Ukraine - a tragedy of conflicting narratives |
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Adrian Verbrugge in conversation with Nicolai Petro on the war in Ukraine. This conversation was recorded at the University of Rhode Island.
Links and show notes:
- Order the book 'The tragedy of Ukraine, What Classical Greek Tragedy Can Teach Us About Conflict Resolution' hier: www.degruyter.com/document/do...
- Also watch Adrian's conversations with Jeffrey Sachs: • #1523: "Western values... , with Glenn Diesen: • #1577: The Double Stan... and with Douglas Macgregor: • The war in Ukraine and...
--
Steun De Nieuwe Wereld. Word patroon op petjeaf.com/denieuwewereld of doneer op NL61 RABO 0357 5828 61 t.n.v. Stichting De Nieuwe Wereld.
Alvast bedankt.
--
De Nieuwe Wereld TV is een platform dat mensen uit verschillende disciplines bij elkaar brengt om na te denken over grote veranderingen die op komst zijn door een combinatie van snelle technologische ontwikkelingen en globalisering. Het is een initiatief van filosoof Ad Verbrugge in samenwerking met anchors Jelle van Baardewijk en Marlies Dekkers.
De Nieuwe Wereld TV wordt gemaakt in samenwerking met de Filosofische School Nederland.
Onze website: denieuwewereld.tv/
DNW heeft ook een Substack. Meld je hier aan: denieuwewereld.substack.com/
--
#ukrainewar #russiaukrainewar #nicolaipetro #geopolitics #history
Dear Adrian, thank you for this very interesting conversation (not an interview). Please consider holding back your urge to interupt the chain of thoughts of your guests for the sake of exposing your own knowledge. It looks like a sign of insecurity, as if you are fishing for compliments from the 'master'. You don't need it, dear Ad. You are an intellectual too, we know it. There's no need for rushing.
Very diplomatic comment 👏
Dutchman here. A great conversation, particularly because an Ukrainian picture was presented of different narratives and how these narratives were geographically distributed by historic processes. I appreciate, as a positive part of the conversation, that the geopolitical contribution to the crisis was not explicitly part of the conversation. It does not mean, however, that this geopolitical component is not there and I think it is essential to include how foreign powers are trying, present tense as we are still in the middle of it, to use Ukrainian "diversity", i.e. the existence of pluriculturalism and narratives, against Russia with the ultimate goal of those foreign powers to overthrow the presidency of mr. Putin (Medvedev, Peskov, Lavrov + the ruling class in Russia) and the balkanization of Russia. This, of course, with the purpose to have more resources controlled by western ruling elite and industrial tycoons, which are interwoven with the western political elite. I think it would be great to learn more about that too, also because it is interwoven with some of the Ukrainian narratives and not, or less, with others.
Good comment , i agree with you about the western imperialistic interests
We have heard from the collective West's leaders that their goal is to break into parts. The Ukrainian population has been completely brainwashed and is being used to fight against Russia.
Look up how central african countries are kicking out the french and americans, and bring in the russians, the west’s options for resources are shrinking by the day, making it lose its competitiveness against China
Very surprising to hear comment like that from a Dutchman, I live in the Netherlands and have been absolutely shocked that 100% of the Dutch I am surrounded by falls for the narrative of the mainstream media without giving any thought about obvious questions, for them Russia is bad, Ukraine is good and there is nothing more to add to that, anyone who even tries to think with their own head is immediately labeled and discarded. Sad situation, really.
@@zharkoo Ignorance, in the Netherlands, is almost general.
American citizen here. I apologize for my government, which went crazy after 9/11. Noam Chomsky's propaganda model for media is evident in America, as discussed by the professor in the video. A super majority of Americans live in what I call the American Media Bubble. That is how they are persuaded year after year to vote against their economic and foreign policy interests. I believe there are similar kinds of manufactured consent issues in Europe, but at a lower level.
U guys better make sure Trump takes office so this chapter can be closed asap
They were crazy before 9/11, it was them together with mossad who planned and executed it.
@@filmdude5058 Why don't we take care of our part of the mess we're in ?
@@hansjohan3150 because europe is a bunch of vassal states of the US, our masters are in washington
@@filmdude5058 No Robert Kennedy!
Почему такой большой историк Николай Петров не сказал, что 120 лет назад не было такой национальности - украинец. Даже на западной Украине, во Львове выходила газета «Русская Правда». Они тогда считали себя русскими. Украинство - это политический проект Австро-Венгерской империи. Там тех, кто называл себя русскими, помещали в контрационные лагеря. Не ленитесь, поинтересуйтесь историей того времени.
Because great historians generally stay away from kremlin political propaganda. Nikolai makes reference to the "Russian Imperialist narrative", the above would be part of that.
Kind of similar thing in former Yugoslavia starting all the way back in Roman empire times. Religion and different occupires of that teritory divided more or less the same people that went through three wars in 20th century. More or less the same language is now also 'divided' and got political names. That did not happen with English which is still English in England, USA, Canada, Australia. Ukranian language looks similar to Russian (to me) but I cannot judge how much is different. Very similar recepies used to divide people and turn them against each other in former Yugoslavia.
Can you recommend an English resource for learning more about this history? Or an easily accessible Russian resource? I can probably use a translator app.
@@WhateverrocksyourboatSearch for The Internment of Russophiles in Austria-Hungary
@@maxinfly thank you!!!
Ik wil De Nieuwe Wereld en Ad Verbrugge bedanken voor dit ontzettend interessante, intellectuele en bewustmakende gesprek. Dit vraagt om meer, en ik hoop dat meer mensen de tijd gaan nemen om zichzelf te verdiepen in de materie van het Oekraïne-Rusland conflict. Dit is een essentiële opgave voor wereldvrede, en De Nieuwe Wereld heeft daar aan bijgedragen. Bedankt en ga zo door met het goede werk.
Couldn't agree more but the role of CIA and Soros absolutely ignored.
Crimea has always been ethnic Russia, by the so called annexation there whas not even one shot lost.
Was Crimea Russian in 1100?
@@xxvxxv5588 yes. Chroetsjov who was an Oekrainer gave it to Oekraine round 1950 in the USSR time. It was in the thougt that the USSR always would exist.
Less than 6 per cent of Crimea’s written history (from the 9th century BC to date) belongs to the Russian chapter. Before 2014, Crimea was under Russian control for a total of only 168 years.157 In fact, Russia is just one of several powers that have aimed to dominate the peninsula. At the dawn of its history, Crimea was a Greek land. It later developed at the intersection of different civilizations and empires. Until the mid-15th century, the peninsula was a space of unique cohabitation between the Khanate of Crimea, Genoese colonies on the coast and the Principality of Theodor (Byzantium) in the southwest. Thereafter, the khanate expanded and became, for over 300 years, a dominant power as a protectorate under the Ottoman Empire. Crimea was an Orient in miniature, with a Turkic-Muslim culture.
Russia invaded Crimea in 1783, as part of a westward expansion seeking control of the Mediterranean and the Middle East. The ambition of Catherine the Great was to establish a new Byzantium in Constantinople, with her grandson Constantine as its emperor. Defeat in the Crimean War of 1853-56 temporarily halted Russia’s continuing territorial aspirations in the region by leading to a ban on military arsenals in the Black Sea, although within 14 years Russia unilaterally abrogated this obligation and continued its military build-up.
Imperial Russia and later the Soviet Union were mistrustful of the indigenous population of Crimean Tatars. The Russian policy was one of forced displacements, colonization and Russification to enshrine dominance. The peninsula’s demographics underwent change following the forced outward migration of Crimean Tatars after the annexation of 1783 and the Crimean War. A further major deportation in 1944 marked a continuation of the long-standing imperial practice of expelling native populations and taking over their lands. According to the last official Ukrainian census of 2001, 60 per cent of the population of Crimea consisted of ethnic Russians, while 24 per cent were Ukrainians and 10 per cent Crimean Tatars, the three most numerous groups.
@@janjorgendevries2927 there have been referenda and over 80% choose to belong to the Russian Federation. The same happined in the Donbass with the same result. They have proposesed to held new referenda under UN controll but that was rejected, for the outcome would gave the same result. The genocide against the donbass, 14.000 victims, through the Kiev regime is even not mentioned.
@@janjorgendevries2927 your opinion is clear to me, why not talk about the coups that the USA arranged since ww2, 70 to be extact, not to mention all the wars they started and the colour revolutions with the help of Soros.
Het resoneerde enorm bij mij dat het volk opstond bij het verloren vertrouwen in de politiek. Ik heb namelijk het donkerbruine vermoeden dat onze westerse/europese politici hetzelfde bezig zijn, en ze hun standpunten met agressie en macht zullen willen verdedigen.
I agree. I feel that the natural EU pluriculturalism is homogenized by a top-down imposed control system through the use of invented and propagandized crisis and fears around the themes Energy, Health, Food, Climate, i.e. from the top straight down into the microlevel of society, which is the powerless individual.
There are so many layers to this story. Nicolai is teaching important, very complex history here... I must however hasten to say that my in-laws (family) who lived in Rostovski Oblast and the Kuban went through "Raskulachivanie"/ "Раскулачивание"---they ended up on collective farms & in the mines. Most survived until the Nazis came, They think of themselves absolutely as Russians ... with wild Cossack blood mixed in ....
There are two different sorts of "COSSACKS". The Ukrainian cAssacks are not the the same as Kuban's or Don's cOssacs...even spelling is different, with an A, not an O, in the Russian language. They have nothing to do with Russian cossacks, who were indeed of a similar historically sociological origin; they did run away from impinging serfdom laws and were exempt from such in exchange for being warier peasant frontier settlers on the borders of the Russian Empire; they were obligated to join the armed forces at call. Kuban cossacks were an essential part of the growing Russian settlement in what now is Eastern Ukraine and the Rostov region of Russia, which was only commenced by Catherine the Second in the 18th century as a ball work against Turks. All those territories belonged to Ottomas until 18th century. By this time cAssacks were out of existence they were incorporated into the Russian empire. "Taras Bulba" is about cAssacks, and "The Done Run Quiet" is about cOssacks. The easy way to remember.
Do they have Polish names, as Chmielnitsky did?
Nicolau totally ignored Taras Bulba, didn't suit his narrative, he was trying to convince us that Bohdan Chmielnitsky was a Kossak with the Polish name.
The difference between Cassacks and Cossacks is the same as between Kiev and Kyiv. They are spelled differently.
Actually most Ukrainian Cossacks were moved closer to Caucasus by Catherine the Great. During last 30years (and especially during last 10 years) Ukrainian history is rewritten, people are brainwashed, that's why we see some special Ukrainian Cossacks. They even translated Taras Bulba to Ukrainian language and replaced Russia with Ukraine. That's how special Ukrainian Cossacks are created.
Pfff wat een vreselijk irritant gesprek, Ad die er als gewoonlijk weer doorheen zit te blaten zodat die Nicolai met zijn verhaal van de hak op de tak springt. Ad is veel te onrustig, kan niet luisteren omdat hij al weer aan het bedenken is wat hij wil zeggen. Ad is gewoon niet geschikt als interviewer. Niemand hoeft te reageren met, "o het is geen interview maar een gesprek". Dat argument heb ik al 100x gehoord en moet ik inmiddels van op de pot.
Ben het volledig met je eens, ik had het niet beter kunnen verwoorden. Door het voortdurend interrumperen van Ad wordt het een chaotisch en soms zelfs onsamenhangend gesprek. Het gebrek aan "fluency" van het Engels van Ad maakt het er niet beter op.
volledig mee eens, net als je mee bent in het verhaal is Ad er weer om het verhaal te onderbreken met zijn "wijsneus"- opmerkingen (om toch maar te tonen dat hij er eigenlijk niets van weet) en kan je "fluiten" naar het vervolg van het verhaal. Dat heb je als de interviewer zijn gesprek niet degelijk heeft voorbereid, geen verhaallijn heeft en zichzelf zo graag hoort praten. Mijn deelneming aan de studenten die examen bij hem moeten afleggen...
agree, it was dificult to listen; if you want to ask question, wait before guest finishes and then ask the question - just not smooth conversation as it should be
Idd Ad blijft blunderen hij moet zich telkens laten gelden; katholieken en protestanten in Nederland; over de vezuiling in Nederland. Snapt hij nu nog niet dat het compleet de verhaallijn van de gast torpedeert en door die zijstapjes de luisteraar ook belemmert het verhaal van de gast te blijven volgen? Hij moet vragen stellen die een verduidelijking en toevoeging zijn op de kennis die de gast probeert over te brengen op zijn publiek. Ad zijn rol moet ondergeschikt blijven. Hij volhardt in het niet begrijpen. Ook het interview met Colonel Mcgreggor verknalde hij op precies dezelfde wijze. Een geweldige gast trouwens. En dat maakt het nog erger. Doe er wat aan Ad!!!!
Cannot agree more. The potential of this conversion was dramatically diminished by constant interruption and talking over Mr Petro. The questions were good, I wish, however, that we were allowed to listen to the answer in full.
Hello from Ukraine! In reality situation is even more complicated, Ukraine is poorly studied and poorly undestood.
Unfortunately, the fact that US always use the diversity in countries all over the world to start wars or/and create coups. Divide and conquer. However, we all know such diversities can also be united by respect, education (understanding) and good will.
@@ellengran6814isn't that like "wahabisme"? Is as old as Warfare. As using prisoners in war. But totally true the West is Master in it.
What is your opinion on forbidding the Ruusian language in public areas ? Speaking by a majority in (east) Ukraine.
Ty and hoping for peace as soon as possible.
@@Bigliever
Most of Eastern Ukraine is now under Russian occupation and Ukrainian laws are irrelevant here. Instead of this there are laws and cultural norms against Ukrainian language, Ukrainian media and Ukrainian culture.
Most of Eastern Ukraine is free from western occupation . Ukrainian language is one of state languages in Crimea, for example. It's not true that Ukrainian language and culture are forbidden by Russia. You can find them even in Moscow. Don't listen to propaganda.
People are able to choose which language they use and study in the school..
Too much unnecessary interruption by one of the participants. Can't watch. sad😢
Dit is een fantastische uitzending het geeft een duidelijk inzicht van een geschiedenis waar we veel te weinig vanaf weten , ik hoop dat ook social media hier naar kijkt
Ik hoop met name dat onze "main stream media", de staats gesubsidieerde, er naar luisteren!
Nice research, gives lots of information, but has bias opinion of someone who suffered greatly from Russian. You didn't mention Petliura, you haven't explained how Chmielnitsky, apparently Kossak, got his Polish surname. Western Ukraine never existed, it was part of Republic of Poland till 1939, after the WWII incorporated to Soviet Union/USRR. Krym or Crymea, NATO was planning it's military base in Sevastopol. How have you suffered greatly, because of Russians, I as Pole could say it the same, but we suffered greatly because of Ukrainian nationalists, 75% of my family were murdered by you greatest patriot Bandera.
I agree it was mostly a fair view of history but he does try to paper over the attrocities of the banderites both during WWII and after the Maidan revolution.
Je kunt ook het buitengewoon informatieve en gedetaillerde boek van Kees van der Pijl lezen, met 1000 voetnoten. Uitgegeven door Tom Zwitser van Uitgeverij de Blauwe Tijger. Dat boek heet overigens ook De tragedie van Oekraine en is in meerder talen vertaald.Kees wordt hier ondergewaardeerd, geeft lezingen in het buitenland.
Hij gaat tegen de gevestigde ideologie in en dan wordt je genegeerd. Het gaat niet om waarheid, maar om ideologie, helaas. Daarom laten veel mensen zich niet overtuigen.
@@TinusTegenlicht precies, in deze verwarrende uitzending worden belangrijke feitelijkheden simpelweg niet benoemd. DNW is wat Jensen msm alternatieve media normt
@@dineke346 Wat een onzin, je kunt toch niet alles benoemen en bespreken in een uur tijd. En in andere gesprekken kwamen bepaalde zaken wel naar voren, zoals bij McGregor en Kees van der Pijl op DNW. Wat wordt dan niet benoemd volgens u?
@@TinusTegenlicht dat de CIA Maidan coup zorgvuldig is voorbereid en uitgevoerd met behulp van bewapende fascisten die op de aanwezige politie en op de demonstrerende burgers schoten. De mensen als McCain , Verhofstadt, Nuland en Biden due de demonstraten maandenlang een glorieuze toekomst in Europa voorspiegelden, plus miljarden steun toezegden. De bevolking kende niet anders dan corruptie en werd een democratisch, vredig welvarende toekomst voorgespiegeld. Er was niet sprake van een neurale tendens vanuit de bevolking om zivh tegen Rusland te vertzetten.
@@TinusTegenlicht Van der Pijl noemt uitsluitend feitelijkheden en noemt man en paard en niet de aanname dat er vanuit de bevolking een tendens was om zich meer naar Europa te wenden. Hij beschrijft van uur tot uur de toedracht van de Maidan coup. Ik noem slechs Mc Cain, Nuland, Verhofstadt, van Baalen, Biden en de gewapende Bandera milities. Dit is maar 1 voorbeeld.
This host is too much, time and time again the guest wanted to move to his book .Several times this host drags his conversation to himself. Yap yap yap. Why bother having guests when you take over. So bloody annoying. Rude and aggressive.
Tragedie van Oekraïne
Kees van der Pijl toch....??
The interviewer talks to much and should listen more, no additional value in his remarks.
Good observation. Thje interviewer has been told so many times :)
Yes this is his modus operandi.
Look in the description below the video. It states: "Adrian Verbrugge in conversation with Nicolai Petro on the war in Ukraine". So it's deliberate to be a conversation and not an interview. I kinda like it that way. We have to be careful not to look at it with a certain frame we all grew up in.
He always does that , seen for a few years.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. The Interviewer interrupts a lot thus making it impossible for the interviewee to complete several meaningful thoughts and topics.
Throughout the history of Ukraine was always part of the Russia empire.
From the 14th to the 16th century, Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
A part of Ukraine
Prof. Nicolai Petro is zeker de moeite waard om naar te luisteren. Echt top van DNW dat jullie dit soort gasten steeds uitnodigen. Wij wachten op het interview met V. Poetin.
Wat zou je hem vragen als je de kans kreeg?
Tucker Carlson , last february , interviewde V. Poetin . Aanrader
Wat is de waarheid
@@reinduhr Geen idee. En als ik eentje had zou het ieder geval niet over politiek gaan.
@@edmundfrancispietrodleon9825 informeer , inlezen en oordelen , geduld uitoefenen en ZELF bepalen , niet laten misleiden door onze media. Veel geluk.
The only part of Ukraine that was not part of Russia was the western part of Ukraine.
Kinda in the middle, a Cossack Hetmanate of one Bohdan Khmelnytsky, pledged allegiance to and joined the Russian Tsardom in 1654.
Kiev itself fell to the Golden Horde in 1240, was then taken by the Lithuanians in the Battle of Blue Waters in 1363, to finally be bought back, together with territories east of the Dnieper River, from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Tsarist Russia in 1686 [Purchase Deed technically still valid today].
From the 14th to the 16th century Ukraine was part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
@@MrRight1000 Stop misinforming lazy people about Ukraine, and read the history very well before committing, portions of Ukraine were ruled by Lithuania, Poland and Russia. In addition, Cossacks controlled a largely self-governing territory known as the Hetmanate. Most of Ukraine fell to Russian rule in the 18th century.
@@user-id8cu4pc5z "Stop misinforming lazy people about Ukraine, ..."
-- Haha... Rather authoritarian, soviet style statement, wouldn't you say? 😅
@@MrRight1000 I'm referring to the habit of lazy individuals being constantly misinformed about what is going on. The only authoritarian nation attempting to rewrite history is the United States of America. In twenty years, the US will undoubtedly assert-with complete certainty-that the Soviet Union dropped a nuclear weapon on Japan during WW2 and i am sure that majority of western lazy uninform population will believe.
The fact is Ukraine was a artificial country created by Lenin and the Bolsheviks historically it never existed the only part of Ukraine that was never a part of Russia was the west Ukraine because for centuries it was a part of the Hapsburg empire until after the First World War. Ukrainian language before the USSR was only spoken in the western Ukraine.
Bullshit, check how long Lwów. was in H "empire,' , look on historic map
@@krzysztoftomczak4433lvov is western ukraine, so he’s correct.. look up your geography before commenting
Pretty difficult listening to an interview when the journalist isn’t able to let the guest finish his sentences / thoughts 🙄 especially with a guest like Nikolai Petro who is a gem of knowledge on this issue.
its not a journalist, you follow a conversation between two people and there is a camera
@@dnaindex 🤷♀️ didn‘t you get it? Call it „the host of the channel“ then 🙄 It’s just rude to behave like this host did I’ve never experienced on other channels I watch. Btw the channel info says the channel would be a „initiative between a journalist and“ two other people. 😉
Ukraine was OK before the western organized coup in 2014 regardless of all historical differences. It was enough to have a moderate government able to cooperate with all countries if it was profitable for Ukraine. But the West decided to take control over Ukraine.
Schitterende uitzending Ad. Ik zie in de commentaren nogal eens voorbij komen dat Ad NIcolai te weinig laat uitpraten, er teveel zelf doorheen praat . . . . ik vind dat juist prettig en getuigen van gelijkwaardige inbreng in een gesprek. Er is een heel groot verschil tussen elkaar onderbreken en de ander het woord ontnemen.
Would be so great if you didn't keep interrupting the guest
Absolutely correct.
Thats Adrian, he likes to hear himself talk 🤣🤣
Een zeer leerzama discussie, zelfs voor iemand als ikzelf met al een grote kennis van zaken. Maar voor mensen die onbekend zijn met de historie van dit grensgebied Ukraïne moeilijk te ontwarren. Toch zal dit moeten mensen om tot een duurzamen vrede te komen.
Heel hartelijk dank DNW en speciaal Ad voor dit leerzame, verhelderende gesprek. Wat fijn dat jullie er zijn.
Important interview! ❤ I wish the interviewer would keep quiet. His interruptions are very distracting
And what about Bandera???
Precies, nationale held in west Oekraine en wij steunen het regelrechte fascistische regime in Kiev. Hoop dat mijn reactie blijft staan.
What about Victoria Newland, the CIA and the Bandera militant fighters that backed them.
ruclips.net/video/uVVRccerdW0/видео.html&rco=1 nothing this bullshiters claim that UA nazi are "heros" and want with this "heros" enter to EU
@@dineke346Voorlopig staat uw reactie er nog.
Je hebt gelijk.
Als er in Vlaanderen op een betoging een Vlaamse Leeuw te zien is wordt er al van extreem rechts gesproken.
Of "bloed en bodem" rood en zwart.
Net zoals de vlag gebruikt in Oekraïne...
@@Bigliever heb ook al 2 x een uitgebreidere reactie getypt, mbt Bandera maar die stond er nog geen minuut.
Excellent! Shared it. I find Professor Petro the consistently sane, objective, and fair voice on this subject.
Ну, Вообще-то, была Донецко-Криворожская республика.
Heel lastig te volgen.
Vrienden graag jullie hulp! Kunnen jullie een logische gespreksindeling / inhoudsopgave maken en hieronder posten - dan kunnen we die gebruiken? Gewoon minuut aangeven en titel hoofdstuk suggereren ❤
Misschien even aan Ad vragen? Wie zijn "logische gespreksindeling" kan volgen moet nog geboren worden... Hij hoort zichzelf zo graag en kan niet luisteren naar een ander. Sorry.
Verbrugge’s zelf gecreëerde gespreks chaos opruimen?
How about allowing the guy to speak without repeatedly interrupting him.That way you learn more.
Heel interessant. Dankjewel Ad
Joseph Roth is geboren in Polen, maar dat gebied is nu Oekraïne. Er zijn mensen die zeggen dat dit gebied weer terug moet naar Polen en ik heb begrepen dat Polen dit ook graag terug wil.
Hongarije claimt ook een deel, oekraine wordt opgedeeld
@@filmdude5058Is it right to see Ukraine as an artificial state made out of various bits from former empires? In short, a typical buffer-state that had to remain neutral at any cost. Alas, the nationalist clique in Kiev already started cheating about that in the 1990s. Extremely pushy, corrupted, and dangerously revengeful guys... Definitely unreliable partners.
@@fabiengerard8142 yes
Nicolai Petro does not know the history of Russia, everything this guy is talking about is false, even my 7 years old boy know the Russia history very well.
He thinks, he knows Ukrainian history.
watch also nima on dialogue works, he is the most amazing journalist with the most interesting guests on this. Also on China, Gaza etc And don't forget to cancel your TV subscription guys, just a waste of time.
agree, much better host, Nima
Clashing narratives is de titel van mijn masterscriptie filosofie
Dit was het meest interessante gesprek van dit jaar tot nu toe. Proficiat.
"You're beginning to talk like Poetin. That's dangerous!" . To show how smart those guys are, NOT.
Hartelijk dank!
As a Swedish child my perception of the people east of Germany and West of Russia were that they are all kin and the only thing that made them different from Russians was that Russia was the biggest entity therefor maybe a bit of a bully. This view included the Balkans.
Being an opponent of the USA is dangerous, being it's friend is deadly.
What are you trying to say with 'this view included the Balkans'. What Russia has to do with Balkans? Balkan is occupied by nato today. There are no Russians there. Nato bombed former Yugoslavia, not Russia. It was part of nato expansion. Some balkan countries joined nato against people's will, Montenegro, Macedonia.
@@drnda2007 As a child I didnt know this I just perceived the people as being the same.
Russians are less spoiled by the western woke ideology. In Russia men are men, women are women. They are not bully, they are normal. The West is bully when they are trying to spread their rules all over the world including Russia. They managed to do it with Ukraine and now you see the result. Because the West is not only arrogant, they are ignorant without understanding of history and culture. Ukraine was a peaceful and happy country before the western organized coup in 2014.
So from his Odessa observation post, did the professor see the Kiev coup government as fascist? What did Russian speakers there think about it? Note that the Odessa Massacre started as a 'Anti-Maidan' protest against the coup (information tables in front of the Ministry of Labour building).
great conversation, very informative, and provides a "way out option"! This conversation aligns with Donald Trump's plan to end the war and get around the table.
Zeer verhelderend gesprek 👌👍👍
Historic view based on Idealistic philosophical thinking...
With some good point's,.
No one will fight for capitalism
Ukraine is a weak state, a corrupt state, ruled by oligarchs.
It's also a central area of security concern for Russia (and its oligarchs).
Identity weaponized by foreign interests.
The US saw the opportunity to bleed Russia through Ukraine?
In the 2000's Russia and Ukraine was the most integrated countries in Europe.
Has the ordinary Ukrainian benefited by the break up of the USSR, the civil war or the invasion?
Look at the Ukrainian GDP from 1991 to 2024!
The selling out of Ukraine by the current political elite (to the US) will cost the Ukraine dearly (economic and human).
If you can predict anything from history.
I think Ukraine will be thrown under the buss - once the current inter-imperialust war end/is lost.
What does that tell us about the Western elites?
Try not to interrupt so much, makes it difficult to listen to. The interviewer seems to have forgotten that we are supposed to be given some perhaps new, interesting knowledge. You make it hard…
He will never learn. So many people told him dont interrupt so much. Its good to summarize the chain of thought now and then during the conversation.. But Ad interviews are more of a demonstration of his own chain of thought and give his version before the guest could make his point. Thats why this conversation is very hard to follow.
Interesting conversation.
Great conversation. Keep on, keeping on.
Very useful for perspective, thank you. Appreciate this format.
I have one objection it was more of the Hungarian and Romanian empire, polish empire came later.
This is t5he problematic nationalism. The biggest part of Ukraine was to Poland.
what Romanian 'empire'? Romania united some 100 yrs ago.
@antonius3745 yes yes yes,I know. I wrote the comment at the beginning of the video where he started around the battle of Constantinople. And went through all the wars .
Is it not more likely that the Cossacks didn't 'migrate out of Russia to be their own thing' - but were the distant relatives of the former rulers of the space? The Kipchak Khanate ('Golden Horde')?
Ad onderbreekt teveel..🙈
During the liberal democratic state period (1945-1995), the difference from today was that there were thousands of news companies and many networks - including new cable players - and to maintain a fairly free flow of information, only one had to buck a trend - plus they all had a huge financial impetus to be that 'loose cannon' to the establishment every now and then. The movie 'Network' posited that the change was from a news editor with final edit, to the finance department - of course this is in a climate of shrinking corporate incomes and a flurry of huge corporate takeovers -> ie. monopolization. (Lenin perhaps :)
"Een verdiepend gesprek" kan in het Engels worden vertaald als "an in-depth conversation." Hier zijn enkele alternatieve vertalingen voor "een verdiepend gesprek":
"A profound conversation"
"A deep conversation"
"A meaningful conversation"
"An insightful conversation"
Afhankelijk van de context kunnen deze vertalingen passend zijn.
Bedankt
so the term, 'the Rus' might be understood as the lands accessible by the Volga River? (everything west of the Urals :)
Like the highways that transport mechanized armies today, in that day, that technology was rivers and river boats - the access derived by that which is drained by the river - and the navigable tributaries of the river - are 'the borders'
(I'm an amateur historian and I am a year old in this era of history, here, - so I may be upsetting and wild - sorry - no slight against any people's is intended :)
het laatste interview met Prigozhin ook interessant
Thank you very much for the very clear explanation of ukranianinism in historical perspective.
Thanks. Good interview. Enjoyed it.
Many thanks for this conversation!
Ad, hou toch eens een keer je mond!!! Laat iemand eens uitspreken, ik wil horen wat je gast te zeggen heeft. Iedereen weet dat jij veel weet, maar hou eens op dat in de etalage te zetten!!!
7:30 he's talking about the Freemasonry
The day the coup happened, many top western leaders were in Sochi with Putin glad-handing at the ceremonies of the XXII Olympic Winter Games.
These two gentlemen are far away from historical fact, they create their own history about Ukraine which is totally unacceptable.
So much wiser than mcGregor
in your dreams
McGregor is fascist
This man knows quite a lot. Maybe the questions were a bit too general for the time available. An unprepared college for 45min about half a millenium of difficult history is not going to be that succesfull for most people. Nevertheless, this men kept his story organized, he really knows his stuff.
Bedankt! Heel interessant !
Weer een top gespek
Keep the Americans and the British out of their oligarchy? :)
(and the Russians - who were in no position to do that at that time - they were up to their eyebrows with Americans and the British)
Dit doe je goed Ad! Maar heeft u ook de testikels om zo’n gesprek te organiseren met Ilan Pappe of Norman Finkelstein over Israël en het Zionisme ?
He's worried about being called antisemitic 😆 🤣
ah, geen Benny Morris? 🌝
@@ericspoor8175 Die heeft in het debat dat gemodereerd werd Lex Friedman laten zien dat hij staats historicus is.
Data please
Less bluster and less bloviation
Chapeau Ad
Constantinople was the centre of many of the great number of silk road networks that flowed goods across Asia - that is the character of the cultures east-west across the Black Sea and the Caspian to the ancient roads east to China. Agriculture, fishing and trade are foundations of many the ancient great civilizations - these are no different - connected by the silk roads with the rest of the world, and just there to the south is the centre of it THE great capital of the western (and the eastern) world for 1,500 years - these civilizations east are also cosmopolitan, enlightened civilizations no doubt.
(I tracked it on a map, the 'portage' from the Baltic up to the height of land - to the navigable headwaters of the Volga - is 1.2 miles! They are us?)
👍👍
What about the untold stories of the silent slaves of repressive authocratic klepocratic regimes? They have not time not the right to write books.
Like the US??
Burisma Holdings
I really wanted to take this guy seriously but so many of his arguments are just taken from German/Anglo historians who have always been biased against the Russian people. He couldn't even bring himself to call Bogdan Khmelnitsky an ethnic Russian and instead called them serfs. Yes they rebelled against the Russian tsar but they were still ethnic Russian. This is what is important. Ukrainian is NOT an ethnicity.
'radical extremists from the west and amoungst some intellectuals in Kiev as the centre of political and intellectual life in the nation' - so in fact this half of the political divide choose to throw out the 1991 constitution; now all the legal arguments you hear on the neocon / fight-Russia-to-the-last-Ukrainian side, falls very flat. Why I call it the Kiev regime today.
Please Lean not to interact.....
Ad is een goede filosoof, maar de manier waarop hij mensen voortdurend interrumpeert is ronduit onbeschoft, dat hij dat zelf niet doorheeft !?
Dear Adrian, please hold off your urge to interrupt your guest every minute. Your position should not be to argue with them. This is NOT a debate. As the host you should just ask probing questions let them make their points. I got very annoyed watching this video. But I commend you for your effort to bring alternative narratives. Cheers,
?
Interesting show, but terrible host. Sir, you interrupt continuously. The first rule for a good host is to get out of the way, or at least hold your tongue until your guest pauses or finishes speaking. Your practice of talking over Mr. Petro is really irritating, distracting and really adds nothing. Other than that, I found Petro's history and analysis very valuable, but I would be happier if he did not gloss over the more unpleasant historical incidents - the brutality of massacres, the savagery of racist beliefs, policies and actions, the geopolitical chessboard, the damage inflicted in Ukrainian territories during the early 1950's, and the involvement of great powers and their intelligence services and State Departments in overturning governments and using peoples as "expendable" pawns to be sacrificed at will without a thought given to the misery and societal fractures they instigate. The failure to deal openly with these harms and brutalities does give the discourse a "cosmetic" quality, in an effort to preserve a pretext of balance and even-handedness. I find that aspect of Petro's discourse unpersuasive.
So what would actually happen if Ukraine stop fighting the Russian invasion..
US politics would loose their face, and US investment fonds would loose lots, lots of money
@hansjohan3150 let me be more specific. What would happen to Ukraine and Ukrainians if they stop fighting against Russia's invasion.
@@hansjohan3150please don't come with US this US that. I'm talking pure from a Ukrainian perspective. If you cannot comment on that seriously then please don't comment.
@@Cna_asia
"... What would happen to Ukrainians....."
Best indication would be to look what happened to Ukrainians on Crimea and other parts that are now under Russian control. It seems that they continue normal life. Russians doesn't hate Ukrainians. On the contrary. They are so similar to each other that it is difficult for outsiders to see who is Russian and who is Ukrainian. Languages are also very similar.
The only thing Russia asked in the beginning was equal rights for Russian speaking Ukrainians and no NATO in the Ukraine.
@@Cna_asia What do You think would happen? What has happened in the 9 states of the Russian Federation in the last 20 Years? And what happened overthere from 1990 until 2003?
you don't have to say "I am not a marxist at all" it is not about you. A good journalist would never ever say a thing like that. It is western arrogance.
I understand everyone wants to blame the US (and Europe) for being opportunistic. But let's consider the realistic statistics. The implications for Europe of losing territory to Russia will result in even more people from that territory fleeing to western Europe. Currently, there are at least 30 million people of Russian descent living in Europe. Europe's territory is what less than half of Russia's.
This, versus no more than a 2 million people of "European" origin living in Russia, of which the vast majority are indeed Ukrainian. Needless to say that there are more Russians in Europe than Europeans in Russia.
This gives a realistic overview on which country and Regime, is the most problematic. The best solution would be for Russia to end hostilities in Ukraine and reestablish peaceful relations with its European neighbours.
Why people want to live in western Europe? Because money for nothing! The collapse is soon coming.
@@hansjohan3150 more like, because better paying jobs, better wealth distribution, and 4 year terms of governance. Basically "Democracy" although the term is archaic. This system makes necessary changes easier to accomplish. Very different than Totalitarianism.
Better infrastructure and facilities also. Definitely compared to Russia.
Freedom to demonstrate, relatively great Freedom of Speech, although this is deteriorating, RUclips being a good example.
What do you mean by 'Europe loosing territory to Russia'? What teritory you are reffering to? Ukraine? Ukraine is Europe same as Russia is, not talking about European Union. I see problem in Europe is nato, not Russia. Nato is expanding, not Russia.
"..... which regime is more problematic......."
What's your take on the official Military Doctrine of the United States, "Full Spectrum Dominance"? Pax Americana? RAND Corporation paper from 2019, "Extending Russia - Competing from the advantageus ground? Zbigniew Brezinsky's "The Great Chess board"?
Garbage historical perspective.