Hey Darwin, I just watched this again after, wow, three years. So being that my wife and I are in our 60s now and our joints let us know, I just pulled the trigger on a Zpacks Free Duo. At our age comfort way out does price, and by dropping our old tents for the Duo we also drop 4 lbs. Huge, as you say. Take care.
i dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Ty Diego I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and im in the hacking process atm. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I think my favorite part was your encouragement to buy cottage vendor! I shop the cottage vendors, but I forget, and it just makes me feel great when I'm reminded that I'm supporting USA local and the backpacking/hammocking communities!
Hello Darwin, just getting to know you and your videos. At 63 I am a late comer to UL hiking. Just completed an 11 day trek of Peru's Cordillera Huayhuash using the Duplex and the Arc Blast. Two great pieces of gear, these and my EE Rev. Quilt came in at under 5 pounds. This all made for a pleasant trek. I carried 11 days of food with me and was still under 35 pounds at the start.
Hi Darwin! nice overview of cuben fabric. I think you got the pros and cons just right with three exceptions, but that relates more to shelters than packs or clothing. Both of these can be more of an annoyance than con, but I'm throwing them out anyway. Noise. In wind or rain, a cuben tent or tarp can be really noisy. I had a cuben tarp for use with my hammock, and although it only weighed 6 ounces, whenever it was subjected to wind, it would rattle like nobody's news. I was hearing it even with earplugs in. The second is heat. Although a lot of tents can get hot in the sun, cuben is even more so. Especially if it's a single wall like the Duplex is. Also, unless you get a dark colored fabric, it's quite opaque. So, you don't get that much privacy when changing clothes. The third thing is really more of an annoyance than anything, but once it gets wrinkled/crinkled, it stays that way. And looks like it. This is more apparent on a tarp than a tent, but if you look close once you deploy the tent, you'll see what I mean. All in all, I say the pro's greatly outweigh the con's. Thanks again for the review! Cheers! DonP
opaque means you can't see through something. I think a word like translucent would be a more correct way of explaining what you are talking about, or just say see through! It sucks when you you try to sound smart and get things back words... sorry to be a nit picking Nazi, but English is a shared common language and we should try to use it correctly.
You do a good job going over the pro's and con's of cuben fiber but when you make the compairson of your last pack and tent to the cuben fiber pack and tent you are not really compairing apples to apples. Lots of companies make ultralight gear with nylon. If you were to compair the Granite Gear Vigra 2 and the MSR Fly Lite shelter you will see that you can achieve a combo that comes in at just over 63 ounces. Yes you are still 20 or so ounces more that the cuben fiber but you just saved $500 that you can spend on your camera equipment or other items that can lighten your load. If money is no object then you are correct, cuben fiber will save you some ounces. The gripe I have is when you compare a sports car (Arc Blast) to a SUV (Atmos 65 AG). Also cuben fiber has a low abrasion and puncture resistance but good tentsile strength compaired to nylon material.
"low abrasion and puncture resistance" true. I don't know why this man talks about "crazy durability". Cuben is sandwiched in a layers of plastic which...is not wear resistant...If You have a nylon face layer - You have some...but depending on a denier of that fabric.
Love your posting. I get a lot out of your reviews and thoughts. Although i have never done a walk through on the AT i hiked most of it in sections in 70 s and 80s. I now have done a few 50 mile hikes with scouts and alone, what i noticed is how crowded the trail has become. In the 70's i could walk for two days and see less than 2 hikers. The gear has become so much better and lighter. Now that i am old (with a few joint replacments) i am very please with the newer equipment. I find your review honest and informative. Keep it up.
UL non cuben fiber companies that are cottage size; ULA equipment very nice backpacks Tarptent very nice tents Small but bigger then cottage size: Granite Gear very nice backpacks ( I use a tarptent notch ( 4 stakes min ) , Granite Gear Blaze, enlightened equioment quilt ) about 6 lbs for the big three 26oz, 44 oz, 22 oz = 5.75 Cuben Fiber is good, its very good. But you can come pretty close with alternatives just some Food for thought the main thing is to get out there.
Long time cuben fiber denier here! I just purchased my first Dyneema (formally cuben fiber) pack from Hyperlite Mountain Gear, and it was the best gear purchase decision I have made so far. If you're hesitant to go the Dyneema route because you're questioning it's durability (like I did), look into the black colored packs from Hyperlite Mountain Gear, as they're made to be a little more durable while still retaining the lightweight properties of Dyneema. I purchased the "Southwest 3400" in black, and could not be happier. Doing this allowed me to shave off SEVEN POUNDS of weight, and I feel it on every mountain climb. Cheers!
I would love to Thru hike the AT or the PCT, but due to a J O B and family, it's not possible at least for another 8-14 years (retirement) . My issue is that I know that my life expectancy ( family genetics) probably I won't be around in that time. So I'm starting to plan/ buy gear to start section hiking the AT soon. Thru hiking is a dream, but not a reality for me. So better start living now.
I try to section hike a full two-week trip with the weekends attached every year. This means I have to save up my vacation all year, but it's not that bad once you get used to it. Section hiking is awesome because you can plan an awesome adventure that isn't the same-old-same-old everybody else is doing. I've created my own crazy hikes that link the PCT to other trails and I've also done backpack trips where I didn't even really know where I was going. Just put stuff in my pack and went wherever I wanted to go for however many days. That is a joy no thru-hiker ever gets to experience.
I will be finishing the AT this year. I have been working at it in sections since 2011, so make a plan and stick to it. I have found it best for me to do it in around 2 week sections, and just pick up where i left off doing it Northbound in order. Dont get discouraged by injury or circumstance, I missed a year for injury, and one for the birth of my daughter. If you REALLY want it, you will find a way to get it done.
@@dianesoini loved your comment contribution, your spirit is " the " right stuff" ! and it chimed with me because it brought back memories of completing my recovery from a cardiac incident, by whizzing down to Heath Row and jumping on a plane to Buenos Aires, overnight bussing it to San Juan in Western Argentina, then making my way up into the Andes around Cerro Mercedario and enjoying. my own randomly chosen trekking. At that time due to border tension between Chile and Argentina, maps of the region were not easily obtained, so I just wandered about the mountains making my own sketch maps of where I was and where I had been. I simply added compass bearings taken from salient points. along my way. Its safe enough provided you don't allow too much distance to build up between taking your fixes. A bonus Was The delight of each newly emerging feature of the landscape. Without having a map to blunt the surprises, I had a sense of original exploration. This after all is how the Himalaya and the Kharakoram were opened up by Younghusband and his Ilk in the nineteenth century My only regret was not making time to visit southern Patagonia and the Argentine Lake District. Health and age, ( I'm in my nineth decade now) regrettably put the greater ranges beyond physical capability, but the North Norfolk coastal path ( UK), my old Go- Lite Gust and a U L tent are insistantly calling telling me it's time to make tracks to what little remains of any wild land still accessible to me. With a sub10lbs base weight and easy re-supplys it will be a great little trip for me and my hound, My dog-child has never seen the sea, so for him it will be another great adventure for us to share. Good luck with your plans for your upcoming wilderness journies. Lucky you.There's enough for more than a hundred lifetimes to explore spread right across America. How I envy you, Stay safe, God bless and make sure you get out there and enjoy every minute you've got girl, kind regards, Baz.
@@barryfullick7981 That sounds like a bigger adventure than most people do. And what is the point of all this? Is it for the selfies, the youtube adulation or the big adventures to remember for a lifetime? You might enjoy the videos I made of my recent trek across the southern Los Padres National Forest to connect my local backcountry trails (i.e. "The Condor Trail") to the Pacific Crest Trail.
@@dianesoini Never taken a selfie ever, as for YT adulation, who needs it, who cares? Just had to respond to the spirit of your post. Its about the being " out there " close to nature, exploring a new landscape and above all, the memories, for me As for the bigger adventure than some etc, it was very modest when put alongside any of the epic trails you have in your epic sized back yard. Take care, be safe and get the most you can from your upcoming wanderings, Good luck n God bless.
Just to be clear: If cuben fiber has sewn spots then you must tap the seams to keep it from leaking... All the zpacks tents and backpacks have taped seams to keep water out...
Correct, but no seam sealing... which is the point I was making. Plus the fabric itself is waterproof, so no need for DWR coating. Thanks for Watching! Hike On, Darwin
Awesome video and awesome pros and cons noted in the comments - thanks to the community! Cuben Fibre is something I've thought about and now I have a lot more information to weigh up before deciding whether or not to use it. Many thanks all!
Wow! 4.4 pounds lighter is incredible! Great video man! Every time I had a question watching the video, you answered it. Lightweight, Durable, & waterproof = a win!
I have owned and use two cuben fiber tarps for several years. Super light weight. Cuben Fiber will leak at any sewn seams so depending on where they are you many need to seal those. It is noisy compared to silnylon. Does bother some but not me. While it is strong is easy to puncture but easy to fix with some southern chrome (duct tape). I have made many stuff sacks with cuben and it is easy to do. A couple of other companies that have been in business making cuben gear are Hammock Gear ( tarps ) and Yama Mt Gear ( tarps, tents, stuff sacks and DIY kits )
Hi Darwin. I have the Zpacks Arc Haul and Duplex and couldn't be happier. Being a single wall I no longer have to worry about rushing to get the rain fly on before my tent gets soaked when it is raining. The double entry makes it great for two people and having two vestibules is just plain convenient. Properly staked out, I haven't really noticed problems with it being too noisy in the wind.
Great video on the pros and cons of Cuben Fibre, just sourced the HMG flat tarp and the Northwest 3400 pack, looking forward to using them up on Skye and the Lake District this side of the pond.
Great video and always great to hear from someone that has put a pack on their back everyday for six months. I am a sailor as well and cuben has been a standard to the point no one talks about it anymore when it comes to sails. I hope that we get to see innovation in gear and materials always and there are more and more people willing to experiment and produce products. The whole cottage thing I personally think is misdirected though and keeps people from embracing new gear as those who profess the supporting of small companies seems like a badge of honor. I have been around long enough that people like Gregory, Noall, Hilleberg etc. were all cottage at some point and should still be supported and encouraged. Where I put my line in the sand is the cheap knock offs that plague the environment. Someday the Zpacks backpacks will be made by some offshore company by cheap labor, not innovating or designing themselves. So I will pay more for the originals even if it is 6 times more expensive. Can't wait for your PCT trip.
Another great video. my wife has had the Zpacks Arc Haul for over a year now and she LOVES it. We are hammock campers and are considering cubem fiber tarps from hammock gear but have not pulled the trigger.
Love it!! I have the same Zpacks Arc Blast & Duplex tent. Took them both on the JMT and was very happy. I don't suggest going over 35lbs though. I pushed the weight limit & did do some damage to my pack but they performed all the repairs at no charge. Great vid!
This video is getting me so jazzed for my new Zpacks duplex and arc blast to get here! Tracking shows Monday. Can't wait! Thanks for all the helpful advice. Keep the awesome videos coming!
hay Darwin... I just purchased a starter Bigfoot air mattress from Amazon... 15oz and $30.00 dollars... I have yet to test it on the trail, but it passed the weight in test... It has all the outward appearances of your frugal replacement for the Therma-rest neo air at 150.00 + -- ( $oon)?? Alpine Summit trekking poles just arrived with all the some basic idea$ as your Black Diamond$, but at $37.00... Yours were $63.13 and jumped to $106, I jumped on the Alpine Summit poles, so I am ready to stroll... I was around in the 60's when there was a revolution in the gear of the day. Ivon was making new generations of hardware in his garage... Sierra Design and North Face were new start ups... Now we have Zpacks and a better chance to run through the jungle ( no! that's for you kids?)... Please let them know frugal is never cheap... For me it's down to a nice Sierra stroll... visiting all those vista's of my youth... So let's all just..."Keep on Truckin"...
I have been a fan of Cuben for some time, and have a goodly number of Cuben packs, tarps, bags etc., especially Locus Gear and HMG. it really is a miracle fabric. Two further advantages: 1. It is pleasant to touch, so direct contact with the body is not a problem (e.g. under a tarp on a hot night), or sleeping on a Cuben ground sheet (for which a heavier weight is better, e.g. 1.0, though .51 will work if you look after it), or floor of a mesh inner. 2. Black Cuben (it is more of a grey) is far better for privacy than the standard white, and offers some advantages of not allowing quite as much heat thru. It also looks great, almost like a tweed, definitely an appealing aesthetic. (Check out Locus Gear Khufu in black Cuben with red zip). And the fabric really is as waterproof as described, I have often had my Khufu in sustained monsoon downpours, and it has never leaked.
One tip I have that I did is To start by buying a cheap Cuban pouch like a first aid pouch. That way you can see just how light and strong it is, I Tugged at mine and scraped it on the floor, threw it at the wall, just to see if I could break it. I Couldn't and sobthen I began buying more, a reversable Cuban pillow / clothes sack. A tarp for day camps. I love the stuff.
I love the fact that you support the small companies in the hiking community. That’s the best way to keep the gear and innovation that we love. Thanks for your great vids!!!
I've seen videos and heard of a lot of people cooking inside their tents after a hard day on the trail. From what I can tell, Cuben fiber is extremely sensitive to flame. sparks burn holes in it, and when the fiber is close to flame, it shrivels up quickly. That means, it is pretty important that you keep cuben fiber away from any flame. Even a tossed burning cigarette will melt holes in it... You might want to mention that as a concern...
My cuben fiber hammock tarp with doors is over 5 years old with no problems. It came from hammock gear. The big difference in them and z packs is they don't stitch the ridgeline. so yes, no need to seam seal and never leaks. Easy to patch. just clean area and put a strip of cuben tape on inside and outside like a bandaid and it will be stronger than new. ( I put a hole in mine on a windy day with a stake. was simple to fix.) Big advantage to me is weight after rain. A wet tarp is very heavy. I just wipe my cuben with a small shamwow and there is no water to carry. A little more bulky and the price are the only disadvantages to me. I never hear noise with mine.
Great review, Darwin! Just finished my LNT trainer course in the Shenandoah National Park with the PATC guys, and one of our trainers had a Zpacks Nero. Don't know I could ever go that minimal...but sure was sweet compared to all our gear. Met the Zpack guys this year (Joe & Red Beard) at Damascus Trail Days, and they are really passionate about all their creations...so you are spot on about deserving our support. Wish I could give up my Copper Spur HV UL tent....but it's just too perfect for me! My emergency kit always has to be a higher weight since I'm NOLS WFR...so it's like you and your camera gear trying to shave ounces somewhere else. Thanks for all the great posts.
Nice rundown on CF. I sport a HMG backpack & tent and love them both! Crazy expensive, crazy light. Sometimes it pays to be the old hiker with a well established career (and income) instead of the young-uns with cat food stoves! LOL. Hike on!!!
Thanks to you and many hikers like you providing great information on lighter, better gear. I have transitioned my complete hiking gear to the light weight cottage companies gear. UGQ, Zpacks, HG, LiteAF, gossamer gear, litesmith, Dutchware Gear and so many more. By using them I am able to enjoy the outdoors more and help other hikers by keeping their doors open for future generations of hikers to enjoy their products. Thanks again for the great information and your support.
I have a Teton 4000explorer. It's a heavy pack weighing in at approximately 5.5 lbs. I like it though. Nothing has failed on it and I've had it for 8-9 months. ✌️
You make mention of durable. Just to expand on that and put that in perspective, I had frozen sleet that melted and the ice pieces fell off and punctured multiple holes in my Cuben tarp. I could not repair the tarp at the time due to fog as the repair tape would not stick. It was condensing on the fabric as fast as I could wipe it off. If you go Cuben, keep your side walls as steep as you can during situations of hail or sleet falling. With some luck, depending on the size of the hail, you should be ok.
Hey Darwin, I'm gonna give my 2 cents about this subject...As always though, you do an amazing job covering important topics about the outdoors bro!! 1. More of a question...the atmos is 54oz and the ul2 is 42oz, so I do question the numbers there because that's almost 20 excess ounces I'm missing, help me out please(might be missing something) 2. I'm not saying that you have a deal with them, but for many people that hike and promote by vloggging and so-forth, zpacks and hyperlite do sell uber cheap and even give away their merch to many of them. So, for many other people, the prices are definitely super high as you've mentioned. You did a great job covering even the little things about CF, such as the different thicknesses, and I hope you got the license plate off that squirrel...he'll get what's coming to him!! Keep em coming bro!!
I want to add there is a big company that has been doing it for a long long time . TERRA NOVA LASER ULTRA 1 IS my tent on my scale with there stakes and poles and stuff bag 18 oz they have the world's record for lightest double wall tent in the world
More cons are; almost see through, noisy during a storm, the material stays wrinkled, and gets hot/cold. If weight is a goal.then the material is awesome. I would never use as shelter. Other gear, oh yeah! Thank You. Enjoy Life!!!
Apparently, cuben fiber is very cheap in China, but the patent or trademark protection, enables it to be very costly in America. Thanks for giving me a reason to not get cuben fiber, but super light weight is valuable. And it is considered to be durable. Noise or weight? Hmmm rip stop nylon seems the solution. Thanks
I've heard cuban fiber is difficult to field repair but don't have personal experience. Could be important as it's easy to puncture. Darwin does show a tape patch on a food bag so maybe others can add their experience with repairs.
I switched to a cuben fiber pack and tent and dropped 5lbs off my base weight. The one thing that I never hear anyone talk about, but I noticed it right away, is that my Duplex doesn't have that silicone smell like all silnylon tents do.
Agreed entirely. The lower weight I have with my Zpacks Duo and Arc Blast and jacket makes it easier to carry either pleasures or more water or food. As I get older I find having overall lighter super high reliability gear is essential both for safety and for comfort. I now carry a Garmin Inreach + when I hike alone but that weight is not a problem. I have many kilimeters on my Zpacks for example and only now am thinking of buying the new Solstice jacket as my original is five years old and beginning to wet through these days. Thanks for the videos but please do give things in grams as well for those of us outside America. Dara Ottawa Canada
My biggest gripe with cuben fiber is crinkle and transparency of the fabric. i find it to be useless for tarps when hammock camping in hot climates because it does not offer much shade from the sun. The noise it makes when things rub on it or its flexed will drive you mad. Just wait till you get out in the desert with a cuben fiber tent and all that light streams into your tent first thing in the morning turning it into an oven. I just hope you have good ventilation. Its bad enough with an opaque tent but its 100 times worse with one that is semi transparent. Also note that water proof also means humidity proof. Prepare for some massive condensation. anyways this is m opinion and is based on my experiences with gear that uses the fabric
Trinity Bays wondering if you have problems with condensation in the ZPacks Duplex tent I've been drooling over? Seems like it's well ventilated with all the mesh and double entry.
I haven't had problems with massive condensation in my Zpacks Duplex tent. Condensation is a concern for all single wall tents. I do carry a small, light microfiber towel just in case but usually I've got at least one vestibule door open and I don't experience any issues.
If you want a cheap ultralight camping setup, then hummingbirdhammocks have hammock + tarp + mosqito net, which only weighs 616grams/1,36pounds combined, and the price for all 3 items is only $240. Plenty cheaper and more lightweight than even the Zpacks Plexamid 1 person tents - which is only 420gram; but needs a trekking pole to set it up, which adds maybe 350g extra weight (for a carbon trekking pole). And you also need a sleeping pad for tents, which adds a substantial amount of weight and takes up a lot of room. When i checked for some lightweight trekking pole and (inflatable) sleeping pad for the tent, i ended up at 1,1kg (tent + sleeping pad + trekking pole), which is almost double the weight of the MUCH cheaper hammock setup...
As always another great video!!! The content that you put out is phenomenal!!! I just got back from doing some camping up in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons and let me tell you it was amazing!! I hope to one day be able to hike the AT and the PCT!!
Thank you for the kind words Carrie! I love the Tetons & Yellowstone. Snuggles & I spent some time up there in 2015. Actually the 1st gear review video I did was from a campground in Grand Teton. Thanks for Watching! Hike On, Darwin
This stuff sounds pretty cool, never heard of it until this video. Reading the comments I think I would agree that the noise would be annoying, as I would use this as a tarp over a hammock, but for the same reason the transparency wouldn't be much of a problem as I'm basically outside all the time anyway. The heat things doesn't sound great either. What I would be interested in though, is to see if anyone is making bike pannier bags out of this, I think that would be great. The transparency and heat wouldn't be much of an issue, except keeping meat fresh maybe, and the noise wouldn't be an issue as an item that doesn't really blow in the wind like a tent or tarp does.
Great stuff, just don't use it like a haul bag. I Lowered my "Hyperlite ice pack" down over a granite cliff prior to a rappel, and got a few small dime sized holes where the bag rubbed on the granite on the way down. The lower was only about 50', I was very surprised when I rapped off and got down, only to find my bag with wear (slide) holes in it. Could have been worse i suppose, going to approach Hyperlite soon before Ice climbing season to see if they can repair. I do like the idea of the pack being crazy light, and waterproof on its own without a dry-bag liner, I am now mostly climbing ice and multi-week expeditions at higher altitudes so weight definitely counts. Don't get me wrong, love this stuff, it is revolutionizing the outdoor expedition industry, and i will continue to buy dyneema fabrics to shed weight. Happy climbing....Blue skies to all!!
One of the biggest advantages is that Cuben Fiber is that it doesn't sag when wet. I purchased the Zpacks Duplex tent just for that reason. I spent a very rainy night in a silnylon tent which sagged onto our bags and caused them to become wet. I spent a similar night is a Cuben Fiber tent, while noisier, it didn't sag in the slightest.
Cuben fiber has only been around since the 90's and was invented here in the good ol U.S.A. I'm sorry for my rudeness, but comments like this just aggravate me. Google cuben fiber, you may learn something more useful than peoples nonsensical comments trying to act as though they know something.
Lol. That’s “Cuben” fiber, not “Cuban” fiber. It has nothing to do with Cuba. It was developed and patented in the United States. It hasn’t been around for “generations” either. Honestly Angel, your comment is just nonsense....
I think you have to add in weight of your trekking poles because they're needed for the Zpacks tent and not needed for the heavier setup. Some will say they will carry the poles anyway but its worth mentioning for the beginners or those who don't like trekking poles. Love the videos, Happy Trails.
I love the way you make videos, they are always so thorough, and to the point. Never clickbait, I always seems to find the information I wanted to know, from your videos. Thanks for talking about Cuben fiber, I was interested in knowing more about it.
Zpacks rocks. I have the duplex with the poles option and even with everything weights around 2 pounds including poles, tent stakes MSR ground hogs and footprint made of polyethylene, the got the Arc Haul with extras at about over a pound; can not beat the weight. I do need to save on weight because I like carrying stuff for comfort I am not ready to part with and also I carry my own overweight already being 55 pounds over the weight I need for my height and age. Yes it is expensive but it does helps; my visit to Mount Whitney last year I was about 27 pounds total with food and water at the trailhead and let me tell you I felt it climbing up but I also took comfort seeing other folks carrying 50 and 60 pounds loads. I did not made the summit but was very comfortable when I camped at Outpost, slept well and returned next day to trailhead; another piece I took with me is EE Revelation 20 quilt, which at 24 oz makes a huge difference. Temperature was around freezing but I had a smile in my face. If you can afford it, go for it, you will never regret it after using it for the first time!
I recently placed an order with Zpacks. I've been using a Gregory Baltoro 75L pack, and with tent and sleeping bag the combined weight is a whopping 9.7 pounds. The Zpacks 57L pack, duplex tent, and quilt come in at only 3.8# (not including about another 6-8 ounces for tent stakes). That's a massive difference. Now I just gotta wait for 6-8 weeks.
If you buy a Kelty Trekker 3950...and packed it with light and ultralight gear...you would have a light gear kit and a backpack you could use for many Thru hikers.
Havent seen this in the comments yet so Ill mention it, seam sealing is to cover the holes made by sewing. Cuben fiber gear is still seam taped which is seam sealing.
Speaking of cottage industries and lightweight materials, it’s worth mentioning companies such as Superior Wilderness Designs who are using X-Pac material. It’s a little less expensive than cuben fiber but still very lightweight and extremely tough.
One of the things I've noticed is everyone talks about weight and how light they can get their packs, but I see very few people talking about how to properly pack a backpack. Weight is important, but so is how you set up your pack. You can have a heavy pack that is comfortable to wear if it is packed properly. I'm not saying for people to start carrying around 40lb packs, but I think people need to start putting as much thought and planning into how they organize their packs as they do about the weight that goes in them.
Great video Darwin! I thought you did an excellent job going over the pros and cons of cuben fiber gear. Clearly cuben isn't for everyone, nor can everyone afford it. And that's fine, it isn't a must have to enjoy the outdoors. I think people are getting a little carried away with some of these comments, but hey, I guess that's social media for ya. Anyways, good video and great job on your presentation! Top notch quality videos! Stay safe during your travels.
Have had a HMG pack for years and have used it for a few trips. Great pack and the only con is the cost. But imo, well worth it. Also have had a gauntlet of packs from frame, to internal frame, to no frame, and my HMG is by far my favorite. Going to get their day pack next I think along with their ultimid tent with insert. I have a golite Shangri la 5, in sil nylon, and its heavy, wets out, and takes long to dry. All the companies you mentioned make exceptional gear, can't go wrong with it. Just be prepared for the cost. But I will take HMG over them all. Just like their stuff better.
FYI: Mountain Laurel Designs and Six Moon Designs were selling DCF products years *before* HMG and Zpacks even existed. I personally think that DCF being *water resistant* should be the #1 reason in the "Reason to use it" category. Also, stating that DCF is "lighter/less" weight than other fabrics, specifically in the backpack sector, is simply not the case. It *use* to be when companies were using non-hybrid (CF+Nylon) CF, but almost nobody does that anymore - Zpacks stopped offering that last year, HMG stopped years ago. If you compare a DCF backpack with a Dx backpack, you can see that they weight savings, if any at all, are extremely minimal. Just look at the MLD Burn in Dx vs the MLD Burn in DCF as a prime example of this fact. In reality, the only reason for going with the DCF is a marginally better waterproofness. But that then leads to the question/issue of... is the price of a DCF backpack, just to gain that additional waterproofness, really justifiable, when a trash compactor bag is going to be about $1.00 and weigh only about a ounce, or less if you cut it down to size for your sleeping bag/quilt + puffy. When it comes to shelters, obviously the above "lighter/less weight" factor is not a factor. Shelters is where DCF has domination. That said, there are numerous fabrics now hitting the market that are *very* close to giving DCF a run for its performance. Reference the new The One from Gossamer Gear as a good example. Also, I have a published interview with the company that now owns the DCF patents, DSM Dyneema, over on my website, for those of you that are into the business/tech end of things. hikelighter.com/2015/06/20/cubic-tech-corp-buyout/ it also includes some quotes/interview style, from most of the companies that make DCF products. Lastly, the Zpacks bear bag now uses (and has for a couple of years) a heavier weight DCF, at 1.43 oz/sqyd. Way tougher fabric.
I like what you're saying here. I can dig it. The mark cuban fibers seem hip man. I think I want my next hike to be a 1970's hike. You know free love man, dig? Like cut off jeans, a canteen, and maybe a Svea Optimus diesel stove. A sweet Camp Trails exterior frame backpack and a nice Black Ice sleeping bag with 320 down fill. Bandana, Foster Grants, a tank top with a psychedelic peace sign on it. Hell yea. But I really like the Mark Cuban lite stuff. If they could just make it not so crinkly and loud to sleep and hike next to that would be cool.
As a long time user of the SVEA 123...It burns "white Gas"...Love it with the SIGG cook Kit. I have used this kit for 45 years. I don't bring the smaller pot to shave off a few ounces. EVERY Hiker needs a bandana lol. Back in the day...Thru hikers carried Kelty Tioga packs or Jansport. I had a Kelty modified D-4 that I added a front pocket to and strap points on the flap. I'm old school, so very interested in this ultra light gear
Still have my Svea 123 - was given to me by my college girlfriend's father. The thing's been running at least once a season without so much as a tinkerin for literally around 60 years. And really, it's not *that* heavy.
First off, good video and thanks. Now I know you gave the analogy of the difference between a 15 pound and a 80 pound pack, but even if everything I own was cuben fiber, I'm not getting anywhere near that kind of weight reduction. I still can't justify the cost for weight savings. Now if I had unlimited funds.... :)
CF all the way, at my age pushing 60 and knees that have a few miles on them, its an easy selection. I know its costly but a light pack makes for a much more enjoyable adventure. i would much rather give my money to a local company. Great video, thanks
It needs to be remembered that packs and other gear are designed and constructed for very different activities and uses. I have packs that have lasted over 30 years and that was part of the design criteria, whereas activities like thru-hiking have different design criteria majorly based on the successful and most comfortable completion of hiking that trail. In my mind I equate it with the difference I see when comparing hiking boots with trail running sneakers. The boots have, among their other design criteria, been built to last through some really tough conditions, whereas trail runners have been adopted by thru-hikers specifically for the level of comfort they provide over the mega-mileage of thru-hikes and were not built to last like the boots. Happy feet is, for thru-hikers, a paramount concern and it is therefore considered to be worth it to have to replace the trail-runners every 500 miles or so. Successful completion of the hike might require as many as 4 pair and cost altogether as much as $500 for a single trail hike. Not all hikes and not all other human activities will put value on the same design criteria - that’s obvious. I have great packs just for DSLR camera gear, a pack for the camcorder, a pack for hunting, a pack for day hikes, a pack for weekend or short section hikes. Sometimes the uses for gear designed for different activities can bleed into another use, like the hunting pack which is also great for foraging and mushroom hunting, but keep in mind that the higher the level of specialization which the design criteria provide for, the narrower the scope of the potential use. Right now ultralight gear is the biggest buzzword in thru-hiking - and that is a very narrow use. As compared, for instance with gear for expedition treks, ultra-gear gear depends on the periodic availability of towns and stores and restaurants and hotels. You wear out a pair of trail runners, you buy a new pair at the store in the next town you stop at, or you have them mailed to to you at an upcoming hostel or post office. Bear bags make better bear bags than stuff sacks do. Different activities provide different obstacles and opportunities - it is therefore key to always be sensitive to what they are when you are planning your gear. Don’t let the latest trend or buzzword blind you to that - recognize the differences. Always know, as much as possible, what design criteria must be met by your gear for the upcoming activities - a good general rule for designing your life.
A word of advice for repairing holes in bags. Put the tape on the inside of the bag, I have made many good permanent repairs to river running bags this way.
Good video. One thing that i don’t think you mentioned is that fact that the elongation is close to zero with the composite materials.It is a well known problem with primarily silicone coated nylon fabrics for tents that it will elongate when wet. The nylon fibre can pick up some moisture and then it is also the fact that common fabric is produced in a completely different way. While the fingers composite materials are simply laid out (0, 90 (45) degrees), the yarn in common fabric has to pass over and under and over.. all the time in the weaving process. This makes it sensitive to both shrinkage and elongation. When you use a super low elongation / high tensile strength fiber in the composite material, that’s optimal since it does not have to pass over and under .. understandable? ... :) also, common “silnylons” vary a lot in quality! But since they are coated and not laminated as the composite materials are, they can never be as waterproof or durable. Personally I think it is just a matter of time before the traditional fabric industry will die out and new production processes will rise.
I've seen several instances online of Cuben fiber gear repaired with tape due to tears. One person noting he keeps a foot of Cuben fiber tape with him to make repairs with. That said, they say Cuben fiber tape will not come off once applied. I'm just not sure it's as durable silnylon or traditional materials, albeit definitely lighter.
I love cuben/Dyneema. I have a small asym tarp, and a Z-packs bag so bar, next backpack will be cuben/Dyneema. I have no objections to the crumpled look it takes on but then I love linen and hemp too....I enjoy the translucency of it.
For what its worth, saving weight on the big three is costly but have the biggest weight saving pay offs. 4.4 pounds is huge, Darwin! Also, you have to buy for what your going to use it for. If your not doing a through hike, then you may not need a 60L pack; or if your going solo perhaps you don't need a big tent. Thanks for the video!
I got some granite gear stuffsacks to drop weight and saved a pound over my old Sea-summit Evacs. Totally worth it and haven't failed yet. Will probably get a zpacks bearbag and a pack cover to save another half a pound. I am also looking at a stuffable daypack that could be used for sidehikes basically, you can get a 30L stuffable bag to use within your main pack for the same weight as a Sil stuffsack. Awesome stuff and totally worth it. Not springing for a tent, as I have a perfectly good North Face Mica FL 2 and a new REI quarterdome, but the smaller items are too worth it not to buy. I didn't think it would be worth it to spend 100 bucks to save a pound at first, but then I went on a couple of longer hikes and it is totally worth it. The biggest place I could cut are probably tent and sleeping bag, but I would rather carry a tent than sleep in dodgy shelters with randos. I can handle carrying 3 lbs not to deal with shelters.
Thanks for info that .51oz Dyneema DCF is fine, maybe a little higher, but if you get to 1.0oz Dyneerma DCF its bulky and hard to fold so you might as well switch to Sil-Nylon.
I have a zpacks rain jacket and 2 person tent. I highly recommend both. pricey but worth it. the xl jacket does fold small enough to fit in a jeans pocket but also stays wrinkled in perpetuity.
I only just started looking at ultralight cuben fiber tents from ZPacks and was wondering whether I should go for it or not. I just loved this video and I so much am in the same situation. I don't believe in ultra-light just for the sake of it, I like my comfort and I don't walk just for the sake of adding miles. Recently I completed the West Highland Way with my brand new gear I very carefully selected and gave me great satisfaction. But, I purposedly left all my photographer gear behind because I wanted to see how I do with all that stuff. Knowing I would add an extra 1.3Kg for my next trek, I decided to loose weight for the backpack itself and perhaps a new tent. I saw Zpacks Duplex tent which design I love: obviously designed by hikers for hikers. But still I was wondering about the durability and this video just gave me the answer. I'm gonna start saving so I can go and buy a ZPacks Duplex tent. Thank you
You know for some things tyvek would make better sense. It is cheap and you can make them yourself. A tyvek bag for your tent stakes would be nothing to make and given its use would last forever..
Darwin, really enjoy learning from you. Appreciate your time on the trail. Think about a four thirds camera outfit. Super light compared to DSLR stuff. Lenses are tiny too. Video quality is great.
Ive been considering getting some cuben fiber gear. It seems like awesome stuff. Thanks for the video. I think it pushed me off of the fence. I will definitely try some.
cool to view a video on the day you post. Hey Darwin! Looks like your subscriptions are up! That's great. Watched many of your videos and like your delivery and content. Thanks for keeping it current.
I have the ZPacks Arc Haul which I like. My Duplex developed some small hole where the guy out lines attach to the walls. ZPacks repaired it for free. I think it's possible I was pitching too tight. Otherwise it's been a good shelter.
At 62 weight is very very important to me. Cuban fiber is simply out of my price range for the gear I use, Maybe one day but not today . So with that said as a thru hiker and photographer it is a battle. Obviously I am not the fastest guy on the trail a few less miles than some at a slower pace than most and a desire to get the job done. But mark my words weight is so very important
after the z packs hexamed failure I doubled down and bought the zpacks duplex. it's much better for my 6'2" frame. has much better design than hexomed with 2 doors I expect less condensation. actual weight was 25.5 with 6 stakes, the hexamed was 23.4 with 10 stakes. whole lot more tent for 2 oz. I have not had any good rains to test the duplex yet. (see below for hexomed failure )
After the first section of the sierras of my PCT hike this year the bottom of my arc blast was getting ripped up really bad, I could stick a finger through it! So when glissading take your pack off and have it in your lap.
Flow, it is Cuben (registered trademark brand) of dynemma fabric. Same way that there is Scotch brand of cellophane tape. Kleenex brand of tissue. If you're really lucky you may be able to get large scraps or worn out sails, from a sailmaker's loft, reasonably cheap.
It's interesting watching this video again after a couple of months. I finally ordered a few yards of Dyneema from Ripstopbytheroll, but I think after making some gear if I can get the cash together I'll definitely get a Zpacks Duplex tent. It's like my best tarp/tent wish list made by people who know a lot more than I do. A dyneema back pack.... I think I'll hold off a bit. I'd like a backpack that might be 60L, on my back, but I want it to be 120L when I'm loading it. There's a wedged shaped backpack, not Cuben, that looks easier to load and rummage around in, and which will bulge out for all the extra bulky warm stuff for winter hiking (And my JetBoil skillet instead of being a packing headache will just be a weird bulge someplace.) I also want a bigger mesh pocket on the back to air out and dry out gear, and I'd like a better frame so I can carry more weight (that I know I shouldn't be carrying ...) I think Darwin makes a good point, support these small companies--they are the people advancing the gear we use in the best ways. I currently use an Osprey and it's good, but without these small companies, it would be at least another 20 years before they even considered making brilliantly simple lightweight gear like Hyperlite and Zpacks. And to help, I'll try to buy the tent soon, because I know, like the one time in two years I washed my car in Los Angeles in June-- it rained that week; so as soon as I buy my $600 tent, another dyneema mill will open up and prices will drop. If I'm up in the Sierras when that happens, I won't mind. Thanks Darwin.
No doubt this is the best gear on the market. For me that price, I can't justify. Even with a thru hike coming up... You can still lighten your load significantly without breaking the bank. There are alternatives. Six moons designs make some great affordable lightweight gear.
Best argument for getting pack weight down. I love it. Even if you are a hunter you can carry more hunting gear. Yes thank you so much. I love your videos.
Biggest con for me was how poorly cuben fiber stands up to hail. I was in a hail storm at the Rice Field shelter on the AT in 2016, and my Duplex was destroyed. I sent it back to Zpacks to see if they would be able to repair it, but it was completely destroyed. They were kind enough to honor their 1 year warranty, and they replaced it for me. I know that Red Beard also had that happen to him on one of his hikes out west.
I notice a trend to promote the ease of hiking lighter with high tech gear yet the real goal is to carry more of the stuff you love/need (for the same weight). I'm ok with either, just be clear.
This cuban fiber looks a lot like the Tyvek house wrap I bought a roll of at Home Depot. Same light weight, super strong, and makes that same crunchy sound. I'm going to try and make a pack cover using this product. The Tyvek (a Dupont product) seems like it might be thicker.
Dude thanks for all the vids you are doing they have helped alot .. i have hiked all over NH VT Maine i am going to do the PCT 2018 so these vids are helping me out in research Thanks NH Angry Hiker
I see both sides, but I agree... I think the biggest benefit of the Cuban fiber might be the fact that if you are looking for a pack that weighs under 2 lbs, you are likely to fill it with other quality items that also weigh nothing... If you're a badass like Darwin, doing long, long miles, I totally see the benefit... But I've really enjoyed the smaller Atmos 50, it weighs in at just under 4 lbs, but the anti gravity system is so comfortable and breathable, I'll make up the difference with what goes inside... That comfort is worth the weight for me. Plus osprey still replaces/repairs anything from any era for any reason, if they can't repair it for free... All our stuff is subject to squirrels as Darwin mentions here.
Chris Jones If you put too much weight in these bags, and I think they’re designed for 15 including food and water, then they probably do feel worse cause they don’t have the supportive straps and frames. A lightweight pack has to be the last thing you purchase. Otherwise it’s detrimental. That’s another reason why the average person such as myself can’t afford them. I can’t just buy one or two things, every single thing you carry has to be ultra lightweight.
I'm totally on board with the lighter tent options. However, I can't imagine any packs being more comfortable than my Osprey. My only beef with their packs are they put too many pockets on them.
A lot of this doesn't sound right, although I could easily wrong. I understand while this stuff has high tensile strength it is relatively weak in terms of puncture strength (which would make sense as it was developed as a sail material). I'm almost certain that ZPacks, HMG and the rest do not make it themselves but buy it from a manufacturer. It's likely the hiking goods industry is not the main destination as it was created for the sailing industry. Given the relatively high cost of Chinese 3F HL gear using a clone / off brand version of this material I'd guess that there's something intrinsically expensive about making it rather than it's just patented.
Thanks for the video. It´s quite good. I used the same two pieces of equipment last Summer on a hike across the Alps and concur on the many advantages. Since the ZP Duplex is a single-walled tent, I struggled a lot with condensation. With anything less than all doors open, there was some condensation. I imagine that this issue is less pronounced in areas where the humidity is generally lower. That would apply to most of the PCT. I´m curious if you or others have had the same challenge. BRs, Eric
Hey Darwin, I just watched this again after, wow, three years. So being that my wife and I are in our 60s now and our joints let us know, I just pulled the trigger on a Zpacks Free Duo. At our age comfort way out does price, and by dropping our old tents for the Duo we also drop 4 lbs. Huge, as you say. Take care.
i dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Hunter Harper instablaster ;)
@Ty Diego I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and im in the hacking process atm.
Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Ty Diego it worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account !
@Hunter Harper glad I could help =)
I think my favorite part was your encouragement to buy cottage vendor! I shop the cottage vendors, but I forget, and it just makes me feel great when I'm reminded that I'm supporting USA local and the backpacking/hammocking communities!
Thanks well done. Some of us getting older need this type of gear so we can keep going.
Hello Darwin, just getting to know you and your videos. At 63 I am a late comer to UL hiking. Just completed an 11 day trek of Peru's Cordillera Huayhuash using the Duplex and the Arc Blast. Two great pieces of gear, these and my EE Rev. Quilt came in at under 5 pounds. This all made for a pleasant trek. I carried 11 days of food with me and was still under 35 pounds at the start.
Hi Darwin! nice overview of cuben fabric. I think you got the pros and cons just right with three exceptions, but that relates more to shelters than packs or clothing. Both of these can be more of an annoyance than con, but I'm throwing them out anyway. Noise. In wind or rain, a cuben tent or tarp can be really noisy. I had a cuben tarp for use with my hammock, and although it only weighed 6 ounces, whenever it was subjected to wind, it would rattle like nobody's news. I was hearing it even with earplugs in. The second is heat. Although a lot of tents can get hot in the sun, cuben is even more so. Especially if it's a single wall like the Duplex is. Also, unless you get a dark colored fabric, it's quite opaque. So, you don't get that much privacy when changing clothes. The third thing is really more of an annoyance than anything, but once it gets wrinkled/crinkled, it stays that way. And looks like it. This is more apparent on a tarp than a tent, but if you look close once you deploy the tent, you'll see what I mean.
All in all, I say the pro's greatly outweigh the con's. Thanks again for the review! Cheers! DonP
lostagain Helpful additional points.
Good Point Don! I haven't been too annoyed with the wind YET. I def think the Pros outweigh the Cons! Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
The zpack camo pattern is darker and provides a bit more privacy. Only downside is it weighs a little more.
"Outweigh" haha! I see what you did there.
opaque means you can't see through something. I think a word like translucent would be a more correct way of explaining what you are talking about, or just say see through! It sucks when you you try to sound smart and get things back words... sorry to be a nit picking Nazi, but English is a shared common language and we should try to use it correctly.
You do a good job going over the pro's and con's of cuben fiber but when you make the compairson of your last pack and tent to the cuben fiber pack and tent you are not really compairing apples to apples. Lots of companies make ultralight gear with nylon. If you were to compair the Granite Gear Vigra 2 and the MSR Fly Lite shelter you will see that you can achieve a combo that comes in at just over 63 ounces. Yes you are still 20 or so ounces more that the cuben fiber but you just saved $500 that you can spend on your camera equipment or other items that can lighten your load. If money is no object then you are correct, cuben fiber will save you some ounces. The gripe I have is when you compare a sports car (Arc Blast) to a SUV (Atmos 65 AG). Also cuben fiber has a low abrasion and puncture resistance but good tentsile strength compaired to nylon material.
"low abrasion and puncture resistance" true. I don't know why this man talks about "crazy durability". Cuben is sandwiched in a layers of plastic which...is not wear resistant...If You have a nylon face layer - You have some...but depending on a denier of that fabric.
Love your posting. I get a lot out of your reviews and thoughts. Although i have never done a walk through on the AT i hiked most of it in sections in 70 s and 80s. I now have done a few 50 mile hikes with scouts and alone, what i noticed is how crowded the trail has become. In the 70's i could walk for two days and see less than 2 hikers. The gear has become so much better and lighter. Now that i am old (with a few joint replacments) i am very please with the newer equipment. I find your review honest and informative. Keep it up.
UL non cuben fiber companies that are cottage size;
ULA equipment very nice backpacks
Tarptent very nice tents
Small but bigger then cottage size:
Granite Gear very nice backpacks
( I use a tarptent notch ( 4 stakes min ) , Granite Gear Blaze, enlightened equioment quilt ) about 6 lbs for the big three 26oz, 44 oz, 22 oz = 5.75
Cuben Fiber is good, its very good. But you can come pretty close with alternatives
just some Food for thought
the main thing is to get out there.
Great Info Steve! Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
Granite Gear is awesome! I use Deuter packs, but some of my friends use Granite Gear and I'm sometimes kinda jealous of them. :P
@@adventure_hannah3841 Check Bergans Helium 55. Awesome pack from Europe
Long time cuben fiber denier here!
I just purchased my first Dyneema (formally cuben fiber) pack from Hyperlite Mountain Gear, and it was the best gear purchase decision I have made so far. If you're hesitant to go the Dyneema route because you're questioning it's durability (like I did), look into the black colored packs from Hyperlite Mountain Gear, as they're made to be a little more durable while still retaining the lightweight properties of Dyneema. I purchased the "Southwest 3400" in black, and could not be happier. Doing this allowed me to shave off SEVEN POUNDS of weight, and I feel it on every mountain climb. Cheers!
I really dig Hyperlite's Gear! Known a lot of hikers that have really put it through the ringer.... Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
Joric - anger management dude!
Um, that you're a shitty little troll.
I would love to Thru hike the AT or the PCT, but due to a J O B and family, it's not possible at least for another 8-14 years (retirement) . My issue is that I know that my life expectancy ( family genetics) probably I won't be around in that time. So I'm starting to plan/ buy gear to start section hiking the AT
soon. Thru hiking is a dream, but not a reality for me. So better start living now.
I try to section hike a full two-week trip with the weekends attached every year. This means I have to save up my vacation all year, but it's not that bad once you get used to it. Section hiking is awesome because you can plan an awesome adventure that isn't the same-old-same-old everybody else is doing. I've created my own crazy hikes that link the PCT to other trails and I've also done backpack trips where I didn't even really know where I was going. Just put stuff in my pack and went wherever I wanted to go for however many days. That is a joy no thru-hiker ever gets to experience.
I will be finishing the AT this year. I have been working at it in sections since 2011, so make a plan and stick to it. I have found it best for me to do it in around 2 week sections, and just pick up where i left off doing it Northbound in order. Dont get discouraged by injury or circumstance, I missed a year for injury, and one for the birth of my daughter.
If you REALLY want it, you will find a way to get it done.
@@dianesoini loved your comment contribution, your spirit is " the " right stuff" ! and it chimed with me because it brought back memories of completing my recovery from a cardiac incident, by whizzing down to Heath Row and jumping on a plane to Buenos Aires, overnight bussing it to San Juan in Western Argentina, then making my way up into the Andes around Cerro Mercedario and enjoying. my own randomly chosen trekking. At that time due to border tension between Chile and Argentina, maps of the region were not easily obtained, so I just wandered about the mountains making my own sketch maps of where I was and where I had been. I simply added compass bearings taken from salient points. along my way. Its safe enough provided you don't allow too much distance to build up between taking your fixes. A bonus Was The delight of each newly emerging feature of the landscape. Without having a map to blunt the surprises, I had a sense of original exploration. This after all is how the Himalaya and the Kharakoram were opened up by Younghusband and his Ilk in the nineteenth century My only regret was not making time to visit southern Patagonia and the Argentine Lake District. Health and age, ( I'm in my nineth decade now) regrettably put the greater ranges beyond physical capability, but the North Norfolk coastal path ( UK), my old Go- Lite Gust and a U L tent are insistantly calling telling me it's time to make tracks to what little remains of any wild land still accessible to me. With a sub10lbs base weight and easy re-supplys it will be a great little trip for me and my hound, My dog-child has never seen the sea, so for him it will be another great adventure for us to share. Good luck with your plans for your upcoming wilderness journies. Lucky you.There's enough for more than a hundred lifetimes to explore spread right across America. How I envy you, Stay safe, God bless and make sure you get out there and enjoy every minute you've got girl, kind regards, Baz.
@@barryfullick7981 That sounds like a bigger adventure than most people do. And what is the point of all this? Is it for the selfies, the youtube adulation or the big adventures to remember for a lifetime? You might enjoy the videos I made of my recent trek across the southern Los Padres National Forest to connect my local backcountry trails (i.e. "The Condor Trail") to the Pacific Crest Trail.
@@dianesoini Never taken a selfie ever, as for YT adulation, who needs it, who cares? Just had to respond to the spirit of your post. Its about the being " out there " close to nature, exploring a new landscape and above all, the memories, for me As for the bigger adventure than some etc, it was very modest when put alongside any of the epic trails you have in your epic sized back yard. Take care, be safe and get the most you can from your upcoming wanderings, Good luck n God bless.
Just to be clear: If cuben fiber has sewn spots then you must tap the seams to keep it from leaking... All the zpacks tents and backpacks have taped seams to keep water out...
Correct, but no seam sealing... which is the point I was making. Plus the fabric itself is waterproof, so no need for DWR coating. Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
@@DarwinOnthetrail So if you have to tape the seams, isn't that 'seam sealing?'
Awesome video and awesome pros and cons noted in the comments - thanks to the community!
Cuben Fibre is something I've thought about and now I have a lot more information to weigh up before deciding whether or not to use it.
Many thanks all!
Wow! 4.4 pounds lighter is incredible! Great video man! Every time I had a question watching the video, you answered it. Lightweight, Durable, & waterproof = a win!
I have owned and use two cuben fiber tarps for several years. Super light weight. Cuben Fiber will leak at any sewn seams so depending on where they are you many need to seal those. It is noisy compared to silnylon. Does bother some but not me. While it is strong is easy to puncture but easy to fix with some southern chrome (duct tape). I have made many stuff sacks with cuben and it is easy to do. A couple of other companies that have been in business making cuben gear are Hammock Gear ( tarps ) and Yama Mt Gear ( tarps, tents, stuff sacks and DIY kits )
Hi Darwin. I have the Zpacks Arc Haul and Duplex and couldn't be happier. Being a single wall I no longer have to worry about rushing to get the rain fly on before my tent gets soaked when it is raining. The double entry makes it great for two people and having two vestibules is just plain convenient. Properly staked out, I haven't really noticed problems with it being too noisy in the wind.
Great video on the pros and cons of Cuben Fibre, just sourced the HMG flat tarp and the Northwest 3400 pack, looking forward to using them up on Skye and the Lake District this side of the pond.
Great video and always great to hear from someone that has put a pack on their back everyday for six months. I am a sailor as well and cuben has been a standard to the point no one talks about it anymore when it comes to sails. I hope that we get to see innovation in gear and materials always and there are more and more people willing to experiment and produce products. The whole cottage thing I personally think is misdirected though and keeps people from embracing new gear as those who profess the supporting of small companies seems like a badge of honor. I have been around long enough that people like Gregory, Noall, Hilleberg etc. were all cottage at some point and should still be supported and encouraged. Where I put my line in the sand is the cheap knock offs that plague the environment. Someday the Zpacks backpacks will be made by some offshore company by cheap labor, not innovating or designing themselves. So I will pay more for the originals even if it is 6 times more expensive. Can't wait for your PCT trip.
Another great video. my wife has had the Zpacks Arc Haul for over a year now and she LOVES it. We are hammock campers and are considering cubem fiber tarps from hammock gear but have not pulled the trigger.
Sweet! The Arc Haul is a nice pack for sure. Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
Love it!! I have the same Zpacks Arc Blast & Duplex tent. Took them both on the JMT and was very happy. I don't suggest going over 35lbs though. I pushed the weight limit & did do some damage to my pack but they performed all the repairs at no charge. Great vid!
This video is getting me so jazzed for my new Zpacks duplex and arc blast to get here! Tracking shows Monday. Can't wait! Thanks for all the helpful advice. Keep the awesome videos coming!
Dude, your videos are solid. Way to plug the homegrown businesses. Been on the fence about Arc Blast for my Sept. JMT hike. You just sold me.
hay Darwin... I just purchased a starter Bigfoot air mattress from Amazon... 15oz and $30.00 dollars... I have yet to test it on the trail, but it passed the weight in test... It has all the outward appearances of your frugal replacement for the Therma-rest neo air at 150.00 + -- ( $oon)?? Alpine Summit trekking poles just arrived with all the some basic idea$ as your Black Diamond$, but at $37.00... Yours were $63.13 and jumped to $106, I jumped on the Alpine Summit poles, so I am ready to stroll...
I was around in the 60's when there was a revolution in the gear of the day. Ivon was making new generations of hardware in his garage... Sierra Design and North Face were new start ups... Now we have Zpacks and a better chance to run through the jungle ( no! that's for you kids?)... Please let them know frugal is never cheap... For me it's down to a nice Sierra stroll... visiting all those vista's of my youth...
So let's all just..."Keep on Truckin"...
I have been a fan of Cuben for some time, and have a goodly number of Cuben packs, tarps, bags etc., especially Locus Gear and HMG. it really is a miracle fabric. Two further advantages: 1. It is pleasant to touch, so direct contact with the body is not a problem (e.g. under a tarp on a hot night), or sleeping on a Cuben ground sheet (for which a heavier weight is better, e.g. 1.0, though .51 will work if you look after it), or floor of a mesh inner. 2. Black Cuben (it is more of a grey) is far better for privacy than the standard white, and offers some advantages of not allowing quite as much heat thru. It also looks great, almost like a tweed, definitely an appealing aesthetic. (Check out Locus Gear Khufu in black Cuben with red zip). And the fabric really is as waterproof as described, I have often had my Khufu in sustained monsoon downpours, and it has never leaked.
One tip I have that I did is To start by buying a cheap Cuban pouch like a first aid pouch. That way you can see just how light and strong it is, I Tugged at mine and scraped it on the floor, threw it at the wall, just to see if I could break it. I Couldn't and sobthen I began buying more, a reversable Cuban pillow / clothes sack. A tarp for day camps. I love the stuff.
I own a Hammock Gear Cuben fiber tarp. 11 or 12 foot long. Weighing in at 7 oz with all my lines on it. Love , love, love it.
I love the fact that you support the small companies in the hiking community. That’s the best way to keep the gear and innovation that we love. Thanks for your great vids!!!
I’m a bike packer, but love the site regarding equipment and camping that crosses over.
I've seen videos and heard of a lot of people cooking inside their tents after a hard day on the trail. From what I can tell, Cuben fiber is extremely sensitive to flame. sparks burn holes in it, and when the fiber is close to flame, it shrivels up quickly. That means, it is pretty important that you keep cuben fiber away from any flame. Even a tossed burning cigarette will melt holes in it... You might want to mention that as a concern...
My cuben fiber hammock tarp with doors is over 5 years old with no problems. It came from hammock gear. The big difference in them and z packs is they don't stitch the ridgeline. so yes, no need to seam seal and never leaks. Easy to patch. just clean area and put a strip of cuben tape on inside and outside like a bandaid and it will be stronger than new. ( I put a hole in mine on a windy day with a stake. was simple to fix.) Big advantage to me is weight after rain. A wet tarp is very heavy. I just wipe my cuben with a small shamwow and there is no water to carry. A little more bulky and the price are the only disadvantages to me. I never hear noise with mine.
Great review, Darwin! Just finished my LNT trainer course in the Shenandoah National Park with the PATC guys, and one of our trainers had a Zpacks Nero. Don't know I could ever go that minimal...but sure was sweet compared to all our gear. Met the Zpack guys this year (Joe & Red Beard) at Damascus Trail Days, and they are really passionate about all their creations...so you are spot on about deserving our support. Wish I could give up my Copper Spur HV UL tent....but it's just too perfect for me! My emergency kit always has to be a higher weight since I'm NOLS WFR...so it's like you and your camera gear trying to shave ounces somewhere else. Thanks for all the great posts.
Nice rundown on CF. I sport a HMG backpack & tent and love them both! Crazy expensive, crazy light. Sometimes it pays to be the old hiker with a well established career (and income) instead of the young-uns with cat food stoves! LOL. Hike on!!!
Thanks to you and many hikers like you providing great information on lighter, better gear. I have transitioned my complete hiking gear to the light weight cottage companies gear. UGQ, Zpacks, HG, LiteAF, gossamer gear, litesmith, Dutchware Gear and so many more. By using them I am able to enjoy the outdoors more and help other hikers by keeping their doors open for future generations of hikers to enjoy their products. Thanks again for the great information and your support.
I have a Teton 4000explorer. It's a heavy pack weighing in at approximately 5.5 lbs. I like it though. Nothing has failed on it and I've had it for 8-9 months. ✌️
You make mention of durable. Just to expand on that and put that in perspective, I had frozen sleet that melted and the ice pieces fell off and punctured multiple holes in my Cuben tarp. I could not repair the tarp at the time due to fog as the repair tape would not stick. It was condensing on the fabric as fast as I could wipe it off. If you go Cuben, keep your side walls as steep as you can during situations of hail or sleet falling. With some luck, depending on the size of the hail, you should be ok.
Great breakdown as usual! It's so easy to forget about all the weight just your backpack adds!
Hey Darwin, I'm gonna give my 2 cents about this subject...As always though, you do an amazing job covering important topics about the outdoors bro!!
1. More of a question...the atmos is 54oz and the ul2 is 42oz, so I do question the numbers there because that's almost 20 excess ounces I'm missing, help me out please(might be missing something)
2. I'm not saying that you have a deal with them, but for many people that hike and promote by vloggging and so-forth, zpacks and hyperlite do sell uber cheap and even give away their merch to many of them. So, for many other people, the prices are definitely super high as you've mentioned.
You did a great job covering even the little things about CF, such as the different thicknesses, and I hope you got the license plate off that squirrel...he'll get what's coming to him!! Keep em coming bro!!
I want to add there is a big company that has been doing it for a long long time . TERRA NOVA LASER ULTRA 1 IS my tent on my scale with there stakes and poles and stuff bag 18 oz they have the world's record for lightest double wall tent in the world
More cons are; almost see through, noisy during a storm, the material stays wrinkled, and gets hot/cold. If weight is a goal.then the material is awesome. I would never use as shelter. Other gear, oh yeah! Thank You. Enjoy Life!!!
Apparently, cuben fiber is very cheap in China, but the patent or trademark protection, enables it to be very costly in America.
Thanks for giving me a reason to not get cuben fiber, but super light weight is valuable. And it is considered to be durable. Noise or weight? Hmmm rip stop nylon seems the solution. Thanks
If that is true I'm surprised that no Chinese company is selling the packs through something like Alibaba.
I've heard cuban fiber is difficult to field repair but don't have personal experience. Could be important as it's easy to puncture. Darwin does show a tape patch on a food bag so maybe others can add their experience with repairs.
I switched to a cuben fiber pack and tent and dropped 5lbs off my base weight. The one thing that I never hear anyone talk about, but I noticed it right away, is that my Duplex doesn't have that silicone smell like all silnylon tents do.
Agreed entirely. The lower weight I have with my Zpacks Duo and Arc Blast and jacket makes it easier to carry either pleasures or more water or food. As I get older I find having overall lighter super high reliability gear is essential both for safety and for comfort. I now carry a Garmin Inreach + when I hike alone but that weight is not a problem. I have many kilimeters on my Zpacks for example and only now am thinking of buying the new Solstice jacket as my original is five years old and beginning to wet through these days. Thanks for the videos but please do give things in grams as well for those of us outside America. Dara Ottawa Canada
My biggest gripe with cuben fiber is crinkle and transparency of the fabric. i find it to be useless for tarps when hammock camping in hot climates because it does not offer much shade from the sun. The noise it makes when things rub on it or its flexed will drive you mad.
Just wait till you get out in the desert with a cuben fiber tent and all that light streams into your tent first thing in the morning turning it into an oven. I just hope you have good ventilation. Its bad enough with an opaque tent but its 100 times worse with one that is semi transparent. Also note that water proof also means humidity proof. Prepare for some massive condensation.
anyways this is m opinion and is based on my experiences with gear that uses the fabric
Trinity Bays yup. and the cost
That's why I have the camo version of my duplex tent...Can't see thru it as well..
Trinity Bays wondering if you have problems with condensation in the ZPacks Duplex tent I've been drooling over?
Seems like it's well ventilated with all the mesh and double entry.
i bought one off another hiker who didn't like it and i didn't like it ether and sold it to the next person who showed interest in it.
I haven't had problems with massive condensation in my Zpacks Duplex tent. Condensation is a concern for all single wall tents. I do carry a small, light microfiber towel just in case but usually I've got at least one vestibule door open and I don't experience any issues.
Excellent video on cuban fiber. I love my Hyperlite Southwest pack and echo 2 shelter. Worked well on my PCT hike and so far on my CDT hike.
If you want a cheap ultralight camping setup, then hummingbirdhammocks have hammock + tarp + mosqito net, which only weighs 616grams/1,36pounds combined, and the price for all 3 items is only $240. Plenty cheaper and more lightweight than even the Zpacks Plexamid 1 person tents - which is only 420gram; but needs a trekking pole to set it up, which adds maybe 350g extra weight (for a carbon trekking pole). And you also need a sleeping pad for tents, which adds a substantial amount of weight and takes up a lot of room. When i checked for some lightweight trekking pole and (inflatable) sleeping pad for the tent, i ended up at 1,1kg (tent + sleeping pad + trekking pole), which is almost double the weight of the MUCH cheaper hammock setup...
As always another great video!!! The content that you put out is phenomenal!!! I just got back from doing some camping up in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons and let me tell you it was amazing!! I hope to one day be able to hike the AT and the PCT!!
Thank you for the kind words Carrie! I love the Tetons & Yellowstone. Snuggles & I spent some time up there in 2015. Actually the 1st gear review video I did was from a campground in Grand Teton. Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
Thanks Darwin for your honest assessment of the light weight gear.
This stuff sounds pretty cool, never heard of it until this video. Reading the comments I think I would agree that the noise would be annoying, as I would use this as a tarp over a hammock, but for the same reason the transparency wouldn't be much of a problem as I'm basically outside all the time anyway. The heat things doesn't sound great either. What I would be interested in though, is to see if anyone is making bike pannier bags out of this, I think that would be great. The transparency and heat wouldn't be much of an issue, except keeping meat fresh maybe, and the noise wouldn't be an issue as an item that doesn't really blow in the wind like a tent or tarp does.
Great stuff, just don't use it like a haul bag. I Lowered my "Hyperlite ice pack" down over a granite cliff prior to a rappel, and got a few small dime sized holes where the bag rubbed on the granite on the way down. The lower was only about 50', I was very surprised when I rapped off and got down, only to find my bag with wear (slide) holes in it. Could have been worse i suppose, going to approach Hyperlite soon before Ice climbing season to see if they can repair. I do like the idea of the pack being crazy light, and waterproof on its own without a dry-bag liner, I am now mostly climbing ice and multi-week expeditions at higher altitudes so weight definitely counts. Don't get me wrong, love this stuff, it is revolutionizing the outdoor expedition industry, and i will continue to buy dyneema fabrics to shed weight. Happy climbing....Blue skies to all!!
One of the biggest advantages is that Cuben Fiber is that it doesn't sag when wet. I purchased the Zpacks Duplex tent just for that reason. I spent a very rainy night in a silnylon tent which sagged onto our bags and caused them to become wet. I spent a similar night is a Cuben Fiber tent, while noisier, it didn't sag in the slightest.
Alternative: SilPoly
My parents are from Esmeralda in Cuba, and for generations we've known that Cuban fiber is the best...
Cuben fiber has only been around since the 90's and was invented here in the good ol U.S.A. I'm sorry for my rudeness, but comments like this just aggravate me. Google cuben fiber, you may learn something more useful than peoples nonsensical comments trying to act as though they know something.
Chris Cheetham twas clearly a joke. You must have lost your sense of humor on the trail.
No...definitely not.
Lol. That’s “Cuben” fiber, not “Cuban” fiber. It has nothing to do with Cuba. It was developed and patented in the United States. It hasn’t been around for “generations” either. Honestly Angel, your comment is just nonsense....
I think you have to add in weight of your trekking poles because they're needed for the Zpacks tent and not needed for the heavier setup. Some will say they will carry the poles anyway but its worth mentioning for the beginners or those who don't like trekking poles. Love the videos, Happy Trails.
I love the way you make videos, they are always so thorough, and to the point. Never clickbait, I always seems to find the information I wanted to know, from your videos. Thanks for talking about Cuben fiber, I was interested in knowing more about it.
Zpacks rocks. I have the duplex with the poles option and even with everything weights around 2 pounds including poles, tent stakes MSR ground hogs and footprint made of polyethylene, the got the Arc Haul with extras at about over a pound; can not beat the weight. I do need to save on weight because I like carrying stuff for comfort I am not ready to part with and also I carry my own overweight already being 55 pounds over the weight I need for my height and age. Yes it is expensive but it does helps; my visit to Mount Whitney last year I was about 27 pounds total with food and water at the trailhead and let me tell you I felt it climbing up but I also took comfort seeing other folks carrying 50 and 60 pounds loads. I did not made the summit but was very comfortable when I camped at Outpost, slept well and returned next day to trailhead; another piece I took with me is EE Revelation 20 quilt, which at 24 oz makes a huge difference. Temperature was around freezing but I had a smile in my face. If you can afford it, go for it, you will never regret it after using it for the first time!
I recently placed an order with Zpacks. I've been using a Gregory Baltoro 75L pack, and with tent and sleeping bag the combined weight is a whopping 9.7 pounds. The Zpacks 57L pack, duplex tent, and quilt come in at only 3.8# (not including about another 6-8 ounces for tent stakes). That's a massive difference. Now I just gotta wait for 6-8 weeks.
huge fan of the content, thank you so much for mentioning the durability.
If you buy a Kelty Trekker 3950...and packed it with light and ultralight gear...you would have a light gear kit and a backpack you could use for many Thru hikers.
Havent seen this in the comments yet so Ill mention it, seam sealing is to cover the holes made by sewing. Cuben fiber gear is still seam taped which is seam sealing.
Speaking of cottage industries and lightweight materials, it’s worth mentioning companies such as Superior Wilderness Designs who are using X-Pac material. It’s a little less expensive than cuben fiber but still very lightweight and extremely tough.
Do hikers propose with a titanium ring since it's lighter than gold =)
grams make ounces, ounces make pounds, pounds make pain man. You can't afford adding a tenth of an ounce for a mere ring.
Silicone rings! Much lighter!
just get a ring tatooed on
Had me laughing at this!
@@julianne2saw I could never make that much of a commitment to have a tattooed ring. The tattoo, not the relationship, I mean.
One of the things I've noticed is everyone talks about weight and how light they can get their packs, but I see very few people talking about how to properly pack a backpack. Weight is important, but so is how you set up your pack. You can have a heavy pack that is comfortable to wear if it is packed properly. I'm not saying for people to start carrying around 40lb packs, but I think people need to start putting as much thought and planning into how they organize their packs as they do about the weight that goes in them.
Great video Darwin! I thought you did an excellent job going over the pros and cons of cuben fiber gear. Clearly cuben isn't for everyone, nor can everyone afford it. And that's fine, it isn't a must have to enjoy the outdoors. I think people are getting a little carried away with some of these comments, but hey, I guess that's social media for ya. Anyways, good video and great job on your presentation! Top notch quality videos! Stay safe during your travels.
Have had a HMG pack for years and have used it for a few trips. Great pack and the only con is the cost. But imo, well worth it. Also have had a gauntlet of packs from frame, to internal frame, to no frame, and my HMG is by far my favorite. Going to get their day pack next I think along with their ultimid tent with insert. I have a golite Shangri la 5, in sil nylon, and its heavy, wets out, and takes long to dry. All the companies you mentioned make exceptional gear, can't go wrong with it. Just be prepared for the cost. But I will take HMG over them all. Just like their stuff better.
FYI: Mountain Laurel Designs and Six Moon Designs were selling DCF products years *before* HMG and Zpacks even existed.
I personally think that DCF being *water resistant* should be the #1 reason in the "Reason to use it" category.
Also, stating that DCF is "lighter/less" weight than other fabrics, specifically in the backpack sector, is simply not the case. It *use* to be when companies were using non-hybrid (CF+Nylon) CF, but almost nobody does that anymore - Zpacks stopped offering that last year, HMG stopped years ago. If you compare a DCF backpack with a Dx backpack, you can see that they weight savings, if any at all, are extremely minimal. Just look at the MLD Burn in Dx vs the MLD Burn in DCF as a prime example of this fact. In reality, the only reason for going with the DCF is a marginally better waterproofness. But that then leads to the question/issue of... is the price of a DCF backpack, just to gain that additional waterproofness, really justifiable, when a trash compactor bag is going to be about $1.00 and weigh only about a ounce, or less if you cut it down to size for your sleeping bag/quilt + puffy.
When it comes to shelters, obviously the above "lighter/less weight" factor is not a factor. Shelters is where DCF has domination. That said, there are numerous fabrics now hitting the market that are *very* close to giving DCF a run for its performance. Reference the new The One from Gossamer Gear as a good example.
Also, I have a published interview with the company that now owns the DCF patents, DSM Dyneema, over on my website, for those of you that are into the business/tech end of things. hikelighter.com/2015/06/20/cubic-tech-corp-buyout/ it also includes some quotes/interview style, from most of the companies that make DCF products.
Lastly, the Zpacks bear bag now uses (and has for a couple of years) a heavier weight DCF, at 1.43 oz/sqyd. Way tougher fabric.
I like what you're saying here. I can dig it. The mark cuban fibers seem hip man. I think I want my next hike to be a 1970's hike. You know free love man, dig? Like cut off jeans, a canteen, and maybe a Svea Optimus diesel stove. A sweet Camp Trails exterior frame backpack and a nice Black Ice sleeping bag with 320 down fill. Bandana, Foster Grants, a tank top with a psychedelic peace sign on it. Hell yea.
But I really like the Mark Cuban lite stuff. If they could just make it not so crinkly and loud to sleep and hike next to that would be cool.
As a long time user of the SVEA 123...It burns "white Gas"...Love it with the SIGG cook Kit. I have used this kit for 45 years. I don't bring the smaller pot to shave off a few ounces. EVERY Hiker needs a bandana lol. Back in the day...Thru hikers carried Kelty Tioga packs or Jansport. I had a Kelty modified D-4 that I added a front pocket to and strap points on the flap. I'm old school, so very interested in this ultra light gear
Still have my Svea 123 - was given to me by my college girlfriend's father. The thing's been running at least once a season without so much as a tinkerin for literally around 60 years. And really, it's not *that* heavy.
First off, good video and thanks. Now I know you gave the analogy of the difference between a 15 pound and a 80 pound pack, but even if everything I own was cuben fiber, I'm not getting anywhere near that kind of weight reduction. I still can't justify the cost for weight savings. Now if I had unlimited funds.... :)
CF all the way, at my age pushing 60 and knees that have a few miles on them, its an easy selection. I know its costly but a light pack makes for a much more enjoyable adventure. i would much rather give my money to a local company. Great video, thanks
It needs to be remembered that packs and other gear are designed and constructed for very different activities and uses. I have packs that have lasted over 30 years and that was part of the design criteria, whereas activities like thru-hiking have different design criteria majorly based on the successful and most comfortable completion of hiking that trail. In my mind I equate it with the difference I see when comparing hiking boots with trail running sneakers. The boots have, among their other design criteria, been built to last through some really tough conditions, whereas trail runners have been adopted by thru-hikers specifically for the level of comfort they provide over the mega-mileage of thru-hikes and were not built to last like the boots. Happy feet is, for thru-hikers, a paramount concern and it is therefore considered to be worth it to have to replace the trail-runners every 500 miles or so. Successful completion of the hike might require as many as 4 pair and cost altogether as much as $500 for a single trail hike. Not all hikes and not all other human activities will put value on the same design criteria - that’s obvious. I have great packs just for DSLR camera gear, a pack for the camcorder, a pack for hunting, a pack for day hikes, a pack for weekend or short section hikes. Sometimes the uses for gear designed for different activities can bleed into another use, like the hunting pack which is also great for foraging and mushroom hunting, but keep in mind that the higher the level of specialization which the design criteria provide for, the narrower the scope of the potential use. Right now ultralight gear is the biggest buzzword in thru-hiking - and that is a very narrow use. As compared, for instance with gear for expedition treks, ultra-gear gear depends on the periodic availability of towns and stores and restaurants and hotels. You wear out a pair of trail runners, you buy a new pair at the store in the next town you stop at, or you have them mailed to to you at an upcoming hostel or post office. Bear bags make better bear bags than stuff sacks do. Different activities provide different obstacles and opportunities - it is therefore key to always be sensitive to what they are when you are planning your gear. Don’t let the latest trend or buzzword blind you to that - recognize the differences. Always know, as much as possible, what design criteria must be met by your gear for the upcoming activities - a good general rule for designing your life.
UHMWPE is amazing material, it should be used to make ultralight and protective equipment. Bulletproof/slash vests are made of it
A word of advice for repairing holes in bags. Put the tape on the inside of the bag, I have made many good permanent repairs to river running bags this way.
Good video. One thing that i don’t think you mentioned is that fact that the elongation is close to zero with the composite materials.It is a well known problem with primarily silicone coated nylon fabrics for tents that it will elongate when wet. The nylon fibre can pick up some moisture and then it is also the fact that common fabric is produced in a completely different way. While the fingers composite materials are simply laid out (0, 90 (45) degrees), the yarn in common fabric has to pass over and under and over.. all the time in the weaving process. This makes it sensitive to both shrinkage and elongation. When you use a super low elongation / high tensile strength fiber in the composite material, that’s optimal since it does not have to pass over and under .. understandable? ... :) also, common “silnylons” vary a lot in quality! But since they are coated and not laminated as the composite materials are, they can never be as waterproof or durable. Personally I think it is just a matter of time before the traditional fabric industry will die out and new production processes will rise.
I've seen several instances online of Cuben fiber gear repaired with tape due to tears. One person noting he keeps a foot of Cuben fiber tape with him to make repairs with. That said, they say Cuben fiber tape will not come off once applied. I'm just not sure it's as durable silnylon or traditional materials, albeit definitely lighter.
I love cuben/Dyneema. I have a small asym tarp, and a Z-packs bag so bar, next backpack will be cuben/Dyneema. I have no objections to the crumpled look it takes on but then I love linen and hemp too....I enjoy the translucency of it.
For what its worth, saving weight on the big three is costly but have the biggest weight saving pay offs. 4.4 pounds is huge, Darwin! Also, you have to buy for what your going to use it for. If your not doing a through hike, then you may not need a 60L pack; or if your going solo perhaps you don't need a big tent. Thanks for the video!
I got some granite gear stuffsacks to drop weight and saved a pound over my old Sea-summit Evacs. Totally worth it and haven't failed yet. Will probably get a zpacks bearbag and a pack cover to save another half a pound. I am also looking at a stuffable daypack that could be used for sidehikes basically, you can get a 30L stuffable bag to use within your main pack for the same weight as a Sil stuffsack.
Awesome stuff and totally worth it. Not springing for a tent, as I have a perfectly good North Face Mica FL 2 and a new REI quarterdome, but the smaller items are too worth it not to buy. I didn't think it would be worth it to spend 100 bucks to save a pound at first, but then I went on a couple of longer hikes and it is totally worth it. The biggest place I could cut are probably tent and sleeping bag, but I would rather carry a tent than sleep in dodgy shelters with randos. I can handle carrying 3 lbs not to deal with shelters.
Thanks for info that .51oz Dyneema DCF is fine, maybe a little higher, but if you get to 1.0oz Dyneerma DCF its bulky and hard to fold so you might as well switch to Sil-Nylon.
I have a zpacks rain jacket and 2 person tent. I highly recommend both. pricey but worth it. the xl jacket does fold small enough to fit in a jeans pocket but also stays wrinkled in perpetuity.
I only just started looking at ultralight cuben fiber tents from ZPacks and was wondering whether I should go for it or not.
I just loved this video and I so much am in the same situation.
I don't believe in ultra-light just for the sake of it, I like my comfort and I don't walk just for the sake of adding miles.
Recently I completed the West Highland Way with my brand new gear I very carefully selected and gave me great satisfaction.
But,
I purposedly left all my photographer gear behind because I wanted to see how I do with all that stuff.
Knowing I would add an extra 1.3Kg for my next trek, I decided to loose weight for the backpack itself and perhaps a new tent.
I saw Zpacks Duplex tent which design I love: obviously designed by hikers for hikers. But still I was wondering about the durability and this video just gave me the answer.
I'm gonna start saving so I can go and buy a ZPacks Duplex tent.
Thank you
You know for some things tyvek would make better sense.
It is cheap and you can make them yourself.
A tyvek bag for your tent stakes would be nothing to make and given its use would last forever..
Darwin, really enjoy learning from you. Appreciate your time on the trail. Think about a four thirds camera outfit. Super light compared to DSLR stuff. Lenses are tiny too. Video quality is great.
Ive been considering getting some cuben fiber gear. It seems like awesome stuff. Thanks for the video. I think it pushed me off of the fence. I will definitely try some.
cool to view a video on the day you post. Hey Darwin! Looks like your subscriptions are up! That's great. Watched many of your videos and like your delivery and content. Thanks for keeping it current.
I have the ZPacks Arc Haul which I like. My Duplex developed some small hole where the guy out lines attach to the walls. ZPacks repaired it for free. I think it's possible I was pitching too tight. Otherwise it's been a good shelter.
Love the white color of my Southwest!
At 62 weight is very very important to me. Cuban fiber is simply out of my price range for the gear I use, Maybe one day but not today . So with that said as a thru hiker and photographer it is a battle. Obviously I am not the fastest guy on the trail a few less miles than some at a slower pace than most and a desire to get the job done. But mark my words weight is so very important
Id LOVE to have a Zpacks duplex, but i just cant afford it. im sure thats the case for many people out there.
facebook.com/groups/151885765509739/permalink/305160780182236/
ruclips.net/video/kQwLubozsTU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/XqbZs790u_k/видео.html
You get what you pay for.
Search Aliexpress for '3F UL Lanshan' tents. Not as good, but a fraction of the price.
after the z packs hexamed failure I doubled down and bought the zpacks duplex. it's much better for my 6'2" frame. has much better design than hexomed with 2 doors I expect less condensation. actual weight was 25.5 with 6 stakes, the hexamed was 23.4 with 10 stakes. whole lot more tent for 2 oz. I have not had any good rains to test the duplex yet. (see below for hexomed failure )
Great info. Appreciate the indepth research.
No prob Phillip, Thanks for Watching!
Hike On,
Darwin
After the first section of the sierras of my PCT hike this year the bottom of my arc blast was getting ripped up really bad, I could stick a finger through it! So when glissading take your pack off and have it in your lap.
Flow, it is Cuben (registered trademark brand) of dynemma fabric. Same way that there is Scotch brand of cellophane tape. Kleenex brand of tissue. If you're really lucky you may be able to get large scraps or worn out sails, from a sailmaker's loft, reasonably cheap.
FLOW, autocorrect made that "Flow".
Twice now. FWIW.
It's interesting watching this video again after a couple of months. I finally ordered a few yards of Dyneema from Ripstopbytheroll, but I think after making some gear if I can get the cash together I'll definitely get a Zpacks Duplex tent. It's like my best tarp/tent wish list made by people who know a lot more than I do. A dyneema back pack.... I think I'll hold off a bit. I'd like a backpack that might be 60L, on my back, but I want it to be 120L when I'm loading it. There's a wedged shaped backpack, not Cuben, that looks easier to load and rummage around in, and which will bulge out for all the extra bulky warm stuff for winter hiking (And my JetBoil skillet instead of being a packing headache will just be a weird bulge someplace.) I also want a bigger mesh pocket on the back to air out and dry out gear, and I'd like a better frame so I can carry more weight (that I know I shouldn't be carrying ...)
I think Darwin makes a good point, support these small companies--they are the people advancing the gear we use in the best ways. I currently use an Osprey and it's good, but without these small companies, it would be at least another 20 years before they even considered making brilliantly simple lightweight gear like Hyperlite and Zpacks. And to help, I'll try to buy the tent soon, because I know, like the one time in two years I washed my car in Los Angeles in June-- it rained that week; so as soon as I buy my $600 tent, another dyneema mill will open up and prices will drop. If I'm up in the Sierras when that happens, I won't mind. Thanks Darwin.
No doubt this is the best gear on the market. For me that price, I can't justify. Even with a thru hike coming up... You can still lighten your load significantly without breaking the bank. There are alternatives. Six moons designs make some great affordable lightweight gear.
Best argument for getting pack weight down. I love it. Even if you are a hunter you can carry more hunting gear.
Yes thank you so much. I love your videos.
Biggest con for me was how poorly cuben fiber stands up to hail. I was in a hail storm at the Rice Field shelter on the AT in 2016, and my Duplex was destroyed. I sent it back to Zpacks to see if they would be able to repair it, but it was completely destroyed. They were kind enough to honor their 1 year warranty, and they replaced it for me.
I know that Red Beard also had that happen to him on one of his hikes out west.
Interesting..What size hail was it? Did it puncture the CF or how was it destroyed?
I notice a trend to promote the ease of hiking lighter with high tech gear yet the real goal is to carry more of the stuff you love/need (for the same weight). I'm ok with either, just be clear.
Thanks! This covers a question I asked on one of your Q&A videos.
No prob! That's why I made it!
Hike On,
Darwin
I agree... about 5lbs is a huge amount of weight, and it’s in the top 3. Amazing. I wonder if I can get it in a hammock.
This cuban fiber looks a lot like the Tyvek house wrap I bought a roll of at Home Depot. Same light weight, super strong, and makes that same crunchy sound. I'm going to try and make a pack cover using this product. The Tyvek (a Dupont product) seems like it might be thicker.
Dude thanks for all the vids you are doing they have helped alot .. i have hiked all over NH VT Maine i am going to do the PCT 2018 so these vids are helping me out in research Thanks NH Angry Hiker
the Osprey backpack, with 26 lbs of weight was more comfortable than the z packs with 20...
Sounds like user error.
I see both sides, but I agree...
I think the biggest benefit of the Cuban fiber might be the fact that if you are looking for a pack that weighs under 2 lbs, you are likely to fill it with other quality items that also weigh nothing... If you're a badass like Darwin, doing long, long miles, I totally see the benefit... But I've really enjoyed the smaller Atmos 50, it weighs in at just under 4 lbs, but the anti gravity system is so comfortable and breathable, I'll make up the difference with what goes inside... That comfort is worth the weight for me. Plus osprey still replaces/repairs anything from any era for any reason, if they can't repair it for free... All our stuff is subject to squirrels as Darwin mentions here.
Chris Jones If you put too much weight in these bags, and I think they’re designed for 15 including food and water, then they probably do feel worse cause they don’t have the supportive straps and frames.
A lightweight pack has to be the last thing you purchase. Otherwise it’s detrimental. That’s another reason why the average person such as myself can’t afford them. I can’t just buy one or two things, every single thing you carry has to be ultra lightweight.
I'm totally on board with the lighter tent options. However, I can't imagine any packs being more comfortable than my Osprey. My only beef with their packs are they put too many pockets on them.
A lot of this doesn't sound right, although I could easily wrong. I understand while this stuff has high tensile strength it is relatively weak in terms of puncture strength (which would make sense as it was developed as a sail material). I'm almost certain that ZPacks, HMG and the rest do not make it themselves but buy it from a manufacturer. It's likely the hiking goods industry is not the main destination as it was created for the sailing industry. Given the relatively high cost of Chinese 3F HL gear using a clone / off brand version of this material I'd guess that there's something intrinsically expensive about making it rather than it's just patented.
Thanks for the video. It´s quite good. I used the same two pieces of equipment last Summer on a hike across the Alps and concur on the many advantages. Since the ZP Duplex is a single-walled tent, I struggled a lot with condensation. With anything less than all doors open, there was some condensation. I imagine that this issue is less pronounced in areas where the humidity is generally lower. That would apply to most of the PCT. I´m curious if you or others have had the same challenge. BRs, Eric