Inside a folding solar wall light (with schematic)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- I bought this a while ago, but had made a few other solar light videos at the time, so decided to hold off with this one. Its most interesting feature is that it can be folded to different angles to suit the application, and potentially save shipping space too.
The circuitry has one flaw, but is otherwise acceptable.
General construction is... Typical of the type of product. Maybe a good parts donor for making one that is actually water resilient.
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In the picture of the failed lamp I was just thinking "Oh, that's an interesting post they've given you to mount it, with spiral patterns like a traditional barber's pole..."
How is your comment 4 days old, when the video is only 13 minutes old?
@@Matty0311MMS Patreons get to see the video some time before us plebs.....
@@Matty0311MMS Because people who sign up to Big Clive's Patreon get to view videos early. Try it yourself!
@@Matty0311MMS What's been said about Patreon, and more technically:
Upload to RUclips does not mean instant publication. Between upload and publication all functions are still there for anyone that knows the URL of the video - like if they were told via a message on Patreon.
Once the video is made public, that is the timestamp RUclips shows you.
That's going to be one of my favorite failure photos.
Would never have believed a lithium cell could fail like a party streamer until I saw this video, great way to start my Saturday morning!
What a funny picture! "Pop!"
I wonder if it made that classic party-horn "honk" at the time of failure?!? 🤔😆
I really, really wanted Clive to party streamer that battery ;)
Now I want one to test for myself...
Clive, you should fold it the way the LEDs shine light on the solar cells. Infinite Power (TM)
Literally thought the same thing😂
I have always wondered if that would actually work..😂
LEDs come on, panel sees light, uC turns LEDs off, rinse, repeat! Over and over, Blink Blink Blink Blink Blink... Ack.
@@mrsheesh3743 been sarcastic mate I might look stupid but im not that stupid lmao
@@byson8653 I'm just being an engineer type, knowing how it (sort of) works, not being mean if I can avoid it. Tease yes, mean no.
Three Modes:
Mode 1 = Off
Mode 2 = On
Mode 3 = Exploded
3 is party mode .. honks the horn :D wtf
They were probably copying Lucas inventor of the three position headlight switch. Dim, Flicker, and Off.
Mode 3 is the only interesting one to Clive
Is it me or does the second mode read - "When people walk, the light shines *slightly*"....
It's slightly you.
It looks the same to me to!
Sounds like a japanese horror movie quote.
It’s quite poetic either way.
I really appreciate the color coding on the circuit board tracks. Makes it easy to understand the connections.
The explosions are likely lithium dendrites forming when charging below 0⁰.
*goes off down a Google rabbit hole
Exactly what I was thinking as soon as he mentioned winter.
I really like the fact that you used colors on the schematic, it really makes it clearer to understand and reverse-engineer! Love your videos!
You can never have too many solar lights or videos about them!
Appreciate the new 'Technicolour enhanced' photo of the board. Much easier to track the various operational areas being colour coded. (Not got one of a MC-2100E RevC Treadmill control board that's driving me nuts?).!👍😃
Yeah that was a very clever reverse-engineering tip IMHO!
5:40 "It is not a protected 18650, but that's okkk......"
*sets it off to the side gently*
Anyone else catch the R1 100 "ohmy" resistor. 10:00
Yes. All resistors are ohmy. Battery explosions are Oh-My. What goes around, comes around I guess.
Yes, in the voice of GT.
I'm glad you translated that "induction" part cause I had zero clue of that for sure.
You should make videos teaching people the art of Chinglish, ever so important now with cheap stuff from China being so popular.
Ah, so lithium cells are like sea cucumbers, they fire their guts out their ass to confuse predators when they feel threatened.
Interesting.
You and Techmoan at the same moment. Clive, you're my favorite, buddy. You win.
RIGHT??? clive wins out at 2:50 am!
Techmoan has some damn good content though,another worthy channel.
Ohhhhhhh, don’t get me started on the solar garden PIR lamps. IP65 is a lie, the batteries are right under the solar panel so get very hot. Eventually they stay on all the time. This one looks nice, but again not well thought through as per the waterproofing. On the plus side, it does have a removable battery, which is very kind of them. I’ve tried replacing the batteries in non removable types and they don’t like it. Built in redundancy comes to mind. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into these productions. Thank you Clive. Oh yea, they all come in black, I’ve never seen a pink one. 😄
Am I the only one who now has an overwhelming desire to deliberately get an 18650 to blow up to see it do that? :)
Surely not :)
careful what you wish for... :)
A lot of times the electrolyte in batteries ignite at bursting._
Why stop at one, a dozen would be more entertaining. You could number them and place a wager on which one goes first. Kind of like Clive's exploding resistor game.
The exploding Lithium batteries could also be due to the fact that they have been charging while below freezing temperatures. Lithium batteries really don't like that and they tend to blow up in such cases. Ask every eBike owner with a non-removable battery on their bike during winter times...
Wow, I never thought about that. Interesting point.
Are there battery chemistries that don't mind being charged below freezing?
@@SianaGearz yes, lifepo4 at very low (
You would think a simple resistive heater connected to a thermal sensor was easy to build into battery packs.
However there have been multiple comments detailing experience of overcharged batteries, presumably the battery manager is not fit for purpose in this device.
Or it fails many applications? Before winter even sets in.
Combine overcharged batteries in sub zero conditions and everything turns to ribbons
@@glenmcgillivray4707 - Not well thought through then. I guess you should charge your devices at a specific temperature to be safe.
My father has similar lights as on picture. I opened one and there is no battery protection. I measured battery voltage and it was 4.8V! I will replace the battery and add protection circuit. Second problem is, light are outside in the winter, so battery is charged in freezing temperatures, which is probably not good for lithium cells...
nope lithium cells are not meant to be charged below 0 deg C, never actually looked up what the problem is if you do though. maybe this is it :o
Yeah I was thinking this is what took the cells out as well
A Lamp that celebrates it's own demise.
Morbid - I like it.
I thought he had put his light on a large decorative candy cane.
SHENZEN IO did a great job of mocking up what a spec sheet should look like... they should look like that and the ones you show us. Unfortunately the ones I find look awful and are usually scanned in BW at 50dpi (some from decent IMHO manufacturers give really bad ones out to service engineers)can't make it too easy 🤣. Mystery tour ensues 😁
Do you think it was the naughty use of an input pin placed on the solar positive rail that caused the batteries to "telescope" (due to overcharge)? or ingress of water leading to corrosion? Or freezing lithium ion cells? Or some combination?
I'd guess it was no charge control.
@@bigclivedotcom may be a mix of charge control / venting and water/air ingress into the cell as a result. They don't like air in em ;)
For what it's worth, solar cells put out a higher voltage when it's cold so you're most likely to have issues on a cold but sunny day.
@@tomcardale5596 I didn't know that. makes sense though - all conductors work better when they are cold.
I just bought some of those china AA lithium cells. Stamped capacity 1500mA which i didnt believe as they topped out pretty quick at 150mA (i usually charge overnight at c/10). I measured the capacity at 250mAh which is pretty crap and not what is stamped on the side. If these trickle charge at 25mA then a days sun with no regulation will easily pop these cells! Love the way they unravel like an electrolytic capacitor.
Looks to me like a developer made the initial design with solar panel and extra light sensor, and then someone later 'optimized' away the light sensor without really knowing what they were doing.
It might be usable in a greenhouse or on a covered deck with a clear roof.
I love the battery feature that informs the user that it's time for a new one... :P
Wait. 10:06 "100 ohmy"? Is that something, or is that something else?
Saw that too. Ohmy must be the metric equivalent of ohm.
It's probably what he guy said as he watched the side of his lamp disintegrate! "Oh My"
Hi Clive,
Can you have a look at some of the one day: Litom C-M239 Solar Motion Landscape Lights? We have had some in the garden for a while and they seem to be lasting well. They are will build and have a very large solar array compared to usual ground solar light!!
If the no-name micro has 5V tolerant I/O then there won't be any back-feed from the solar panel.
Yes and it will also have a clamping diode on the ADC which will prevent the issue Clive was referring to.
@@darylsargent7208 The clamping diode IS the issue. If the input voltage on a pin is higher than Vcc + diode drop, it will back feed to Vcc.
I have like 4 of these outside, they've been working for nearly 4 years. the solar cell's plastic cover is totally hazy like bad headlights but still chugging. They only come on at night when people walk near them. Mine don't turn on unless someone walks, else they are dark.
These might be handy as a parts kit for a light for an outhouse or shed; throw in some battery protection maybe, put the panel on the outside and the lights on the inside where they can stay dry.
Looks like they've turned the pyrosensor module 45° to try to get the same sensitivity to movement to/from the sensor as across its field of view. We looked that on PIR alarm sensors and rejected it, although it's some time ago and I can't remember why.
BTW the lens array will be HDPE.
I refuse to join any club that would induct me as a member...
would some part of you like to join dr frankenstein's club, it will electrify the parts that other clubs can not reach !
You mean you resist. You don't have the capacity to deal with people like yourself. It blows your fuse.
Exploding was it's party trick (breaks the ice)
I've had a PP3 turn into a mini torpedo. In fact the same one went bang twice, shooting another cell part way out of the casing! I wonder if in the case of those lights, the thing froze or water got in causing a short?
I'm "shocked" they didn't go FULL _death-dalek_ design and give it a two-prong mains plug.
The clicky wheel ratcheting cog thing is called a Detent.
I think it's a "detent" if it has dimples or indentations for a spring to ride in. In this case, the teeth on the cogs are pulling on the springs so hard that they don't so much "ride" as they do "launch," causing that horrible snapping sound that goes so well with the party favor theme of this contraption.
over voltage definitely needs addressing on these. for waterproofing it maybe easier just to lacquer the board and internal connections and let the water in/out. Even if you could seal it any moisture inside will condense and rot stuff as temperature cycles.
7:16 For a moment I thought you said "passive aggressive instability".
Had a girlfriend like that long ago...
unstable in that passive would flip to active
@@elgorrion52 You've met her!
The way it folds down, could be utilised for camping, campervans etc. as low level light for when if get up in the night, save fumbling for torch or light switch. But not take up much room when not needed, or packed away.
I think the another transistor pad and an open terminal is simply to add another LED string...
I am disappointed @bigclivedotcom he showed he showed photos of his friend's lights, anyone else expected Clive to overcharge the battery to have it "party horn" for us LOL!! He hasn't shown anything going horribly wrong for some time.
3 Mode Solar Haiku. Comment with your own solar light haiku!
Solar light in sun
Battery get mad go boom
Happy China crap
Good morning and have a great day Clive 😁👍
Solar lamp with extendable vuvuzela.
Thats how they are going to battery power planes?
Mode 4 - Unfolding with boom. Scare away spirits - Both Dodggy and Dangeroos!
How does it do the different level of brightness? Does the microcontroller pulse?
It will be PWM
Crap! I have one on top of the garage door outside.
It's coming off today for inspection. I never thought it might not have a TP4056 chip on board.
However, you cell looks like a cell with protection built it. I say that because of the ring indentation close to the top of the cell.
Usually cells with that indentation, are protected cells. Then again, with the Chinese, you'll never know!
I used an LG 2200mAh unprotected cell in mine, and now worried until I get to look at the guts inside.
Nope. An indent on the negative terminal indicates a protection PCB. The indent near the positive terminal is the standard crimp used to secure the cap of the battery to the can.
TP4056 + protection chip + support components is more expensive than just a protection chip + 2 support components. Toss in buyers demanding the lowest possible prices, international shipping fees, warehouse fees, customs fees, etc. and you barely make any profit off the item. Every cent counts so of course corners are going to be cut. As long as the item "works" for a few months, it's deemed acceptable. Longevity is a premium feature that few are willing to pay for and even if you pay for it, the middlemen usually pocket it instead.
My advice to you: open it up, remove the protection chip and hook up the battery via a TP4056 + DW01A breakout board instead.
@@wasddasw6485 any guide on how to exactly do that?
I want to add a TP/TC 4056 but not sure how to connect since it has In+/In- , B+/B- , Out+/Out-
Must have been fun when that happened! Fitting even a basic charge controller would seem common sense to me especially since the components are so very cheap.
Charge controller needs constant input voltage. It isn't really the case here. Current is limited essentially by area of the solar cell and voltage is capped by the protection IC.
"When battery goes party, lights go out"
Interesting teardown. I'm actually in the process of modifying one of these for my channel - there's some interesting things you can do with a few small tweaks. I'll post a guide
Number one reliability improvement: add a little PTC heating element straight onto the lithium cell powered by the solar panel. Prevents explosions by keeping the cell warm while it's charging.
Would you say these are a fire risk? I always just assume solar lights have less risk than wiring mains to a real light.
Those batteries were just celebrating the New Year. 🎉
Great analysis as usual. Had one of the “fixed angle” versions (as in the exploding photo) that also failed after being Spanish sun for a few weeks but no telescoping, only the batt end cap blew off blasting a hole in the side of the housing. Would like to get some more as cheap lights but how would you suggest adding simple protection - even if it was at the expense of light intensity?
If you could replace the Li cell with a protected cell that would do it.
Or add a zener diode and resistor across the cell.
@@ruben_balea I am trying to use a TP/TC 4056 board to prevent battery explosions. Still figuring out how to use it as there is In+/In- , B+/B- , Out+/-
10:00 100 ohmy - I like that - not real ohms, just ohmy ones
I was looking for this comment!
Polari?
Love The Videos!
Clive, I like how you’ve colour coded the PCB picture. Makes it easy to follow the reverse engineering 👍 Have missed the tear downs of solar and power banks recently
Hi clive, a quick question if i may. I have a set of solar powered wall lights, one of which has failed with the battery losing its insides!, can i simply replace the 18650 with a new good quality one, or do i add a charge protection circuit such a a tp4056 inline with the solar Panel to protect it? love your videos, your input is greatly apprdciated. (LED is functional with a new 18650 cell). thanks !
I'd recommend using a protected cell or adding a TP4056 style protection PCB. A lot of these units are overcharging the cells.
9:42 R1= 100 oh my !!
I got recently this cheap one, just like on photo, in winter I noticed it worked strange, so after some measuring I got 5V on li-ion cell, and 2,7v when loaded. I replaced it with another cell and protection board. Works well now. And that old battery still measures above 4.5V.
I just checked, still over 4.2V, currently on 4.6V.
9:42 Actually R1 is a 100 *ohmy* - quite a different beast!
I believe this is the cause of the incidents, and it's actually intended. The purchaser gets a 100-level "Oh my!".
is it possible to modify it to make the turn-on duration longer than 25-30 secs?
Not really, as it's in software.
@@bigclivedotcom well, that's not fun, is it? 😓
A nice light for inside use just point it out the window. Another interesting little thing..
Unfortunately PIRs don't work through glass. Ask me how I know :(
I think I read that lithium cells don't like being charged in sub zero temperatures.
Looks like they just swapped the nicad for Li-Ion battery in that blown up lamp. Had several of those with nicad and the don't last a year outside in a hot climate
think and he provides... I was just thinking about using a solar led outdoor security lamp for the basis for a project... :P
Very interesting! I didn’t know lithium cells could explode like this. I’ve seen NiCd batteries do something similar a long time ago.
Does anyone else want to buy one as a randomly deploying outdoor party horn?
The Chinglish was impressive.
Apparently there are no translation services available in China!
Even Google translate would've done a better job.
No Google services are available in China.
Have you seen their signs? 🤣
@@JasperJanssen Deepl perhaps?
Google Translate is not available in China. Baidu and Wechat have translation features but they don't work nearly as well, even with Chinese language.
So what value of resistor would you put on the track going to the charge circuit, or would a Zener diode work? No, its the current not the voltage, so what size resistor would you recommend?
Current isn't that much of a problem either, because a solar cell this small simply isn't capable of a lot of current.
I'm not here just for a teardown, I'm here for any wisdom you have to share!
Let's bring back the Buckfast haha.
Bought a couple like these without the hinging function and a month later, one of the lithium batteries overcharged and broke the casing. Of course, by then I didn't have the receipt, so couldn't take it back to the hardware store, but surprise, surprise - they were no longer selling them.
The other one has been fine for the past year, esp considering NZ light levels are much brighter and overall daylight hours are longer than Britain.
What is this daylight of which you speak? This time of year it bearly gets above dusk even at midday. Lol.
@@dogwalker666 - lol. Having lived in London for 9 years until 2018, this is the truth. The only upside is if you're in the military and you have to 'stand-to' 30 minutes before dawn, at this time of the year you actually get to sleep in :)
@@richardbaron7106 that’s a good point lol.
9:42 : 100 ohmy
Lets appreciate that one.
6:07 I honestly expected Clive to start singing
Nice to see the OH MY salute to George Takei in the chip specs.. (9:50)
It's possible the manufacturer bought what they thought were protected cells and they weren't. It's not just westerners that unscrupulous Chinese sellers take advantage of. Not saying that all Chinese sellers are unscrupulous, but the ratio is probably the same as anywhere else.
Why would protected cell help at all? There's a protection IC on the PCB. Works the same as the ones in protected cells. Disconnects if voltage too high, too low, current too high.
So the IC guards it against overvoltage, and i think the small solar cell fundamentally is sufficiently current limiting. Other people suggest that the battery popped because it was in freezing cold weather but attempted to charge, which isn't good due to the chemistry.
@@SianaGearz in the ones that exploded.
At the beginning of the video.
@@Alacritous I don't see what you mean. The cell here is an "unprotected" cell, protection is realised on the control PCB of the device.
@@SianaGearz 00:18
How did you not pick up on "100 ohmy" - Takei!
I love haw the battery exploded 😂
Could the iffy connection you mention just be broken Clive without damaging the light?
Bob
I suspect that the LEDs would then never go off, as the weak pulldown would win then
@@mrsheesh3743 thanks, could explain why in small words (learner) please? Don’t worry if you don’t want to I am being cheeky!
If easier to email me then bob@selldis.co
Bob
England
Loading - problems:
Even if the current would not flow over the protecting-diode, then the LiIon-Cell would blow up.
- There is not one NTC for temperature measurement.
If the temperature of the environment droops, then the voltage of the LiIon-Cell droops too.
(Make an easy test, put a fully loaded 4.2 cell in the refrigerator for an hour or more (try 0°C first, then -10°C or -15°C) and measure the voltage of the cell.)
This means: If you load a cold LiIon-calll to 4.2V then you would overload the cell and this spiral-thing would happened or worse.
So: Only load a LiIon-cell if the cell is on room-temperature. 15°C - 30°C would be okay.
=> Especially for the people with electric bicycles.
“...Expressed their contempt by blowing their guts out...” :))) !! Thanks for my laugh of the day. Very therapeutic. No guts lost here.
Come on Clive. You didn't even try to replicate the blown 18650 results! It's been way to long since we've seen something blow up on your channel. Would you consider a series of exploding/catastrophically failing components? It would be highly "educational" or rather entertaining ;-)
(@11:13) "... because there's a diode in there it's the equivalent of connecting a diode straight to positive..." Huh/??? What's that now?
An apparently key point that will lead to failure of the device, but there's no further explanation in the video, I've googled using various search terms, and can find no explanation at all anywhere.
Is it accepted that every input pin of every microcontroller has internal diodes connected to the power rail? Is this some "common knowledge" that I've managed to not notice in years of playing with Arduino & PIC?
I couldn't help but think about Rich Builds, when I saw the 18650 Party Streamer... needed to pause for a good laugh.
If you were to modify the light adding a resistor to the LEDs makes sense, what could you do with the solar line to the MCU, zenor to cap voltage maybe or a resistive voltage divider?
Solar input just a 10-100k series resistor will do, the input diodes will clamp the voltage, and the current will be low enough not to drive the supply voltage up.
The second output is probably there for another version with 2 LED clusters, the second being a high power spot cluster to give even more light when the unit triggers. Might be worth connecting up the extra transistor and a single white LED and see if it was just left in the programming as well.
2:40 There is an alternative - the MyHermes "Postable" Parcel. Hermes have a thickness limit of 3.0cm instead of the 2.5cm that Royal Mail use. Furthermore, Hermes aren't as stringent as Royal Mail, so if it's off by a small amount, it'll probably pass OK.
Hey, I've got one of those in the picture in the beginning. :D Replaced the cell with a protected one before it exploded though. Works great now. Old cell had a rest voltage of about 5.0V.
Love all your vids. I worked for Analog Devices back in the 80s into the 90s .. u bring back soooo many memories !! Out door solar lights...good luck. Ive yet to buy one that lasts 2 summers !!
I'd like you to take a look at some "Emergency" rechargeable LED light bulbs. The set of 3 that we bought from Wal-Mart have an interesting flaw. You can only charge them while they're turned on (because they lack a switch on the bulb, and turning on the socket will just illuminate the bulb as normal). Is there a way to hack this so they can charge while turned off?
There's another flood light with solar panel. Can you do that too?
I bypassed the charge circuit on my lights with tp4056 and got more charge current and more reliable cut off. Seperate ldr to switch on unit, and used stock low voltage cut off.
Into every solar light, a little rain must fall!
I once had some rather attractive LED flowers with the 'electronics' and solar cell built into a nicely decorated resin plant pot. It's outward appearance was quite pleasing to the eye, and it worked well enough. Even my next-door neighbour went out and bought a couple. Then one day, it rained. The lights were lit even in bright daylight, and would not go out at any price. Then the lights went out, and would not relight. The 'pot' was half full of water, so drain out and dry out indoors for a couple of days and all was well again. A bit of an explore soon discovered the abysmal build quality, which, for a garden ornament was absolutely appalling. I tried to seal up all the possible water ingress points, but it was a futile effort. - Those lights didn't even last the season. In the end, I rebuilt one out the two I had, and kept it indoors, in a sunny window, but even then the daylight uV degraded the resin to the point that it crumbled to dust.
I've never bothered with any cheap solar novelties since.
One monument please, you should do a video just on those MOSFET's
These videos are nice Clive! Greetings from switzerland 🇨🇭
Given that unit's size, I think you could water-proof it quite easily by just stuffing the whole thing into a zip-lock bag.
Could probably spray the whole thing with ignition spray like "MotoMaster Ignition Protector".
We use this on electric bike wiring and we have far less issues with corossion after a couple of summers. Best to solder all connections instead of using connectors. Then spray everything with two light coats before positioning and shrinking the heat shrink. Also open the motor controller case and give the circuit board two light coats. Open the battery pack and give cells and bms board two light coats.