DEBUNKED- The experts said this chisel trick wouldn't work!
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2022
- For years I've been told you can't use the ruler trick to sharpen a chisel, that it was ONLY for plane irons. Let's see if they are wrong...
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*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
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*Links promised in this video:*
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
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-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
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-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
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-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
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I would “ never “ bevel the back of my chisels!! I also “always” set my planes down on their sides !! Yeah right-it is the craftsperson that can think for themselves that gets my vote!
Its a wonderful tip to keep in mind when sharpening saw blades as well.
I greatly appreciate your willingness to test out such "rules of thumb". You are stepping on some toes but I believe you covered yourself sufficiently. Keep on testing grandpa's rules.
I only use the "ruler" while sharpening my card Scrapers. They are thin and difficult to flatten the faces. Using a ruler gives me great results.
Yes and so precisely explained. Excellent video.👍
all of this talk about thumbs and toes, you'd think this was a stumpy nubs video...
“See if any heads explode.”
LOL. I love it. You sir, are an instigator…keep up the good work ;-)
I love that people are challenging conventional wisdom in woodworking. Just like the strength of end-grain glueing, this is one of those things that gets repeated over and over, and it takes an experiment like this to actually try it and see that it works just fine!
agreed. I love when people challenge old information experimentally... Remember, tradition is just peer pressure from the dead.
What I want to know is how well this holds up when mortising, if it throws off your ability to get a perfectly vertical mortise wall.
Don't take it the wrong way, there's still no good application for end grain glue. The reason glue works on the side of long grain is because the glue is stronger than the wood in that configuration, however the glue is still weak and ridiculously weaker than trying to break the long wood fibers in an endgrain situation. Point is, don't rely on glue.
@@tarbucktransom most likely, nothing you or I or Mr Nubs himself has ever made is “perfectly vertical.”
As humans we are perfectly imperfect , we just need to keep it to a very tight tolerance level and at our best, our error will be there but unnoticeable
In my experience, conventional wisdom in woodworking usually means stubborn old guys sticking with what they know LOL.
I've been micro-beveling the back since the beginning and can't say I've ever run into a cut my chisels couldn't handle. The wear and tear and time saved on sharpening stones makes it a no-brainer
Same here :)
I'm disappointed to learn that this trick has a name. The first time it occurred to me, I thought, "I wonder if I could put something like feeler stock under my chisel so I don't have to cut this whole surface."
I didn't have any feeler stock but I had a ruler. It seems like the most obvious thing ever.
I've always been a bit skeptical about the no ruler for chisels rule myself. I do flatten and polish mine, but maybe the next one I get that needs a lot of work will get the ruler. And, assuming I did the math correctly if you assume the ruler is 1/64, the distance across the stone is 3", the polish goes back 1/4" then you have a .0013" rise from the back of the chisel to the edge, only half that if you only polish back 1/8" etc. IIRC the good diamond stones are only guaranteed flat to .001" over the length, so really how flat do you actually get the back with the traditional method. Finally, if you only flatten the first inch or so, then you can only rely on the flat section to reference, once you're referencing on the non flattened portion all bets are off.
Plus it's way too easy to slip while you're flattening the whole back and ride on the bolster or even the handle. Then you're at an even steeper angle for a stroke or two. Better to control it and make the mistake on purpose so the strokes are consistent if that makes sense
I will say that the concept of lapping is to average out over a wider area to get a flat result (hence rubbing 2 of the same stone together typically will keep them flat) but assuming this same method, higher “accuracy” could be gotten by going to a thin feeler gauge under 1/64 (.016” or so)
The first thing I did was do the calculations. If anyone is expecting better that 1/1000 of an inch using any method, then they are expecting too much.
Hey Chris, thanks for doing the math on this, I was about to. As you figured, the amount of angle on this is so minute that it hardly makes a difference, that's why it's called a MICRO-bevel . . .
I was going to post the same. Even if the rule is 1/32, over 3" that's only 0.6 degrees the chisel is angled up. 1/64 and the angle is angle is 0.3 deg.
I had never heard of this trick, but it seemed like such a good idea, I decided to take it to its logical extreme. I used my 0.003" feeler gauge blade to block up the chisel. It took about 10 seconds to produce a 1/16" wide area on an already flattened chisel. I'll never again flatten a chisel the old way.
Interesting point. Thinner the "ruler" the less any possible issues even matter.
I was wondering about using a feeler gauge; thanks for the report!
I was also wondering about brass shim stock as the "ruler," since it's available in cuttable sheets. You might have to lightly round off the backside corners on the chisel so they don't dig into the soft shim stock, but I can't see that being a problem.
@@ztoob8898 Even easier: tin foil. Double it up if you want, or more.
Tin foil is about a thou or two and won't have you consuming expensive brass stock.
Another option is to cut up a pop can. I use that to shim my jointer and it's predictably thick, around 3 thou.
It makes total sense -- it's just ratios. The ratio of the body of the chisel to the height of the ruler will be the same as ratio of the width of the bevel (the width of the shiny strip) to the gap between the true edge and the flat chisel back. If the chisel body is ~2.5 inches (between where it's supported on the ruler and the sharpened edge) and the ruler is 1/64", then you have a 160:1 ratio. If the back bevel is about a millimeter in width (about what it looks like at 4:48), then the gap will be *one four-thousandth* of an inch (0.00025")! I can't imagine a hand-tool joinery use case where that deviation is material.
@@nelsoncarpentry 25 hundred-thousandths of an inch is the same as one four-thousandth.
@@thebigmacd Ahhh yeah one four-thousandth as in a fraction. Okay don't mind me. lol
My philosophy when it comes to conversations about sharpening technique is: Regardless of how it came to be, a sharpe edge is a sharpe edge, whatever works for you.
But only if you spell it correctly😎
@@johnstarkie9948 its not my strong point haha
The bevel is so small that it's negligible. We're probably talking about less than half thou plus when it comes to most woods, they can compress more than that amount anyway in a joint. You can mark many woods with a fingernail to give you an idea of what I mean.
Great point about compression!
we have had this argument in the shop many times. Thus the rule of courtesy "I may loan you my chisel, but don't you dare sharpen it." (I'm a long time professional woodworker) I get paid to work wood, not to sharpen tools. I generally hollow grind on a bench grinder and then strop on a hard buffing wheel. I do the back side but try to keep a light touch. I get a razor sharp edge in seconds. I find that any micro bevel caused by the buffing wheel is not enough to make any difference.
Awesome tip! I have some chisels to sharpen myself and I'm going to give this a try! I don't have a bench grinder so sharpening takes forever, so hopefully this will help save some time on the back of the chisels!
Your presentation and camera work is always astounding...top notch, among the best, regardless of genre. Thanks for sharing!
It seems to me that the tolerance of the chisel honing exceeds the tolerance required for the timber, even with the minute back bevel. We’re not making a bearing mating surface in high carbon steel.
Love your work 👍
You are making a lot of sense in these videos. Great info.
This makes a HUGE difference to me, as a new "low budget" woodworker and new in hand-sharpening, as I hope this "ruler-trick" will make it possible finally to get one of old, cheap chisels just semi-sharp! Until 5 minutes ago, I was quite sure I'll never get it done!
If I can do it, I hope it will give me the confidence to try to sharpen more, and in more ways!
I’ve often thought about the old “ruler trick” on a chisel. Glad you did these tests. Very interesting indeed. 👍🏼👍🏼
Hi James, love your debunking videos, this was no exception. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks.. always so clear and concise...
Wow. Fascinating. Will try this, thank you.
That was a very informative video as always I learned a lot. I find your sharpening videos very helpful I've used your methods on multiple tools thank you again
FANTASTIC VIDEO! Thanks for doing this. It's great information. Cheers.
I watch this channel often however it is your drawing skills for illustration that earns my highest respect.
Great experiment, I’ve often wondered if this theoretical problem was an actual problem or not, I appreciate the data point
Rob Cosman's channel was the first place I saw the ruler trick -- even on chisels -- and one can argue his stuff is pretty high end. Always great pieces. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing with us James. I let those folks argue and I do flatten the back for better cutting ability, just the way I was taught years ago. Fred.
As long as you do not flatten/polish the WHOLE backside of the chisel blade you will have some deviation… That means that rhe ruler trick on chisels will do ”the trick” in 99% of the cases. And the longer the chisel the less the back bevel will be… Good tip!!
Another informative Stumpy Nubs video! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you James. Great video on a topic I have wondered about for quite a while
Great video. Fit in with some sharpening I did for the spouses gardening tools recently.
Thank you for going against the tide. Your audiences learn very valuable information.
My favorite wood working channel thanks!
Great method. I even used this technique on a Sweat heart chisel Hamilton recommended. Rob Cosman also uses this technique. Love this new, better method. You guys are great teachers.
Beauty! Thanks stumpy, great video!
I must say, I really appreciate someone with the knowledge like you actually testing these myths and common wisdoms, while not trying to come to a definitive conclusion about what anyone should or shouldn't do. There's almost always a kernel of truth to these old rules, but I like to know why so that I can make an informed choice. Edit: btw, I find that there are more ways to do most things right than there is to do them wrong, if that makes sense. If it works, it works.
That’s a great infomercial! Thanks!
Very thought provoking...thank you. This good outcome, may be related to the compressibility of the wood and inversely related to the hardness of the wood material
I've never thought of sharpening new tools. Learned something from the first few seconds of the video let alone the ruler sharpening.
I've wondered about this myself. Thanks
I was just clearing out my drawer of chisels today. Some are quite old including a couple of Sheffield stub chisels. Many could use a good sharpening and the back of many are less than perfect after so many years of use (before me). Then I see your video today and now I have a weekend project ahead of me. Thanks??
Personally, I'll probably keep flattening my chisels the traditional way, but I think you proved that the ruler method can be personal preference as long as it's done right.
Great vid Stumpy! That chiseling was so satisfying!
I have all of my great grandfathers chisel and most of them have been sharpened like this and they have always worked great for me
That's really interesting indeed! Thanks, James! 😃
Maybe a mixed sharpening could help a lot!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Interesting video SN! I agree with your assessment about sharpening the back bevel. Heads are always going to explode when discussing any woodworking topic! 😂😂🤣🤣👍👍
Again, a good video with useful information 👍
Another great video, James. Thanks!
How timely. I have some Narex chisels that I need to sharpen. You probably saved me about an hours worth of work!
Interesting. Great video.
Man, do I have so much to learn! Thanks for all of your content!
Awesome; thanks, Stumpy!!
As always James, great work! You are right about the back bevel not affecting the cut. Although, you only need to flatten the back once. Back bevels need to be done at every sharpening.
Not every time. Just when future honing eventually wears the length down past the thin shiny strip on the back. But touching it up each time does remove any burr, something you would do with a fully flattened back, as well.
This is great. I'd love to see a comparison over 1000+ sharpening iterations.
Nothing like chappin’ a few arses with an unconventional sharpening method…. Gotta love ya for these James!
Thank you as always!
-CY Castor
I am going to try this for my rough work chisels that are always getting new bevels to grind out chips and nicks due to the abuse they have received. the backs are not pristine either as they get rusty and scratched. This trick will probably save me a lot of time making them serviceable for rough carpentry and general shop abuse. Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good enough.
Everyone needs tools that can be used and abused for rough work so as to spare the better tools from such abuse.
Thank you for expanding our knowledge and techniques based on actual use, not just folk wisdom.
It would have been instructive if you had gone back over the paring area with the traditionally sharpened chisel to see what, if any, additional wood it removed.
Excellent point. I believe MORE will be removed.
Only difference would be how much or little the operator raised the handle. He showed a flat ground will not remove material on a flat surface without raising the handle a bit.
So how much one raises the chisel with either method is about skill, and not the tool. In every craft, a skilled person can do better with a cheap tool than a novice with an expensive one.
At 7:40 you see there is an void between the steel bar and chisel on the right side, so it is clearly cutting at an angle upwards
Thank you for sharing this with us today from Henrico County Virginia
That was good stuff. Very cool!
Thank you Mr Nubs.
Great info. As usual. 👍
Cheers nice info and time saver
Interesting as always!
Wow! Thank You!
Thank you for sharing
Great video. While I usually try to get the back truly flat near the edge, I've also noticed how you have to lift up the back of the chisel a bit anyway, so maybe a tiny back bevel is ok.
For plane blades I micro bevel the back like the ruler trick but don't bother with the ruler, just hold it ever so slightly off the stone freehand.
did not see that coming.....great vid thx
Thank you, Mr. Nubs!
Good to know!
I’ve got a set of HF chisels I’ll try this on. Maybe they will become my new favorites.
Great video.
Well done Sir!
Very informative
Good point, expertly made! With my impressive essential tremor, I work against reference surfaces wherever possible. That said, if the ruler trick really doesn't interfere with paring cuts, more better. I don't use a Tormek or equivalent and only use a slow speed grinder / CBN for initial shaping, so it's all hand sharpening in my shop. And being relieved of the need to polish a wider area would be great. I'll try this out. I'm kind of a sharp freak (Sellers version, not Cosman), so this makes me wish I'd tested this bit of conventional wisdom on my own, earlier. Bottom line: head exploding but in a good way.
Agreed. Reference surfaces are only good for maximizing the material you have to remove and the time it takes to get to the next cut.
Very interesting!
wow i have never heard of the ruler trick, thank you
Thank you!!! Good to know!!!!! 👍💯
I think you're right, I've used this method and it's worked. I have very clean cuts.
i am new to woodworking and do not many expensive chisels so this is a good way to get going with the chisels i have. have you ever considered changing a standard chisel to a the chisels from japan that have the middle of the back hollowed out so there is less to flatten on the back
The big issue Ive always had with chisels like this is when chopping mortises it will slide forward. Personally I've never been a fan of the David Charlesworth ruler for plane blade either but of course there is nothing wrong with it I just find it to be more annoying to deal with rather than just flattening the back once.
True about being annoying to deal with but it's a great workaround for the odd plane iron that has such a radical hump that sanding it out just isn't practical. (Wish I knew this before spending days working at a humped plane iron to get it flat thankfully I was able to watch RUclips while flattening it so my sanity stayed intact)
A wonderfully cerebral video as always! Smart guy!
I've done this to my chisels too, mostly out of ignorance, so I was surprised when I learned my chisels shouldn't work well in your examples and yet they do. I think folks get wrapped up in the theory that it shouldn't work IN THEORY. But it does because woodworking isn't exactly the same as precision machining. For us 1/64 is certainly acceptable, 1/32 probably, and we can even hide errors of 1/16 of an inch. In machining and metal work any of those tolerances would be big issues, but we're working with a soft material, even when it is hardwood, that naturally expands and contracts moves. So while in theory there may be a point, in practicality the thousandths of material you've removed from the back of that chisel just aren't going to effect it's performance on a variable, once alive surface like wood.
That is one place where you get what you pay for. The manufacturer chooses not to machine the tool accurately to hit a price point. For those few who have access to a surface grinder you can flatten the back of a chisel to sub 0.001" tolerance easily.
🎵 this isn’t some space engineering, sweetie it’s cedar and glue... this isn’t a rocket you’re building - if it’s true to a sixteenth it’s true 🎵
This is essentially a conversation about acceptable tolerances.
@@Barrysautospares Exactly and for some people they can accept a looser fit but others can have very high standards for their work. That's the difference between decent work and world class
I work as a framer my boss always says there is no 1/16 in framing.
As you said wood is alive.
Anything you make is going to move and bend out of shape eventually. If it's being made out of wood then it will never be perfect.
my head just exploded. Thanks Stumpy
How interesting! While I'm neither an expert in chisel sharpening, I have quite a bit more experience with Japanese kitchen knives and their maintenance. Single bevel knives like a honesuki or a yanagiba are polished on the back. The back profile is very, very slightly concave and that polishing creates a micro bevel. This allows for a better and straighter cut than a pure single bevel would do.
Thanks a lot for this video and your will to tackle myths and shop legends.
An excellent experiment and demonstration.
As much as it explores received wisdom that might stir the hornets nest, it also demonstrates that it is simple enough to apply critical thinking, and arrive at simple enough test approaches to find out which methods work, versus those that are superfluous, or otherwise flawed..
I would have never thought to try it, but now I feel ever more informed.
Always enlightening, thank you James.
Love the video and your challenging of sharpening dogma. I always thought the ruler trick was a no no for larger chisels and sandpaper unless heavily pitted and in a time crunch. At least that's what my aged shop teacher said back in the 90's. He did a demo on carving part of pew with rounded cross inlay and you could see a difference on the rounded portions and we as students could feel it too. You might try those because your diamond stones and grinder are way more precise than the tools used when that "rule" was a factor. The other factor was the repeated sharpening and creating multiple micro bevels. This actually can be discernable on very soft woods like Douglas Fir and Short leaf SYP in ornamental carving. But again it's a craftsman vs artisan vs novice students distinction. Anyways great video.
Stumpy, I saw this video as soon as this video came out. And this has been stuck my mind like a bad song which becomes an uninvited guest in your brain and just won't leave. Weather or not this works aside, but this video is certainly provocative! And of course, I will try this on my cheap chisels (which is all what I own)
Great video my friend!
Nice video as always. Sharpening stuff is always going to be a divisive topic because, lets face it, it's personal. I use hand planes and chisels a lot for both my recreational woodworking and my professional carpentry and don't use the ruler trick for one one simple reason: I don't use rulers like that for anything other than sharpening. I used to keep one clumped in with my sharpening stuff but when I inevitably lost it I just stopped doing the trick. A keen edge is a keen edge no matter how you get there but I'd rather flatten the back of a chisel once than have to search for a ruler I never use every time I want to sharpen it.
Great presentation, enjoyed very much. With that polished section kept so narrow, the geometry is very close to an ideal situation, .015" at the 2" width is about .001" if the shiny part is 1/8" wide or there about . Thanks for the video, cheers!
I've done the ruler trick on some of my chisels. For everyday chisel work, it really doesn't make a difference. But over time, it does change things slightly. When I test the edge on end grain, I have to angle the chisel up slightly.
The use of micro bevel is great for edges for many applications. I use it for folding knives, utility belt knives and some ktchen knives. It gives a stronger edge but keeps the "sliceability" of the thin edge.
I might try this trick with a feeler gauge or .005” shim stock. May still reduce the time I spend flattening while keeping the back bevel small.
I learned about back bevelling a long time ago, or rather a version of it, when sharpening knives. That little bit of cutting edge work always made a difference. I back bevelled my plane blades but never my chisels but I will try this too on my wider chisels. 1/2 inch or narrower probably won't see any difference. As for the possible residue in a corner, at most would be minimal and easily pared away with a box cutter if you need that perfect corner.
Oh, heads will explode. You can take that to the bank. Excellent demo James.
Great video
Love the physics note!
Nice video stumpy!!!
This video speaks to perfection versus near perfection. It seems in this case both are perfect enough.
I will try this. A good hardware store will carry shim stock in different thicknesses if you want to try different micro bevel angles.
BRILLIANT DUDE! Never be afraid to test "norms", that's how we grow!
Cool tip. Will try this.
As you said, a perfectly flattened chisel must is theory have that mirror finish all the way back to the handle. No-one has chisels like this.
Scallopped back chisels can be perfectly flat all the way on the sides, but the scallop is not the best reference surface if that's what you are after.
I have actually resorted to put a slight bend in chisels that I'm using for pairing. It lifts most of the surface up from the stone and I can focus on honing the last inch as flat as I can get it.
If you look at old slick chisels, they are often bent like this.
I think you make a good case for having some okay chisels and some really good chisels. I have some Wood Rivers (not the socket type) that could probably benefit from the ruler trick, and some Narex Richters I've already done the hard way. Well, and a few leftovers from my carpenter days that I don't mind driving with a hammer...