That was the best visual explanation of the difference between rip and crosscut that I have ever seen! And it’s very easy to remember. Thank you very much for the great instruction.
I’ve found that adding about 7 or 8 degrees of fleam to you rip saw makes it leave a pretty darn good finish on crosscuts. It degrades the rip cuts far less than it helps the crosscuts. I still have dedicated cross and rip saws. However, these days, I almost always just grab my old Disston that I hybird filed. I did it on a 7 TPI rip (it’s somewhere between 6.5 and 8 TPI, I don’t actually recall). The smaller teeth still rip quick enough for all but the the longest rips in 8/4 hardwoods. I think the slightly less aggressive teeth helped what I was trying to achieve. But it’s worth thinking about. Keeping the Cutting Edge by Harold Payson is a gold mind of a book for sharpening saws. It is unmatched in helping you become knowledgeable about what you should try and achieve when filing your saws.
When cutting 45° miters with my ryoba I find that the crosscut teeth are far superior, I wood say that the ripcut not really come in handy until you are within about 30°of the grain direction.
I use a 4 point rip saw for rough crosscuts in stuff like fence posts; things that dont need to be clean. I start it on the forward stroke by using the bottom horn on the handle to lighten the toe. Itll cleave through 4inch material in seconds. But obviously a crosscut saw is needed for things that need to be cleaner :)
Welp, there goes another spike in the vintage tool market right before I was going to buy one of these anyway, lol. But seriously, fellas, thanks and keep up the good work.
Very clear and concise explanation - many thanks! Also, kudos for getting the video runtime within a second of Joshua's ripsaw video - either your editing skills are peerless, it the two of you share a brain more than you realize ;-)
Sharpened with a slightly relaxed rake angle, the ripper can cross-cut extremely well, but ideally you should carry three saws. Rip, Cross-cut and Panel saws
Do you mean Back saws? I was under the impression that the broad-bladed saws he's using here (regardless of tooth angles) ARE panel saws, because the blade is a metal panel as opposed to a thin blade stretched in a frame.
@@Nurk0m0rath panel saws tend to be 20"-22" in length and are used for cutting thinner sheet materials. Cross-cut saws tend to be between 22"-24" and used for cutting across grain. Rip saws tend to be24"- 28" and used for cutting with the grain. All are handsaws, but the saws in question possess broad tempered saw plate and low tooth count per inch. They're heavier duty saws than tenon saws, but not all are intended for sawing sheet goods. The saw that's in use is a rip saw, not a panel saw. Rip saws tend to be used when cutting heavier timbers with and not across the grain, but tooth rake can be eased so they cut both with and across the grain. Frame / turning saws are a separate saw type utilising narrower saw plates held under tension within a frame and with coarse, medium and finer blades for use depending on materials being cut.
@@gazpal You misunderstand me. My understanding is that "panel saw" is a broad category that includes both rip and crosscut saws, and possibly also back saws. I've never heard of a specialized saw for cutting through sheet material. In my experience, a crosscut saw does that job perfectly well. Which leaves a joinery saw (of which there are many designs, btw, but many are collectively known as back saws) as the third necessary saw.
@@Nurk0m0rath No, you misunderstand the definition of panel saw, which is in fact a narrow category of saw used for cutting sheet goods, with higher tooth count per inch which tend to be sharpened for cross-cutting. Rip, Cross-cut and Panel saws are the three a carpenter/joiner used to carry on site or use within a workshop before the advent of disposable saws.
@@gazpal Okay, guess you learn something every day. But I really can't imagine a joiner going to a job site without any kind of joinery saw. Sorry, just can't see it.
I would think the 1-inch chisel at 45 degrees on the sample board would have to follow the grain (cutting out as oppoised to cutting in), or it would be as disastrous or even worse than at 90 degrees
The funny thing is that the only real antique crosscut saws that I have ever seen are the four and a half to ten feet long one or two man saws with about one tooth per inch.. In Jr high woodshop in the 1970's the crosscut saw was described as simply having finer teeth than a rip saw. I had never seen a normal handsaw sharpened with a crosscut pattern until about twenty years ago.
Was the old timers so concerned with teeth reshaping -set-sharpening those days? Today It seems an engeneering Degree Is needed to properly maintain a saw. Im looking for a more practical approach..
You can do trial and error, do a test cut after sharpen and see how it feels. Your saw is your preference. I put a slight angle on my rip saws and it helps a lot for curving grain. Like the video says, try it see what you think.
No, in most cases. There's a lot of overthinking (and overmarketing) these days, and the general-purpose, (relative) low-intensity, low-frequency work done now usually requires a fairly small number of sharpening techniques. Rip saws are very easy to sharpen, but even crosscut saws aren't that bad. The important part of sharpening is patience. Shaping, jointing, setting, sharpening--you just have to be consistent and not take any shortcuts. Though it takes a little practice to get to understand how changes in stuff like set and rake angle can affect your cut slightly, the first saw that you sharpen on your own will probably still be far better than the junk sold in stores these days (unless it's a Japanese store, I suppose). Regarding the old-timers, some of them had very specific needs that required them to be exceptionally attentive to their saws because their professions depended on it. Large crosscut saws and anything that has to deal with green wood come to mind.
Calro, A normal carpenter (in those days) could sharpen a saw in about 5 minutes (rip or crosscut), set the teeth about every 7-10 sharpenings, taking about 5-10 minutes. Nowadays, you can do it in the same amount of time- you just need to know how to. Search RUclips for an old english guy who shows how without all the fluff.
@@bestbuilder1st Paul Sellers is you man to explain this, he has some excellent tutorials on saw sharpening (and hand tool use in general). It really isn’t that difficult, give it a go on a rip saw first to get a feel for sharpening.
![NoCap - Maliboo [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FUV7E0QyniU/mqdefault.jpg)
That was the best visual explanation of the difference between rip and crosscut that I have ever seen! And it’s very easy to remember. Thank you very much for the great instruction.
Exactly my thoughts.
Excellent - thank you guys!
Usual cross cut saw I use...Disston D-100 ( the one with the wood handle) from 1927. There is also a D-115, 10ppi. And a D-8 , 7ppi.
I’ve found that adding about 7 or 8 degrees of fleam to you rip saw makes it leave a pretty darn good finish on crosscuts. It degrades the rip cuts far less than it helps the crosscuts. I still have dedicated cross and rip saws. However, these days, I almost always just grab my old Disston that I hybird filed. I did it on a 7 TPI rip (it’s somewhere between 6.5 and 8 TPI, I don’t actually recall). The smaller teeth still rip quick enough for all but the the longest rips in 8/4 hardwoods. I think the slightly less aggressive teeth helped what I was trying to achieve. But it’s worth thinking about. Keeping the Cutting Edge by Harold Payson is a gold mind of a book for sharpening saws. It is unmatched in helping you become knowledgeable about what you should try and achieve when filing your saws.
When cutting 45° miters with my ryoba I find that the crosscut teeth are far superior, I wood say that the ripcut not really come in handy until you are within about 30°of the grain direction.
Excelent way to explain the difference between the two saws. THanks.
Thanks for explaining this clearly!
A friend recently gave me an old saw, in some kind of state. Although it had some pit rust, I will try to make it useful as a crosscut saw.
I use a 4 point rip saw for rough crosscuts in stuff like fence posts; things that dont need to be clean. I start it on the forward stroke by using the bottom horn on the handle to lighten the toe. Itll cleave through 4inch material in seconds. But obviously a crosscut saw is needed for things that need to be cleaner :)
Love your shop
Pretty interesting indeed! 😃
Thanks a lot, dude!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Brilliant I get it now! Thanks heaps.
Welp, there goes another spike in the vintage tool market right before I was going to buy one of these anyway, lol.
But seriously, fellas, thanks and keep up the good work.
My rip saw must just be some kind of special.😂
What a great demonstration on hand saw tooth technology
Informative. Thanks.
Very clear and concise explanation - many thanks!
Also, kudos for getting the video runtime within a second of Joshua's ripsaw video - either your editing skills are peerless, it the two of you share a brain more than you realize ;-)
Whoa, I hadn't noticed that. The Smoothing Plane video is also within a few seconds of these two. Uncanny. 🤣
Nice video! Keep it up! :)
Sharpened with a slightly relaxed rake angle, the ripper can cross-cut extremely well, but ideally you should carry three saws. Rip, Cross-cut and Panel saws
Do you mean Back saws? I was under the impression that the broad-bladed saws he's using here (regardless of tooth angles) ARE panel saws, because the blade is a metal panel as opposed to a thin blade stretched in a frame.
@@Nurk0m0rath panel saws tend to be 20"-22" in length and are used for cutting thinner sheet materials. Cross-cut saws tend to be between 22"-24" and used for cutting across grain. Rip saws tend to be24"- 28" and used for cutting with the grain. All are handsaws, but the saws in question possess broad tempered saw plate and low tooth count per inch. They're heavier duty saws than tenon saws, but not all are intended for sawing sheet goods.
The saw that's in use is a rip saw, not a panel saw. Rip saws tend to be used when cutting heavier timbers with and not across the grain, but tooth rake can be eased so they cut both with and across the grain.
Frame / turning saws are a separate saw type utilising narrower saw plates held under tension within a frame and with coarse, medium and finer blades for use depending on materials being cut.
@@gazpal You misunderstand me. My understanding is that "panel saw" is a broad category that includes both rip and crosscut saws, and possibly also back saws. I've never heard of a specialized saw for cutting through sheet material. In my experience, a crosscut saw does that job perfectly well. Which leaves a joinery saw (of which there are many designs, btw, but many are collectively known as back saws) as the third necessary saw.
@@Nurk0m0rath No, you misunderstand the definition of panel saw, which is in fact a narrow category of saw used for cutting sheet goods, with higher tooth count per inch which tend to be sharpened for cross-cutting.
Rip, Cross-cut and Panel saws are the three a carpenter/joiner used to carry on site or use within a workshop before the advent of disposable saws.
@@gazpal Okay, guess you learn something every day. But I really can't imagine a joiner going to a job site without any kind of joinery saw. Sorry, just can't see it.
I would think the 1-inch chisel at 45 degrees on the sample board would have to follow the grain (cutting out as oppoised to cutting in), or it would be as disastrous or even worse than at 90 degrees
The funny thing is that the only real antique crosscut saws that I have ever seen are the four and a half to ten feet long one or two man saws with about one tooth per inch.. In Jr high woodshop in the 1970's the crosscut saw was described as simply having finer teeth than a rip saw. I had never seen a normal handsaw sharpened with a crosscut pattern until about twenty years ago.
They are known as misery wipps
One and two man variety
45* is easy, it’s a a rip aCross the grain.
The camera insists on focusing on his shirt and not the stuff in the center
Was the old timers so concerned with teeth reshaping -set-sharpening those days? Today It seems an engeneering Degree Is needed to properly maintain a saw. Im looking for a more practical approach..
You can do trial and error, do a test cut after sharpen and see how it feels. Your saw is your preference. I put a slight angle on my rip saws and it helps a lot for curving grain. Like the video says, try it see what you think.
No, in most cases. There's a lot of overthinking (and overmarketing) these days, and the general-purpose, (relative) low-intensity, low-frequency work done now usually requires a fairly small number of sharpening techniques. Rip saws are very easy to sharpen, but even crosscut saws aren't that bad. The important part of sharpening is patience. Shaping, jointing, setting, sharpening--you just have to be consistent and not take any shortcuts. Though it takes a little practice to get to understand how changes in stuff like set and rake angle can affect your cut slightly, the first saw that you sharpen on your own will probably still be far better than the junk sold in stores these days (unless it's a Japanese store, I suppose).
Regarding the old-timers, some of them had very specific needs that required them to be exceptionally attentive to their saws because their professions depended on it. Large crosscut saws and anything that has to deal with green wood come to mind.
Calro, A normal carpenter (in those days) could sharpen a saw in about 5 minutes (rip or crosscut), set the teeth about every 7-10 sharpenings, taking about 5-10 minutes. Nowadays, you can do it in the same amount of time- you just need to know how to. Search RUclips for an old english guy who shows how without all the fluff.
@@bestbuilder1st Paul Sellers is you man to explain this, he has some excellent tutorials on saw sharpening (and hand tool use in general). It really isn’t that difficult, give it a go on a rip saw first to get a feel for sharpening.
Is it ripsscut?😂