I own the Zoom R24. I've had it since 2012 and I use it to record all of my albums with it. The editing functions are simple and never had an issue with it. I still use it to this day and sacrificing some tracks for a touch screen on the R20 would seem cumbersome. The R20 may be new, but nothing beats the authenticity and portability of the R24.
Thanks for watching! It's (as anything is) really a matter of personal preferences. For me, the R20 sounded ever so slightly more "clear" (as can be heard in the video). Otherwise, I totally agree to you, a mechanical interface is always preferable to a touch screen.
100 percent they went backwards on this only 2 combo audio jacks not battey operated, no built in conducer mics I would not get one if it was going to me my AIF
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own?
This was incredibly helpful. With the massive price drop on the R20, it has become an interesting option - but I'm not sure it has the feature set I'm after. With both of these, I like the idea of a DAWless recording setup. I now have a good comparison rather than simply reading the marketing text. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! I guess the number of people who sidegraded from the R24 to R20 and that also were willing to upload the process to RUclips is relatively small. ;)
I wish someone would make an R8 with 8 inputs and 8 outputs. It would be a great machine for demos and for production where you want to mix with a separate console but giving you a lot of options for how you want to track and mix. Would also make a great audio interface.
Adding a splitter snake does not give me access to each channel separately, say a whole drum kit miked with 6to 8 mics…That would just be a summed mix, or just two channels to individually dump one or two at time into DAW or an old Real to reel a track that I have. Eight ins/8 outputs would allow Way more flexibility/ speed for remote recording. As well as being able to dump each track into its own track without worrying about time alignment issues. I know, “audio people” make things way more complicated than we need to. Just been doing this now for, 30 years and have amassed to much equipment…
@@revnichols1 you can split each into two mono to double your ouputs but yes you wouldnt be able to use it like that with this method but could still be used in a different situation calm it pal no need to flex
Really nice comparison. Your little experiment confirmed what I thought I was hearing - that the R20 sounds a little bit better than the old R-series, especially in the clarity and brightness of the mids and treble. Here's hoping Zoom keeps the firmware updates coming. +1 sub!
Would've been nice if the examples were actually level matched. The R20 had a hotter signal when switched from the R24. That alone would make it seem better! The R24 seem to have more of a glue to the mix as well.
@@slapopimp Thanks for your input! As I said in the video, I loaded the WAV files into audacity and normalized them. That being said, I'm definitely not a pro audio guy, so if there's anything I should have done different, I'm all open for suggestions!
My question is: are the R20 preamps better [cleaner, introduce less noise, more powerful] than the R24s? In the sound comparisons I always see importing a track recorded in the studio [so no preamps involved] or recorded from a keyboard/synth that has a high gain output [so that the preamp of the R24 is bypassed; not really used]. I understand that if the R24 gets the signal from another preamp the result is great, but what happens when there's no other preamp other than the Zoom R24s? Is the sound then way better captured in the R20? Are the R20 preamps better and less noisy? That would end the everlasting debate between the "recording sound" quality of both units,once and for all 😄
@@thephoenixchant I don't have an R20 so can't comment on the preamp comparison between the two units. That said, I've got the following mullti-tracker devices that i use regularly: 2 x R16's, 2 x MRS-1608's, an HD16, and a Yamaha AW2816. The preamps in the R16 are passable/useable but might not be the best of what you might find in other equipment. In everyday practice I'm generally not needing to use the preamps beyond just a little bump in signal for the odd hardware synth or two with a rather quiet output (e.g.: an Ensoniq EPS, and a Behringer Poly-D running through external FX). I play multiple instruments and own way too much gear, so pretty much anything i might have plugged into my R16's are already up to line level before being going into the R16. Moreover, when i've got something recorded that is worth sharing with others i tend to take out the SD card and move over to my PC for very minor post-production in the DAW. I.e., i'll normalize all the tracks in my DAW and then use noise-reduction to eliminate any background noise introduced by any preamps used (whether R16 preamps or not) and then just close out of the DAW to save all the edited .WAV's right back to the SD card. So in my experience i can't say i've noticed the R16's preamps being any better or worse than those on most other gear i own, and ANY preamp i'm using is going to introduce some amount of noise anyway, so..
Great video! Thanks for convincing me to just stick with my R24. I've been using the R24 for years. It sounds really good and there's just so much you can do with it. The only thing I'd like is more input channels. I bought the Tascam Model 24, but the built-in recorder was dead on arrival. It's probably not a very good start to working with that machine, so I took it back and didn't bother getting another one. The R24 build quality isn't the best either. I had two at one time that I sync'd up to record multiple channels, but two of the channels died on one of the the R24's. It was also a pain in the butt to get them to work well together. Take care, Sam.
Thanks, Sam! I think Zoom made some missteps in rebuilding the R series from scratch and I hope they release some firmware updates. (They already did by releasing a 2.0 firmware for the R20 some days ago, but it takes more).
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
Also, the R20 doesn't have the AA battery portable option. I was torn between the R8 and R20 as a regular mixer and something I can take on the road. But it was the battery option that made me go with the R8. If I need more tracks then I'll just get a better mixer in the future. The Tascam DP-008 EX is also a great one. A little cheaper and smaller than the R8, but it has less features. But they both have the battery powered option. So to rap this up, the Zoom R8 outsold the R20 to me the other day, simply due to the battery powered option LOL!
Watching vid as I reply but I can add my personal opinion. I have an R16 and an R20. The 1st month I had the R20 I was disappointed by the fixed 3band ch eq because the R16 had sweepable mids that was useful for notching frequencies particular to an instrument's range during mixdown. I was also initially disappointed by the mixdown effects of the R20. I had grown fond of the extensive bank of stereo mix fx in my R16. Lastly, and this is a lingering gripe, the R16 faders were better during any bank switch while mixing. On the R20, one may have to slide a sound up to get the ghost fader to move the volume. The R20 work around requires minimizing old style fader moves during mixdown by creating extra tracks to adjust volume within a mix. All said, once I had a recording process for the R20, the eq and fx lost from R16 have not been an issue and I prefer the R20 for its ease and quickness. Managing files (loading, duplicating etc) is much easier than the previous R boxes, even though the chassis feels cheap compared to older models. I'm subscribing. Thanks for the video.
Thank you very much! This reflects my own experience. The DAW-style sequencer makes navigating projects much easier. Plus, if you watched Gaz Rendar's video, you can add more effects with the Guitar Lab software. I think they could add some quality-of-life fixes to the R20's UI, for example, having to leave a project just to go into SD card reader mode is quite annoying, and so on.
@@mr_floydst Between yourself and Gaz, I'm hoping for a small user group to exchange issues and fixes with. Feel free to use my replies to leave a question or start a discussion.
Good review and comparison, thanks Floyd. I have the R16, which is very similar to the R24, bar the track count. The lack of per channel 6.5mm balanced input jacks put me off the R20 - I don't want to buy 8 extra leads at even more expense just to rig up my synths. Not sure what Tascam were thinking with the R20. Some great ideas, badly implemented.
Great video and great comparison. I have R24 and I am thinking of buying R20 for more usability and sound clarity, R24 is quite muddy sounding device. I am always try to get more clarity out of it, but I don't know what I am doing wrong, but now I know for better because your review, R24 device doesn't produce very clear sound, no matter what you do. I don't like to use DAWs they are too complicated for my taste, as hobby musician I just want to play different instruments and record and have fun playing, every DAWs I have tried feels the same, their workflow is feeling more like work than fun. How about guitar effects in R20 are they any better and not so muddy than in R24?
9:09 Your Master Volumes on both machines were Up & Down on each Take? You could've left both master volumes at +5 db so we can hear the real Volume comparison. The R24 would be more Louder & Dynamically Richer Sound if it was on +5 db 👉10:24 which btw was blurred out...?
Hi, thanks for watching! The master volume slider has no influence on the level of the actual recording. Only the preamps determine the loudness of the actual recording, and as I collected the WAV files from the SD cards, the master volume setting doesn't mean anything.
Glad I could help! I decided to go with the R20 (as I think the sound quality is superiour) but I'm really a bit angered they removed all the good stuff that was in the R24 / R16 / R8.
A really good information about both, the r20 and the r24. Thanks. Would you be so kind to tell me if the recording quality between R12 and R20 are similar? Is one of them better than the other one in terms of quality sound and quality recording? Thanks in advance.
Hi, thanks for watching! I don't remember where I read that, so take this info with a pinch of salt, but I think both use the same A/D converters and preamps.
I just bought my second R24 to have the master/slave 16 track option. I like the unit and I know it well, so It's works for live use because of that. I wish the built in mics had a pad function as they are easy to overload/distort. I will try a full set of rechargeable batteries at next rehearsal to see if that holds up 😉
Very interesting comparison. The touch screen on the R20 looks nearly unusable in the demo. It appears sluggish, with a difficult to use touch-interface design. Was it okay in real-life?
It depends :-) It's a far cry from android or ios devices, but it works ok most of the tiime. The only thing that _really_ drives me insane is trying to grab the "handles" of a section to loop or stretch it. ZOOM really needs to make those handles bigger.
The R20 is attractive, especially when it was on sale but one gripe I have is it only has 2x 1/4" inputs. It looks like the R24 has 8x combo jacks (XLR and 1/4"). I am trying to decide between the R24 and Tascam 24SD. If anyone has any thoughts on comparing those 2, let me know.
I don't know about you, but I found the R24 recording samples sounding better to my ear - maybe just not in terms of "objective quality", because the R20 does sound somewhat clearer and more "direct" (punchy?) so to speak, but the R24 seems to have a more pleasant overall tone, more dynamic range maybe (?), while the R20 seemed a little "flat" (not in the positive way, that is) in comparison; more "digital" if you will. Or maybe it's just the wax in my old ears that makes me fancy the "waxier" tone of R24 a little more? ;) Cheers!
Thanks for watching! Well, I guess anything is a matter of personal taste - in my opinion the R20 sounds both more powerful and transparent, at least I was able to detect more details (listen to the delay effect and the hihats for example). I guess there's a scientifically correct method to settle this, but I don't have the technical means to do so (a sine sweep with a device that is known to have a linear output would show us if one of the machines is boosting certain frequencies).
Nah, you're spot on. I was thinking the same thing. R20 is more clear but the R24 has a better overall sound. Like you said, more of a dynamic range. Like that warm 80's tone. They're both digital but one sounds MORE digital than the other LOL!
Great video comparison, to my 64 year old ears the R20 seemed to have more mid range, and I thought sounded muddier, whereas the R24 seemed brighter/clearer sounding, plus the R24 has more interesting features, and to my mind more potential.
Everything really depends on individual tastes and perception. To me, the R20 has a clear edge on the mid and high frequencies, but who am I to judge how other people perceive this. :-)
Just bought a used R24 - page 104 of the manual says that all 8 inputs have phantom, but they're switched in software not the front panel switch. Not obvious, but makes it a lot more professional. EDIT: My mistake, it's actually 6 inputs, 1 and 2 don't have phantom, but 3 through 8 can, and on that manual page you can turn it off for 3/4 and or 7/8 leaving just 5/6 on. Anyway, thought I'd better leave a correction for my correction, haha.
Really like the daw-like arrangement view. The screen seems very sluggish though and I am really not convinced I want to use my mixer as a synth! I feel it should just try to be excellent at being a mixer and recorder/arranger. Anyway, still happy that they are willing to bring such product to market.
The screen is a bit sluggish indeed, compared to a smartphone. There's an option to turn off the "snapping" which might or might not improve the overall impression. ;-)
@@mr_floydst Oh that's interesting actually since i don't use click tracks most of the time. It will be interesting when they release another R recorder in 10 years
Very nice comparison Floyd. Yes it is hard to choose between those 2. I would like to use one of them as a backing track player for me and my friends and I would also like to use it as a DAW controller with my Mac, witch one would you guys suggest ? Best regards Christian
I’m really pretty excited to get an r20, but after this video I’m worried that (since its been out for a few years now) as soon as I get one Zoom will release the new R20+ that has everything and then some! lol I’m going to have to save up for it but honestly, it already has more than I need or want so I really want one. I dislike using computers and having grown up with a Tascam mkII 4-track, I really like hardware, and using a computer to record music would really take the fun out of it for me. Using even the 4-track always felt more like a “music studio” like the ones I saw on TV…and even though I know music studios use coputers now too, it doesn’t feel fun to me. Having grown accustomed to visual layouts though, I DO appreciate the DAW-style display and workflow, so I think they took the best of both worlds. Would it be possible for me to add my own synthesizer sounds to the R-20, because if so, this combined with a midi controller and my voice and guitar would be all I ever needed?
Hi! Unfortunately, you can't edit the synth sounds, and you can't add new ones. Still, the R20 is nicely uncomplicated and reliable, and the internal effects are superb (you can add some particularly good-sounding delays and reverbs with the GuitarLab software).
I can't hear a difference. Theoretically, there is a chance you might get some aliasing on high-pitched sounds like cymbals, but in reality, it really does not happen. Here's a good read on this www.protoolsproduction.com/44-1khz-vs-48khz-audio-which-is-better/
Hi! Great video. I noticed you also have an MPC . Can that also do multitrack recording? If so, what do prefer about the zoom, vs plugging an interface into the MPC? I’m curious as I have an MPC but wanted to get an interface to increase the number of inputs/outputs so I could use it to record…but these zooms also look very interesting 🤔. Thanks for the great video!.
Hi, thanks for watching. The last time I tried, the MPC could capture one stereo track at a time but I'll check again and come back to you :-) I think the ZOOM and the MPC are a good match. Overall, the ZOOM doesn't get in the way a lot. You turn it on, you record stuff, done. You can then transfer your tracks to the MPC or a DAW for further refinement.
I had an r16 for a very long time, it sounded ok (not great) and had a great workflow. It had really bad build quality though. My r16 had a busted fader out of the box but the replacement was good. I was thinking of these r20 since I love mutitracks. Thanks for the video ! I think I will stick with my tascam dp24sd for the time now since it has more physical controls. The only issue with that is it only supports sdhc so 32gb limit. I do like the the interface of the r20 though. I think at this point I'm doing a hybrid setup with my model 12 and then do all post production in a daw (as much as I hate daws) or maybe just record into an ipad.
Thanks for watching! Using these boxes as an extension of your DAW is one of the many things they're good for (among recording 8 tracks at once, and other stuff).
Great video and comparison. I typically am a DAW user (Logic Pro). However, I am tempted to go DAWless at times... I have an option for a secondhand R24 (very good price), so this video has been very helpful. Thanks
During the audio comparison section, there is a very obvious volume jump going from the R24 to the R20. I noticed that I immediately favored the R20. It sounded "brighter," "more airy," "more alive." Once I forced the two audio streams to be equal in volume, I found I no longer favored the R20. The differences were hard to hear.
Thanks for your feedback! As I showed in the video, I normalized the WAV files to the same peak value in Audacity before dragging them into the video project. Do you have an idea why there's a volume difference, perceived or real?
@@mr_floydst Digging deeper, I'm listening to the audio test 1 section, starting about 9:12. I'm watching the meters on my RME digicheck software during playback. The RMS levels drop considerably when it switches from the R20 to the R24. The drops are as much as 2 to 3 dB (just eyeballing it). I'm also seeing a drop in the 3-5K region of the spectrum on the R24. This is likely the "brightness" thing that the R20 seems to have more of. More confusingly, moving to audio test 2 (ambient), about 9:43, the 2 units have much more matched levels and also the 3-5K difference has gone away. And I cannot hear any meaningful difference on this test. Then on to test 3, the big dB jumps come back, and I automatically favor the R20, which just happens to be louder. Of course, as you know, the brain automatically favors louder.
@@bravinneff7932you are wrong. the pre-amp on the new unit are way better. its not just a question of volume. they use better A/D/D/A CONVERTER. the sound difference come from that. one unit is 2011.. the other is 2023. .massive improvement in processing power changes in 12 years. that being said evrething is subjective. but i watch these video in 20k studio monitor. yes i know that its compress trought youtube.. but both exemple are.
You can find a used R24 for around 200€ here in Europe. I own 2 (my portable 16-track recording rig that fits in a backpack), paid 190€ for one, 240€ for the other. So it's pretty much case closed for me, at least 'till their next iteration/generation.
Haven't done serious recording yet with mine, but I've done some testing, just record and play a bit with mine in sync. They record, play and overall work independently. The transport gets sync'd and apparently that's it. Haven't tried bouncing (just took tracks out of both to a DAW after recording), but I'd bet each master track can only record a mix of the 8 "local" tracks.
@@bigoldnoob Yeah that's what i'm guessing. However i'm pretty sure you could hook up the headphone jack of one R24 into an input of the other if you aren't using more than 47 tracks you could easily bounce them old school and then do a master. Just that re-mastering would require you to repeat the process because the actual separated tracks are on the other machine. A faster process would be to create a master track on the receiving R24 with the input track being armed/live i suppose. Cause all that happens when you sync them is they're timed together. Pretty awesome that you can even do that though.
I can't answer with 100% certainty, but I think I read an interview some time ago in which ZOOM pointed out they were really satisfied with the improvements on the preamps. So yes, that's most likely the cause.
is there any kind of crossfade on the R20 or R24 when looping? I'm trying to find a way to play effectively different length tape loops and be able to fade the individual loops in and out. I can do this with DAW + controller, but i'd like a computer less option. Struggling to find it right now.
I own the R24 and the R20. Now I use both as an Audio Interface. R24 for Linux and Reaper, R20 Windows 11 and Garage Band. It is a good combination Audio Interface and Controller. For Mobile use I miss FX, synchronize,MIDI and Audio Quantize. As a Controller I miss Motorfader and more Banks when I have more than 20 Tracks.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
Being a jack user, I'm bummed about the XLR only input on the R20. It wasn't necessary to do that. It's also unfortunate they haven't added the sample play pads. While in this video it's used for the drumkit, you can also place every sample of your choice under every button which you can use as a 1-shot or loop, with which you can actually perform. I always hate the character limit for projects and tracknames on the R24, which is a plus on the R20. Soundwise it's obvious the R20 is the better choice. I'm going to stick with my R24 though and wait for the R22 😏
Tough call but ease of use plus better sound quality means the R20 is most probably going to be my next treat for my studio ( glorified but well loved shed ) and your advice has helped me keep on track,thanks. What would you advise for a newbie musician for synths and keyboards - 24 or 20 ? Thanks for a great review.
I decided to keep the R20 due to it's superior audio quality and better sequencer. The final mixes of my hobbyist music sound better than on R24 even though there are no mastering presets available. If you don't need the features I talked about in the first half of this video, the R20 it is.
@@mr_floydst Ok thanks Floyd that's very helpful - i'm also looking at the Tascam DP24SD so i'm not there yet but that was interesting to hear so thanks Floyd.
The thing I cannot seem to find and answer to is this: I know the R24 allows you to use it as a control surface when hooked up to a computer via USB. I do a lot of mixing in Premiere Pro and I have been looking for a control surface that also works as a mixer and Audio interface because doing it one track at a time with my mouse is ridiculously time consuming, so the R24 surface controller sounds amazing, but I was wondering if you can use the R20 for that as well--I would do that just for the better audio quality, but I can't find any info on whether or not it even does it.
I just got a great deal for a R24. I was lucky enough to get one for $260 before tax, and free shipping. I wanted to get something affordable, until I get my synth setup done. I'm okay with it not having perfect clear audio. It's good enough for what it is. I plan on using it to track synths and field recording. After I buy some more synths, then I'll worry about getting something that sounds perfect. I've been looking at the Mackie Onyx series, and the Tascam Model 16-24. I want something that has analog options. I have a bunch of software, and a few DAWs, so I can make up for any sound quality issues for now. The A-B definitely made the R20 louder and brighter, but the 24 is good enough. Especially for the price that I paid. The main genre I'll be using it for is experimental ambient lofi type stuff. I'll be doing my post production in a daw.
My guess is that options were removed from the R20, as most people these days will work on a DAW on their computer. The days of working on, and mixing a track exclusively on a console like this are entirely dead, except for some vintage holdouts for niche reasons. Personally, I would want this device firstly an 8 input audio interface ($450) rivaling the Clarett+ Pre8 ($900) at half the cost. Not too mention the ability to portably record, say, drums at a different space, and then tote it home to put it on the DAW is exceptional. Therefore, the sound upgrade is really what counts most for modern users. I will almost always track "clean raw" recordings, and worry about editing afterward. The only reason I would need to change any effect or EQ while recording would be at the request of bettering a musician's recording process.
Thanks for your feedback! All in all, you're totally right, "DAWless" recording and mixing is totally niche. But even viewed from your angle, the design decisions made for this product are puzzling. They removed the battery compartment, but put a lot of work into the editor (track and sequence arranger), which is typical DAW stuff.
@@mr_floydst Agreed. I do like the colored visual elements which can help you see more clearly what you are recording, but the touchscreen aspect of it is above and beyond. I'm guessing we're just at that point where the tech is so cheap that they throw it on just cause they can. The battery aspect wouldn't bother me as I will always be recording in some room with outlets, but yeah for people who do "live recordings" of nature/spaces, or man-on-the-street interviews/busking performances it would be a nice feature. The biggest problem for me is the limitation of 8 inputs. Don't get me wrong it's great, but I do wish there was an ADAT input or some way of purchasing an expansion to be able to record 12 or 16 inputs at once. That is something it can't compete with the Clarett+ on.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
It's been a while since I last used one, so take my answer with a pinch of salt: 1) Yes, that's possible. You can set up multiple drum tracks. 2) That's possible as well, but you'll lose an audio track for each drum sample (Bass Drum=Track 1, Snare=2, and so on)
@@mr_floydst ok cool so kick track 1, snare track 2, hi hats 3, my voice 4 (only 5 tracks simultaneously on r24 or 8 tracks simultaneously?). Wow I feel dumb now I bought r16 I should bought r24 to have drums smh
I've had the R16 for almost 10 years with zero issues and thousands of hours of use. Problem? It doesn't have cut and paste editing. Does the R24 have C/P? I'm not getting into DAW's, so the R20 was looking tempting. It clearly sounds great. Is it possible the R24 has lost audio quality from hours of use? Is that even possible with digital recording?
Thanks for watching! No, the R24 is just like the R16, but with 8 more tracks and a drum computer added. The R20 does have copy&paste. Well, degrading solder joints might influence sound quality, but it's highly unlikely (you had to put physical stress on the audio plugs to degrade the joints).
Unless there's some bad capacitors inside the unit, there's nothing that could degrade the sound this way in a modern digital audio device. The only other option I can think of is change in preamp stage design, the old unit might have had a lower threshold frequency in the filter.
I want to plug all my instruments into these devices so I can get more inputs for live performances throught my harbinger pa system is it possible to do that ? Trying to use it as a mixer as well for my live performances
@@strangesevin a friend of mine just bought a used r24 to record a 4 hour event. He ran two mics and two guitars into the r24 and then we ran a balanced line out into my Yamaha mg10xu. We panned the mg10xu to one stereo channel and used that for the master and monitor volume. Basically the monitor volume was the important part of that setup to be able to control that or I'm assuming we could have went without the mixer. Hope that helps your question.
Floyd, what is "EOX" you were referring to? Is it the high end cut on older models, making the R20 much better in the high frequency? Much thanks - Brian
ah, hahahahaha - I found it. well well, the youtube bot obviously didn't want to write what I said into the subtitles. haha :-) I'll put in the correct word later.
@@mr_floydst :). On another note, I am wondering if there is a hardware sequencer that can load any of my AU VST plugin instruments and effects on it, or a hosting machine, to avoid the need of switching on my computer every time. Does the MPC do this?
I own the zoom 24. The only thing I don't like about it is that ts not possible to record an acoustic guitar from one one input onto two or three trax simultaneously. So I end up using tascam dp24. Al though I like zooom and find it much more user friendly than the tascam. Is the R20 any better. Can you record from one input onto more than one track?
Hi, thanks for watching - there is no input routing on the R20. Track 1 is always track 1 and so on. You could of course just arm 2 or 3 tracks but I guess you want exactly the same track on all of them...
no......generally I pan and eq all the tracks differently. But the point is that I can play with the effects and plan my final sound before recording through that one input. Geenerally if I use the zoom I have to make a basic track, bounce it onto two other trax. Then I make what i can adding reverb, panning, eq etc.. Obviously it better to use as many trx as you like, sculpt your sound before playing a note. The tascam lets you do that, but oh what a complicated mess the tascam multi functional controls are! @@mr_floydst
Great video. Interesting how even after normalization the R24 sounds way quieter. If you just rendered without using any mastering algorithm in both units, I can only assume that the pre-amps are much better and cleaner in the R20.
@@mr_floydst I wonder if you ran a volume analyzer on those two recordings, whether the R20 might be compressing and putting out a higher intermediate LUFS signal - I really hear it as being louder, especially in the first example... after all, normalizing only makes the peaks sit at 0dB, there could still be more "loudness"... part of it could be difference in EQ too (older one could be less high frequency response). For me, the synthwave sounded most different - but if I turn by headphones up one notch on my laptop, it sounds just as loud as the R20, and then it (the R24) actually has more weight and sounds better in terms of bass and kick response. The middle track sounded almost exactly the same to me (and not too much bass in that one)... the rock one had a notable difference, once again, in the bass... so i do feel like there's some EQ in the inputs/preamps, at least, which could affect loudness also. :) Anyway, they're cool devices... I really enjoyed hooking up the R24 to multiple-out drum machines, jamming around for 10 minutes, then playing it back and having that immediate control of volume to "DJ" the levels a bit...
@@boothbuster You could very well be right in your assessment - as I said in the video, I'm not an audio engineer but merely a hobbyist. So that's why I showed how I leveled those recordings, so people that are more knowledgable than me can draw the right conclusions. :-)
@@mr_floydst no doubt! At least you were honest and you did match pretty closely… wayyy too many folks out there are comparing audio gear 10X the price and simply not level matching… makes me cry every time someone engages some expensive gear and is very excited but also the level is at least a solid 4 dB louder… :) thanks for making these, really enjoyed your RS7000 one. (I got one after watching your video but never get to really play with it… but will keep it as a collector’s item anyway, and hopefully spend more time eventually for fun.)
There is definitely a noticeable difference in audio recording between the two. Question(s): What sample rate did you record each at? If you bumped up the sample rate on the R24 then would it sound more clear like the R20? Great video by the way!
I notice that the R20 has the preamps set at a higher gain than the r24. I guess the R20 must be better if no external preamps are going to be used. It will give a cleaner sound, with less noise. To be used with certain mics, the r20 might be better. Is that so?
you must have superhuman timing if you record the tracks separately without midi timing. well good for analog guitar and voice, can you imagine, hitting the play on time and each and every time sliding the tracks to the almost maybe good start position? when I hit play on such a device, then it must start and play the midi master clock to every device that plays. only that way you can build up music.
For my part, you're running into open doors with your assessment. :-) It's really strange they didn't include MIDI sync now they even have a MIDI port.
Hello Floyd! Amatőr zenész vagyok, gitáron játszom. Az r20- at arra szeretném használni, hogy az egyik sávra dobot tennék, ami van is benne. Erre rágitároznék, majd szintetizátorral játszanék basszust és dallamot. Végül ezt a 4 sávot szeretném szerkeszteni PC nélkül és a végén egy zenét készíteni belőle. Vagy a szerkesztéshez mindenképpen kell Pc-t használnom például Audacity-t. A Zomm r20 alkalmas erre vagy inkább a Zomm r8-at próbáljam. Az még olcsóbb is. Előre köszönöm válaszodat! Rob
Hi! The R20 can do that, and the R8 as well. Difference is the R8 can only record one stereo track simultaneously while the R20 can do 4 stereo tracks simultaneously.
@@mr_floydst Szia! Köszönöm a gyors válaszodat! A Pc használatát el tudom kerülni az érintő képernyő használatával? Vagy ha sok az utómunka, akkor mindenképpen kell számítógépet használnom? Jelenleg az Audacity-re szoktam feljátszani a sávokat és ott rendezem össze a végső zenét. De ez sokszor elég idő igényes. Többet kell olykor szerkesztenem, mint amennyi időt a zenélés igénybe vesz. 😀
On both recorders, you can fully mix and produce a song. All the tools you need are there. You can also Transfer your tracks to a PC for further editing.
@@mr_floydst Ismét köszönöm a gyors választ! Az r8 jóval olcsóbb és sok embernek nem tetszik az r20, de én azt gondolom még is az r20-at választom. Szerintem sokkal modernebb és jobban tudok, majd dolgozni vele. Remélem beválik majd. Jó zenélést kívánok neked!
Can I just import a beat and record over it, I have an mpc one so I don’t need all those pads just looking for a portable recording device I can jam in my car with?
Yes, you can do that on both devices. They need to be in WAV format. Drop them onto a USB stick or SD card and you can assign them to one of the tracks then.
Have you looked at the tascam model 12? . It has midi clock sync. I was soooo mad because when they teased the r20 it said it had midi, but they just meant it was for the dumb synth track when it released. I literally had my zoom h8 for sale on reverb but canceled when I found out.
Wow. I was going to get an r24 but it's so tinny compared to the r20. So much more bass, roundness and clarity. You can hear this most clearly on the "rock" take. The guitar was so bad in the r24 and so good on the r20.
That's my impression as well, but some of my viewers disagree, pointing out I didn't do the leveling correctly (which I describe in the video). But my daily impression is the thing I recorded is true and the R20 does sound better, and notably so.
@@mr_floydst Btw, how much compression do you find the preamps add (not the compression effect, just the preamps dry) when you're recording a touch sensitive instrument like guitar? I've sometimes had problems with some preamps with a too-compressed signal for some things like solo guitar pieces.
thank you for the education you have given me, my question, i have zoom r24 I connect to my laptop is acceptable, after a while it strikes but if I connect it to another laptop with the same cable it accepts whats the problems?
Thanks for watching. I'm afraid I can't diagnose the problem from afar - the first thing I'd try is to exchange the USB cable. Also, check for error messages on your computer: www.alphr.com/windows-10-error-log-how-to-access-error-logs/
Good video! 👍 MIDI sync is a big omission 🙄. I'm still using my ancient Korg D1600 multitracker (I don't like the Audio Tracks on the MPC One so the D1600 handles that) but I keep my eyes open in case the Korg dies. I need to be able to sync both units.
@@mr_floydst Yes, that is really annoying. Also things get very confusing if you copy a sequence that has audio tracks - I tried to do some experiments to figure it out but gave up. Mostly I use the sampler for audio tracks and chop them up so I can trigger them.
Very nice video! I have a question: R24 has the genius feature that you can use the metronome track only on phones output, and it can be any audio track you have on SDcard (metronome with your voice or any other sound for example); does the R20 have the same function? On R20, can I play a backing track wav on main out L+R and simultaneously other audio track as a metronome on the separated phones output? Thanks so much
Will the R20's xlr inputs accept line level, or is it just the two combi inputs that would accept line level signals, I like how the R16 and R24 have 8 combi inputs, and now wondering if the R20 can handle 8 line level input signals, using quarter inch to xlr cables connected to the 6 inputs that are xlr only, or are those 6 xlr inputs mic level only?
@@KeltyVince I've decided to keep the R20 despite its many downgrades. To me, it clearly sounds better (despite many of my viewers claiming the opposite ;-) ) and the touch screen makes editing *possible* (I know it's possible on the R24, too, but I never really edited on the R24 because of it's "mechanical" interface). But don't take my word for it. Best is to try both and see what's best for you. R24 also received some price cuts.
@@mr_floydst I haven't really got the option to try them both without ordering them both and sending one back, to much trouble for me, I'm not to fussy about editing in the recorder as I also use Reaper, so would just export the tracks to that for final edits etc, I wonder what AD converters are best in these machines, the R20 seems to sound better, but if both are used just for recording, do the individual tracks sound better when played back in the DAW, or is it the output of the R20 that's better than the R24, as in the DA is better in the R20, or both the AD and DA are better in the R20?, sorry if this is asking to much, but I'd rather have the R24 if it's exported tracks sounded just as good as the R20's exported tracks, the battery operation being one of the main reasons for preferring the R24.
Is the audio quality on the R20 truly exceptional, or is the audio on the older unit just trash? Because that is a night and day difference over my speakers. But I don’t want to buy an R20 just based on the low quality sound of the R24 if the Tascam DP sounds just as good.
Well, I'm just a hobby producer and not a professional audio engineer, but to my ears, the R20 sounds notably better than the R24. Some of my viewers strongly disagree, but I had both machines side by side for a week or so and the R20 always sounded better, more dynamic and clear. The R24 was pretty good, I had both Boss BR-80 and Tascam DP-006 which were clearly inferior to the R24.
@@mr_floydst if someone can’t hear the difference, they must not be using decent speakers. I’m coming from an Akai DPS 16 that is breaking down, and I’m frustrated by the lack of s/pdif on all of the new machines and most of the audio interfaces out now. Not to mention 5 pin MIDI
I'm very disappointed in the R20, ended up returning it. Zoom literally removed all of the features that I relied on the most, and the R20 is completely unusable for the style of music I do while the R24 was manageable for it.
@@mr_floydst I think the biggest loss for me was the inability to setup variable time signatures in the same song. The R24 was able to accommodate time signature changes, and I write mostly prog. I think they could at least add that in a firmware update if they were willing
I'm searching for a device for backingtracks in live situations. Just need 4 Stereo tracks which should be easily to handle live. I don't need it to record instruments, only for playbacks. I had the R8 and this had a Setlist mode which was useful but I didn't liked the menu and how to handle. I heard the r20 hasn't a Setlist mode but what if I just load all songs successively? Is it possible to set tempo changes in between and is it possible that a songs stops so I just press start for the next song?
Hi Floyd, can you tell if it is possible add use an insert stereo effect in the R20? For example use a Stereo Spreader on a Stereo Drum Track? Are the insert effects only mono?
Hi! You can use send effects on synth tracks (and the drum synth is one of those). Those effects are a selection of both stereo and mono effects. Some nice ones among them, e.g. tape delay and some of the reverbs. You can create some cool effects by chaining them.
@@mr_floydst From what I understand, there are send effects (in track settings (likely for reverb and delays)) but also insert effects (taping a track number and then taping the effect icon in the control bar ( next to the tempo) ). Can these insert effects be used on stereo audio tracks?
The insert effects can be used on stereo audio tracks and I can confirm some of them are true stereo (hard panning your instrument right will result in ... well... a hard right panned instrument with e.g. the delay or reverb in full stereo)
I have owned 2 r24s,and now own a r 20. I am considering selling the r 20 and going back to the r 24. The r20 is not switchable from 16bit 44k to 24 bit 44k. It is fixed to 24 bit 44 k. This is a problem for me because I have lots of audio from other sources I would like to drop into the r20 but all of the other audio is either 16/44 or 24/48 sampling rates. The R20 will only let you insert the outside audio clips if it is 24bit 44k! ....A note on trying to sync 2 r24s. They don't actually syc together. Although you can set on as the master and the other as the slave,there is no actual time code that they can completely sync to. They are always slightly out of time with each other.
Thanks for watching! I think it might be worth returning to the R20 once some firmware updates have been made (if they ever come). At the moment, moving from the R24 to the R20 is really a step down in everything but audio quality.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
There are compressors, EQs and limiters in the R20, so you _can_ master your tracks - but there are no handy presets, and some of the R24s effects are absent (stereo enhancer comes to mind)
I wish that they had design the R20 with individual channel out so that it can be use for Live performance especially better output level control for individual drum audio imported parts (example, like audio wav output from Superior Drummer).
@@mr_floydst I don’t wanna start a beat from scratch, just import a beat I already made and record over it can I do that if I can get the r24 for like 250, here’s what I came to, Zoom r24, tascam model 12 or tascam 008ex?
The R24 can do that. Just drag your track into the project folder while the R24 is acting as an SD card reader. Then disconnect, create a new project, import your MPC beat into one of the tracks and use all the other tracks to record additional stuff. I tried Tascam in the past, and their way of handling external files and file export is hugely annoying. On ZOOM devices, you can access all the WAV files directly without needed to run a painfully slow rendering process.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! Oh, ok. for some reason, that didn't happen to me so far, but my microphone is a little bit further away from the R20.
Hi I watched your video and I find it very interesting. I have a problem, I bought the r16 together with 4 mic beringher: sl75c, ba19a, b5 panoramic .. only that both the speaker and the panoramas want the panthom present only on channel 5 and 6. How can I solve the problem and connect my second panoramic? thanks in advance for your attention
Hi! The R16 has phantom power on input 5&6 only. To use a third phantom powered mic, you need an external amp. Those are relatively cheap, for example, I'm using the Behringer Tube Ultra Gain 100, but there are lot of other models out there.
@@mr_floydst hi you have been very kind, so by connecting this device to my normal r16 input (no phantom input) I connect my third condenser microphone to the device and so I have my third phantom channel?
Hi, basically, you can use the R24 as an audio interface for MPC One. But I couldn't get it to capture more than 2 audio tracks at once, but maybe that's just me. Perhaps some of my viewers can share their experiences?
I'm trying to use the r20 to create a loop and then export that WAV into a computer to be uploaded to a roland spd sx, where it will be triggered and looped for live performance. Is it possible to set loops out of the parameters of the timing of the r20's internal sequencer or must loops be "snapped" to the timing of the sequencer?
Hi, thanks for watching. I hope I got your question right. In the project settings, you can turn off "snapping". All parts you create can then have any length and repeated regardless of the time measurement your project has.
I'm just a nerd posting RUclips videos, but I definitely did not apply compression algorithms to the recordings. I also suppose there's no "hidden compression" on the R20.
That's really hard to tell. ZOOM do support their products, but mainly for bugfixes. Though they once totally re-invented their ARQ-96 with a firmware update.
I own the Zoom R24. I've had it since 2012 and I use it to record all of my albums with it. The editing functions are simple and never had an issue with it. I still use it to this day and sacrificing some tracks for a touch screen on the R20 would seem cumbersome. The R20 may be new, but nothing beats the authenticity and portability of the R24.
Thanks for watching! It's (as anything is) really a matter of personal preferences. For me, the R20 sounded ever so slightly more "clear" (as can be heard in the video). Otherwise, I totally agree to you, a mechanical interface is always preferable to a touch screen.
100 percent they went backwards on this only 2 combo audio jacks not battey operated, no built in conducer mics I would not get one if it was going to me my AIF
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own?
@@legendsflashback The drum function, I never use, since I use drums from my keyboards and a live kit from time to time, but I'm quite sure you can.
@@depositiveone2677 cool thx
This was incredibly helpful.
With the massive price drop on the R20, it has become an interesting option - but I'm not sure it has the feature set I'm after. With both of these, I like the idea of a DAWless recording setup. I now have a good comparison rather than simply reading the marketing text. Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
This video, so far, is the most thourough I've seen covering every feature the unit has to offer.
Thanks for watching! I guess the number of people who sidegraded from the R24 to R20 and that also were willing to upload the process to RUclips is relatively small. ;)
@@mr_floydst I'm going R20.
I wish someone would make an R8 with 8 inputs and 8 outputs. It would be a great machine for demos and for production where you want to mix with a separate console but giving you a lot of options for how you want to track and mix. Would also make a great audio interface.
Thanks for watching! The R20 comes close with 8 Inputs and 4 outputs, but your idea would be even better. 🙂
OMG, that would dominate the market! Hey @Zoom, you listening???
Use a splitter snake for more outputs
Adding a splitter snake does not give me access to each channel separately, say a whole drum kit miked with 6to 8 mics…That would just be a summed mix, or just two channels to individually dump one or two at time into DAW or an old Real to reel a track that I have. Eight ins/8 outputs would allow Way more flexibility/ speed for remote recording. As well as being able to dump each track into its own track without worrying about time alignment issues. I know, “audio people” make things way more complicated than we need to. Just been doing this now for, 30 years and have amassed to much equipment…
@@revnichols1 you can split each into two mono to double your ouputs but yes you wouldnt be able to use it like that with this method but could still be used in a different situation calm it pal no need to flex
Really nice comparison. Your little experiment confirmed what I thought I was hearing - that the R20 sounds a little bit better than the old R-series, especially in the clarity and brightness of the mids and treble. Here's hoping Zoom keeps the firmware updates coming. +1 sub!
Thanks! I'd return the favour, but I already subbed some time ago. :-)
Would've been nice if the examples were actually level matched. The R20 had a hotter signal when switched from the R24. That alone would make it seem better! The R24 seem to have more of a glue to the mix as well.
@@slapopimp Thanks for your input! As I said in the video, I loaded the WAV files into audacity and normalized them. That being said, I'm definitely not a pro audio guy, so if there's anything I should have done different, I'm all open for suggestions!
My question is: are the R20 preamps better [cleaner, introduce less noise, more powerful] than the R24s? In the sound comparisons I always see importing a track recorded in the studio [so no preamps involved] or recorded from a keyboard/synth that has a high gain output [so that the preamp of the R24 is bypassed; not really used]. I understand that if the R24 gets the signal from another preamp the result is great, but what happens when there's no other preamp other than the Zoom R24s? Is the sound then way better captured in the R20? Are the R20 preamps better and less noisy? That would end the everlasting debate between the "recording sound" quality of both units,once and for all 😄
@@thephoenixchant I don't have an R20 so can't comment on the preamp comparison between the two units.
That said, I've got the following mullti-tracker devices that i use regularly: 2 x R16's, 2 x MRS-1608's, an HD16, and a Yamaha AW2816. The preamps in the R16 are passable/useable but might not be the best of what you might find in other equipment. In everyday practice I'm generally not needing to use the preamps beyond just a little bump in signal for the odd hardware synth or two with a rather quiet output (e.g.: an Ensoniq EPS, and a Behringer Poly-D running through external FX). I play multiple instruments and own way too much gear, so pretty much anything i might have plugged into my R16's are already up to line level before being going into the R16.
Moreover, when i've got something recorded that is worth sharing with others i tend to take out the SD card and move over to my PC for very minor post-production in the DAW. I.e., i'll normalize all the tracks in my DAW and then use noise-reduction to eliminate any background noise introduced by any preamps used (whether R16 preamps or not) and then just close out of the DAW to save all the edited .WAV's right back to the SD card. So in my experience i can't say i've noticed the R16's preamps being any better or worse than those on most other gear i own, and ANY preamp i'm using is going to introduce some amount of noise anyway, so..
Great video! Thanks for convincing me to just stick with my R24. I've been using the R24 for years. It sounds really good and there's just so much you can do with it. The only thing I'd like is more input channels. I bought the Tascam Model 24, but the built-in recorder was dead on arrival. It's probably not a very good start to working with that machine, so I took it back and didn't bother getting another one. The R24 build quality isn't the best either. I had two at one time that I sync'd up to record multiple channels, but two of the channels died on one of the the R24's. It was also a pain in the butt to get them to work well together. Take care, Sam.
Thanks, Sam! I think Zoom made some missteps in rebuilding the R series from scratch and I hope they release some firmware updates. (They already did by releasing a 2.0 firmware for the R20 some days ago, but it takes more).
@@mr_floydst For more inputs add another R16/24.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
@@legendsflashbackI never use the onboard r24 drums. I always just use my own drum machines. Sorry, I don't know.
@@machiwoomiapoo ok cool but seem like good option imagine 2 buttons sp1200 2 buttons mpc60 sound and 4 more other machines
Also, the R20 doesn't have the AA battery portable option. I was torn between the R8 and R20 as a regular mixer and something I can take on the road. But it was the battery option that made me go with the R8. If I need more tracks then I'll just get a better mixer in the future. The Tascam DP-008 EX is also a great one. A little cheaper and smaller than the R8, but it has less features. But they both have the battery powered option. So to rap this up, the Zoom R8 outsold the R20 to me the other day, simply due to the battery powered option LOL!
I really don't know what they were thinking. This should have been an all-singing, all-dancing upgrade. ;-)
Wolf. I agree with you 100 Percent!
They should of made this r20 with batteries as well!!!!!!! Darn!!!!!!
Watching vid as I reply but I can add my personal opinion. I have an R16 and an R20. The 1st month I had the R20 I was disappointed by the fixed 3band ch eq because the R16 had sweepable mids that was useful for notching frequencies particular to an instrument's range during mixdown.
I was also initially disappointed by the mixdown effects of the R20. I had grown fond of the extensive bank of stereo mix fx in my R16.
Lastly, and this is a lingering gripe, the R16 faders were better during any bank switch while mixing. On the R20, one may have to slide a sound up to get the ghost fader to move the volume. The R20 work around requires minimizing old style fader moves during mixdown by creating extra tracks to adjust volume within a mix.
All said, once I had a recording process for the R20, the eq and fx lost from R16 have not been an issue and I prefer the R20 for its ease and quickness.
Managing files (loading, duplicating etc) is much easier than the previous R boxes, even though the chassis feels cheap compared to older models.
I'm subscribing. Thanks for the video.
Thank you very much! This reflects my own experience. The DAW-style sequencer makes navigating projects much easier. Plus, if you watched Gaz Rendar's video, you can add more effects with the Guitar Lab software.
I think they could add some quality-of-life fixes to the R20's UI, for example, having to leave a project just to go into SD card reader mode is quite annoying, and so on.
@@mr_floydst Between yourself and Gaz, I'm hoping for a small user group to exchange issues and fixes with. Feel free to use my replies to leave a question or start a discussion.
Good review and comparison, thanks Floyd.
I have the R16, which is very similar to the R24, bar the track count.
The lack of per channel 6.5mm balanced input jacks put me off the R20 - I don't want to buy 8 extra leads at even more expense just to rig up my synths. Not sure what Tascam were thinking with the R20. Some great ideas, badly implemented.
This sums up my own impressions pretty well. :-)
Stellar job. Exactly the info I wanted to find. Subbed.
Thank you very much!
Great video and great comparison. I have R24 and I am thinking of buying R20 for more usability and sound clarity, R24 is quite muddy sounding device. I am always try to get more clarity out of it, but I don't know what I am doing wrong, but now I know for better because your review, R24 device doesn't produce very clear sound, no matter what you do. I don't like to use DAWs they are too complicated for my taste, as hobby musician I just want to play different instruments and record and have fun playing, every DAWs I have tried feels the same, their workflow is feeling more like work than fun. How about guitar effects in R20 are they any better and not so muddy than in R24?
The guitar effects in the R20 are good, but a bit more "curated" (read: there are less of them compared to the R24)
Great video, thanks Floyd!
Thanks for watching!
9:09 Your Master Volumes on both machines were Up & Down on each Take? You could've left both master volumes at +5 db so we can hear the
real Volume comparison. The R24 would be more Louder & Dynamically Richer Sound if it was on +5 db 👉10:24 which btw was blurred out...?
Hi, thanks for watching! The master volume slider has no influence on the level of the actual recording. Only the preamps determine the loudness of the actual recording, and as I collected the WAV files from the SD cards, the master volume setting doesn't mean anything.
Thanks for making this video! Sooo important to hear the sound differences between similar types of recording gear. Awesome job, many thanks 👏
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this great comparison Floyd! It convinced me to stick with my R24 though
Glad I could help! I decided to go with the R20 (as I think the sound quality is superiour) but I'm really a bit angered they removed all the good stuff that was in the R24 / R16 / R8.
@@mr_floydst Maybe Zoom will release a R30 with those missing features!
A really good information about both, the r20 and the r24. Thanks. Would you be so kind to tell me if the recording quality between R12 and R20 are similar? Is one of them better than the other one in terms of quality sound and quality recording? Thanks in advance.
Hi, thanks for watching! I don't remember where I read that, so take this info with a pinch of salt, but I think both use the same A/D converters and preamps.
@@mr_floydst Thanks...
Great info and comparison. I think I honestly lean toward the R24...and the ambient music tracks were good..
Hi, thanks for watching! If you're using it for recording a band, the R24 is the better option clearly. More hands-on controls, for example.
Welcome into the Club 😂me too. R24 is much better.
R24 has been discontinued?
I just bought my second R24 to have the master/slave 16 track option. I like the unit and I know it well, so It's works for live use because of that. I wish the built in mics had a pad function as they are easy to overload/distort. I will try a full set of rechargeable batteries at next rehearsal to see if that holds up 😉
Very interesting comparison. The touch screen on the R20 looks nearly unusable in the demo. It appears sluggish, with a difficult to use touch-interface design. Was it okay in real-life?
It depends :-) It's a far cry from android or ios devices, but it works ok most of the tiime. The only thing that _really_ drives me insane is trying to grab the "handles" of a section to loop or stretch it. ZOOM really needs to make those handles bigger.
A 10" screen is required in 2024.
Exelent explanation I found up till now. Thank you very much.
Thanks for watching!
The R20 is attractive, especially when it was on sale but one gripe I have is it only has 2x 1/4" inputs. It looks like the R24 has 8x combo jacks (XLR and 1/4"). I am trying to decide between the R24 and Tascam 24SD.
If anyone has any thoughts on comparing those 2, let me know.
I don't know about you, but I found the R24 recording samples sounding better to my ear - maybe just not in terms of "objective quality", because the R20 does sound somewhat clearer and more "direct" (punchy?) so to speak, but the R24 seems to have a more pleasant overall tone, more dynamic range maybe (?), while the R20 seemed a little "flat" (not in the positive way, that is) in comparison; more "digital" if you will. Or maybe it's just the wax in my old ears that makes me fancy the "waxier" tone of R24 a little more? ;) Cheers!
Thanks for watching! Well, I guess anything is a matter of personal taste - in my opinion the R20 sounds both more powerful and transparent, at least I was able to detect more details (listen to the delay effect and the hihats for example).
I guess there's a scientifically correct method to settle this, but I don't have the technical means to do so (a sine sweep with a device that is known to have a linear output would show us if one of the machines is boosting certain frequencies).
Nah, you're spot on. I was thinking the same thing. R20 is more clear but the R24 has a better overall sound. Like you said, more of a dynamic range. Like that warm 80's tone. They're both digital but one sounds MORE digital than the other LOL!
I've been recording synthesisers and drums on the R24 for over a year now and I really like it. My recordings come out verbatim.
I used it for many years. It's a great recorder.
Great video comparison, to my 64 year old ears the R20 seemed to have more mid range, and I thought sounded muddier, whereas the R24 seemed brighter/clearer sounding, plus the R24 has more interesting features, and to my mind more potential.
Everything really depends on individual tastes and perception. To me, the R20 has a clear edge on the mid and high frequencies, but who am I to judge how other people perceive this. :-)
Just bought a used R24 - page 104 of the manual says that all 8 inputs have phantom, but they're switched in software not the front panel switch. Not obvious, but makes it a lot more professional. EDIT: My mistake, it's actually 6 inputs, 1 and 2 don't have phantom, but 3 through 8 can, and on that manual page you can turn it off for 3/4 and or 7/8 leaving just 5/6 on. Anyway, thought I'd better leave a correction for my correction, haha.
Thanks for pointing that out! My bad, you're right!
Really like the daw-like arrangement view. The screen seems very sluggish though and I am really not convinced I want to use my mixer as a synth! I feel it should just try to be excellent at being a mixer and recorder/arranger. Anyway, still happy that they are willing to bring such product to market.
The screen is a bit sluggish indeed, compared to a smartphone. There's an option to turn off the "snapping" which might or might not improve the overall impression. ;-)
@@mr_floydst Oh that's interesting actually since i don't use click tracks most of the time. It will be interesting when they release another R recorder in 10 years
Very nice comparison Floyd.
Yes it is hard to choose between those 2.
I would like to use one of them as a backing track player for me and my friends and I would also like to use it as a DAW controller with my Mac, witch one would you guys suggest ?
Best regards Christian
The R24 has more physical controls. So that's better for controlling your DAW.
I’m really pretty excited to get an r20, but after this video I’m worried that (since its been out for a few years now) as soon as I get one Zoom will release the new R20+ that has everything and then some! lol I’m going to have to save up for it but honestly, it already has more than I need or want so I really want one. I dislike using computers and having grown up with a Tascam mkII 4-track, I really like hardware, and using a computer to record music would really take the fun out of it for me. Using even the 4-track always felt more like a “music studio” like the ones I saw on TV…and even though I know music studios use coputers now too, it doesn’t feel fun to me. Having grown accustomed to visual layouts though, I DO appreciate the DAW-style display and workflow, so I think they took the best of both worlds.
Would it be possible for me to add my own synthesizer sounds to the R-20, because if so, this combined with a midi controller and my voice and guitar would be all I ever needed?
Hi! Unfortunately, you can't edit the synth sounds, and you can't add new ones.
Still, the R20 is nicely uncomplicated and reliable, and the internal effects are superb (you can add some particularly good-sounding delays and reverbs with the GuitarLab software).
Great information! If you use effects on the R20 can you still record in 24 bit / 48khz or only 16 bit 44khz. This is the concern with the R8.
Hi, R20 can't record in 48khz at all. It's always 24bit 44.1khz.
@@mr_floydst Do you think there is a noticeable difference in sound quality between 44khz and 48khz?
I can't hear a difference. Theoretically, there is a chance you might get some aliasing on high-pitched sounds like cymbals, but in reality, it really does not happen. Here's a good read on this www.protoolsproduction.com/44-1khz-vs-48khz-audio-which-is-better/
Hi! Great video. I noticed you also have an MPC . Can that also do multitrack recording? If so, what do prefer about the zoom, vs plugging an interface into the MPC? I’m curious as I have an MPC but wanted to get an interface to increase the number of inputs/outputs so I could use it to record…but these zooms also look very interesting 🤔. Thanks for the great video!.
Hi, thanks for watching. The last time I tried, the MPC could capture one stereo track at a time but I'll check again and come back to you :-)
I think the ZOOM and the MPC are a good match. Overall, the ZOOM doesn't get in the way a lot. You turn it on, you record stuff, done. You can then transfer your tracks to the MPC or a DAW for further refinement.
I had an r16 for a very long time, it sounded ok (not great) and had a great workflow. It had really bad build quality though. My r16 had a busted fader out of the box but the replacement was good. I was thinking of these r20 since I love mutitracks. Thanks for the video ! I think I will stick with my tascam dp24sd for the time now since it has more physical controls. The only issue with that is it only supports sdhc so 32gb limit. I do like the the interface of the r20 though. I think at this point I'm doing a hybrid setup with my model 12 and then do all post production in a daw (as much as I hate daws) or maybe just record into an ipad.
Thanks for watching! Using these boxes as an extension of your DAW is one of the many things they're good for (among recording 8 tracks at once, and other stuff).
I was eager to check out the R20 having had an R24 in the past, but I'm disappointed at the lackluster MIDI implementation.
I think Zoom will _never_ implement MIDI sync on one of their multitrackers. ;-)
thanx-there is not many vids on the r24 although t is a very useful machine. A nice, lightweight batterypowered 8 track mixer -and recorder
I made a couple of videos on the R24 in the last years, but they're very slow paced and kind of awkward, haha :-)
Great video and comparison. I typically am a DAW user (Logic Pro). However, I am tempted to go DAWless at times... I have an option for a secondhand R24 (very good price), so this video has been very helpful. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
This was brilliantly done!
Thank you!
During the audio comparison section, there is a very obvious volume jump going from the R24 to the R20. I noticed that I immediately favored the R20. It sounded "brighter," "more airy," "more alive." Once I forced the two audio streams to be equal in volume, I found I no longer favored the R20. The differences were hard to hear.
Thanks for your feedback!
As I showed in the video, I normalized the WAV files to the same peak value in Audacity before dragging them into the video project. Do you have an idea why there's a volume difference, perceived or real?
@@mr_floydst Because RMS values are what count, not peak values.
@@mr_floydst Digging deeper, I'm listening to the audio test 1 section, starting about 9:12. I'm watching the meters on my RME digicheck software during playback. The RMS levels drop considerably when it switches from the R20 to the R24. The drops are as much as 2 to 3 dB (just eyeballing it). I'm also seeing a drop in the 3-5K region of the spectrum on the R24. This is likely the "brightness" thing that the R20 seems to have more of.
More confusingly, moving to audio test 2 (ambient), about 9:43, the 2 units have much more matched levels and also the 3-5K difference has gone away. And I cannot hear any meaningful difference on this test.
Then on to test 3, the big dB jumps come back, and I automatically favor the R20, which just happens to be louder. Of course, as you know, the brain automatically favors louder.
Thanks for your very detailed analysis and explanation! Unfortunately, I can't repeat this test with the corrections you suggested :-/
@@bravinneff7932you are wrong. the pre-amp on the new unit are way better. its not just a question of volume. they use better A/D/D/A CONVERTER.
the sound difference come from that.
one unit is 2011.. the other is 2023. .massive improvement in processing power changes in 12 years.
that being said evrething is subjective.
but i watch these video in 20k studio monitor.
yes i know that its compress trought youtube.. but both exemple are.
Looks like an interesting bit of kit. certainly tempting
Thanks for watching!
best overview/tute ive seen 👀 go floyd 🫀
Thank you very much!
Great comparison video. Thank you
Thanks for watching!
Great video. Please, would you be so kind to tell me the year was made the R20??? Thanks
Hi! It was released in late 2021 and hit store shelves in early 22.
@@mr_floydst Thanks a lot.
You can find a used R24 for around 200€ here in Europe. I own 2 (my portable 16-track recording rig that fits in a backpack), paid 190€ for one, 240€ for the other. So it's pretty much case closed for me, at least 'till their next iteration/generation.
When you sync them up like that, can you use the swap, bounce, and master recording between the two?
Haven't done serious recording yet with mine, but I've done some testing, just record and play a bit with mine in sync. They record, play and overall work independently. The transport gets sync'd and apparently that's it. Haven't tried bouncing (just took tracks out of both to a DAW after recording), but I'd bet each master track can only record a mix of the 8 "local" tracks.
@@bigoldnoob Yeah that's what i'm guessing. However i'm pretty sure you could hook up the headphone jack of one R24 into an input of the other if you aren't using more than 47 tracks you could easily bounce them old school and then do a master. Just that re-mastering would require you to repeat the process because the actual separated tracks are on the other machine. A faster process would be to create a master track on the receiving R24 with the input track being armed/live i suppose.
Cause all that happens when you sync them is they're timed together.
Pretty awesome that you can even do that though.
Thank you very interesting. Is it the preamps that make the difference between the sound of each?
I can't answer with 100% certainty, but I think I read an interview some time ago in which ZOOM pointed out they were really satisfied with the improvements on the preamps. So yes, that's most likely the cause.
an excellent comparison, thanks!
Thanks for watching! :)
is there any kind of crossfade on the R20 or R24 when looping? I'm trying to find a way to play effectively different length tape loops and be able to fade the individual loops in and out. I can do this with DAW + controller, but i'd like a computer less option. Struggling to find it right now.
I'm afraid this isn't possible on the R machines (if I'm wrong, please correct me)
I own the R24 and the R20. Now I use both as an Audio Interface. R24 for Linux and Reaper, R20 Windows 11 and Garage Band. It is a good combination Audio Interface and Controller. For Mobile use I miss FX, synchronize,MIDI and Audio Quantize. As a Controller I miss Motorfader and more Banks when I have more than 20 Tracks.
Thanks for watching! Both are pretty good audio interfaces, but as a controller, the R24 has the edge.
@@mr_floydst is it possible to cascade both r24 with USB and to have a Controller for 48 Tracks?
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
Although the 20 is clearer, I prefer the sound of the 24.
Is the Sample Rate set to 44.1 on both?
Hi, thanks for watching - yes, sample rate is 44.1khz.
Being a jack user, I'm bummed about the XLR only input on the R20. It wasn't necessary to do that. It's also unfortunate they haven't added the sample play pads. While in this video it's used for the drumkit, you can also place every sample of your choice under every button which you can use as a 1-shot or loop, with which you can actually perform. I always hate the character limit for projects and tracknames on the R24, which is a plus on the R20. Soundwise it's obvious the R20 is the better choice. I'm going to stick with my R24 though and wait for the R22 😏
You're running into open doors here :) The list of things they Removed fills 3 Pages at least...
Tough call but ease of use plus better sound quality means the R20 is most probably going to be my next treat for my studio ( glorified but well loved shed ) and your advice has helped me keep on track,thanks. What would you advise for a newbie musician for synths and keyboards - 24 or 20 ? Thanks for a great review.
I decided to keep the R20 due to it's superior audio quality and better sequencer. The final mixes of my hobbyist music sound better than on R24 even though there are no mastering presets available. If you don't need the features I talked about in the first half of this video, the R20 it is.
@@mr_floydst Ok thanks Floyd that's very helpful - i'm also looking at the Tascam DP24SD so i'm not there yet but that was interesting to hear so thanks Floyd.
The thing I cannot seem to find and answer to is this: I know the R24 allows you to use it as a control surface when hooked up to a computer via USB. I do a lot of mixing in Premiere Pro and I have been looking for a control surface that also works as a mixer and Audio interface because doing it one track at a time with my mouse is ridiculously time consuming, so the R24 surface controller sounds amazing, but I was wondering if you can use the R20 for that as well--I would do that just for the better audio quality, but I can't find any info on whether or not it even does it.
Hi, thanks for watching! The R20 has the "DAW control" option, too. You can switch it on and off on the touch screen in the options menu.
Excellent video Floyd:)
Thank you!
I just got a great deal for a R24. I was lucky enough to get one for $260 before tax, and free shipping. I wanted to get something affordable, until I get my synth setup done. I'm okay with it not having perfect clear audio. It's good enough for what it is. I plan on using it to track synths and field recording. After I buy some more synths, then I'll worry about getting something that sounds perfect. I've been looking at the Mackie Onyx series, and the Tascam Model 16-24. I want something that has analog options. I have a bunch of software, and a few DAWs, so I can make up for any sound quality issues for now. The A-B definitely made the R20 louder and brighter, but the 24 is good enough. Especially for the price that I paid. The main genre I'll be using it for is experimental ambient lofi type stuff. I'll be doing my post production in a daw.
Congratz! The R24 is a great machine, I used it for years. One convenient thing is it's a mixer when only connected to a USB cable. The R24 isn't.
Will the r-20 usb-c still work with a regular older blue usb computor with no usb-c connections Thanks great video !
If you have an adapter cable, it will work without problems.
My guess is that options were removed from the R20, as most people these days will work on a DAW on their computer. The days of working on, and mixing a track exclusively on a console like this are entirely dead, except for some vintage holdouts for niche reasons. Personally, I would want this device firstly an 8 input audio interface ($450) rivaling the Clarett+ Pre8 ($900) at half the cost. Not too mention the ability to portably record, say, drums at a different space, and then tote it home to put it on the DAW is exceptional. Therefore, the sound upgrade is really what counts most for modern users. I will almost always track "clean raw" recordings, and worry about editing afterward. The only reason I would need to change any effect or EQ while recording would be at the request of bettering a musician's recording process.
Thanks for your feedback!
All in all, you're totally right, "DAWless" recording and mixing is totally niche.
But even viewed from your angle, the design decisions made for this product are puzzling. They removed the battery compartment, but put a lot of work into the editor (track and sequence arranger), which is typical DAW stuff.
@@mr_floydst Agreed. I do like the colored visual elements which can help you see more clearly what you are recording, but the touchscreen aspect of it is above and beyond. I'm guessing we're just at that point where the tech is so cheap that they throw it on just cause they can.
The battery aspect wouldn't bother me as I will always be recording in some room with outlets, but yeah for people who do "live recordings" of nature/spaces, or man-on-the-street interviews/busking performances it would be a nice feature.
The biggest problem for me is the limitation of 8 inputs. Don't get me wrong it's great, but I do wish there was an ADAT input or some way of purchasing an expansion to be able to record 12 or 16 inputs at once. That is something it can't compete with the Clarett+ on.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
It's been a while since I last used one, so take my answer with a pinch of salt:
1) Yes, that's possible. You can set up multiple drum tracks.
2) That's possible as well, but you'll lose an audio track for each drum sample (Bass Drum=Track 1, Snare=2, and so on)
@@mr_floydst ok cool so kick track 1, snare track 2, hi hats 3, my voice 4 (only 5 tracks simultaneously on r24 or 8 tracks simultaneously?). Wow I feel dumb now I bought r16 I should bought r24 to have drums smh
Both recorders can record 8 tracks at a time, and play back their respective number of tracks simultaneously (16 and 24)
@@mr_floydst ok
I just had the idea to use my R24 with cubasis 3 on the i pad.
I wonder if that might work....
That would be really cool!
This should work fine. If you try it, please tell me if you can record 8 tracks at once over USB.
@@mr_floydst I record 8 tracks from R24 to Reaper via usb daily here;)
@@renethomsen1271 Thanks for the info!
I've had the R16 for almost 10 years with zero issues and thousands of hours of use. Problem?
It doesn't have cut and paste editing.
Does the R24 have C/P?
I'm not getting into DAW's, so the R20 was looking tempting.
It clearly sounds great.
Is it possible the R24 has lost audio quality from hours of use? Is that even possible with digital recording?
Thanks for watching! No, the R24 is just like the R16, but with 8 more tracks and a drum computer added.
The R20 does have copy&paste.
Well, degrading solder joints might influence sound quality, but it's highly unlikely (you had to put physical stress on the audio plugs to degrade the joints).
Unless there's some bad capacitors inside the unit, there's nothing that could degrade the sound this way in a modern digital audio device. The only other option I can think of is change in preamp stage design, the old unit might have had a lower threshold frequency in the filter.
I want to plug all my instruments into these devices so I can get more inputs for live performances throught my harbinger pa system is it possible to do that ? Trying to use it as a mixer as well for my live performances
@@strangesevin a friend of mine just bought a used r24 to record a 4 hour event. He ran two mics and two guitars into the r24 and then we ran a balanced line out into my Yamaha mg10xu. We panned the mg10xu to one stereo channel and used that for the master and monitor volume. Basically the monitor volume was the important part of that setup to be able to control that or I'm assuming we could have went without the mixer.
Hope that helps your question.
gain knobs and faders can go after a while in turn degrading your input sound quality.
Very nice Video. If you import a midi file that has tempo changes, will those tempo changes get imported to the R20?
Thanks
Hi, I've just tested this - and no, that does not work, unfortunately.
@@mr_floydst Thanks for checking, not a deal breaker. I have ordered an R20 as I am intrigued by it.
Well done, very useful 👏
Thanks for watching!
Floyd, what is "EOX" you were referring to? Is it the high end cut on older models, making the R20 much better in the high frequency? Much thanks - Brian
Hi Brian, can you please tell me the minute and second mark you're referring to?
ah, hahahahaha - I found it. well well, the youtube bot obviously didn't want to write what I said into the subtitles. haha :-) I'll put in the correct word later.
@@mr_floydst at 10:55 :)
@@brianvassallomusic I used somewhat colorful language there, referring to stuffed ears that can be cleared in one way or another. :)
@@mr_floydst :). On another note, I am wondering if there is a hardware sequencer that can load any of my AU VST plugin instruments and effects on it, or a hosting machine, to avoid the need of switching on my computer every time. Does the MPC do this?
I own the zoom 24. The only thing I don't like about it is that ts not possible to record an acoustic guitar from one one input onto two or three trax simultaneously. So I end up using tascam dp24. Al though I like zooom and find it much more user friendly than the tascam. Is the R20 any better. Can you record from one input onto more than one track?
Hi, thanks for watching - there is no input routing on the R20. Track 1 is always track 1 and so on. You could of course just arm 2 or 3 tracks but I guess you want exactly the same track on all of them...
no......generally I pan and eq all the tracks differently. But the point is that I can play with the effects and plan my final sound before recording through that one input. Geenerally if I use the zoom I have to make a basic track, bounce it onto two other trax. Then I make what i can adding reverb, panning, eq etc.. Obviously it better to use as many trx as you like, sculpt your sound before playing a note. The tascam lets you do that, but oh what a complicated mess the tascam multi functional controls are!
@@mr_floydst
What happens if we push the R24 signal with an external preamp, can it improve the sound quality?
I think I'd try eq'ing the recordings first. The R24 captures all the frequencies, but perhaps some more than others (same might be true for the R20).
Great video. Interesting how even after normalization the R24 sounds way quieter. If you just rendered without using any mastering algorithm in both units, I can only assume that the pre-amps are much better and cleaner in the R20.
Thanks for watching! That's what I assume as well (and I use the R20 a lot, it sounds notably better to me). I didn't use mastering effects.
@@mr_floydst I wonder if you ran a volume analyzer on those two recordings, whether the R20 might be compressing and putting out a higher intermediate LUFS signal - I really hear it as being louder, especially in the first example... after all, normalizing only makes the peaks sit at 0dB, there could still be more "loudness"... part of it could be difference in EQ too (older one could be less high frequency response).
For me, the synthwave sounded most different - but if I turn by headphones up one notch on my laptop, it sounds just as loud as the R20, and then it (the R24) actually has more weight and sounds better in terms of bass and kick response. The middle track sounded almost exactly the same to me (and not too much bass in that one)... the rock one had a notable difference, once again, in the bass... so i do feel like there's some EQ in the inputs/preamps, at least, which could affect loudness also. :) Anyway, they're cool devices... I really enjoyed hooking up the R24 to multiple-out drum machines, jamming around for 10 minutes, then playing it back and having that immediate control of volume to "DJ" the levels a bit...
@@boothbuster You could very well be right in your assessment - as I said in the video, I'm not an audio engineer but merely a hobbyist. So that's why I showed how I leveled those recordings, so people that are more knowledgable than me can draw the right conclusions. :-)
@@mr_floydst no doubt! At least you were honest and you did match pretty closely… wayyy too many folks out there are comparing audio gear 10X the price and simply not level matching… makes me cry every time someone engages some expensive gear and is very excited but also the level is at least a solid 4 dB louder… :) thanks for making these, really enjoyed your RS7000 one. (I got one after watching your video but never get to really play with it… but will keep it as a collector’s item anyway, and hopefully spend more time eventually for fun.)
There is definitely a noticeable difference in audio recording between the two.
Question(s): What sample rate did you record each at? If you bumped up the sample rate on the R24 then would it sound more clear like the R20?
Great video by the way!
Thanks! Both were set to 24bit 44.1khz.
I notice that the R20 has the preamps set at a higher gain than the r24. I guess the R20 must be better if no external preamps are going to be used. It will give a cleaner sound, with less noise. To be used with certain mics, the r20 might be better. Is that so?
you must have superhuman timing if you record the tracks separately without midi timing. well good for analog guitar and voice, can you imagine, hitting the play on time and each and every time sliding the tracks to the almost maybe good start position? when I hit play on such a device, then it must start and play the midi master clock to every device that plays. only that way you can build up music.
For my part, you're running into open doors with your assessment. :-) It's really strange they didn't include MIDI sync now they even have a MIDI port.
Great 👍👍 Professional video..I may pick the R20 up
Thanks for watching!
Hello Floyd! Amatőr zenész vagyok, gitáron játszom. Az r20- at arra szeretném használni, hogy az egyik sávra dobot tennék, ami van is benne. Erre rágitároznék, majd szintetizátorral játszanék basszust és dallamot. Végül ezt a 4 sávot szeretném szerkeszteni PC nélkül és a végén egy zenét készíteni belőle. Vagy a szerkesztéshez mindenképpen kell Pc-t használnom például Audacity-t. A Zomm r20 alkalmas erre vagy inkább a Zomm r8-at próbáljam. Az még olcsóbb is. Előre köszönöm válaszodat! Rob
Hi! The R20 can do that, and the R8 as well. Difference is the R8 can only record one stereo track simultaneously while the R20 can do 4 stereo tracks simultaneously.
@@mr_floydst
Szia! Köszönöm a gyors válaszodat!
A Pc használatát el tudom kerülni az érintő képernyő használatával? Vagy ha sok az utómunka, akkor mindenképpen kell számítógépet használnom? Jelenleg az Audacity-re szoktam feljátszani a sávokat és ott rendezem össze a végső zenét. De ez sokszor elég idő igényes. Többet kell olykor szerkesztenem, mint amennyi időt a zenélés igénybe vesz. 😀
On both recorders, you can fully mix and produce a song. All the tools you need are there. You can also Transfer your tracks to a PC for further editing.
@@mr_floydst
Ismét köszönöm a gyors választ!
Az r8 jóval olcsóbb és sok embernek nem tetszik az r20, de én azt gondolom még is az r20-at választom. Szerintem sokkal modernebb és jobban tudok, majd dolgozni vele. Remélem beválik majd.
Jó zenélést kívánok neked!
Can I just import a beat and record over it, I have an mpc one so I don’t need all those pads just looking for a portable recording device I can jam in my car with?
Yes, you can do that on both devices. They need to be in WAV format. Drop them onto a USB stick or SD card and you can assign them to one of the tracks then.
Have you looked at the tascam model 12? . It has midi clock sync. I was soooo mad because when they teased the r20 it said it had midi, but they just meant it was for the dumb synth track when it released. I literally had my zoom h8 for sale on reverb but canceled when I found out.
Hi, thanks for your suggestion! I'll take a look. :-)
These standalone multitrack units not having midi clock sync is a huge miss.
Wow. I was going to get an r24 but it's so tinny compared to the r20. So much more bass, roundness and clarity.
You can hear this most clearly on the "rock" take. The guitar was so bad in the r24 and so good on the r20.
That's my impression as well, but some of my viewers disagree, pointing out I didn't do the leveling correctly (which I describe in the video). But my daily impression is the thing I recorded is true and the R20 does sound better, and notably so.
@@mr_floydst Btw, how much compression do you find the preamps add (not the compression effect, just the preamps dry) when you're recording a touch sensitive instrument like guitar? I've sometimes had problems with some preamps with a too-compressed signal for some things like solo guitar pieces.
I never thought about that - I'll try it once I have a bit of time and report back ;)
thank you for the education you have given me, my question, i have zoom r24 I connect to my laptop is acceptable, after a while it strikes but if I connect it to another laptop with the same cable it accepts whats the problems?
Thanks for watching. I'm afraid I can't diagnose the problem from afar - the first thing I'd try is to exchange the USB cable. Also, check for error messages on your computer: www.alphr.com/windows-10-error-log-how-to-access-error-logs/
Good video! 👍 MIDI sync is a big omission 🙄. I'm still using my ancient Korg D1600 multitracker (I don't like the Audio Tracks on the MPC One so the D1600 handles that) but I keep my eyes open in case the Korg dies. I need to be able to sync both units.
Thanks! Yep, audio tracks on MPC One are a bit so-so. It's great they're there but it's not great they get cut off at the end of a pattern.
@@mr_floydst Yes, that is really annoying. Also things get very confusing if you copy a sequence that has audio tracks - I tried to do some experiments to figure it out but gave up. Mostly I use the sampler for audio tracks and chop them up so I can trigger them.
Very nice video!
I have a question: R24 has the genius feature that you can use the metronome track only on phones output, and it can be any audio track you have on SDcard (metronome with your voice or any other sound for example); does the R20 have the same function?
On R20, can I play a backing track wav on main out L+R and simultaneously other audio track as a metronome on the separated phones output?
Thanks so much
Hi! While the metronome can still be routed to the Headphones only if needed, you can't choose your own sound anymore.
@@mr_floydst Thank you for your answer!
Thank you ! Are the pre amps really better on the r 20 ????
I'd say yes. But I sold the R24, so I can't do a frequency sweep to prove it.
Will the R20's xlr inputs accept line level, or is it just the two combi inputs that would accept line level signals, I like how the R16 and R24 have 8 combi inputs, and now wondering if the R20 can handle 8 line level input signals, using quarter inch to xlr cables connected to the 6 inputs that are xlr only, or are those 6 xlr inputs mic level only?
Hi, you can use live level devices on all the inputs. It's just you need an adapter for most of them, as you already said.
@@mr_floydst Great, thanks for your reply.
@@mr_floydst Thanks for your reply, overall since you've used both the R24 and R20, what one would you chose if you could only buy one of them?
@@KeltyVince I've decided to keep the R20 despite its many downgrades. To me, it clearly sounds better (despite many of my viewers claiming the opposite ;-) ) and the touch screen makes editing *possible* (I know it's possible on the R24, too, but I never really edited on the R24 because of it's "mechanical" interface).
But don't take my word for it. Best is to try both and see what's best for you. R24 also received some price cuts.
@@mr_floydst I haven't really got the option to try them both without ordering them both and sending one back, to much trouble for me, I'm not to fussy about editing in the recorder as I also use Reaper, so would just export the tracks to that for final edits etc, I wonder what AD converters are best in these machines, the R20 seems to sound better, but if both are used just for recording, do the individual tracks sound better when played back in the DAW, or is it the output of the R20 that's better than the R24, as in the DA is better in the R20, or both the AD and DA are better in the R20?, sorry if this is asking to much, but I'd rather have the R24 if it's exported tracks sounded just as good as the R20's exported tracks, the battery operation being one of the main reasons for preferring the R24.
Nice video floyd...... Sooo zoom is probably waiting a bit to release an updated 24
That's not unlikely. (Though their social media team didn't know anything about that ;-) )
Is the audio quality on the R20 truly exceptional, or is the audio on the older unit just trash? Because that is a night and day difference over my speakers. But I don’t want to buy an R20 just based on the low quality sound of the R24 if the Tascam DP sounds just as good.
Well, I'm just a hobby producer and not a professional audio engineer, but to my ears, the R20 sounds notably better than the R24. Some of my viewers strongly disagree, but I had both machines side by side for a week or so and the R20 always sounded better, more dynamic and clear.
The R24 was pretty good, I had both Boss BR-80 and Tascam DP-006 which were clearly inferior to the R24.
@@mr_floydst if someone can’t hear the difference, they must not be using decent speakers. I’m coming from an Akai DPS 16 that is breaking down, and I’m frustrated by the lack of s/pdif on all of the new machines and most of the audio interfaces out now. Not to mention 5 pin MIDI
I'm very disappointed in the R20, ended up returning it. Zoom literally removed all of the features that I relied on the most, and the R20 is completely unusable for the style of music I do while the R24 was manageable for it.
Thanks for watching! Totally understandable. I'm a bit puzzled why they removed all that good stuff.
@@mr_floydst I think the biggest loss for me was the inability to setup variable time signatures in the same song. The R24 was able to accommodate time signature changes, and I write mostly prog. I think they could at least add that in a firmware update if they were willing
I'm searching for a device for backingtracks in live situations.
Just need 4 Stereo tracks which should be easily to handle live.
I don't need it to record instruments, only for playbacks.
I had the R8 and this had a Setlist mode which was useful but I didn't liked the menu and how to handle.
I heard the r20 hasn't a Setlist mode but what if I just load all songs successively? Is it possible to set tempo changes in between and is it possible that a songs stops so I just press start for the next song?
Hi, thanks for watching! I don't think the R20 will do that the way you intend. I think you should take a look at MPC One.
Hi Floyd,
can you tell if it is possible add use an insert stereo effect in the R20? For example use a Stereo Spreader on a Stereo Drum Track? Are the insert effects only mono?
Hi!
You can use send effects on synth tracks (and the drum synth is one of those).
Those effects are a selection of both stereo and mono effects. Some nice ones among them, e.g. tape delay and some of the reverbs. You can create some cool effects by chaining them.
@@mr_floydst From what I understand, there are send effects (in track settings (likely for reverb and delays)) but also insert effects (taping a track number and then taping the effect icon in the control bar ( next to the tempo) ). Can these insert effects be used on stereo audio tracks?
The insert effects can be used on stereo audio tracks and I can confirm some of them are true stereo (hard panning your instrument right will result in ... well... a hard right panned instrument with e.g. the delay or reverb in full stereo)
@@mr_floydst Good news! Thank you for the clarification Floyd.
They ported some of the features to the L series recorder.
Wow - R24 so much like my old MRS-8 - think I'll keep it.
There's no wrong with that. :-)
I have owned 2 r24s,and now own a r 20. I am considering selling the r 20 and going back to the r 24. The r20 is not switchable from 16bit 44k to 24 bit 44k. It is fixed to 24 bit 44 k. This is a problem for me because I have lots of audio from other sources I would like to drop into the r20 but all of the other audio is either 16/44 or 24/48 sampling rates. The R20 will only let you insert the outside audio clips if it is 24bit 44k! ....A note on trying to sync 2 r24s. They don't actually syc together. Although you can set on as the master and the other as the slave,there is no actual time code that they can completely sync to. They are always slightly out of time with each other.
Thanks for watching! I think it might be worth returning to the R20 once some firmware updates have been made (if they ever come). At the moment, moving from the R24 to the R20 is really a step down in everything but audio quality.
Convert the audio clips to 24 bit in Reaper or a DAW....
@@mr_floydst Sounds like a HUGE step up from my Tascam dp03sd though.
@@chrisw5742 Yes indeed. The R20, if viewed as what it is, is great. But seeing all the things they removed is a bit disappointing.
On r24 can you record the hi hat in track 4 the kick button track 1 snare track 3 etc? Or does drums buttons under each line only record In 1 track? And can I replace the preset drums with my own
So I understand correctly the r24 has mastering capabilities and the r24 doesn't? Is there a way to master the tracks on the zoom r20?
There are compressors, EQs and limiters in the R20, so you _can_ master your tracks - but there are no handy presets, and some of the R24s effects are absent (stereo enhancer comes to mind)
I wish that they had design the R20 with individual channel out so that it can be use for Live performance especially better output level control for individual drum audio imported parts (example, like audio wav output from Superior Drummer).
That would be cool indeed.
hello sir thanks for the video .is it posible to connect the R24 with R20 via the usb ?
as the R 24 could be synched to other R24
Hi, thanks for watching! I'm afraid that isn't possible.
The r24 with pair better with my retro mpc one is why I’m leaning towards that look
Ok, that's a perfectly valid reason. (plus you get 8 more tracks and the mastering effects)
@@mr_floydst I don’t wanna start a beat from scratch, just import a beat I already made and record over it can I do that if I can get the r24 for like 250, here’s what I came to, Zoom r24, tascam model 12 or tascam 008ex?
The R24 can do that. Just drag your track into the project folder while the R24 is acting as an SD card reader. Then disconnect, create a new project, import your MPC beat into one of the tracks and use all the other tracks to record additional stuff.
I tried Tascam in the past, and their way of handling external files and file export is hugely annoying. On ZOOM devices, you can access all the WAV files directly without needed to run a painfully slow rendering process.
Very well made video!
Thanks for watching!
Is it possible to use fade in/fade out automation in the r20?
Hi, thanks for watching - no, there's no way to do that.
I love my r20, but I wish the buttons WEREN’T clicky. Why? Upon stopping a vocal segment, I have to delete the button click from every vocal track.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! Oh, ok. for some reason, that didn't happen to me so far, but my microphone is a little bit further away from the R20.
@@mr_floydst Ah:) It’s actually a great mixer. I’ve finally competed an album with it which is ready for mixdown.
Hi I watched your video and I find it very interesting. I have a problem, I bought the r16 together with 4 mic beringher: sl75c, ba19a, b5 panoramic .. only that both the speaker and the panoramas want the panthom present only on channel 5 and 6. How can I solve the problem and connect my second panoramic? thanks in advance for your attention
Hi! The R16 has phantom power on input 5&6 only. To use a third phantom powered mic, you need an external amp. Those are relatively cheap, for example, I'm using the Behringer Tube Ultra Gain 100, but there are lot of other models out there.
@@mr_floydst hi you have been very kind, so by connecting this device to my normal r16 input (no phantom input) I connect my third condenser microphone to the device and so I have my third phantom channel?
@@mircosapienza3738 Yes, that's what it does. Plus you get a tube amp! ;-) See Woody's video on this: ruclips.net/video/joNM5No1Ef8/видео.html
@@mr_floydst
thank you very much you were super
Really wish they'd update the R24 with class compliant usb Midi so that we could sync external midi gear to it Dawlessly. Seems such a no brainer.
I really wonder why they don't do that.
Hi, the Zoom R24 can do the same functions as a multitrack just like the Model 12 tascam with the Mpc one?
Hi, basically, you can use the R24 as an audio interface for MPC One. But I couldn't get it to capture more than 2 audio tracks at once, but maybe that's just me. Perhaps some of my viewers can share their experiences?
@@mr_floydst which MPC update did you use? Friend
Hm, I'm not sure, I tried this in December last year, so it must have been 2.10 or even the version before that.
I'm trying to use the r20 to create a loop and then export that WAV into a computer to be uploaded to a roland spd sx, where it will be triggered and looped for live performance. Is it possible to set loops out of the parameters of the timing of the r20's internal sequencer or must loops be "snapped" to the timing of the sequencer?
Hi, thanks for watching. I hope I got your question right. In the project settings, you can turn off "snapping". All parts you create can then have any length and repeated regardless of the time measurement your project has.
@@mr_floydst yes! Thank you! That is exactly what I needed to know! Great video. 🔥🔥🔥
I think the R20's master track sounded "compressed", not more clear 🤔
I'm just a nerd posting RUclips videos, but I definitely did not apply compression algorithms to the recordings. I also suppose there's no "hidden compression" on the R20.
The R20 with a real, deep synth/rompler and of course 48,88 and 96 khz capability would really be something.
Yes, agreed. That would be quite something. :-)
Is it probable that the R20 will have a software update where you would be able to edit the sythersizor sounds?
That's really hard to tell. ZOOM do support their products, but mainly for bugfixes. Though they once totally re-invented their ARQ-96 with a firmware update.
@@mr_floydst Well as it is right now the R20 falls way short of what I need.
Nice video! I still rock my R8 💪
Thanks! The R8 is a nice gadget to have.
I just tested zoom r12 but when recording for example roland mc 307 it losing all that analog sound.
Thanks for watching! Not sure what to answer ;-)
I have the R16, its good, but i think im gonna upgrade to the r20, because it looks simpler to use and has better sound.
I think coming from the R16, this is an upgrade indeed.
Neither device has midi sync? I’m a bit confused maybe I missed it. That would be a dealbreaker for me
Hi, thanks for watching! Yes, that's correct, they don't have MIDI sync. It could easily be added on the R20, but so far, it wasn't.