya, Xiao, Wanaderer, Wrio in melt etc. All other teams that feature a more balanced damage profile (due to running multiple sub dps) are simply called regular teams, examples would include Hu Tao, Alhaitham, Itto, Yae Miko etc.
Team synergy that breaks the game has been around since the release of Jingliu because Bronya can abuse her mechanic. This is nothing new. However, as more characters are added, teams can become more complete.
The game is not going in a new direction, it has been going in the same direction since the beginning.
Before these two dropped, I could barely scrape by stage 6 of MoC. Without much farming for Acheron relics and zero for Aventurine’s, I’ve managed to 33-34 star both MoC’s. Had to use my undergeared Gepard/Gallagher duo on one side, but we did it. Need Huo to help the one side with Kafka and Swan, and Topaz to build up my FUA team.
Thankfully, I don’t need Jingliu anymore, Acheron is my ice-dps.
Same her i also struggel at MoC, but now with Acheron, Black Swan, Sparkle, Aventurine, and Fu Xuan it much easier
i was so shocked (and happy) that I got Aventurine in one 10 pull with less than 10 pity and no resources to work with (I'm on 50/50 as well!). and now my level 71 aven with not yet maxed traces is literally allowing my team to not take ANY damage at all!
Aventurine hits 100k ult unbuffed? Imma need you to drop a showcase big dawg
I'll test it in game with someone else's aventurine in the mean time
How are acheron teams not hypercarry?
The goal of nihility units/debuffs are all focused on funneling petals toward Acheron ult or opening up more damage that could be done. This is exactly identical to what energy boosting units or buffing/debuffing units do on traditional hypercarry teams. It could be argued that acheron scales more by getting ult "energy" in addition to debuffs and gets a damage bonus multiplier by the existence of nihility teammates, but this exclusive scaling is no different in principle from a standard DPS desiring more ways to increase output.
Also debuffs help damage output just as buffs do. Aren't units like pela and silverwolf defense shred used in hypercarry compositions. Other nihility units split their focus with DOT or welt's action delay so they don't classify as well for hypercarry.
Think like this. A normal Hypercarry team funnels all their buffs to a singular individual to do all the damage while occassionally throwing fists themselves. You are very flexible in what you can bring in those teams as you just need to mix and match to get what you want but also the team runs primarily 2 supports 1 dps and 1 sustain
Acheron's team already has the restriction of mandating 2 nihility characters to get more damage. you can run a harmony character but that either entails sacrificing your sustain or the second nihility. that's why people went mad on Acheron's E2 and even then, you now need to run 1 nihility character in that team. acheron teams are basically 3 nihility characters and a sustain or 2 nihility characetrs a harmony and a sustain
@@muchluck7981 most nihility characters are supports or designed for DoT. And there's literally no reason to slot Acheron in a DoT team.
Acheron by YOUR definition is a hypercarry.
idk it's probably semantics to you but he spent like 5 minutes trying to explain how the end result is the same but the way you get there is what differentiates the two. It's like saying a sustain unit is a buffer because Acheron does more damage when she's not dead.
@@latitude990
Maybe use the term amplifier instead.
Debuffers and buffers both increase the damage that you deal to an enemy, either by buffing the dps, or debuffing the enemy.
Regardless, neither are dealing your team's damage.
Hypercarry refers to running 2 buffers in this game. Almost entirely because running 2 of the best harmony units would out damage anything else if your main DPS didn't revolve around Debuffs. I think even Kafka did comparable numbers with hypercarry compositions vs her dot compositions until swan dropped but i might be misremembering that.
Its semantics. Functionally speaking, any team comp that has 2 or more units actively focused on supporting 1 main unit isn't that different from a hypercarry composition, but we arbitrarily decided at some point that its double harmony.
Tho I'd argue that because of how non specific her self buffing is, her team compositions aren't really hypercarry though. Like if a Dot Based sustain unit came out tomorrow, Would you call Kafka/Swan/Acheron + DoT Sustain an acheron hypercarry team or a DoT team that coincidentally is also funneling Acheron ults?
I pulled for him and the lightcone. Just need the topaz rerun and I'll have everything I want.
I still don't get the hang-up on the terms. Acheron team=characters that support her ultimate damage by increasing the rate in which she ultimates via debuffing the enemy. Sure it's a different flavor of hypercarry but the basic idea is the same.
bro its crazy how you say Acheron "team" serves a complete purpose while saying hypercarry teams "serves no purpose besides buff the one character". Acheron team is legit a hypercarry team, just played differently from other hypercarries. Other DPS benefit from buffs, while acheron benefit from stacking debuffs. Literally ANY debuffer you put in an "Acheron team" is there to battery your acheron, the same concept on how any buffer you put in a "Hypercarry team" is there to battery your DPS. The only reason you say that any other hypercarry dps can be replaced is because there is no unit that benefits from debuffs like Acheron does YET. So by your definition, if any characters are released that do the same thing , only then can "acheron teams" be classified as hypercarry because she is now swappable? You watched yellovv jingyuan 0 cycle clear right? That's a hypercarry team even if it doesn't use any limited 5 star support. Would you count that as "not legit team building" since its a hypercarry? Buffers exist in a team to give buffs and that's their purpose so why take it away from them? If you tunnel vision on specifically the powerpuff girls, of course its the same team because they're literally the same characters in a team therefore serves the same purpose. This is a legit question btw, I'm not shitting on anyone.
Being a person who does the pass and battle pass, I got Luocha, Lynx (e6) Fu and Adventurine as my sustainers, oh and I built up Gallagher e4. If you're f2p completely, you need 3 or 4 to mix up
You don't need 3 or 4. It's nice but not necessary at all.
@aidanarmaggeddon the mix is the issue, also the way things are going, we are ganna need newer units since the enimies are getting new mechanics. Gotta think future. Example, I lucked out wanting Topaz because I'm wanna make a IPC team, but she's a char alot of people skipped. Having a debuff that makes follow up atks do more dmg is a long term thing. Sustain is no diff.
I would argue Acheron’s team is still ‘baton passing’. No one else on that team’s purpose is to do damage or is really integral. That team doesn’t care about what debuff or dot is being inflicted just that it’s done as frequently as possible so that Acheron can ult. Someone comes along that can inflict weak debuffs more often, then someone will get replaced. A lot hypercarry teams also want their DPS to ult as much as possible, the method of getting the ult up is just different.
"This is quite literally Acheron's team" Iyo states - Meanwhile Dr Ratio in the corner giving this man side eye going, "Man, I'd fucking love to be on that team..."
I'm starting to lose your definition of a hypercarry team. In this vid it sounded like you think a hypercarry team has characters on it just for the strength of their buffs and not for any of the utility in their kit, and the characters don't have any roles.
But I don't think that's the case. My first reason, you can call a different of opinion, but I think having different kinds of buffs is enough to be considered it's own role. I look at a dps's kit see what buffs they have, and provide buffers who give what they don't have. Between the members of the PPG you can give each of them a role depending on the mix up of buffs they give.
Another way I think they do have roles is utility based, bronya/sparkle are speed manipulators, tingyun gives energy and has some subdps potential especially when paired with other members of the PPG since their buffs tend to be team wide.
Again my point as always isn't that some ppg teams arent just "oonga Bunga slap strongest buffers on one team to do big damage" some definitely are. But some PPG teams are direct answers to the questions the DPS asks:
Who can offset my dogshit base speed
Who can give my more skill points
Who can off set my insane energy cost
And it just so happens that the PPG are who they are because between them, they have the best answers to those questions
You almost lost me again on that debuffed Vs buffer's take saying that they don't do the same thing, I was about to say mf they increase damage, the avenue by which they do that from doesn't matter
But I saw your point after thinking about it for a sec. EVERY SINGLE DEBUFFER IN HSR, is designed to be a sub DPS, with literally 0 exceptions. We just don't build them like that usually. Nihility teams are quite literally 1 to 1 genshin teams, pretty much every character in the team is doing their own damage and they all support each others damage.
I think your definition of hypercarry is literally just when either only 1 character is dealing damage, or rather, when only 1 character is doing something that isn't just buffing (e.g. they could be assisting with breaks) but for some reason you don't seem to want to just say that?
Also I'll admit there's 1 flaw with the debuffer Vs buffer logic. Some buffers do damage and some do have other specialties. Tingyun, yukong and Ruan mei come to mind for damage, hanya, Ruan mei and asta come to mind for break (if you haven't tried break hanya, consider it lol, she literally spams a 60 break skill for free).
So there's an argument that debuffers and buffers are in fact the same but just different avenues from which they do their job
I think what Iyo is getting at is now we are moving from a "president X " type of teams (like in League you have protect the hypercarry Kogmaw or Jinx) (ala buff them and invest into the hypercarry vertically) to a team that fucnctions equally as well if not better coz they are more than the sum of their parts.
Sparkle teams are broken coz you add Sparkle. Topaz and FUA teams reach that level not because individually they are as broken as Sparkle, but because together these specific 4-5 units function so well, they buff each other exponentially more than what is seen on paper.
Many games have that. Pokemon VGC Incerniroar is broken because of a combination of stuff like intimidate, Fire Dark, Fake out, Lariat etc
Pot of Greed is banned by default not because inherently its broken and wins a game in a vacuum. It is an engine that is very efficient in its one job, resource gathering.
Lucian Nami in League are broken coz of their specific interactions in the kit that just happen to work together.
TLDR HSR is moving away from additive units in terms of power to multiplicative units in specific niches (Sparkle will add sth to every team, but in FUA teams Topaz is just exponentially more beneficial in the long run)
BRO THIS IS SUCH A GOLDEN WAY TO EXPLAIN IT HOLY FU-! I LOVE THIS!
idk where u get the idea that topaz fua team is better than sparkle team but that is simple NOT true. Unironically if u swap topaz with sparkle and put for example dr.ratio on atk boot, the team will clear faster by 1 cycle. Another fact, there are many many 0-cycle showcases for all recent MoC with Sparkle since her release, yet there are basically none with topaz or duo dps team which u ppl here glaze over so much.
@@businessaccount-h6v the same with Tingyun in place of Topaz. Topaz is only as good for Ratio as Tingyun is if you have her E1S1, which is a lot of investment for such a mid character.
W comment
@@businessaccount-h6vwill be interesting to see if this changes when robin releases.
Iyo somehow turned an Aventurine video to like 12mins of Acheron hypercarry 😂
we are moving away from hypercarry..... then acheron got released 😂😂😂
My favourite part though is calling Silver/Pela/Guinaifen/Black Swan/Kafka not being "powerpuffgirls" for the Acheron team. Then lets talk about trends. I went from 2-3 cycling MoC acheron side to 0-1 cycling. Its almost like adding another "power puff girl" to enable Acheron power .... Im confused what you're trying to say, legit.
The entire acheron team is Acheron + 3 poiwerpuff girls to give her stacks and damage. 100% Def shred on enemies alongside with dmg amp/ all res pen is literally what Powerpuff girls do, but in buffs - Acheron team does it in debuffs.
Maybe its going over my head but its literally the same shit in reverse
Edit;
Just to ilustrate a point, play Sampo and Welt to fullfill the role of Silverwolf and Pela. Your Acheron will be complete and utter garbage. Also, the "best" Acheron team at e2s1 is literally replacing 1 Nihility unit to give her a power puff girl. IDK, I feel like you're so insanely off whatever your argument is that its not even funny
Even more funny then that. The literal strongest team in terms of dmg output in the entire game rn is Acheron, Sparkle, Bronya, SW. This is a team with 2 buffers who can action advance, that he himself called hypercarry team.
P.S. Since this game only have TWO action advance buffers and BOTH of them respectfully IN the nuclear Acheron team.
I agree on the point of pulling on the LC banner, since there are A LOT OF crucial lightcones. The biggest outliers are Pearls of Sweat and DDD, which are making a big difference on many teams.
I cleared first half of MoC with Jing Yuan and second half and Ratio hypercarry with second half. Honestly, I just think it comes down to understanding when exactly to use your ults.People haven't had time to understand the mechanics, which is why their struggling. Hypercarry works just fine, you just need a unit that has good single target dmg to burst down Aventurine after the dice games on the second phase.
I’m glad Iyo brought this up because I noticed when fighting aventurine.
My Acheron team being Acheron, Pela, welt, Gallagher. If you hostage your ults. It makes it way easier to win the gambles since the game encourages you to do so as you get your ult back anyway.
This was a BANGER video, lots to think and discuss about
Aventurine is my first limited sustain. I can’t grab his LC this time and my current ones are kinda sucky, but I’m happy to have him!
IPC Emergency helped me beat swarm 5 and i could not be anymore happy. I have yet to tackle gold n gears 5 yet so we’ll see. Aventurine was thr missing link i needed to be able to get through it. Its insane
I understand you’re trying to say theres a difference between debuffers on your team and buffers on your team, but at the end of the day I really feel like you’re just splitting hairs. After all, Acheron is still the primary damage dealer on the vast majority of the teams she likes to be in, and everyone else’s job is to apply debuffs and enable Acheron’s ult, whether they damage the opponent or not.
I pulled him got e2 slotted into my Achron team adding debuffs with basic. Added the defuff light cone he is goated on my team for sure
the argument that acheron is the only one without a traditional buffer to 0 cycle is pretty bad IMO, her entire kit disables the use of those units, that the only reason why she is capable of that. Not saying she isn't strong, she definitely is but trying to make that claim is somewhat disingenuous when she would literally do less dmg if you gave her those supports. Use the right supports for the right carries
If you want to 0 cycle, the traditional buffer replaces the sustain.
Why leaving a spot for sustain when you nuke the enemies on the very first cycle?
TLDR - all debuffers can do more than just debuff, some buffers too! So stop building HP Def debuffers and buffers ya noobs!
I endorse this message completely, y'all need to get on the break effect hanya train
Bro they just released the greatest hyper carry of all time
I think if we were to determine roles, Acheron would probably be a carry most times. In a team with Pela, Guinaifen and trend MC she would take the role as a hyper carry, because every characters sole purpose is to enhance Acherons capacity, and in a DoT team with Kafka and Black Swan she would probably be a sub dps.
iyo calls it a new direction, most people call it character kit powercreep.
Acheron was spoonfed 160% damage for using two Nihility units. It might be a new direction if you willingly decided to use the Nihility units on your own for their own merit, but with the damage bonus incentive you are just pigeonholed into forced diversity. HSR HAD to do 160% damage bonus to tear people away from "hypercarry", like the Nihility debuffers weren't even slouches with their defense down. I assume we can agree that Acheron's stacking ultimate is just leagues better than an energy ultimate. You guys can give MHY their flowers for that, but to me that's just powercreep packaged nicely with the forced diversity.
You could have a better case with Aventurine, but most of this video is glazing Acheron. And the Aventurine discussion just boils down to one's perspective on his damage contribution and le stacking mechanics feel good.
Agree
Acheron literal most powerfull team in the game is Sparkle, Bronya, SW. You only MUST pull her e2s1, lmfao. (I did it myself. sad trombone)
I pulled Adventurene. I had Geppy and Luocha. I needed a great Sustain. I probably shouldn’t have pulled but I got him. Won’t need to pull Fu Xuan now. I still want Huohuo for my DOT team.
My Acheron team is now Acheron, Adventurene, Pela, and Sparkle.
"Defense scaling vs attack scaling is better, that's why 4k defense is like [lower number] attack"
Iyo, that means defense scaling is WORSE than attack, because you need a bigger number for the "same result"
I believe what you meant to say is that def% stats and base def are larger, so a lower def scaling on trace talents is equivalent to a higher atk scaling talent.
This also doesn't really hold water, but I think that's the idea you're trying to communicate anyways
Also, if your definition of hyper excludes any and all teams that include pela, your definition is wrong, full stop.
You can try to make these arbitrary definitions, but all you're doing is obscuring yourself and making it harder for others to understand you, because you're using an intentionally esoteric definition.
Dont think I agree with the "direction" change. Imo the game has been just that since 1.0 for relatable accounts.
I haven't been able to just slap in whatever to full star MoC for a long stretch of time and did need teams that actually function.
Also tried Mei Sparkle Bronya team as a F2P last MoC and I pretty much just die or it's extremely unreliable. If you're going to have some 175 SPD with 5 30cv pieces and/or E1s and/or S1s then yeah, but at that point you can probably do the same thing with anyone again.
Don't agree with *needing* sig LCs either, depending on what you mean with need. But even then, the only LC that changes playstyle is Acheron's as far as I remember, due to the extra stack.
If you stretch it then maybe Seele's due to not working properly without 1-shotting trash. But she was also fine for a while and if you just get the new character instead, you're off just as good if not better.
So far no issues to full star with 0 signature LCs.
I did get Acheron's for the newest MoC because the game decided to give it to me at 9 pity, but I also had 3 entire cycles spare for 3 stars, so was anything but needed.
I have some of the power puff girl characters but I hate the hyper carry play, So, I usually have a main dps, a support for them (or the whole team since I love Ruan Mei), a fill-in depending on what I need (but usually a follow-up dmg character), and then healer/shielder. Acheron made me really have to pull out characters like Pela and Ginny and make sure they were built. lol I will add that I rolled for Aventurine mostly because while I have Luocha and Fu Xuan already, I prefer comfort play and Aventurine lets me do that better than Fu Xuan does. I have anxiety when my characters aren't at/near full hp. Its silly but a thing.😅
I think the simplest way to explain why they change the game... is that they released the strongest DPS and the strongest sustainer back to back. Essentially if you just happened to be around to pull both of them... frankly you beat the entire game... and probably won't even take any damage while you're doing so lol
Also I disagree with the statement that having Loucha and Bailu would be enough reason not to get him. Bailu is not enough to solo sustain in the current MoC, hell even Loucha is struggling to solo sustain against so much AOE damage, so I desperately needed to replace Bailu with Aventurine to make it work.
there were a lot of times where I wanted to comment about your takes and definitions of certain game mechanics(hypercarry) and how off the mark you are by the general usage of that certain term. but almost always, I just end up reading comments and realizing that its only you that misconstrued that term in the whole of the comment section. makes me think that maybe its just for engagement. 😅😅
Also, thats an unfair comparison. to compare acheron to any other hypercarry. and end up not even agreeing that acheron is a hypercarry because her teammates debuff the enemy instead of buffing her is just insane. like keep in mind that acheron is just a broken character, and that her traces incentivizes her to run debuffers for an added dmg multiplier. that multiplier alone is a harmony character already. 🤣🤣🤣
Acherons team can also be ratios team. The debuffs dont batterie him but having 6 debuffs is so important to his kit.
@Yasper-2TS true i just meant if you removed acheron and slapped ratio into her team it would probably still work since debuffs of all sorts buff ratio.
Just curious, Iyo. Since you keep saying how everyone on an Acheron team has a purpose unlike other "hypercarry" teams... exactly what do you think is the purpose of a harmony character?
Nihility characters in Acheron team, their purpose is to debuff the enemy, therefore increasing Acheron's damage and giving her stacks (which is basically energy for her). I'm not wrong here, right?
Harmony characters in other teams, their purpose is to buff a character, therefore increasing their damage, or giving extra turns which gives them energy. Right?
What exactly is the difference? Why keep downplaying the other teams for no reason?
The wind set, the 170+ speed and all those stuff, they're all hefty exaggerations by the community, none of those are needed for a team with harmony characters to function or do the same things as an Acheron team. They are nice things to have sure, but not needed and sometimes even worse. I can make my Sparkle with 178 speed with 205% crit dmg, but she does worse than my normal build with 145 spd, just because of my damage dealer.
I love how iyo is known as the bad takes guy in the gacha space rn lolol
I hate it cause the game keeps proving me right. Lol
@@IyoverseI suspect that many hsr fans don’t play that many turn-based rpgs and if they do it’s probably on lower difficulties.
For those that have, enemy design like aventurine’s has been inevitable and predictable. So too has most of what you’ve been saying about team design.
Most people here are probably new to the genre. For future reference it might be a good idea to start the video with an example from pokemon or some other rpg (persona is another good pick imo), and then explain how hsr’s game design (and therefore team building) mirrors it.
People seem to emotionally attached to their current conceptions abt hsr to view its game state more rationally (saving for chars will do that to you).
@@JohnDoe-si4eg This is a dang good idea right here. I’m gonna try keeping it in mind for next talk.
I prefer 5 star sustainer, I have but do t use Geppy or Bailu. So I happily pulled Aventurine, I love him. He is doing great so far.😅 So for now, Loucha and Aventurine. I do have have Acheron at E2 with her LC. Also got Aventurine LC and still trying for his E1. Looking to get Topaz on her rerun.
I like the Pokémon baton pass analogy. Most E0 Acheron team are definitely not hyper carry. The only I can think of that is would be a pela silverwolf. But if it’s break effect silverwolf it’s no longer hyper carry. But the E2 teams that use pela as the sole debuffer are pretty much hyper carry. The spikes analogy was also spot on. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a + or -. If the main function of both is to clear the way or enable your dps to do more damage.
I can understand Loucha and other limited 5 star but Bailu and Gepard?
Can you give a more detailed explanation as to why possesing Gepard and Bailu means you dont need Aventurine.
Great video BTW
Been playing since 1.0 and I still have no pearls 💀 they need to put it on a banner
hey bro which light and camera do you use? if you answers I sub you look so clean and brax approved
honestly, I dont know why you focus on hypercarry vs whatever else you mean. Aventurine boss is not that hard, he is just annoying and requires quite specific units to beat. In general you are constantly on and on about team building and whatnot, but what really matters is not a team in a vacuum, but what each member brings to the table to beat a certain floor/boss. Star rail ain't vacuum, THIS is genshin brain. When you go against aventurine, you first and foremost think about how to counter him with what you have, not "hmm, what team has the best synergy out of all I have". Picking a dps of the right element and buffing him is just the best way to achieve the endgoal the fastest and with least investment. Just like dot teams dominate meme bossfight or those red dinos. You essentially are trying to create a cool tool without thinking of where to use it.
if you got topaz e0s1 and dr ratio/jing yuan then yes, very recommended. especially if u can get e1 aventurine. Especially perfect with ruan mei, almost unending hard hitiing passive follow up attck. You can try the team comp in the last stage of tides of war event, it slaps
Yea lol I was gonna comment this the tides of war trial characters team was dope! Unending follow ups! Topaz Dr. Ratio Aventurine and I threw in sparkle for skill points n action advance it was crazy. I got SS on that stage it was a blast!
The game is giving more focus to teams and that's something I enjoy. What I call a team is 4 players together, not 1 player and 3 cheerleaders like it happens often with hypercarry. Any other kind of composition is way more interesting to play, be it two duos, or duo dps, multi-dps like in Pure Fiction or subdps supports and so on.
30:30 Aventurine hitting 100k ults unbuffed? That's not something I've seen. Tho he does make great use out of "leftover buffs" that affect the whole team, Ruan Mei and Topaz mainly. On his best team (FuA DPS, Topaz, Ruan Mei) he can hit those 100k ults and 50k follow ups (given S1) which is when he really shines. I do think he has good potenmtial to grow into more teams as new FuA DPS and teamwide buffers are released as well. The fundamental value calculation still stands though, if you are pulling him for his damage, is it worth the two full pity's to get him E0S1 or are you better off spreading those pulls to vertical investment in your DPS or Ruan Mei for example. Most of the time the answer is likely the latter.
"For some reason 'you guys' only hear hypercarry you don't hear anything else I dunnno why you all do that?" - because we got Ruan Mei and Sparkle right after the other - seems pretty hyper carry-oriented to me since we can now build two teams for hyper with Bronya/Ting/Ruan/Sparkle. I don't see a problem with the majority of the player base having fun with it. It eliminates having to have dual DPS when Harmony/Abundance/Preservation don't even need 4pc set bonuses - they are more flexible than DPS to that end and easier to slot in.
Maybe that's just me and I doubt the game is ever going to force anyone into a different direction. If that's how players like to play - they will keep playing in that manner. The only thing that will guide players to engage differently is MoC for right now depending on enemy line-up and even then it's not hard to brute force from a hypercarry standpoint.
30 min of yap session HOLY NUCLEAR
the fact that Gepards shield is tied only to his ult makes him really restricted/weaker sustain. vs Aventurine who is tied to his skill and can stack it. also its duration and hp is refreshed by his FUA. easier to maintain. works with faster characters who get alot of turns, where Gepard would fall short unfortunately. if Gepard had some other way to refresh his shield other then fully recharging his ult it would be a dif story.
Yea yikes.. I lost my 50 50 to gepard. I wanna try him out, but Aventurine looks so much better.
Gepard's shield is a bit restrictive with teammates, since its a bit risky with really fast teammates. But aside from that, it works fine for the purpose of MOC. That pretty much only excludes him from jingliu, bronya+sparkle teams (if you only have 1 gepard fine), and sushang but no one runs sushang. And if you get really unlucky or screw up your ult timings you might have issues with seele, but she should have the shield at least a majority of the time.
I actually think the only cool buffer with Acheron is sparkle on with E2 Achedon or over the sustain
So, DHIL,SW,Welt,and Sparkle is not hypercarry holy Dumbness
It's also much nicer to pull on the HSR weapon banner (vs Genshin). I have yet to loose my 75/25 and I have 7 limited cones at this point. In Genshin, I went almost 2 years before I lucked into a 5 star weapon and it was from the standard banner. Even now, I only have 3 limited 5 star weapons and almost never risk the weapon banner
It all comes down to luck i guess, i lost 3/4 75/25 in HSR but i got all 3 in Genshin Kazuha, Raiden and Cyno for Xiangling
I wasn’t able to beat Gold and Gears stage 5 until today. I used Ratio, Topaz, Aventurine, Himiko in Elation path. Aventurine is why I was able to beat it.
Baton Pass is a horrible example. Shin Megami’s Tensei’s press turn system is much closer to how action forward works. Its not a Baton Pass either way because sometimes you cant bring them forward enough to take turn if you’re not using Bronya.
Are you saying e0 aventurine is hitting 100k per ult with just the ruan mei buff? I need to see that video. I like aventurine, but that sounds like a bunch of hooey lol
Problem with that its RNG. I got shit luck, I lost 9 50/50 and won 4 (day 1 player) so even if I want to build lets say FUA Im fucked because I just burned 150+ pulls JUST for Aventurine, so Im pretty sure Im not getting Topaz next patch. That mean that I have to wait another 6 months for her 2nd rerun.
Next patch MOC has 1millon hp Gepard BTW. The monster power creep its getting stupid.
Acherons "main" team is literally hyper carry... the sole purpose of the team is to get ONLY her ultimate as soon as possible and buff the damage output. Its literally the same concept of the power puff girls without using those characters.
This isn't including Aventurine i have to see his e0 S1 damage output to justify his place in the team.
This is the furthest thing from the truth because if that were the case, all of the teams would play the exact same, when in actuality they don't. Acheron also doesn't have a "main team" because, again, each of them play differently. Are we talking about DMG performance/cycle clears? Because then Acheron + DoT jump up and that's no way in hell a Hyper carry comp.
Is it the Pela + Swan? or Pela + Silver? Each of those limited 5stars being characters that the community vastly stood against pulling for during their initial banners (& rerun for Kafka). So by default it can't be a main team because most players don't have them.
We're definitely not talking about a Pela + Sampo or Guin on an Acheron team as the main one either because neither of those units are hyper-anything.
I swear it's like you guys cannot NOT call everything Hypercarry just because you see a Main DPS on the team being highlighted. No Acheron team is funneling DMG to SOLELY Acheron, in order to hyper carry her. Acheron is simply benefiting from these characters participating on the team to do their own DMG/debuffs/CC control, and then converting that into destructive DMG for HERSELF. It's not the same concept as the PPG at all, though I can see what you're trying to relate it to. I just don't believe it's true.
@@Iyoverse Just because a character is a debuffer doesnt mean they arent part of a hypercarry team. Take Pela in Jingliu hypercarry. Classic support. Works the same with Acheron. DoTcheron isn't hypercarry, but every other Acheron team pretty much is.
Edit: I just thought about this, but i dont see why a unit placing Sticky Web for your Megazard X isnt hypercarry.
@@Iyoverse the reason I used "main" and not "meta" is because most people wont have the acheron, kafka, black swan, ruan mei team since it is unrelatable to have 5 premium limited units with no sustain. And Acherons own traces basically disincentives anyone building her without using 2 nihility characters unless you pull for her eidolons which is insane to me. To me a main team consists of Acheron+ Pela and/or SW, Guin, BW + any sustain. The reason why I think she is a hyper carry character is that within this "main" team who are these debuffers benefitting that isn't Acheron? Acherons damage is so insane that it invalidates any other team members damage contribution because she does like 90 percent of the total damage in every team comp that isnt the "meta" team.
Nah swan does her own damage so it’s not hyper carey
I will always disagree on pulling on the LC. its an absolute trap and so are eidolons. Characters should always be prioritized no matter what, and since you won't always win a 50/50 having a reserve of rolls is better than better numbers. Imagine losing 50/50 in a row and don't have the reserve rolls tp get the character you really want? Shit fucking sucks, lost acheron because i lost 2 50/50 in a row.
I'll even consider it like cheating, end game content can be completed without it, so if you pay/roll for it, is essentially making the game easier for you. Can it be more fun? Yeah sure, but that's a decision ourselves should be making, it should NEVER be recommended to others because imo, the value is NEVER worth it.
I'm sorry but There is no way that in the Robin, dr, topaz team Aventurine be better than Huohuo
Had Luocha and Fu Xian, still pulled for Aventurine. I’m shocked how much better Aventurine solo sustains in comparison to Luocha.
Prepared player here! Been farming for Aventurine for 5 weeks. Over 4000 DEF with two piece grand-duke two piece wastelander, inert salsotto, imaginary orb, cit damage body. He can solo swarm 5 😎🛡️🎲
I love that we are leaning into team building - this is what makes games like this fun
- if you could beat all content with the same three supports and your flavor of the day dps -it would be hella boring
Iyo needs to Stream more, and I hope Iyo gets Partner with Twitch
It's been happening lately! lol
For sure he does
You got me back into the game, I quit because all the characters I pulled I didn't enjoy (Seele, JY, and Blade). But after watching your videos and hearing you say that people should be teams and now just single characters it made me look at teams more. In HSR I hate hyper carry teams, but I love follow-up teams and DoT teams. I'm back in the game and trying to build up this teams now!
19:20 but they kind of are. You use 2 Nihility to buff Acheron’s ult, use Pela+Penacony to buff Acheron’s ult, and use debuffs to get Acheron’s ult more often. The entire team is purpose built to have Acheron do more damage, so it kinda is a Hyper carry team because all your damage comes from one source and everything else only exists to buff that one source. The team I would consider not hyper carry is Swan+Kafka+Acheron because Swan and Kafka aren’t built to give Acheron more damage they are built to do their own damage and just happen to incidentally give Acheron a boost.
I kinda want to go for him because I neglected my Trailblazer, however, I went hard for Acheron and got sniped by Gepard (my first) during it.
So i lost my 50/50! I was pumped for Aventurine even tho i skipped Topaz for Ruan Mei.
I really wanted a second OP sustain all i have is fu xuan and 4 star sustains.
Guess who i lost 50/50 to?
FRIGGIN Gepard! I wasn't even thinking of him yo! Now.. ive been looking up year old videos of him and now im probably gonna build him.. aventurine n gepard both do shields.. just in different ways..
Idk..
i need a cosigner, should i stick with gepard or try n go "all in" for Aventurine n pull some more even tho i wont reach pity?
For those who doesn't understand why lyo thinks that Acheron's team is not hypercarry, here is my theory:
Imagine there exists a character that has the kit similar to the currently MOC debuff turbulence, i.e. if the current enemy is hit x times, then this character will do a follow-up attack, and the counter is shown as a debuff. In addition this character can also apply some def shredding debuff. You put this characters x 2 into your team. They stack Acheron's ult, and Acheron stacks their fua as well. See how this works? Current Acheron's meta team makes it look like she can only be the sole damage dealer (Acheron's damage being 80~90%, hence the Acheron hypercarry). But if there exists other strong damage dealers, maybe we can swap them in. ofc you can argue Acheron's contribution is minimal or every character can do that, or Archeron hypercarry is the headless best team. However, it's a kind of a gameplan mindset that makes everyone synergizes with each other in the team, and make the best damage out of it, instead of specifically used characters/weapons tailored to boost somebody's damage. If we look at some traditional hypercarry team, we can see that the main DPS sometimes does more harm than good except for damage, e.g. Jingliu takes away everyone's hp, and DHIL takes away skill points that originally could be used on other teammates, so they usually are not the best "team players".
How you gonna put 3 ads just in the first 3 minutes of the vid? CHILL dawg
Hoo boy am I glad that I got into Dot Teams with Kafka early.
Makes things easy for me.
47 rolls, didnt loose the 50/50, XO but got no resources to level him lmfao
I just want Aventurine cause he’ll complete my follow up attack team. Got Topaz, Ratio, and Clara, just hope I can get enough jades to pull him before his banner is over.
I kinda feel like we need to establish a different category of sustains.
Like Healing Sustains and Hard Sustains.
I feel like both bring different values for sustaining a party.
Just my thoughts on it.
Jingliu,bronya,pela and a sustain. Would that be considered hyper carry?
Yes
I've BEEN preparing I'm hyped
I would say he's a very strong pull if you don't have 2x of the big 3. Gepard, lynx, bailu, and gallagher are not included in that. I got him after gepard lynx sustaining through MOC 12 for many patches and it is night and day. He protects the team easily while doing damage for free meanwhile running Lynx they just die. And my Aventurine has sus relics, no sig, and meh traces compared to a built up Lynx
So what does DoT team need to reach acherons level? An exclusive harmony that buffs dmg and dot damage?
Can a team with E0Ratio Herta shop LC, E0S1RM, E0Aventurine trends S3 and E0S0 Topaz with Sleep like the dead apply enough de buffs for Ratio? I'm trying to decide between E1 or S1 Topaz and maybe Aventurine LC. Consider that Aventurine will also be used in a E0S1Acheron, E0Kafka fermata, E1S1BS. Aventurine having trends would still provide me with some, a bit more inconsistent debuffs in both teams, even better with his LC, and either S1 or E1 Topaz would be probably better for the ratio team. So, between this (E1 topaz, S1 topaz, Aventurine LC) which one would have rhe most value in total?
On the topic of the aventurine crit damage vs def body argument. The take that you brought up, that past 4k damage you gain very little in the way of sustaining so you might as well get damage cuz he can do damage, smacks take is the exact same:
He doesn't gain that much extra damage so you might as well run def cuz he can get more shields.
There's just one problem i have with BOTH your arguments. In your case it's how much more damage will he get? (Smacks vid did answer this and from what we saw there it ain't a lot). And in smacks case it's how much more shields do we get? (No one has answered this)
Me obsessed with getting Sustains since the beginning... And no I do not have Huo or Luocha 🤣🤣🤣 I wished I pulled for him but I DO NOT REGRET AIMING FOR GALLY!!!!!!!