Years ago I asked an engineer about why they designed something so poor. This was in the nineties with Chrysler. His reply : “ It’s on a Need To Know basis and YOU don’t Need To Know “ That’s when I figured out they weren’t much smarter than me and they were ranked below the accountants. Del
You should try fixing a Playstation 5...only leaked schematics (ps4 never had any leaked at all), 0 software support, 0 diagnostic tools, etc. I have to replace the wifi module, but there's no way to reprogram the MAC address. Luckily the console doesn't care if they don't match with the current software version, but if they start checking in a future software update the console becomes a brick. #righttorepair
Similar thing is starting to happen in automotive. I know the electronics business is even more complicated, especially when they don’t wanna share any information cause they never want you to crack it open or repair anything inside of the console
ITs a major safety component to fail. Car should provide enough to move it off the road and thats about it. I wouldn't even mind seeing the eco limit the top speed to about 5 mph on a steering failure like that.
@@pepeshopping I can accurately say limp was activated because it had a computer set default on there that I picked up with my scanner, which is indicative of limp mode. No, I wasn’t gonna try to take the car up to maximum miles per hour without steering unfortunately, that’s not how I do things
"an electric rack"... "into the limp mode"... right? benz is expensive to repair for sure. can it be these complications are made specifically to push customers to benz shops to repair and make private shops struggle? Apple's doing it with iPhones etc.
No. Most people don't understand the relationship between manufacturers and their dealers. They hate each other. The dealerships and techs make good money doing warranty repairs and recalls, and the manufacturer looses their shirts paying the dealers to do all this work. They may not act like it, but the last thing the manufacturer wants you to do is take your car to the dealer. Only 2 things can happen. If its a warranty job, they loose money. If its a customer pay job, the sale is between the customer and the dealer. They may sell some parts on customer pay jobs, but not always. Once the warranty is up, the dealer can buy parts from places like NAPA or Auto Zone.
I know most of you will get mad at me for saying this, but you can't expect technology based products to never change. You may not like the changes, but they're already here so if you want to work on cars, you need to keep up with them. And to be honest, its not that hard. As for the car in the video, here's the correct procedure. Before you start the job, you connect your scan tool and download the programming from the old steering module to your scanner. You then install the new rack and upload the programming that's on your scanner. The entire programming process should only take a couple of minutes. If the old module is damaged and you can't download the old software, you can get it from the manufacturers website. They have to make it available. When you get a bunch of U codes, its nothing to worry about. There are a couple of rare exceptions, but you never diagnose off a U code. The best example is a dead battery. It can cause 20+ U codes to be set, and they all go away when you replace it. I know its a pain in the ass to have to deal with limp mode. No one likes it, but they do it for a reason. In order for certain features like parking assist, lane keeping, TC, etc..., to work, they need information from the steering module to function properly. When you have an issue with any one of these systems, they always err on the side of caution. Do you want to be driving down the highway going 80 mph and be next to someone that just DIY'ed their computer controlled steering system? Or someone who just lost their power steering and has no idea how difficult the vehicle is to make turns? Its safer to deactivate a broken feature than take a chance and have the car do something unexpected. I stopped getting pissed at all of these changes when I figured out its job security. You make a living fixing cars. Work on whatever they dispatch to you.
I agree with you with most of what you said, but there are a few things that I don’t. Sometimes you can’t just copy the old data from one part and rewrite it to the other. Sometimes you do have to initialize it completely separately. I’ve ran into this a few times. It’s not always a copy paste type of scenario. As far as it being easy to keep up-to-date with technology on modern cars, I can see that if you work in a dealership on only one particular brand, it may be easy because the dealership will provide you all of the software and hardware that you need for all these electronic systems. As far as working in an independent repair shop, it’s hard to keep up with software and scanners. You can’t just buy an expensive scanner every couple months because a car requires it. Aftermarket shops don’t really spend money on something they’re gonna use once they’ll just refer that out to a dealership so we have to justify using that item more than one time or a few times to make our money back on it in order to be able to invest into it at least that’s how I do things around here.
Yes, it's getting absurd out there. Another case in point are the late model F150 tail lights where they're costing around $2000 for the part. And if the tail light fails, it affects other systems in the truck. These issues bring up the whole right to repair movement. People have been so conditioned to accept the model of you will own nothing and be happy. This all started with music streaming. I have resisted supporting this model as I saw how it'll lead to content providers controlling how I consume and keep content I paid for. I still buy music/movies that I like on physical media because of this. Already there have been instances of content being pulled from content providers that consumers have paid for without notice. This is going to continue until we as consumers stop supporting this nonsense. Louis Rossmann has been a prominent advocate for right to repair. He's attended many state legislature hearings to testify for right to repair laws. Sadly many of these politicians have been in the back pocket of industry lobbyists that have a vested interest to not see these laws go into effect.
With cars, its not as bad as you think. They can't stop you from working on your car. If you mess something up it probably won't be covered under warranty, but you can work on it. Also, all the information needed to work on a vehicle has to be available to the aftermarket. If you go to your local Ford dealer and buy the workshop manual and book of wiring diagrams for your F150, you have what I have. The real problem is the aftermarket techs are not keeping up with the new systems. Its not that they're being denied access to anything. They just don't know how to work on new cars. Right now, its really bad because there's been so much change in recent years. Eventually, the aftermarket should catch up. Until that happens, if you're working as an auto tech, its in your best interest to work for a dealership. I see all these younger techs waste a fortune at trade schools like UTI, and when they get out, they're barely qualified to be lube techs. When you work for a dealer, they pay you to go to factory training. Every expense is paid. You get paid your hourly rate while you sit in class. The sad part is, the average person has no idea they can get all this. If you get an entry level, hourly rate job at a dealer changing oil and cleaning up, all you have to do is show them you're a good employee and have potential. You'll first get setup with internet classes for the brand you work on. Get those classes done in a timely manner, and you'll get sent to factory training.
@@pepeshopping I would say water intrusion into the tail light assembly constitutes a failure which allows water to get into places that it shouldn't. So the lights did fail to cause at a minimum corrosion damage and at worst damage to modules such as the side obstacle radar. So what I said is right. ruclips.net/video/MUkFsuilVD0/видео.html
@@052RC That's a big negative. When you have to code modules parts so that other devices can communicate to it for proper operation, it limits ones ability to do work on said vehicle. While The Enthusiast Mechanic was able to code all the necessary modules to get that steering rack to work, there are other systems that are dealer only for coding. The Enthusiast Mechanic eluded to this along with another very good RUclips mechanic, Ivan of Pine Hollow Diagnostics. There were some jobs that he flat out said it's a dealer only job. So it's not about independent/non dealer techs not keeping up. Also, service manuals are getting harder to come by. I can't get any service manuals for my 2019 Toyota C-HR. I have to pay into a subscription service to gain access to them. You no longer have the option to buy the service manuals in hard copy or on CD. Even when you have a service manual on CD, that doesn't guarantee anything. I have two BMW motorcycles: a 2016 C650 Sport and a 2022 S1000RR. I was able to buy the service manual for the C650 from my dealer but couldn't for the S1000RR. At the time I bought the RR, BMW just changed their policy for selling service manuals....to not sell them to the general public any more. I managed to buy a used one from someone that the activation code still allowed another installation. Well, I thought I was set until BMW also shut down the update servers where the software for these service manuals would pull down updates to the technical literature. Tesla for the longest time withheld service manuals until Massachusetts passed a law requiring them to make the information available. But that still didn't get you all of the way. Parts are another issue and Tesla the last time I checked won't sell you all the parts available to the dealer. Back to the electronics, I'm still fortunate that the vehicles I own can still be worked on with the scan tools I have. For my vehicles I use a Thinktool Pros running Launch software and for my BMW motorcycles, I'm using a GS911. It's only a matter of time before more manufacturers make it harder to work on electrical components due to them being locked via encryption.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Years ago I asked an engineer about why they designed something so poor. This was in the nineties with Chrysler.
His reply :
“ It’s on a Need To Know basis and YOU don’t Need To Know “
That’s when I figured out they weren’t much smarter than me and they were ranked below the accountants.
Del
You should try fixing a Playstation 5...only leaked schematics (ps4 never had any leaked at all), 0 software support, 0 diagnostic tools, etc.
I have to replace the wifi module, but there's no way to reprogram the MAC address.
Luckily the console doesn't care if they don't match with the current software version, but if they start checking in a future software update the console becomes a brick.
#righttorepair
Similar thing is starting to happen in automotive. I know the electronics business is even more complicated, especially when they don’t wanna share any information cause they never want you to crack it open or repair anything inside of the console
Gm does the same crap!
ITs a major safety component to fail. Car should provide enough to move it off the road and thats about it. I wouldn't even mind seeing the eco limit the top speed to about 5 mph on a steering failure like that.
So, you cannot say that it went into limp mode as you never tested max speed, right?
@@pepeshopping I can accurately say limp was activated because it had a computer set default on there that I picked up with my scanner, which is indicative of limp mode. No, I wasn’t gonna try to take the car up to maximum miles per hour without steering unfortunately, that’s not how I do things
"an electric rack"... "into the limp mode"... right?
benz is expensive to repair for sure. can it be these complications are made specifically to push customers to benz shops to repair and make private shops struggle?
Apple's doing it with iPhones etc.
No. Most people don't understand the relationship between manufacturers and their dealers. They hate each other. The dealerships and techs make good money doing warranty repairs and recalls, and the manufacturer looses their shirts paying the dealers to do all this work. They may not act like it, but the last thing the manufacturer wants you to do is take your car to the dealer. Only 2 things can happen. If its a warranty job, they loose money. If its a customer pay job, the sale is between the customer and the dealer. They may sell some parts on customer pay jobs, but not always. Once the warranty is up, the dealer can buy parts from places like NAPA or Auto Zone.
@@052RC then this enforcement to sell cars through dealership need to stop. Unless there will be more problems with direct sales.
I know most of you will get mad at me for saying this, but you can't expect technology based products to never change. You may not like the changes, but they're already here so if you want to work on cars, you need to keep up with them. And to be honest, its not that hard.
As for the car in the video, here's the correct procedure. Before you start the job, you connect your scan tool and download the programming from the old steering module to your scanner. You then install the new rack and upload the programming that's on your scanner. The entire programming process should only take a couple of minutes. If the old module is damaged and you can't download the old software, you can get it from the manufacturers website. They have to make it available.
When you get a bunch of U codes, its nothing to worry about. There are a couple of rare exceptions, but you never diagnose off a U code. The best example is a dead battery. It can cause 20+ U codes to be set, and they all go away when you replace it.
I know its a pain in the ass to have to deal with limp mode. No one likes it, but they do it for a reason. In order for certain features like parking assist, lane keeping, TC, etc..., to work, they need information from the steering module to function properly. When you have an issue with any one of these systems, they always err on the side of caution. Do you want to be driving down the highway going 80 mph and be next to someone that just DIY'ed their computer controlled steering system? Or someone who just lost their power steering and has no idea how difficult the vehicle is to make turns? Its safer to deactivate a broken feature than take a chance and have the car do something unexpected.
I stopped getting pissed at all of these changes when I figured out its job security. You make a living fixing cars. Work on whatever they dispatch to you.
I agree with you with most of what you said, but there are a few things that I don’t.
Sometimes you can’t just copy the old data from one part and rewrite it to the other. Sometimes you do have to initialize it completely separately. I’ve ran into this a few times. It’s not always a copy paste type of scenario.
As far as it being easy to keep up-to-date with technology on modern cars, I can see that if you work in a dealership on only one particular brand, it may be easy because the dealership will provide you all of the software and hardware that you need for all these electronic systems.
As far as working in an independent repair shop, it’s hard to keep up with software and scanners. You can’t just buy an expensive scanner every couple months because a car requires it. Aftermarket shops don’t really spend money on something they’re gonna use once they’ll just refer that out to a dealership so we have to justify using that item more than one time or a few times to make our money back on it in order to be able to invest into it at least that’s how I do things around here.
Yes, it's getting absurd out there. Another case in point are the late model F150 tail lights where they're costing around $2000 for the part. And if the tail light fails, it affects other systems in the truck. These issues bring up the whole right to repair movement. People have been so conditioned to accept the model of you will own nothing and be happy. This all started with music streaming. I have resisted supporting this model as I saw how it'll lead to content providers controlling how I consume and keep content I paid for. I still buy music/movies that I like on physical media because of this. Already there have been instances of content being pulled from content providers that consumers have paid for without notice.
This is going to continue until we as consumers stop supporting this nonsense. Louis Rossmann has been a prominent advocate for right to repair. He's attended many state legislature hearings to testify for right to repair laws. Sadly many of these politicians have been in the back pocket of industry lobbyists that have a vested interest to not see these laws go into effect.
With cars, its not as bad as you think. They can't stop you from working on your car. If you mess something up it probably won't be covered under warranty, but you can work on it. Also, all the information needed to work on a vehicle has to be available to the aftermarket. If you go to your local Ford dealer and buy the workshop manual and book of wiring diagrams for your F150, you have what I have.
The real problem is the aftermarket techs are not keeping up with the new systems. Its not that they're being denied access to anything. They just don't know how to work on new cars. Right now, its really bad because there's been so much change in recent years. Eventually, the aftermarket should catch up. Until that happens, if you're working as an auto tech, its in your best interest to work for a dealership. I see all these younger techs waste a fortune at trade schools like UTI, and when they get out, they're barely qualified to be lube techs. When you work for a dealer, they pay you to go to factory training. Every expense is paid. You get paid your hourly rate while you sit in class. The sad part is, the average person has no idea they can get all this. If you get an entry level, hourly rate job at a dealer changing oil and cleaning up, all you have to do is show them you're a good employee and have potential. You'll first get setup with internet classes for the brand you work on. Get those classes done in a timely manner, and you'll get sent to factory training.
Get it right!
The lights did not fail.
It was the module bringing the CAN network down!
Bad design due to cost savings, but very different issue.
@@pepeshopping I would say water intrusion into the tail light assembly constitutes a failure which allows water to get into places that it shouldn't. So the lights did fail to cause at a minimum corrosion damage and at worst damage to modules such as the side obstacle radar. So what I said is right.
ruclips.net/video/MUkFsuilVD0/видео.html
@@052RC That's a big negative. When you have to code modules parts so that other devices can communicate to it for proper operation, it limits ones ability to do work on said vehicle. While The Enthusiast Mechanic was able to code all the necessary modules to get that steering rack to work, there are other systems that are dealer only for coding. The Enthusiast Mechanic eluded to this along with another very good RUclips mechanic, Ivan of Pine Hollow Diagnostics. There were some jobs that he flat out said it's a dealer only job. So it's not about independent/non dealer techs not keeping up. Also, service manuals are getting harder to come by. I can't get any service manuals for my 2019 Toyota C-HR. I have to pay into a subscription service to gain access to them. You no longer have the option to buy the service manuals in hard copy or on CD. Even when you have a service manual on CD, that doesn't guarantee anything. I have two BMW motorcycles: a 2016 C650 Sport and a 2022 S1000RR. I was able to buy the service manual for the C650 from my dealer but couldn't for the S1000RR. At the time I bought the RR, BMW just changed their policy for selling service manuals....to not sell them to the general public any more. I managed to buy a used one from someone that the activation code still allowed another installation. Well, I thought I was set until BMW also shut down the update servers where the software for these service manuals would pull down updates to the technical literature.
Tesla for the longest time withheld service manuals until Massachusetts passed a law requiring them to make the information available. But that still didn't get you all of the way. Parts are another issue and Tesla the last time I checked won't sell you all the parts available to the dealer.
Back to the electronics, I'm still fortunate that the vehicles I own can still be worked on with the scan tools I have. For my vehicles I use a Thinktool Pros running Launch software and for my BMW motorcycles, I'm using a GS911. It's only a matter of time before more manufacturers make it harder to work on electrical components due to them being locked via encryption.