As a 48 year old that's been in the scene since I was in college, this guy sums it up. I'm purchasing my first cheap mixing deck soon and can't believe I'll be able to do this at home and for my friends one day. This also sums up why groups like book club radio are doing so well now too. Pure class, and keep it coming, and big love and see you all on the dancefloor ❤
@@datdude89 nah man, living in Germany as a producer and dj this hard techno is shit. It's fine if you don't know electronic music, but every other genre is better. Want fast but rhythmic with vocals? listen to trance. Want hard and heavy? listen to industrial or hardcore techno. Want rhythm and dance? Listen to house or breaks/garage. Want vocal pop remixes with some groove? Listen to Tech house. Want to dance hard and sweat out all your energy? Listen to dnb or bassline. Want just good techno? Listen to techno. Literally every genre is better than hard techno. DVS1 is right- it's a gateway for young people to get into the music, but if you stay in hard techno you get bored after a few parties. It's just the nature of the beast when you make music to be generic. It gets stale.
Thank you to all involved for sharing this! I enjoyed hearing these insightful thoughts from DVS1. I reckon authentic 'underground' would prefer not to be labeled as such, or labeled/categorized at all, for that matter. They care less about categorization (side tangent: categorization in itself is partly what is fucked up in our society, it simplifies human-made concepts so it creates convenience but it also creates divisiveness and wars...) and the 'underground' of my dreams rather care more about community, true artistic expression and freedom from mainstream media, and simply freedom, in all its essence, for the love of it. I'll leave this little nugget of wisdom from Alan Watts, open for any reader's interpretation: "The world is a musical phenomenon. Good music never refers to anything except the music itself."
I've been listening to electronic music since the '80s, after growing up on UK punk and alternative music as a kid. I'm 55 now and still go out weekly to enjoy electronic music - the secret to staying young! 😊 Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate most genres and styles, including hard techno. In my opinion, there’s good and not-so-good music in every genre, and taste is always subjective. What one person sees as underground, another might view as commercial. While there’s definitely commercial or soulless music out there, I also think each generation can be quick to criticize new twists and trends. BPM trends have shifted up and down over time, but nowadays there’s a broader mix of styles and BPMs coexisting. We can clearly see commercialization’s impact, but I wouldn’t define music solely by its speed or style. Ultimately, it’s all about personal taste. I love hearing how music continues to evolve while still being self-referential to its roots.
He is absolutely on point with the hard techno stuff. Clubbing started for me past covid and the first thing to find which took my interest was hard techno. A lot of my friends followed. But it didn't take long, maybe half a year, until we got...bored. Like DVS1 said. Since then I explored many different genres in underground electronic music. For over a year now I am deep into Dub Techno on the day and deep hypnotic groove on the night. Organized the first parties with friends outside and so on. Many people that I now know have taken a similar route. It is literally a lighthouse for people to find and come to electronic music. Some will fall into the rabbit hole quickly, some take more time and probably the majority will go to the next lighthouse.
It’s fun music. There is no wrong or right. I do agree what he said about looking for something else. When I got fed up with dubstep and EDM Trap I discovered Minimal House then Peaktime Techno. Now I’m listening to old breakbeats songs that are older than me then listened to artists like Bicep and overmono who have a similar vibe but with a modern twist. Dance music is supposed to be fun.
In the early 2000s is when I remember DJs coming out of the corner into the front stage. That was a major changing point. Totally agree how it changed the vibe, the focus, and if the crowd even cared about the music.
Hard techno in one guise or another has always existed. The current version that popular heavily borrows from hard style that came from (proper) hardcore before it. Things change and evolve, genres have sub genres, always have done
Very true, I was just thinking the same thing. I've still got records from 20 years ago that would be considered very similar to todays fast techno trend, but obviously wasn't as trendy as it is now. I think what irks some people (DVS1 here, and myself included), is that this style of the techno can sometimes get confused/compared with other kinds of techno, by using the same terminology. For example, it could be like someone saying Led Zeppelin and Metallica play the same music simply because both come under the umbrella 'Rock' music... Personally I don't like the fast techno that's trending these days, and everything that goes along with it. It just doesn't feel like the same techno scene I've been part of for years. I'm hoping the trend doesn't last too long, and evolves into something I prefer...
Me too. It sucks. Everyone is attached to its visuals rather than the music. The worst part is that some artists present themselves as "underground". At least with edm they presented themselves as commercial djs
@@nicolasamaya1021 notice the recent upturn of "model looks" DJs in a supposedly underground scene? 100% sure proof that it's un-saveably commercialised now, fuck that commercial techno BS. Back to the dark sweatboxes with a sweaty as fuck crowd no cameras and actual dancing like nobody is watching.
Progressive house is what John Digweed plays. Have you ever heard the Sasha & John Digweed - Renaissance: The Mix Collection in 1994? One of the best mixes ever Way before DVS1 was Djing
I don´t go out anymore. The last nights it was always 136 bpm or faster. I hate that. I play some acid at home and wait another 10 years. I have the time. What i really can say is that 1990 to 2000 was the better time.
Hard techno was underground in the 90's when it was among the "real techno" scene. Times have changed an the roles have reversed. DVS1 is the underground techno of modern times even though he is "real techno".
One thing that I learned as I got older in the scene, stop trying to convince people what you think is the better music. Back then we shitted on EDM because they packed the festivals & dancefloors and genres like Tech House & Techno didn't really get packed out and was very underground. Now I can't even go to any shows because there is no room to dance. So word of advice, let people go to the music that you don't like, don't try to convince them what you think is good vs shit music, let the dancefloors spread apart.
It’s like what happened to Dubsteps in the early 2000’s. Scrillex and that crowd came along and now everybody thinks dubstep sounds like robots fighting each other.
I'm not in clubs anymore but have heard someone in a comments section. a Jody Wisternoff interview, and now dvs1 here talking about cheesy techno but I'm mot sure what they're referencing.
I dont know if you ever need that Wall of Sound, but yes, the music and the experience should always be the center of a club. I guess anyone who did go to the earlier Techno parties knows that the Dj is just that guy in the corner. Not that we werent important, but the music was the star. I remember moments where the whole club was dancing and I really mean the whole club, the guys at the bar, the door, the manager, the Dj himself, the people in the fucking toilet. That is what good Techno is about.
@@Brandonbraun Oh it is, thats not what I meant. I just enjoyed it most when the sound was not "directional", but felt all around. I guess the best example I can give is the Phonodrome in Hamburg and its dancefloor in the middle of huge walls.
Yeah, they'd fall in there in my opinion. Their style of techno ("big room") is very accessible and designed for massive audiences but they still have some bangers. I consider it a guilty pleasure.
All the shit that are trend and like to be in the mainstream, Techno always supposed to be Underground stuff, music for be just yourself, now you see that every fucking one likes the goddamn techno, but the names that you heard for their mouth are just pure dogshite (Sara Landry, Amelie Lens, Indira Paganotto, Charlotte de Witte, etc).
Thats a good video, thank you for that, but could you please do us a favor and give us more time to read the questions in your next Videos? I always have to pause, what is quite annoying, cheers
Wall of Sound makes a lot of sense in a world where dance music revolves around venal, inflated DJs who spend more time on Instagram than they do mixing when they're behind the decks
The hard techno craze right now makes sense. In the same way “bass music” or “edm” craze came about. It is easy to capture in 15 second clips. It’s practically identical to big festival EDM if you look at it that way. Instagram shorts fuel the generation.
Some of us like heavier music, same with other genres, maybe we listen it for the same reason you dont like it, but that doesnt mean that everything hard is good. Of course there are posers that have no substance to them but who cares...
Thanks man...some clarity for me right now.. latelly I've been listening this "New, fast techno" and I was like..whaat, what is that.. I fucking hate it, it doesn't have any soul to me..
we had a GREAT underground scene in zurich - not so much left of it now. i guess a big part has to do with gentrification, not many cool locations anymore....
Early early days of the Goa scene, was exactly the wall of sound concept. You could never see the dj They just were sat at a table playing dat tapes.. Crowd focused on sound system and each other rather than dj.... Oh how that's changed.
Some interesting opinions here. 💜 Some initial thoughts after a quick first watch. I’m sure they will change. I feel the need to challenge, as it comes across defined and decided, and not open, and asking and encouraging the asking of questions. There is perhaps quite a bit of assumption around ideas alluded to as a collective scene or “industry”, and what it should or shouldn’t be. I’m not sure this thinking applies in the same ways as it might of in the 90’s, if it even did then. Surely balance is something that is found throughout everything and to be defined by everyone? I’m not sure balance is something so definitely defined by a spokesperson, however good their intentions. I always felt the underground was more about intent than it being solely to describe lesser success under typical capitalist ideas. Being commercial, or the intent to be commercial, is often evident in something way before it’s actually commercially successful, and arguably there are those that despite being more well known, still hold an underground ideology, perhaps on some level UR could be considered there? Interesting stuff, and I’m going to watch it again and discuss with others. Ultimately I’m happy to see someone doing something other than the usual talk about themselves and their gear, not that there is anything wrong with that either. 🖤💜
Don't know.. he might have a point, but sounds to me like one of those old guys who want to protect "their own" superior and way more intelligent / underground / etc. genre (or basically their ego) because the other stuff is not the real thing 😅 I do like some good quality techno though, but I actually like it that whenever I go to some local (Rotterdam) techno club every now and then it still has all that good 90s stuff in it that never gets old and you see people from different ages enjoying it. Although I can imagine that might be very different in the USA.
@HuibPiguillet - yes, very different in the states. I could understand how someone that lives elsewhere or in an area where electronic music is less polluted (the Netherlands) could see dvs1 in the way you do. Knowing his work and lifelong advocacy for techno, he really is on point here in regards to the generational cycle of edm.
The real underground... Is actually so underground... That you have to put on a mining helmet before you enter... bring your canary... Bond closely with your fellow miners... Pray that you make it out alive... It's a hard job, but someone's gotta do it 😛
@@popcycles hve you never listened to hardstyle or hard trance or hardcore before? Imagine being a kid born in the 90s. By the time you’re 10 or so and really into music you discover electronic music. And all these different styles. You listen to all of them. Trance. Hardcore. Hardstyle. Techno. Hard house. And you love all of them. One day you decided to become a producer. But you can’t decide what style you will produce. So you decide to just blend all of your influences together and create music that sounds like music ti would want to listen to. This is hard techno. Alignment. Doruksen. Sikoti. Luciid. Dyen. Cltx. CARV. Dica. The list goes on and on. It’s here to stay.
I never in my wildest dreams ever saw hard techno becoming mainstream. So weird! Listening to people like Jeff Mills, Joey Beltram and European artists on A Paul's label decades ago it just seemed impossible. When everyone I know would certainly hate it and now everyone's into it. How on earth? They suddenly 'get it' because it's marketed to them or 'cool'?
Capitalism big eye can see whatever is breaking underground and push it to generate money. Look what hapenned to punk rock. Or feminism. Primark selling femminist t shirt made from underpaid woman in Bangladesh. I loved dark club techno but I hate this mega festival marketplace techno. Bros invaded the scene.
I feel like 2020 got people wanting something different. Something to cut the monotony and something to be a part of. The darker sound also reflected the emotions tied to that year. Just Mt opinion though.
I appreciate your thoughts. I really do. I agree with everything you say in regards to the scene. Lovely to hear. Especially about the underground. I gave a similar take on the underground recently when speaking about the current scene on community radio. They are out there, we are too long in the tooth to know. It's a wonderful thought. When I saw Aslice come along I had the same hope that you articulate. But if you look at it now, it has become a self fulfilling prophesy of DJ/Producers. And not much else. Just DJ/Producers giving more money back to each other. Like a big circle jerk! ;) Sad, but from the outside anyway, looks like it is true.
I am 40 years old and got in to techno as a teenager in the swedish underground. Hardtechno was the sound when i got into this scene. It dominated the techno underground in my area(secret parties out in the woods or in small venues where word of mouth was the promotion), Thomas Krome bitches from hell and wood carver’s nightmare where big tracks I remember from that period. The more soulful deeper music at the time was progressive psytrance in my area of Sweden.
He means Business Techno. Kraviz, De Witte etc etc, playing Plague Raves thru Covid no matter what, Instagram reels, conspicuous tie ins. The more whizz bang laser confetti cannon flouro tutu and massive chunky boots enormo dome, the less I wanna be there 😬
Do you count a track like LA Style - James Brown is dead as real techno? To me that is much closer to the modern hardtechno than the minimal that was everywhere like 15 years ago :)
Yeah, that minimal label is a wide net. Many different styles of "minimal techno" as well. You got Rob Hood Minimal You got DBX Minimal You got Ritchie Hawtin Minimal just a few examples. James Brown is dead is its own style and era too, and demographically, amd nationally where that style was coming from.
I've been listening to techno for almost 20 years now, and I partially agree. I used to fly to Berlin to Tresor (f**k Berghain and the retarded bouncer there) and I used to rave there for 8 hours and not get tired. These days I go to a hard techno (not much other stuff where I live now) and I get tired after 3-4 hours. However I find industrial/dark/hard techno best for work. I just put on headphones and monotnic sounds help me focus much better. But I never liked soulfoul stuff and groovy stuff. Only dark, industrial sounds. Thats why I partially agree. The stuff that he mentions its not everyody's cup of tea and that's ok. Its also techno. Just different subgenre. Stop being such a purist and let other people enjoy what they want.
nico moreno is the best exemple. I like his productions and dj sets, but the dj sets are closer to a hardcore/hardstyle set than a techno one. As well as the new hardtechno productions who are just early hardcore/hardstyle with some rawstyle kicks I would say. Artists like Nico Moreno, Dyen, jacidorex and many others make their living by posting on social media to have exposure and get more dates. 30 seconds of a 3h techno set will look boring, 30 seconds of a hardcore/techno set will look crazy and will bring people to your events. You will understand more what is said in the video and what I explained by looking into the instagram pages or youtube sets of those artists, not by listening to their productions actually
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I KEEP SAYING TO MY FRIENDS! One example of a 1000, Yesterday we went to watch nox vahn. I like his music. WTF! The guy doesn’t have eyes to see the dance floor? No feelings? No harmony with us or anything? He is the peak of the night and the last and everyone is waiting for him, ZERO! Slow bpm, with even tracks that are originally produced much faster. How?? Add to that that his entire two hours he’s mixing intros with outros. Amazing choice of drugs, but zero harmony between them and zero mixing. Imagine that we hear an entire track until the last beat of it. How is he a producer without knowing the energies existing in a track. Or knowing any kind of energy whatsoever. He has no idea that one track can be mixed from different points. This makes me think, is he just copying waveforms and just changing the tunes?
Speed and hard techno is the hype like minimal was hype 15 years ago. Tiktok techno is fun, It's like junk food, I really like it but is a quick shot of dopamine. You physically can't support like 8 hours of 147+ bpm and harsh sounds
Music is a constantly evolving art form that reflects the changes in society over time. There are artists who resist these changes and instead try to maintain a narrow definition of what is "better" or "worse" in their genre. This is how I see DVS1, as someone who is resistant to change and wants to act as a gatekeeper for the genre.
The "new" version of hardstyle isnt new, this is a repeat of the early 90's hard techno/gabber styles. Artists & DJ's are supposed to have opinions as that is how they define what they do & sets their style. It would be worse for a Dj to continually jump to every new trend on tik tok than to make a statement about what they actually stand for. There is no gatekeeping when the music is available on mainstream sites like YT. You dont have to like someone opinion, but this BS gatekeeping idea is just you not liking someone elses opinion
Tik tok techno. I feel like it started gaining traction in the mainstrwam in 2020. People were stuck at home, bored, and wanted something new. Nothing wrong with it but it's just another thing that's part of the status quo. The thing i dont like about it is the whole costume/image thing. Instead of glitter and neon, its blade night club cosplay.
Tastes change man. Bleeps and bloops just don’t cut it for people anymore. When I go to clubs i want my ears to be transported to another dimension and frankly Detroit techno just doesn’t do it for me anymore like it used to. I grew out of it as opposed to what dsv1 claims. It just became too boring.
@@datdude89 Classic Detroit techno is not the only underground techno that exists and that DVS1 is referring to... So much more to try instead of today's hard techno Hayes recordings, SK11, Polegroup, Warmup, Mord to name big labels, Mathys Lenne for an artist example, etc
@@Panlado people who don’t like hard techno just can’t dance to those bpms. They always say it’s repetitive and boring but that’s how these artists sound yo me. I’ve listened to all of them and it doesn’t make me want to move at all. Techno snobs need to realize what they think is the hottest tracks to other people sound like bleeps and bloops.
@@datdude89 of course it does, true underground won’t please to the mass, as opposed to nowadays hard techno with cheesy remixes, enormous breakdown, buildups and drops… like EDM
i agree and have the exact same opinion as the legend himself. Theres this fad with this speedy, psy trance sounding music they call "techno" and they have this whole trend of girls wearing skimpy lace black outfits and raving with people on these instagram posts....all fake.
Dance music has continually eaten its own over the last 40 years or so. Out with the old and now this (insert newest sub-genre) is hot. Often literally using samples of sound reimagined over and over and over creating completely many different genres each decade. The wall of sound concept is certainly not new and it's beginnings can be traced back to the 70s when the owners of many larger discos realize that custom sound systems were required to create the environment so that the pioneering DJs could take the listeners on a musical journey which has been the bedrock concept for any decent Dj since turntables were invented. The young DJs and producers overtime become the old DJs and producers. The relevancy of any piece music lies within the listener themselves and everybody has a favorite song of the moment. Music snobbery tends to be the norm when a person is younger but if that person continues to create or explore music throughout their lives they learn to respect and understand the foundations that are truly the history of all dance music and it's thousands of ever evolving sub genres.
The wall of sound goes back to the phil spector. He's the OG of that style of mixing. Ask around, before Phil came on the scene music was mixed quite differently. The dude revolutionized recorded music. But he also killed his landlady. 😂
Hard techno is the most boring techno genre. Not talking about peak time/driving or raw/deep/hypnotic. I like Ben Sims, Coyu, Oscar Mulero who play so called oldschool techno (raw/deep/hypnotic) and they are best, but even their mixes are similar and moat tracks lack of groove, bass lines. This is why peak time/driving/hard (which is not hard) techno is more versatile and you have more than just business Drumcode which sounds the same.Try to listen to amazing project like Drunken Kong. Their tracks and mixes are amazing. Also what I love about peak time/driving/hard is that it can sound funky, melodic like Sven Vath mixes
Man, can you give me some of these "most boring techno genre" artists? The names? You didn't mention any. I want to hear what this boring "Hard Techno" sounds like. All you mentioned was what you liked, but didn't mention what you didn't. Would be helpful to understand and illustrate your point.
modern hard techno is just hardstyle, 2004 to 2010 hard techno/schranz was amazing, boris s, felix krocher, o.b.i., arkus. p, weichentechnikk, mario ranieri, viperxxl, and so many more. ngoht, kashmir, k2. it used to be so good, and tiktok ruined it, just like breakcore.
Let's just accept that shit popularized on TikTok will probably always suck. You're not forced to party with 18 y/o hard techno lovers. But please stop gatekeeping "techno" or electronic music in general.
Fuck that. Techno should be kept secret and always underground. We've all seen what opening this shit up to the masses with cell phones in hands did to the scene. Keep that shit in a dark and dirty warehouse, as it was intended to.
@@drumcode420 bro techno as a genre hasn't been underground for 40 years. It's literally the most well known electronic genre, together with house. Just avoid venues and events where the masses go, and go underground parties with heads instead. Problem solved.
'hard techno' is fast food plastic, mating prompts for hormone-blasted teens. give me DVS1, with heavy atmospheres and expanding soundstage. I miss watching him dance the whole time, always pumping. and now there's the whole festival-career-arc bullshit thing, ewww. dirty and raw, or get off me. thast smile, what a soul.
I understand his point. I‘ve heard im live multiple times and he truly is a master at his craft however music changes overtime so did rap music. There is no rapper today like 50, nate dogg, mobb deep, even snoop in his gfunk era.. today you have lil this and lil that and they all do weird homosexual things and they are all pure drug addicts. Back then the rapper would be in the game and not touching that yayo day and night. Music changes and we either change with it or don‘t. But i must agree 2016/17 were my last raves and they seemt normal. This year in July I went to one of the best clubs in the world (Gare Porto, where I also heard this great man before) and all were dressed as they came straight from berghain, all danced the same.. I call them the tik tok generation because they all do what the other 1million people do as well but thats just how it is. Im in love with techno since the early 2000‘s and still like the fast paced hard techno (not schranz) and I just have to ignore thos little fuckers im on my world anyway
I've been listening to techno for 20 years, electronics since 30 years. Including more obscure stuff. House, techno, goatrance, IDM etc... I went to a tiktok techno party last week and still had a lot of fun and the vibe was good. Everyone was a kid once and we all have to start somewhere. There's no shame in liking hard'techno'
I‘m so happy to see that DVS1 keeps speaking to the public about this, he shaped and is shaping my connection to the music and the scene so much.
As a 48 year old that's been in the scene since I was in college, this guy sums it up. I'm purchasing my first cheap mixing deck soon and can't believe I'll be able to do this at home and for my friends one day. This also sums up why groups like book club radio are doing so well now too. Pure class, and keep it coming, and big love and see you all on the dancefloor ❤
the master speaking the truth, thanks for the amazing talk Zak!
your surname could scare, but you're in the right techno side😅
Nah just old man yelling at clouds
hardly@@datdude89
@@datdude89 nah man, living in Germany as a producer and dj this hard techno is shit. It's fine if you don't know electronic music, but every other genre is better. Want fast but rhythmic with vocals? listen to trance. Want hard and heavy? listen to industrial or hardcore techno. Want rhythm and dance? Listen to house or breaks/garage. Want vocal pop remixes with some groove? Listen to Tech house. Want to dance hard and sweat out all your energy? Listen to dnb or bassline. Want just good techno? Listen to techno. Literally every genre is better than hard techno. DVS1 is right- it's a gateway for young people to get into the music, but if you stay in hard techno you get bored after a few parties.
It's just the nature of the beast when you make music to be generic. It gets stale.
This video is my introduction to DVS1, what a thoughtful guy
such a humble guy
Always a pleasure listening to his discourse. Such a genuine dude!
Thank you to all involved for sharing this! I enjoyed hearing these insightful thoughts from DVS1.
I reckon authentic 'underground' would prefer not to be labeled as such, or labeled/categorized at all, for that matter. They care less about categorization (side tangent: categorization in itself is partly what is fucked up in our society, it simplifies human-made concepts so it creates convenience but it also creates divisiveness and wars...) and the 'underground' of my dreams rather care more about community, true artistic expression and freedom from mainstream media, and simply freedom, in all its essence, for the love of it.
I'll leave this little nugget of wisdom from Alan Watts, open for any reader's interpretation:
"The world is a musical phenomenon. Good music never refers to anything except the music itself."
I've been listening to electronic music since the '80s, after growing up on UK punk and alternative music as a kid. I'm 55 now and still go out weekly to enjoy electronic music - the secret to staying young! 😊 Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate most genres and styles, including hard techno. In my opinion, there’s good and not-so-good music in every genre, and taste is always subjective. What one person sees as underground, another might view as commercial.
While there’s definitely commercial or soulless music out there, I also think each generation can be quick to criticize new twists and trends. BPM trends have shifted up and down over time, but nowadays there’s a broader mix of styles and BPMs coexisting. We can clearly see commercialization’s impact, but I wouldn’t define music solely by its speed or style. Ultimately, it’s all about personal taste. I love hearing how music continues to evolve while still being self-referential to its roots.
He is absolutely on point with the hard techno stuff. Clubbing started for me past covid and the first thing to find which took my interest was hard techno. A lot of my friends followed. But it didn't take long, maybe half a year, until we got...bored. Like DVS1 said. Since then I explored many different genres in underground electronic music. For over a year now I am deep into Dub Techno on the day and deep hypnotic groove on the night. Organized the first parties with friends outside and so on. Many people that I now know have taken a similar route.
It is literally a lighthouse for people to find and come to electronic music. Some will fall into the rabbit hole quickly, some take more time and probably the majority will go to the next lighthouse.
Thanks Xceed for sharing your loving point of view on the music and the people in it~
It’s fun music. There is no wrong or right. I do agree what he said about looking for something else. When I got fed up with dubstep and EDM Trap I discovered Minimal House then Peaktime Techno. Now I’m listening to old breakbeats songs that are older than me then listened to artists like Bicep and overmono who have a similar vibe but with a modern twist. Dance music is supposed to be fun.
Peaktime techno? It's a Beatport tag, not a genre, no?
@ it’s a sub genre. Just like there is a sub genre called Big Room Techno. House has several sub genres. So does rock music, rap etc.
In the early 2000s is when I remember DJs coming out of the corner into the front stage. That was a major changing point. Totally agree how it changed the vibe, the focus, and if the crowd even cared about the music.
Thank you for speaking out of my SOUL!!
Hard techno in one guise or another has always existed. The current version that popular heavily borrows from hard style that came from (proper) hardcore before it. Things change and evolve, genres have sub genres, always have done
Very true, I was just thinking the same thing.
I've still got records from 20 years ago that would be considered very similar to todays fast techno trend, but obviously wasn't as trendy as it is now.
I think what irks some people (DVS1 here, and myself included), is that this style of the techno can sometimes get confused/compared with other kinds of techno, by using the same terminology.
For example, it could be like someone saying Led Zeppelin and Metallica play the same music simply because both come under the umbrella 'Rock' music...
Personally I don't like the fast techno that's trending these days, and everything that goes along with it.
It just doesn't feel like the same techno scene I've been part of for years.
I'm hoping the trend doesn't last too long, and evolves into something I prefer...
eh, it isn't new @@Techy1210
it has been around way longer than what you say too
@@aaof-d-mio-fv2fb I didn't mention when anything started.
Learn to comprehend what you read...
You put exactly on words what I was perceiving. Thanks for sharing your great understanding!
For me what people are calling "melodic techno" right now, is basically progressive house with a tiny edge of trance thrown in.
God I hate that sound and the crowd so much 😂
Me too. It sucks. Everyone is attached to its visuals rather than the music. The worst part is that some artists present themselves as "underground". At least with edm they presented themselves as commercial djs
@@nicolasamaya1021 notice the recent upturn of "model looks" DJs in a supposedly underground scene? 100% sure proof that it's un-saveably commercialised now, fuck that commercial techno BS. Back to the dark sweatboxes with a sweaty as fuck crowd no cameras and actual dancing like nobody is watching.
@@aikighost the instagram effect. Everybody now is a dj, expert, podcaster, model and influencer. Dark times we live
Progressive house is what John Digweed plays. Have you ever heard the Sasha & John Digweed - Renaissance: The Mix Collection in 1994?
One of the best mixes ever
Way before DVS1 was Djing
this is truth. nice that he speaks out about techno. completely agreeing with him.
Absolutely spot on about "Techno" today, it's pop techno
this is what you call “artistic vision” 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I love the bit between Breakbeat D&B and Dark Tek
I don´t go out anymore. The last nights it was always 136 bpm or faster. I hate that. I play some acid at home and wait another 10 years. I have the time. What i really can say is that 1990 to 2000 was the better time.
Truly love your view and philosophy, absolutely true wisdom here. Thanks man!
Someone who gets it. Refreshing.
Hard techno was underground in the 90's when it was among the "real techno" scene. Times have changed an the roles have reversed. DVS1 is the underground techno of modern times even though he is "real techno".
What’s the last track played in the background?
DVS1 - Lower Wacker Drive
Interesting take. I agree to a bunch and disagree to a bunch of things. Good talk!
One thing that I learned as I got older in the scene, stop trying to convince people what you think is the better music. Back then we shitted on EDM because they packed the festivals & dancefloors and genres like Tech House & Techno didn't really get packed out and was very underground. Now I can't even go to any shows because there is no room to dance. So word of advice, let people go to the music that you don't like, don't try to convince them what you think is good vs shit music, let the dancefloors spread apart.
He was talking to James Hype hahaha
So happy he's still dropping truthbombs, bouncing polyrhythms over polyrhythms and produces shit that one never heard before.
It’s so adorable you think no one has ever heard polyrhythms outside of Detroit style techno. Bless your heart
DVS1 is great but i wouldnt say he's an artist that does what hasnt been heard. He's not a trailblazer but he's really solid at what he does
Spot on with all topics.
It’s like what happened to Dubsteps in the early 2000’s. Scrillex and that crowd came along and now everybody thinks dubstep sounds like robots fighting each other.
Fantastic video
Please post the Tracklist of the Background music.
DVS1 speaking the truth
I'm not in clubs anymore but have heard someone in a comments section. a Jody Wisternoff interview, and now dvs1 here talking about cheesy techno but I'm mot sure what they're referencing.
Pop Techno, love it!
😂 I’m gonna start saying that
Business techno
It’s so true man
Anyone who disagrees has never been to a DVS1 set.
I dont know if you ever need that Wall of Sound, but yes, the music and the experience should always be the center of a club. I guess anyone who did go to the earlier Techno parties knows that the Dj is just that guy in the corner. Not that we werent important, but the music was the star. I remember moments where the whole club was dancing and I really mean the whole club, the guys at the bar, the door, the manager, the Dj himself, the people in the fucking toilet. That is what good Techno is about.
sound is crucial. a banging system demands respect. music first, but sound is very very important.
@@Brandonbraun Oh it is, thats not what I meant. I just enjoyed it most when the sound was not "directional", but felt all around. I guess the best example I can give is the Phonodrome in Hamburg and its dancefloor in the middle of huge walls.
oh for sure! that's a proper experience :)@@dodo7ger
DVS-Kant
*So which DJ's would fall into this category? Charlotte de Witte, Amelie Lens?*
Yeah, they'd fall in there in my opinion. Their style of techno ("big room") is very accessible and designed for massive audiences but they still have some bangers. I consider it a guilty pleasure.
Amelie Lens techno is more harsher/has more of an underground vibe/edge as opposed to Charlotte De Witte whos style is maybe slightly more mainstream?
All the shit that are trend and like to be in the mainstream, Techno always supposed to be Underground stuff, music for be just yourself, now you see that every fucking one likes the goddamn techno, but the names that you heard for their mouth are just pure dogshite (Sara Landry, Amelie Lens, Indira Paganotto, Charlotte de Witte, etc).
Try klangkuenstler, he's probably one of the most known
Thats a good video, thank you for that, but could you please do us a favor and give us more time to read the questions in your next Videos? I always have to pause, what is quite annoying, cheers
Wall of Sound makes a lot of sense in a world where dance music revolves around venal, inflated DJs who spend more time on Instagram than they do mixing when they're behind the decks
Djs matter, I can't count how many times I've been to an party and the DJs were playing to themselves instead of for the crowd.
Thats often a promoter issue in booking the wrong DJ's. You cant blame a DJ for being themself
DJ always supposed to play the music that they like, not for your delight. 🤡
Best Techno 1990 - 1994 💥
85-88.
@@popcycles that's damn early !!
Trax , DJ International , KMS , Transmat & Jack Trax etc.....
So many wise words!❤
I was thinking the same way about Scooter. I wouldn't find hardstyle and hardcore without Hyper Hyper
Techno Master ❤
The hard techno craze right now makes sense. In the same way “bass music” or “edm” craze came about. It is easy to capture in 15 second clips. It’s practically identical to big festival EDM if you look at it that way. Instagram shorts fuel the generation.
Hats off
05:45 A figure on a stage throwing heartsigns like a clown...😂
8:52 im agree
US is just 25 years behind on any harder style music.
It's like a Christopher Guest documentary. 😂
AMEN!
Some of us like heavier music, same with other genres, maybe we listen it for the same reason you dont like it, but that doesnt mean that everything hard is good.
Of course there are posers that have no substance to them but who cares...
Couldnt agree more! They did this with DnB, and then Jungle, then Dubstep and Techno was a few years ago. And tik tok didnt help 😅
Thanks man...some clarity for me right now.. latelly I've been listening this "New, fast techno" and I was like..whaat, what is that.. I fucking hate it, it doesn't have any soul to me..
so true... thank you. :)
Where the fuck is the whole interview?
we had a GREAT underground scene in zurich - not so much left of it now. i guess a big part has to do with gentrification, not many cool locations anymore....
I’ve been saying current “Techno” is today’s “Deep House” but same thing
Preach
Early early days of the Goa scene, was exactly the wall of sound concept. You could never see the dj
They just were sat at a table playing dat tapes.. Crowd focused on sound system and each other rather than dj.... Oh how that's changed.
Some interesting opinions here. 💜
Some initial thoughts after a quick first watch. I’m sure they will change. I feel the need to challenge, as it comes across defined and decided, and not open, and asking and encouraging the asking of questions.
There is perhaps quite a bit of assumption around ideas alluded to as a collective scene or “industry”, and what it should or shouldn’t be. I’m not sure this thinking applies in the same ways as it might of in the 90’s, if it even did then.
Surely balance is something that is found throughout everything and to be defined by everyone? I’m not sure balance is something so definitely defined by a spokesperson, however good their intentions.
I always felt the underground was more about intent than it being solely to describe lesser success under typical capitalist ideas. Being commercial, or the intent to be commercial, is often evident in something way before it’s actually commercially successful, and arguably there are those that despite being more well known, still hold an underground ideology, perhaps on some level UR could be considered there?
Interesting stuff, and I’m going to watch it again and discuss with others.
Ultimately I’m happy to see someone doing something other than the usual talk about themselves and their gear, not that there is anything wrong with that either. 🖤💜
Don't know.. he might have a point, but sounds to me like one of those old guys who want to protect "their own" superior and way more intelligent / underground / etc. genre (or basically their ego) because the other stuff is not the real thing 😅
I do like some good quality techno though, but I actually like it that whenever I go to some local (Rotterdam) techno club every now and then it still has all that good 90s stuff in it that never gets old and you see people from different ages enjoying it. Although I can imagine that might be very different in the USA.
@@AUDIOPHILEHARDCOREeducate yourself bozo
@@AUDIOPHILEHARDCORE DVS1 lack of relevance lmfaooo
@HuibPiguillet - yes, very different in the states. I could understand how someone that lives elsewhere or in an area where electronic music is less polluted (the Netherlands) could see dvs1 in the way you do. Knowing his work and lifelong advocacy for techno, he really is on point here in regards to the generational cycle of edm.
@@Zinojnall the big cities in the US have the “underground” or “pure” techno scene. Just not as big as Amsterdam or Berlin obviously.
The real underground... Is actually so underground... That you have to put on a mining helmet before you enter... bring your canary... Bond closely with your fellow miners... Pray that you make it out alive... It's a hard job, but someone's gotta do it 😛
All respect to DVS but LOL hard techno has some serious 90’s roots. Underground Techno was fast then.
@@popcycles hve you never listened to hardstyle or hard trance or hardcore before? Imagine being a kid born in the 90s. By the time you’re 10 or so and really into music you discover electronic music. And all these different styles. You listen to all of them. Trance. Hardcore. Hardstyle. Techno. Hard house. And you love all of them. One day you decided to become a producer. But you can’t decide what style you will produce. So you decide to just blend all of your influences together and create music that sounds like music ti would want to listen to. This is hard techno. Alignment. Doruksen. Sikoti. Luciid. Dyen. Cltx. CARV. Dica. The list goes on and on. It’s here to stay.
Dave Clarke , Jeff mills, circuit breaker on plus8 records, beast tamer on drum code. Etc etc .
@@brianreisert6563 amen
I never in my wildest dreams ever saw hard techno becoming mainstream. So weird! Listening to people like Jeff Mills, Joey Beltram and European artists on A Paul's label decades ago it just seemed impossible. When everyone I know would certainly hate it and now everyone's into it. How on earth? They suddenly 'get it' because it's marketed to them or 'cool'?
social media
Capitalism big eye can see whatever is breaking underground and push it to generate money. Look what hapenned to punk rock. Or feminism. Primark selling femminist t shirt made from underpaid woman in Bangladesh. I loved dark club techno but I hate this mega festival marketplace techno. Bros invaded the scene.
Pandemic...?? Covid stucking in confined space with deprived anger and hold up emotions that's cause the rise of it..
😢 Techno is now mainstream making $$$ and views.
I feel like 2020 got people wanting something different. Something to cut the monotony and something to be a part of. The darker sound also reflected the emotions tied to that year. Just Mt opinion though.
every year is the same pattern. raw will always be raw. the cookie cut will be cookie cut. tourist come and go.
I appreciate your thoughts. I really do. I agree with everything you say in regards to the scene. Lovely to hear. Especially about the underground. I gave a similar take on the underground recently when speaking about the current scene on community radio. They are out there, we are too long in the tooth to know. It's a wonderful thought.
When I saw Aslice come along I had the same hope that you articulate.
But if you look at it now, it has become a self fulfilling prophesy of DJ/Producers. And not much else.
Just DJ/Producers giving more money back to each other. Like a big circle jerk! ;)
Sad, but from the outside anyway, looks like it is true.
I am 40 years old and got in to techno as a teenager in the swedish underground. Hardtechno was the sound when i got into this scene. It dominated the techno underground in my area(secret parties out in the woods or in small venues where word of mouth was the promotion), Thomas Krome bitches from hell and wood carver’s nightmare where big tracks I remember from that period. The more soulful deeper music at the time was progressive psytrance in my area of Sweden.
but the wood carver was played at 128 to 132 and not 140....
It all comes down to the track selection. Every time. DJ's will become a distant memory in the future, but electronic music shall prevail.
❤
He means Business Techno. Kraviz, De Witte etc etc, playing Plague Raves thru Covid no matter what, Instagram reels, conspicuous tie ins. The more whizz bang laser confetti cannon flouro tutu and massive chunky boots enormo dome, the less I wanna be there 😬
Nina is way beyond most of the other famous girls artistically. At least she created a unique sound with Trip.
Do you count a track like LA Style - James Brown is dead as real techno? To me that is much closer to the modern hardtechno than the minimal that was everywhere like 15 years ago :)
Belgium Big beat
Yeah, that minimal label is a wide net. Many different styles of "minimal techno" as well.
You got Rob Hood Minimal
You got DBX Minimal
You got Ritchie Hawtin Minimal
just a few examples.
James Brown is dead is its own style and era too, and demographically, amd nationally where that style was coming from.
someone point me towards this mainstream hard techno he's talking about? I have no idea
Go look at a lot of the boilerroom sets of late, you can find some there
Verknipt
@@sticktothefacts8905 more like Verknipt. I don’t see a lot of hard techno on boiler room.
Sara landry
I've been listening to techno for almost 20 years now, and I partially agree. I used to fly to Berlin to Tresor (f**k Berghain and the retarded bouncer there) and I used to rave there for 8 hours and not get tired. These days I go to a hard techno (not much other stuff where I live now) and I get tired after 3-4 hours. However I find industrial/dark/hard techno best for work. I just put on headphones and monotnic sounds help me focus much better. But I never liked soulfoul stuff and groovy stuff. Only dark, industrial sounds. Thats why I partially agree. The stuff that he mentions its not everyody's cup of tea and that's ok. Its also techno. Just different subgenre. Stop being such a purist and let other people enjoy what they want.
👍😎👍
What’s an example of this hard techno he’s talking about??
I’ve been listening to underground techno for 30 years and I’m out of the loop.
nico moreno is the best exemple. I like his productions and dj sets, but the dj sets are closer to a hardcore/hardstyle set than a techno one. As well as the new hardtechno productions who are just early hardcore/hardstyle with some rawstyle kicks I would say. Artists like Nico Moreno, Dyen, jacidorex and many others make their living by posting on social media to have exposure and get more dates. 30 seconds of a 3h techno set will look boring, 30 seconds of a hardcore/techno set will look crazy and will bring people to your events. You will understand more what is said in the video and what I explained by looking into the instagram pages or youtube sets of those artists, not by listening to their productions actually
@@jeje7560 That just sounds like what us oldies would call hardcore. Didn't like it back in the 90's and still don't like it now :D
This guy is to me but giving off big Gate Keeper vibes
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I KEEP SAYING TO MY FRIENDS! One example of a 1000, Yesterday we went to watch nox vahn. I like his music. WTF! The guy doesn’t have eyes to see the dance floor? No feelings? No harmony with us or anything? He is the peak of the night and the last and everyone is waiting for him, ZERO! Slow bpm, with even tracks that are originally produced much faster. How?? Add to that that his entire two hours he’s mixing intros with outros. Amazing choice of drugs, but zero harmony between them and zero mixing. Imagine that we hear an entire track until the last beat of it. How is he a producer without knowing the energies existing in a track. Or knowing any kind of energy whatsoever. He has no idea that one track can be mixed from different points. This makes me think, is he just copying waveforms and just changing the tunes?
Above & beyond omg. Disastrous
Speed and hard techno is the hype like minimal was hype 15 years ago. Tiktok techno is fun, It's like junk food, I really like it but is a quick shot of dopamine. You physically can't support like 8 hours of 147+ bpm and harsh sounds
…
It’s okay that it exists
Just don’t put us on the same category.
I love you Zak ❤
Music is a constantly evolving art form that reflects the changes in society over time. There are artists who resist these changes and instead try to maintain a narrow definition of what is "better" or "worse" in their genre. This is how I see DVS1, as someone who is resistant to change and wants to act as a gatekeeper for the genre.
Dude’s been playing the 4x4 2008-2011 Berlin sound for years and acts like that is THE TECHNO
The "new" version of hardstyle isnt new, this is a repeat of the early 90's hard techno/gabber styles. Artists & DJ's are supposed to have opinions as that is how they define what they do & sets their style. It would be worse for a Dj to continually jump to every new trend on tik tok than to make a statement about what they actually stand for. There is no gatekeeping when the music is available on mainstream sites like YT. You dont have to like someone opinion, but this BS gatekeeping idea is just you not liking someone elses opinion
Cope harder😂 New mainstream tiktok rave is pure trash
Tik tok techno. I feel like it started gaining traction in the mainstrwam in 2020. People were stuck at home, bored, and wanted something new. Nothing wrong with it but it's just another thing that's part of the status quo. The thing i dont like about it is the whole costume/image thing. Instead of glitter and neon, its blade night club cosplay.
Getting old is tough huh?
@@datdude89 hm?
@@briangarcia8384 yeah hearing and comprehension skills are the first to go.
Nah UKG is the wave
I miss Detroit techno being played on a club night.
Now it seems it is peak time techno all night
Tastes change man. Bleeps and bloops just don’t cut it for people anymore. When I go to clubs i want my ears to be transported to another dimension and frankly Detroit techno just doesn’t do it for me anymore like it used to. I grew out of it as opposed to what dsv1 claims. It just became too boring.
@@datdude89 Classic Detroit techno is not the only underground techno that exists and that DVS1 is referring to... So much more to try instead of today's hard techno
Hayes recordings, SK11, Polegroup, Warmup, Mord to name big labels, Mathys Lenne for an artist example, etc
@@Panlado people who don’t like hard techno just can’t dance to those bpms. They always say it’s repetitive and boring but that’s how these artists sound yo me. I’ve listened to all of them and it doesn’t make me want to move at all. Techno snobs need to realize what they think is the hottest tracks to other people sound like bleeps and bloops.
@@datdude89 of course it does, true underground won’t please to the mass, as opposed to nowadays hard techno with cheesy remixes, enormous breakdown, buildups and drops… like EDM
@@Panlado or maybe the music you listen to is boring. Maybe it’s underground because it just isn’t that good.
i agree and have the exact same opinion as the legend himself. Theres this fad with this speedy, psy trance sounding music they call "techno" and they have this whole trend of girls wearing skimpy lace black outfits and raving with people on these instagram posts....all fake.
Dance music has continually eaten its own over the last 40 years or so. Out with the old and now this (insert newest sub-genre) is hot. Often literally using samples of sound reimagined over and over and over creating completely many different genres each decade. The wall of sound concept is certainly not new and it's beginnings can be traced back to the 70s when the owners of many larger discos realize that custom sound systems were required to create the environment so that the pioneering DJs could take the listeners on a musical journey which has been the bedrock concept for any decent Dj since turntables were invented.
The young DJs and producers overtime become the old DJs and producers. The relevancy of any piece music lies within the listener themselves and everybody has a favorite song of the moment. Music snobbery tends to be the norm when a person is younger but if that person continues to create or explore music throughout their lives they learn to respect and understand the foundations that are truly the history of all dance music and it's thousands of ever evolving sub genres.
pure yap
The wall of sound goes back to the phil spector. He's the OG of that style of mixing. Ask around, before Phil came on the scene music was mixed quite differently. The dude revolutionized recorded music. But he also killed his landlady. 😂
I think we should continue to ignore the fact that he looks like a bald Daniel Craig.
eh hard techno is literally not new ?
it's not new but it's never been this popular, honestly its not even that hard, it's just alot of folks are playing 140+ now
Hard techno is the most boring techno genre. Not talking about peak time/driving or raw/deep/hypnotic. I like Ben Sims, Coyu, Oscar Mulero who play so called oldschool techno (raw/deep/hypnotic) and they are best, but even their mixes are similar and moat tracks lack of groove, bass lines. This is why peak time/driving/hard (which is not hard) techno is more versatile and you have more than just business Drumcode which sounds the same.Try to listen to amazing project like Drunken Kong. Their tracks and mixes are amazing. Also what I love about peak time/driving/hard is that it can sound funky, melodic like Sven Vath mixes
Man, can you give me some of these "most boring techno genre" artists? The names? You didn't mention any. I want to hear what this boring "Hard Techno" sounds like.
All you mentioned was what you liked, but didn't mention what you didn't. Would be helpful to understand and illustrate your point.
@@popcyclesMost boring fast crap you can hear on HOR
@@EugeakaEugene What's HOR? Please and thank you!
Psytrance forever :)
Electronic dance music needs more PLUR and less gatekeeping
Disagree, PLUR is fine but it definitely needs less half assed "artists"
modern hard techno is just hardstyle, 2004 to 2010 hard techno/schranz was amazing, boris s, felix krocher, o.b.i., arkus. p, weichentechnikk, mario ranieri, viperxxl, and so many more. ngoht, kashmir, k2. it used to be so good, and tiktok ruined it, just like breakcore.
Let's just accept that shit popularized on TikTok will probably always suck. You're not forced to party with 18 y/o hard techno lovers. But please stop gatekeeping "techno" or electronic music in general.
Fuck that. Techno should be kept secret and always underground. We've all seen what opening this shit up to the masses with cell phones in hands did to the scene. Keep that shit in a dark and dirty warehouse, as it was intended to.
@@drumcode420 bro techno as a genre hasn't been underground for 40 years. It's literally the most well known electronic genre, together with house. Just avoid venues and events where the masses go, and go underground parties with heads instead. Problem solved.
'hard techno' is fast food plastic, mating prompts for hormone-blasted teens. give me DVS1, with heavy atmospheres and expanding soundstage. I miss watching him dance the whole time, always pumping. and now there's the whole festival-career-arc bullshit thing, ewww. dirty and raw, or get off me.
thast smile, what a soul.
He is talking real. Techno drugs and shamanism
it feels like nobody is able to put in the effort to create complextro bangers like around 2011
I could do it, want to collaborate?
@@SebastianGrantElKiva yeah lets try ...whick daw do you use?
@@snubdawg1386 I can do whatever but Logic I have used for a while. Stem bouncing is fine with me!
I understand his point. I‘ve heard im live multiple times and he truly is a master at his craft however music changes overtime so did rap music. There is no rapper today like 50, nate dogg, mobb deep, even snoop in his gfunk era.. today you have lil this and lil that and they all do weird homosexual things and they are all pure drug addicts. Back then the rapper would be in the game and not touching that yayo day and night. Music changes and we either change with it or don‘t.
But i must agree 2016/17 were my last raves and they seemt normal. This year in July I went to one of the best clubs in the world (Gare Porto, where I also heard this great man before) and all were dressed as they came straight from berghain, all danced the same.. I call them the tik tok generation because they all do what the other 1million people do as well but thats just how it is.
Im in love with techno since the early 2000‘s and still like the fast paced hard techno (not schranz) and I just have to ignore thos little fuckers im on my world anyway
I've been listening to techno for 20 years, electronics since 30 years. Including more obscure stuff. House, techno, goatrance, IDM etc... I went to a tiktok techno party last week and still had a lot of fun and the vibe was good. Everyone was a kid once and we all have to start somewhere. There's no shame in liking hard'techno'
House and techno are weird homosexual things originally, please do your research
@@recentlyhannahfound the leftoid😂