What Bojack Horseman Teaches Us About Character Development
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Come check out the writing techniques that transformed Mr. Peanutbutter across the series.
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Music-
Tycho: A Walk
Silent Partner: Ticker
Lish Groves: At Depth
Emily A Sprague: Meeting Again
After All: Geographer
Slight correction for the video: Static Characters and Flat characters are similar, but not strictly the exact same. “Static” describes whether a character changes or not. “Flat” describes whether a character is complex (has multiple traits) or not. Usually they go together, but now always!
*not
Yeah, I was thinking through your video that Peanutbutter is an static character, but not flat. He does not change, and that is his main issue through season 5. Our perception of him is the one that changes, he might change in future seasons since he is starting to realize it. He is complex and we see him reacting to different situations, but he is the same Peanutbutter of episode 1.
Aside from that, great essay. Hope for more character dissections.
A character may change and still be shallow.
Hey savage, can you tell us what other shows or movies have similar complexity to thier characters like bojack horseman?
The video format was on point, you did a good job
Mr. peanutbutter did NOT handle his problems head on! He is more positive but he avoids his problems as much as Bojack.
I'd say it's even worse. Bojack is pretty shitty and bad at it but Bojack is actually trying to fix his problems and he's making very slow progress. He HAS run from problems before, but he's come back to face them sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. Bojack is actually seeking solutions and resolutions, though he's broken and really bad at it. My Peanutbutter has done nothing but run from every problem since day 1 and he directly says that him cheating with Diane is the first time he's ever felt bad about anything he's done despite the neglect and shitty things he's done previously.
I don't even think Mr Peanutbutter is more positive. By his own words he's just trying to keep himself distracted from the frustration, anger, pain, and hopelessness. "The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead." But when serious events happen he lets on that he's upset about alot of things he's been refusing to acknowledge, talk about, or deal with. So he doesn't even succeed at his own ideal, just a pale superficial surface deep parody of it.
Ralathar Renares Which is what tends to happen when people don’t acknowledge their own or others suffering. While Bojack will have one of 3 reactions to someone else suffering, 1) blame himself 2) try and belittle their suffering 3) full hearted but shitty talk, Mr PB will have Look! Shiny!, Spin! Spin! Spin!, Erika!! Which legit makes me begin to wonder at this point if there even is an Erika or if he made up a person to get him out of uncomfortable situations and allow him to talk to someone else. People like Mr PB tend to think that if you’re not perfect, you’re a shitty awful horrible person. So his attempt at perfection is to be the positive upbeat guy. Any time someone corrects him on when he is wrong tends to be largely ignored so he can continue to pretend to be perfect.
@Instrumentality1000 how does he think of women tho
I can agree with this based on his history with his former wives and now sadly he's on his way to a 4th marriage based on covering a secret. He's immature and it took the third ex wife, Diane, to actually point out his wives grow up but he doesn't.
Thank-you, exactly
"You didn't know me, and then you fell in love with me. Now you know me" - Bojack Horseman
This line perfectly applies to Mr. PB.
Maybe he will use that term himself in the next season.
...everyone
actually makes sense
Hoku The Overwatch Editor yup
Deep reflection...
Character Classification:
1. Zoey
2. Zelda
I was actually expecting him to say this.
3. Link
4. Mario
I'm still not sure which one I am!!
that was legit the funnier thing i heard today
5. Ganondorf
6. Sidon
When Bojack was strangling Gina, mr. Peanut butter was the first to actually jump into action. He was the first to respond and realize it was serious. I don't exactly know why, but that hit me. I feel like he is more of a serious character beneath the surface.
I always saw that moment as him trying to save the idea he has of his 'idol', Bojack, specially with how he says "Bojack! Buddy..." right before; it's how much he fears the idea that Bojack is that bad that allows him to actually go stop him while others are in shock from seeing an actor strangle another.
@@driveasandwich6734 That's a very ungenerous view of his actions.
@@driveasandwich6734 or he said it to bojack to gently de-escalate a situation he was still processing before intervening in a way that actually ended it
@@driveasandwich6734 that's an interesting and compelling analysis
@@driveasandwich6734 Maybe it's even deeper. It is a running joke that Mr Peanutbutter sees himself and Bojack as complete equals - maybe he purposefully ignores all of Bojack's red flags... because what would that make him?
PB's depression and extroversion go hand in hand. He lives vicariously through other people. He feels the need to surround himself with other people, because he can't handle being alone. He gets super invested in the lives of other people, because he can't deal with his own emotions. He makes grand gestures and coddles the people he's with, because he wants so much for them to be happy that he ignores what is actually important. He pretends there's no problem. He sweeps issues under the rug. Everything is fine. This pattern of behavior is toxic to the people he is with (so much so that it destroys four marriages in a row), but the person it is most toxic to, is himself.
Even though it doesn't seem so at first, he really is the best possible person in Hollywoo to be the face of depression, because depression doesn't always manifest in obvious ways. With his constantly optimistic attitude and the way he gleefully fraternizes with everyone around him, he doesn't look depressed at all, but the second he's alone, he...he doesn't know what to do with himself. He starts panicking. Desperation sets in. He jumps headfirst into a relationship with the first girl to show affection. Rebounding out of one relationship and into another. It isn't until he's finally forced to be alone and independent that he learns how to be happy with himself. And it especially hits hard because it reminds me of someone I know.
Oh this was a good analysis. Pretty on track to being this for a second, there
I wonder if the letter D for Diane was more symbolic than we thought
Great analysis. I've honestly never thought of Mr pb as such a complex character (he always gave me the impression of a "lesser" lead) but to ur comment has helped me to see greater depths to his character
I couldn’t agree more. Unlike many people here I disliked MrPB in the beginning, but as the show unfolded I also came to the conclusion that it must have been hard to be him, that he was depressed too, cuz as we know some people do cover their depression up with positivity
Is he pretending or moving past it. Also does he really jump is more at “peace” with the situation. Has he moved on already? Pretend and ignore are tow different concepts. He ignores things, rather than pretends to.
Honestly no Bojack is. And that’s because his is obvious. It is unknown whether Mr is actually depressed or is dealing with a different form of mentality. There clear signifiers for depression anything else is a completely different case.
"it really just felt like the more time i spent with mr. peanutbutter, and the more i learned about him, the less i liked him on a personal level"
sums up all his ex wives.
Sums up what people think about me
This is especially true when I think about Diane, I dislike her now.
ROBB SCHOLAR Same last seasons she has been kind of a bitch she got mad when mr peanut butter bites her something she had dreamed of having
Kind of funny that that's the thing bojack says about himself to his owl friend, but appears to only fulfill this out of self sabotage
@@RobbScholarTube Diane talk is interesting. While I like her in season 1 way more than in any other seasons, I feel more apathetic towards her than outright negative. I see how she's not being as vulnerable or genuine as she was before, whereas the other characters have only expanded in that regard, but I still love the Diane that we initially met, and I still find her situation compelling.
I mean, the dude had like 3 ex wives all much younger than him and you guys really tought he was healthy? The red flags were there since the beggining of the show
When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, sometimes red flags just look like flags.
O
Technically, they were both adults. Either that, or I'm just bad at paying attention.
@@whateveryouremadatmeforido5497 they are, they're in their 20's, he's about 40 now
@@ggittins4097 20 years old is an adult.
Is it just me, or is how we see Mr. Peanutbutter (sweet and awesome in seasons 1,2, and 3, but kinda douchey/full on douche in seasons 4 and 5) the same exact way all his wives saw him before they divorced??? It seems like the more you get to know Mr. Peanutbutter, the more you generally dislike him (both in the show and in real life).
It honestly seems that the writers forced it to be that way
I thought the same thing!
Nibara Forced? Even early episodes hinted that he focused on the shallow because he’s addicted to being happy and being the good guy, “You’re not going to find it in these horrible, made up places” how awful is that to say in reality? He will acknowledge something is horrible and awkward to do and then do it anyway (such as joining a table during a messy break up) because *he* wants attention.
@@SerenityM16 I didn't know being oblivious was so malevolent
Me personally; I always thought of him as just as bad as Bojack
this is why Princess Caroline has always been my favorite character lol
Same!
@@miraarsinkathar9315 0
Personally I think Princess Caroline is the most adjusted. Shes not perfect but shes able to be around all of that and she seems to cope well with it all and not get ruined by it all. Her fertility problems did a major strain on her but she stayed focused and kept on.
@@shirel.a8421 same that's why i love her :))
TL;DR: Carolyn is just as broken as the rest (just with more benefits) and i worry for her child.
Honestly i think PC has just as much of a problem as Mr.PB. She's addicted to fixing things and finding solutions. This whole show seems to show certain characters that have "healthy" addictions that come with benefits but ultimately lead to serious problems down the line, maybe as an allegory for how we are all just broken people that somehow manage to help others even with unhealthy habits guiding us.
It doesn't really seem like she takes the time to really sit down and really let what's ailing her sink in to establish where she is in life and what can be done. She seems to hop to the closest problem that has a potential way to be fixed and just does it. It does work out well in a lot of cases; she's an awesome agent and generally brings people up/keeps people afloat but it comes at a cost of not really self analyzing properly and finding new and better mindsets around issues.
Her newest arc has me worried, I think next season will be her "downfall" arc. Her pursuit of a child didn't seem to stem from any deep rooted self analysis beyond remembering her past and then jumping to the first solution to come to mind. I'm happy she finally got her baby but at the same time feel like a lot of red flags got shown leading up to it; she denied Ralph's help and even inspired that other girl to do the same (which, while empowering, is very self serving for said empowerment instead of acknowledging of the kid in question), she literally names the baby "Untitled Princess Carolyn Project" and, i mean, she's not entirely wrong, raising a kid is basically a project but the wording really is neglectful of whatever potential mindset the child will go through being brought up by an adopted mother as well as the "person" part of the child itself, he's not just Carolyn's project, he's his own person that will face (and develop) his own personal demons.
Overall it feels like the writers have set up the perfect situation to explore the dark underbelly of adoption and the selfishness surrounding it. I honestly think PC will make it work, she's still a great character that finds solutions and doesn't mope, whine and/or ignores problems but there will be plenty of really bad bumps on that road because of how "surface" her fixes are. If I would be able to sum up PC's worst trait I would say that she doesn't really listen, not truly. She listens just enough to formulate a solution and closes off further exploration of the real problem from there. She can give Bojack the best gigs but she never sat down and listened to find out that better and better gigs aren't really helping him at all.
I never realized but holy shit PB's arc was pure goddam genius.
Wolf Gangster i agree!!
the ones that I really liked were for Bojack's mom, Todd, Princess Carolyn, and Diane. I still don't know how I feel about Hollyhock Manheim-Mannheim-Guerrero-Robinson-Zilberschlag-Hsung-Fonzerelli-mcquack
McDonald’s
@@theminuteman6211 right? I feel like she came too late for me to know how to feel and Bojack's situation with Penny and their relationship as brother and sister instead of father and daughter complicated their dynamic too much I think. They didn't have much time together but I think hollyhock was introduced less to be her own character for us to love but more for Bojack's development and to be able to have an easy in to speaking on young adult issues. Hollyhock to me is pretty much exactly what she needs to be, a true SIDE character rather than essentially a co-star like the other characters are.
Reverse redemption arc
I noticed that Mr. Peanut butter was always up to some big venture when another character was trying to get ahead. It’s like he was always trying to cluelessly outshine everyone when they were at a low point. There were numerous times that he did this with Bojack, but that was partially misconstrued by Bojack’s envy. The main example I can think of from a later season was when he called Diane to brag that he had just published his own book (which everyone would buy because he’s famous) right at the same time as she had recently gotten published. To make it even worse, after being married to Diane for so long and knowing how she used to struggle, he just tells her casually, “Haha! Who knew writing was so easy?” Those were just bits and pieces of his unintentional egotism where he’s too caught up in his own world to notice what might bother somebody else.
There was also that time Diane was so happy about her new blog and he said they were both doing great things (regarding saving Ocean City) and destroyed her momentary confidence
@@kelseyj.c7828 He also does the same thing when the roles are reversed, like with the Jessica Biel hating avocados thing
One of the biggest warning signs you'll ever see about someone is if they "help" you, or "do something nice", after you clearly told them no. It's something I've become really jumpy about. There is no good outcome for you when someone does it to you. If you give in, you've allowed them to dismiss your wishes and set a precedent of them stepping over your boundaries. If you insist on declining their help, you become the asshole who was rude to a person "just trying to help you". Whether you needed or wanted it or not. It's manipulative. It's a huge red flag. Some people do it accidentally because they never learned good boundaries, and for some people, it's a sign that there's more of your boundaries they'll choose to ignore if it benefits them. Mr Peanutbutter was jangling those warning bells from the very beginning.
This is important as fuck. I'm honestly a very Mr Peanutbutter kind of guy with the way I show love and deal with my problems. I could relate to how Bojack felt on a real level, but who i tried to display to much of the world was Mr. Peanutbutter. Grand gestures, not being told no, "I just wanna help you," or "Come on it'll be great!" I never realised how destructive that behavior was and knowing it now, I wouldve told myself to fix it. I wish I knew how to give love in the way it wanted to be received by others and I wish I realised boundaries weren't only physical
I'm totally okay with being perceived as rude, when it comes to that situation.
I like to think I can read people well, and I just was so put off by someone I worked "under".
They insisted CONSTANTLY on paying for my meals, or giving me an extra minute. It never felt genuine. The words felt hollow and rehearsed.
The phrase, "you'll get me next time." was uttered by this person to my coworker and that was a big red flag.
I found out that this person actually NO LONGER was my superior as they were forced to step down for not being able to handle the pressures of management.
But they still acted as if they had the status, and were in the habit of forcing people to do as they said.
The phrase, "no, I'm good." Became my mantra, and they didn't know how to react to me.
What do you do, when your fellow employee doesn't listen to you, AND everyone else thinks you're a manager. Literally nothing, because the moment they tried to pull rank, it would have come out they had none to pull.
So they just labelled me as difficult and "not a team player". Thankfully the actual management heard from my other coworkers as well as had first had experience of me being the exact opposite as reported.
What ended up happening was exactly what I thought. This person was buying cheap meals and giving extra minutes to coworkers, then guilting or blackmailing them into paying for expensive meals and/or taking their shifts.
I felt the manipulation a mile away, and I flatly refused over and over again the "generosity" and "favors". Many of my coworkers ended up quitting because they were so stressed out in the end.
I'll take looking rude, any day of the week.
Your advice is spot on, be VARY wary of those that overstep and pressure you to take their "kindnesses".
and this exact point right here is the perfect example of toxic positivity!
AH someone from my elementary who I agreed to hang out with did that. We entered a store (4 of us) and I pointed out there was a shirt I liked but would order online later. He kept saying ‘I can buy it for you’ or ‘No let me’ and I kept saying no and after that we went to the movies, which was alright. I was getting to my car where my mom was waiting and before I got in he said ‘no hug for me?’ I was embarassed and I gave him one because I didn’t want to seem rude with my mom right there and his friend there. A week later, he sent me a text and sent a picture that he had bought the shirt. Very uncomfortable. Given he said it was a birthday gift, but I had never really spoken or hung out with him since middle school until last summer. He also keeps wanting to show up to my games (sports) when he isn’t involved and I don’t ask him to be there, so more discomfort there. I didn’t get the shirt and I’m not asking for it. I told him to return it before I also told him that I was uncomfortable with his actions. Haven’t spoken since.
Yep. Without malicious intent, it's probably co-codependency and/or fear of abandonment (insecure attachment) and definitely someone who needs to understand boundaries better. 🖐️ I'm third generation co-dependent and I've spent several years re-training myself after learning the hard way.
I really wish they taught this stuff in school: Red flags, narcissism, boundaries, healthy coping mechanisms, conflict resolution, communication, etc.
PB’s character is interesting because when you look hard enough, all the warning signs are there. He can’t take no for an answer, he’s conniving, but it’s so easy to ignore when all of those things are bundled up into a bright, energetic character that’s contrasted so heavily with Bojack. That’s one thing I like about this show. There’s no good guys and no bad guys, really. Just people at different levels of shitty.
People will read this and interpret it as: "that means I can consider the character I identify most as the LEAST shitty, which basically also means I'M the BEST person out of everyone 😎"
Ngl I feel like Todd is a pretty good person tbh… just slightly dumb :P
@@vi9486 fr I fully believe tod is good 😌
Nah, there's actually good guys and bad guys.
@@brzt4256 You 🧠n't?
My favorite part of the Mr.Peanutbutter character arch is going back and rewatching previous seasons and seeing that those insidious traits were always there, especially in the way he treated Diane and her friendship with Bojack
I've watched the show at least 8-10 times and I started to relazie that how I face my problems were sort of like Bojack and PB and over Time watching it I started to hate PB... But I actually like him to...
I understand some of his points because Bojack was obviously in love with Diane. So, I understand his fears regarding that, but he should have also trusted Diane and the fact that she had no thoughts of cheating on him.
@Instrumentality1000 I totally agree with all your points. I also cannot wait to see how Mr Peanutbutter tries to keep this from Pickles. The truth will come out!
@Instrumentality1000 how are they similar? how is Diane narcissistic or bad?
@@vsatonthebeat4101
She's been shown to be hypocritical and spiteful several times
Fantastic. I didn't catch onto Mr PB until the Belle episode myself. I WANTED him to be that fun and lovable goof so I ignored some of the warning signs. That's scarily real to life right there. After finishing S4 I had to re-evaluate his entire character and I was not pleased by what I found. He's a great and fantastically written character, but he's just as broken as everyone else on that show. I think he's at actual risk of suicide to be honest.
I never considered him to be at risk of suicide, but you got a great point there. He'll probably ignore his brokenness untill it's far to late if he keeps his way of dealing with problems
Wonder Women The truth will come out and eventually, his lies will break, and so will the mask
Omg, I didn’t even realize the whole thing about red flags you tend to over look because you want to believe theme
Honestly I don't think Diane is the right girlfriend/wife for any of the characters. She is constantly worried that she'll justify bad behaviour and talks around it. Hell she met a mirror when in Vietnam of sorts. Much of the time she'll be a good friend but she isn't quite right to be a girlfriend. Todd does stupid stuff but is smart enough to realise and isn't a liar. Caroline is my fave though.
@@ADerpyReality she needs like actual therapy cuz her last therapist was shit. That way she can have a healthy relationship with someone her own age instead of someone going through a midlife crisis. I can see Mr. Peanutbutter and Diana getting back together after alot of therapy and time alone but Mr. Peanutbutter needs to grow up and figure out his shit as well.
Mr. PB really doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but he hurts the people he loves most all the time anyway. I love him as a character; he's a fantastic and very realistic representation of what a poorly-trained labrador retriever is like.
how he hurt people though people throw word hurt or abuse over the little things these days hard too tell
Did anyone else notice In S1 E12 when Diane is talking to Mr.PB about going to Cordova he says to her
“The universe is a cruel uncaring void.
The key to being happy isn’t to search for meaning. It’s to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense and eventually you’ll be dead?”
This seems like his own approach to life and should’ve been the first clue about his true character.
I don't want to be that person like 'I saw it all along hurr durr' but I did see that even in season 1 when Mr. Peanutbutter kept giving diane parties she didn't want and he proposed to her just to secretly tape it that was kind of douchey from the start I related so hard to diane it was hard for me to like him period and when bojack stole the d and he took the credit which diane also didn't like? How was that likable? I never liked him sorry
Rewatching the analysis and kind of funny how the IGN article claimed “Mr PB faces his problems head on” meanwhile he seems to do a ton more running away than Bojack does
I think those things /were/ supposed to be unlikeable since of course shit like that is bad. However, before season 4, the audience didn’t /know/ PB. So his actions, while shitty, seemed unintentionally harmful.
A lot of his actions could easily be brushed off as ‘well he was just excited!’ or ‘he just wanted to make her happy!’ And this he was never seen as terrible or on the same level as Bojack. Plus he acts and behaves happier than Bojack does, and thus we are led to believe that he doesn’t intentionally cause harm he is just “””quirky”””
But after season 4 we get to know PB and realize he is the same, if not worse, than Bojack. Bojack has regret but PB doesn’t.
@@MA-gq1rq I think the difference in season 1 was that it was easy to chalk it up to being naive and a dumbass, kind of like how a lot of Todd's attempts at doing good things backfire. Over time, we came to realize that it wasn't just naivete but callousness.
I hated that situation with the d. Made me feel so oddly envious.
@@darkgirl9706 I don't know if I would say PB is worse because Bojack has regrets whereas PB doesn't. I see what you mean, but I think that in a way, Bojack is worse because he knows that he's toxic and does terrible things, but he just accepts it doesn't really do much to change. I mean, I think they're both damaged, toxic people in their own right but in my experience, it's the people who acknowledge they're terrible and hide behind this "self-awareness" that are the most dangerous. Regrets don't amount to much if you're not putting in the work to do better.
What is this, a very special episode?
U mean a cross over?
I've disliked Mr. Peanutbutter since season one. I very recently figured out that it's because I see a lot of my own disliked traits in him. I'm a recovering "fauner", which is a response to trauma. We are extreme people pleasers and will disregard our own needs and even identities in order to keep the people around us happy. It's a defense mechanism. Left unchecked, it can make someone dishonest and bitter due to constantly repressing and disconnecting from ourselves. We're also prone to making very rash decisions when triggered or panicked. Mr. Peanutbutter's home life confirms this in that his family refused to talk about or deal with any difficulty they may be facing. He never learned how to process his own emotions or handle bumps in relationships. He was taught to avoid everything and just keep himself and the people around him superficially happy, which is why his relationships fall apart once his partners reach a certain age or stage in their life. He's emotionally and socially stunted.
indeed... and I agree. I also think that's why I was so able to pick up on his issues in the first few episodes, with actually seeing partners as other people instead of things that inform him how to be. And when he said he spent all day waiting for Diane to come home, I knew I could be like that with waiting for people to come online... and on some level I knew how it screwed with my relationships, but it was easier to condemn PB than it was too condemn myself.
im struggling with that. 24
True but great thing about PB is that he does't really care so much what other people think of him. He just gives positivity for himself. And natutally gathers people. He is so careless I love him
“As someone who reads asoiaf wiki for fun” dude you have no idea how real it got for a second when you said that
Brian Lowe That’s too much man.
oof that hits a personal level
Absolutely thought I was the only one
And on the final season, when Mr Peanutbutter is taking Bojack from prison, he is another person, a person that dealt with his inner troubles, because he did therapy. Every character dealt with their troubles, even Bojack going to prison and finding peace teaching prisoners. The main plot of the show is: DO THERAPY FOLKS
Well, okay, do you have around 14 mil $ so I can PAY for my therapy?
@@pleasesnapmyneckmommy3048 America
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not gonna lie, PB’s arc is part of what helped me realize what was so toxic about people pleasing tendencies and has encouraged me to be more genuine in my interactions and stop running from social consequences.
Is that really an arc or development though? He doesn’t go from a nice guy to a toxic one. Our perception of him changes.
It's true that he's always been the same, and even though it took 5 seasons to change perception development is still development.
That's the thing, Mr. Peanutbutter doesn't change, he refuses to do so, and at first that's fine, because the situation allows him to be the way he wants to be, but as the situation escalates, he should adapt to maintain his relatonships, but since he is unable to do so everything kinda goes to shit. He has somewhat of a same problem as Bojack does actually, with the "great gesture". Like when he built that big new room for Diane. Instead of listening to what she had to say, and actually taking them into consideration, for example with the parties, and frecking, he always just went on to do some big gesture that he thought would make her happy. Even way back when BoJ stole the D. He kinda wants to be a "magic pixie dreamboy" but since reality isn't that simple, he fails to deliever in most ways, thus ending up in a relationship with a twenty something girl who still idolizes life the way he does. It probably won't take long that to go away besides Mr. Peanutbutter tho, so who knows, he might lose everything, and end up as Bojack. I doubt he will go as sour as he is, but maybe that happy go lucky attitude might lead him to equally unhealthy cooping mechanisms after everything he has left falls apart.
In the end, in the last season he truly developed. Having a break from dating after the end of his and Pickle's relationship and doing a therapy, thus finally not distracting himself but facing the problem
I think this. His personality is always there. You can see from the beginning he loves unconditionally - until oh hey Erica!. He has the attention span of a golden lab. It's not saying he's a bad guy, but it is saying you cannot rely on him.
I know this is a year old comment lol but sometimes a revelation of character is in and of itself the arc. I’d actually argue that the display of Mr. PBs stagnation next to the ever changing and growing cast around him speaks to this
I was so amazed by this character in this show because he reminded me of some real people I know. They are so charming and helpful at first but it's unbearable to be close to them. They don't hurt you intentionally like some villain in sheep's clothing. You just start seeing their true nature - self obsessed narcissists who neglect your feelings and never accept that they could do something wrong.
I really enjoyed that writers developed Mr. PB from just a cheerful dog into a complex realistic character. Great essay!
Mr pb is not exactly like that tho....when he cheated on pickles he apologized and confessed and tried to solve they're problem by literally letting her sleep with multiple ppl... How many ppl can do that ?
This show has pushed me so far into my own darkness I'd literally just shut myself off just to avoid thinking about it. But, that said, is has also helped me recontextualize a lot of those feelings in ways I can see them differently enough to not feel the need to avoid them outright. This show, at times, genuinely scares me.
Game Insane I tried binging this entire show and ended up in my first depressive episode in a long time lol. I still like the show but I anytime I recommend it to anyone I give a disclaimer to watch only a few episodes at a time in order to preserve your sanity
@@obrien98 it fucks you over
Not gonna lie
@@obrien98 after season 3 I KNEW it was gonna get dark. That "Sarah Lynn? Sarah Lynn?" Hit me WAAAAY too hard. I watched it 3 episodes at a time during the day always unless I had someone to cuddle with at night
@@obrien98 yeah I binged this show a few weeks ago when I was preparing to move back to university... It did not help my mental state lmao
Yeah I was beginning a small spiral back into depression right before I started watching. This show has not helped my depression, and has probably made it worse. It may have been a bad decision and I would definitely advise against watching this show for people who may be triggered by this type of thing.
This is super interesting.. It's funny, because I actually hated PB at the start of the show (I even thought he was an antagonist for a while), yet by the last season, I found him growing on me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this show is genius in its character writing and never before have I seen characters in media that were so believable as people. It's incredible that, just like people we meet every day, our own experiences and biases are able to inform our opinions about the characters almost more than what the show tells us about them. We both met the same character, were shown the same information, yet came away with completely different feelings about them.
Also for those wondering why I felt these ways: at the beginning of the show I felt like PB was either incredibly fake, or incredibly unempathetic. As someone who deals with depression, I found myself frustrated with PB's presence in the fact that he seemed to be unaware of the feelings and experiences of those different from his own. By the end of the show though, that denial of other people's struggles is what I saw beginning to break down, when he began to have to confront his own imperfections and insecurities.
Mr. Peanutbutter has always been one of my favorite characters mostly because he reminds me of my childhood Golden Retriever, but I really love the arc that showed that he was just as toxic a person as Bojack while being being opposites personality wise.
I love Mr. Peanutbutter. I thought he was an annoying idiot at first, then I realized he knows exactly what he's doing and he's no Ned Flanders, he's being obnoxious to Bojack on purpose, in a way that he knows will annoy Bojack the most.
It's definitely asshole behavior, but he's so funny while doing it that I love seeing him do it. It might be terrible having someone like that in my life, but he's just too entertaining as a TV character. I like him in a sort of similar way to how people cheered for Walter White and Tony Soprano. He's not an evil character like them but he's a flawed person that's so entertaining it makes me not care if he's a dick.
Agreed
This is exactly how i felt about him! I just perceived him as fake and the definition of stupid and happy go lucky, too imperceptive of others to grasp the severity of a situation. But i liked that they showed him as flawed and screwed up in his ow way.
Maybe it's because I was such an edge lord teen but yea, I fucking HATED Mr. PB like start to end. He fucking sucked to me. He was always selfish, annoying, and aggravating levels of unaware
I gotta say, PB’s character arc was one of the most well written in the show, in my opinion. It’s a stroke of genius- a dog with an addiction for love and approval. I love Mr. Peanutbutter, despite his genuine issues, his writing is amazing.
I dunno, I don't think it's fair to characterize Mr. PB as someone who comes off kind and sweet but is actually a cruel and selfish monster behind the veil. I think all of the bad aspects of his character are intrinsically tied to the qualities that make him seem like such a good and positive person. He's incredibly outgoing and personable -- he thrives when he's around other people. The other side of that coin though is that he can't handle being alone, and so he jumps from relationship to relationship. I also think him not confessing to Pickles reveals a similar downside to being a kind and caring person: having to deal with the crippling fear of letting people down or hurting people. All this to say, I don't think he's an irredeemably bad person. I think his bad qualities make a lot of sense for his character, and because we can identify where they stem from, we can cheer for him and hope to see him do better/redeem himself as his character continues to develop.
I agree when you say the bad aspects of his personality come from what we perceive as his qualities. But he is for sure selfish in a way, we can see it clearly on his relationship with Dianne. He never thought about what she wanted, or saw her for what she really was. He just assumed that the things that make him happy would make her happy, despite she always demonstrating the contrarie
I agree. And at the end of the show he's also learning to be better after becoming a bit more self-aware. He also parallels BoJack's arc that way.
@@lorea3478
I disagree even the bell room though wrong was him trying to give Diane what she wants and especially after she came home after all that time at Bojack's house he was trying to give her space
i totally agree!!
@Instrumentality1000
I get it was a problem but my point is more Mr. Peanutbutter was trying in their marriage he consistently tried to make Diane happy he just didn't really understand her which is why I wouldn't really call him selfish he's more naive. It's why I wasn't a fan of the later seasons presenting it like he was the only problem in their marriage and that marriages only fail because of him when the wives are presented to have flaws as well.
Good gravy, this is an excellent video. I loved the segment explaining how Mr. PB is a foil and also that he isn't.
Wow man that means a lot coming from you. I kind of think of you as the godfather of Bojack videos, so it's really awesome to hear you like it!
Savage Books -- Shady Doorags and Savage Books in the same comment section? What is this, a crossover episode?
@@JamesEmery6 You're a idiot... 😡😠
Don't think I didn't see that GoT frame, SB. Y'all ain't slick.
I wanted to subvert your expectations
i read this comment about two seconds before the frame flashed
I actually never liked Mr. Peanut butter. I loved Princess Carolyn from the start and I can relate to Bojack, Princess Carolyn, and Diane. I loved how they developed Princess Carolyn’s character.
Same!
Stevean2
You can like a character without agreeing with them. You can, at the very least, appreciate the writing, time, and planning it took to create them.
I didn't like PC at first, but the writers ended up giving her more complexity as the series went on. She ended up as my favorite. Not favorite as in the most interesting character, but favorite as in the character who I felt put the most work in to be better.
@Stevean2 I think it's pretty obvious that the writing staff gave PC a facechange.
@Stevean2 did you hate breaking bad or any fucking fictional character that did some minor to major "bad" thing? Sure people could like that. Bojack horseman is about a depressed addict with major issues. Why did you even watch the series if this isn't your cup of tea. Or maybe you watched it with hatred how would I know
I like the way he’s written because while it’s often played as a joke his toxic behaviors are there and it isn’t treated as a good thing
Nah I love mr peanut butter even more. Because when he finally got the courage to see how he is actually hurt people and how he needs to grow he actually does face it and change. Because he knows it's the right thing to do.
You forgot about how his role as a foil still persisted throughout the development of Secretariat and the game show.
Exactly, i kinda think he always remained a loose foil.
What’s interesting when you think about it is if Mr.Peanutbutter was paired with a romantic partner who did like parties and who did like big romantic gestures, we wouldn’t be able to see how bad his faults were. Sometimes we do need a partner that’s different than us to see our faults but at the same time if we choose partners who are more like us then we would live happier lives. ❤️
As well as Todd, Mr Peanutbutter was the character I related to the most in Bojack Horseman. He pretends to be oblivious in certain situations, especially in conversation, when really he's not. He just does this out of a fear of confrontation and an attempt to avoid it. And he actively seeks out distraction from his personal problems, even if his personal life is deteriorating around him. In fact the worse it is, the more he does it. I could see these traits within him before any of it was hinted at or explored, because I saw a reflection of myself. I saw him displaying this behaviour and thought, "that's exactly what I do". I really grew to appreciate this show and it's writing from seeing things like this. I think I got some healthy ideals about self improvement just from seeing this character and realizing that is not who I want to be.
I more or less hated him from the beginning, but I progressively lost that hatred. It became more of a moderate dislike for him.
I too hated him from the beginning.
I also hated him, more for guys over happy go lucky. Now it's a general dislike because he we are being shown his faults as well.
I really hate Mr Peanut Butter. Hated him from the very beginning, and still hate him today.
Mr. Peanutbutter has struck me as someone who’s been coddled by the universe. He had a happy life compared to Bojack, who has been beaten into the ground since day one.
The universe always comes through for him, and he knows it, as the colanders and noodles incident demostrates.
Season 6 just hammers that point in
No. That's the wrong way to see it. However hard Bojack's upbringing was he is still responsible of his actions and had always had a chance to change them.
@@jhxcczs That doesn't mean that PB didn't just stumble backwards into all the lucky breaks.
bojack literally got everything he ever wanted and he repaid that by fucking over every person who helped him get there. Bojack might have got some beatings, but he gave 1,000 more beatings to others.
I think the fault in your argument is that you lean heavily on two articles written by two completely different people with two completely different perspectives to explain how there was a shift. Its entirely possible that those people just metabolized the character differently. See I really dont think that PB changed. The perspective around him changed, sure, but he's always been selfish and only cares about what other people can do for him. That comes off literally in his introduction. He claims to be bojacks friend, sees that hes not ok and wants to talk, swears to be there for him, and then leaves immediately. His character is actually really insidious bc he comes off as the good guy but then always puts his desires before everyone elses and doesnt care what anyone has to say including his wife. He. Has. Always. Done. This. The only reason it feels like theres a shift is because his dysfunction is more focused on in the later seasons and so is slightly more explicit.
Exactly (IMNSHO as well)! Well said. This vlogger also confuses increased exposition of Mr. Peanutbutter with character development; like Bojack, Mr. Peanutbutter doesn't develop as a character until near the end, resisting development as Bojack did.
Yeah exactly. He was like this from the beginning. But in juxtaposition with bojack who’s such a blatant jerk some viewers are distracted by that in the beginning seasons.
Well said. I think it was Diane’s surprise birthday party or Herb’s funeral (I forget which came first) that made my perspective of him changed. The way he passive aggressively called out PC was funny but seemed subtly malicious.
Ever since Frank Hippopopalous, Mr. Peanutbutter has been an apologist for toxic, abusive behavior. He'd rather be liked and applauded like Uncle Hankey than lose wealth, fame and power, and it cost him his marriage.
It's not that simple though, that still wouldn't be an excuse to call Mr. Peanutbutter a bad guy. He can't even be a bad guy if he tried, not in Philbert, not in Hollywoo.
There is no such thing as bad guys or good boys. People are too multi-faceted for that, even if you're basically an Asian Daria or whatever, with the jacket, the glasses and the whole blah thing.
It's okay to not know what you want. It's okay to be confused about who you are. It's okay to cry. It's not stupid.
I think it's very 2 dimensional to say he *just* wanted to be liked by Mr Hankey. Mr Peanutbutter is certainly a man (or, well, dog) who'd rather ignore problems than face them, but there was more to it than wanting to sweep it under the rug for his career. Diane was receiving vicious hate mail that frightened him - he was scared for her. Diane can never ever let a point go, and Mr Peanutbutter recognised how dangerous a characteristic it was for her. It was about protecting her as much as it was protecting him.
His marriages failed because he fails to tell the truth so he used those marriage proposals to get out of telling the truth this comes back to haunt him in season 6 trust me. Mr Peanutbutter just ignores conflict or avoids it because he would prefer to stay positive. Let's just be honest here he was coddled by the bojack universe he never really had to face conflict like bojack. Where mr. Peanutbutter avoids conflict to avoid negativity bojack just accepts it and takes the abuse thrown at him.
@@theeternalslayer: And says insightful commentary on the current situation, as well as the world around him. e.g Hollywood.
@@brodriguez11000 in the end he does what I thought he would focuses on himself and what he needs to do, sucks that he lost pickles but he was probably better off without her. Edited: also its Hollywoob now lol
I disliked Mr Peanutbutter in the beginning, he seemed, ‘too happy’- almost perfect, but fake. But as I watched through the seasons I came to like him, even though his flaws came out. But it was because of these flaws he became more human, flaws which we could relate to as people.
The RUclips algorithm needs to pick up on your videos, they are criminally under watched
Had the opposite experience. The more I saw of Mr Peanutbutter the more endearing I found him to be.
They perfectly put us in his ex wives shoes. We experienced him how they did. Too talkative and upbeat but still charming and endearing and then, we really got to know him.
If you pay attention to him from the start then you can clearly see the flags but he's such a good liar and avoider of issues that it's easy to miss.
Such a well done character.
Our boi is now going through channel development
Hyper-analyzing Bojack Horseman characters is my favorite pastime.
When Bojack does something wrong, we not only feel bad, but we also feel angry at him for yet again spiraling out of control into a mess of unfortunate actions and mistakes, but when Mr. Peanutbutter does something wrong, it's played off as a gag and we're supposed to laugh and say, "Ha, look at him taking a father away from his son for 9 billionth time" ; that's why things like this are hard to catch.
Another amazing video. I LOVE this channel, and I am surprised to say that RUclips’s “Recommended Videos” algorithm did something right once.
When you placed the foil over Mr. PeanutButter in the video he looked completely different. His smile no longer looked joyous, it appeared slightly iniquitous and distressing.
Bravo! This was a great character breakdown. Bojack is one of my favorite shows, and I’m always interested in hearing intelligent, thoughtful insight about it from others. Keep ‘em coming!
Am I literally the only person who saw Mr. Peanutbutter as a vapid, pushy narcissist and not actually a genuine or nice guy? Because I knew he would be a character to hate from episode one.
I didn't see him as genuinely nice but rather obliviously dumb, like Lazzaro Felice level of dumb, he couldn't tell the difference between good and bad.
I didnt like him cause I thought he was fake but I was just an edge lord who happened to be right lmao. He was given the out of being pretty oblivious in season 1, but taking credit for the D is what hinted at him being much more aware than he let on
Ya I've had experience with that type. Knew it right away.
I didn't notice it, but I'm not the best at reading people
He's similar to my ex everyone loves him but he was an emotionally abusive, manipulative cheater and not more. Just a hollow shell without any soul or aura.
I've honestly always hated Mr. Peanutbutter as a character. It has always baffled me how people could see him as a genuinely good guy when within the first two seasons we see him ignore Diane's hatred of grand gestures and have him ruin her birthday party as well as fo a grand gesture marriage proposal. Plus, the way that he basically told Diane to shut up about a famous sexual predator reaaally hits close to home in this day and age where people are constantly shitting on the women coming out and talking about their sexual assaults from famoud men. That was the biggest red flag for me and it's been obvious and glaring since the beginning that PB doesn't listen to nor deeply consider how his actions will affect others.
@Stevean2 I don't remember him being *fine* with it. Also, where in the hell did you see "ALL MEN ARE TOXIC AND DOMINEERING RAPIST" agenda in their comment?
Yes, he didn't outright told her to shut up about sexual assaults, but the fact that he made the entire thing about himself and how Diane is a mega-bitch who mistreats him (ffs even BoJack provided some support to her on the matter) and that he would rather have her take a flight to a war instead of talking about the whole situation to make Diane change her mind, speaks volumes.
@Stevean2 wow... A hit dog will holler..lol there was nothing in the comment about all Men( mr peanutbutter is a dog)... You have issues... Deep issues... Go see someone about that cuz assuming someone talking about a fictional dog character was talking about you or all men🤣🤣 i hate men like you with a burning passion, insecure and loves to project his insecurities onto others...
Came here to see a reactionary react. Was not disappointed
My only problem women coming out about famous sexual predators is that they do it in groups at once when all of it happened years ago.
Fuckin hell if i kick you will you only fight back after i forgot your name aswell? Don't you realise how fake that sounds? It's like ONE woman reports a genuene sexual assoult, then the rest just piledive on the guy to feel included. It's extremely malicious!
Here is what i think actually happened:
-Hollywood and other higher up places can be accessed by women if they give some 'favours'
-some (actresses for example) take it and recieve promotions and roles etc...
-The guy is still kind of an asshat and slips up once, one woman genuenly assoulted reports.
-the rest of the "victims" decide to reframe their story, this results in everything sounding fake, and the original victim can't recieve needed attention.
@@sosig6445 more often than not its because those women were coaxed into not saying anything and staying quiet, and when one woman breaks the chain of silence it gives other victims the courage to step forward as well. i don't believe that fake allegations don't happen because i know people are shitty but i also don't think that everyone who comes out about it after the fact is lying or faking it. plus this comment was about mr peanutbutter, a fictional dog in a fictional world. if you take issue w sexual assault victims coming forward w their experiences this...is a really weird place to leave that comment
Oh man that part about unconditional love being just as damaging as drug addiction almost felt like a personal attack not gonna lie lol
...Wow. This is the first video of yours I've seen, and I'm floored. You actually cited your sources, what?? And your analysis of the show drew upon literary criticism, and not biased opinions?? If I wasn't on my computer I would add a heart-eyes emoji. Thank you for the quality content. I subscribed.
(❤️_❤️) do you mean this one?
@@SakshamSharma-tr9fk nah this one 😍
There are many youtubers like that. Lindsay Ellis and nerdwriter come to mind. Although they can be a bit pretentious.
I love how Mr Peanutbutter is literally a dog man. Like if a dog was to be given human level inelegance, this is exactly how he would act, with all the loyalty and enthusiasm and neediness that comes with it.
...
Which explains why I've never really liked him tbh.
He's not loyal at all lol just needy and pushy
@@namkia205
So...a dig then.
6th season really showed Mr. Peanutbutter's development 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
I am so glad SOMEONE ELSE HATES HIM
His character induces rage in me, but his development slowly leaning him into who he is was just so so good and cleanly done
I feel like you're one of those people who hate happy people in general
It kind of felt like this whole episode was an intro to the content that never came. I kept getting exposition, and never quite to the part where it was explained why Mr. Peanutbutter is the *least likable character in Bojack Horseman* (aside from the brief mention of the young lover and the cheating, where with only one of which I actually see a problem).
Does anyone want to explain to me in more detail what Savage Books was actually trying to say, and what he actually disliked?
Bay Angelo @ Basically Savage is trying to state the delivery of MPB, in season one took a gradual turn agreeing once upon a time MPB was possibly a “hero” with his goody-toe shoes persona and the attempt to lift everyone for the supposed reason that he wanted to be :kind,friendly, and loyal. Like a typical dog us as people think dogs to be, yet in later seasons adding his statement that the article shows how this “pick me-up guy” is a fraud. Not helping people cause he sees them in dire need of it. Nope; cause like any addict it’s all about him :You’re facing a hard time, don’t worry you only need me. Is basically his thing, being clingy and manipulative in anyway if his “routine” is messed with say for example-;him and Diane.
He lashes out.
My opinion is Savage doesn’t like this flawed character cause unlike bojack he never admits his problems. And the troublesome front of being “mr. pick me-up” is disliked since now Savage as a viewer sees the facade
.
Sorry if I don’t make a lick of sense it’s just my take on his statements.
LoNE` No, it makes sense and I get what you’re trying to say. I wish the creator of the video had used more video + explanation to make his point clearer-you were a great help. Thank you!
Bay Angelo @No problem , glad you read my long winded response. And I appreciate your candor , and seeing it in your POV Savage did seem to jump the gun on the evidence part of convincing the audience to see his point. Just seemed like two articles and his point on certain moments was enough for him.
I feel the same way about Diane to be honest.
In season one I thought she was a great voice of reason, stood up for what is right and was the shows moral consciences. She' was a great balance for Bojack because she seem to be a good nature person who genuinely cares about others. Which challenged Bojack both in how he was living his life and how he perceived women.
Fast forward to now.
I now see her as the most "self-righteous" and "holier-then-thou" of the group who cares more about pointing out the flaws in other people. She can be a real hypocrite and there even have been couple times were I don't think she was fully in the right in whatever she got up in arms about. At times she seems to use people and to top it off, as the show went on it started to appear that she's closetly just as miserable as Bojack.
Honestly people's least favorite characters on the show feels more like "I don't personally like these flaws" which tbh goes to show how good the writing is in making complex flawed characters
I watched Bojack with friends, with one of them having already watched the whole series before. When he proposed to Pickles, I just shouted at my screen "NO! NO, NO!" because I was desperately hoping he wouldn't do it. That moment had so much suspense for me because it was actually addressing him as a toxic character, and he just goes right back to how he was. It was so frustrating.
I love this show.
It's insane how by the end of the show, we understand how Diane felt in the relationship
I don't think PB faces his problems head on at all. I think he tries to deal with all his problems by forcing a happy front until they go away
But I still love him because.... how can you hate a dog lmao
And also because characters that seem really nice and well put together actually be manipulative is great
My grandpa’s dog was awful, so no; I do find it very possible to hate a dog. Wouldn’t wish her dead, of course, but I can’t say that I was sorry when he gave her up.
You must never give into dispair. Allow yourself to slip down that road and you surrender to your lowest instincts. In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself. That is the meaning of inner strength.
I honestly wish the show hadn't ended so soon specifically because I felt they didn't do Mr peanutbutter's character justice. With all that he's been through, it would've been really interesting to see Mr pb come to terms with his own depression (and the show had the opportunity too, with the sad dog storyline) Instead what we got was a superficial comic-relief monologue that he gives to bojack in the last episode as a farewell of sorts to the show, which was pathetically done. Mr pb could've been given so much more depth and opportunity for growth, but I guess that's something we'll never get to see
I don't think peanutbutter faces his problems head on more like he sometimes he ignores them
Peanut Butter struggles to be sad, Bojack struggles to be happy.
Neither one has all that good of a life. You need balance.
@Instrumentality1000 this is just dumb mr pb way is the better way which is moving forward while being stuck in your house and constantly thinking about you problems and things that you probably can't even change is just very unhealthy...life is short...so you better enjoy it and do what you wanna do while you can
Mr. Peanutbutter was the best character (besides princess). He was thoughtful and never attempted to make his friends the center of his issues. He was a bit daft and often didn’t see some of the things that people were dealing with but, he never tried to bring people down. He only ever really retaliate after someone else tried to destroy other people. Diane always made her problems about him, even though it was mostly her own inadequacy. He seeks approval but he never made others suffer because of it, he needed support for his ideas and aspirations but rarely got them. So, he just pressed on without needing others opinions. He did what he wanted and was glad to do them.
Love the GOT quick snap when talking about rushing characters that are out of place.
Mr. PB at his worst: "Why does it suddenly matter what I want?" "You can't teach this old dog new tricks, I'm not going to change."
Mr. PB at his best: "I sentence you... To a lifetime of friendship!"
Good video but, my dude, please give that audio mixing a second pass. Your smoothe music and melodic delivery left me very unprepared for those loud clips while wearing headphones.
FlyingCheezBurgers that’s on me, the editor. Audio has ALWAYS been my weak spot. Damn film school doesn’t teach you much. Or maybe it did and I just didn’t listen.
I’ll try and balance stuff out going forward
i love these character analysis videos.
And I definitely liked watching mr. peanutbutters slippery slope once he got a bit more spotlight. But im still waiting for princess carolyn to get a dedicated episode from someone. i really enjoyed her arcs the most towards the end, while also finding everything she did extremely cathartic. One of the best uses of flashbacks in a series
Awesome video (as always). Really enjoy the new editing style. It’s a little more varied and interesting without distracting from what you’re saying- which is the important stuff.
I mean yes, the clues were always there that this guy wasn't "just sweet" (and it did stick a caution in the back of my mind from day one), however the way the rest of the show develops does cause a bit of a focus on the contrast between Mr PB and Bojack during the first season at least, and that's where I think people are coming from when they rate him unduly positively like that, initially. To nick a line from Wanda, "when you look at things through rose tinted glasses, all the red flags just look like flags". His character is a great exploration of not only the flaws you get from relentless positivity, but also the flaws you might require in order to want to sustain that outward attitude in the first place, and I always kinda got that vibe from the show. I think it was a lot more deliberately in place from the get-go than the video suggests. And I say that as someone who shares a lot of personality aspects with the guy! But it's quite very true in a lot of ways! Overall very negative as they may be. Although... yeah there are differences. Obviously.
It's a great show that can make characters you can find simultaneously endearing and grotesque. Almost all the other characters have that going on too. Shows how many complex interacting facets they have going on, I love it. Compelling stuff.
IndieWire (2018): Greatest animated show of all time
Netflix: cancel it!
Ouch.
@Deepz __ The only thing Netflix is doing to do is a prequel and that's final. Also it's still a bogus decision...
I honestly hated him from season 1 because he always seemed so fake and shallow in his positivity
i want to talk to YOU
leaves*
I agree
Yes like, this might be weird but I don't like golden retrievers because of him.
Exactly my thoughts.
Me We he's a Labrador retriever, so...
I was about to skip through the sponsorship, but then I was like “damn, that’s actually really useful”
Y’know, when you mentioned that “Love Triangle” aspect of Season 1, it reminded me of an idea I’ve been told before; In essence, it’s not what tropes you use, it’s how you use them. The fact that a love triangle, a fairly reviled trope, managed to function well in this show really displays how complex writing a good story really is, and kind of reminds me while I love writing so much.
I always thought foils were called that because of the “foil” swords in fencing. Huh. Each day I learn some more.
I really liked how this was done, and believe that it provides a well-thought perspective on a character that is sometimes too easily written off as simple.
It looks like MPB is in fact the same as BoJack, excpet he has this ability to completly ignores things that are wrong. In the last seasons, we can see his true self because he can't ignore his problems anymore.
That's the first time a sponsor actually interests me. Gonna totally check campfire out!
I don't see how one can "hate" Mr. Peanutbutter relative to the other characters in the manner/for the reasons explained here; it's not as if Mr. Peanutbutter's deep pleaser complex breeds worse behavior than most of the other characters.
As said below in response to someone else, I think this confuses the exposition of the character across time with the development of the character (which doesn't really occur until near the end, as with Bojack, given both characters - like most in the cast - resist change - just like real people).
mr peanutbutter is ride or die for life, the most loyal friend one could ask for, a flawed man like all of us none the less
I actually love mrpb even more now. I see him as more relatable. It takes courage to deal with what he goes through and just because he cannot find it in himself yet, I do believe he will at least by next season.
I’ve Did Not Like Mr. Peanut Butter, at first, but now I see him as someone that Decides to see the silver lining in situations and always wants to make everyone around him comfortable or happy
I respect that.
Thank you for finally voicing the struggle I went through with Mr. PB while binging all seasons of BoJack. It was a rollercoaster for sure.
CRAZY HOW ACTUALLY WATCHING A SHOW IN ITS ENTIRITY GIVES YOU A BETTER PERSPECTIVE ON IT DUH
While I always wanted Diane and Bojack to get together so she could teach him the benefits of therapy and asking for help, while Bojack could teach her to let go and be a little selfish because sometimes you have to be selfish to help yourself. But I did like where the writers ended the show because it wasn't a clean end with every relationship tied into a neat bow it was real. People leave without ever telling you why, people move on, friends change and grow. Change and chaos are the natural state of the universe. Very true to life
It’s so bizarre to me that people feel this way. I hated Mr. Peanutbutter in early seasons, but after season 3 I began to like him more. Maybe I am too drawn to toxic characters.
Same...
Same. I don't think it's a matter of being drawn to toxicity though, so much as it is holding authenticity in high regard. At the beginning of the show, PB seemed vapid and fake. As the show got a little deeper, we began to notice some of PB's flaws, and it made him more relatable.
@@devinandrews2346 to some, it appears all happiness is vapid and fake
I just love mr peanutbutter cuz he’s a good boy
Honestly, Mr. Peanutbutter is STILL my favorite character of the show. He isn't the smiley healthy dog we used to see him as, but he is still most fun to watch for me.
Excellent video. It's the show I started watching randomly in Season 1 and had no idea why I couldn't stop watching, because the first episodes weren't that great, but I'm so glad I did. I love this show so much.
I really enjoyed this critique, and particularly the clear but dynamic style in which it was presented - both in writing and production.
Thanks for this video!! I loved it!
I used to really love mr. pb at first. I can only describe how my feelings changed by comparing when you meet someone for the first time and think they're such a fun, cool person, but as time passes by you realize they have many flaws and they are actually not likeable.
The new editing is pretty cool!! Keep up the good work!
Amazing explainations! I would love to Todd character development in the show. Mostly his arc are fun but maybe there's something more to it.
Unfortunately I don't think there is much to Todd. Todd breaks the normal rules of the show, because he's used primarily as a narrative device. The only reason Todd's world hasn't ended in utter despair is that the show needs him on a psychological and mechanical level. Otherwise his shenanigans would have quickly led to the ruin of both him and others. Mr Peanutbutter had some of this at first but as he's become more of an important character you'll notice most of the consequence free shenanigans he did fell away (not all, most). It's a necessary tradeoff for Mr PB to be a more believable character you can feel love, hate, joy, pain, regret, and sorrow with. He has to be real and that means harsher limits and potential consequences to the shenanigans or the stakes don't feel near as impactful in the rest of his life.
Todd's there to help balance out the emotional and story pacing as well as allow them to make basically whatever commentary they want via some quirky interaction to his shenanigans. And honestly, he's become the head of a major company twice already in 5 seasons and they used both times as framing tools to talk about social issues.
The only defining thing that Todd represents in the show, and isn't just used for as a narrative tool, is being asexual. THAT he's had actual character and direct commentary on. Even with his interactions with Bojack and the Rock Opera arc he was just used to deliver the message they wanted to say in such a way as would not sacrifice an actual and important character.
I like Todd and I like all of his scenes in the show. But when it comes to actual characters in the show Todd normally doesn't count and is almost completely defined by his former friendship with Bojack as well as being an asexual. Compare that to any other character in the show and he just falls way short. Unless next season radically rewrites him he's going to remain a fairly shallow goof character that does whatever is needed to facilitate the plot and balance out the heavy emotions of the show.
@@Ralathar44 That's sad. But I hope he gets more plots and development in future since I can't wait to see him make choices at his age. And since Mr. PB was developed so well I think writes can manage to give some spotlight to Todd. Hooray!
I really appreciate the visual storytelling done with this video editing
I had no idea so many people like Mr Peanutbutter. He seemed annoying and unhealthy to me from the start. To the people who like(d) him, I’d love to know why!
Because look at him, that's why😡
A. Bo I liked him until the birthday party episode where he and Diane had that huge fight. That’s when I realized how selfish he is and how he doesn’t listen. Before that he was the comedic relief for me. But now I see he masks his misery in being positive and jovial. I think he is even more depressed than Bojack behind closed doors.
He's a doggo
He was an upbeat character that tried to be nice... But you realize that that isn't enough to make a decent human being by season 5.
He was fun, and he loved Diane... He seemed like a genuinely nice guy who was just kind of too dumb to be better. But the more I saw of him, the more I noticed that he used his dumbness as an excuse to not change and listen to others.
I love mr. Peanutbutter, I think it’s because he reminds me of myself. Like every character in the show will at some point in time. That’s what I adore about ‘BoJack Horseman’. I see my world through these characters. I could never hate any of them, to do so would be to hate myself too. I guess that’s why some people do hate certain characters, because it brings out what they don’t want to see in themselves. I just love the show, and I think all characters are as well rounded and likeable as eachother
I like Mr PeanutButter, but mostly in a "nice puppy" kind of way. He literally ripped off Bojack's show, never had the abusive upbringing Bojack did, and is SO annoyingly optimistic that it makes me want to punch him. Meanwhile, using your own foil analogy, this makes Bojack more relatable and enjoyable. He's the embodiment of failure, self hate and a spiral into hell we can't escape. You want to punch him too, but to snap him out of whatever BS he's spouting, not out of hate. I grew to genuinely love Bojack as a mangled wreck as he feels real, while Peanutbutter just seems to rub his life in your face.
Again, I like Mr Peanutbutter on certain levels. But Bojack, as suicidally self destructive as he is, is far more tolerable to me.
Ngl, it sounds more like you have a problem with happiness.
@@wildfire9280 Nah, it's just a problem with people who kinda are in your face about it. I mean, life is miserable, happiness is fleeting for people like me cos it normally comes at a price later on, but Peanutbutter seems to just be so happy and so annoyingly "Look how great my life is!" that he aggravates me. Optimists in general do, as they're so sickeningly hopeful even when it's clear they're setting themselves up for pain. Bojack is more my dude, he's just as sick of life and everyone in it too, so I relate well. I tend to have a habit of liking fucked up characters. XD
Also, weird thing, but thanks for this comment cos you just reminded me about Bojack and that I can actually catch up on it now. Completely forgot I could. So thanks, in a weird way. :P
I agree with you. As i have already finished the show, i do understand why PB is like that (but i still dislike him). I dont actually see him as truly happy, he just embodies the toxic positivity and that pisses me off lol