Yep you don't count Kinzo because in truth he is dead in all games. So that makes it 15 people (with shannon and kanon erased too), but with Sayo it's 16 people. If Erika joins it's 17... It's a genius creation if r07
@@ChikyuuKun Not exactly. Humans are physical bodies. 16 living physical bodies. Dead Kinzo. Dead Erika. Thus, as Erika says she is 18th Human. They are 17 people. One physical body has two personas, Shannon and Kanon. BEATRICE is a formless "witch" who isn't on the Board until Kanon or Shannon alternate. It is why Erika disappears when BEATRICE shoots her. She exists because of BERNKASTEL's MIracles (The Forgers believing she could have ended up on the island) It is why Erika doesn't affect the first four games.
Rewatching this after all these years after fully absorbing the 'truth', makes me realize just how risky of a fight this was for Beatrice. Erika only needed to say a few words or sentences at best to win. She already got the wordplay trick, too bad she wasn't keen enough to understand just how deeply that riddle runs for this fight. And well, for most of the games. Which makes her fight with Battler at the Manga version of Twilight all the more incredible.
If anything, this was Beatrices attempt to see if Erika really figured out the mystery or if she had simply solved the locked room problems. Knowing the culprit and their motives makes this "logic error" easily solvable. If Erika really knew, she'd have solved this on turn one, and at that point there wouldnt be anything anyone could have done anyways, since Erika would have grasped the truth regardless.
Beatrice said three bodies *went into the room*. She evaded Erika's definition check by contextualizing her query which Erika failed to notice. This means "body" is not equal to "person". That's why both the final red truths were possible. Both of them are legit. With Erika included, there are both 17 and 18 people on the island as Kanon is considered a person by narrative too and the number of bodies is also a valid count. Both truths coincide in the world of Umineko. The irony is that Erika has just realised that two contradictory truths can exist on the witch's gameboard, yet she was defeated by the very same fact.
Didn't they opposed person and body tho ? Shannon and Kanon being 2 persons but one body, and Erika being dead when reaching the island, she's 1 body but 0 person, which makes 17 bodies and 17 person, thus not allowing Erika being present and sending her back to her original state : dead.
@@sha1060 18 bodies and 17 persons. Kinzo's body which is always burnt to a crisp to hide when he truly died, and thus does not count as a person, but as a 'human'. Erika's body was either brought to the island, or was washed ashore and used during the games to obscure when Shannon died during one of the games, making her the 18th 'human' but not a person in the terms of the game.
@@mmarage1 Battler used Golden Truth to allow Kinzo to exist. He's dead but he IS on Rokkenjima. Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica, Eva, Hideyoshi, George, Rosa, Maria, Rudolph, Kyrie, Battler, Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Shannon/Kanon/Culprit. That is 17 people. Erika makes 18.
Erika is my favourite!! Was i the only one rooting for her the entire episode 5 and 6? XD She is seriously so badass! I loved watching her reason things out!
Poor Erika... "Repeat it: there is someone in the closet". It's obvious that Beatrice won't repeat this, because this is the whole point. She doesn't want to checkmate herself. Erika should've asked her to repeat "there is no one in the closet", if Beatrice claims that Kanon disappeared. Ahh, she's the great detective and make such a foolish move... :/
In that point, Beato can repeat "there are no one in the closet". Because the bed is still available. Of course, she can evade the use of that red if she want to. The real trick to win is another.
The whole point of asking people to repeat stuff in red is to give them something according to their claimed theory, which they should have no trouble repeating, and which gives you a clue about a lie if they refuse to repeat it. It should be in their best interest to repeat it. Erika asking her to repeat something according to Erika's theory, which Beatrice has no business in confirming, is just surprisingly dumb for her and useless, that's why it was weird to me. (For that you have blue truths, and I believe this was a whole discourse in EP2 (or even EP3 and EP4? not sure) where Beatrice would mock Battler with refusing to repeat stuff for him whenever she wanted) Asking Beato to confirm nobody is in the closet, which Beato claims, makes more sense imo, as it would be in Beatrice's interest to state it in red if what she claimed was true. If she refuses, that means she's lying.
18:47 [spoilers] This whole talk about "the closet" that stood there "like a coffin" is thematically brilliant for Yasu's suffering and breaks my fckin heart.
13:37 basically describes the fandom looool. I clicked on another video earlier today just to see people fighting over rosatrice & the existence of [spoiler character] in the year 2017... for example 🙃
Bernkastel's Footstool i know it sounds stupid, but I like think in Rosa as the culprit haha. I have a obsession with Rosa and Eva. Don’t kill me for it :c
@@YoshiyaKanon nah I understand. I mean Ryukishi literally wanted the readers the formulate their own solutions and follow the truth that they have faith in. The catbox is still closed anyway (and hopefully will stay that way).
Bernkastel's Footstool Ryukishi is unfortunately able to open the cat box, but it probably never will be open. I don’t think that he thinks in add more or change something to umineko. Is his masterpiece.
@@sakutaro3musik486 kinda late but while red truth states that everyone can use their given name it does not forbid someone using multiple given names basically Shannon, Kanon are names of one person after Kanon rescued Battler he went into closet and switched to Shannon persona making claim Kanon disappeared true for inside was Shannon
@@Докторпарадокс However, there is a dodge, because the given name could be said to be the name of that person while not mentioning that is a name of that human (body). Multiple people but one human.
@@Докторпарадокс knox's 10th counters any beatrice/kanon/shannon switch. Erika never checked the closet, she was dead by that time. Kanon could even use a window, the logic error is about Battler's rescue, not Kanon's.
@@arkaring incompetent is highly subjective there are a million ways to explain that. Incompetent in this way for this regard. Lol. But is Erika really pleased to meet them? XD or idk maybe it's a Japanese thing.
Beatrice laughing in red can be compared to erika presenting herself in red As in, neither make sense with the definition of it being a statement that is true regardless of proof
@@nicbentulan but I'd say she's probably pleased to meet them in the sense that is thanks to them that she will be able to start playing detective, so. . .
Spoilers: That only means that Erika COULD have arrived from the drift to the island, but she was dead by that point, so she couldn't have interfered in the incident.
Not exactly, since the "Even if you join us" implies that in the case of her being alive, and even interacting with the Ushiromiya family, there would still be 17 people. In fact, the "Even if" implies that the reality is that she never actually drifted into Rokkenjima.
That's dumb. How would she kill all those people from the first twilight if she's dead on arrival? It's explicitly said in red that she killed them. Also, this doesn't explain her red statement; how is she the 18th human if she's dead? Even if you include corpses it doesn't work because you'd have to count Kinzo, whose corpse is on the island, meaning she'd be the 19th human.
Because Erika isnt the only one they're against, and Beato's psychological attack doesnt affect that well other people. When she says that "I'll forgive Erika if she uses 'x' to answer the second ridle" she's taunting Erika but also covering that she's gonna use the exact same trick again (so the only way to Erika to win is to NOT use 'x'). This works for Erika who's already enraged, and the people who are there just to see the show and dont think about it... but it's the same as show all their cards to Bern, and that what makes Ep7 and Ep8 "Bern against everyone else".
So Battler was draggin Erika's body into bathroom, then Kanon came and switched with Battler. Kanon/a body doesn't have to exist under the bed, in the closet, or in the bathroom if they' moving Erika's body from behind. Or "Kanon" has been moving Erika's body for the entire game, was it ever confirmed in red that only Erika's corpse was alone somewhere?
But Erika isn't dead in games 5 and 6, she's a piece that *can* appear on the gameboard. She wouldn't, not without a miracle. And at the time of the games suspension, she was always alive. What killed her was the red truth, "Even if you join us, that's only 17 people."
I swear, I love how erika did her last words.
"there are 17 people" is so savage. you realise just how little Erika truly knows.
Yep you don't count Kinzo because in truth he is dead in all games. So that makes it 15 people (with shannon and kanon erased too), but with Sayo it's 16 people. If Erika joins it's 17... It's a genius creation if r07
@@ChikyuuKun Not exactly. Humans are physical bodies. 16 living physical bodies. Dead Kinzo. Dead Erika. Thus, as Erika says she is 18th Human. They are 17 people. One physical body has two personas, Shannon and Kanon. BEATRICE is a formless "witch" who isn't on the Board until Kanon or Shannon alternate.
It is why Erika disappears when BEATRICE shoots her. She exists because of BERNKASTEL's MIracles (The Forgers believing she could have ended up on the island)
It is why Erika doesn't affect the first four games.
@@ChikyuuKun That would imply that in every other game the number of people were counted differently.
@@Eltipoquevisteayer it werent?
Where did they saod the exact number of people in previois games?
@@Jrdotan During the end of the 3rd game, when Eva-Beatrice was making the web of red truths
Rewatching this after all these years after fully absorbing the 'truth', makes me realize just how risky of a fight this was for Beatrice. Erika only needed to say a few words or sentences at best to win. She already got the wordplay trick, too bad she wasn't keen enough to understand just how deeply that riddle runs for this fight. And well, for most of the games. Which makes her fight with Battler at the Manga version of Twilight all the more incredible.
If anything, this was Beatrices attempt to see if Erika really figured out the mystery or if she had simply solved the locked room problems. Knowing the culprit and their motives makes this "logic error" easily solvable. If Erika really knew, she'd have solved this on turn one, and at that point there wouldnt be anything anyone could have done anyways, since Erika would have grasped the truth regardless.
i realize Im kinda off topic but do anyone know a good site to watch new tv shows online ?
@Esteban Brian flixportal :D
@Dwayne Issac thanks, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I appreciate it !!
@Esteban Brian You are welcome :)
Beatrice said three bodies *went into the room*. She evaded Erika's definition check by contextualizing her query which Erika failed to notice. This means "body" is not equal to "person". That's why both the final red truths were possible.
Both of them are legit. With Erika included, there are both 17 and 18 people on the island as Kanon is considered a person by narrative too and the number of bodies is also a valid count. Both truths coincide in the world of Umineko.
The irony is that Erika has just realised that two contradictory truths can exist on the witch's gameboard, yet she was defeated by the very same fact.
Didn't they opposed person and body tho ? Shannon and Kanon being 2 persons but one body, and Erika being dead when reaching the island, she's 1 body but 0 person, which makes 17 bodies and 17 person, thus not allowing Erika being present and sending her back to her original state : dead.
@@sha1060 18 bodies and 17 persons. Kinzo's body which is always burnt to a crisp to hide when he truly died, and thus does not count as a person, but as a 'human'. Erika's body was either brought to the island, or was washed ashore and used during the games to obscure when Shannon died during one of the games, making her the 18th 'human' but not a person in the terms of the game.
Damn language games
@@lptc5 She can say it because it's a valid count, title or not.
@@mmarage1 Battler used Golden Truth to allow Kinzo to exist. He's dead but he IS on Rokkenjima. Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica, Eva, Hideyoshi, George, Rosa, Maria, Rudolph, Kyrie, Battler, Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Shannon/Kanon/Culprit. That is 17 people. Erika makes 18.
...And then Battler and Beatrice got married! Hooray!
3:05 Erika sealing her own destiny... RIP.
Bernkastel's puppy was the coolest detective.
Ah, I love how our patches are being used by so many people :P
Are these not official works? With how high quality they were I thought it must have been an official update.
You're one of the people that made this?
*KAMIIIIIII*
Thanks for your hard work. It looks like higurashi kou made a lot of people to be interested in umineko
Say it in red, bodies or people? c:
@@ThatGaymer the art is official - its just from ps3 ver of the game if my memory serves right
I'm in love with Furudo Erika.
Beato > Erika
Beato > Erika
@@Stoodem Erika > Beato
Probably 2nd favorite scene with erika... Erika is good at being evil, which is why I think she is one of the coolest characters.
Erika is my favourite!!
Was i the only one rooting for her the entire episode 5 and 6? XD
She is seriously so badass! I loved watching her reason things out!
A beautiful logic trick.
Poor Erika... "Repeat it: there is someone in the closet". It's obvious that Beatrice won't repeat this, because this is the whole point. She doesn't want to checkmate herself. Erika should've asked her to repeat "there is no one in the closet", if Beatrice claims that Kanon disappeared. Ahh, she's the great detective and make such a foolish move... :/
In that point, Beato can repeat "there are no one in the closet". Because the bed is still available. Of course, she can evade the use of that red if she want to. The real trick to win is another.
She doesn't have to repeat that in red either lol.
@@meeramalhotra33 That's what I thought. Erika has to come up with a theory and then use blue truth to force the witch side to respond right?
Erika should've asked her to repeat "there is no one in the closet" --> Do you disagree with Meera Malhotra?
The whole point of asking people to repeat stuff in red is to give them something according to their claimed theory, which they should have no trouble repeating, and which gives you a clue about a lie if they refuse to repeat it. It should be in their best interest to repeat it.
Erika asking her to repeat something according to Erika's theory, which Beatrice has no business in confirming, is just surprisingly dumb for her and useless, that's why it was weird to me.
(For that you have blue truths, and I believe this was a whole discourse in EP2 (or even EP3 and EP4? not sure) where Beatrice would mock Battler with refusing to repeat stuff for him whenever she wanted)
Asking Beato to confirm nobody is in the closet, which Beato claims, makes more sense imo, as it would be in Beatrice's interest to state it in red if what she claimed was true. If she refuses, that means she's lying.
Birth of a New Witch.
Chain
the way she introduced herself was EPIC
18:47 [spoilers]
This whole talk about "the closet" that stood there "like a coffin" is thematically brilliant for Yasu's suffering and breaks my fckin heart.
The soundtrack in the end is called "Birth of the new witch" for those who are searching.
This was the moment everything came down to me.
13:37 basically describes the fandom looool. I clicked on another video earlier today just to see people fighting over rosatrice & the existence of [spoiler character] in the year 2017... for example 🙃
Spectacular Bear I still believing in rosatrice yet. I don’t care if Ryukishi07 denied it.
@@YoshiyaKanon how the hell do you still believe that theory i-
Bernkastel's Footstool i know it sounds stupid, but I like think in Rosa as the culprit haha. I have a obsession with Rosa and Eva. Don’t kill me for it :c
@@YoshiyaKanon nah I understand. I mean Ryukishi literally wanted the readers the formulate their own solutions and follow the truth that they have faith in. The catbox is still closed anyway (and hopefully will stay that way).
Bernkastel's Footstool Ryukishi is unfortunately able to open the cat box, but it probably never will be open. I don’t think that he thinks in add more or change something to umineko. Is his masterpiece.
Best scene in Chiru
ah…… now I feel old
God I love this soundtrack.
this is amazing, watched it so many times
Get out of the closet Kannon, you`re not fooling anyone.
😂
And this is why Dawn is my favourite EP in Chiru!
literally all of this could have been solved if someone had just asked for a confirmation on the definition of a 'given name'
How?
@@sakutaro3musik486 kinda late but while red truth states that everyone can use their given name it does not forbid someone using multiple given names basically Shannon, Kanon are names of one person after Kanon rescued Battler he went into closet and switched to Shannon persona making claim Kanon disappeared true for inside was Shannon
@@Докторпарадокс However, there is a dodge, because the given name could be said to be the name of that person while not mentioning that is a name of that human (body). Multiple people but one human.
@@Докторпарадокс Damn nice, so much I don't understand still.
@@Докторпарадокс knox's 10th counters any beatrice/kanon/shannon switch. Erika never checked the closet, she was dead by that time. Kanon could even use a window, the logic error is about Battler's rescue, not Kanon's.
I don’t think anything will be and to top this series for me
I wish I haven't got so Manu spoilers before reading EP 6
Erika was so pathetic it´s so tiresome to remember useless pieces. *Fufufufu*
What do you mean pathetic huh?!
@furudoerikas1472 *p a t h e t i c*
What is the name of the OST that's playing at around 16:30? I absolutely love it
+Jessica Zhang It's called ALIVE.
just amazing :) erika was the best
30:33 pleased to meet you is in red? Logic error maybe?
Beatrice literally laughs in red at battler after calling him incompetent so. . .
@@arkaring incompetent is highly subjective there are a million ways to explain that. Incompetent in this way for this regard. Lol. But is Erika really pleased to meet them? XD or idk maybe it's a Japanese thing.
@@nicbentulan I was reffering to her laughing in red
Beatrice laughing in red can be compared to erika presenting herself in red
As in, neither make sense with the definition of it being a statement that is true regardless of proof
@@nicbentulan but I'd say she's probably pleased to meet them in the sense that is thanks to them that she will be able to start playing detective, so. . .
Oh, was going to watch the anime. But now that I see it is actually translated, why would I bother in watching when I can read? Glorious
Also the anime would miss too many details since the VN is 100+ hours long, or much more.
This VN part is not in anime anyway.
The anime is amazing
@@4spurta 🤮🤮🤮
Yep, I'll do it soon~
Spoilers:
That only means that Erika COULD have arrived from the drift to the island, but she was dead by that point, so she couldn't have interfered in the incident.
Not exactly, since the "Even if you join us" implies that in the case of her being alive, and even interacting with the Ushiromiya family, there would still be 17 people.
In fact, the "Even if" implies that the reality is that she never actually drifted into Rokkenjima.
That's dumb. How would she kill all those people from the first twilight if she's dead on arrival? It's explicitly said in red that she killed them. Also, this doesn't explain her red statement; how is she the 18th human if she's dead? Even if you include corpses it doesn't work because you'd have to count Kinzo, whose corpse is on the island, meaning she'd be the 19th human.
Anyone knows, whats the name of the song that starts at 30:25?
Birth of the witch
Birth of a New Witch
So...what happens ? Why are Beato and battler speaking like they're going to die despite killing her
Because Erika isnt the only one they're against, and Beato's psychological attack doesnt affect that well other people.
When she says that "I'll forgive Erika if she uses 'x' to answer the second ridle" she's taunting Erika but also covering that she's gonna use the exact same trick again (so the only way to Erika to win is to NOT use 'x').
This works for Erika who's already enraged, and the people who are there just to see the show and dont think about it... but it's the same as show all their cards to Bern, and that what makes Ep7 and Ep8 "Bern against everyone else".
what is song name what start at 30:19 and ends 33:15 ?
+Luna9865
Birth of a new witch
+Necromortem thanks ^^
+Vanessa Jenkins I really know the song name
+Vanessa Jenkins it's okay ^^
So Battler was draggin Erika's body into bathroom, then Kanon came and switched with Battler. Kanon/a body doesn't have to exist under the bed, in the closet, or in the bathroom if they' moving Erika's body from behind. Or "Kanon" has been moving Erika's body for the entire game, was it ever confirmed in red that only Erika's corpse was alone somewhere?
But Erika isn't dead in games 5 and 6, she's a piece that *can* appear on the gameboard. She wouldn't, not without a miracle. And at the time of the games suspension, she was always alive. What killed her was the red truth, "Even if you join us, that's only 17 people."
Haawn Erika ;w;
What is the name of the first music please?
I know I’m responding to a really old comment but the song is called liberated liberator
@@bigfella5731 I've already found it since I've posted this comment, but thank you anyway!
hahaha
Vanessa Jenkins ok vanessa
wts the ending song called???
birth of a new witch
What the hell is this?
Umineko when they cry
Peak
Done, check my latest vid. Should be what you wanted ^^.