yes, everyone should read what they want, however, the crux of your video seems to be that students are no longer prepared for higher education because they cannot read critically. reading for fun, reading ''dark romance'' is reading, sure. but it's not the same as reading critically, which requires more than reading words on the page. i say this as someone who went to law school myself - prospectvie law students have to be reading widely in order to be able to think critically. if they are not reading non fiction, literary fiction etc, they should atleast be reading around the law! and this kind of deep understanding does not come from reading easy reading books, it just doesn't. i learnt to think critically through reading classics and modern classics in school, by engaging in wider reading during A-Level English and History (which was predominantly moden classics and historical books). this is critical engagement. and telling young girls that reading books where abusive men are being protrayed as 'morally grey' is preparing them to put up with bad behaviour from men under the guise of 'he hates everyone but me,' 'he's scary but not to me' etc. if the point of your video is, readers need to engage critically with what they're reading, i absolutely agree, but i don't believe, in good conscience, that that is what's happening! and reading those kinds of books without reading the occasional classic, literary fiction, memoir, etc, is the same as reading through the tweets on your timeline or reading through a subreddit on reddit, and saying, 'well, at least they're reading!' it just doesn't engage the same critical thinking skills at all, in my opinion.
and i don't mean to imply that it's meritless to read books that are considered easier to digest. everyone reads some books that have, perhaps some 'lower literary merit.' but if you cannot pick up a single book that's not from an independent author on kindle unlimited, or you cannot read even a chapter of a non-fiction book, you are simply not the same kind of reader who can, and you're *probably* not going to succeed in higher education. the most intelligent, engaging people i know read a good amount of both, and i personally did not meet a single person in law school who did not read traditionally published fiction.
Thank you for this comment. I'd say it is on point. If those readers read romantasy for enjoyment then amazing - I enjoy the type from time to time ❤ I am already able to apply a certain level of critical thinking to know which actions/representation etc. may not be healthy in real life as I read harlequin books, as well as classics, non fiction, fantasy etc. So if you see tiktoks with comments that have reviews that romanticize dengerous behaviours, it is different from giggles at a fun book. Yes, both type of readers are readers. Readers who only ever consume one type of media are less likely to be well rounded critical thinkers. As usual, to me this is all about balance. Or if you practice your critical thinking outside of books of course it’s also fine, you can achieve this balance that way. People try destroying and banning books for a reason - not a good one, but because we have understanding books can influence us a lot. So yes, lets read what we want but lets not promote only one type of literature thoughtlessly. And I will argue you can be a writer when you write but not always a good writer just because you do. Issue is that romantasy is churned out just as cash grabs and quality indeed can be low, to push them out quicker, just the same thing consistently. How else to expand our vocabulary and thinkinf if the books follow the same pattern structure, character rep wise , plot wise etc?
Thank you for widening this discussion because I do see a lot of value in what you’re saying. This goes along with my secondary argument that we have to put aside our internal biases of what genres can even illicit a critical response or the ability to engage in the text. If a dark romance allows readers to explore a sexual fantasy in a safe environment, or perhaps gives people an opening to discuss coercive control from the main character of the book, does that not count as engagement in the text?
Yes, I also didn’t have enough time to go down the thread that debriefing what we’ve read from a dark fantasy can and should be promoted. Because you’re right, I am a 37 year old woman with life and dating experience and can separate the text from real life. But if some readers are an age where they have not fully developed their reasoning skills are getting their hands on books with tough subject matter, they may not have someone to discuss what they read except through booktok.
As someone who taught K-2 for 9 years in public schools. I can definitely tell you that we need smaller class sizes so we can get these kids reading before they go to the upper grades. I can't tell you how many times I have wished for more time with a group of students because they don't know all the sounds of the letters. But it's impossible to carve out that time when you have 20+ kindergarteners in a room with you. Those foundational reading years are so crucial to setting kids up to be amazing readers in the future if teachers have the ability to support those who struggle. Its so sad to see kids in 4th grade struggle to sound out words because they didn’t automate their letter sounds in 1st grade. And the struggle and frustration only makes them dread the reading all the more.
Yes, I have heard the same from other primary school educators. The shift away from phonics and the focus on sight reading has not helped students at all and you are right, they are struggling early and it compounds their dread!
Yeah. to me the tiktok situation is more of a reflex of the actual problem, like a public showcase, a case display. its the result of an education system that actively discourages people from reading. I actually have a bit of an outsiders POV when it comes to this subject. Im from brazil and my education was very different, i studied in an amazing school that taught me literacy from a very young age. I was also quite a gifted kid since I've learned how to read at the age of four. I'm an outlier in this but i'd like to compare to any of my classmates, most of them had higher reading comprehension, writing skills and were in some shape or form active readers. the thing is, although my education was excellent, what they were doing isn't a miracle, nor anything wild. We had our standart curriculum, we studied to exams, and we had normal classrooms with 30 kids running around. What was different was the approach to all of this. I do want to add though, the brazilian standart curriculum is broader and more complete than the USA's imho, and that counts a lot, specially since all of public and private schools (yes even the religious schools) are obligated by law to follow it.(so none of that bullshit about not teaching evolution, book banning etc) More than that, we had literature classes and writing classes ever since year 5, and before that the subject was introduced in the language classes(portuguese in this case). You as a student was obligated to read a few books a year, the catch? you could choose! I still have a few of my adored fantasy books that i did assignments on. I remember me as a little kid recomending books to my lit. teacher because she liked my essay, and recommendind and lending books to friends for their assignments(you could pick up anything from the library too.) Here in brazil we have the ENEM, which is basically a standart exam you can take to go to university (much like the MCAT but like, all courses.) and so most schools focus a lot on exams during highschool, and my school isnt different. the difference was that they're selling point was the way they taugh you the writting assignment for the exam. We used to have writing assignments every other week, short story assignments, we even had a movie project once to create, from the movie script to presentation. (very fun project, very engaging). All of our exams from other subjects had written portions, even the math test had reading comprehention as an evalution criteria as a way of teaching us that reading is essential. All of this in the required classes, we didnt have electives either, the only thing that was elective was the sports if you wanted to participate outsite of the school hours (i was in volleyball) It sounds a lot if you didnt experience that, but for us it was normal, most of my classmates graduated to be very successfull, had high grades overall and never really struggled academically. most of them went to university and did super well. the only people who struggled was obviously the people who had learning disabilities such as ADHD, but even they did well because the school had resources. I remember having a hard time with chemistry in my final year because i was very sick and was struggling, i was able to reach out to the couselor and ask for help and they put me in the afternoon study group. i ended up helping my friends with physics and math as exchange lol. We also had a small library in the school that during exam times would get packed with students just genuinely studying there. we had to get there early bc otherwise it wouldnt have enough chairs for everyone. at the end of the year, they would close down a bigger space just to accomodate the students for the finals. (i remember having to sit on the bleachers with my notebooks studying while some people would be playing football during recess). All this to say, it isnt magic, it isnt complicated either, it just needs effort. Actually if you look into the Booktok community here in brazil, you'll have a very different experience, the reading level here seems to be higher as well. i remember the other day a viral tiktok of a lady reading the Alchemist and how amazing but very complicated she though the book was. a book that is read by high schoolers here, i read that one in high school. Is a classic afterall. To me it seems that, and this might be just a conspiracy, that the lack of effort on your education seems very much intentional and a political problem. As if the government and the people in power do not want the population to be intelligent, because they might challenge them. It might be a bias since we faced exactly that during the military regimen half a century ago. Because of that i always encourage people to study, to learn, to read as much as they can, as an act of defiance.
This is partially why I incorporate certain writing into my science classes. Its really small like forcing them to ask questions in reflections or having short answer questions on quizzed and exams but its wild how deer in headlights they can be when they are forced to write the sentence themselves. Like they know the answer but to go from blank page to answer is paralyzing to them
Yes, that tracks with my experience and telling students they will be asked to do essay exams instead of multiple choice. Paralyzing is a good word for it.
That's excellent. My high school physics teacher required that we write in complete sentences, and also had a verbal exam, where she'd talk one-on-one with each student to have them explain conversationally how a concept works. For example, "lift" for an airplane. It helped both with understanding concepts and communicating them in understandable ways
You can pick up reading in your twenties and end up surpassing everyone.... You have to have a house that you like being in where you can keep all your stuff without anyone touching it
14:00 When I attended a public state university as a writer in the nineties, I had to choose English, Journalism (and between the print or broadcast path), or Marketing Communications as a major - and I was excited when we upper classmen were asked whether we would have been interested in a Professional Writing degree of some sort. Everyone said yes! I don't know if they ever added one, and the state system had changed a lot when I was an office temp in a sister school twenty years later.
Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this from the educator's angle. I definitely felt the heavy focus on teaching for standardized testing when I was in high school/college. So sad because I can see how my parents (who were educated outside the US) retained much more general education knowledge than I did.
I agree. It is a problem here too. I’ve started working in a bookshop and keep reassuring customers that there is nothing ‘bad’ in liking romantasy. Let people read whatever works for them.
It takes a really enthusiastic, engaging teacher to make reading “literary” fiction something people look forward to and enjoy. I’ve seen good teachers turn kids who hated books into people who LOVED to read the classics. When you learn that books are more than just memorizing plots and characters, and that writing is this medium to communicate all sorts of themes and ideas, it’s like a whole world is opening up to you. Sadly I think a lot of teachers are burnt out, not supported by institutions, or restricted by the demands of the job and can’t always foster that inspiration in students. Dozens of other things are working against you, like the rise in smart phones, COVID delaying kids from learning, and parents who can’t be active in kids learning as much as they should. From a student perspective, it does make you feel aimless when you are slogging through a text and not really understanding why this “boring” book matters. Why would I ever want to read these hard or advanced books when Harry Potter is way more fun? I can see why a lot of readers in the US tend to gravitate to trendy books that are simpler and more entertainment focused. It’s kinda been that way for a while, but I think TikTok has just amplified the issue because of the nature of the internet. And there’s nothing wrong with entertainment, but I think people do miss out when they limit themselves.
I dropped out of Electrical Engineering more than 35 years ago. But I started reading Science Fiction in 4th grade. By the time I started high school I had read more SF than all of the material that got assigned in high school. English literature teachers don't seem to have a clue about what is actually interesting. I refused to read Catcher in the Rye. Although The Scarlet Letter and The Mayor of Casterbridge were readable, I did not give a damn about them.
This is a really interesting perspective to hear - I agree that a lot of times "women's literature" isn't sometimes seen as "real literature" - I think we have the same issue here in the Netherlands where so many young people just stopped reading becuase the education system is so skewed and overwhelming - and then there is this other layer of "foreign fiction" vs local fiction where we just don't have a local fantasy genre because our Uni's don't see that as real literature (unless it's middlegrade) - but then people complain that when the young people do read its foreign media because they want to read fantasy/romantasy and we don't have that from local authors at all - either way it seems kids are only allowed to read the classics
YES!! That’s a whole other barrier of what can be considered “good enough”. I’m so glad you mentioned it. It’s all the same in the end, someone somewhere is trying to put up barriers to reading and it’s a shame.
I was an elementary ed grad, taught kindergarten and now homeschool in a literature based model. I was excited to talk to a recent college grad who was teaching her first year of english/lit in a Christian high school. I was excited to discuss literature with her. I asked her what her favorite book was to teach, she answered "grade 11 book." Meaning the text book...She didn't teach a single whole literature text, only selections that appeared in a text book! How can you be an english teacher and not teach an actual physical book?!?!?!
That definitely tracks with what I saw in classrooms as well. More text covered in excerpts from a textbook and maybe a class would cover 1-2 novels in a semester.
Reading begins young and should start before a child enters a classroom. Libraries are vital to communities because young children can attend reading hours and pick books to borrow and read. There should be smaller classes and a return of library hours for children to get into reading independently and space to create reading groups where they can discuss a book amongst themselves. These programs have been incrementally cut for decades, and ignoring changing curriculum intensifies the problem. Reading comprehension isn't the only one, but listening comprehension supports the idea of people not thinking critically. People should be close readers whether they are reading nonfiction or fiction. Entertainment should be a by-product of reading, watching a film, or listening to podcasts. It requires focus and engagement whether you are reading a romance, fantasy, or science fiction. It's all literature, and nonfiction work is a form of literature. It's also challenging to be a good writer without being a reader.
This is based on my experience but I understand why students dread taking literary courses. I was one of them and I wholeheartedly agree it starts in public schools. I remember taking AP Lit and AP Language and when we read the books I felt like I wasn't smart enough for the books bc I always interpreted certain scenes or sentences differently than my teacher and sometimes the entire class. My essays would always bomb and overall I wouldn't do well. It wasn't until I got to college I had this amazing professor who showed me how to write essays that it became second nature. She taught me how to critically think instead of immediately trying to interpret what was being said. Something I wasn't taught in public schooling. When it comes to classics I always felt intimidated to read them because those memories of not understanding in school would come back. So I thought, why bother trying? It wasn't until I decided to pick up The Count of Monte Cristo, because of a TV show, that I realized that classics weren't that bad. I surprised myself that I understood the text, metaphors, and Alexandre Dumas's pros. This motivated me to read other classics and now when I go to my thrift store I actively look for classics to read. I think my love for classics came about because I didn't feel pressure to understand the text for a test, I wasn't being forced to memorize or interpret it a certain way. That's why I highly think that public schools ruin reading for many students. They make it a chore instead of an opportunity to see society, relationships, and people's thoughts in a new way. That's why young people are gravitating towards easy reading bc it's instant gratification while public schools are making literary fiction and classics a chore.
These are important points. I see a lot of people online upset about romantasy because they think its taking away sales from other genres (that they like, so those are the "right" books to be reading). I honestly don't know enough about it but I get the sense that a large chunk of those sales are from new readers who finally found something to enjoy, so those sales people are complaining about just wouldn't have existed in the first place. Let the girls read!!!
Oooh sales, that’s an angle I haven’t thought of either. I think when young women drive sales that companies want to capitalize on that, but it’s still not considered “serious” or “thought provoking” because it’s being catered to young women.
So, how would you get these beginning readers to take the next step into reading more widely? Unlike you, I'm not happy that they're reading books preparing them to accept abusive relationships or even abusive politicians as normal. I know that's that's their starting place, but I don't want it to be their finish line.
I’ve been thinking about how to respond and it’s such a tough one. On one hand, I think if we take romance as a genre for example, we could encourage beginning readers to explore the different sub genres like historical romance, romantic suspense, etc. Perhaps starting in the genre they love but exploring sub genres will give them the confidence to move to something like historical fiction, literary fiction or mystery/suspense. If this reader is close to you, you could potentially ask to read the book along side them and ask the tough questions of what it is they see in this relationship that makes them want to read about it. Debrief the content of what they read. Is it an opening to a larger conversation of coercive control and how to identify it, how to talk to friends about it? Is it an opening to safely talk about sexual fantasies? I’m at as much of a loss as you, but I do still want to keep books in people’s hands.
I'm not a tiktok user, so I am only seeing snippets of this via youtube, but I find it a real shame that people have to defend their choice of reading material. I do agree with your educational perspective- I have had experience at UK schools of basically being taught literature to test/exam. Pretty much a waste of time. I'd love to see books people would more likely connect with on the syllabus - it might make a difference to general enthusiasm levels.
Really appreciate this video and totally agree with everything you said!! Live and let live, just be happy that people are reading. There really are bigger problems in the world than what type of books the booktok girlies are reading. Any and every type of story has value, and it's honestly sad that people have to defend their reading preferences. We can and need to do better ❤
📚 Excellent points. I've often thought we are seeing public schools becoming education for the poor and the death of publishing. Look at the price of books on Amazon compared to the price of books in an indie bookstore, what it the goal of Amazon is to drive all brick and mortar bookstores out of business then the dominoes would drop physical publishing out of business completely. Amazon would then control all of literature via Kindle and Audible. It could happen.
Great video! I’ve never been on tictok but am aware of the romantacy trend. I’m all for whatever gets more people reading and I agree people should be able to read whatever they want. My girlfriend who normally reads maybe 1-3 books a year binged acotar in maybe 6 weeks reading along with her sister in her 40s and mom in her 70s. I got her another Sarah j mass series for Christmas. People that judge other people for liking certain things and not doing anything wrong drive me crazy. I also agree that our public education system has failed us. I know multiple high school teaches in different states who every year have kids graduating high school who are accepted into college who genuinely cannot read and write. At least we can read our fantasy stories and disassociate from the world😆 Hope you enjoy the rest of your day!
I love that your girlfriend and mom and sister came together to read acotar! That’s what it’s supposed to be about! Just enjoy what you enjoy!! I’m sure your teacher friends could also have tales from the lockdown teaching years too. The number of students that were allowed to just pass was alarming.
I do have my degree in creative writing and I have published a book and I can tell you no one cares 🤣 Which is fine, the only barrier to fiction writing should be whether one can write a good story--and the public decides that. TikTok is one way to make that happen and I'm happy so many authors are finding success there and readers are finding things they love. I'm not a teacher but I did spend over a decade in retail and hostipatility training teens in their first job and I've told anyone who asks that there's been a pretty sharp decline in literacy (reading comprehension) since 2016, well before booktok. Personally I think it's a failing of the education system and we should be reflecting inward on what's shifted there not crapping on people having a good time while practicing a needed skill.
I have friends who are teachers and I feel for them because their students who have a lower reading level than they should be at and their students are only focused on testing. Which is sad because I remember only worried about testing a month before the testing. And, I think technology is playing a part because most people are doom scrolling (I’m in this camp) and so our brains only way short form content so I can see why people only want to read the dialogue because their brain (I’m assuming) only wants the quick information. Again, I’m not a scientist this is assumption. Our educational system has failed our students, I think there are a multitude of factors but I think we should bring in books that our students can relate to and not read the classics. I’m not saying classics our bad but our students can get the same lessons from a classic in a “modern” book
Like you say, women's reading habits have always been critiqued (and I know not all of booktok / romantacy readers are women, but it's how these books are classified) - when I was a teenager it was "chick lit" that got the brunt of it, but pretty much anything that wasn't a "classic" was viewed as a waste of time. Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey talks about how novels are thought to rot women's brains (although the heroine is the only one of four readers who suffer from separating fiction and reality), and so many women used to, and still do, publish under men's names or initials. (Meanwhile, it was well known that often books were owned as status symbols, not necessarily read, no matter how large a man's library might be). I'm in the UK but I would agree that critical thinking isn't taught in the way it used to be - it's a different medium but a colleague recently said that he thought "horror movies aren't about what they're about" like he'd just created media literacy / critical theory. There is a difference between "academic" reading and reading for pleasure, and there should be. I have a degree in literature. Yes, I could probably pick up the current booktok favourite romantacy and write an essay on it, but I have taught myself to turn off that part of my brain when I'm reading for enjoyment. Leisure activities are important, reading for pleasure os valuable and valid. Late stage capitalism has taught us that we always have to be productive, but as someone with a recently developed energy limiting illness who can only count lying in the dark with my eyes shut as resting, I have to measure out the time I put into leisure activities or "active rest". It is entirely necessary for our mental wellbeing.
I agree that our educational system has always been the issue and I think that booktok is the … symptom of that issue. I’m not on tik tok lol it’s not for me but from what I’m hearing…. It seems to be promoting a …. Less critical reading experience. And that’s ok, people can do and follow what they want too. If you do want to think critically or do all the things I believe one will find their way…. That kind of person won’t be dependent on tik tok to begin with.
Sure, the intellectual complexities and challenge of reading certain books varies greatly. But reading fiction also builds the readers ability to empathize and process strong emotions. There is a real need for that in these current times. Typically labeled women’s literature like romance provides that like no other genre. Men who are know for their low emotional intelligence imo would benefit from reading romantasy and such. But that’s a topic for another video essay perhaps 😊
Oh yes, I didn’t even approach the topic of emotional intelligence. Romance as a genre will always offer a “happily ever after” and that just isn’t good enough for some people.
I agree that there's snobbery around Booktok (and almost certainly sexism too). But it's mostly _not_ about popular Booktok authors not having creative writing qualifications IMO (any sane critic surely understands that criterion excludes _many_ writers considered "great" including, of course, Shakespeare :). The criticism i've seen is mostly just that a lot of romantasy etc. is _badly_ written. And my issue there is, that's subjective and/or gatekeeping - no one gets to tell you how you should feel about a book, you decide that for yourself. So I totally agree that people should just read whatever they want to read (for me personally that's _not_ romantasy but as a sci-fi fan of many decades, I totally understand what it's like to have the "literary establishment" look down their nose at your favourite genre so you do you, enjoy what you enjoy etc.). Where we disagree is, no, audio books are _not_ "real reading". That's simply definitional. Audio books are a great way to access books, especially for people with reading difficulties so if you _really_ mean "they're no less _valid_ a way to _experience_ a book" then 100% agreed. But we already have a word for that process - we call it "listening" :). Listening to an audio book _isn't_ reading, that's a different process, uses different parts of the brain, different perceptual apparatus etc. (personally for instance, I have a "reading voice" which I can't "hear" when listening to an audiobook). We can consider them equally valuable without trying to rewrite reality.
Good video. Not sure I agree with everything you said. I totally agree that everyone should consume books in whatever format they choose and works for them. Yet you complain about critical thinking and then try to argue that listening to a book is reading? Reading has a meaning, does it not? If you listen to a song, are you reading it? If you read a book to your child, is he/she reading it? Of course not. Be well, stay safe!
I see your point, and I think that’s along the same argument of whether a hotdog could be considered a sandwich. It’s the concept versus definition. I meant in the context of reading comprehension, that audiobooks should be considered a form of reading if someone learn better through auditory reading than physical reading.
@@robertpatenaude (genuine question, although text tone can be hard to read, so just clarifying that I'm not being adversarial) I'm intrigued by why you feel an audiobook would prevent critical thinking?
@@TheCraftyNarcoleptic Didn't say that listening to an audio book prevents critical thinking. I said that listening to an audiobook is not reading. Words have meanings.
@@robertpatenaude words have meaning, absolutely, but ours is a living language and meanings can change. What is there to be gained from saying that listening to audiobooks isn't reading, other than being prescriptive in the definition? What part of calling listening to an audiobook reading defies critical thinking for you?
yes, everyone should read what they want, however, the crux of your video seems to be that students are no longer prepared for higher education because they cannot read critically. reading for fun, reading ''dark romance'' is reading, sure. but it's not the same as reading critically, which requires more than reading words on the page. i say this as someone who went to law school myself - prospectvie law students have to be reading widely in order to be able to think critically. if they are not reading non fiction, literary fiction etc, they should atleast be reading around the law! and this kind of deep understanding does not come from reading easy reading books, it just doesn't. i learnt to think critically through reading classics and modern classics in school, by engaging in wider reading during A-Level English and History (which was predominantly moden classics and historical books). this is critical engagement. and telling young girls that reading books where abusive men are being protrayed as 'morally grey' is preparing them to put up with bad behaviour from men under the guise of 'he hates everyone but me,' 'he's scary but not to me' etc. if the point of your video is, readers need to engage critically with what they're reading, i absolutely agree, but i don't believe, in good conscience, that that is what's happening! and reading those kinds of books without reading the occasional classic, literary fiction, memoir, etc, is the same as reading through the tweets on your timeline or reading through a subreddit on reddit, and saying, 'well, at least they're reading!' it just doesn't engage the same critical thinking skills at all, in my opinion.
and i don't mean to imply that it's meritless to read books that are considered easier to digest. everyone reads some books that have, perhaps some 'lower literary merit.' but if you cannot pick up a single book that's not from an independent author on kindle unlimited, or you cannot read even a chapter of a non-fiction book, you are simply not the same kind of reader who can, and you're *probably* not going to succeed in higher education. the most intelligent, engaging people i know read a good amount of both, and i personally did not meet a single person in law school who did not read traditionally published fiction.
also yes, this conversation can ignore the misogyny involved, absolutely. but it don't think that's the primary issue, to be honest!
Thank you for this comment. I'd say it is on point. If those readers read romantasy for enjoyment then amazing - I enjoy the type from time to time ❤ I am already able to apply a certain level of critical thinking to know which actions/representation etc. may not be healthy in real life as I read harlequin books, as well as classics, non fiction, fantasy etc. So if you see tiktoks with comments that have reviews that romanticize dengerous behaviours, it is different from giggles at a fun book. Yes, both type of readers are readers. Readers who only ever consume one type of media are less likely to be well rounded critical thinkers. As usual, to me this is all about balance. Or if you practice your critical thinking outside of books of course it’s also fine, you can achieve this balance that way. People try destroying and banning books for a reason - not a good one, but because we have understanding books can influence us a lot. So yes, lets read what we want but lets not promote only one type of literature thoughtlessly. And I will argue you can be a writer when you write but not always a good writer just because you do. Issue is that romantasy is churned out just as cash grabs and quality indeed can be low, to push them out quicker, just the same thing consistently. How else to expand our vocabulary and thinkinf if the books follow the same pattern structure, character rep wise , plot wise etc?
Thank you for widening this discussion because I do see a lot of value in what you’re saying.
This goes along with my secondary argument that we have to put aside our internal biases of what genres can even illicit a critical response or the ability to engage in the text.
If a dark romance allows readers to explore a sexual fantasy in a safe environment, or perhaps gives people an opening to discuss coercive control from the main character of the book, does that not count as engagement in the text?
Yes, I also didn’t have enough time to go down the thread that debriefing what we’ve read from a dark fantasy can and should be promoted. Because you’re right, I am a 37 year old woman with life and dating experience and can separate the text from real life. But if some readers are an age where they have not fully developed their reasoning skills are getting their hands on books with tough subject matter, they may not have someone to discuss what they read except through booktok.
"The only thing you need to be a writer, is to start writing." 15:35 Yes! 💜💜💜💜💜
As someone who taught K-2 for 9 years in public schools. I can definitely tell you that we need smaller class sizes so we can get these kids reading before they go to the upper grades. I can't tell you how many times I have wished for more time with a group of students because they don't know all the sounds of the letters. But it's impossible to carve out that time when you have 20+ kindergarteners in a room with you. Those foundational reading years are so crucial to setting kids up to be amazing readers in the future if teachers have the ability to support those who struggle. Its so sad to see kids in 4th grade struggle to sound out words because they didn’t automate their letter sounds in 1st grade.
And the struggle and frustration only makes them dread the reading all the more.
Yes, I have heard the same from other primary school educators. The shift away from phonics and the focus on sight reading has not helped students at all and you are right, they are struggling early and it compounds their dread!
Yeah. to me the tiktok situation is more of a reflex of the actual problem, like a public showcase, a case display. its the result of an education system that actively discourages people from reading.
I actually have a bit of an outsiders POV when it comes to this subject. Im from brazil and my education was very different, i studied in an amazing school that taught me literacy from a very young age. I was also quite a gifted kid since I've learned how to read at the age of four. I'm an outlier in this but i'd like to compare to any of my classmates, most of them had higher reading comprehension, writing skills and were in some shape or form active readers.
the thing is, although my education was excellent, what they were doing isn't a miracle, nor anything wild. We had our standart curriculum, we studied to exams, and we had normal classrooms with 30 kids running around. What was different was the approach to all of this.
I do want to add though, the brazilian standart curriculum is broader and more complete than the USA's imho, and that counts a lot, specially since all of public and private schools (yes even the religious schools) are obligated by law to follow it.(so none of that bullshit about not teaching evolution, book banning etc)
More than that, we had literature classes and writing classes ever since year 5, and before that the subject was introduced in the language classes(portuguese in this case). You as a student was obligated to read a few books a year, the catch? you could choose! I still have a few of my adored fantasy books that i did assignments on. I remember me as a little kid recomending books to my lit. teacher because she liked my essay, and recommendind and lending books to friends for their assignments(you could pick up anything from the library too.)
Here in brazil we have the ENEM, which is basically a standart exam you can take to go to university (much like the MCAT but like, all courses.) and so most schools focus a lot on exams during highschool, and my school isnt different. the difference was that they're selling point was the way they taugh you the writting assignment for the exam. We used to have writing assignments every other week, short story assignments, we even had a movie project once to create, from the movie script to presentation. (very fun project, very engaging). All of our exams from other subjects had written portions, even the math test had reading comprehention as an evalution criteria as a way of teaching us that reading is essential. All of this in the required classes, we didnt have electives either, the only thing that was elective was the sports if you wanted to participate outsite of the school hours (i was in volleyball)
It sounds a lot if you didnt experience that, but for us it was normal, most of my classmates graduated to be very successfull, had high grades overall and never really struggled academically. most of them went to university and did super well. the only people who struggled was obviously the people who had learning disabilities such as ADHD, but even they did well because the school had resources. I remember having a hard time with chemistry in my final year because i was very sick and was struggling, i was able to reach out to the couselor and ask for help and they put me in the afternoon study group. i ended up helping my friends with physics and math as exchange lol.
We also had a small library in the school that during exam times would get packed with students just genuinely studying there. we had to get there early bc otherwise it wouldnt have enough chairs for everyone. at the end of the year, they would close down a bigger space just to accomodate the students for the finals. (i remember having to sit on the bleachers with my notebooks studying while some people would be playing football during recess).
All this to say, it isnt magic, it isnt complicated either, it just needs effort. Actually if you look into the Booktok community here in brazil, you'll have a very different experience, the reading level here seems to be higher as well. i remember the other day a viral tiktok of a lady reading the Alchemist and how amazing but very complicated she though the book was. a book that is read by high schoolers here, i read that one in high school. Is a classic afterall. To me it seems that, and this might be just a conspiracy, that the lack of effort on your education seems very much intentional and a political problem. As if the government and the people in power do not want the population to be intelligent, because they might challenge them. It might be a bias since we faced exactly that during the military regimen half a century ago.
Because of that i always encourage people to study, to learn, to read as much as they can, as an act of defiance.
This is partially why I incorporate certain writing into my science classes. Its really small like forcing them to ask questions in reflections or having short answer questions on quizzed and exams but its wild how deer in headlights they can be when they are forced to write the sentence themselves. Like they know the answer but to go from blank page to answer is paralyzing to them
Yes, that tracks with my experience and telling students they will be asked to do essay exams instead of multiple choice. Paralyzing is a good word for it.
That's excellent. My high school physics teacher required that we write in complete sentences, and also had a verbal exam, where she'd talk one-on-one with each student to have them explain conversationally how a concept works. For example, "lift" for an airplane. It helped both with understanding concepts and communicating them in understandable ways
You can pick up reading in your twenties and end up surpassing everyone.... You have to have a house that you like being in where you can keep all your stuff without anyone touching it
14:00 When I attended a public state university as a writer in the nineties, I had to choose English, Journalism (and between the print or broadcast path), or Marketing Communications as a major - and I was excited when we upper classmen were asked whether we would have been interested in a Professional Writing degree of some sort. Everyone said yes! I don't know if they ever added one, and the state system had changed a lot when I was an office temp in a sister school twenty years later.
Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this from the educator's angle. I definitely felt the heavy focus on teaching for standardized testing when I was in high school/college. So sad because I can see how my parents (who were educated outside the US) retained much more general education knowledge than I did.
I agree. It is a problem here too. I’ve started working in a bookshop and keep reassuring customers that there is nothing ‘bad’ in liking romantasy. Let people read whatever works for them.
The shame of getting themselves caught in the wrong aisle of the bookstore!! (Sarcasm, lol).
It takes a really enthusiastic, engaging teacher to make reading “literary” fiction something people look forward to and enjoy. I’ve seen good teachers turn kids who hated books into people who LOVED to read the classics. When you learn that books are more than just memorizing plots and characters, and that writing is this medium to communicate all sorts of themes and ideas, it’s like a whole world is opening up to you.
Sadly I think a lot of teachers are burnt out, not supported by institutions, or restricted by the demands of the job and can’t always foster that inspiration in students. Dozens of other things are working against you, like the rise in smart phones, COVID delaying kids from learning, and parents who can’t be active in kids learning as much as they should.
From a student perspective, it does make you feel aimless when you are slogging through a text and not really understanding why this “boring” book matters. Why would I ever want to read these hard or advanced books when Harry Potter is way more fun?
I can see why a lot of readers in the US tend to gravitate to trendy books that are simpler and more entertainment focused. It’s kinda been that way for a while, but I think TikTok has just amplified the issue because of the nature of the internet. And there’s nothing wrong with entertainment, but I think people do miss out when they limit themselves.
I dropped out of Electrical Engineering more than 35 years ago. But I started reading Science Fiction in 4th grade. By the time I started high school I had read more SF than all of the material that got assigned in high school.
English literature teachers don't seem to have a clue about what is actually interesting. I refused to read Catcher in the Rye.
Although The Scarlet Letter and The Mayor of Casterbridge were readable, I did not give a damn about them.
This is a really interesting perspective to hear - I agree that a lot of times "women's literature" isn't sometimes seen as "real literature" - I think we have the same issue here in the Netherlands where so many young people just stopped reading becuase the education system is so skewed and overwhelming - and then there is this other layer of "foreign fiction" vs local fiction where we just don't have a local fantasy genre because our Uni's don't see that as real literature (unless it's middlegrade) - but then people complain that when the young people do read its foreign media because they want to read fantasy/romantasy and we don't have that from local authors at all - either way it seems kids are only allowed to read the classics
YES!! That’s a whole other barrier of what can be considered “good enough”. I’m so glad you mentioned it.
It’s all the same in the end, someone somewhere is trying to put up barriers to reading and it’s a shame.
I was an elementary ed grad, taught kindergarten and now homeschool in a literature based model. I was excited to talk to a recent college grad who was teaching her first year of english/lit in a Christian high school. I was excited to discuss literature with her. I asked her what her favorite book was to teach, she answered "grade 11 book." Meaning the text book...She didn't teach a single whole literature text, only selections that appeared in a text book! How can you be an english teacher and not teach an actual physical book?!?!?!
That definitely tracks with what I saw in classrooms as well. More text covered in excerpts from a textbook and maybe a class would cover 1-2 novels in a semester.
Reading begins young and should start before a child enters a classroom. Libraries are vital to communities because young children can attend reading hours and pick books to borrow and read. There should be smaller classes and a return of library hours for children to get into reading independently and space to create reading groups where they can discuss a book amongst themselves. These programs have been incrementally cut for decades, and ignoring changing curriculum intensifies the problem. Reading comprehension isn't the only one, but listening comprehension supports the idea of people not thinking critically. People should be close readers whether they are reading nonfiction or fiction. Entertainment should be a by-product of reading, watching a film, or listening to podcasts. It requires focus and engagement whether you are reading a romance, fantasy, or science fiction. It's all literature, and nonfiction work is a form of literature. It's also challenging to be a good writer without being a reader.
This is based on my experience but I understand why students dread taking literary courses. I was one of them and I wholeheartedly agree it starts in public schools. I remember taking AP Lit and AP Language and when we read the books I felt like I wasn't smart enough for the books bc I always interpreted certain scenes or sentences differently than my teacher and sometimes the entire class. My essays would always bomb and overall I wouldn't do well. It wasn't until I got to college I had this amazing professor who showed me how to write essays that it became second nature. She taught me how to critically think instead of immediately trying to interpret what was being said. Something I wasn't taught in public schooling.
When it comes to classics I always felt intimidated to read them because those memories of not understanding in school would come back. So I thought, why bother trying? It wasn't until I decided to pick up The Count of Monte Cristo, because of a TV show, that I realized that classics weren't that bad. I surprised myself that I understood the text, metaphors, and Alexandre Dumas's pros. This motivated me to read other classics and now when I go to my thrift store I actively look for classics to read. I think my love for classics came about because I didn't feel pressure to understand the text for a test, I wasn't being forced to memorize or interpret it a certain way. That's why I highly think that public schools ruin reading for many students. They make it a chore instead of an opportunity to see society, relationships, and people's thoughts in a new way. That's why young people are gravitating towards easy reading bc it's instant gratification while public schools are making literary fiction and classics a chore.
These are important points. I see a lot of people online upset about romantasy because they think its taking away sales from other genres (that they like, so those are the "right" books to be reading). I honestly don't know enough about it but I get the sense that a large chunk of those sales are from new readers who finally found something to enjoy, so those sales people are complaining about just wouldn't have existed in the first place. Let the girls read!!!
Oooh sales, that’s an angle I haven’t thought of either. I think when young women drive sales that companies want to capitalize on that, but it’s still not considered “serious” or “thought provoking” because it’s being catered to young women.
So, how would you get these beginning readers to take the next step into reading more widely? Unlike you, I'm not happy that they're reading books preparing them to accept abusive relationships or even abusive politicians as normal. I know that's that's their starting place, but I don't want it to be their finish line.
I’ve been thinking about how to respond and it’s such a tough one. On one hand, I think if we take romance as a genre for example, we could encourage beginning readers to explore the different sub genres like historical romance, romantic suspense, etc. Perhaps starting in the genre they love but exploring sub genres will give them the confidence to move to something like historical fiction, literary fiction or mystery/suspense.
If this reader is close to you, you could potentially ask to read the book along side them and ask the tough questions of what it is they see in this relationship that makes them want to read about it. Debrief the content of what they read. Is it an opening to a larger conversation of coercive control and how to identify it, how to talk to friends about it? Is it an opening to safely talk about sexual fantasies?
I’m at as much of a loss as you, but I do still want to keep books in people’s hands.
I'm not a tiktok user, so I am only seeing snippets of this via youtube, but I find it a real shame that people have to defend their choice of reading material. I do agree with your educational perspective- I have had experience at UK schools of basically being taught literature to test/exam. Pretty much a waste of time. I'd love to see books people would more likely connect with on the syllabus - it might make a difference to general enthusiasm levels.
I really liked hearing your perspective a lot and enjoyed this video
Thank you so much! 😊
When I was in elementary/middle school we used to have 'reading comprehension' courses. Do they still do that?
Thank you!!! 📚📚📚 This is such a breath of fresh air to hear a different perspective on the topic 😁
Really appreciate this video and totally agree with everything you said!! Live and let live, just be happy that people are reading. There really are bigger problems in the world than what type of books the booktok girlies are reading. Any and every type of story has value, and it's honestly sad that people have to defend their reading preferences. We can and need to do better ❤
Yeah, defending your reading choices shouldn’t need to be a thing.
📚 Excellent points. I've often thought we are seeing public schools becoming education for the poor and the death of publishing. Look at the price of books on Amazon compared to the price of books in an indie bookstore, what it the goal of Amazon is to drive all brick and mortar bookstores out of business then the dominoes would drop physical publishing out of business completely. Amazon would then control all of literature via Kindle and Audible. It could happen.
Great video! I’ve never been on tictok but am aware of the romantacy trend. I’m all for whatever gets more people reading and I agree people should be able to read whatever they want. My girlfriend who normally reads maybe 1-3 books a year binged acotar in maybe 6 weeks reading along with her sister in her 40s and mom in her 70s. I got her another Sarah j mass series for Christmas. People that judge other people for liking certain things and not doing anything wrong drive me crazy. I also agree that our public education system has failed us. I know multiple high school teaches in different states who every year have kids graduating high school who are accepted into college who genuinely cannot read and write. At least we can read our fantasy stories and disassociate from the world😆 Hope you enjoy the rest of your day!
I love that your girlfriend and mom and sister came together to read acotar! That’s what it’s supposed to be about! Just enjoy what you enjoy!!
I’m sure your teacher friends could also have tales from the lockdown teaching years too. The number of students that were allowed to just pass was alarming.
I do have my degree in creative writing and I have published a book and I can tell you no one cares 🤣 Which is fine, the only barrier to fiction writing should be whether one can write a good story--and the public decides that. TikTok is one way to make that happen and I'm happy so many authors are finding success there and readers are finding things they love. I'm not a teacher but I did spend over a decade in retail and hostipatility training teens in their first job and I've told anyone who asks that there's been a pretty sharp decline in literacy (reading comprehension) since 2016, well before booktok. Personally I think it's a failing of the education system and we should be reflecting inward on what's shifted there not crapping on people having a good time while practicing a needed skill.
I have friends who are teachers and I feel for them because their students who have a lower reading level than they should be at and their students are only focused on testing. Which is sad because I remember only worried about testing a month before the testing.
And, I think technology is playing a part because most people are doom scrolling (I’m in this camp) and so our brains only way short form content so I can see why people only want to read the dialogue because their brain (I’m assuming) only wants the quick information. Again, I’m not a scientist this is assumption.
Our educational system has failed our students, I think there are a multitude of factors but I think we should bring in books that our students can relate to and not read the classics. I’m not saying classics our bad but our students can get the same lessons from a classic in a “modern” book
Like you say, women's reading habits have always been critiqued (and I know not all of booktok / romantacy readers are women, but it's how these books are classified) - when I was a teenager it was "chick lit" that got the brunt of it, but pretty much anything that wasn't a "classic" was viewed as a waste of time.
Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey talks about how novels are thought to rot women's brains (although the heroine is the only one of four readers who suffer from separating fiction and reality), and so many women used to, and still do, publish under men's names or initials. (Meanwhile, it was well known that often books were owned as status symbols, not necessarily read, no matter how large a man's library might be).
I'm in the UK but I would agree that critical thinking isn't taught in the way it used to be - it's a different medium but a colleague recently said that he thought "horror movies aren't about what they're about" like he'd just created media literacy / critical theory.
There is a difference between "academic" reading and reading for pleasure, and there should be. I have a degree in literature. Yes, I could probably pick up the current booktok favourite romantacy and write an essay on it, but I have taught myself to turn off that part of my brain when I'm reading for enjoyment.
Leisure activities are important, reading for pleasure os valuable and valid. Late stage capitalism has taught us that we always have to be productive, but as someone with a recently developed energy limiting illness who can only count lying in the dark with my eyes shut as resting, I have to measure out the time I put into leisure activities or "active rest". It is entirely necessary for our mental wellbeing.
@@TheCraftyNarcoleptic Yes I love this. Leisure reading is incredibly important
Uff da, yeah, I can imagine that moving from Minnesota's education system to that if Texas would be a big culture shock. 📚
Lol, HUGE shock.
Good talk. Plus, I completely agree with your conclusion. 👍 New viewer. Glad I clicked.
Thanks for watching! 😊
Yes! I agree with you. The education system is the issue. This was a great video and very insightful 👏🏿 👍🏿 👌🏿
Thank you so much 😊
I agree that our educational system has always been the issue and I think that booktok is the … symptom of that issue. I’m not on tik tok lol it’s not for me but from what I’m hearing…. It seems to be promoting a …. Less critical reading experience. And that’s ok, people can do and follow what they want too. If you do want to think critically or do all the things I believe one will find their way…. That kind of person won’t be dependent on tik tok to begin with.
Don’t hate me, but I love Colleen Hoover and I love this video
I want to be an author as well help troubled teens
Sure, the intellectual complexities and challenge of reading certain books varies greatly. But reading fiction also builds the readers ability to empathize and process strong emotions. There is a real need for that in these current times. Typically labeled women’s literature like romance provides that like no other genre. Men who are know for their low emotional intelligence imo would benefit from reading romantasy and such. But that’s a topic for another video essay perhaps 😊
Oh yes, I didn’t even approach the topic of emotional intelligence.
Romance as a genre will always offer a “happily ever after” and that just isn’t good enough for some people.
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I agree that there's snobbery around Booktok (and almost certainly sexism too). But it's mostly _not_ about popular Booktok authors not having creative writing qualifications IMO (any sane critic surely understands that criterion excludes _many_ writers considered "great" including, of course, Shakespeare :). The criticism i've seen is mostly just that a lot of romantasy etc. is _badly_ written. And my issue there is, that's subjective and/or gatekeeping - no one gets to tell you how you should feel about a book, you decide that for yourself. So I totally agree that people should just read whatever they want to read (for me personally that's _not_ romantasy but as a sci-fi fan of many decades, I totally understand what it's like to have the "literary establishment" look down their nose at your favourite genre so you do you, enjoy what you enjoy etc.).
Where we disagree is, no, audio books are _not_ "real reading". That's simply definitional. Audio books are a great way to access books, especially for people with reading difficulties so if you _really_ mean "they're no less _valid_ a way to _experience_ a book" then 100% agreed. But we already have a word for that process - we call it "listening" :). Listening to an audio book _isn't_ reading, that's a different process, uses different parts of the brain, different perceptual apparatus etc. (personally for instance, I have a "reading voice" which I can't "hear" when listening to an audiobook). We can consider them equally valuable without trying to rewrite reality.
Good video. Not sure I agree with everything you said. I totally agree that everyone should consume books in whatever format they choose and works for them. Yet you complain about critical thinking and then try to argue that listening to a book is reading? Reading has a meaning, does it not? If you listen to a song, are you reading it? If you read a book to your child, is he/she reading it? Of course not. Be well, stay safe!
I see your point, and I think that’s along the same argument of whether a hotdog could be considered a sandwich. It’s the concept versus definition.
I meant in the context of reading comprehension, that audiobooks should be considered a form of reading if someone learn better through auditory reading than physical reading.
@@robertpatenaude (genuine question, although text tone can be hard to read, so just clarifying that I'm not being adversarial) I'm intrigued by why you feel an audiobook would prevent critical thinking?
@@TheCraftyNarcoleptic Didn't say that listening to an audio book prevents critical thinking. I said that listening to an audiobook is not reading. Words have meanings.
@@robertpatenaude words have meaning, absolutely, but ours is a living language and meanings can change. What is there to be gained from saying that listening to audiobooks isn't reading, other than being prescriptive in the definition? What part of calling listening to an audiobook reading defies critical thinking for you?
@@TheCraftyNarcoleptic Nothing to be gained, just stating a fact. A fact that if you were a critical thinker, cannot be debated?
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