I wonder if Eugene Stoner ever dreamed of all the things we can do with the ar 15. There is nothing else on earth even close to doing all this with two pins and a mag change.
I'm still saving up for glass for my 6,5 Grendel and you wave this fancy new caliber at me? I'm not gonna buy it! You can't make me! I'M NOT GONNA! Ok I probably will....
There's a narrow enough difference between the two that if you have one, you're not going to miss the other so much. But for my own use, I'll give 6mm a whirl.
I'm finishing up a custom 6.5 Creedmoor build and my nxt build was gonna be a 6mmAR/Grendel. All I need is a barrel, bcg and an optic for a 6 ARC that I was fixing to order then my cook stove starts leaking gas this morning. My fun money turned in to cook stove money
This is a great cartridge. The 6 mm AR and all the other variants of it has been for some time now. Hornady tweaks it, renamed it and boom. This will be a successful round.
130 TMK fits in an AR 15 Grendel magazine so I wouldn't see a huge difference moving to the ARC. I'd go with whichever one has the cheaper components which right now is the grendel. Glad to see even more options for the AR-15.
Mr. DIY how to painting welding fabrication it makes a lot of sense to me. If you are a target shooter and want it in an Ar15 this cartridge makes a lot of sense. Unlike 22 nosler or 224 Valkyrie it has a proven track record of performance already in its sibling wildcat configurations (6mm AR, 243 lbc, 6 grendel, 6 rat, etc etc). I think it’s a perfect blend for the small frame AR. I think this cartridge will be a success for Hornady as well as for shooters.
I was seriously thinking about getting a 6mm AR barrel to replace my 6x45 just so I could reach 1000yds. Now I just need to wait until someone puts the 6mm ARC on sale (but I probably won't wait)!!!
Paul Venn do you mean 277WLV? Is kinda cool. The problem (as I see it ) was the designed it to shoot supers and subs. Should have stuck with supers only to get max case length
I know the powder capacity would be reduced, but I think necking down (possibly shortening a bit) the 223 Rem case would make a good match for the 6mm. No bolt changes. No magazine changes (from standard 5.56). Just run NATO pressure and an 18" barrel.
Seems like it's really darn similar, just tweaked for AR's complications. I have your latest in my Watch Later list. Can't wait to see your take on SFP vs FFP.
Thank you for throwing in the 300 blk for reference! 6ARC definitely looks very interesting! Looking forward to seeing your breakdown on the new cartridge!
glad to see some numbers, so If you're primarily a deer and hog hunter stick with the Grendel. If you reload and shoot smaller varmints or longer range paper go ARC. So much better than a 223 for the military use even with shorter 12" barrels the speed is not that much off.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t a swing from 55gr to 108 gr projectiles necessitate a twist rate change? The 5.56 barrels have moved from 1:12 to 1:7 as bullets increased in weight with a smaller deviation.
I learned about the importance of bullet construction two years back. I was taking out prairie dogs and kept seeing impacts behind them. I was using a rifle that has never given me any issues and at ranges I shouldn't need to think. I was using 55 FMJ though. I tried holding left, right, low, high, and it felt like I was always missing high. I went back to my zero and took a shot on an especially fat one. A perfect shot with perfect recoil control. At about 150 yards, I saw the red hole appear and the tuft of fur puff away in a circle around it. He froze. Then he went back to eating. I was icepicking them the entire time. They all had little .224 holes in them. I tried a 55gr vmax and the next one EXPLODED.
I was working at a custom rifle shop in Goldsboro, NC 13 hours ago. The guy builds 6mmBR to 416 CheyTec. I asked him about 6mmBR vs 6mmARC. He's been building extreme rifles for 20+ years. He had heard of the ARC, but stated he had yet to see anyone use it in competition. I have a case of Hornady 6mmARC ELD, but no barrel has arrived yet to try it. I want to see the ARC vs BR. Good video. Have a great weekend!
I was glad to hear you finally mention the 6.5 prc. I bought one because I feel like it will be a great all around hunting gun and something I can do a few upgrades to and play around with long range.
i wouldn't. it seems like this is scaled down grendel. reduced bullet weight amd powder equally to maintain accuracy amd range so the only tradeoff seems to be energy on target for carried weight. this is a military cartridge for sure not a hunting one. built for full loadouts and more efficient then 5.56. in hunting your not carrying 200+ rounds and effect on target is more important than volume of fire. I'd stick with grendel in a game rifle and save the arc for a fighting set up.
I’ll still be running 5.56 for anything that isn’t hunting. Defensively, hunting wise and recreationally, 5.56 and 7.62x39 can tackle just about anything I’ve ever come across. That said, I don’t do long range stuff and even shooting 200 yards is a treat.
The real proof of concept for the ARC will be on the range and in the field. I'm going to be interested in barrel heat vs .223 and barrel longevity. I've put several thousands of rounds of .223 through my Rem 700 bolt gun and it's still shooting sub MOA. With a little bit of pacing, you can put a lot of .223 down range before the barrel gets hot enough to be a concern. Good stuff Kyle! Thanks!
I usually don’t get too hyped about new cartilages well maybe a little but not like this one lol. I love the Grendel and I been shooting them for a few years now. Actually just finished up a 12” Odin works build but have an 18” faxon and 16” Anderson. Funny cuz Ever since I’ve been shooting the Grendel I’ve loved it but always thought someone should neck it down to 6mm and have a wider range of bullets and more velocity with almost the same energy. I pretty much exclusively deer hunt with my Grendel now and it does awesome. Plan on swapping out that 16” Anderson 6.5 barrel for an 18” ballistic advantage 6mm arc
Solid analysis as usual, "yet another cartridge" : ) . i think technically a problem with early M16s was the lack of chrome lining, not a lack of cleaning
jacksn hawker another Mc Namara wis- kid screw up. He took the chrome lining out and went to a ball,powder causing the gun to cycle to,fast. Ball powder got a bad name and so did the AR. This man was so smart he was plane stupid. Politicians should stay out of military matters. Who ever heard of a firearm that didn't need to be cleaned??? I lived through this era .
I have no doubt that this is better than 5.56 and I wish this would completely replace it but I'd like to see data on barrel lengths that most people use in their AR15's ranging from 11.5" to 18". No one shoots 24" barrels on an AR which is what all the current data is based on.
We in the highpower community have been using 6mm grendel variants for years. I've personally used the 6mm fat rat and the 6mm Turbo. This year however I'm just using a standard 6.5 grendel. I've found a combination of a 28" barrel, 107 smk, good strong bolt and a full length rifle buffer filled with tungsten I can push the 6.5 just as fast and don't have to form brass. Hopefully having a spec cartridge like the 6 arc, brass will be easy to find. Also I never had any trouble with the 40 degree shoulder of the 6mm Turbo 40 feeding from the magazine in an ar-15.
Hornady and the military showed the problem with going to a 308/6.5cm in an AR10 platform. It's a 30% increase in weight for the rifle and ammo. If you look at military rifles through out history you'll see a pattern. The number one requirement is RELIABILITY. Most military rifles and cartridges are a little more mild in recoil and velocity than the civilian model. The military needs long term reliability in serious adverse conditions. Most military rifles are loose bolts and chambers. That's not because of quality control. It's by design. It might hurt accuracy, but it means the rifle has a better chance of functioning when dirty. Look at an AK or an M14 or M1 garand. Not the match versions, the standard military issue versions. The 6mm ARC compared to the 5.56 nato is a huge improvement. Nearly double the energy and range. About double the BC. The 6mm ARC has a recoil that's low enough for the shooter to spot their own long range shots. Not as easy with a 308, 6.5cm, and especially with the 300WM. A military main battle rifle doesn't have to be the best at anything. It needs to be a compromise and be pretty good at a lot of things. The military tested this cartridge with 14 to 24 inch barrels. The accuracy, velocity, and energy were acceptable for what the military needs a rifle to do. They're not hunting elk, they're hunting people. I hope this cartridge is accepted as the main battle rifle cartridge. 62gr 5.56 or 105gr 6mm? No contest.
I've been looking for an AR in .243 caliber, finally. I'm glad I didn't get the 224 Valkyrie. I had considered it, working off either the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC case. 6mm ARC with lighter bullets should have higher muzzle velocities than the 6.5 Grendel.
What nobody is talking about with these somewhat new and brand new cartridges is barrel life and cost of components. I know 6.5 Creedmoor is so hot right now but it has around half the barrel life of 308 Winchester. 6mm Arc will have around half or less than half of the barrel life of 223. So for competition shooting or prairie dog hunting, these older cartridges are cheaper to shoot and barrels will last much much longer. When you blow through 1-2000 rounds in a weekend prairie dog hunting, that's a lot of money in barrels...
Curious to see how this catches on. I just got into 6.5mm Grendel, and the initial load developments look good. I'm a huge fan of 6mm Creedmoor, so if I can get decent performance out of the 6mm ARC in a smaller AR-15 frame size this might save me stocking multiple components. But who am I kidding...I'll probably add a 6mm ARC and a few others before I'm done. If I'm ever done... Thanks for the comparisons.
You hit it! Those results are being intentionally emitted! All the RUclips testers have been given 24 and 26 inch pipes to test these guns. The hype is in full swing. Anyone with a 20 inch barrel version never publish's the chrono numbers.
Just ordered a 20" barrel. What sold me was the variance of bullet weights readily available locally for cheap.What powders are we looking at here? Digging the dry data dump style. Keep pewing!
Built a 6mm-45 (6mm-223) It love 85gr. Sierra BTHP's. Moving out a 2750fps. I'm looking forward to built or buy 6mm ARC! To reach out to longer distances, My 6mm-223 hit hard on steel at 300yds. I have not pushed it out further than that yet. looks like the ticket for the job!!!!!!!
Very interesting video. For me, it confirms what I thought - it's really cool, but I have no use for it right now. My hunting is too short range with very few shots past 100 yards and the longest range target shooting I can do around here is 200 yards. I'll stick with supersonic .300 Blackout for my hunting/defensive AR and use the 5.56 for plinking. Then I already have different weapon platforms for big-bore thumpers and 1 flat shooter for long-range. Thanks for the info!
I'm curious what this can do in a 16" and 12" barrel. 12" grendels are popular lately, and while they aren't flat shooting from a short barrel, they apparently keep the terminal sweet spot really well despite the lower starting velocity. How might the 6 arc compare? It'll be faster so maybe its trajectory will be respectable even with a short barrel, but how will it do terminally? Will it be effective on 2 AND 4 legged pests like the grendel? Even in a pistol? That's what I want to know. I'm really into AR pistols now, they're the new brushgun evolution of the truck gun. Being handy is AWESOME, but if you can get legs too? That's a win win.
What about 6.8 spc, especially out of a 14.5” barrel for dual purpose, range and close quarters? Weird it was omitted from your list, but you had inferior 556, 300blk and 7.62x39.
The arc isnt the first grendel necked down to 6mm on the block or 6mm thats very similar. Theres already the dasher, the 6mm ar, the 6mm ar turbo, etc.
Great vid! I hope 6arc has better brass life than the valkyrie, I’ll wait a bit for some feedback from my fellow reloading nerds before I build one in AR. I’m thinking of the possibility of a sub 4 pound mountain rifle along the lines of a mini action Kimber mountain ascent. One can dream.
The brass carnage and the barrel twist confusion really sank the 224 Valkyrie in the gas gun world. And it’s difficult to get it to group. The 6,8 suffers from low velocity and low BC when it comes to distance work
My 6.8 always delivers for the intended purpose (deer and hogs within 150yd). Is it an all-purpose one-gun? Of course not, but I never intended to own just one😉
For hunting a deer at ranges up to 300 yards. 6.8 SPC II hits harder and has a better bolt face size and doesn't suffer from the Grendel belted case When loaded hot. The problem with the SPC II is it takes a handloader to take advantage of its true attributes. best thing about the new ARC is the factory support. Too be fair, Harrison B. designed the 6mm predator first and Hornady made some inconsequential changes, renamed it and hear we are.
One thing that comes to mind with all of the new calibers in both the M4 varients and AR10s is the new ballistic testing on armor ratings. We are getting higher velocities now.
Great information. This was the most informative vid out there. With Johhny RB going AWOL, you'll now be my go to for reloading this round =) Hopefully speer will bring back their .243 gold dot.
If it takes off, the disadvantage in magazine capacity could conceivably go away (if the cartridge dimensions allow) when an enterprising company makes a 6ARC-specific 30 round magazine. Magpul did it with 300 Blackout.
Magpul only had to address feeding reliability with .300 blackout. Any 30 round 6.5 Grendel /6mm ARC magazine will by necessity have to be longer than a 5.56 30 round mag, which is already as long as can be practical, or too long depending on which shooter you ask.
I’m really glad you did this video 👍 finally someone who I actually believe what they say about ballistics of rounds. Most people I take what they say with a grain of salt. BTW I really really love my 6.5 grendel
Yeah i don't see why to change from a grendel. Especially if it has more energy inside 500 yds. I feel like there is no need to change for me. The only argument for me would be unless it kicks significantly less allowing cqb easier and quick shots up to 100 yds for fast multiple rounds on target.
It’s the DoD SOCOM spec for high BC’s at distance in the AR-15 form factor that is driving this. 6.5 can’t quite get the necessary velocity because the spec requires chamber pressures to not exceed 52,000 psi
What I like about the 6.8 SPC II is that a 16.5 inch barrel can throw a 95gr ttsx 2750 fps. the 6mm ARC is been given a High BC target bullet and 26 inch barrel to achieve hyped up numbers. What is the 6mm ARC doing with the same 16.5 inch barrel and 95 gr ttsx's? 2400 FPS?
6mm is kind of that perfect transition between the small side of big game and the big end of varmint. 22 cal is a bit too small for deer (JMO) and 6.5 doesn't quite have the light bullet selection available since Sierra discontinued the 85gr bullet in 6.5. You basically only have 90 TNTs or 95 VMAX left in 6.5mm. Neither are quite light enough to hit the speeds that a 55gr-60gr bullet in 6mm can. The 90 TNT can hit 3000 fps in the Speer data, but the 95 VMAX tops out around 2700 in the 18" barrel used in Hornady data. The 6ARC however can hit 3300 fps in the Hornady data with a 58 VMAX in the same 18" barrel. That means that at 300y the 6 ARC has considerable advantages in flat shooting (1.3 moa less drop) and windage (6 moa less wind). But the 6 ARC has such a low BC at 58gr that it's already got a major energy disadvantage to teh 6.5G: only 584 lb-ft vs the 6.5G's 870 lb-ft at 300y. The 6mm Hornady bullet closest to the 95VMAX in BC is the 87gr VMAX. And the 6 ARC gas gun data, it's topping out around 2700-2800 fps. Which is close to where the Grendel is with a 95gr VMAX. With similar speeds and BCs, these loads would have nearly identical windage and drops, with the heavier bullet having more energy. Finally, the heavier end of Grendel bullets is the 130 ELD in the Hornady data, and it's only going 2350fps with a .277 G7. The heavy 6 ARC is the 105 bthp (gas gun data doesn't include 108 ELD) and it is going 2550 with a .253G7. The speed of the Grendel here gives it poorer long distance performance in terms of drop and sonic range, even though windage is identical. The ARC is slightly more versatile owing to the lack of truly light 6.5mm bullets and can have longer sonic range. For my uses, I'll take the 6.5G for the heavier and higher SD bullet capability and commonality with my 6.5cm in bullet caliber.
Looking at the SAAMI drawing the case looks a lot like 6PPC with the shoulder bumped back a bit. Hornady even says 6ARC is based on 220 Russian just like PPC or the 6 grendal wildcat I’m just not sure what this offers in a world where 6GT 6BR 6 dasher and a whole lot other good short 6mm cases already exist.
Except it’s a DoD SOCOM specification. Hornady simply did the engineering validation in order to get SAAMI certified. Which I appreciate because now there will be 20 barrel makers and not one little shop making barrels. The reason why 6mmAR and 6mmARTurbo remained a small niche was because of IP royalty issues - especially on the dies and the reamers. At least now I can get a full length sizing die in 6ARC for $60.
Thanks for this great rundown. I've been looking at these AR 15 calibers for several years now, as I have a custom AR 10 in .260. It's an amazing rifle and will shoot
Good info, but...Hint: Nice charts, except for some of us with color blindness. My wife says there are 7 data sets, I see 4. Maybe switch to a dark grey background and making the lines thicker? Anyway, liked the rest of the vid.
Excellent coverage of the 6mm ARC and how it compares to other cartridges. Especially the .223. It also solidifies my decision NOT to get into the 300 black out. Great content.
The ARC and 300BO are not comparable in any way. If you need the speed of the ARC, 300BO shouldn't even be on the radar. My 10.5" suppressed SBR says the ARC can never do what it does best.... Run ultra quiet, subsonics, suppressed in a DI gun.
I'm kind of new to firearms and ammo ballistics. What is the minimum length barrel needed for 6mm to be most effective, and what happens when you go down below a 16-inch barrel? What about less than 12 inches, or even 9? How does it shoot suppressed and/or with subsonic ammo?
Don’t forget about the 6GT. GAPrecisions kinda new cartridge. Kinda new because it’s been out for a little less than a year. Based off the 47 Lapua. Check it out.
What worries me are the magazines and feeding issues. I’m not sure what Barrett used for the Rec7’s in 6ARC they provided for the DoD/SOCOM Contract. Barrett is very mindful about their SOCOM relationship. The Proof Research 18” Carbon barrel and Nightforce ATACR scope certainly got my attention 👀. The Geisselle trigger and Radian charging handle aren’t standard Rec7 DI parts either.
That may be part of the reason why 6 ARC has a shorter distance to the shoulder. You can chamber a 6 ARC in a 6.5 Grendel gun, but not the other way 'round. Smart.
There's a reason they're comparing 6mmARC to 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel remains the top dog. More energy and better BC, they're both niche cartridges, but the 6ARC might find a place.
The ARC has a slightly better specs than the 6.5 Grendel but to me not significant enough for me to justify getting the ARC when I already have a Grendel.
Don’t forget about GA Precision’s new’ish 6GT. Based off the 6.5x47 Lapua. Now, idk if it will function in an AR but it’s new’ish for the bolt PR guys. Cheers.
Hornady may have commercialized the 6mm ARC, but it has actually been around since at least 2005 in various forms i.e. the 6mmAR, 6mmAR turbo, 6mm fat rat, along with a couple others I can't think of right now. Hornady is just good at marketing I guess.
I get it, it has more energy, but my 224V hand loads using 80g eld at 2925fps (22" barrel) shooting 1/3 moa has a 1,000 yards numbers of 364.7 ft-lbs at 1432.8 fps and 7.8 mils of elevation. So, for hunting something big at long distance(although I'd use something else) or military use maybe, but to ring steel or varmint, I don't see any advantage. I'm not afraid of a new caliber, but must make sense for me to embark on the wagon.
@@petersouthernboy6327 That's quite possible, but normally is the industry that "sells" an idea to DOD, which is well known to be stubborn, see how long it took to do anything to move from 308 to 6.5C.
@@cs_yt - yeah, I get that. To be fair, every NATO army and SWAT team still uses .308 for their common sniper rifles, there are thousands of commercial ammo choices out there with a gazillion rounds in storerooms, and to be honest the .308 is still perfectly good up to 800 yards or so and the barrel life is excellent. I own three AR-10's and I certainly wouldn't want to carry one of those or an M21 or M110 SASS with a full ammo loadout up and down the mountains of Afghanistan that's for sure - so I do get why DoD is trying to stretch the AR15 form factor out a few hundred more yards. I'm sure that it will take at least five more years for big Army to get it's new Next Gen Squad Rifle out (eye roll). The 5.56 just doesn't cut it past 400 meters - and especially if you're shooting up or down mountain grades with any sort of wind.
So, bottom line; 6.5 Grendel has more energy further, with a tiny bit more drop and wind drift than 6mm ARC. With a good optic and the shooter doing his job correctly, 6.5 Grendel is a better choice for dropping the wack. 6.5 is cheaper, much cheaper... Hornady is $1.20 a shot for 6mm ARC if you can find it! Wolf is $0.29 a shot for 6.5 Grendel. No comparison at this point. And just as many .243 bullet choices as there are .264 choices for handloading. Seems to be a bit too hyped for what it is. I'm in the middle of a 6.5 Grendel build; why would I switch at this point? They don't even have the barrels and dies out yet according to Brownells. Want to wait 6 months (after hunting season is over) for a set of dies and a barrel, then 6mm ARC is the way to go!
300blk is a great pdw, short range round. Especially if you want the performance of a pistol caliber carbine in a AR with more punch when suppressed. But I haven’t use for such, so I stick with 5.56 for general use.
Looks like a great, versatile cartridge... but we already have a 6mm based on an improved 7.62x39/220 Russian case that is time proven and may be the most accurate cartridge ever conceived. It's call the 6mm PPC. But Hornady needs to have something "new" to push on the shooting public.
6x45 is overlooked and has been around for years it's just a sized up 223 brass so it's just a barrel swap that and 6 mm mongoose is another one that is a great
As a bare-bottomed infant to the PRS space, I have learned an enormous amount from this and other Soc. Prog. videos. Thanks ! This one in particular makes me wonder, however, about the age old question... "Which came first, the cartridge or the gun?" .243 WIN has been around for decades. The 6 mm Creedmoor has been out for 10+ years. Is there something about one or both of these cartridges that make them ineffective? Just curious really.
Both of those cartridges are phenomenally effective, and .243 Winchester is still my favorite of all time. 6mm ARC is a lesser cartridge - though not by as large a margin as I expected - that fits an AR15. That's about it. The bigger cartridges will wipe the floor with 6 ARC.
Great video as usual buddy. I tell ya there seems to be a new flavor of the month every month ha ha. As you know i love 6mm cartridges especially the 243, this May be something to look at. Could you imagine a handload running a 108gr Berger VLD 😳
Hey man. Great video as always! For the grendel, what would you recommend ammo-wise for hunting out of a 12 inch barrel pistol for hog, deer, coyotes, and other animals?
Hello. I am a new subscriber and new to shooting and reloading. I was in the USMC 35 years ago, but haven't really shot much since then. I am a Mechanical Engineer and have a fair amount of technical training (BS, MS, PhD). I only say this to try to establish SOME credentials, since I am an obvious novice on these topics :) In any event, the question that comes to mind when carefully watching your video is why not just purchase a 6.5 Creedmor? It appears to be flatter shooting, fights the wind better, and retains more energy for more distance than the 6mm ARC, per your discussion. I just went to the CMMG website and it has the Endeavor 300 in both calibers. Am I missing something? It doesn't appear that the 6mm ARC is more interchangeable with standard 5.56 equipment (need a new barrel, bolt, and magazine). I am sure that I have just missed a key advantage, but I would appreciate any insight.
@@SocialRegressive Thank you for the response. I had not noticed the details in the CMMG description of the Endeavor 300 about weight and length. You are absolutely correct - the 6.5 Creedmoor Endeavor 300 is a bit more than 2 lbs heavier and 5" longer than the 6mm ARC Endeavor 300. I also was not aware of the naming convention where the smaller frame is referred to as an AR-15 while the larger frame is referred to as an AR-10. I am presuming this is a kind-of unofficial naming convention that experts use to distinguish size; maybe something like the 1911 (traditional, .45 ACP, 7-8 round magazine) versus the 2011 (double-stack, typically 9mm with 12-16 round magazine)?
I just did some web research. It appears to me that the designation of AR-15 vs AR-10 is kind of what I suggested above. It used to mean specific rounds and a specific design, but now it mostly seems to be 'smaller' (AR-15) or 'bigger' (AR-10), with each have multiple rounds that can be used. So, again, thank you for your fine work and I appreciate your patience with a new and sometimes ignorant shooter.
I've heard that the 6.5 Grendel round has feeding issues in an AR mag due to the long bullet and short case. I've also heard the 6mm ARC round has a different shoulder angle. Does this alleviate feed issues on the AR platform? How reliable is 6nm ARC in an AR?
We're about to find out. Like you mentioned, the shoulder angle is a little different, which should help. We may find some issues with shorter bullets.
Thanks for the vid. Particularly enjoyed the side by side ballistics data. 6mm ARC is very similar to .224 Valkyrie in ballistics, but newer and less popularity/support.
Wind drift of a 100 grain bullet at 1000 yards. This is the superior round at less than 600 yards. I wouldn't pick it for longer distances. For that you want a heavier bullet for less winddrift calculation or error. 6.5prc is my pick, which doesn't work in ar15 or even AR10 (I think).
That's a tough question. The burn consistency should be wonderful with any of these, and there are plenty of good bullets available. I think it's a question of ammo compatibility with each rifle that will determine accuracy.
Have AR15 Performance's 6mm Preditor (6mm Grendel) and it's fantastic. Also testing the 22 Preditor ... Great concept for AR. I wish Hornady had not shortened the case ... Not sure why they did.
I am going to use an AR in 6.5 Grendel in Gas Gun class for PRS since it is limited to 800 yards. I do not think the 6mm ARC gains anything in that arena. I think it is the classic 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another sort of situation. I would add that you can get plenty of 6.5mm bullets heavier and lighter than 123gr. Scenar 138gr. bullets look interesting.
Your energy numbers aren't consistent with hornady. What ballistic calculator are you using? You aren't super far off but hornady has the 6mm ARC beating out the 6.5 grendel at 500 yards in terms of energy and trajectory. Using the 108 gr ELD for 6mm and 123 gr ELD for 6.5 grendel
Yeah, it seems like he may have been using numbers from different barrel lengths for the 6ARC vs. the Grendel... from what I've read 2580fps is what you'd expect from a 24" barrel for 123gr Grendel, whereas Hornady says that 108gr 6ARC should be doing about 2750 out of that length instead of 2700. Which seems right to me, since another youtuber apparently chrono'd 2730fps for the 108gr 6ARC out of his 22" bolt-action.
I hope HOWA produces the 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel in 'traditional' Short Action 1500's. I regret purchasing the HOWA Mini-Action 6.5 Grendel because of the magazine/feeding issues. I don't like being stuck with expensive proprietary 5 round magazines with no other choices either.
I don’t understand why you’d need 6mm 108gr when you can get a 6.5 123gr with a higher BC. Yes I know someone is going to reply velocity but I get the eld M 123gr to leave my 24 inch barrel at 2674 ft per second. So no at greater distances I don’t see how the arc can beat out grendel with both windage and for sure not energy. If you know how StrelokPro and decent scope with uncapped turrets work, will the little more flat trajectory of the arc have me trade off the the energy and BC of the grendel? I don’t think so. I have 16inch 6.5 creed that send the 147gr eld m at 2560 and still it out performs my Precision built .308 velocity ain’t all that
I now see that 6mm 108gr do sport and impressive.535 g1 I don’t know if that’s enough for me to get the 6arc since I have a very well shooting grendel which btw also outperform the .308 got to love those 6.5mm
Just like the Creedmoor, i'll watch this cartridge closely over the next couple of years to see if it takes to the market before i invest. It does have my interest though!
I’ve read that a few disclosed us military units have adopted it for use well before hornady released to the public...so if the military is using it then I have hope it will stick and we will see mass production of the round and AR platforms to accommodate it...I really want one now, but like you I am going to wait a hot minute to see how this goes.
I wonder if Eugene Stoner ever dreamed of all the things we can do with the ar 15. There is nothing else on earth even close to doing all this with two pins and a mag change.
He is definitely looking down on us and smiling! 😇
And sometimes a bolt carrier group and barrel!
Hornady must have sent this ammo to every gun channel in the world
Not yet! Where's mine?!
@@SocialRegressive lol. ALMOST every gun channel.
@@SocialRegressive Yea Im waiting on mine also lol
6ARC is the king so far
It's pretty awesome. If SIG would make a version of their Spear in this caliber it would be the perfect carbine replacement for the military.
I'm still saving up for glass for my 6,5 Grendel and you wave this fancy new caliber at me? I'm not gonna buy it! You can't make me! I'M NOT GONNA! Ok I probably will....
I love my 6.5g
There's a narrow enough difference between the two that if you have one, you're not going to miss the other so much. But for my own use, I'll give 6mm a whirl.
If you’re shooting legit long range the BC’s of that 6mm is substantially better than the shorter fatter 6.5mm bullets
I'm finishing up a custom 6.5 Creedmoor build and my nxt build was gonna be a 6mmAR/Grendel. All I need is a barrel, bcg and an optic for a 6 ARC that I was fixing to order then my cook stove starts leaking gas this morning. My fun money turned in to cook stove money
@@petersouthernboy6327 6mm cant compete with heavier 6.5mm bullets
This is a great cartridge. The 6 mm AR and all the other variants of it has been for some time now. Hornady tweaks it, renamed it and boom. This will be a successful round.
130 TMK fits in an AR 15 Grendel magazine so I wouldn't see a huge difference moving to the ARC. I'd go with whichever one has the cheaper components which right now is the grendel. Glad to see even more options for the AR-15.
Thanks for doing this video. When I first heard of 6mm ARC my instinctive response was, "but why?"
Because there are too dang many coyotes in my area. ☠☠☠
Some states limit you on caliber, so this would be a good choice for coyotes in NJ for instance.
"Why" ? That is capitalism they have to invent to keep selling to earn some money.
Best thing about the ARC... now maybe Magpul will start making magazines for the Grendel.. 😎
Your testing gel at range is a great idea.
I want to see what those 108gr eld-m do at 400 yds in gel. !
My next AR was gonna be a tossup between 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and even considered the .224 Valkyrie. I think i'm gonna go with this caliber.
I'm right there with you. I've never gotten very excited about the others. Not enough to buy in, anyway.
I have the 6.5 grendel and 6.8spc. Great calibers.my son took over the 6.8 and deer hunts with it.he has killed several deer with it.
@@SocialRegressive that doesn't make any sense.
Mr. DIY how to painting welding fabrication it makes a lot of sense to me. If you are a target shooter and want it in an Ar15 this cartridge makes a lot of sense. Unlike 22 nosler or 224 Valkyrie it has a proven track record of performance already in its sibling wildcat configurations (6mm AR, 243 lbc, 6 grendel, 6 rat, etc etc). I think it’s a perfect blend for the small frame AR. I think this cartridge will be a success for Hornady as well as for shooters.
@@halfdollar86 as long as it gets market support it'll do fine.
Anybody remember 6x45? I have been using for years on everything from coyotes to deer with great success.
I was aaaalmost tempted to build one.
I was seriously thinking about getting a 6mm AR barrel to replace my 6x45 just so I could reach 1000yds. Now I just need to wait until someone puts the 6mm ARC on sale (but I probably won't wait)!!!
This round will be a winner. I knew the 22 nosler, valkyrie, 6.8 wouldn't stick but this one will.
The 6.8spc is a hit with a lot of hog hunters !!
What about the fangdangle thing the 277 thingymabob, with the special cases lol
Hogs and deer always fall down within 150 yds to my 6.8SPC....is it for prairie dogs at 300 yds? No, but I never expected it to be
Paul Venn do you mean 277WLV? Is kinda cool. The problem (as I see it ) was the designed it to shoot supers and subs. Should have stuck with supers only to get max case length
I know the powder capacity would be reduced, but I think necking down (possibly shortening a bit) the 223 Rem case would make a good match for the 6mm. No bolt changes. No magazine changes (from standard 5.56). Just run NATO pressure and an 18" barrel.
Please, please do velocity tests with a short barrel like 12 inches for the 6mm ARC! I really want to see the velocities for it in the shorter package
Great video Kyle ...It seems a Lot like 6PPC if that's the case you will LOVE IT !! I owned 3 and all shot in the high 1s easily .
Seems like it's really darn similar, just tweaked for AR's complications. I have your latest in my Watch Later list. Can't wait to see your take on SFP vs FFP.
The Social Regressive I hope you like it
Thank you for throwing in the 300 blk for reference! 6ARC definitely looks very interesting! Looking forward to seeing your breakdown on the new cartridge!
glad to see some numbers, so If you're primarily a deer and hog hunter stick with the Grendel. If you reload and shoot smaller varmints or longer range paper go ARC. So much better than a 223 for the military use even with shorter 12" barrels the speed is not that much off.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t a swing from 55gr to 108 gr projectiles necessitate a twist rate change? The 5.56 barrels have moved from 1:12 to 1:7 as bullets increased in weight with a smaller deviation.
Can't wait! Been wanting to build a gas gun for long range plinking. Glad I waited
That's how I feel.
I learned about the importance of bullet construction two years back.
I was taking out prairie dogs and kept seeing impacts behind them. I was using a rifle that has never given me any issues and at ranges I shouldn't need to think. I was using 55 FMJ though. I tried holding left, right, low, high, and it felt like I was always missing high. I went back to my zero and took a shot on an especially fat one. A perfect shot with perfect recoil control. At about 150 yards, I saw the red hole appear and the tuft of fur puff away in a circle around it. He froze. Then he went back to eating. I was icepicking them the entire time. They all had little .224 holes in them. I tried a 55gr vmax and the next one EXPLODED.
I was working at a custom rifle shop in Goldsboro, NC 13 hours ago. The guy builds 6mmBR to 416 CheyTec. I asked him about 6mmBR vs 6mmARC. He's been building extreme rifles for 20+ years. He had heard of the ARC, but stated he had yet to see anyone use it in competition. I have a case of Hornady 6mmARC ELD, but no barrel has arrived yet to try it.
I want to see the ARC vs BR.
Good video. Have a great weekend!
Kenny at Eagle Eye Shooting has used 6mm ARC in competition, I think. You might check his channel.
Good info. Wish you could compare 6.8 spec to the 6mm arc.
I was glad to hear you finally mention the 6.5 prc. I bought one because I feel like it will be a great all around hunting gun and something I can do a few upgrades to and play around with long range.
As a deer hunter that uses grendel, I’m not exactly sure I want to go this route too. Not yet anyways.
i wouldn't. it seems like this is scaled down grendel. reduced bullet weight amd powder equally to maintain accuracy amd range so the only tradeoff seems to be energy on target for carried weight. this is a military cartridge for sure not a hunting one. built for full loadouts and more efficient then 5.56. in hunting your not carrying 200+ rounds and effect on target is more important than volume of fire. I'd stick with grendel in a game rifle and save the arc for a fighting set up.
I’ll still be running 5.56 for anything that isn’t hunting. Defensively, hunting wise and recreationally, 5.56 and 7.62x39 can tackle just about anything I’ve ever come across. That said, I don’t do long range stuff and even shooting 200 yards is a treat.
The real proof of concept for the ARC will be on the range and in the field. I'm going to be interested in barrel heat vs .223 and barrel longevity. I've put several thousands of rounds of .223 through my Rem 700 bolt gun and it's still shooting sub MOA. With a little bit of pacing, you can put a lot of .223 down range before the barrel gets hot enough to be a concern. Good stuff Kyle! Thanks!
I usually don’t get too hyped about new cartilages well maybe a little but not like this one lol. I love the Grendel and I been shooting them for a few years now. Actually just finished up a 12” Odin works build but have an 18” faxon and 16” Anderson. Funny cuz Ever since I’ve been shooting the Grendel I’ve loved it but always thought someone should neck it down to 6mm and have a wider range of bullets and more velocity with almost the same energy. I pretty much exclusively deer hunt with my Grendel now and it does awesome. Plan on swapping out that 16” Anderson 6.5 barrel for an 18” ballistic advantage 6mm arc
Solid analysis as usual, "yet another cartridge" : ) . i think technically a problem with early M16s was the lack of chrome lining, not a lack of cleaning
Good point. That certainly did help.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/06/m-16-a-bureaucratic-horror-story/545153/
jacksn hawker another Mc Namara wis- kid screw up. He took the chrome lining out and went to a ball,powder causing the gun to cycle to,fast. Ball powder got a bad name and so did the AR. This man was so smart he was plane stupid. Politicians should stay out of military matters. Who ever heard of a firearm that didn't need to be cleaned??? I lived through this era .
Chris from Small Arms Solutions has a video on this topic . He is the leading expert on M16 family .
Ermine Alox the choice to use ball powder was on the Army and not McNamara.
I have no doubt that this is better than 5.56 and I wish this would completely replace it but I'd like to see data on barrel lengths that most people use in their AR15's ranging from 11.5" to 18". No one shoots 24" barrels on an AR which is what all the current data is based on.
i already built a 6.5 grendel.. so i dont know if its worth it for me to move to the 6mm
The fun of the 5.56 is that it's still brilliant in its XM193 form. Why expand when you can tumble and yaw?
We in the highpower community have been using 6mm grendel variants for years. I've personally used the 6mm fat rat and the 6mm Turbo. This year however I'm just using a standard 6.5 grendel. I've found a combination of a 28" barrel, 107 smk, good strong bolt and a full length rifle buffer filled with tungsten I can push the 6.5 just as fast and don't have to form brass. Hopefully having a spec cartridge like the 6 arc, brass will be easy to find. Also I never had any trouble with the 40 degree shoulder of the 6mm Turbo 40 feeding from the magazine in an ar-15.
If you compare facttory ammo from Hornady, I mean 224V 88 eld vs 6 ARC 108 eld, ARC has tiny edge over Valkyrie. Im talking about drop and drift.
Hornady and the military showed the problem with going to a 308/6.5cm in an AR10 platform. It's a 30% increase in weight for the rifle and ammo. If you look at military rifles through out history you'll see a pattern. The number one requirement is RELIABILITY. Most military rifles and cartridges are a little more mild in recoil and velocity than the civilian model. The military needs long term reliability in serious adverse conditions. Most military rifles are loose bolts and chambers. That's not because of quality control. It's by design. It might hurt accuracy, but it means the rifle has a better chance of functioning when dirty. Look at an AK or an M14 or M1 garand. Not the match versions, the standard military issue versions.
The 6mm ARC compared to the 5.56 nato is a huge improvement. Nearly double the energy and range. About double the BC. The 6mm ARC has a recoil that's low enough for the shooter to spot their own long range shots. Not as easy with a 308, 6.5cm, and especially with the 300WM. A military main battle rifle doesn't have to be the best at anything. It needs to be a compromise and be pretty good at a lot of things. The military tested this cartridge with 14 to 24 inch barrels. The accuracy, velocity, and energy were acceptable for what the military needs a rifle to do. They're not hunting elk, they're hunting people. I hope this cartridge is accepted as the main battle rifle cartridge. 62gr 5.56 or 105gr 6mm? No contest.
Yep. I own three AR-10’s. And four pounds in a rifle not including the heavier Ammo which you carry less of DOES make a big difference.
I've been looking for an AR in .243 caliber, finally. I'm glad I didn't get the 224 Valkyrie. I had considered it, working off either the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC case.
6mm ARC with lighter bullets should have higher muzzle velocities than the 6.5 Grendel.
What nobody is talking about with these somewhat new and brand new cartridges is barrel life and cost of components. I know 6.5 Creedmoor is so hot right now but it has around half the barrel life of 308 Winchester. 6mm Arc will have around half or less than half of the barrel life of 223. So for competition shooting or prairie dog hunting, these older cartridges are cheaper to shoot and barrels will last much much longer. When you blow through 1-2000 rounds in a weekend prairie dog hunting, that's a lot of money in barrels...
I’m torn between the 6 mm arc and the 6.5 grendel. I don’t hunt anymore so it’s just for target
Curious to see how this catches on. I just got into 6.5mm Grendel, and the initial load developments look good. I'm a huge fan of 6mm Creedmoor, so if I can get decent performance out of the 6mm ARC in a smaller AR-15 frame size this might save me stocking multiple components. But who am I kidding...I'll probably add a 6mm ARC and a few others before I'm done. If I'm ever done... Thanks for the comparisons.
I want to see a percentage of velocity changes based on different barrel lengths comparison between 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel
You hit it! Those results are being intentionally emitted! All the RUclips testers have been given 24 and 26 inch pipes to test these guns. The hype is in full swing. Anyone with a 20 inch barrel version never publish's the chrono numbers.
Just ordered a 20" barrel. What sold me was the variance of bullet weights readily available locally for cheap.What powders are we looking at here?
Digging the dry data dump style. Keep pewing!
Built a 6mm-45 (6mm-223) It love 85gr. Sierra BTHP's. Moving out a 2750fps. I'm looking forward to built or buy 6mm ARC! To reach out to longer distances, My 6mm-223 hit hard on steel at 300yds. I have not pushed it out further than that yet. looks like the ticket for the job!!!!!!!
How does it compare to the 6.8 SPC? And could you make custom barrels and cartridges?
Very interesting video. For me, it confirms what I thought - it's really cool, but I have no use for it right now. My hunting is too short range with very few shots past 100 yards and the longest range target shooting I can do around here is 200 yards. I'll stick with supersonic .300 Blackout for my hunting/defensive AR and use the 5.56 for plinking. Then I already have different weapon platforms for big-bore thumpers and 1 flat shooter for long-range. Thanks for the info!
I'm curious what this can do in a 16" and 12" barrel.
12" grendels are popular lately, and while they aren't flat shooting from a short barrel, they apparently keep the terminal sweet spot really well despite the lower starting velocity.
How might the 6 arc compare? It'll be faster so maybe its trajectory will be respectable even with a short barrel, but how will it do terminally?
Will it be effective on 2 AND 4 legged pests like the grendel? Even in a pistol?
That's what I want to know. I'm really into AR pistols now, they're the new brushgun evolution of the truck gun. Being handy is AWESOME, but if you can get legs too? That's a win win.
Join the 6mm arc group on fb they show the info on short barrels
What about 6.8 spc, especially out of a 14.5” barrel for dual purpose, range and close quarters? Weird it was omitted from your list, but you had inferior 556, 300blk and 7.62x39.
The arc isnt the first grendel necked down to 6mm on the block or 6mm thats very similar. Theres already the dasher, the 6mm ar, the 6mm ar turbo, etc.
Great vid! I hope 6arc has better brass life than the valkyrie, I’ll wait a bit for some feedback from my fellow reloading nerds before I build one in AR. I’m thinking of the possibility of a sub 4 pound mountain rifle along the lines of a mini action Kimber mountain ascent. One can dream.
Are 6.8spc and .224 valkyrie basically dead?
Soon as I saw this cartridge announced I couldn't wait to see your video on it haha
The brass carnage and the barrel twist confusion really sank the 224 Valkyrie in the gas gun world. And it’s difficult to get it to group. The 6,8 suffers from low velocity and low BC when it comes to distance work
My 6.8 always delivers for the intended purpose (deer and hogs within 150yd). Is it an all-purpose one-gun? Of course not, but I never intended to own just one😉
For hunting a deer at ranges up to 300 yards. 6.8 SPC II hits harder and has a better bolt face size and doesn't suffer from the Grendel belted case When loaded hot. The problem with the SPC II is it takes a handloader to take advantage of its true attributes. best thing about the new ARC is the factory support. Too be fair, Harrison B. designed the 6mm predator first and Hornady made some inconsequential changes, renamed it and hear we are.
One thing that comes to mind with all of the new calibers in both the M4 varients and AR10s is the new ballistic testing on armor ratings. We are getting higher velocities now.
Great information. This was the most informative vid out there. With Johhny RB going AWOL, you'll now be my go to for reloading this round =)
Hopefully speer will bring back their .243 gold dot.
Heck yes! That would be my go-to handload.
If it takes off, the disadvantage in magazine capacity could conceivably go away (if the cartridge dimensions allow) when an enterprising company makes a 6ARC-specific 30 round magazine. Magpul did it with 300 Blackout.
Magpul only had to address feeding reliability with .300 blackout. Any 30 round 6.5 Grendel /6mm ARC magazine will by necessity have to be longer than a 5.56 30 round mag, which is already as long as can be practical, or too long depending on which shooter you ask.
I’m really glad you did this video 👍 finally someone who I actually believe what they say about ballistics of rounds. Most people I take what they say with a grain of salt. BTW I really really love my 6.5 grendel
Yeah i don't see why to change from a grendel. Especially if it has more energy inside 500 yds. I feel like there is no need to change for me. The only argument for me would be unless it kicks significantly less allowing cqb easier and quick shots up to 100 yds for fast multiple rounds on target.
It’s the DoD SOCOM spec for high BC’s at distance in the AR-15 form factor that is driving this. 6.5 can’t quite get the necessary velocity because the spec requires chamber pressures to not exceed 52,000 psi
What I like about the 6.8 SPC II is that a 16.5 inch barrel can throw a 95gr ttsx 2750 fps. the 6mm ARC is been given a High BC target bullet and 26 inch barrel to achieve hyped up numbers. What is the 6mm ARC doing with the same 16.5 inch barrel and 95 gr ttsx's? 2400 FPS?
I really appreciate all of your detailed and honest opinions, in your videos!
6vs 6.5 which is more a barrel burner and by how much more?
6.5mm barrels will last longer; we'll have to wait and see what owners report later. I'm not too worried about it, though. It ain't a .243 WSSM. 😬
6mm is kind of that perfect transition between the small side of big game and the big end of varmint. 22 cal is a bit too small for deer (JMO) and 6.5 doesn't quite have the light bullet selection available since Sierra discontinued the 85gr bullet in 6.5. You basically only have 90 TNTs or 95 VMAX left in 6.5mm. Neither are quite light enough to hit the speeds that a 55gr-60gr bullet in 6mm can. The 90 TNT can hit 3000 fps in the Speer data, but the 95 VMAX tops out around 2700 in the 18" barrel used in Hornady data. The 6ARC however can hit 3300 fps in the Hornady data with a 58 VMAX in the same 18" barrel.
That means that at 300y the 6 ARC has considerable advantages in flat shooting (1.3 moa less drop) and windage (6 moa less wind). But the 6 ARC has such a low BC at 58gr that it's already got a major energy disadvantage to teh 6.5G: only 584 lb-ft vs the 6.5G's 870 lb-ft at 300y.
The 6mm Hornady bullet closest to the 95VMAX in BC is the 87gr VMAX. And the 6 ARC gas gun data, it's topping out around 2700-2800 fps. Which is close to where the Grendel is with a 95gr VMAX. With similar speeds and BCs, these loads would have nearly identical windage and drops, with the heavier bullet having more energy.
Finally, the heavier end of Grendel bullets is the 130 ELD in the Hornady data, and it's only going 2350fps with a .277 G7. The heavy 6 ARC is the 105 bthp (gas gun data doesn't include 108 ELD) and it is going 2550 with a .253G7. The speed of the Grendel here gives it poorer long distance performance in terms of drop and sonic range, even though windage is identical.
The ARC is slightly more versatile owing to the lack of truly light 6.5mm bullets and can have longer sonic range. For my uses, I'll take the 6.5G for the heavier and higher SD bullet capability and commonality with my 6.5cm in bullet caliber.
Looking at the SAAMI drawing the case looks a lot like 6PPC with the shoulder bumped back a bit. Hornady even says 6ARC is based on 220 Russian just like PPC or the 6 grendal wildcat
I’m just not sure what this offers in a world where 6GT 6BR 6 dasher and a whole lot other good short 6mm cases already exist.
6XC for me, please.
The 6GT, 6BR, 6Dasher won’t feed in the AR-15 form factor - which is what the DoD SOCOM Contract was all about.
Now Hornady, with no apparent credit to Whitley’s 6mmAR, has announced a copycat cartridge, which it calls the 6mm ARC (Advanced Rifle Cartridge).
Except it’s a DoD SOCOM specification. Hornady simply did the engineering validation in order to get SAAMI certified. Which I appreciate because now there will be 20 barrel makers and not one little shop making barrels. The reason why 6mmAR and 6mmARTurbo remained a small niche was because of IP royalty issues - especially on the dies and the reamers. At least now I can get a full length sizing die in 6ARC for $60.
Thanks for this great rundown. I've been looking at these AR 15 calibers for several years now, as I have a custom AR 10 in .260. It's an amazing rifle and will shoot
Good info, but...Hint: Nice charts, except for some of us with color blindness. My wife says there are 7 data sets, I see 4. Maybe switch to a dark grey background and making the lines thicker?
Anyway, liked the rest of the vid.
Excellent coverage of the 6mm ARC and how it compares to other cartridges. Especially the .223. It also solidifies my decision NOT to get into the 300 black out. Great content.
The ARC and 300BO are not comparable in any way. If you need the speed of the ARC, 300BO shouldn't even be on the radar. My 10.5" suppressed SBR says the ARC can never do what it does best.... Run ultra quiet, subsonics, suppressed in a DI gun.
I'm kind of new to firearms and ammo ballistics. What is the minimum length barrel needed for 6mm to be most effective, and what happens when you go down below a 16-inch barrel? What about less than 12 inches, or even 9? How does it shoot suppressed and/or with subsonic ammo?
Nice informative intro to the 6 ARC. Looking forward your content. I may have to jump on this one.
I can't wait to try it. I have the rifle. No ammo.
Don’t forget about the 6GT. GAPrecisions kinda new cartridge. Kinda new because it’s been out for a little less than a year. Based off the 47 Lapua. Check it out.
6 GT won’t feed out of the AR-15 form factor, which is what the DoD SOCOM contract was all about
What worries me are the magazines and feeding issues. I’m not sure what Barrett used for the Rec7’s in 6ARC they provided for the DoD/SOCOM Contract. Barrett is very mindful about their SOCOM relationship. The Proof Research 18” Carbon barrel and Nightforce ATACR scope certainly got my attention 👀. The Geisselle trigger and Radian charging handle aren’t standard Rec7 DI parts either.
I’d like to see a 6mm ARC vs .22 Creedmoor comparison.
Will a 6.5G chamber in a 6mm arc? Hope not I see bad things happening like the 300blkout in 556 rifles.
That may be part of the reason why 6 ARC has a shorter distance to the shoulder. You can chamber a 6 ARC in a 6.5 Grendel gun, but not the other way 'round. Smart.
how does the PPU 110/gr..ammo in 6.5 grendel compare to the same bullet weight in the 6mm ARC...or even using the Lapua 108/gr. bullet in 6.5 grendel
Great data and characteristics for consideration! Excellent video, thank you!
There's a reason they're comparing 6mmARC to 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel remains the top dog. More energy and better BC, they're both niche cartridges, but the 6ARC might find a place.
The ARC has a slightly better specs than the 6.5 Grendel but to me not significant enough for me to justify getting the ARC when I already have a Grendel.
Don’t forget about GA Precision’s new’ish 6GT. Based off the 6.5x47 Lapua. Now, idk if it will function in an AR but it’s new’ish for the bolt PR guys. Cheers.
I'm gonna check that out. Thanks!
6GT don’t fit the AR-15 form factor. DoD SOCOM is driving the spec.
Hornady may have commercialized the 6mm ARC, but it has actually been around since at least 2005 in various forms i.e. the 6mmAR, 6mmAR turbo, 6mm fat rat, along with a couple others I can't think of right now. Hornady is just good at marketing I guess.
I get it, it has more energy, but my 224V hand loads using 80g eld at 2925fps (22" barrel) shooting 1/3 moa has a 1,000 yards numbers of 364.7 ft-lbs at 1432.8 fps and 7.8 mils of elevation. So, for hunting something big at long distance(although I'd use something else) or military use maybe, but to ring steel or varmint, I don't see any advantage. I'm not afraid of a new caliber, but must make sense for me to embark on the wagon.
DoD SOCOM is driving this spec. Hornady simply went through the engineering validation to get the SAAMI cert.
@@petersouthernboy6327 That's quite possible, but normally is the industry that "sells" an idea to DOD, which is well known to be stubborn, see how long it took to do anything to move from 308 to 6.5C.
@@cs_yt - yeah, I get that. To be fair, every NATO army and SWAT team still uses .308 for their common sniper rifles, there are thousands of commercial ammo choices out there with a gazillion rounds in storerooms, and to be honest the .308 is still perfectly good up to 800 yards or so and the barrel life is excellent. I own three AR-10's and I certainly wouldn't want to carry one of those or an M21 or M110 SASS with a full ammo loadout up and down the mountains of Afghanistan that's for sure - so I do get why DoD is trying to stretch the AR15 form factor out a few hundred more yards. I'm sure that it will take at least five more years for big Army to get it's new Next Gen Squad Rifle out (eye roll). The 5.56 just doesn't cut it past 400 meters - and especially if you're shooting up or down mountain grades with any sort of wind.
I like the energy of 6.5 Grendel... and I'm extremely skeptical of hornady stated velocity for ARC. More the merrier though.
So, bottom line; 6.5 Grendel has more energy further, with a tiny bit more drop and wind drift than 6mm ARC. With a good optic and the shooter doing his job correctly, 6.5 Grendel is a better choice for dropping the wack. 6.5 is cheaper, much cheaper... Hornady is $1.20 a shot for 6mm ARC if you can find it! Wolf is $0.29 a shot for 6.5 Grendel. No comparison at this point. And just as many .243 bullet choices as there are .264 choices for handloading. Seems to be a bit too hyped for what it is. I'm in the middle of a 6.5 Grendel build; why would I switch at this point? They don't even have the barrels and dies out yet according to Brownells. Want to wait 6 months (after hunting season is over) for a set of dies and a barrel, then 6mm ARC is the way to go!
300blk is a great pdw, short range round. Especially if you want the performance of a pistol caliber carbine in a AR with more punch when suppressed. But I haven’t use for such, so I stick with 5.56 for general use.
Looks like a great, versatile cartridge... but we already have a 6mm based on an improved 7.62x39/220 Russian case that is time proven and may be the most accurate cartridge ever conceived. It's call the 6mm PPC. But Hornady needs to have something "new" to push on the shooting public.
6x45 is overlooked and has been around for years it's just a sized up 223 brass so it's just a barrel swap that and 6 mm mongoose is another one that is a great
Absolutely first rate review, really enjoyed it 👍 Unfortunately we're not allowed anything in UK though 😠
As a bare-bottomed infant to the PRS space, I have learned an enormous amount from this and other Soc. Prog. videos. Thanks ! This one in particular makes me wonder, however, about the age old question... "Which came first, the cartridge or the gun?" .243 WIN has been around for decades. The 6 mm Creedmoor has been out for 10+ years. Is there something about one or both of these cartridges that make them ineffective? Just curious really.
Both of those cartridges are phenomenally effective, and .243 Winchester is still my favorite of all time. 6mm ARC is a lesser cartridge - though not by as large a margin as I expected - that fits an AR15. That's about it. The bigger cartridges will wipe the floor with 6 ARC.
6mm Grendel AKA 6mm AR done growed up!
Great video as usual buddy. I tell ya there seems to be a new flavor of the month every month ha ha. As you know i love 6mm cartridges especially the 243, this May be something to look at. Could you imagine a handload running a 108gr Berger VLD 😳
Howdy, Steve! I can't wait to see what folks will do 6 ARC.
@@SocialRegressive Yea It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I will say its gonna take something special for me to lay down the Grendel lol.
Hey man. Great video as always! For the grendel, what would you recommend ammo-wise for hunting out of a 12 inch barrel pistol for hog, deer, coyotes, and other animals?
Hello. I am a new subscriber and new to shooting and reloading. I was in the USMC 35 years ago, but haven't really shot much since then. I am a Mechanical Engineer and have a fair amount of technical training (BS, MS, PhD). I only say this to try to establish SOME credentials, since I am an obvious novice on these topics :) In any event, the question that comes to mind when carefully watching your video is why not just purchase a 6.5 Creedmor? It appears to be flatter shooting, fights the wind better, and retains more energy for more distance than the 6mm ARC, per your discussion. I just went to the CMMG website and it has the Endeavor 300 in both calibers. Am I missing something? It doesn't appear that the 6mm ARC is more interchangeable with standard 5.56 equipment (need a new barrel, bolt, and magazine). I am sure that I have just missed a key advantage, but I would appreciate any insight.
6.5 Creedmoor will destroy 6mm ARC in every way except size, weight and recoil. An AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor is a behemoth next to an AR-15 in 6mm ARC.
@@SocialRegressive Thank you for the response. I had not noticed the details in the CMMG description of the Endeavor 300 about weight and length. You are absolutely correct - the 6.5 Creedmoor Endeavor 300 is a bit more than 2 lbs heavier and 5" longer than the 6mm ARC Endeavor 300. I also was not aware of the naming convention where the smaller frame is referred to as an AR-15 while the larger frame is referred to as an AR-10. I am presuming this is a kind-of unofficial naming convention that experts use to distinguish size; maybe something like the 1911 (traditional, .45 ACP, 7-8 round magazine) versus the 2011 (double-stack, typically 9mm with 12-16 round magazine)?
I just did some web research. It appears to me that the designation of AR-15 vs AR-10 is kind of what I suggested above. It used to mean specific rounds and a specific design, but now it mostly seems to be 'smaller' (AR-15) or 'bigger' (AR-10), with each have multiple rounds that can be used. So, again, thank you for your fine work and I appreciate your patience with a new and sometimes ignorant shooter.
I've heard that the 6.5 Grendel round has feeding issues in an AR mag due to the long bullet and short case. I've also heard the 6mm ARC round has a different shoulder angle. Does this alleviate feed issues on the AR platform? How reliable is 6nm ARC in an AR?
We're about to find out. Like you mentioned, the shoulder angle is a little different, which should help. We may find some issues with shorter bullets.
Thanks for the vid. Particularly enjoyed the side by side ballistics data. 6mm ARC is very similar to .224 Valkyrie in ballistics, but newer and less popularity/support.
Yeah, the cartridge needs more support. I'm about to begin handloading 6mm ARC. Can't wait to see what it can do.
Wind drift of a 100 grain bullet at 1000 yards. This is the superior round at less than 600 yards. I wouldn't pick it for longer distances. For that you want a heavier bullet for less winddrift calculation or error. 6.5prc is my pick, which doesn't work in ar15 or even AR10 (I think).
Why switch to this if I already have a 6.5 grendel? That being said, Im glad you made the video Hornady should have made in the first place.
Higher BC’s and velocity at long distance. DoD SOCOM is driving this.
No reason really. Grendel has more energy at distance but a little tiny bit more drift and drop
Really Great Info on Your Channel. Only Question I have left is relative Accuracy of each cartridge?
That's a tough question. The burn consistency should be wonderful with any of these, and there are plenty of good bullets available. I think it's a question of ammo compatibility with each rifle that will determine accuracy.
Great videos! Thanks for the info
Have AR15 Performance's 6mm Preditor (6mm Grendel) and it's fantastic. Also testing the 22 Preditor ... Great concept for AR. I wish Hornady had not shortened the case ... Not sure why they did.
I think it was to accommodate silly-long bullets.
Yep, for high BC bullets >.500
So the round can run reliably in a AR 15.
I am going to use an AR in 6.5 Grendel in Gas Gun class for PRS since it is limited to 800 yards. I do not think the 6mm ARC gains anything in that arena. I think it is the classic 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another sort of situation. I would add that you can get plenty of 6.5mm bullets heavier and lighter than 123gr. Scenar 138gr. bullets look interesting.
Your energy numbers aren't consistent with hornady. What ballistic calculator are you using? You aren't super far off but hornady has the 6mm ARC beating out the 6.5 grendel at 500 yards in terms of energy and trajectory. Using the 108 gr ELD for 6mm and 123 gr ELD for 6.5 grendel
Yeah, it seems like he may have been using numbers from different barrel lengths for the 6ARC vs. the Grendel... from what I've read 2580fps is what you'd expect from a 24" barrel for 123gr Grendel, whereas Hornady says that 108gr 6ARC should be doing about 2750 out of that length instead of 2700. Which seems right to me, since another youtuber apparently chrono'd 2730fps for the 108gr 6ARC out of his 22" bolt-action.
Where would the 300 ham’r be on your ballistics chart
I work in maintenance, the saying don't fix what's not broken.... It kinda fits here. Great video although.
55gr, 58gr, or 65gr testing please.
This could be the ultimate Coyote killer!!
Hope they come out with howa mini action in 6mm arc
I hope HOWA produces the 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel in 'traditional' Short Action 1500's. I regret purchasing the HOWA Mini-Action 6.5 Grendel because of the magazine/feeding issues. I don't like being stuck with expensive proprietary 5 round magazines with no other choices either.
I don’t understand why you’d need 6mm 108gr when you can get a 6.5 123gr with a higher BC. Yes I know someone is going to reply velocity but I get the eld M 123gr to leave my 24 inch barrel at 2674 ft per second. So no at greater distances I don’t see how the arc can beat out grendel with both windage and for sure not energy. If you know how StrelokPro and decent scope with uncapped turrets work, will the little more flat trajectory of the arc have me trade off the the energy and BC of the grendel? I don’t think so. I have 16inch 6.5 creed that send the 147gr eld m at 2560 and still it out performs my Precision built .308 velocity ain’t all that
I now see that 6mm 108gr do sport and impressive.535 g1 I don’t know if that’s enough for me to get the 6arc since I have a very well shooting grendel which btw also outperform the .308 got to love those 6.5mm
I dont remember having to full length sizing grendel brass or having to crimp with sub Moa @ 500 meters! hmm
Just like the Creedmoor, i'll watch this cartridge closely over the next couple of years to see if it takes to the market before i invest. It does have my interest though!
I’ve read that a few disclosed us military units have adopted it for use well before hornady released to the public...so if the military is using it then I have hope it will stick and we will see mass production of the round and AR platforms to accommodate it...I really want one now, but like you I am going to wait a hot minute to see how this goes.
@@scottduffy5552 indeed