It is rare to find this level of accurate and consistent information packaged into a ~20 minute presentation for consumption. Thanks for another great vid.
I worked with one company on a roll to roll system of embossing nano structures onto plastic film inside a vacuum chamber with better than outer space clean vacuum chamber, yes initiaal cost of equipment might be a little on the high side but this process was done for solar cells 20 years ago supplement the argon gas into the vacuum chamber and you can make rolls up to a mile long.
Excellent coverage! I am thinking that Tesla is working all sides of this simultaneously. I don't think that prioritizing the scaling of the process has diminished their work on all the other parts you described. Tesla runs everything in parallel always.
Awesome vlog this is very positive movement over the coming years, thanks for the work that’s put in to your script so us lesser mortals can understand, 👍👏👏👏
Although the improvements could be used to extend range, for a Model 3, I expect that for most configurations, it would be used to reduce costs and fewer cells would be included.
Maybe a combination of activated charcoal and lithium metal which in an argon environment goes through a microwave pincer point in the cyclone exit point might heat the lithium specifically while being non-contact to the vessel wall. Heat would be rapidly extracted as part of the cyclone stream so would be very focused and brief. [a bit of a rant, I realise but may have some value to someone].
I feel smarter listening to these videos. Also helps understand how much hard work occurs behind the scenes, while sceptics holler for more models, and ignore how much has changed "under the hood".
cascading jetmills, the first one is the addition mill per addition and process, thus up to 5 jetmills per process may be used to get the desired homogenization and stabilization
Go to the top of the class Jordon - You have always led the field. This presentation will become a classic, despite the title. "LITHIUM DOPING" , too specific , "Elemental Metal & Carbon mixture for energy storage devices" "PERFECT' - Just look at the claims & 13:46
Learning chemistry isn’t the same as making it to the chemistry NBA equivalent though unfortunately- You don’t usually end up making good money with it :/
Thanks, this actually revealed the explanation I had been seeking about test results for LFP cells I have been buying. The different results are explained by the loss involved in the SEI layer formation.
Catching up on your videos after a hiatus. Great work as always Jordan! Glad to see Tesla releasing some exciting patents again. Looking forward to next gen battery processes!
This video made my brain ache! I knew of lead-acid car batteries but nothing about this new technology, so quite an eye-opener for me. Much appreicated and thanks!
Very interesting and informative. Thanks for breaking down a complex subject so that "regular" people can understand it. Is the "Maxwell" company that Tesla acquired the same one that used to make batteries few decades ago? Are the key scientists at Maxwell still working in Canada or they relocated to Austin?
I love 💕 your work. Can you study how megapacks can help to improve power supply in Africa?..... Tesla talked about curtailment (excess renewable energy)....can power curtailment be exported to SSA repower grid market?
I want the hat, but I don't want it in black nor the logo just in white. How about it ? Thanks so much for all your hard work to learn , digest, analyze, and distill all this complicated technology for us. Enjoyed your Monro live interview. Be well.
Great Video, thank you! In my opinion the cost saving because of Li Dopping Process might not only be considered on the graphite electrode. Cathode is the source of lithium in the cell and thus keeping the same cell capacity and using LDP process would produce cell with less cathode materials ;-)
Thanks, Just when you think that doping can’t get better. Where will this end. Eventually there will be a local maximum and no more progress can be made. So never say never. Some will build a better method
How do u think Teslas DBE will compare to Amprius’s new battery that they claim will electrify flight? Although Tesla is focusing on cost reduction (not energy density), notably increasing energy density decreases cost/energy (presuming all other costs are unchanged).
@@thelimitingfactor Amprius won’t be $1,000/kg for very long, and then they will appeal to the car market. Amprius has cracked the silicon nanowire code and Tesla hasn’t. Neither Amprius nor Tesla are ramped up to full scale production. Once they are, considering their respective technologies, Amprius will have the advantage. The only question is when.
@@thelimitingfactor Nobody has a crystal ball. It’s one thing to buy Maxwell and produce a prototype. Mass production is at least 2 orders of magnitude more difficult (according to Musk). We all want the DBE to succeed, but as you say, wishing doesn’t make it so.
With silicon doped anodes, the SEI will crack and thicken with each cycle, correct? So is it possible to "overload" the anode with extra lithium, more than enough to account for just the initial lithium loses to the SEI on the first cycle, enough lithium so that as the SEI thickens over time, the extra lithium that was doped into the anode continues to make up for the incremental losses to SEI over time?
I'm not sure to what extent you're talking here. There's a point of diminishing returns. But yes, the point of the lithium doping is to counteract the losses of lithium to things like a thickening SEI
Amazing to see the path to higher energy density. I hope the 500 wh/Kg can be achieved soon so Elon can finally build the supersonic VTOL aircraft he wants to. I would really like to see it. Anyways, 300 wh/Kg would still be quite awesome for the Tesla Semi and for the Cybertruck as that means longer range versions of them could exist.
@@thelimitingfactor is there no risk to Tesla?. Like another company using a patent and further develop from there and make your own patent, and suddenly Tesla can’t do something because another company holds the patent?
Keep in mind that this is all "ancient" stuff for Tesla. The patent application has been filed in Aug 2022, which means they likely worked on the paperwork with patent attorneys for a couple of weeks and must have had a "solution" already in the first half of 2022. And that is only on the "New" patent - the previous ones are from 2019 and earlier.
DBE itself is a far older technology and Tesla still hasn't mastered it. That is, the age of the patent isn't relevant. What's relevant is whether it gives us an indication of where they're headed with the technology, and the patent does
It's always true, it's what they don't tell you that kneecaps the hundreds of 'wonder batteries' out there. I can't look into all of them. The best approach is just wait to see which ones hit scale and scale fastest.
2m Km duration is really rather meaningless. How many charge and discharge cycles? How deep can you discharge and how fast can you recharge? Those tell a lot more.
Higher energy densities will be critical for Tesla's new breakthru product: Tesla Horse (Code name: PolyAnna). When combined with Tesla Carriage, it will re-de-revolutionize transport with zero horse poop emissions. "Two legs bad, four legs good."
Hi jordan: How many years do you think it will be till the 4680 is competitive and maxed to scale? meaning extremely high build rate and high energy density / high price competetiveness step change by magintute? If possible at all.
I think this channel is too focused on Tesla specific battery development. Clearly other companies like CATL are continually improving their processes and what's most relevant is how Tesla is doing relative to entire industry. Individual patents are cool but that give no insight if this put ahead or behind competition.
I'm just covering Tesla and for every video I do there are 3 waiting. That is, I can't keep up with just Tesla. You want me to cover CATL, etc at the same time... Not gonna happen. All the fanboys of other companies need to step up. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one doing what I'm doing. I encourage others to, but no one does.
There's patents to stop other people from using your IP, and there's patents to that you can explore the IP space to check if you can use the IP. I don't 'believe' in patents either for the former, but absolutely necessary for the latter. Don't read too much into an off the cuff comment.
@@benjaminjwilson6694 Yes. Elon has said it over and over. They can't do it alone. They want others making BEV's. The goal was to speed the transition, to drag everyone into the game if they wanted to or not.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
It is rare to find this level of accurate and consistent information packaged into a ~20 minute presentation for consumption.
Thanks for another great vid.
🤜🤛🤠
I worked with one company on a roll to roll system of embossing nano structures onto plastic film inside a vacuum chamber with better than outer space clean vacuum chamber, yes initiaal cost of equipment might be a little on the high side but this process was done for solar cells 20 years ago supplement the argon gas into the vacuum chamber and you can make rolls up to a mile long.
Excellent coverage! I am thinking that Tesla is working all sides of this simultaneously. I don't think that prioritizing the scaling of the process has diminished their work on all the other parts you described. Tesla runs everything in parallel always.
Very happy to believe you are correct Count on Tesla to hit every aspect of battery production as well as application.
Engineer: Do we prioritize this, this, or this?
Musk: Yes.
Nice to see they are always looking far ahead! Thanks Jordan
Thanks so much. You make me feel like I can understand batteries. The more I watch your videos the more it starts to make some sense.
You're most welcome!
Interestingly (or not) it was Tesla’s acquisition of Maxwell in 2019 that initiated my first move into acquiring $TSLA.
Another beauty!! Thx for all you do!
🤜🤛🤠
Best and most informative channel on EV tech on RUclips! ❤ 👍🏻 and subscribe. Let’s go Jordan!
😊
Awesome vlog this is very positive movement over the coming years, thanks for the work that’s put in to your script so us lesser mortals can understand, 👍👏👏👏
Although the improvements could be used to extend range, for a Model 3, I expect that for most configurations, it would be used to reduce costs and fewer cells would be included.
Correct.
More cars, faster charging.
Yeah, lighter and cheaper with the same range.
@@filonin2 Agreed. The range is good enough for 99% of people. What's going to sell the cars is a cheaper price.
This video totally gave me pre Battery Day vibes!
Tesla's forward thinking keeps them on the edge of new materials, processes and methods to improve battery technology. Never stop innovating Tesla!!
Thank you! Another fantastic battery video.
🤜🤛🤠
Maybe a combination of activated charcoal and lithium metal which in an argon environment goes through a microwave pincer point in the cyclone exit point might heat the lithium specifically while being non-contact to the vessel wall. Heat would be rapidly extracted as part of the cyclone stream so would be very focused and brief. [a bit of a rant, I realise but may have some value to someone].
Clever!
love it keep up the great work i am a tesla model x owner and fully committed to all Eletric revolution!🤠
🔥
I feel smarter listening to these videos. Also helps understand how much hard work occurs behind the scenes, while sceptics holler for more models, and ignore how much has changed "under the hood".
Go Jordan, thanks for this update..
cascading jetmills, the first one is the addition mill per addition and process, thus up to 5 jetmills per process may be used to get the desired homogenization and stabilization
Happy to support your diligent work and AWESOME videos!
🔥🤜🤛🤠
Indepth as always on this broadcast. Thank You
Very clear and understandable presentation. Thanks
Beast mode video!!!! Keep it up
🙏
Go to the top of the class Jordon - You have always led the field. This presentation will become a classic, despite the title.
"LITHIUM DOPING" , too specific , "Elemental Metal & Carbon mixture for energy storage devices" "PERFECT' - Just look at the claims & 13:46
Thank you Gordon, really appreciate your giving us some detail into the processes.
Always a treat to see a new video from you Jordon! Thanks for this!
If I could time travel, I'd tell my younger self to really study chemistry...
I'd buy Apple at 2 and a half.
Learning chemistry isn’t the same as making it to the chemistry NBA equivalent though unfortunately- You don’t usually end up making good money with it :/
I think I'd just give my younger self a time machine 🥸
Thanks, this actually revealed the explanation I had been seeking about test results for LFP cells I have been buying. The different results are explained by the loss involved in the SEI layer formation.
Thanks Jordan!
Another great video, thanks.
Well...time to go get the notebook. I'll be here pretending I understand.
😂 It's okay, I am too
Catching up on your videos after a hiatus. Great work as always Jordan! Glad to see Tesla releasing some exciting patents again. Looking forward to next gen battery processes!
🤜🤛🤠👋
This is great! Hope it comes to production process soon
This video made my brain ache! I knew of lead-acid car batteries but nothing about this new technology, so quite an eye-opener for me. Much appreicated and thanks!
😁🔥
Thanks for all the work!
🙋♂️THANKS JORDAN, FOR WALKING US THROUGH THIS 🤗💚💚💚
Sure thing buddy 😎
Porter Mitchell is so nice in person. Great guy
Love your videos! I know you are working your butt off and can’t make them any quicker but man I always want more! Keep up the great work!
Very interesting and informative. Thanks for breaking down a complex subject so that "regular" people can understand it.
Is the "Maxwell" company that Tesla acquired the same one that used to make batteries few decades ago? Are the key scientists at Maxwell still working in Canada or they relocated to Austin?
Absolutely terrific information. This is like free university. Can you share a link to the patent?
Great video, well explained!
At 2:53
73 is "interesting"
"Further comprising forming a Solid Electrolyte"..... ?
AKA..... ?
I love 💕 your work.
Can you study how megapacks can help to improve power supply in Africa?.....
Tesla talked about curtailment (excess renewable energy)....can power curtailment be exported to SSA repower grid market?
You don't ask for much do you?
I want the hat, but I don't want it in black nor the logo just in white. How about it ? Thanks so much for all your hard work to learn , digest, analyze, and distill all this complicated technology for us. Enjoyed your Monro live interview. Be well.
This took me three run throughs to digest. I think I got some of it.
😁
Classic Tesla expanding every corner of the efficiency polygon with no drawbacks somehow
Amen. Maximise benefits, minimize drawbacks.
V nice. Love the progress.
Great Video, thank you! In my opinion the cost saving because of Li Dopping Process might not only be considered on the graphite electrode. Cathode is the source of lithium in the cell and thus keeping the same cell capacity and using LDP process would produce cell with less cathode materials ;-)
Thank you!
You're welcome as always Robert 😀
The jetmill most likely has a tungsten carbide lining to prevent contamination.
Thanks, Just when you think that doping can’t get better. Where will this end. Eventually there will be a local maximum and no more progress can be made. So never say never. Some will build a better method
How do u think Teslas DBE will compare to Amprius’s new battery that they claim will electrify flight? Although Tesla is focusing on cost reduction (not energy density), notably increasing energy density decreases cost/energy (presuming all other costs are unchanged).
Different category, different use cases. Amprius is $1000/kwh
@@thelimitingfactor Amprius won’t be $1,000/kg for very long, and then they will appeal to the car market. Amprius has cracked the silicon nanowire code and Tesla hasn’t. Neither Amprius nor Tesla are ramped up to full scale production. Once they are, considering their respective technologies, Amprius will have the advantage. The only question is when.
You can wish that, but it doesn't make it so. Vapor deposition is much slower than dry coating, by orders of magnitude.
@@thelimitingfactor Nobody has a crystal ball. It’s one thing to buy Maxwell and produce a prototype. Mass production is at least 2 orders of magnitude more difficult (according to Musk). We all want the DBE to succeed, but as you say, wishing doesn’t make it so.
Awesome video. Very cool!
I am such a geek. 😏
With silicon doped anodes, the SEI will crack and thicken with each cycle, correct? So is it possible to "overload" the anode with extra lithium, more than enough to account for just the initial lithium loses to the SEI on the first cycle, enough lithium so that as the SEI thickens over time, the extra lithium that was doped into the anode continues to make up for the incremental losses to SEI over time?
I'm not sure to what extent you're talking here. There's a point of diminishing returns.
But yes, the point of the lithium doping is to counteract the losses of lithium to things like a thickening SEI
As I see it the added lithium is in lithium compound form not free lithium
Amazing to see the path to higher energy density. I hope the 500 wh/Kg can be achieved soon so Elon can finally build the supersonic VTOL aircraft he wants to. I would really like to see it. Anyways, 300 wh/Kg would still be quite awesome for the Tesla Semi and for the Cybertruck as that means longer range versions of them could exist.
Wow 😮 Tesla is making my efforts in high throughput lithium vacuum deposition redundant 😅
It works as water based tea and or plant based non dairy milk added in
😂
@@thelimitingfactor this comment was supposed to be for a Turmeric milk video ha ha. Love your stuff to though.
Jordan uploaded guys stop what your doing and come watch 🏃♂️ 🏃♀️
So what in short?
Is this patent then also again open for anyone to use or does Tesla keep this to itself?
Open. Look it up on their website. People are free to use their patents.
@@thelimitingfactor is there no risk to Tesla?. Like another company using a patent and further develop from there and make your own patent, and suddenly Tesla can’t do something because another company holds the patent?
Keep in mind that this is all "ancient" stuff for Tesla. The patent application has been filed in Aug 2022, which means they likely worked on the paperwork with patent attorneys for a couple of weeks and must have had a "solution" already in the first half of 2022. And that is only on the "New" patent - the previous ones are from 2019 and earlier.
DBE itself is a far older technology and Tesla still hasn't mastered it.
That is, the age of the patent isn't relevant.
What's relevant is whether it gives us an indication of where they're headed with the technology, and the patent does
Considering my first name, I might have to check out that paper…
👍
Jordan please look into the LMFP that Gotion is promising. 2 million km duration battery cells. Game changer if true.
It's always true, it's what they don't tell you that kneecaps the hundreds of 'wonder batteries' out there.
I can't look into all of them. The best approach is just wait to see which ones hit scale and scale fastest.
But who needs 2m km? That is not the most important factor for batteries once a useful life is achieved
@@rikvdk8962 Battery storage, and smaller battery with higher voltage cells with higher degradation.
2m Km duration is really rather meaningless. How many charge and discharge cycles? How deep can you discharge and how fast can you recharge? Those tell a lot more.
@@thelimitingfactor Very true! Lab to mass production is a long road. Appreciate your amazing work J
Higher energy densities will be critical for Tesla's new breakthru product: Tesla Horse (Code name: PolyAnna). When combined with Tesla Carriage, it will re-de-revolutionize transport with zero horse poop emissions. "Two legs bad, four legs good."
🤣🤣🤣
Wow, if they can get to 300Wh per KG that will have huge implications for the Model 2 production
It would be cool for a little Model 2 hot rod, but I suspect that LFP wil be the name of the game... materials availability and cost.
❤
Optimus robot could help them to have a battery production area void of oxygen.
basically same process as powder coating
If Jordan was a character in Avatar the Last Airbender, he'd be the professor that remained behind in the library
LOL
tsla to the moon
Hi jordan: How many years do you think it will be till the 4680 is competitive and maxed to scale? meaning extremely high build rate and high energy density / high price competetiveness step change by magintute? If possible at all.
I think this channel is too focused on Tesla specific battery development. Clearly other companies like CATL are continually improving their processes and what's most relevant is how Tesla is doing relative to entire industry. Individual patents are cool but that give no insight if this put ahead or behind competition.
I'm just covering Tesla and for every video I do there are 3 waiting. That is, I can't keep up with just Tesla. You want me to cover CATL, etc at the same time...
Not gonna happen. All the fanboys of other companies need to step up.
As far as I can tell, I'm the only one doing what I'm doing. I encourage others to, but no one does.
They should just release the 4680 batteries Asap.
Not sure what you mean, they're already in some model y's
Looking forward to a video on Musk repeatedly saying Tesla doesn't believe in patents. Maybe we where all dreaming that particular event.
Believing in them is one thing, the legal reasons for having them are also important. Not that I recall him saying that.
There's patents to stop other people from using your IP, and there's patents to that you can explore the IP space to check if you can use the IP.
I don't 'believe' in patents either for the former, but absolutely necessary for the latter.
Don't read too much into an off the cuff comment.
Or you apply for 78 so that companies waste their time on the other 77. What's 39 th on the list.
I thought Tesla kept everything open source.
Not sure what you mean here. Publishing the patent open sources it - Tesla said anyone can use their patents.
They are just securing their future. It would be bad if someone else would patent their technology.
@@thelimitingfactor I'm confused... Why spend money on patents if anyone is allowed to use them?
It's a defensive patent.
Raymond gets it.
Awesome, now China can take this information and make new evs with amazing batteries.
Yup, and that's part of what Tesla wants.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom Tesla wants compition?!?! BYD is already destroying the non-Tesla EV market in China.
@@benjaminjwilson6694 Yes. Elon has said it over and over. They can't do it alone. They want others making BEV's. The goal was to speed the transition, to drag everyone into the game if they wanted to or not.
smoke and mirrors
What is?