I wish there was more honest discussion about pros and cons in the industry. The cons won this discussion about alloy blocks. Iron blocks with aluminum Cleveland heads is a reasonable compromise 🏆
Part of the issue with the stupid high cost of Ford aluminum blocks is the lack of an economy of scale. GM's aluminum LS engine is reasonably affordable and a popular choice because thousands of them are manufactured. The other issue that always irks me is having to duplicate the machine work that I am already paying for when I buy the block, heads or whatever. To pay $8K for a block, only to end up dealing with porosity, sleeves that are mispositioned, decks out of parallel etc. is a paradigm we have lived with since I first turned a wrench and we have not seemed to demand more as an industry some 50 years later. If I buy a brand new ls3 block, I'll likely have to pay for the same machine work, as if I used an old used piece! Good analysis on the pro's and con's, Brent. I lean heavily towards aluminum as my projects are mostly marine based, where weight is everything. The temperature gradients encountered when raw water cooling an aluminum block are also more significant than that encountered with iron.
I find that information quite interesting putting the two block types in perspective. Thanks Brent. Personally, I prefer cast iron blocks with aluminum cylinder heads.
I bought a Shelby aluminum block years ago. There were no new iron blocks. Paid $5600 and it included the studs. All the Shelby blocks a NOS. They were cast by Arias many years ago. When putting it in a Cobra replica, or a vintage Mustang, the weight savings is a tremendous benefit to handling. and acceleration. It more than offsets the horsepower loss (if any). I set my tight lash Street Roller cam to 0.006" cold. Also the engine runs cool because the aluminum dissipates the heat rapidly.
The weight doesn’t offset. A 100 lbs is a tenth in the quarter. If you lose 40 hp, that’s almost two tenths. It’s really just for bling. In a cobra the engine sits behind the front axle centerline anyway.
very glad you started this channel. We get an honest view of what it takes to actually build a high-performance engine, as opposed to just screwing one together. This comparison of aluminum vs cast iron was very well presented. How's your flying progressing?
Back in 2002, When we bought a Shelby aluminum FE block for our ERA 427 Cobra it cost $5,000....and we thought that was outrageous at the time. But no one was making cast iron side oiler FE blocks back then, just used up/sleeved/holed skirt 427 blocks for $2,000!
I had the same experience. No decent 427 Iron blocks available. The Shelby block has better oiling. The oiling system was patterned after a Mopar by Arias. Paid $5600 and it came with the ARP studs.
Everything you said is accurate. And can be compensated for. When you are prepared to step up, there is such a thing as a billet aluminum block. Significantly more expensive, but speed costs, how fast do you want to go? I do believe it is the future.😅
If the aftermarket could design and pour an aluminum block like Teksid in Italy, I'd make the switch. 2 stroke engines have been using the spray bore since the 90's.
The OEM have a lot larger budget to spend on R&D, but the basic premises of aluminum still hold true. They will also choose fuel economy (less weight) over horsepower loss.
Thank you for the video/info. What about an all BILLET Aluminum block to help with ring seal and cylinder shift, etc❓ Also, would having the block "half filled" from the factory on a CAST aluminum block or all BILLET aluminum block help with the cylinders dancing around❓---- or even filling part of the block with the minimum amount of grout type of material be of any help❓ I understand filling the block is defeating the purpose of trying to save weight.... but what about the rigidity of the Billet block❓---- is there no help there either❓ I already know billet aluminum blocks are already ridiculously super expensive. 🧐😧
Billet aluminum is still aluminum and still has the thermal expansion rate of aluminum. It's a little different than a cast aluminum block, but still squirms.
“You can’t have pistons riding against a bare aluminum surface .” I guess someone forgot to tell this to GM back in the ‘70’s when they came out with the Vega! What a disaster.
Another excellent, informative video. Thanks, Brent.
Paul 😎
Very interesting, I'd heard about many of the pros/cons of aluminum blocks but the lost of hp was a big surprise to me!
Thank you for sharing. You are so informative. God bless.
Very informative. I learn something with almost every video, thanks for doing this!
I wish there was more honest discussion about pros and cons in the industry. The cons won this discussion about alloy blocks. Iron blocks with aluminum Cleveland heads is a reasonable compromise 🏆
Part of the issue with the stupid high cost of Ford aluminum blocks is the lack of an economy of scale. GM's aluminum LS engine is reasonably affordable and a popular choice because thousands of them are manufactured. The other issue that always irks me is having to duplicate the machine work that I am already paying for when I buy the block, heads or whatever. To pay $8K for a block, only to end up dealing with porosity, sleeves that are mispositioned, decks out of parallel etc. is a paradigm we have lived with since I first turned a wrench and we have not seemed to demand more as an industry some 50 years later. If I buy a brand new ls3 block, I'll likely have to pay for the same machine work, as if I used an old used piece!
Good analysis on the pro's and con's, Brent. I lean heavily towards aluminum as my projects are mostly marine based, where weight is everything. The temperature gradients encountered when raw water cooling an aluminum block are also more significant than that encountered with iron.
I find that information quite interesting putting the two block types in perspective. Thanks Brent. Personally, I prefer cast iron blocks with aluminum cylinder heads.
Thanks Brent!
Thank you
Cheers mate.
I bought a Shelby aluminum block years ago. There were no new iron blocks. Paid $5600 and it included the studs. All the Shelby blocks a NOS. They were cast by Arias many years ago. When putting it in a Cobra replica, or a vintage Mustang, the weight savings is a tremendous benefit to handling. and acceleration. It more than offsets the horsepower loss (if any). I set my tight lash Street Roller cam to 0.006" cold. Also the engine runs cool because the aluminum dissipates the heat rapidly.
The weight doesn’t offset. A 100 lbs is a tenth in the quarter. If you lose 40 hp, that’s almost two tenths. It’s really just for bling. In a cobra the engine sits behind the front axle centerline anyway.
very glad you started this channel. We get an honest view of what it takes to actually build a high-performance engine, as opposed to just screwing one together. This comparison of aluminum vs cast iron was very well presented. How's your flying progressing?
Back in 2002, When we bought a Shelby aluminum FE block for our ERA 427 Cobra it cost $5,000....and we thought that was outrageous at the time.
But no one was making cast iron side oiler FE blocks back then, just used up/sleeved/holed skirt 427 blocks for $2,000!
I had the same experience. No decent 427 Iron blocks available. The Shelby block has better oiling. The oiling system was patterned after a Mopar by Arias. Paid $5600 and it came with the ARP studs.
It's actually like a Windsor oiling system! Very nice and priority mains!
Everything you said is accurate. And can be compensated for. When you are prepared to step up, there is such a thing as a billet aluminum block. Significantly more expensive, but speed costs, how fast do you want to go?
I do believe it is the future.😅
Very Useful Info .!!!
If the aftermarket could design and pour an aluminum block like Teksid in Italy, I'd make the switch. 2 stroke engines have been using the spray bore since the 90's.
How do the OE deal with these cons? Great video, again 👏
The OEM have a lot larger budget to spend on R&D, but the basic premises of aluminum still hold true. They will also choose fuel economy (less weight) over horsepower loss.
Die casting higher quality than sand casting?
Thank you for the video/info.
What about an all BILLET Aluminum block to help with ring seal and cylinder shift, etc❓
Also, would having the block "half filled" from the factory on a CAST aluminum block or all BILLET aluminum block help with the cylinders dancing around❓---- or even filling part of the block with the minimum amount of grout type of material be of any help❓
I understand filling the block is defeating the purpose of trying to save weight.... but what about the rigidity of the Billet block❓---- is there no help there either❓ I already know billet aluminum blocks are already ridiculously super expensive. 🧐😧
Billet aluminum is still aluminum and still has the thermal expansion rate of aluminum. It's a little different than a cast aluminum block, but still squirms.
“You can’t have pistons riding against a bare aluminum surface .” I guess someone forgot to tell this to GM back in the ‘70’s when they came out with the Vega! What a disaster.
Weight is the only pro. Maybe ease of welding also. If you don't need the reduced weight, save your money.
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 TRUMP 2024