Why did China's Long March 5B Reenter Uncontrollably?
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
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Welcome to another episode of the Dongfang Hour! In this episode, we do a deep dive into the uncontrolled reentry of the Long March 5B, which caused a lot of discussion, frustration, and sometimes conflicting accounts. Let's have a cool-headed analysis and discuss some of the physics!
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To amateur it might be uncontrolled. To experts this is a great success.
China's uncontrolled reentry rocket plunged into the sea but US controlled reentry rocket landed on Australia
It's uncontrolled entry. It also happened last year in Washington state USA and two Indonesian islands in 2016.
@Ch1ll Do you always take sarcasm so seriously like this?
The first one was because it was Chinese. So it had to be said ''Chinese rocket fell out of the sky uncontrollably. Practically on the same day, "Space junk found in Australia suspected to be from SpaceX.'' Notice how it wasn't reported as SpaceX junk fell uncontrollably on an Australian farm in NSW and it could be fatal.
or "Dangerous American rocket debris falls uncontrollably in Sydney"
When it is done by a private company of America, it is ordained to be kosher, and therefore not deemed evil if it were to fall and kill someone. But if it is even remotely related to anything China or Chinese, then it must be condemned duly, according to the tradition of "Yellow Peril" since eons ago.
Take your tribalism goggles off. The Longmarch stage is in excess of 20 tons and completely unpredictable. The SpaceX piece was only a small part of a less than 2 ton piece (trunk) of a capsule (Dragon) which deorbits via active maneuver.
@@Yutani_Crayven Their goggles are all they have in their sad lives
4:38 really shows how hypocratic the thing has been. They have done much more and we are the worst.😂 No need to bring up SpaceX coz SpaceX fails to compete with those governments.
Really clear and concise coverage of the issue. There was a recent report of parts of a jettisoned trunk from a SpaceX Dragon landing in a field in Australia, so it is a general problem.
Imagine if it had been from a Chinese rocket. Then there would be screams for blood.
@@keffinsg agreed. western media just waiting for any news fr China to twist will not let go
@ keff
You are so damn right! Western double standard and hypocrisy and hegemony everywhere all the time!
This is a very objective presentation. I do agree China should do more to mitigate the risk of the uncontrolled reentry of the rockets. The media attentions generated are very obviously the gleeful and jealous venting from China haters. Any other country does the same would probably just invite a few muted complaints, but no MSM would even bother to report. This proves China is now being held at higher standard because their success. So China really should do better and set a good example for the rest of the world to the level that is beyond reproach. What used to be "good enough" for everyone is no longer good enough for China.
說得好。
you are absolutely correct. As with everything else, one set of (higher) standards for China/Russia, another set (lower) for the West or the rest of the world.
Better still, the Chinese should weaponized it. Give it a bigger fireworks.
@@theinfralink6598 It's called double standards.
@@andrewwong2605 Jokes aside, it is the double standard that is embarrassing. Every time there are uncontrolled big debris falling by other countries it would be painted as "firework-watching" by the media and the people would look forward to see the "spectacular sky show". For those in the land areas may be hit they would be excitingly waiting to collect the debris for souvenir. If these people bother to look themselves in the mirror...
D only reason China is being singled out, is for d collective west, to score political point. Kudos to Dongfeng for its UNBIASED reporting, FACTS N ONLY D FACTS. 👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️❤️
all this fuss about chinese rocket reentry seems overblown to me. Especially after the fact that a few days after it a spacex's rocket debris smashed in Australia and almost wiped out ozie farmer.
You know what the West is like. Very jealous.
Although space junk will be a problem in the near future, all this media hype is due to the fact that we're all in another Cold War. Personally I don't listen to any MSM outlets so it's all irrelevant to me.
China achievement in space technology is amazing, there are so many JEALOUS people out there especially the US and the gang Lol 😂
Where was all the American commotion when the humongous Skylab uncontrolled reentry scattered debris across Western Canada?
China drops rocket parts on its own people dude. WTF are you on about?
Silly Monkey, don't you know? America can do no wrong.
*Australia
Well nothing surprising as we have been the bad guy for a long time according to those western medias. Just chill and let them be.
Dude your government drops rockets with toxic fumes on its own people the last one hit someone's house. wtf is wrong with you?
@@badtrekee4348
Source?
@@badtrekee4348 make up story yeah
@@andrewchew29 China has its AirPort right in the middle of a City LMFAOO WTF are you talking about? Planes fly mere feet from the building tops. Tell me thats made up also? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Next thing you'll tel me that Chinese people aint filthy by nature. Yeah i know. Next you'll tell me a Troll. Thats what they call people being honest today.
Good video but I find it crazy how when space x does it, it never gets as much media traction
The SpaceX piece got disproportionate negative media attention itself.
Take your tribalism goggles off. The Longmarch stage is in excess of 20 tons and completely unpredictable. The SpaceX piece was only a small part of a less than 2 ton piece (trunk) of a capsule (Dragon) which deorbits via active maneuver.
@@Yutani_Crayven0.5 cents has been added to your account
@@Yutani_Crayven 20 tons vs 2 tons is irrelevant when it lands on top of someone. The result is still the same.
When rocket debris of western rocket fallen is never or less been reported.
It's called Double Standards; part of the Cold War game.
I think it come down to the classic question again: Is it more fair to hold everyone to the same standard, or to give the new contestants the same level of tolerance that the leading ones have enjoyed in their past?
Weather problem, war problem, genocide... those who have done much worse in the history are those controlling the narrative globally, there is no such thing as "the same standard".
Don't expect fair play from the former colonists
@@xvbd6067 Though true, what you said is irrelevant to my comment. It's about not expectations but in which way we should perceive and react to events and arguments.
@Ch1ll by your argument, are you then saying developing countries like India and China shouldn't be allowed to use Coal?
@@type-ke7921 I disagree, I think it is relevant. If the other side is not willing to play fair than I think we shouldn't either. We must take as much advantage in order to survive.
Excellent explanation, thank you. I had thought there was some "legal" requirement for the re-entry of a vehicle with mass greater than 10t to be controlled, but apparently not the case. Always important to get the facts straight.
This is very clear, informative and objective explanation. This kind of reporting will benefits the world not reporting that are biased, fake and fabricated news. Western uncontrolable entry vehicles should be reported as intense as the Chinese ones. It's good that new standard should be established and be followed by everyone.
I guess the Americans don't do this . . . never ever!
I m interested in news when there is objective studies put into the risks of launching 10000 satellites into space with AI manoeuvrability that can caused harm to human space faring activities. It happened twice recently and the Chinese space station had to move away for safety. How come no one wants to study this? And promote that as a bad practice 😊
remember spacex falling in australia...and no cries
Also in Washington state USA last year and in two Indonesian islands in 2016.
@@archie8388 amazing country, great achievements, but such garbage *menthality*
@@AlexxAMV debris of SpaceX Falcon 9's second stage rocket landed in Washington state USA April last year and in two Indonesian islands in 2016 were facts reported by the media. They are not my "mentality".
@@archie8388 no..i heard .my comment on menthality is dumbass US
Wait till the ISS grand reentry...
Thanks for sharing facts regarding this 'popular' topic :)
Definitely a ‘popular’ topic 😄 I’m hoping the comments don’t get too carried away…
I miss the intro, the song is a banger.
I miss it too.
It's not an iron ball or meteorite, heavier is harder to destroy，apparently most hard to burn out is engine part which is heatproof，SpaceX drop more than 40 upper stage engines one year, while LM5B is 2 or 4，it' s not fair to attact on it because it is Chinese rocket.
Space X reentry, Western media:
SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket causes a spectacle in the sky!
SpaceX rocket debris creates a fantastic light show in the Pacific Northwest sky!
Long March reentry, Western media:
Сhina bad!
The SpaceX piece got disproportionate negative media attention itself.
Take your tribalism goggles off. The Longmarch stage is in excess of 20 tons and completely unpredictable. The SpaceX piece was only a small part of a less than 2 ton piece (trunk) of a capsule (Dragon) which deorbits via active maneuver.
@@Yutani_Crayven Haha, is this the villain's first complaint? If the booster left by China is also two tons, will you say that "the booster of the long march itself has received disproportionate negative attention from the media"? Before admonishing others, you'd better check whether you wear the 'goggles' you said.
@@Yutani_Crayven The debris of SpaceX's booster fell into the residents' Ranch: it's OK, there is no loss of personnel, please don't pay attention to this matter.
CNSA's booster falls into the ocean: CCP is threatening the safety of people in the whole region, and they must be condemned / sanctioned / even destroyed
I wonder if you know the s**t of racism, or if you acquiesce that the Chinese are not human and have no problem with Chinese racism?
@UC-Af5O1yWhKmtNBhKp-4MaQ 嗯嗯嗯，是我虚空打靶了呢，20吨掉海里的威胁可比2吨砸人后院威胁大一万倍呢，ISS这么多年来没一个西方媒体出来指责美欧俄日助推器的不可控再入，现在塞力斯空间站还没搭完一群贵物媒体跟苍蝇一样闻着味就来了，这么理客中地指责我虚空打靶我属实难绷
@@russelfang7434 If you want to criticize the double standard of Western media, please first understand that the double standard means “double standard in same situation”. The 20-ton first stage and the 2-ton debris are originally different situations. The difference in the criticism of the two reports does not constitute a double standard. There is nothing wrong with different reports on different situations . And I'm so sorry, the Western media do have never criticized the 2-ton class second or third stage of other Long March models，别搁着虚空打靶了
it is focused so much simply because it is from china.
Cold War mentality.
Compared to these reentry debries, I think people around the world should pay more attention to worry about the SpaceX Starklink satelites, there are too many of them, they are occpying orbits.
The orbit resource is limited, and first come first serve. SpaceX has set a very bad example by occupying orbit resource with cheap trash satelites and endangering other expensive space assets those are already in orbits such as Chinese Space Station. Just in 2021 one year period, SpaceX satelites passed by Chinese Space Station by very dangerous distance for 3 times.
Once the orbit resource is almost in exhaustion, SpaceX won't bother us Chinese, but it will annihilate the possibility for other countries like India to develop their own space technology.
SpaceX is the villain there.
space x just landed some reenter part on Australia farm under control.lol
Haha, the fact is space X drop the remains of the rocket in Australia. Why always pointed to China??
Thank you so much for explaining.
SpaceX did the same
Good non-sensational summary. The US and USSR/Russia had their share of uncontrolled re-entries.
Very informative & Objective. Thank you!
Congratulations to China on successful launch of Wentian Science Lab Module to China's futuristic space station.
Wishing China further success in its SPACE EXPLORATION PROGRAMME which is second to none in the world. 🇦🇫💓🇨🇳
I watched a video that showed the opening of a Chinese-built university compound in Afghanistan.
It's very modern.
another great video. very informative! thank you.
Agree with your view, the concern is real. However the hypocrisy and self righteous attitude specially in western media circles is more concerning.
Thanks for giving us the clear explanation of the re-entry of the "discarded parts" of the satellite's rockets after launch. 👏👏
Great stuff.thanks
Very informative.
Simple reason why so many countries condemn this....racism...and geopolitics.
Thanks for the video
Chinese really should create news standard since following the rule set by previous western clearly not enough by their double standard report.
It more sickening when SpaceX debris or India own debris been blame as Chinese in news.
Thanks!
Thanks for your support @dhg1234! 🙏
Well-said！ Well-explained！
October 31 2022. In an hour it will be another Long March 5B launch.
In July it took six days before reentry.
Is that what we can expect this time as well?
Reentry on November 6th (pluss/minus) ??
Thanks for your channel and your style 🙏😊
Nice video! I don't suppose you have any plans to do a breakdown of China's various recoverable rocket projects?
CZ-8R is not yet proven, and let Long Lehao has already suggested it (and CZ-6) will be replaced with new variants of the CZ-7! He also claimed CZ-5DY, CZ-5RLZ and the 'Block 2' 2021/22 redesign of CZ-9 will be recoverable, yet I saw nothing on exactly how nor updated payload capacities considering the requirement for reusability. It's all a bit baffling.
yay another video :D
😁
Rather than improving the design (e.g. redesigning the first stage). The Long March 5B, which may only be used two more times, doesn't seem worth the extra work. The information on the re-entry of the wreckage has been provided, and make betting that the wreckage will re-enter the uninhabited area. Even if damage occurs, it only needs to be paid in accordance with the international treaty.
The Long March 5 is more like an excessive model of China's large rockets at this stage, or the most powerful rocket they can design at this moment, just enough for the construction of the space station. More powerful rockets are also being designed for moon landing programs, or it can replace the Long March 5 in the future.
Excellent video.
great explanation
Another reason for LM-5B’s strange one stage design is because if they use a second upper stage and shorten the first stage, the first stage has a great chance to hit Australia (when doing 42 degree LEO missions). If you take a look at Wenchang’s location and the pathway of LEO launchings, you will find out the landing zone of Wenchang is not that good.And also LM-5B’s launching capability doesn’t allow another set system of deorbiting when launching over 22 tons CSS modules.
Great video
Hi, Dude. Why not make a new film to comment the SLS rocket of the US? People are willing to know how their controllable huge rocket debris which even larger than Long March 5B reenter the earth!
CZ-5B chose this simple configuration to improve chance of a successful launch, there is no stage separation and ignition of second stage, which have failed quite some rockets in history and the most recent example is the sslv. All the engines are started at sea level and shut down in sequence as they finish their job. If any of them failed to ignite, the rocket won't go. It is China's first heavy lift launcher and it's launching all flagship missions like the station modules and a telescope. But I do agree that anything come back into the atmosphere has a chance to hit someone, and it won't be good if it did.
I am not sure that is the reason why. the reason is more likely because CZ5 was design for deep space and this left them with a core stage that is way too powerful for the role of space station carrier. they would have to make the station alot bigger to justify adding an upperstage. this is more a reality that China has limited budget and time, it can either use the rocket for the mars mission, or wait 5 years to build a specialised heavylift LEO rocket.
I'm still not sure what is the cost if they separate the rocket core stage seconds before it reaches orbit. Just like the external fuel tank of the space shuttle, they can have much better control over the landing site of the rocket if it is suborbital. The final orbit insertion can rely on the thruster of the space station. Does this maneuver require a significantly more powerful thruster than it is currently equipped on the space module?
if the payload failed to ignite its engine and raise it's perigee, it's going to reenter shortly after launch
@@vony7 Last month, when Wentian was launched, after separation from the rocket, Wentian also needed to use its own thrusters to change orbit. Do you mean that with the current strategy, if the thrusters of the space module fail to ignite at first, there are still several days of in-orbit time to repeatedly try to ignite? Is there a precedent for such a situation where ignition fails at first, but is eventually saved?
@@huangclpku the russian Nauka module had some initial propulsion problem but had it fixed eventually
A very small amount of thrust applied at the moment of apogee might finesse the angle of reentry just enough to drag the module down. Even a simple cold gas thruster might work.
just because you reach a certain height does not mean u are in orbit. you have to make sure the trajectory goes over the planet on the other side, so you are not imparting height, you are imparting speed. this is why rocket end their flight sideway, they are trying to impart speed into the payload. also the spacestation isn't just in orbit, it actually quite abit higher so there is less drag on the station and it would fall back to earth slower. the station is about twice as far from earth as when the rocket seperate from it. you can build a spacetug to move the station of course, however that is to introduce an additional spacecraft that has to perform it mission without errors for everything to work. the fact is, there isn't that many station module to launch is it doesn't make sense to invest so seriously to design a new space tug just to use it 3 times.
Thx Atlas VPN
A sideline question: Is it possible to keep the cargo module in space? And maybe reuse it or repurpose it in the future?
great job! #taikonauts❤Chinese #Taiwan Province 😗
I think the objective lesson here is that when China designs it’s future rockets in they should builddisposal of spent stages into their mission plans. I know that this rocket has a stage and a half ground light design, but it doesn’t take all that much delta v to lower an orbit enough to hit say, the Pacific.
They knew the fallen path. So it doesn't need control.
Would you not report on Space X rocket debris that fell into a NSW farm in Australia. Probably there are casuties.
Has anyone calculated if a simple cold gas thruster could apply enough force to cause reentry drag if applied at the moment of apogee when an elliptical orbit is most easily changed? This would finesse the problem by avoiding the risk of starting a combustion engine or launching much extra weight.
I believe the thrust of a cold gas thruster is a bit low. According to my calculation, 16 m/s dv is required at apogee to deorbit the core module (perigee from 180km to 130km). The thrust of a large cold gas thruster is a couple of hundreds of N. It will take about half an hour to reach the dv.
CL Huang, good reply from someone who can do math. As you estimate one thruster is a bit low for one pass, then how about using a pair of thrusters and/or several passes? For maximum perturbation of an orbit, thrust should be applied perpendicular to the trajectory and without spinning the rocket body uselessly, after it has been oriented in a pancake configuration for maximum drag. Suppose two thrusters push at opposite ends. If multiple passes are required, the tricky part would be knowing which pass would be the final triggering one, but it might be possible to measure atmospheric resistance on successive descending passes to determine the sensitive threshold. A deorbiting procedure which requires reentry to happen at low perigree might necessarily limit choice of locations to be near the initial launch region, such as the Sulu Sea for a launch from Hainan (which is what happened, arousing the suspicion there was some control involved). It would be cool to see an analysis in a white paper with the equations and assumptions laid out.
@@jonathanjarvis6509 i would assume you need some kind of orientation control to make it work. the most logical solution imo is to have a space tug launch with the module and the tug move the module into LEO without the core stage reaching orbit. I feel like we are fixing a non-existing problem, the issue shouldn't be to try and teach the core stage to fly, but to remove the requirement altogether.
@@jonathanjarvis6509 I basically agree with you. Controlled re-entry is not impossible, but it is not trivial either. The key is cost and risk consideration. Without the technical details of the rocket, it is impossible to analyze them. Unfortunately, I haven't found any good analysis about them yet. Both sides of the argument are dominated by emotions.
@lagrangewei Well said about fixing a non-existent problem. As Elon said, the best part is no part.
Very good explanation!
Add explosives to brake it apart so the smaller pieces will burn up better?
The Australian Space Agency confirmed that the space debris found in the Snowy Mountains on August 2022 in southern New South Wales belongs to a craft built by Elon Musk’s SpaceX company.
It's not the first time USA rockets put the World into serious danger.
The biggest Near Rocket Return disaster (matched by no other) occurred on July 11 1979. USA's Skylab made a terrifying and unpredictable return to Earth (leaving the World in panic) finally breaking up in the atmosphere and showering HUGE burning debris over the Indian Ocean and Australia.
Today, if you drive through Australia's Nullarbor Plain, you'll see Service Stations along the Freeway, using the Skylab CHUNKS as ornamental tourist attractions. It was by LUCK that the Skylab Chunks did NOT land on a Town or City.
Nowhere as dangerous as American nuclear testing just FUD. that for an event that was estimated and landed without any danger to anyone who weren’t warned.
in the 19th century the Chinese workers built the most difficult part of the trans-continental railway through the rugged Sierra Navada Range. Thousands of them died in the process. When the railway was completed, they were not even invited to the completion ceremony. A few years later, the congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act banning Chinese immigration and banning these workers from marrying non-Chinese, literally depriving them of their reproducing rights, One and half century later, the China-bashing has become political correctness in the US.
Iam not a Chinese but i haven't seen about AMERICAN space debris by you
He's trying to keep his channel away from politics which is a good thing.
objective and fact driven, like always
Thank you again for the great video
Full reusable rocket solve the problem of reentry.
what about pushing the rocket into outer space?
Good unbiased coverage!
space x... do the same... their debris fall in Australia
errrrm why is that debris blinking blue lights!!!???? OMG OMG theyre HEREEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
One country always have control entry missiles from YAV targeting civilians!🤣
Why did America's SpaceX dragon Reenter Uncontrollably?
🙏👍🙏🙂🙏
too seated with SpaceX
👍👍👍👍
Has the us done the same or is doing?
Yes. Many times. It's ignored because in a Cold War, you focus / over-exaggerate on your enemies problems.
The JSR Launch Vehicle Database, 2019 Nov 18 Edition contains 68,832 launches. The launches include 5,436 orbital launches, 27,555 suborbital launches, and 35,834 endoatmospheric flights. How many uncontrolled reentry was there since human first launch rockets into the sky. How many were done by the CNSA up til then and since. Whoever controls the media, controls the narrative.
I hope we will soon have reusable rockets in the near future.
Thx for the unbiased review! I still find it crazy that these risks were ever even allowed ….
Thanks @Ellenation! Unfortunately there are no clear (binding) international regulations on this topic ☹️ Considering the current political situation, I think we’ll see more progress (in China and other countries) from national regulations rather than international.
👍🇨🇳👍🇨🇳👍
Is a bad practice by the Chinese.
What's with your fake name?
Chinese space software is stupid software 😂