Aerial Film Experimentation - Large Format Friday
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2020
- One large barrier to entry in large format photography is access to good, affordable films. If you're shooting anything larger than 4x5" film, affordable doesn't even seem like a possibility anymore. With a little bit of work and creativity, there's a film out there that might be worth some experimentation. Today, I'm taking 9.5" x 200' of Agfa Aviphot 200 aerial photographic film and putting it to the test. This is the whole process: cutting the film to fit holders, exposing, developing, and sharing my results.
HUGE thanks to my photographer friend Giles Clement for access to this awesome film: gilesclement.com check him out on IG too! / gilesclement
Aviphot 200 Datasheet: www.agfa.com/specialty-produc...
Agfa Aviphot film on eBay: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...
Get a Frickin' Tripod Shirt: teespring.com/get-a-frickin-t...
Questions? Send me an email: largeformatquestions@gmail.com
Content by Mat Marrash: www.matmarrash.com
#largeformat #filmphotography 
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good to see
“Get a frickin’ tripod” t-shirt should be the official uniform of the large format photographer! Fun episode with a neat film alternative, Mat!
The requests keep coming, we might need some merch!
you all prolly dont care at all but does any of you know a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my login password. I would love any assistance you can give me
@Zayd Julian instablaster :)
@Tristan Jaxen thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
@Tristan Jaxen it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account !
Mat, This is a great series and this video in particular for me was cool to see. As an Aerial Photographer for the last 15 years I have shot this film as well as Color Neg, Infrared and Chrome which looks incredible in the giant roll when it’s all laid out. All from small planes with giant aerial camera systems. Mostly the Leica RC- camera series. Sadly Agfa is one of the last companies still making these films and offering them in aerial rolls as digital has all but taken over our industry now. Kodak recently stopped production of ColorNeg 2460 as late as last year. Chrome or Slide film and Infrared are long gone from production. I believe you can still get B&W in PAN80, PAN100 and PAN200 ASA. I’m an aerial photographer by trade but a LF shooter for most of my personal work and I always wanted to try shooting aerial film in my 4x5 or 8x10.
Hey Robert thanks for watching and for your perspective as an aerial photographer! If a non-aerial photographer like me can get a decent result, I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there that would find they can produce great results with this awesome film. I'd say go for it! Also, if you have a giant Aerochrome aerial photo, I'd LOVE to see one in person.
Years ago I worked in Aerial photography, and if I remember correctly, the camera had a vacuum back. After the roll film advanced in the camera, a vacuum was applied to suck the film flat against the hard back of the camera that had very small groves cut into it as vacuum passages, then the exposure taken, the vacuum released, then the film advanced. If you want to try and duplicate this on the cheep. if you have a glass plate holder for your camera, find the thickest flat glass that it can take, in the glass carefully drill a small hole in the center using the smallest carbide drill you can find, then lightly cut an approx. 2cm (3/4 ") sq. grid on it using a small angle grinder with the corner of a diamond cutoff wheel, intersection the hole, the groves could be as shallow as 0.2 mm, or .008 ". On the back side of the glass plate, silicone a small (4mm, 5/32 od) plastic hose with the other end connected to one of those battery operated vacuum pumps used for sucking the air out of home freezer bags.
very nice
Very cool! Actually I beleive that Aviphot 200 today is Rollei Superpan 200, you could find dev times with different developpers on the massive dev chart. I have shot this film in medium format and find quite nice!
Thanks for the tip! Looking forward to shooting more of this film and getting a better feel for it.
Really enjoyed this Mat! Really lovely images too.
Thanks Ian! :)
Great video Mat...thoroughly enjoyed it!
Awesome, thank you!
Another great video, Mat! I've yet to shoot any film like this - it looks so interesting!
While I enjoy the quality and consistency of pre-cut sheet films, I'm really starting to enjoy the unique looks offered by these alternative emulsions. There's so much more than Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji!
I bought one of those 8x10 reels after seeing it in your video. Works great!
Great to hear you're enjoying your 20th Century Camera Reel!
Great presentation, about a process I've been mulling over also! Thanks for posting!
Glad it was helpful!
Super big thanks for this particular video Mat. I've been holding off trying that film which I first spotted when searching for 9x12cm sheet film for my Recomar 33 plate cameras. Now I think I may try it very soon based on your experimentation. The guy who is selling it on eBay is the same guy I bought my second Sakai-Toyo 1/2 plate camera from after he customized it with a 5x7 back. So I've had good experiences dealing with him in the past. I may get a box of 9x12 and 5x7 to try and if it works out I may get some for the 8x10. It's too bad that the film base was too thin for the 20th Century reel.
Thanks Gregg! I'd say it's worth a try at any size. I talked with Jeff at 20th Century Camera about what happened. We're both in agreement that it's likely because I was cutting the film shorter than a standard sheet of film, which the reels need to provide tension and not move while in the tank.
When I cut 4x5 into 2x3 sheets, I just marked in the light where I needed to have the sheet to be for the cut, then put tape there. So in the dark I would just line the sheet up with the tape notch and splice
Great tip, thanks for sharing!
I was just wondering if I could cut photo paper and put them in my 4x5 film holder. You out did me again 😝
Most definitely: yes! I have gotten some great results with glossy Ilford Multigrade V RC, both for landscapes and (flash) portraits. Give it a go! Oh, and black and white paper can be cut and loaded under red light, which makes life a lot easier ;-).
Filibert Kraxner Thank you I am about to order some more paper anyway. So I grab some RC and give it a try.
Hey Terry, you can definitely load photo paper and should totally try it. I use photo paper to test for light leaks in holders and camera backs. Load the paper into the holder, insert into the back of the camera and remove the darkslide. Leave out for up to 1 minute then replace darkslide and process in the darkroom like any other print. If you see marks, you've got leaks.
Thanks for fielding this one Filbert, photo paper is a lot of fun to shoot and gives a neat, classic look like older ortho films.
During my time in NAM I worked with miles of aerial roll film but because the base was thicker it only got 100' to the roll. You haven't lived till you've worked with a 9.5x20 inch negative! Especially when its Aerial Infra-Red Etachrome
I've got to see one of these HUGE Aerochrome positives! Thanks for sharing!
Great video. How did you mark the emulsion side when you cut a roll? Or, is it double emulsion? Thanks for sharing,
Good questions! I have a hole punch for when I'm marking emulsion on x-ray film, and that could have worked. This film was so darn thin and curly, the emulsion side was always curling towards itself so I didn't punch it.
@@MatMarrash I received the Aviphot 200 film and it too is super thin yet in the changing tent th4e 4x5 doesn’t curl noticeably so I had to waste some sheets with a wet finger to find the emulsion side that would stick. Then arrange the plastic bag with a marker for future use.
First 😂 nice video very interesting film
Thanks! 😃
Unrelated, but I love that you use the 20th Century reel for b&w 4x5. I’ve heard of difficulties with density while using a Jobo for b&w due to its use of constant agitation. Have you had any experience or heard much? For now, I use Jobo for c41 from small format through large format, but I do hand inversion for all b&w. TIA.
Hey Jon, while I haven't heard of density issues with constant agitation, I've seen many Jobo practitioners use higher temps and/or dilutions of developers during constant agitation to produce more suitable contrast negative in large format. Many of these photographers were doing so for alt process printing reasons, where DMax is of critical importance. I would consider the 20th Century reel and tank inversion to be the same process-wise as any other tank inversion. Thanks for the question!
OMG. Did you know that the Evans crypt that you photographed is the final resting place of Nelson Evans, a famous Hollywood photographer who grew up less than a mile from Midwest?
Hey Tom! Whoa, that's crazy, I had never been to that part of Greenlawn and just really liked the light. I'm going to look more into this photographer, thanks for the heads-up!
If you have any questions about Evans, just let me know. I’ve been researching his life and work for several years.
I really liked the look of that film. I know there's no way to show the cutting process but cutting film is something I've avoided. $1/shot for 8x10 though... dang. $2 for precut isn't bad
Have you ever shot any of the Ilford Harman Direct Positive Paper?
Michael your comment reminded me how much I loved/hated working with this film. When all goes right, it's one of the best films for the money, but the thin, easy-to-scratch nature of it makes it tricky at best. Worked a little with Harman DPP, but with the rising cost of paper, I think I'll stick to rc paper negatives.
Here in the UK the 4X5 is not affordable any longer ( forget the 5X7 and 8X10 ), not for me anyway. 50 sheets of 4X5 Kodak Tmax 400 ( value size !!! ) £213.00 or $267.00. That is just over $5.20 a sheet. Not so long ago I used to buy the same pack for around £52.00. I think Kodak is having a laugh as we say in the UK. Ilford HP5+ is roughly 1/2 of the price of Kodak but this is still very expensive for a hobbyist or just for experimenting. I find this situation rather puzzling as up to 2015 the price of a roll of 120 film was actually a lot cheaper than a roll of 36 EXP 135 but now they are either the same or more expensive for some reason. The emulsion area of 4 sheets 4X5 film is actually smaller than 36 exp of 135 so how on earth they have come to such pricing is anyone's guess. Rollei is now rolling up the last remaining stock of the Agfa Aviphot as Rollei Retro 80s in 36 EXP 135. it does work well with compensating developers and Pyros.
Bergger Pancro400 is well priced in the UK at 68 GBP per 50 sheets. www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/bergger-pancro-400-4-x-5-inch-50-sheets-iso-400/p6644
Pricing is the main reason I'm making videos demonstrating alternatives. They may not be perfect solutions, but worth a try if mainstream emulsions are pricing you out of a certain format.
@@flipflopsLF Yes it is but It has been out of stock at all the usual outlets for a while but it is more reasonably priced than the others. I am looking at Fomapan 200 at the moment. I have had good results with the 120 version and Adox FX39 at 125 ASA .
@@MatMarrash It is a good job that you are trying to find alternatives and your efforts are much appreciated but, with the exception of the two major film manufacturers and Foma in the Czech republic and possibly Bergger in France, the rest of the stuff available are just the remains of the old Agfa stock taken out of deep freeze and repackaged by a myriad of so called ' film makers ' such as Adox . Once these stocks have gone the supply cease to exist. Just have a look and see how many emulsions marketed as ' new emulsions ' are no longer available.
As the other said great video ! But do you do someting about the thickness of the film ? The film surface can be not as the same place as a usual sheet film ,so, you can be in focus on the ground glass and out of focus when you take the photo .
Hey Philippe, great question. The difference in film thickness is enough that the photographer will notice it when (un)loading and processing, but not going to critically impact focus until depth of field goes < 1mm. In old forum posts, I read that some photographers were adding paper backing sheets to the film to prevent scratches; this could also help get the thickness closer to regular cut sheets.
When using the RotaTrim, do you get scratches on the film when pushing it up through the plastic pressure plate near the cut line? Any further tips on the use of a RotaTrim appreciated! Great videos!
No visible scratches from the cutting process, made sure to gently lift up the plastic guard enough to start the film through the cutter. Still haven't perfected the process, but an optimal setup would include a stopper guide and a precut template to compare final film size.
Have you ever seen any of Bradford Washburns aerial photography?
Thanks for the comment William! I hadn't checked out his work prior to your comment, but oh man those lines and form in those B&W aerial photos!
Just saw your podcast with film photography guys, trying to find info on the wet plate holders?
Hey John thanks for the comment. Those wet plate holders are over at 20th Century Camera: 20thcenturycamera.com/
I would love to see a video where someone actually uses aerial film roll in a magazine made for it. maybe with a diy film emulation on poly plastic
This one might take a while but I'd be down to try this (if I can find somebody willing to let me borrow some BIG gear).
@@MatMarrash Depending on just how much effort your willing to put into this, I have two aerial cameras.
One is a WILD RC5A, an older version related to the Leica RC that Robert Dito mentioned using above (9"x9" image area) as well as a Fairchild K-38 with both the 36" telephoto and 24" normal lens that TP Lyons mentioned using in Nam (9"x18" image area) below.
Both are large, heavy and focused at infinity. If ya want we should talk.
@@karstwalker shoot me an email at largeformatquestions@gmail.com Would be a really cool addition to the show!
Hi Mat, great video! I'm thinking about using the aviphot and developing it in the jobodrum 4531 (rotation developing). How do you think, it is possible? I would like to avoid developing in trays.
Greetings from Poland!
Hi Mateusz and thanks for the question! Since airing this video multiple photographers have reached out to let me know that rotary processing works well with aerial films. It works especially well if you have the Jobo drums made for LF films like the 3010 and 3005.
@@MatMarrash thanks for the answer!
Am I correct that the film's official expiration date was oct.' 03?
Hey John it very well could be. There wasn't much documentation that came with this roll film. If it is nearly 20 years past expiration, it's one of the lowest base-fog films I've ever used!
Yet? “I don’t have 20x24 inch film, YET”???????? Need details
Nothing concrete, but BIG cameras are inevitable.
Thank You Mat I have an 8X10 and a 5X7 and Happy to see yo video I am from Mexico and I live in Berkeley in the 80s@@MatMarrash