IT LIVES!!! Engine problem SOLVED!
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2021
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Your videography made me feel like I was right there beside you as you painstakingly documented each step of the trouble-shooting process of what was, a potentially serious problem, and as difficult and frustrating as it must have been at the time, you none-the-less took the trouble, time and dedication to bring us along, recording every detail so we felt apart of the journey. A happy ending to a simple problem; nicely done Mr. Hollywood. Probably one of your best videos in my opinion.
A detail I noticed that might help in general is this : when you bleed anything better built up the pressure FIRST and open you point of bleeding after .In other words start cranking the engine first wait 2 sec then turn the wrench.This way if any air you know you did not just reintroduce it yourself (it does happen) It also means I do agree with bleeding all injectors at the same time ONLY IF you know your system is sound and not for investigating a problem !. Glad to hear the beast purring .
You can back the lift pump up with an electric pump. My advice James is get to know the engine and systems like the back of your hand..it will pay dividends... Cheers 🥂
James you weren’t stupid. This is by far the best diesel bug air problem solving video on YT. You did it part by part with dieselbug!! This will give some kind of perspective of what to do when you want to diy. I know engines and I stayed watching the vlog. Good job dude! Loved it.
Someone please give this man a set of line wrenches to keep him from stripping off heads of lines and save his knuckles
@Keepingittocool *_ Yep, CLUMSY MUCH with those spanners and all the heads are suffering like crazy! Something tells me the engine is Metric and his Tool is Emperial....... OOPs, I mean his TOOLS! _*
I was thinking the same thing about line wrenches
Cringe worthy even for a shade tree knuckle buster.
Yeah but he got the correct helper
@@stelioshondrocolos1869 I think in a much earlier episode he one time mentioned he served in the armed forces. He could have received training there.
You can crack all 4 of the injector lines at the same time so its less time cranking for bleeding, and the lines on top of the injectors are return lines and don't need to be bled
good one! your exactly right..i wrote a comment and it was turning into a book and i forgot to mention this..
I don't understand why perkins or Lucus thought it was a good idea to take the injector by pass fuel return and plumb it back in on the fuel intake side of the filter!! 50 years as a diesel mechanic, sail boat engines drove me nuts.
Well done mate! I knew you'd find it. What a pain in the arse! Anyway, congratulations. I was on my mates boat last summer, he was headed from the UK to Portugal. We had a problem with his engine, an old perkins but with very few hours on it. We found a bit of steel in where the fuel cut off solenoid sits. Of course it was the rotary pump. The bit we found was part of the spring which sits on the wobble plate, or swash plate. He had to have the pump rebuilt - cost him the best part of £1000, but the guys who did it turned it round in less than a week, including getting the new parts - impressive. So, your problem was a real headbanger - at least it was cheap! It's always worth checking things you have changed. Don't keep the pump, another potential problem!
I always have the day diesel tank mounted well above the engine on the engine room bulkhead, so it gravity feeds to the engine's own pump. Fuel is pumped from the main tank via an electric pump, I bought one which draws diesel from the main tank and PUSHERS it through the filters, up to the header tank. I bought the diesel PUSHER- pump at a reasonable price and one more as a spare. Any diesel pump will work, but it needs to PUSH fuel up to the header tank. Lift pumps never work well. A cheap header tank is a stainless steel flush tank- for a heads unit---but any stainless fuel tank will do.. The inlet into the header fuel tank goes to the same outlet via a T-junction. What the engine does not use goes up into the header tank, then overflows from the top of the tank into a large r diameter pipe which drains directly into the main tank's filler pipe through a junction fitting.. This continuously filtering polishes the fuel, so initially one has to watch the filters and keep them clean.. Any new fuel goes straight into the main tank as usual through the deck filler tube usually used..
The header tank is the answer. Nothing else works quite as well, and it prevents cavitation because any bubbles of air from fuel sloshing around in the main tank get vented from the header tank. The header tank's contents gives you an hour or two-engine running before it empties if you need to change or replace or clean a filter or mess about with or change the electric fuel pump. Gravity feed from a header tank has a lot going for it.. It sounds a lot more complicated than it is.
We'll just chalk this up to lessons learned...
Next time you run across a diesel sucking air you'll be one step ahead.
"Is it the correct filter WITH the correct o-rings.. or is it one that will just fit". Big difference.
Good job!
Being a mechanic is just like being a detective. It's a fantastic feeling when you finally figure something out - a sweet and beautiful relief. I used to work on trucks years ago and the fuel delivery from the tank to the injectors seemed a hell of a lot simpler than that plumber's nightmare you've got on the Perkins. I wonder if it could be simplified? I'm sure you don't want to go through that nightmare again.
Perkins are great engines
Where's the new video!? Been waiting for forever
Strange we ain’t heard from ya in two weeks
Agree! He must either so busy getting ready to sail, or already did
diesel requires a little more pressure to fire...You knew you were not getting that required pressure, but had difficultly finding the source of pressure loss... toss a fuel pressure gauge and various fittings in the tool box to use in your trouble shooting. Happy Sailing bro!
Output side of the fuel filter has the greatest suction and that's where the leak is most likely to pull air. Some filters are exactly alike but only part numbers are different because the o-rings included are different. O-ring cross sections could be round, square, wedged. If you don't have the right filter part number, reuse the old o-rings, but if you have the right o-rings, by all means, put the new ones in with a new filter.
This problem occurred because of a part cross reference issue. In other words, filter B can cross to filter A as a substitute, but filter A can't be used where filter B is called for by the OEM. The only difference may be the o-rings!
i dont mean to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot my password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
@Zane Kase instablaster =)
@Gianni Edgar i really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
@Gianni Edgar It did the trick and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thank you so much, you saved my account :D
@Zane Kase You are welcome :)
As a mechanic. I can feel you’re frustration. I’d rather deal with fuel than electrical anyway
HI James, I have exactly the same boat and engine (13 yrs now). It is a pig to change the fuel filters and bleed the system. The only thing I would say is that I bleed the HP injector inlet (horizontal lines) with the throttle on full, until the air goes. It usually fires on two cylinders before clearing the air out of the other two. Something that caught me badly on the M90, is the oil box cooler. From the engine raw water inlet it passes through a horrible little alloy box bolted to the side of the Hurth gearbox. This corrodes and restricts the flow to the impellor. I had "white smoke" out of the exhaust for ages which I could not figure out but turned out to be steam. The raw water was sufficient to cool the engine (80 deg.) but not enough to cool the exhaust. Recommend taking the box off and checking for corrosion. (Very easy)... Good luck. BTW I like the engine. Its a tractor engine really and is very reliable... I was told that they were good for 20,000 hours :-). Also recommend changing gearbox oil. Mine uses ATF and the dip stick is on the filler. I had to pump the old oil out through the dip stick/filler hole.
Sound advice James
Best advice I've seen here.
I use to service a array of small/large equipment with diesel engines.
In those the biggest issues were 5 gal fuel cans with trash and water.
Many of those diesels were tractor motors.
Solid advice!!! I have serviced these motors a lot on mowing equipment, always a pain in the ass to bleed them.... Especially when filterhousing is below the HP pump.... Made a suction pump from a brake oil bleeder and a modified nipple for the injector and return line... Vacuum is always stronger than pushing it with a small handpump and you suck the fuel in a container... Also if you have an airleak somewhere you can hear it.... Worked for me everytime....
Love your channel and admire your perseverance. Keep posting, keep sailing brother , keep living the dream.
Stoked about your accomplishment with the engine! Keep going!!! Cheers from snowy Chicago in 22 degree F temps.
Well done on having the balls to post the vid. Not many would share our journey so honestly. As to the issue, many other folk have commented and identified the critical issues. As a former marine engineer (submarines), gaining the knowledge to 'bleed' a diesel engine is core part of any skippers took kit. So rather than redo all the other comments, I would share with your viewers how I bleed our Perkins (4.236). Like yourself I have suffered from air leaks on the suction side of the lift pump. In my case a nationwide chandlery sold me a 3 way valve with NPT female outlets and BSP ports. Should have picked up the mistake and learn not to trust the salesperson. Even after I returned the mismatched parts, the sales team and store manager refused to accept the parts weren't compatible. The best way to bleed a system is to have a positive pressure to the lift valve and filters either using an inline pump or simply a bucket of fuel suspended above the engine. If there are any signs of weeping the fittings will quickly suck air into the system. Once you have proved the system's integrity to the lift pump pressurise the system down stream of the lift pump and then start bleeding. Don't move to the next fitting until all the air has been proved to be removed from the current one. In your video there appears to be lots of air at several points even after bleeding. A sure sign air is entering the system. Once the system is pressurised and fuel is being expelled without bubbles move onto the high pressure pump. The manual of pump manufacturer will have a sequence for bleeding. Again don't go past this point until you have a good flow of fuel with no bubbles. The next stage is to bleed the injector lines (not the return lines as you did). The engine will generally start. If not back off one or more injector lines 1/2 turn until fuel flows when the engine is turned over. Once the engine fires, quickly shut off the injector line. In a emergency where the engine stops simply due to running out of fuel and you change to a new tank or put some fuel back in the tank, it is sometimes possible to crack the injector line and bleed the engine with all the steps described. Lastly if something doesn't work, go back to the last thing you fixed before it was working. 99% of the time this will be the cause.
Your the best ! Good persistence , great to know for us guys who work on our own engines ! Also good follow up on engine repair when you left off last time I was wondering what the problem was with your motor , you left us in a lull on info of problem ....glad you got it fixed and now I know for in the future about fuel filter air leaking ....GOOD TO KNOW . Never too old to learn solutions to motor problems...for the future , great knowledge. One for the books , Thanks bro ! You are again an inspiration and amazing dude.....Good luck on you sea ventures..... And smooth motoring !!!!!!!!!!, from your fan peter
Nice job James, you are very patient, I would have been so frustrated by then, I still can’t believe it was that simple. The boat is coming along great. Looking forward to the first test sail. 😎🇨🇦
Happy for you two to have it running.
Good video. I really enjoy watching you bring the boat back to life.
12v pump works with a ball in side of it ,seen them used on a lot of cars but i am not a fan of them ,but if you run with it make sure you have two spares on board just in case. And i would also have a spare mechanical pump . Great work to find the fuel trouble :)
Where's James?
Congrats James!
James, you have major patience. I would have totally lost it long ago. Great work.
Nice work Cap hard work n determination paid off
I like your mechanics helper..... makes the job go a little easier I bet. She’s a doll! 🙂
G'day James, invest in a good set of fuel line flare nut wrenches or ratcheting flare nut. They provide a tight, perfect fit. They help prevent rounding off fuel line nuts and provide great leverage on tight spots. Some good companies are Wright; E-Z RED; Carlyle; Facom; Schwaben; GearWrench; and Williams.
You ok bro? Haven’t seen the weekly video yet. You didn’t sink that Oyster, did ya?
now you know.. this won't be a problem again .. only bad part the smell of Diesel in that cabin now has to be driving you crazy
So glad to see problems solved one at a time. If only I had a few less years on me I'd be your deckhand any time. Live Free - Fair Winds and Following Seas, Gods speed.
I appreciate you guys posting these videos and all the shit you go through. It just gives me ideas if I end up with a similar problem. Thanks Sid
Awesome,air in the pressured fuel system can be a bugger to sort out.ya did well.
I think your doing a great job, work at your own pace. Enjoy your time out there
Kind of reminds me of a Head Bolt thing one time, Glad to see it Running.
Moin from Hamburg & Bless up !!!
Whats going on - Long time no news...???
Glad you have got it running. Ide put it back original, with a shut off. Perkins diesel engines are fantastic quality... Keep it serviced and it will last forever....
Especially this older model very nice to overhaul and you will get such a nice reward when you do it
Refreshing, straight-ahead episode. Vicariously satisfying to watch you conquer that booger. Fight on.
Sometimes, if you suspect that the fuel system is drawing air, try a gravity-feed with a temporary plasma-bottle type arrangement held high above the motor. You should see the fuel dripping out somewhere. You must have an engine shut-off. It is vital.
Congratulations!!
Glad you found the problem... Tried to tell you that in former vlog about the filter, common problem is that the little rubber on the inside is not changed because they cannot get it off or changed.... So it leaks air in between..... And I have had to bleed a lot of them, I have serviced these motors a lot on mowing equipment, always a pain in the ass to bleed them.... Especially when filterhousing is below the HP pump.... Made a suction pump from a brake oil bleeder and a modified nipple for the injector and return line... Vacuum is always stronger than pushing it with a small handpump and you suck the fuel in a container... Also if you have an airleak somewhere you can hear it.... Worked for me everytime.... And for the oil in the bilge there are specialized cloths which suck up only oily stuff and no water... Have fair sailings and good winds for the time to come, love your infinite way to keep searching and resolve the problem....
Catching up man. Glad you solve that engine thing. Remember when things get complicate and you have done all possible things in engine , is much simpler than you thought. We just solve a ,Three, "3" year problem on a brand new yanmar nobody could get it solve. It was so simple ...Take care best luck.
Congrats brother
Well done James. 👍
I have a Perkins engine I installed an electric fuel pump never have to bleed my engine just turn on the electric fuel pump and it pushes the air off it works great I’ve lived the board my boat 21 years I’ve never bled the engine since I install the electric fuel pump it works amazingly.
So you have not had your injectors serviced for 21 years?
Love the journey getting it ready
No diesel engined boat should go out to sea without a spare lift pump , also invest in a remote starter set ,worth their weight in gold costing little money .
+1 on remote starter. From 1:40 on, what would you do w/o a crewmate? Plus, all the yelling into the cockpit; imagine trying that at sea.
absolutely
I never thought I was going to sucked in to watching engine fixing. But you want to see the problem solved
By the way congrats!
I'm not a diesel or boat guy, but I did work my way through college as a motorcycle mechanic. The best piece of troubleshooting advice I got from the old graybeard that ran the place was this, "If your house smells like shit, the first place you look is the last place you shit."
You say you rebuilt the filter housing?
Mhmm.
James, these are the times that separate the men from the boys. You got this...
Simple question u a diesel mechanic...
Its a waste of my time looking at your channel... your a sailor and you understand the mechanics of your vessel...shame on you dickhead...
Finally!!! Good on you, man!
Well done James & Laura
well done! patience and perseverance wins every time. I personally would leave the electric pump in line. I have that set up with my system. I do have a shut off at the tank pick up.
I used to lift all 4 injectors and mount them upside down to see if they are atomizing, saves flattening the battery. Its quick. You also need to be a bit careful with the spanners on injector and pipe nuts, the edges are clearly damaged and one day that'll be a problem. Its good practice to use two hands and be firm and controlled when undoing injectors - but then who'd be doing the filming? Glad you found the problem.
Get rid of the extra pump is my experience. PO had to put one in on my previous boat. He did so because there was an air leak in the line and the diesel would stop running. This overcame the air leak until the fitting that had the air leak loosened up further and dumped my whole diesel tank into the bilge... Luckily he had messed up the bilge pump wiring too so it didn't empty out into the bay. I got to experience all this deliciousness on my first sail / motor of the boat moving it from Long Beach harbor to Marina del Rey. Oh joy. So much fun to be stuck in a shipping lane with no wind and no motor.
The return pipe off the injectors (spill rail) is going back into the filter, so feeding air back in a loop to the hi pressure pump.
I have seen this on a lot of engines.
Congrats!
Have 2 filters and a inspection bowl on the lift pump, thats 3 possible locations for air leaks, Perkins can be a real pain to bleed, but all good when done. My 3 pot still runs like a clock, 56 years old.
Tenacity pays off. Good job
Good on U James
You guys having to much fun or did your lap top die again lol
Great job getting her running again
From an old diesel mechanic and boat shop owner a few suggestions. Get some line wrenches, they wont be so hard on the "B" nuts. See if the mechanical fuel pump will pass through fuel if you put an electric boost pump in line, I have one in my boat and 56 T-Bird and aircraft, that will give you a backup that can come in real handy if you are in a situation. also they make really good quality bleed valves you can use with your fingers that can save time if you need to bleed fast, like if you are trying to get out of rough seas. You can also put a drain hose on them to a catch can. Very good troubleshooting!
Hope you & Crew continuing fine..
Congrats on getting that thing running. Those little marine pups are foreign to me, but I've done some minor related work around and beside big stationary power plants - site power backup gensets and drilling rig engines. All fuel filter banks that I remember run large canisters in parallel, 2 to 6 in a set, per engine. A couple of dedicated mechanics even went so far as to swap out the oem cummins filter in their trucks with a pair of industrial canister fuel filters. The point being that it might be a good idea to upgrade your lines and fuel filtration setup, maybe even pumps, for the Perkins.
Also, I've personally replaced the timing mechanicals (cam phasors, chains, cam followers, VCT valves, as well as oil pump) in my V8 gasser due to wear and general bad behaviour. Part of the problem I believe was prior use of commercial oil-change shops where the cheapest bulk oil and Fram filters are always used to shave pennies. Now it's only OEM filters and full synthetic brand name jugs for the truck, done myself. No Frams. At 300,000 kms everything runs smooth as silk now.
Nice job. Way to stick with it
I would definitely buy a spare starter motor.
and some folks wonder why most motor boats have at least 2 engines -cause when 1 dont work generally the other 1 will get you home lolor to a safe place lol
Starter motor, fuel filters, fuel pumps, and some ether new injector set and plenty of metal tubing for new lines.
Running that impeller dry so much, that thing is shot too.
Yay! Congrats.
Beautiful boat
Good on you. Now for a whole lot of Simple Green.
"go ahead and flip it off"
if the lift pump has a whole in the diaphragm it will put air back in the system when it starts, I had this happen on my tractor and changed the lift pump and it solved it.
You got there in the end James, that's the main thing :)
Lol I’m in the uk my ohlsen has a 4108 perk my marina is on a tidal river I was going to get the boat lifted down river lol the bloody engine died 3 times I was on my own and had to bleed the system 3 times the whole system !! while drifting luckily I was on a ebb and one side of the river was reeds and mud matey I feel your pain there were a few let’s just say words and gestures thrown in the engine bay all is good now. My advice and I’m sure many will agree keep it all as simple as you can. Cracking boat mate proper bit of kit !
Here's a simple way to find air leaks in fuel lines. As the vacuum side of a system won't show leakage, pressurize that side of the system with fuel, the leak will show fuel. A simple 12v pump will do, or use the engine pump if you can rig it to pump fuel from a container back down through the system.
Great job
I would keep the pump. I have seen high performance diesel trucks with an extra pump before the lift pump to help fuel get from the tank to the lift pump so the lift pump doesn’t ever get starved for fuel and malfunction and then break
Well done buddy. You stuck to it without losing your shit. I know i would have.
awesome video love to detail....
I always like to have a mounted electric fuel pump ahead of the mechanical pump that I can run as needed. Great for bleeding the system and if I'm coming into a particularly rough and rolly inlet I'll throw on the pump as a backup.
Perkins Baby. I have only had westerbekes but I heard Perkins run for ever no joke. Yours looks like new too. That things cranks hard can tell you have good batteries!
Or his compression is not much I know painful subject
Go to the parts store and buy MORE fuel filters, get a few extra Racors and make sure that the fuel filters are changed on a regular basis till you are sure that none of the fuel bugs are getting in there. One of my Cummins diesels got to the point that it couldn't get any fuel cause the filters were clogged. With the boat sitting for so long it might take a few filters before you're running just fuel through them minus the crap. Congrats on getting it running! Simple process of elimination! Love how your mind works and can't wait to meet up with you in Florida this spring hopefully. Do you have a target location / part of Florida you're aiming at?
good job I figured it was the filter since it was the only thing you disturbed.
Grate video man!! but one thing with the injectors, you HAVE TO blead the high pressure side of the injector or it wont fire the injector. It takes about 20 to 30000 psi to fire the injectors if there is a air pocket in the line it wont build enough pressure. the return line you normally never have to blead
My suggestion. Get an electric low pressure inline pump like you have already and plumb in. When the electric pump is switched on it will purge the air on the low side even going through the cav injection pump. It can help deal with small air leaks in the supply side. The lines on the injectors on top are leak off and always have some air in them. It wont affect the operation of the engine as that fuel returns to the cav fuel filter housing. With that electric pump it will help bleed the injection pump so all you need to do in the future is bleed the inj pump and then crack the lines to the injectors. when you see fuel start it and when running you can crack the lines one by one again to bleed fully .
Chasing down an intermittent problem is a real pain in the arse but so satisfying when you figure it out and fix it.
You can use the electric pump on the glow circuit. Worked well for me for years. Pump will flow thru without power
Hi. Usually there is a strainer type setup as fuel enters pump as a last safety for the pump. If this is blocked it can cause cavitation and starvation.... worth a try
its call a lever and pumping it dry will ensure the diaphragm ruptures before you get it installed ! Also, invest in a electric priming pump. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge on this engine? if not get one it will eliminate wasting time and battery when troubleshoot...Good luck... Gilligan
Who know, but you were methodical in your search for the air leak! Good job
Methodical? Did you watch the video? He had no clue and kept messing with the high side without even eliminating the low side.
one thing i learned from all my years as a diesel mechanic you always always start with the simple stuff...if a truck was broke down on the side of the interstate and wouldn't start or stay running the very first thing i would do is confirm the fuel was up in the tanks and the tanks weren't contaminated with a rag or something blocking the pickup tube and that the truck wasen't out of fuel then i would go straight to the fuel filter and put a new one on it...next step would be to make sure the fuel shut off on the injection pump is ok and cycling back and forth....nine times out of ten its something really simple and as you found out any air leak makes your engine not run..also when cars and trucks are whizzing by you at 80mph it needs to be done quickly or call the tow truck as a last resort...for you would be tougher to get it done at sea...so double and triple check everything which i'm sure you already do..
Epic intro .... can you rent a fuel polisher and recirculate your tanks? Keep a vacuum pump around but I have never had to use it , I imagine a break bleeder would work in a pinch. I never need the primer and it starts really easy with the glow plugs. Always carry lots of extra fuel filters. OK James I will be keeping my fingers crossed but you could check the pulleys on your engine and make sure there isn't a lot of rust in the V grooves because if there is you might not have enough belts to complete a crossing, easier and cheaper to get rust out of there while you're at the dock .. also don't forget to bring extra transmission fluid and oil and if your engine has a harmonic balancer with a rubber vibration dampener in it make sure the rubber doesn't have any cracks in it because it could fly apart. Also try to have a supply of impellers (that are the right ones). An extra set of injectors would not be a bad investment . Do you have any Swageloks ? You might be able to start that engine without glow plugs, if not an extra set would be a good idea. Some engines have camshafts that are hollow and they sometimes snap for no good reason, make sure you don't have one of them but even a solid cast camshaft could break and it should be magnafluxed to make sure it doesn't have any cracks, that goes for crankshafts pistons rings and connecting rods, that head should be magnafluxed as well, just because you can't see it now doesn't mean it's not there , you might want to look at your timing gears too . Valve springs are cheap and even if I bought new piston rings I would have them magnafluxed, it's almost like cheating . One more thing , they make Teflon and Graphite packing for the stuffing box . Just sayin ....
"rent a fuel polisher"? Are you even a sailor?
That was a struggle to even watch... Happy it's solved.
Reminds me of a bad plug wire causing a weird miss even tho the damn thing's are bought new. All hail Capt James ⛵
bad luck wit the motor you will get it David Australia
Ok, make sure you get correct filters with proper rubber gaskets, make note of a part number, then get at least 2 extra to keep on hand. While you're at it, check all hoses, clamps, pully belt. Write all part numbers down keep in the navigation desk. Oh, pick up some extra water pump impellers too An Some make a gasket material to keep on hand. Check the battery clamps for any green crud on them, clean them off. Any powdery crud on any wire connection needs to be cleaned or the connection replaced. Make sure you don't double the rubber fuel filter gasket, take the old used one out and throw away don't reuse it. One last tip, seal all fuel filters in a saran wrap to keep the salt air from corroding the metal on them, that's it, Bub.
James I know the type of Stress that could be. I want time chased an air leak in a cummins for 3 days. End up being the brand
On the low pressure size had a pin hole in it Under the paint. Wouldn't leak but would suck air. Good job man
I don't know when I would have checked the fuel filter. I would still be working on it -_- Good job