Will Night Trains Replace Planes?
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- Опубликовано: 31 авг 2023
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Into Europe: Europe is looking to Night Trains as a new tool to green its public transport system and replace the plane.
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your music is too loud
wow! grape!@@Ronaldo-ue5if
If one is comfortably and securely sleeping, 'Fast' is NOT the travel priority, but rather 'Convenience.' That is the whole idea. One also saves a night in a hotel, arrives in the centre of the city, is in time for a morning meeting and has had a light breakfast.
Convenience is a high speed train or an airplane followed by sleeping in your own bed, night trains aren't useless but it isn't the great solution they're occasionally made out to be
@@jaxonmattox9267 How many have you used and on which routes?
I think you’re wrong about convenience: a Night train = 1 hotel night + HST or Plane
In most cases it doesn't save a night in a hotel. It usually adds a night of travel in most cases you are spending more for that seat or private cabin vs taking high speed rail or airline in the early morning
I'm not a morning person so the idea of waking up early and running to an airport or train station isn't a fun idea.
@@trackstarpat151 If you're not a morning person and you save the night you would have spent in a hotel or on a night train, you must be getting up at 4am to get a 7am flight to be at a 9h30 or 10am start at the office of your destination. Yet you declare yourself not to be a morning person and therefore don't want to do this. And why would you be 'running to a train station' early in the morning to catch a NIGHT train???
What are you talking about??
@@lours6993 it doesn't save a night at a hotel for a majority of travelers.
If decide to take a plane or high speed rail and it will get there at the same time. I will just stay in my current residence that I be paying for no matter what
I've taken numerous overnight trains in Europe and adore the convenience of waking up right in the heart of the city, bypassing the fuss of airports and subsequent commutes via bus or taxi. Its simply more comfortable and stress-free way of travel.
Plus you save a night's hotel... And you won't spend half a day with air travel, often in very inconvenient hours.
I have never used it, so I am quiet curious.
But isn't the comfort compared with a reglar hotel quiet bad ?
In videos I have seen cabin were quiet small ( compared to price ) and not that quiet.
Most people said they didn'T get that good of a night sleep.
It also seems to be more expensive then flight + hotel.
Just looked up. Train 350€ Hamburg - Wien and back Wien - Hamburg
Flight both ways. 80€ + Hotel 4 Stars in city center 150€
flights are usually cheaper@@blablup1214
@@saberswordsmen1 Yeah I understood that it is not targeting budget travelers. But to me at least those trains also seemed quiet incovinient. A little bit like traveling in a star maximum 2 star hotel.
@@saberswordsmen1 If you like it this is nice.
Is there something like a cabin price or are you paying per person ?
Particularly relevant when going between expensive cities, sure the night train is expensive, but it's probably not as expensive as a hotel in paris or amsterdam. Presumably late at night the rails are used less, meaning it should be cheaper, and running slower should give fuel and wear savings too! Always loved waking up to see the mist over hills and forests in eastern european night trains, much better than flying a crowded plane. Thanks for the awesome video, love this channel!
at night the rails are not necessarily running less, as nighttime is used a lot for both maintenance and freight trains. Especially since noise reduction laws sometimes mean you have to drive slower at night.
And germany, who is permanently overburdened with freight trains, is becoming a huge obstacle for nightjet as many of its sleeper trains get a lot of delay in germany, meaning the obb loses quite a bit of money (and customers) as it has to partially refund the tickets, if the train is late. (due to as per eu law)
How does it save a night at a hotel? Wouldn't you just stay in your place and travel in the morning. Most likely that morning travel will be cheaper compared to a night train
Eastern Europe? Or maybe Central Europe?
@@trackstarpat151 if you leave in the morning, you would arrive in the afternoon at your destination, or later. The amsterdam-vienna nightjet for example arrives at 9-10 ish in the morning in Vienna, so you have the entire day in vienna. Meanwhile taking the regular train costs 10,5 hours at least (you have a 10 minute transfer in Frankfurt, good luck), meaning if you leave in the morning, you spend the day traveling. Brussels-Berlin is a similar story at 7 hour travel time.
@@melaniedrogr951 ok I can take an 7 am flight and end up in the center of the city around the same time
For me the difference in terms of travel time with night trains is that essentially there is no time wasted. I would sleep anyway, but using a night train, I can avoid going through airport while sleeping. Also the european sleeper already runs on the berlin - brusseles route and it seems to be profitable. I took it from poland to amsterdam having to change trains in berlin.
Another thing is high speed night trains, they could offer the possibility of crossing the whole continent with just 1 night
As someone who absolutely hates flying I really like the concept of night trains. My only issue though is how damn expensive you are. Like, 150 euros for a single trip? For half that amount I could perfectly pay for a low-cost plane ticket plus a cheap hostel.
I like the idea of night trains and I hope to see more of them, but in order for them to become truly competitive they need to lower their prices. Which might happen as soon as more competition enters the railway industry, like it happened for high-speed trains. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I also think flights need to be taxed based on pollution. Or do like France and ban flights that are well within train distance (don't think we can just rely on night trains for that)
@@guerreiro943 Planes are not that cheap. You just pass on the cost to the next generation through their carbon emissions...
@@idanvegana That's true but I was talking specifically about financial cost.
@@guerreiro943 Carbon emissions are a financial cost. Just one sitting in a ledger waiting to be collected at some future time.
When I was a kid in the '90s, me and my family traveled a lot by night train when going on vacation to Italy. People ought to know how tremendously cozy that is. I really wish they'd come back in a big way.
I went from Rome to Paris on a night train as a kid in the 90's. It was a fantastic experience!
I used them in Vietnam and Russia, the night trains were fantastic and Ive often wondered why my country, Australia, which has 5 large cities about 700-800km from one another (AdelaideMelbourneCanberra & SydneyBrisbane) with long slow rail journey times between them of 10-15 hours, doesn't really have much in the way of night trains at all. I looked into it and we used to but these have been slowly squeezed out for the last few decades.
Same has happened in Canada for the most time, although our cities in the east are a lot closer than yours. But our remaining lines in the East that run kinda often take longer than car travel and are many times more expensive
@@MegaJellyNelly @kyletopfer7818 One reason why night trains are more easy to operate in countries like Vietnam and Russia (than Canada or AU) might be the lower wages. Running for 10-16 hours per trip, a night train relies on a lot of labour that needs to be paid for but is cheap when wages are low. In contrast, jet fuel prices don't vary so much around the globe. This is also why in first-world countries a flight comes cheaper for the customer than a night train ride, because wages are comparably expensive there.
Despite these hard facts, I do hope night trains can have their renaissance since hoping for carbon-neutral or even climate neutral planes is quite unrealistic.
We used to. Couple of trains I caught as a kid had the cabins up fromt
night trains are a necessity in Russia, without them, most people wouldn't be able to see their relatives on the other side of the map
It's sad to see train system in Vietnam declining tho. It used to be preferred because it's cheaper than flying, but now flying between Ha Noi and Ho Chi Minh (a 1700km journey) now costs only half the price of train, while only taking 3hr compared to the 24+ hour on the train. Not only that, the coaches are not very well cleaned, service is rather limited, and you're stuck without Wi-Fi for the entire journey. I'd take it if I want to see the country on train, but not travelling. Night train for shorter, 400km-ish routes is somewhat better, and I usually take them just to avoid the delays at airport
3:09 Night trains do have many intermediate stops though, not only those departing in the late afternoon but even for trains departing at night it is common to have stops at 1am, for example the night train between Vienna and Amsterdam stops in 9 intermediate stops. Only between 1am and 5 or 6am the trains avoid stops.
A couple weeks ago i took the night train from Vienna to La Spezia in a sleeping car. The ride was 16 hours from 19pm on the departure to 11 am. 16 hour journey which felt amazing tbh. I fell asleep in the alps of southern austria and woke up when our train was sneaking over the tall buildings of genoa. This journey was more relaxing than most other long journey train trips ive done, especially because the beds on the austrian sleepers are quite cozy. Some tips: bring an extra pillow and in summer maybe a small fan to cool you down (especially when travelling in Italy)also be aware that if you travel in a sleeping car you will be able to use most of the first class lounges in european countries
Fun fact: the night train line between austria and the netherlands is called NJ 420.
Also ÖBB introduced some newly built trains this year that have a capsule-hotel like carriages in addition to normal cabins. Since privacy and snoring people have always been my main issues with sleeper trains, that definitely makes me consider using them more.
Really fun indeed
Great video however I would add that another key reasons for people choosing night trains is that you effectively save on one (and potentially two) nights of accomodation.
Most night trains arrive at destination before 9am allowing you a full day to explore the city; similarly most night trains depart after 8pm (and many after 10pm) allowing you an almost full day on departure. This second aspect is particularly relevant in my opinion as many budget airlines offer flights early in the morning, effectively forcing you to pay an extra night of accomodation only to leave in the early hours of the next day.
Night trains present an unique case where you don't want the travel time to be as low as possible. If I'm supposed to get a night's worth of sleep, a ride with 6h travel time is useless, especially as most people wont fall asleep the exact moment the train departs (looking at you, Malmö-Stockholm line).
Austrian here. The Night Jet from Vienna to Rome is simply amazing! You really make the most of your trip if you save on two nights in the hotel and have essentlially zero transportation hours.
They are also fairly comfortable. If you travel in a group of 4 you can book an entire compartment for yourself.
The whole package is simply just great value for the customer. Seriously. F*ck flying! The rolling hotel is the future!
Europe needs more innovation and imEurope needs more train lines that connect the entire continent, along with innovative high-speed trains similar to those in Asia
High speed rail isn't the priority, reliance, convenience and perception are.
They are doing it and Europe excellent high speed rail systems which is among the best in the world. I'm not sure what kind of innovation you're looking for.
After China Spain has the largest high speed rail system in the world, and many lines are under construction (the new line to Asturias should open in November), France has the 3rd largest and Germany the 4th - and they just committed to invest much more in new lines. After that is Japan and than Italy.
They're also working on increasing freight trains usage.
Open access is growing and lowering fares and ETCS expending in Europe (too slow) and around the world.
There are a lot that still needs to be done but they are on the right path.
I don't think that high speed trains is not a priority, like Jacobl66 said, but it is important to also increase investment in local transport.
@@AL5520 I guess he mean travelling between countries. In my opinion it is It is pretty hard/slow here traveling fast between major cities in Europe. There are just no 300/400 km/h lines available.
Buying tickets if you cross the border can also be a big hassle :/
It would be nice to have one single website to buy a ticket that gets you everywhere
@@Ronaldo-ue5if That's crazy, nobody cares.
@@AL5520 freight trains were progressively replaced in France during the last decades by hundred of thousands of trucks on the roads, increasing trafic and pollution.
The ecological speech is so far just plain green washing in EU and we'll have time to die from pollution diseases (already number 1 morality factor in many countries) before it comes to daylight.
In France, it seems like all of a sudden the liberal economical agenda set up since the 2000's wanted the pure and simple death of the rail: crazy prices, empty trains, no more lines deserved, end of the freight.
They closed the deal from Paris to Toulouse for the whole sale food market because the SNCF would not be open to discussion regarding the cost.
Also one has to mention that the kerosene used in planes is not subject to taxes.
'Fast' and 'Cheap' are not the only criteria for travel. 'Comfort' and 'Convenience' are big factors, which is fairly clear when listening to people talk about their travel experiences. Night trains index high on the latter two in exchange for the first, and turn generally non-productive sleep time into useful travel time. Obvious benefits for both personal and business travel.
Also big thank you to Frédéric from Mediarail, who helped shaping the story. Go check out his awesome blog (in English and in French) here: mediarail.wordpress.com/
I took night ferries between islands in Greece this summer. Why did i never think of this before? Comfortable sleep and early morning you are at your destination with no stress! Id happily do this with trains too when they start offering more routes
I like the idea of thinking this new type of train vacation as a long distance and long term vehicle that lies somewhere between the complete un comfortability of flying and the absolute luxury of a cruise. It presents a more "adult" version of the interrail that many of us took as young adults.
Night trains are fairly common here in Finland too. It's a fairly tall country so distances for people traveling from the south to the Arctic circle or beyond are very long to drive yourself. The national rail service here offers a service where you can take a night train from Helsinki to the Arctic circle and even load up your own car on the train so you can drive yourself further north after the last stop. It's extremely convenient for e.g. families going on vacation because you can just sleep with your family in a cabin and then start driving after a good night sleep to your final destination. I think that here too the cabins are the most popular option, and there are at maximum one or two seater cars in addition to the cabin cars. After all, just the train portion of the trip is almost as long as going from Berlin to Paris.
I just took a night train from Helsinki to Lapland (and back) for the first time last week. It was very comfy and cheap. If only we had this kind of night trains in central Europe! Le Sigh!
From living in Belfast, by far the easiest way to get to London early morning was to fly to Glasgow the previous evening and take the night train, arriving relaxed around 6am. Far better than getting up
I've used it once and waking up in Venice sure was an experience.
However, similar to flights, some people might have more trouble with sleeping than others.
Yea this is a big factor. The argument that it doesn’t waste time cos you’re sleeping anyway breaks down for many ppl cos they don’t sleep at all
The cost is partly because people need more space to sleep. In a 2nd class day carriage you can sit 80 people but sleepers can only carry about 26. Couchetes can carry more but the problem with those is you might have to share your compartment with 5 strangers Then there's things like wash basins, showers and so on which make new sleeper carraiges even more costly. It helps if they use old coaches which have already paid for themselves.
In spite of the problems I really hope night trains make a comeback. I've used them myself and it's great falling asleep in one country and waking up in another. It's sure nicer than driving or taking a plane.
ÖBB now has capsule hotel like ones. They don't quite have the 6 beds / couchette capacity that old sleeper trains used to have, but you have full privacy and noise/smell isolation
It is possible to increase capacity. China has managed to fit 60 single pods in their most recent high speed sleeper cars, by using upper and lower interleaved beds, like airline beds. So your feet go into a tunnel that is the table of the person in front. That would narrow the gap significantly. But it would still be more expensive, and there are only so many sleeper trains that can leave per night.
I think here sleeper trains can improve. If airplanes can fit that many people on 10+ hour flights, the budget option on a sleeper should also be able to do it.
Night trains are a niche, but an important one.
They can also work together with daytime high speed trains to cover really long distances.
There we run into a problem with the current booking situation because if a night train is delayed, you cannot just take the next day train in case you had to reserve for a specific one. And if your day train is late and your night train is gone you have to stay overnight unexpectedly in another city and continue your journey the next day ...
During my recent trip to Scandinavia I took sufficiently long breaks. I actually did two day-night segments with the same company and they worked:
Hamar to Bodø via Trondheim: The train ended unexpectedly in Dovre due to a defective overhead wire, we had to wait for the replacement bus, but the night train from Trondheim to Bodø waited for the bus and departed half an hour later (it was still on time in the morning).
Narvik to Stockholm via Boden: No problem, smooth connection.
Going from Denmark to Hamburg however I gave myself a buffer of two hours before the nightjet, just to be sure, because there I had booked with two different companies and that means no right to get paid a hotel in case I miss the train. (I saw that it would have worked out but like this I had two hours for a dinner in Hamburg.)
International booking in Europe is a mess and you will soon end up with ten different apps on your phone, plus tickets printed out, bought from a machine or counter or even mail-ordered in advance. Sorting out all this requires expertise that cannot be expected from the average traveller.
There is also a shortage of rolling stock. When the new trains for ÖBB finally start going into service at the end of this year this will improve somewhat. Some of the services mentioned in the video rely on very old rolling stock (second or third hand) that's not particularly attractive and sometimes has reliability problems. Things like "air conditioning not working right" or "toilet is out of water".
As mentioned there are passengers willing to pay for a good service and I'm one of those but the current situation leaves a lot to be desired ... I just have to look at the nightjet trains from Italy to Austria that are almost always delayed by an hour or so.
The ‘background’ music/noise is way too loud - I can barely hear what you’re saying.
Me, a West European from Belgium: Never even heard anyone speaking about it if it weren't for youtube or Thai BL series 😂
Last time I visited Europe I took the OBB nightrain between Amsterdam and Vienna. I really enjoyed it. Compared to Canada where the VIA train is so expensive if you want a cabin, I found the OBB Nightjet a total bargain. Even though locals seemed to think it was expensive I didn't mind paying something like 120 euros for a private overnight cabin by myself, and i'm just an average working class Canadian. It saves you an extra night on a hotel you'd otherwise have to pay for if using some other form of transport. A sleeper cabin on a Canadian train in comparison is something like $2000 on "The Canadian". It's actually cheaper to fly all the way to Europe and take a night-train to try it out believe it or not! I will definitely take it again in Europe. For an international tourist, it gives it that "old-timey" romanticism that I kind of liked when I was there.
It is expensive compared to the alternative of flying that route. They should stop subsidizing the aviation industry and instead use the subsidies to make night trains cheaper. Even with interrail/eurrail, I still need to pay a reservation of ~€70 one way to avail a sleeper train. That is already return ticket for a low cost plane.
@@ksoosk You wouldn’t believe how easy and cheap people in Europe have it for travel. Here in Canada there is next to no passenger rail service between major cities and you’re looking at a minimum of a $350-$600 airline ticket to travel between any 2 major Canadian cities like Winnipeg to Calgary or Edmonton to Toronto. The idea of ONLy double digit transport tickets of any kind between cities is completely foreign to any Canadian.
I paid less than 70 € for a night train from Helsinki to Lapland (> 700 km). It included the journey for two people in a private compartment with toilet and shower. That's what I call a bargain.
I am so excited for the development of European rail. I traveled to Milan this summer from Brussels with a route that is only three years old. It went very quickly except for the Lyon to Turin leg so knowing that this will be resolved soon will mean that I will be able to travel further into Italy in the future without using planes
One advantage of nighttrains is that it is possible to have stops in smaller toerism destinations. The intercités de nuit in France takes you straight from Paris to for example the Pyrenees mountains. You depart in Paris in the evening and you can have your breakfast in Foix or Ax Les Thermes with view on the mountains or even go hiking from the morning since its also drops you of at 1500m.
Also extra service on the European sleeper to Berlin and next year Prague that its possible to take your bike and this is not possible or very difficoult on planes and high speed trains. Exploring a region by bike is very common and popular but renting a bike on the spot is not always possible or atleast very expensive. Also people prefer to take their own bikes since invested in them.
Being born in Ukraine 30 years ago, my childhood will always be associated with night train travel, as for such a big country it was one of the easiest and cheapest ways of travel - we would always take a summer trip to my aunt by 12 hr train to Kyiv. I'm happy this trend is back in EU and I wouldn't mind taking a night train to wake up in the new city.
With the large amount of overnight buses running around Europe every night it would suggest that there is a place for night trains but of course all the investment is in roads and those who use them don't generally pay the true access costs of roads.Hopefully the night train will make a true comeback but it isn't a level playing field with the power of the car industry.
It's a totally different demographic though. People take long distance overnight buses when they are extremely price sensitive, to the point where even budget airlines are too expensive. So you usually have students and low wage immigrants using them, there's not going to be much interest in a more premium experience.
Is it not possible to offer night trains in budget model?
@@ThomasBomb45 They do, it's just a regular train that runs at night, no beds, you sleep in your seat like you would on a plane or a coach.
This isn’t a car industry conspiracy theory lol. They’re entirely different demographics. Ppl who ride buses across Europe for 20 hours are in an entirely different tax bracket than those debating flying vs overnight train
If I had to ride overnight on a bus, I simply would choose not to travel at all. I cannot stand buses.
The last night train I took some years back was from Prague to Kosice in Slovakia, and it was a revelation!!
Not.
It was just a completely normal trip, which I hope will be the case one many more lines in Europe in the future.
Two things that were not mentioned in the video, but which play a role as well imo - some of the night trains (like the one from Prague to Kosice) have a car carriage as well, so at the destination you have the flexibility of having your car with you. And you save yourself a tedious long drive.
That is something neither airplanes nor high-speed trains can offer realistically. I found that very practical.
Also, high-speed night trains can in the future offer direct rail links which don't make sense today.
The auto subtitles are struggling a bit and it is hilarious.
night trains = no trains
Deutsche Bahn - the Tribune
Austrian = Ocean
Holzkern = house care
Holzkern = haute scare
Holzkern = health care
lines = lions
Austria = Astra
ÖBB = obvious
ÖBB = AUB
night trains = Nigerians
Deutsche Bahn - dutch bonds
remaining = women
branch = brands
Nightjet = nature
Trenitalia = Trend Italia
night = that
night train = nitrogen
night trains = nutrients
Setting up clean dedicated bathrooms/showers and lounge in railway stations would be awesome. I often rush home or to a hotel when getting off a night train.
As a yougn adult I took night trains in Italy longer distances because (although uncomfortable in cheaper coach seats) I didn't have to pay for a hotel/hostel. A couple years older, I took an overnight train from Philadelphia to Montreal. It was even better, I saw the benefits and knew what my tradeoffs would be. As an ancient traveler I now seek out HOW to take overnight trains to go (especially) longer distances both for lack of a hotel and for feeling better rested at my new destination. I have a mental game as to where can I take a night train to best utilize my limited time and money. More people should be open to this idea and experience. Thanks for this video--I'm a first time visitor.
I used a nighttrain in Norway/Sweden once from Narvik to Stockholm. After sleeping a bit I thought the train was waiting and broken so I look outside but it was actually moving! Theyre so smoooth😊❤
I took a night train once last year from Austria to the Netherlands and decided: never again. It's really uncomfortable to sleep, super slow, extremely expensive, and the train was over two hours delayed.
I know we're supposed to live trains, but flying is much much more reliable and comfortable in my experience.
I'm excited for this! Later this month I'm taking 2 nighttrains (AMS - Zurich, Zurich - Vienna) with my parents. As someone who has taken multiple 10h+ long flights, I know the same time in a train will be much more comfortable. I hope that European rail travel options become more plentiful and cheaper to give flights some serious competition.
I have just mad the trip Zurich - Amsterdam and back on the night train. It's a great way to travel but the carriages are really showing their age, I mean they have been retrofitted but they must be at least 30 or 40 years old. I'm so looking forward to the new rolling stock and hope they'll use it on routes serving Zurich soon.
I would love the comeback of Airships with the same concept. “Flying hotels” you take it by night connecting A to B moving relatively slowly in a comfortable matter and save the infrastructure of the night trains. The best of both, and we can make them now very reliable and safe
I think there is huge growth potential for night trains. Think of it like a land ferry. You could even have car transportation so people could take their car between cities. Park and sleep and wake up in a new city ready to explore! When travelling, people need to pay for a hotel anyway, and if that hotel takes you to the next destination, then it's all the better!
Exactly, I think the car thing is very important to innovate on. The expensive rail infrastructure should be able to pay for itself if ro-ro train trips (lorry or passenger car) were streamlined a bit more. The embarking-disembarking process for Eurotunnel Shuttle seems to require somewhat hefty station build :D but it could be made faster, couldn't it? With new train designs (shove cars on and off from the side, instead of a long and slow queue) and state-of-the-art route planning/booking solutions.
Motorail was common when cars were less reliable and air con and cruise control was an expensive extra of more interest are aeroplanes that you can take your car on which were also available
I recently took a nighttrain in italy and it was very bad, the train was very loud, the air was bad, the cabins small and the bed to short, but on another model of train I would love to try it again someday
Sleeper trains are amazing! I used to travel a lot from Moscow to St. Petersburg (roughly 800 km) and back, and used probably all means of transportation. Planes are the worst - you have to go to the airport (1-1.5 h), then spend some time in the airport before boarding (usually 40 mins or so), then you fly for a couple hours (in a quite uncomfortable conditions, you can't sleep etc.), and then use a taxi to get to the city centre (1-1.5h). So you spend almost 6 hours just travelling, and you usually can't do anything in that day because you're tired. High speed trains are better, you just board in a city centre, spend 4 hours in a train, in a comfort comparable to the plane (maybe a little better), and you arrive to the city centre, so it's effectively faster than plane, but it's still a good part of the day, or you sacrifice your sleep time to wake up early, so you arrive before noon. And the sleeper train is the best: you just board at midnight or so, then you just sleep for 8-9 hours and then you wake up in a different city at 8-9 am well slept and ready to go, it's virtually a teleportation. Event so called "плацкарт" (kind of third-class or open seatings but still with the bunks, so you can sleep) is much better than high speed trains and planes and it's literally cheap as dirt. China has sleeper buses, never used it, but I think it's the same thing.
I love night trains, but there are some major barriers for this services to overcame in order to move a lot of people and take on air travel.
You can run many high speed trains a day, but usually, only one night train between two destinations. This means that equipment utilization is low. Combine that with the extra manpower needed to run a nightrain and low capacity, and you end up with high costs.
I love taking night trains for a weekend hike in the mountains. Go Friday evening, arrive Saturday early morning, and then you get back early Monday morning and get to work. No wasted extra nights.
Suppress the night, problem solved !😂
In Spain 🇪🇸, the railway sector has recently been liberalized, since until now only the public company RENFE existed and now the French company OUIGO 🇫🇷 and the Italian Iryo 🇮🇹 have entered the Spanish market. On the other hand, it would be very good for all of Europe if there were a high-speed line 🚄 between Madrid and Lisbon 🇪🇸🇵🇹 and between Madrid and Paris 🇪🇸🇫🇷.
There is a high speed train from Madrid to Paris, with the exception of Perpignan to Montpellier segment.
@@druhyprogram yet there isn't a Malaga-Rome corridor :(
2030 seems to be the date given for a lot of this cross border infrastructure
There is no train from Madrid to Paris yet. There is a train from Montpellier Madrid, and Barcelona-Paris as well.
The current lines between Spain and France are a trains operated by RENFE from Madrid-Marseille and Barcelona-Lyon and the SNCF Oui In Barcelona-Paris.
RENFE has a shortage of rollong stock due to the long delay of the Talgo AVRIL but they will start receiving it in November so the RENFE Barcelona-Paris line should open in spring/summer 2024.
As for a high speed line, unfortunately France is doing everything it can to preven a good connection from Spain to Europe. The long slow segment between Perpignan and Nîmes is long overdue and still nothing, not to mention the Atlantic connection to Irun, in Basque Country that is not even close. Lately they said they won't do it before 2040/45 but now they said that it won't take that long but refused to commit to the promised deadline of 2030.
As for a train from MAdrid to Paris, since it's about 1600 km it's a bit long and with no full high speed connection will take close to 9h.
There is, however, an EU approved night train operated by European Sleeper connecting Amsterdam and Barcelona - scheduled for 2025.
As for Spain and Portugal. Things are a bit complicated. The European corridor connects Spain and Portugal through Badajoz in Extremadura but now the Portuguese have other plans as they decided to build their first high speed line from Lisbon to Porto and from there a connection to Vigo in Spain, which is currently not in the plans of Spain. They also want to use the Iberian gauge for their high speed line, while the rest of Europe, including Spain (that also uses Iberian gauge for regular train) use the standard gauge. It is solvable, Spain has plenty of trains that can change gauge and many on the fly gauge changing systems all over but it's not ideal. They had a few talks about it but still no agreement.
I'm just imagining business men and families in pajamas rn, all waiting at the station with a bag for their trip, just to all get into this cosy train. It could be so wholesome.
The last night trains in Spain were discontinued in March 2020 due to the pandemic, a mere excuse because they don't operate since then. The so called "Hotel Train" by Renfe connected overnight principal cities, including Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon and París. The fares were affordable and the service quite comfortable.
Night trains + high speed rail = high speed night trains. The benefit of a high speed night train is not the extra speed but the extra distance in the same amount of time.
Using the tunnel mentioned in the video between Lyon and Turin. A high speed train could make it from London to Milan in about 7 hours, to Long during the day but would be nice overnight.
You are correct as a matter of fact the Austrian Nightjet using new carriages are rated for 145 mph 230 kmh which is the max speed of ÖBB Baureihe 1016-1216 locomotives. From Belgium and the Netherlands Taurus locomotives are used at Aachen Hbf Duisburg/Köln Hbf for Wien Hbf via Aschaffenburg Laufach Heigenbrücken Lohr Nantenbacherkurve Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg Nightjet runs a pportion is actually split at Nürnberg Hbf for Innsbruck Hbf via Hauptstrecke München Augsburg Schnellfahrstrecke Rosenheim Innsbruck.
I’m 2 meters tall and have taken multiple night trains. I have to say that I prefere taking a flight, because in night trains the beds are way too small for me. Every time I woke up with backache.
Flights in Europe are also way cheaper then night trains. The most expensive flight i’ve taken in Europe was €80, but I do often fly for €20
It's quite painful to see night trains being less successful than planes for routes inside Europe. This just shows how much the European rail network has failed, it is more like bunch of patches barely connected with each other. And Germany is the biggest bottleneck of Europe, there are very few trains crossing Germany, if any. Germany is just focusing on local trains and neglecting the cross-border connections.
There's also many projects underway to specifically improve the border crossings though. The rebuilding of the Czech border line to 200km/h, the Fehmarnbelttunnel, the Brennerbasistunnel and its connecting tracks into germany are some notable examples
let's not forget that the German rail network operates on a totally different Voltage type and level then all surrounding countries. luckily this won't be a problem in the next decade with the rollout of engines with variable power supply
As having to deal with Deutsche Bahn on a regular basis. Germany is focusing too much on its Autobahns instead of its train infrastructure.
I travel a lot around Europe for work and would definitely prefer a night train instead of a 2-hour flight with 2 hours of travel and security nonsense on either side.
For me it is necessary that a night train also has a carriage for bicycles. The CityNightLine used to have such a carriage and I travelled with that a couple of times.
The next morning you are well rested and can start cycling in Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
Calling night train as hotel in rail means it would be very expensive and fancy.
In Asia they work pretty well as they are, I wish we could have something similar here
I love night trains, in Russia and many post-soviet countries they are an absolute staple and IMO one of the few things Russia gets right.
All big population centers are connected to each other by sleeper trains with three tiers of service, the cheapest being not seats but a coach with 52 sleeping places, the regular cabins have only 36 places. The schedules are set so that big pop center stops fall either on morning or evening to match passenger schedules. They still make stops in smaller towns at night, providing them with valuable connections to other places - I really don't see why that can't be done on other night trains.
I personally really enjoy the emotional aspect of hassle-free traveling by sleeper train: I just have to arrive at the station, check in, and then I can lie down and comfortably ease into the travel, unlike at the airports which are definitions of stress, lmao, and the planes are tight and make me feel groggy after the travel. Taking any flight virtually removes any chance of me making anything of the rest of the day because of how awful I feel after.
I truly like your videos and I hope you will gain a lot of followers the coming years! There's one question however: please don't fall in the trap of background music. It's almost never an added value and it makes it a lot harder to focus on your message.
Exactly. It is so loud and distracting.
It’s a strange phenomenon that many creators seem to go through, and luckily, end up scrapping the idea again. The OG Simon Wisthler build a whole RUclips imperium with just focusing on content. So there’s definitely no need in making it your viewers harder to understand your message.
Yeah, okay, thanks for the feedbacl! I actually have been thinking of scraping it for a while, and perhaps just keep it for the usually fast paced intro.
Feedback from you guys has been pretty consistent on it, so I think I will definitely apply it at some point in the future.
Cheers,
Hugo
@@IntoEurope While I do agree with the feedback, I think the music is in the right places. It's a matter of turning the volume on it down, and equalizing your voice-track to be a slightly brighter. Taking the music out in its entirety will make the video less appealing and less easy to watch, which is a hybrid thing you manage to do really well actually!
Thank you for your videos and keep up the good work.
One advice for future videos (which I'm looking forward to watching because you're always great!): reduce the volume of the background music, it is really very distracting and it makes it difficult to even understand you (I assume that particularly for non native English speakers)
Last year I took 3 night trains
Stockholm > Narvik
Helsinki > Rovaniemi
Bucharest > Budapest
I can't recommend them enough! Pun on earphones, watch movies comfortably, have little snacks and drinks while falling asleep... Then you wake up in a beautiful scenery like in a fairly tail, go grab morning coffee, no stress, no hassle, nice and rested ❤️
The night train is good only in a sleeper car if you have to sit all night - it's hard psychically. But on the other side, you will have to sleep next to strangers (if you are traveling alone).
Meanwhile in India, 95% of all inter state passenger trains are dedicated Sleeper trains, with the 7-tier system of different qualities, ranging from 2$ tickets to 50$ tickets for the same journey. However the average speed of the trains are abismally low, between 40 to 75 kilometers per hour. We can say that the billion-people country is connected on all corners by a 35-hour travel time, and things are changing really fast with the first HSR line starting operations in 2026, and masterplan to connect the whole country with HSR by 2052, a project known as the Diamond Quadrilateral.
The hotel thing is spot on. You want to have interesting city pairs where you visit one city, go to sleep, and wake up in another city.
If a particular city becomes a hub with many city-pairs or if you can have a city-pairs form a ring, people will absolutely love it.
Like it’s mostly a tourist thing because accommodation, travel, and logistics/ scheduling are your biggest concerns as a tourist. But imagine living in a European city and just going away for a weekend.
Hells if your private cabin is easy to reconfigure and you can have WiFi you can have day office train so like do 48 hours to go far.
But choosing your city pairs is key.
Night trains are complicated topic. My experience is limited, but I used service that is joint effort between OBB, START and PKP. You have to be really careful, because each carriage can have different price tag depending on operator. OBB charges 70 Euro for Berlin Hbf-Wrocław Gł., while PKP does same route in same train and in same class for around 30. START does not sell tickets between two stations abroad.
There are several facts to take into the mix.
- In Europe the distances of big cities are relatily close to each other.
- Airports are often an hour traveltime away from a city center.
- International terrorism had increased safety checks and boarding times.
- More slots and night fly restrictions on airports are enforced by law.
- Airports can't expand due to the cities expanding towards them or moved further away
- The unfair untaxed jetfuel advantage for the airline industry is challenged in court by other industries.
- Upcoming European wide Co2 and Nox emission restrictions on ALL transport.
We need these trains into the transport mix so intercontinental / European outskirt designation airtravel doesn't grind to a halt.
You missed a point : Night trains are not using high speed trains "expensive" infrastructure, but the old existing one, being able to pass/divert by freight lines if necessary as they don't stop in their central parts ...
It all depends on one simple nuance. If you can even sleep in train. Here we have a LOT of sleeper trains, on some routes there are no option than sleeper trains, so i have lots of experience with those. And while i can be tired enough to fall asleep in those, rarely it is uninterrupted sleep granting you well rested feeling. I often wake up fatigued with headache, so the whole next day is kind of torture from one cup of coffee to the next one till i get to a proper bed.
I detect a slight parallel with the viability of ship routes with overnight cabins in the central Philippines. When fast craft made the typical journey just 1-3 hours, people assumed that passengers on deep-hulled ships (mostly used for freight and ferrying vehicles) would disappear. But it is convenient to avoid the cost of hotels, and arrive at your destination bright and early. So trips in Visayas between ports like Cebu and Cagayan de Oro continue to have viable overnight cabins on ships, despite the competition from fast craft ferries and planes.
You need to see a night train as a hotel, but on rails. You don't have to rush to go on a vacation, when using a nighttrain. With stops along the nighttrain route, where you can get off, spend a few hours in the city and go back on the nighttrain and continu your journey. Just like a cruiseship. Europe has many beautiful cities, do do a trip like that, without rushing from one place to another
Ten years ago while on a three week trip to Italy, with our last week in a Rome apartment, we did a side trip to Venice. We had a nice trattoria dinner in Rome, boarded a night train to Venice, spent a whole day in Venice, ending with an evening at the La Fenice opera to see Carmen. Leaving the opera, we went back to the train station for another night train to Rome. With a stop at our apartment to freshen up, we had another day of sightseeing. That’s the fun of night trains, for tourists! The only negative was that we arrived in Venice before ANYTHING was open. Not even the train station bathrooms😢. So the service could be improved but still, night trains are great. PS we are retired, not young back packers.
In China, you can take night trains to virtually anywhere, and they are very convenient, and you don't need to consider the train as hotel to find them convenient. They are traveling longer distances that European sleeper trains are, and importantly they connect several cities of a region to several cities in another region.
If railway companies start considering that medium-sized cities are as interested as European capitals in night trains, then night trains would be more profitable.
So far, all national railway companies focus on connecting their capital to smaller cities, or connecting their capital to other European countries capitals. Just get rid of this mindset, and you'll see that night trains can indeed be profitable.
I remember taking the night train from Berlin to Zürich for my brothers wedding. Everyone else flew and was completely hungover and coffee fueled. I arrived at the same time, chirpy, well rested, and already had breakfast too :D
You must be super fit because I always felt exhausted after a night in a sleeper train.
I personally like travelling by train, and don't mind the longer travel time. However, when we're talking about really long overnight journeys, it's kinda hard to justify that when the price is higher than a plane ticket. Even with the hospitality and meals and a bed, it's not as convenient as arriving where I want to go within a couple of hours, and going to the actual hotel I have booked there. Even if it's an interesting experience, I'll still just take a quick plane/train in the morning if those are cheaper.
I am from Ukraine. We do have night trains, but they have several drawbacks. First of all, they are often slow, the cabins are old, and the toilets are horrible (not always, but in most cases). They also stop very often, which can be disruptive because you wake up every time the train stops or starts.
Even in California, night trains are getting a second look, with consideration to revive the “Lark”, the nighttime LA SF nighttime twin to the daytime “Daylight” last seen during the Southern Pacific era 60 years ago.
I used ÖBB nightjet for a trip to Venice (with the Deluxe option on the way there) just 2weeks ago and what really stood out to me is just how painfully slow these things move compared to regular cross-country trains. I'd gladly skip out on anmeties if it was any fast but as of now I just don't see the cost effectiveness over just paying for one extra night at the hotel.
I really like the overall idea but I think nighttraints still got a long way to go
The problem with night trains is not only that they are slower than high speed. You also can only do one trip per day because during daytime it's useless.
What I really don't understand is why we aren't seeing trains with airplane style business class flatbed seats. Those are comfy during day and can be used for sleep during night. As nice as a bed? No, but more versatile.
Just did European Sleeper with some friends, and it was a great adventure. Since it connects so well with Eurostar it gave us a route from London to Berlin with a bunch of camping gear that would have been a nightmare to fly with
Soundtrack is intense. First time i've felt on edge watching a video about trains. Thanks for video though!
I took one to travel from Verona to Rome and back with my parents when I was a child: it's a beautiful memory I have and an important part of that holiday! Such comfort I would not change for any kind of aircraft, and let me be clear that I am not afraid to fly since I am a paraglider pilot.
The main value proposition of nighttrains that is also heavily marketed by ÖBB is that you basically save a night of being in a hotel, but especially for business travellers (less so for the "environmentalists" = young people travelling for cheap and families) actually arriving in the morning is crucial. Thanks to low priority of the trains, on some lines they only arrive at 10 or 11 which is too late.
In Russia night trains is a common thing and a lots of people like it.
But for me it's always a torture - I cannot sleep well in train and it messes up my morning routine. I always prefer a plane or daytime train whenever possible. Bad sleep always feels much worse than wasted day hours (and usually results in a half-wasted day afterwards anyway).
In post-soviet countries, night trains absolutely have stops mid-journey. I travelled a bunch between Minsk and St. Petersburg on night trains and there were stops in the middle.
I am not surprised that the most expensive option sells out first - they should add a gourmet dining experience
As residents of Vienna, we’ve used the OBB night train a number of times. They also have the very convenient option of taking your car with you.
I love catching the overnight train between sydney and melbourne. The service is mostly made up of seats (but has one sleeper carriage) It makes many stops throughout the night and the main porpose is to connect all the towns inbetween in an affordable way. Many people do the whole sydney to melbourne journey as a cheaper alternative to the plane. Its not always a comfortable experience but the point of this service is cheap travel.
Some stingy people would be ready to travel in cattle waggons to save a dime. So despicable.
I have never taken an overnight train, but I have taken a lot of overnight ferries. Which is basically the same idea. The ship departs at 9 pm and arrives early in the morning. And they are always great. Better than flying
Night trains are awesome. I am just waiting for someone to think of making a combo of "high speed train" and "night train". Imagine falling asleep in lets say Budapest and waking up in Barcelona. But of course the problem is infrastructure as was correctly pointed out. I think EU can step in and make a solution by unifying everything. Yet I realize it is going to be horrendously expensive.
Yes, this is what I also wish for. High speed night trains can cover distances of 2000 km like nothing. Some of them operate in China with a special rolling stock.
The night maintenance of high-speed tracks is problematic though, perhaps with enough redundandancy in route options there could be some clever schedules for maintenance while allowing for high speed night trains.
How often is night maintenance needed? if it's not every night, run night trains on the most bust nights and maintenance on others
Took a night train for the first time 2 weeks ago in Norway and what a nightmare. Couldn't sleep at all.
6:38 I went on a night train where you just sit and it was torture for a tall guy like me. Worse than airplane seats. It was cheap as hell but since you can't sleep at all, it loses all of the advantages it has vs planes.
In the future, I really hope they get rid of the seats and provide a cheap bed option. Maybe kind of like a capsule hotel on wheels?
Last night train I took years ago from Hannover to Regensburg had several intermediate stops in between. Only annoying aspect was that they don't make any announcement over the PA in the night.
Tbh within a country or neighbouring countries in Europe I'd always choose the train over the plane. If I had to go from downtown Munich to Munich airport, the commuter train would take an hour ... that's without the time buffer you need to be there before the departture, and without the time it takes walking to your terminal, waiting in lines at the check-in, security checks, walk to the gate, boarding and actually getting to the runway ... and more or less same thing at your destination. You simply don't have all that when travelling by train. Also you're not limited to the size, weight or pieces of luggage.
They're still a thing in Romania. I've been taking them for ages every time I visit my family and my friends, which live in completely opposite parts of the country. So I just take a night train at 10pm and by the time I wake up I'm entering the station on the complete opposite side of the country.
Just took the Night Jet earlier this week. Loved it!
Interesting, I prefer your more politcal or macroeconomic content but I love that you're keeping things fresh and covering more niche topics
I would like to see trains like cruises where you just travel with the train doing long stops then back on to the next destination. Tour trains, I guess you could call them. As a traveler, I would love this.
Indeed, and I guess the video highlighted the annoying problem - infrastructure contention and stupidly varying rules between the countries. Whereas cruise ships don't have to negotiate such trouble - a sea passage of 400 km is a sea passage of 400 km, you don't get a catenary falling down on you nor pay any exorbitant fees to go your way.
A few of those exist. In Russia. Ruskeala Express is one of those I believe.
Russia has a long history with sleeping trains, and high-speed trains aren't omnipresent.
That would be a nightmare and huge step back. Crazy times
Nighty trains are fantastic. They are convenient, cheap, romantic. The confort of a cheap night train is equivalent to first class flight.
Flying is a nightmare taking a night train is a dream.
Lol there you go such a romantic way of seeing night trains completely out of touch with reality (ie what people want and need)
@@vinniewinnie7 People are different. It wasn't out of touch. Try again. Present the view that seems real to you. And don't deny existence of other quite common PoVs.
@@u1zha what I wrote earlier:
I think you covered the topic very well though maybe with too much nuance. Let’s recap with a little less nuance:
Time: plane and high speed rail travel beats night trains nearly every time
Cost: flying will generally be much cheaper cause operating cost are much cheaper for planes that fly 6-8 legs a day can can spread the costs over several flights. Same with high speed rail with better utilisation rates and more seats per car
Comfort: there is absolutely nothing comfortable about a night train which are boats on wheels that squeak and rattle. Also unless u take a private cabine there is a high chance u will share your room with total strangers.
Conclusion as you pointed out: night trains are for rich eco conscious travellers that want to feel good about themselves. It’s super niche!
The " romanticism" of the crappy toilets of French night trains 😂
What do you know about reality?@@vinniewinnie7
It makes me think of the overnight cruise I made from Helsinki to Talinn, it was a wonderful experience on board during te night and in the morning we arrived in the city. I would love to travel like this on trains.
When you see how expensive and inconvenient it is to travel through France alone, i would not bet night trains will be a viable option soon: no connections, in France trains will have to pass through Paris as usual, unaffordable fares, multiple tickets to be obtained, no centralization of time tables and prices, discounting system for several customers and not for others according the country of origin...
In a matter of organization, the Indian railway seems pretty well organized and one doesn't need to be rich to afford laying down during the trip...
Coming from India where literally every train is by default a night train, which can have a high speed day journey as well, it feels like a basic thing. Europe touts as being the ultimate travel destination but unfortunately has worse convenience in connectivity.
I use the Munich to Venice night train each year. I get trains from Bristol to Munich for the evening and then the nightjet to Venice. Use this to help me get to my skiing holiday. Love it as I hate the chaos of flying. So for me nigh trains are amazing. I’ve also used the sleepers in the UK to get home to Scotland too 👍
My dad worked at a smaller company that ran holiday trains so to speak, in the Netherlands. Like a car/sleeper train, with which you woke up in Italy together with your car. And also a train that got you to Austria in the morning, to go skiing.
While the company had some succesful years, it was hard to keep it going, and it was stopped before going bankrupt.
Things that made it hard, is that it was just a small private company, not on of the big ones (that are often owned or backed by government). So you are the small "annoying spec" in the big picture of train planning and so on.
They also used old trains refurbished, as you cannot really purchase new trains for this as a small company, it is just to expensive.
Some of the services are continued now under a different company.
I’ve been saying that night trains are like moving hotels for years. I’m glad that the market is now seeing this.
I frequently take nigh trains operated by regular DB trains between Berlin and Frankfurt and some other destinations, and even those services are also rather popular, despite their utter lack of sleeping comfort.
So night trains don't even have to be comfortable, just convenient, affordable and available.
I prefer travelling by train inside Europe. I did multiple Budapest-Warsaw journeys this year, then last year a Budapest-Bucharest and back as well as a bigger loop in Budapest-Warsaw-Sopot trip. On the Warsaw-Sopot section I was using the Polish high-speed railways. This year I took this route to Italy: Budapest-Vienna-Milan-Naples-Rome-Vienna-Budapest. Much much more environmentally friendly way of travel. I was also struck by the loco's smoke.