Short barrel showdown! 13" XM7 in .277 Fury vs 14.5" 6.5 CM
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Let's take a look at how the Army's new XM7 rifle with 13" barrel chambered in .277 Fury compares to an LMT MWS with 14.5" 6.5 creedmoor barrel. The Army's new XM7 rifle is designed to fire the high pressure hybrid ammunition which provides extreme velocity from a short barrel. It's going to be really fun to see how the sig performs with the high pressure hybrid ammunition against a slightly longer barrel 6.5cm running a lighter weight bullet. In this video we'll take a look at the velocity from each setup, 100yd groups and then put some rounds on steel at 500 and 900 yards to get an idea of drop differences out to distance.
Instagram: mountainsmulletsmerica
00:00 Intro
01:07 Gear review
04:12 100 yd performance review
05:27 14.5" 6.5cm 500 yds
07:44 14.5" 6.5cm 900 yds
10:23 13" .277 Fury 500 yds
12:14 13" .277 Fury 900 yds
14:34 Shooting performance review
18:25 My thoughts on the Sig Spear
20:32 Closing comments 
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I want to see some 77gr 5.56 in a hybrid case. I think the real value of this innovation is what other cartridges it will extend to and how that will improve terminal effect, excited to see what is next
.308 win in hybrid case is way to go.
I wanna see new hybrid versions of the 5.56 alternates like 6.5 grendel
Take a look at the new ShellShock 5.56 cases, they are bringing hybrid case tech to 5.56. Ive seen 77gr going almost 3000 f/s out of a 20 inch barrel with the new cases, with the loads by BlackArc Munitions. Higher pressures and increased powder capacity.
That .227 hybrid is a barrel killer of a round,
The 6.5 will be better with the 140 grain
Really nice to see someone shooting the hybrid .277 ammo and getting some data on it. Would really like to have one for hunting if someone ever makes hybrid ammo in it. Personally though, I just don't see this round or rifle really taking off in the military. We moved away from the larger rounds so soldiers could carry more ammo. With options like the 6ARC around that can go to 1000 yards before going transonic out of a 14.5" barrel, I just think there are better options out there. Side charging rifles are quite nice when proned out.
I'm not sure the .277 will go far in the civilian side either
At 80k psi, it's gonna be a barrel burner, thump the shooter, and be loud as crap w/o a can
I think it will be great for the military. Especially with the ballistics computer. The Army needs a doctrine change though. Suppression is great for maneuver warfare but my guess is they want greater lethality at stand off distances rather than closing with other infantry.
Man, this is incredible. Sorry I had to cancel coming to the shoot the other weekend. Glad to see you're doing this kinda stuff! Great video! We'll meet sometime soon!
The cost of the .277 makes it a non option for me. But 2700 with a 150g out of a short barrel is solid
The cost will probably come down, but for me the big issue is barrel life. If your barrel burns out you got to redo a good portion of your dope, and that's one of the big reasons 300wm hasn't totally overtaken 308 in the first place. If you are going to accept those shorter barrel lifespan, you might as well use a 300WM AR imo which has far more energy.
@@DaveSmith-cp5kjI heard the barrel of the XM7 should last as long as a normal M4 one because of the higher pressure more powder is burnt earlier etc, something like that
@@Polarbear-nq9nd That is true, but the limiting factor of the barrel is loss of precision due to throat erosion (where the chamber ends). If you were to remove the barrel and shorten it down half an inch from the rear to rechamber, then yeah, the barrel would still be usable but basically none of the guns are designed to do that since most of the barrel profile is hogged away to get the lightest possible profile rather than a 1" diameter behemoth.
6.5CM has close to the same barrel life as 300WM, and 6.8x51 is much hotter so I anticipate the barrel life will be even less, or at least similar.
The sig looks sick with that b5 stock
Thanks for bringing us entertaining and pertinent info my man love what you do
Great stuff as always brother! Enjoy seeing new cartridges and tech.
I’d like to see you do a 12” 6.5 Grendel along with testing the zeros.
oh man really enjoyed this one! Stretching short barrels to longer ranges is great stuff!
I always learn watching your videos. Keep up the amazing work.
CIAO! I live in Italy and I envy you a lot :D thanks to your videos I'm starting to understand something about long distance shooting (I'm currently an IPSC sports shooter). Thanks again
I’d love to see a video where you compare shooting with the Wilcox Raptar vs hand held LRF for unknown distances. I haven’t seen that done and would love to see how a weapon mounted competes vs hand held. Thanks for the great content! Merry Christmas!
FINALLY Someone got a good vid with a comparison! Thanks! Well done sir.
Just wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm and just reinforce the fact that I love your videos and the way you speak to the camera in such a clear and concise way.
Thank you! Really appreciate the support! Lots of fresh content coming so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica 100% can't wait!
Awesome test, one that many people have been waiting for!
Hope the video delivered the kind of value you were looking for! Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
Quickly becoming my favorite channel. Good stuff man
Exciting to hear you’re enjoying the content! Tons of new stuff in the works for 2024 so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
Im stoked to hear these podcasts!
I believe they are on deck for release in Jan on the texas predator hunting channel. Stay tuned!
That 6.5 is definitely impressive all things considered.
That’s really impressive real world performance from the hybrid round and the M7 rifle. Basically 20” 270 Winchester performance.
Yup. 24" .270 Win data with a 150gr is in the 2810-2920fps region.
The 135gr EPR load chrono'd 2900fps with a LabRadar, which is smokin'. Would make a heavy DM AR-10 carbine with difficult sight picture recovery.
Definitely something you wouldn't want to issue to Joes in the line, not at 9.8lbs empty and 20rd mags.
@@LRRPFco52 I'm willing to bet that what will end up happening is the spear phases out the M110/M110A1s, and provides another "tool in the toolbox" for similar missions where the SCAR had been used. I don't see it going further than that. IMO if anything, the MCX in 5.56 has the best likelihood of actually replacing the M4/M16.
This is the kinda test I've been hoping to see. Thx
Glad to hear you enjoyed it! Hope it delivered the value you are looking for!
The fact that they have standard brass with lower pressures for training says a lot about barrel life and ammo costs
It’s cool how well it performs with that short barrel. You mentioned the recoil briefly, which all things considered can probably me overcome?
It seems practical for a general purpose rifle with say an LPVO. Thanks for the coverage!
-Isaac
Like always, great great video!!!
Very cool comparison
This shows why the fury was chosen
As of right now the fury cartridge has better SBR performance then any other currently available........ All thanks to the 80k pressure standard and it will only increase from there
You give this longer barrel lengths and your performance increases a good margin bow according to SIG you can get 3000 from a 16" and 3200 from a 24" even if thats off thats still borderline or actual magnum cartridge level performance from a cartridge the size of 308......
I'm not sure if it become the standard small arm for the us military especially in the near future...... what I do see though is this replacing the 308 in military service as it simply better in every way........ also remember the hybrid case design us just that, a design SIG could do this to any cartridge they have already implied such potential and they filed a lot if patents so its locked up
Great video. Thanks.
Interesting. Enjoying your content. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you as well! Really glad to hear you’re enjoying the content… lots more in the works so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
“Impact to the face” is the most beautiful thing to hear after first contact!
Ha not exactly where I intended for that round to go but I’ll take it!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica THATS the best place to put that round tho!! LOL Shis goes sideways, I would want you in MY squad! That's for damn sure!
Great video. Compare content is always good.
Botha are amazing rifles. Although I’m partial to the peanut butter color. I just picked up a AR10 Armalite with a 14.5 pinned and welded barrel. Chambered in 308 Winchester. Thinking about changing the barrel to 6.5 Creedmoor. PSA has an amazing deal that I couldn’t pass up on the rifle.
Great stuff buddy. Would love to see a 12.5 6.5 CM with a light, medium, and heavy gr load if you get the time
Good content, thank you.
Awesome video
Good to see the XM7 performs well as a DMR. I think for a general purpose rifle it’s a bit much, but the package you get vs an AR10 is undeniably an upgrade in flat range performance.
Really curious to see how it does against body armor.
I don't think the army should replace all M4s with it. Maybe 1 or 2 M7s per squad but no more. The M250 will easily outperform the M240.
@@reyvan3806XM250 doesn't have a quick barrel change feature, so it can't do the job of the M240.
XM250 is meant to replace the M249 SAW. M240 can fire 6.8x51 with a barrel change.
@@reyvan3806 The M7 is for the infantry. The M4 is for everyone else. The infantry makes up 20% of the army.
Why? An AP round will penetrate specific armor.
And the Army never said the 6.8 "Common Cartridge" ... was designed to penetrate Russian & Chinese body armor.
But the Armor did say the 6.8 "Common Cartridge" ... is to match ... the 308 with a long barrel rife ... with a 13 inch barrel ... meaning heavier buillets, longer range, higer terminal velocity & KE.
The NGWS ... is about replacing the 556 & 762 ... with a .... Common Cartridge .... that can be use by all squad weapons of the Close Combat Forces.
The M4 & M249 ... can not use the 308, 6.5 CM or 6.8 CC.
And the 556, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel .. can not match ... the 308 or 6.8 CC M110 & M240.
pretty impressed with the 6.5 all things considered
The higher pressure allows for faster-burning powders. Not only will they perform better in shorter barrels than lower-pressure cartridges, but they will also burn barrels less.
Great video
This is the first time I have seen your video, I really enjoyed your straight forward presentation. Well done and I look forward to future posts from you.
Great comparison
Thank you!
Merry Christmas
Love your channel and content brother.
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel
Have you ever played with the mbus pro LR rear sight? I think testing different ammo and maybe diff sight lengths could be a good video
Thanks 👍
Awesome video! Very cool comparison, I wonder how the 16” sig spear would do.
16" is like 270 Winchester in long barrel.
Impressed by the steady hold, I can see my heart beat in the scope. Any suggestions on getting that under control? Thanks.
Learn to shoot in between heart beats.
Awesome content that nobody else even thinks of doing! I’ve always had this question since the NGWS contract came out; what if they did the hybrid case on other cartridges such as 6.5 CM
I feel like it’s only a matter of time….. seems like an easy way to improve performance. The tricky part would be making sure rifles are compatible with the higher pressure ammo. It would be a bad day if you accidentally touched off a 90k psi hybrid round in an old school rifle only designed to handle 60k psi
Right. Even a common rifle such as a Remington 700 isn’t designed for that. Another thing that bothers me is that I feel like they didn’t need to go to a bigger heavier platform to get what they wanted…. Imagine a 6 ARC with hybrid technology out of a much lighter SPEAR LT (or any ar15 sized platform)…. But much of what the military does is politics… also, do you think reloading is possible for us civilians with hybrid cases? Might be tricky with sizing
@@chasebricker639Think about a Hybrid 5.56 case that is necked up to 6mm or 6.5mm. If you could get Creedmoore like ballistics out of that little case you’d really have something.
Looked into it......... The 6.5 creedmoor loads used here are CUSTOM loads effectively handloads says so on their site aka they are likely over SAMMI pressure which would also explain the performance...be safe and keep a eye for pressure signs if you use these folks
Thank you.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch!
Video Idea: after the 22 arc comes into production do you think you would want to do a comparison of 22arc vs 204 vs 22-250.
Thinking about the elevation difference the .2 mils is also with a much heavier bullet so flatter with a lower bc & heavier round is really eye opening
That is cooking with that 277
Pretty epic to be supersonic past 1000yds with a 13” barrel! Has me thinking I might want one of these in the future if the cost of ownership comes down.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I’m just thinking about an 18” bolt gun lol
Merry Christmas brother…wish you the best
Thank you! Merry Christmas to you as well!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica after gettin the hornady bullets library paper in mail I see a .270wsm I’d like to try…and one been researching is the .243wssm and .300rem saum…just a few that grabbed my eye..but my 6.5prc takes same 95gr v max the wssm shoots and slings it 300fps faster at over 3600 but that’s at the very limit of pressure and hard on brass…I’m bout to set phone up on slo mo to catch one impacting a bottle…I don’t have Facebook or any social media or I’d send you the vid if it turns out lol
Interesting comparison. I wish you could have used a 142 grain Hornady ED-X Precision Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor.
I would love to see how the XM7 with the 277 Fury perform at Texas Plinking 1 MOA at 1000 yds challenge
I was totally impressed with the performance of the Sig MCX Spear .277 fury rifle. I then looked at the cost of the rifle and it is at $8000. The comparison is almost worthless, considering the extreme difference in the cost of the rifles. This is not even an apples to oranges comparison. It’s more like saltine crackers to a T-bone steak comparison.
It’s not the rifle he’s comparing. As of right now it’s the only rifle that shoots .277 when other manufacturers eventually start chambering guns in this caliber the prices will drop to normal prices.
It’s 8k because our govt overpays for everything.
@rich1958 yeah realistically if it didn't have a mil contract it would be 2.5-4k
Off with his head; so much for Buckingham, no i ment Trigger cam, did it failed totally? Nice review, more of the please🤝🏻
I like to see the advancement in technology. I think it's going to take availability of affordable ammunition before I'll adopt it.
The purple screen from the TRIGGERCAM is an indicator that the “Flex Cable” came loose. Generally from the camera getting hit. Happened to me and the TRIGGERCAM company warrantied it.
Like to see you do 308 short barrels like you did with 5.56
If you want something that's going to hit harder, shoot flatter and penetrate better than 6.5 CM, go with 6mm CM or .243 Winchester.
My 6mm AR10 launches 100 grain soft points at 3,000 fps, and that's commercial ammo. The 115 grain match loads I run for long range are also moving at 3k fps, and with a G1 BC of over 0.58, it's a crazy good round, and it smokes .308 in every category ballistically over distance.
What barrel is your ar10
@theprfesssor 22 in fluted X-Caliber barrel chambered in .243 Winchester, rifle length gas. I can't remember which profile, exactly, I went with, but if memory serves, it was a step down from HBAR.
I like what you're doing. I'd be REALLY curious to see what your thoughts are with the "new" 8.6 Blackout cartridge developed by Q LLC ("Just a barrel swap" for any .308 rifle)
- Kevin Brittingham from Q has been doing a good number of hunting videos... there have also been a few other videos from various sources, but I'm always curious to hear other opinions.
- Barrels are available primarily from Faxon, but there are others (1/3 twist)
- Subsonic (285 - 342 grain) vs Supersonic (210 grain) [bullet weights are from what's been available from Gorilla Ammunition. but there are a couple other companies making ammo.]
- 12" barrel vs 16" barrel.... since it's really designed/optimized for short barrels, is it worth considering a long barrel option under certain circumstances? if you do go to a longer barrel, at what point might you have to potentially be "concerned" about a cartridge that's designed to be subsonic, going supersonic? (or is there a point where added barrel length isn't going to help increase muzzle velocity?)
- Short range vs long range
A 13 inch barrel rifle hitting at 900 yards eoth that energy is freaking awesome.
Expected more from the Sig....especially running a Leupold Mk 5 compared to a Riton
Great vid. Comment for the algorithm
Exellent.
I actually really like the M7 as an SDMR like that M110A1 SDMR variant. (With the exception of that ridiculous side charger…)
Something with greater range, terminal effectiveness and the capability to defeat armor to supplement the infantry squad’s firepower, absolutely!
A replacement for a light, high capacity assault rifle with controllable automatic recoil, the M7 does not make.
The issues with the M7 as a fighting rifle are a call back to the M14 in Vietnam. Heavy, uncontrollable at a high fire rate putting it at a disadvantage in an ambush, low ammunition capacity and heavy ammunition. The only problem that isn’t coming back in the M7 is a wood stock that swells in humidity causing a point of impact shift.
If the Army really wants a next generation weapon system, how about we bring the M4A1 out of 2001 and give it the modern capability the civilian market and SAF have enjoyed over the past decade.
I am very in interested in your experience or thoughts on the DD5v4 in 308.
Ahh alas, the 14.5 creedmoor test.
By far the best Guntuber we currently have.
Hope the video delivered the value you were looking for! Really appreciate the support. Lots more content just like this on the way so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I'll be here for it
I like the SIG a lot, but there's a lot of talk that the NGSW program might fizzle. And it might. But it's a great proof-of-concept of the hybrid ammo tech (ammo itself, and the materials science to make bolts and barrels that can handle it).
SIG says the 6.8x51 Spear can handle over 100k PSI and maintain decent barrel life, so there's a lot of headroom left there, and by all reports the .277 Fury hybrid ammo SIG is selling commercially isn't as hot as the milspec ammo, not even hitting 80k PSI.
But imagine a bolt and barrel upgraded 14.5" M4 slinging 5.56 at 80k+ PSI. That's a more likely future for wide adoption in a service rifle, you get the flatter shooting, increased range and penetration, but can keep weights and length down and still carry a lot of ammo. Would not surprise me to see the piston Spear LT in ".223 Fury" be a thing one day either.
SIG did a 5,56 hybrid case.
Hell yeah!
I just shot out to 600 yards the other day with great success thanks to your videos. One issue I had was spotting my impacts on the berm at the family farm. Any tips on how to spot splash or what I can improve on the berm?
Oh man this could be a long answer… first thing might be your berm. Are you shooting into bare dirt or is there grass/ vegetation on the berm? If so, cut that vegetation down as low as possible. If the vegetation is tall it’ll be super hard to spot impacts.
There’s no vegetation but a bunch of leaves from the fall. Should I rake them off and rake the dirt to break it up, or is it better to keep it solid?
being a rifle with a military pedigree, it served as a civilian hunter's rifle
I thought it would have 1.5 or 2 moa like the 7mm version, but it was great
Do you find the 277 is louder and has more muzzle blast? It doesn't seem like the fury has enough benefit to make it worth it ballically over the already excellent 6.5 creedmoor. Out to 1000 they are both pretty awesome in these short barrels it seems
They should have made 264 fuury there really is something magical about 6.5 diameter bullets.They’ve been using 6.5 all over the world for hunting for 100 yrs.Traveling at 6.5 Grendel velocities to kill huge game.A 140ish to 150 gr in hybrid case would have been the answer.But hey I’m a Texas hick what do I know
Great video! Wish a better 6.5CM ammo were used. Seems LMT does not like this load
Really happy with the SD and ES this load provided out of the 6.5 but the group isn’t as tight as I’d like to see. After filming this video I found this barrel seems to like 140 gr ammo a little better so all of my new content with this barrel will be with a 140 gr load. Not an issue with the ammo load, just think this barrel prefers the heavier pills.
Is the riton the 7 conquer or is the 3 or 5? Hows the glass? Also is that hybrid sig case able to resize for reloading purposes or is it like steel case 1 and done?
Podcast coming soon I would think.
For sure! I believe they are scheduled for release after first of the year. Stay tuned, I had a blast hanging with Wade and the ally crew!
As you get shorter and shorter barrels on the 6.5 CM did you increase the twist rate, or did you keep the same twist rate?
Jeez i wonder how much that sig weighs and how much velocity it'd get out of 16" barrel
Do you know how to get the Spear in that caliber-reasonably?
Pretty cool video between the 277 v 6.5 CM.
I have a LMT MWS as well that I got from 10 years ago. Where did you acquire the 14.5” 6.5 CM barrel? I was thinking of getting a shorter 16” from the 20” 6.5 CM that I currently have.
Thanks, awesome vid as always.
One my my IG followers reached out and offered to sell me this 14.5” barrel…. Not sure where it was originally sourced from. Since filming this video I’ve found the barrel shoots 140gr bullets much better than what’s shown in this video… wish I would’ve realized that before filming this one haha
@@MountainsMulletsMericaany plans to do an update? I’d suggest using identical scopes too
@@MountainsMulletsMericaI see. Thats pretty interesting. I don’t see that barrel spec on LMT’s website. Thanks.
I know my current 20” 6.5 CM barrel setup likes the 140s. One of my favorite rifles to shoot.
Actually my first rifle on my first local long range match that I did pretty decent performance on.
Is the sound from the suppressor on the .277 like a 5.56 suppressed?
Great video. Just curious if and how much you load your bipod from the prone position. And does it help if you are.
For sure I load my bipod but it’s hard to describe the amount. I lean into it decently heavy….. might have to make a video describing this in more detail. 100% loading the bipod makes a difference and in my opinion is a must for controlling recoil and spotting your own shots.
100% agree with everything you stated. Getting consistent loading on bipod is an issue which I think affects group size. So many rabbit holes to get into. 😂
I expected tighter 100-yard groups out of both rifles. Are you in texas?
Everyone doing comparisons with the .277 Fury seems to ignore the 600lb gorilla in the room. The special 3-piece case ammo for the .277 is going to be MUCH more expensive than any simple brass cased round. When you multiply this cost per round by the number of rounds required to train soldiers and the number required to be stockpiled in case of war - the cost in ammo alone, let alone rifles will be astronomical. I would be willing to bet that there are other suitable, well performing rounds that are much more economical.
Just wonder what the 277 Fury brass looked like after firing? Ton of speed and pressure for a short barrel.
Is the furry an FMJ round?
In this case he’s using the Sig 150 grain bonded polymer tip round
What’s the twist rate on the 277 fury rifle ?
Guys, where is the best place to get 1000rd 556 ?
Did you buy that barrel at 14.5? Or have it cut?
I’m really considering one just like this.
Where do I get a Leopold scope without a reticle? Faster target acquisition 😂
Was very interesting with the new 277. How did you like the Garmin zero?
The garmin is epic. 100% worth the hype… will be parking my magnetospeed and moving exclusively to the garmin
@@MountainsMulletsMerica yes, with you shooting with a suppressor’s on all the time I can see where the Garmin Xero would be a lot better setup
Is the .277 Fury available yet for the civilian market?
I was beside you and yet still found my self saying, shoot the rabbit . 😆
I'm not sure the test is of value, great video, but not sure where it is going. I shoot a 6 and 6.5 Creedmoor with nothing less than a 26" heavy barrel. These calibers excel with the longer barrels spinning those long VLD bullets like the Berger 109g long range hybrid targets. My 6 Creedmoor shoots a ragged hole at 200. It was never designed for shorties. Why would anyone even make a short barreled Creedmoor?
Been very interested in the sig suppressor…what are your overall impressions? Worth the cash? Muzzle devices hard to find? Carbon Lock? Anything you can share is much appreciated there’s not much out there about these cans
I wish I could get you the answers you are looking for but this is my first time ever using a sig suppressor so I have essentially zero actual experience. That said, my initial impressions are positive but again I just ran a handful of rounds through a borrowed rifle/ suppressor.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica BTW…this was an excellent video I really enjoyed watching your content is getting better with every video keep it up!…good to know about your experience so far…I’m not much of a Hux fan so looking for solid alternatives..hypothetically assuming Hux doesn’t exist based on what you know today would you consider this new sig?
What reticle are you running in the Leupold? Do you like it?
TMR reticle, I don’t recall his thoughts on it.
Im in the process of building the 6.5cm 14.5" , is that a factory LMT barrel or did you have one made?
This is a factory 14.5” barrel
Santa i want a 277 fury now :)
Pretty much how I feel as well… I was skeptical at best before shooting it out to distance but now I’m hooked. 13” barrel laying down supersonic performance well past 1000 yds is epic
I suspect the XM7 will end up just like the M14, sitting in the back of the arms room collecting dust. Look at what the m4 block 2 with 77 grain can do. Now look at the weight of the rifle and a combat load. If you need to shoot past 600 meters that's what your medium machine guns, having machine guns, and mortar teams are for. The xm7 doesn't really make sense for where it sits in the combined arm strategy.
It seems almost every person (at least on the internet) agrees the M7 is definitely too heavy and too harsh recoiling to be the infantry weapon. DMR for sure