Enfield Rifles especially #4Mk 1's from WW2 were all made with over sized chambers. This was done so that ammo loaded any where in the Empire would fit and fire. The other side of this was that the shoulder of the cases were fire formed to the new shoulder profile of that rifle when fired. This was of no consequence to the Military as they were not going to shoot Reloads. The operative point was to have ammo that would chamber and fire no matter where it was made. When you Full Length Size these cases the shoulder is pushed back to the original Factory Loaded position, Then when fired again it stretches the case again. Most cases done this way will separate after 1-2 reloads. Neck sizing eliminates this problem, and the best tool for that job is the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die $10-15. This die squeezes the neck of the case down onto a Mandrel as opposed to shoving it into a hole and then withdrawing it which stretches the case neck and will require trimming. One should note that most of the cartridges designed during this time period (1890 ish) had rims and were head spaced on the rim and will do the same thing as the Enfield case if F/L sized. This includes .30-40 Krag, 7.62x54R Russian. .303 Savage and other similar cases. This all works just fine with Bolt Action rifles that have significant mechanical advantage when closing the bolt. Lever Action Guns may require Setting the shoulder back a few .000 every so often so that the action will close and go fully into battery. You would adjust your F/L die to where it just contacts the shoulder and then screw it in Slightly More. Maybe 1/8 turn or less. None of this is new, and has been known about for decades. Hope this helps with understanding this issue.
I shot rifle and pistol n the 80'&90's and reloaded all my ammunition. I never put one round of commercial ammo through any of my guns. The only calibre I has in two different rifles was the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser and I interchanged ammo in those two guns, but they both were of the same date and weapons that appeared to have only had their proof rounds through them before being greased up to go to the Swedish arsenals. The bores and chambers were mint, and I say mint because I cast both chambers and bores and measured them with a micrometer and they were well within spec from given documentation available. My 303 was a number 4 Mk 1 * if 1954 vintage from RAF storage and that had a near mint bore too. In fact the bore was a little tight, and I found it shot better using Israeli 7.62 bullets ( which were nice and cheap compared with the Sierra ones I started using. ) I used the 7.62 primer punch from my .308 Win set of dies instead of the .303" one( the primer punch on the way out re-sizes the neck band after being crimped hard on way down) and that produced a very competitive rifle in club competitions. I bought brand new Norma brass originally, it wasn't cheap by any means, but unlike this video I got around 18 or 19 reloads out of it without one case separation nor even any sign of separation before I gave up shooting when the handgun ban came in here in the UL in 1997. And also I always fully sized the brass not just neck sized. This just goes to show the quality of Norma brass compared to other makes, given what this gentleman says about only neck sizing.
I got a broken case extracting tool and keep it in the stock when I go shooting, broken case, no longer an issue. I recommend get one, it’s cheap, no more pain.
A 303 case will usually stretch in the same place. This will form a ring inside the case about 1/4 inch up from the bottom. This ring is all but impossible to see. It can easily be felt. Take a piece of wire. Make a sharp 90 degree bend in it and cut it off 1/8 inch long making an L shape. Poke the wire down the case touching the case wall with the point of the wire and slide it down. If you can feel a ring around the inside then case head separation has begun. You decide to use or scrap. Bonne chance.
Good info! I fire form my 303s, and then neck size only, anneal shoulder and neck every 3-4 firings, if bolt close gets to difficult I will bump the shoulder back slightly, I also load very light loads with a .002 over groove dia. .313 hard cast gas checked bullet moving at 1850fps (4227 powder) just for killing paper no need for 2400fps, plus case life is significantly longer and accuracy at 100 yards is great. I normally get 12-15 firings per case from a 1915 SMLE.
How do you "bump the shoulder back slightly" when you need too? Do you put a Full length sizing die into your press, and slowly/gently push the cartridge up into the die just enough until you feel enough resistance without pushing the ram all the way to the top and sending the brass all the way into the die?
@@willbartlett10 yes exactly, if the bolt close is too hard after a neck size, I will keep turning the full length size die down 1/8 -1/4 turn at a time untill the bolt just closes on the unloaded case with a slight resistance.
@@llkj7944 I have an 1899H (I think), 20inch lightweight barrel, breakdown... Do you know about the amount of free bore on this rifle? I need to get a OAL gauge to see how far out I can seat the bullet and still have it work in the magazine. Are you crimping your rounds?
@@willbartlett10 yes I crimp, use a Lee factory crimp die, sorry not sure about free bore on a 1899, In my Enfield I seat the bullets to magazine length, I have single loaded longer but didn't realy give me any more accracy.
Thanks for this, proud owner of a No4 MK2 that was FTRed in 55 (Fazakerley) and is in factory refurbished condition since the day I bought it at Big 5 in ‘96. I’m converting it into a T sniper variant even scored a couple of the wooden chests they were stored in. Only have half a box of ammo for it, Winchester made and it’s going in for the scope pads to be mounted. Other than installing the cheek rest it’s ready to go. Bore is pristine 5 groove rifling. Even scored NOS bayonets, sling, soft case and cleaning kit. Repro scope MK32 and proper Bren gun mount. I’m bulking up on all the videos I can find to learn the ins and outs.
@Majorrogerragland48 Recently I started using Berry's Plated 123 gr .311 (made for 7.62x39) over 20 grains of IMR SR4759 (now discontinued😡) as a light plinker. Unknown as to what I'll use when my supply runs out. Very accurate, kicks like a .32-20 Winchester.
@@steveh4962 My load is Missouri Bullets Co, Hi-tek .312 Diameter 167 Grain FP and 13 grains of Trailboss. sweet, mild and accrete shooting out @ 50 yards.
@Majorrogerragland48 More than one way to skin a cat: my other two are both from Accurate Molds. The 31-134D over 8 grs of Unique and the 31-180MB over 10 grs of Unique. Both molds were ordered with .314 diameter projectiles. Good cheap fun. The Maltby loves them both!
I am looking forward to loading for a No. 4 MK 1 I picked up at auction. I have heard all about the issues regarding sizing. I have a box of new Hornady brass. I will try the same trick I use with new belted mag brass. I neck it up one, maybe 2, cals until it won't chamber at all, then use a FL die to size it down slowly until the bolt closes with a hint of resistance. This eliminates the initial case stretch. This trick always works with belted mag brass, which can stretch as much as .020" on the first go 'round. We shall see. Thanks for the vid!
You must leave a follow-up comment on how this works. I've never worked with belted brass, at least not that I remember, but your method sounds interesting. I might give it a shot the next time I work some .303 brass to check it out for myself. Great comment!
@@luvtahandload7692 You're on exactly the right track. Most use a Lyman .33 caliber M die to expand the case neck, and then do as you explained and size down the neck a tiny bit at a time until the cases chamber with a crush fit when turning the bolt handle down. That leaves you with a false shoulder on the case neck. Now your cases headspace on the shoulder of the case, they are not dependent on the rim. First firing gives you the same fireformed brass without stretching that a benchrest shooter would get. Reloading after that, most use the Lee Collet die while others use a neck sizing die. Eventually you will have to bump the shoulder back a thou or two.
I've just gotten into reloading rifle ammo, starting with .303 British for my Enfield No.4 Mk1*, and I'm only neck sizing. I use a Lee rifle reloading kit, as it's about $50, and that beats the price of other loading methods by hundreds of dollars. It's slow, but you examine and handle every single round, and my results have been very impressive, getting solid performance and my accuracy has shrunk from 2" at 100 yards to 1.25" at 100 yards using the reloaded ammo! The Lee kit said good brass can last up to 100 reloads, but I've heard from most reloaders that 10-15 is more likely, but the main thing is to inspect your cases, and decide from there. Out of a batch of 30, I had one dud, which was odd as the primers I'm using are Winchester match grade large rifle primers, so it seems very odd it'd fail. The brass that one was in had never been fired, the primer was properly seated, the strike was good (looked like all the others), and when I got back home I pulled the bullet out and there was indeed powder inside, so no idea what that was about. Probably just a bad primer. Anyway, it's been a ton of fun, and your video has given me some more insight into reloading! Thank you, and good shooting!
Glad to hear that you got into reloading and for one of my favourite rifles at that! And happy to hear that you're seeing improved groups as a result, though 2" at 100 with factory is nothing to sneeze at with a rifle of that age. So well done on both counts! I will admit that I am not the biggest fan of neck sizing but it does extend the life of the brass and you ostensibly do have improved accuracy, though I'm a little dubious of that later claim. The top F class shooters in the world almost universally full-length size and they seem to do okay in the accuracy department, though I will grant we're comparing apples to oranges, ha ha.
If you want accuracy from your 303 look for, accurising your 303 or 10 steps to insanity, its all in one sentence and shows how to set up your 303, I've also used 123 fmj projectiles at 700yds with great success
i had 3 case head separations at the range today and it jumped the bolt up. Needless to say I put the rifle away and i am pulling all of my bullets and dumping the powder. I have an No4 Mk1 from '44. I am a bit ashamed to admit that I never thought about just resizing the neck. Should have been obvious to me when I was having a tough time resizing with my FL die. now I am sitting here with a pile of 303 brass checking for indicators of separation! Very informative video! thanks!
Set your FL die to kiss the shoulder or -.002". You can smoke the shoulder to check for contact. Or. Use the headspace gauge to compare fired case to sized case. A little at a time.
I might be at 8 shots for my brass. I inspect them all and toss anything with that line and even if I'm not sure I'll get a feeler to feel inside and toss even if I don't see the line but feel something inside. So far zero case head separations in over a year when I started doing that. I only neck size and only 2/3 of the way from the mouth so I have a second bottle neck to center the round in the chamber. Read that from someone else so not my invention. I picked up over 70 cases someone left at the range. Even the range master said maybe don't trust it. 100% of them were fine. They held primers tight and none had any signs of case head separation and so far still fire fine after maybe 4 shots. Even when I had case head separations it wasn't catastrophic. Just used the tool to extract it easily.
I got a couple more Enfields, this time an Indian No1 and a BSA No1. Both have varying chambers. I got my sizing die and wrote down how much I had to back off from all the way down to the shell holder so it was just enough to neck size and mildly resize. Hoping that doesn't eat up the brass too much. Maybe I can just neck size if they chamber fine. I had some genuine once fired PPU brass that a range master sold me so I trust him. When I tried to just use it, it was super snug to close the bolt. My BSA seems to have the snugest chamber which seems like it should have the best brass life. Does that sound right? Less working of the brass I'm thinking.@@TheRedneckPreppy
Sometimes the nomenclature of particular rifles gets run-over by history or lack of general knowledge. The SMLE - Short Magazine Lee- Enfield rifle is the mainstay of the Commonwealth. Here in Canada / USA - the manufacture of the Pattern 14 - Enfield was built at many facilities. These rifles [3 SMLE ] - from my slugs - run 0.312 to 0.316. My P14 - runs 0.312. I also have a Canadian Ross - which shoots the best. 0.311. The lockup of the SMLE and head space play havoc on brass - hence the reason for new brass - When I started to reload for my SMLE - 42 yrs ago. I wanted to prove something - how long would brass last. I started with Factory Win - 180gr. I had my hand loader with me - and I loaded all cartridges and fired them all again and again. 19 reloads is what I finally arrived at. But my loads were not Max - they were 300 or so off the Factory velocity. The Ross is a rotary bolt - so it requires very careful resizing, matched to the chamber as best you can. The P14 - is a Rear Bolt - Like the US P1917 and the A303. You can leave them a little long and the bolt will cam them home. I use to check the dimension just in front of the rim. For those that were bigger than the specs out of a good manual - could give you a read of how many Full load shots the brass had seen. I is a real pleasure to reload and on the range. I still have 5 rifles - I never saw much need to change away. They will take any North American game. Thank you Sir - I always learn some new things! Cheers.
Thanks!! I learned so much more from this video about my new SMLE addition to my collection. This puppy definitely needs more tender loving care compared to my other ones.
Certainly can come in useful for handloading ammunition for both Lee Enfields and Mosin Nagant M91/30s given both are a bit "infamous" for having bores of slightly varying size, though probably a good practice for any old rifle from that era.
The biggest thing I see that screws people up reloading for that caliber are always full length sizing and over working the brass. I reload for my SMLE and a #4 mk 1/2 and keep the brass sorted by specific firearm and bump the shoulder back a few thousands and use a collet die. Hornady makes a head spacecomparator kit that really comes in handy for those rimmed cartridges imo.
Ah! A voice of knowledge in the wilderness of trees! I fall into the ranks of both the competitors and cast bullet maniacs that start with new unprimed brass. I've found Privy Partisan best matches the case dimensions/volume of WWII Mark VII ball ammunition from Canada, Britain, and the Greek's very fine HXP ball ammunition (no longer available, sadly). The metallurgy is excellent in their brass as well. That done, we/I create a false shoulder on the neck so that the bolt closes with a light crush fit on the case. Looking at the location of the false shoulder on the case and how much further it is ahead of the factory shoulder demonstrates just how much 'extra space' there is at the front of the chamber when headspaced on the rim rather than now on the false shoulder. That's why the case stretching occurs that leads to early failure of the brass. Having done that, after firing case sizing is with the Lee Collet die you mention, and occasionally a quick shoulder bump of a few thou to maintain that light crush fit when chambering the rounds. I anneal the cases via hand held and an alcohol lamp pretty much every time, but not every time. It only takes about ten seconds or so until the case is uncomfortable to continue to hold, so it doesn't take much time to do it. I'm primarily doing this to continue case neck uniformity for accuracy when firing across the course as the range gets further out there, but of course it also helps minimize case failure. There are much spendier, more precise ways to anneal, but even with the very best WWII surplus rifles selected for competition, there is a point where the juice is not worth the squeeze. LE's are never going to be MOA capable rifles (or if they are, in 50 years of competitive shooting with them, I have never seen one that gets close to that). Bottom line is you can have a hell of a lot of fun with the LE for minimal cost reloading, whether just for tin can slaying or competition with either jacketed or cast bullets. And even hunting with either jacketed or cast, if you don't get lazy and just default to the fine factory hunting ammunition available out there.
PPU brass is good. HXP is better if you can get it as it was made for the UK Military to their spec. Lee Enfield's at least no 4s have swappable bolt heads to accommodate head space wear if you can find them. I seat bullets so they will fit in the mag. I only ever neck size my cases and have had few problems. A good point is not to use too much lube as this can dent the shoulder. I use 174g loaded to give service velocity so the sights work .
Thanks for this video. I had already thought of neck sizing to save brass life. Shooting low pressure with cast bullets will also help. Thats my plan. I was going to load for 3030 with a 312 lee mold but this throws a bit large. PC'd it was definitely too large. I chalked it up to experience and put the mold away. It was a hidden blessing. It'll go great for the enfield I came across some time back. Its a little light at 160gr as cast but should do well. I should be able to do 1800 to 2000fps depending on accuracy node. I got a little of the later "good times"of the cheap loading days.. I started in '90. I was getting a brick of primers for 15 on the low side, powder about the same and bullets a bit less (depending on type). Never would I have dreamed that we'd be where we are now. Every election I've learned to stock up a bit to weather the first year storm....this storm isn't stopping. Wish I'd have had more money to have stocked more back. About half the powders I normally use are either unobtainium or doubled in price. Unique was my go to on the "old girls". A GEW, my enfield and lighter loaded cast bullet stuff. I have a new to me model 95 7mm chilean that doesn't like the 139gr PPU at all....but I'm strapped for cash and cant afford dies or a bullet mold. My 8mm and enfield I'm glad to say I had stuff for already. Talked to a guy the other day who said he wanted to get into reloading. I smiled and told him he pretty much missed the boat for saving money at all but still offered my help as his "elmer" if needed.
Yeah, a lot has changed in reloading in terms of price and availability since I made this video, ha ha. Thanks for watching and best wishes going forward!
Interesting video. I would suggest that rifle owners inspect their brass carefully but the ring that often appears toward the back of the case body is normal as the "webbing" between the primer and powder is extremely thick. The stretching that can be observed is at the base of the powder compartment. I have 2 rifles chambered with the same basic case. A no1 mk III with basically unused barrel and also a sporterised .303/25 that was used for common vermin control. I am in the process of restoring the .25 to its former glory.
A great informative video. I just wanted to add that a lot of people will compare the fired brass with the brass on a loaded round. This can be quite startling. The amount that the cartridge stretches is often easily seen without measurement. They will pronounce that the rifle has excessive head space thinking that the shoulder of the case is the focus of head spacing when in reality it is the rim ot the case. I was told at some point in my life that the rifle is designed like this to insure feeding in dirty conditions. If you could comment on this I would be gratful as I am not sure it is true.
Your rifle almost certainly does not have "excess headspace". Nor do the vast majority of the rest of the Lee Enfield rifles whose owners complain they have "excess headspace". Just for poops and giggles, buy an inexpensive go/no-go gauge and test your rifle's chamber. The cartridge is INTENDED to headspace on the rim - ONCE. And a rim in the 1880's when the cartridge was designed was at least as importantly intended to give the extractor systems of the day something to grab on to, similar to the existing 30-30, which nobody complains has "excess headspace" issues. You would think that Americans (and others) would ask themselves why, supposedly, the British didn't realize they had a "headspace" issue in every single manufacturing facility making these rifles for over a century, and through three wars? 1888 all the way through the 1950's and beyond. Just kept making improperly cut chambers for decade after decade, and never noticed? Equally weird that most of these "excess headspace" rifles properly pass a go/no-go military gauge test - despite supposedly having "excess headspace"? Military gun plumbers never noticed that in doing first line maintenance on these rifles for all that time You would almost start to think like maybe there is nothing 'excess' about the chambers: they are cut just as they were intended to be: for use in war, not as a source of brass for collectors decades later. In fact, almost like they intended chambers larger then reloaders desire so that ball ammunition manufactured to spec but covered in mud, corrosion, etc will reliably chamber rather than jam the rifle during a battle. Who'd a thunk it!
excellent video i agree with the fire forming and neck sizing another thing i found when reloading not only the 303 but others as well that the norma cartridges are too soft and had many a wonderful time extracting broken cases from my dies even when only neck sizing but i did know about the several different sizes of 303 projectiles just not the slugging of the bore thanks for that tip
When I started reloading some 55 years ago I could reload a 30-06 round for about 7 cents. 1/2 a cent for the primer, 2 cents for the powder and about 5 cents for the bullet. The good old days. I was also buying surplus 30-06 rounds for $2 a box of 20. Mainly for the brass to reload for my Garand and ‘03 Springfield rifles. I prefer to use military brass in both.
Good quality brass (Remington and Federal) can be reloaded more times for my MKIII*. Seller & Bellot only twice (three total firings) Private Partisan (PPU) is unknown.
I do okay with the PPU -- 5-6 reloadings. I will agree with you that S&B is trash compared to other brass. Primer pockets that are *just* a little too small and brass that just seems to turn brittle by looking at it.
The head spacing on Brit 303s was notorious. A longer bold face can be used to tighten up the head spacing. A 308 diameter prohectile will rattle down the 311 bore and get the job to if you dont find 311 dia on the shelf.
December 2023. Speaking of excessive headspace and being wary of fired brass... when I was several decades younger, I was given the remains of a commercial ammunition box of .303 British soft point (hunting ammunition). It was the standard twenty round count box. Of those three or four (as I recall) were fired and the rest were unfired. All but one of the fired cases showed serious and quite pronounced signs of 'Incipient (meaning 'in progress') head separation. The one exception had ruptured radially around the case at that more or less five millimeter mark as mentioned. It was hanging together by a rather wide sliver on one side. All those warnings are real. Likely a case failing like that will stick much of the cartridge in the chamber. Usually it will not damage the rifle (other than exacerbate the already questionable chamber issue) but is quite likely to send a puff of extremely hot gas - burning powder gas - rather close to the shooter's face. At best, not pleasant. I am a 'fan' of the cartridge and the rifles. I have two of the first world war examples (my specific interest) the Mark 1 type, and a Ruger No 1 falling block rifle in the same caliber. (Which does not have the same headspace problem.)
Oh the note of the case head separation. If the rifle is the only one you have and it has been forming that little ridge after the second firing. Is that too high a powder load or is it a rifle issue that only shows itself then?
Back in the late 50s my uncle bought a new in the wrap .303 jungle carbine for $17 and a 55 gallon drum of surplus ammo fo $25 . Needless to say he shot that rifle a lot and loved it.
Thanks very much for the compliment, very much appreciated. Few hobbies better than reloading -- it teaches precision, care, patience and the end result is satisfying when you finally get it right!
@@no.4mk126 I've been alive long enough to know that *nothing* is impossible but heavy proof is required for extra ordinary claims. Heck, even people who neck-size and anneal their .303 B don't claim more than 10-12 reloads on the high end.
Excellent video and info, one of my Enfields definitely has a head space issue. Glad to know it’s a common problem with these rifles, Thanks for share!
I have a no1 mk3* that will shoot a 1.5 inch at 100 with 125gr flat base hand loads. I tried ppu 150gr and s and b 150gn factory loads and the group's grow to 4 inches. I'm going to try hand loading some .312 hornady 150gr flat base. Any thoughts?
My first thought is why not stick with the 125gn bullets? Getting 1.5 inches out of a Lee Enfield at 100 yards is pretty good -- unless you're developing the 150gn for hunting (which I would go to 174gn). That said, what and how much powder did you go with 150gn?
@@TheRedneckPreppy still waiting on some new brass but I was thinking imr 4895 at about 38-40gr with the 150gr hornady .it is for hunting fallow deer . I also have 8208 . I spent a lot of time getting the stock fitting correctly and bedding 150mm of barrel , it's an H barrel . It's been sporterized before I got it . I have never owned a rifle that is that erratic with projectiles. Especially one designed for heavier pills.
when i reloaded any cal i only reloaded 3 times per case and of course inspected each case before and after each reload especially 2nd and 3rd reload , was always super careful and same rule for resized cases
Pakistani, Indian, Egyptian, and Iraqi military loaded .303 surplus ammunition I tend to save them and bring them to recycling centers so what ever money I could get for just the brass alone and buy .303 reloadable brass online. The foreign military .303 are made of lesser quality brass and used only for combat and training. The British Radway Green are of quality but they are of the military Berdan primed case. Good luck punching those Berdan primed cases.
Interesting. I have a .303 BR and Mosin 7.62x54R. I really like those rifles but never thought it was practical for me to reload for those particular rifles. I don’t shoot them very often. I keep plenty of ammo around for them. I just let people shoot them that never had a chance to shoot old surplus rifles. I did a lot of research on them. Ya. Those rifles were often retooled by what ever military group had them in service. They marked the rifles when they retooled them so those marks can be researched.
There are different numbered bolt heads for the enfield. I used to have enfield sand my friend had one enfield and his shells were swollen after shooting and he took it the gunsmith and the gunsmith put a different numbered bolt head and eliminated the case stretch
If it took the next larger bolt bolt head, then that rifle had an ACTUAL headspace problem, versus the MYTHICAL "excess headspace" problem so many Americans lacking the national corporate knowledge of the Lee Enfield rifle post and talk about. Who would believe that Commonwealth arsenals didn't realize they were making millions of rifles with excess headspace over a century and WWI, WWII, Korea, etc? Only now have Americans discovered their error? I say that because you don't hear Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, etc talking and posting about "excess headspace in these rifles" as they compete in service rifle matches with these very same surplus rifles. The deliberately large cut chambers are not an issue for the vast majority of Lee Enfield owners who head out with commercial ammunition to whack a moose, elk, deer, etc. Canada for one is full of them, and they aren't going to bother reloading for the number of rounds they fire out of their rifle every year. The fired brass will be left laying on the ground. For handloaders... if they want best brass life and the best results, success demands learning how to properly prepare the cases prior to reloading them.
I definitely notice a difference from when I'm using brass from companies like Lapua or Norma compared to when I'm using stuff from Winchester, PPU, S&B, etc. I have some Norma brass I've been using for years. Having said that, if you are using premium brass like Lapua, you're almost obligated to neck-size and anneal that brass to stretch out the life of it as long as possible. So that extra expense of the brass is added onto. All that said, I tend to use cheaper brass because I can't be bothered enough to anneal or neck-size.
Just watch your video.I wonder if you could tell me how you would measure head space. How does the head space get out of wack? What is the proper head space if it is measureable?
In 99% of the LE's out there, the mythical "headspace" issue does not exist. What you have is the large chamber the Commonwealth arsenals DELIBERATELY cut to deal with less than pristine ammunition in muddy trenches, fetid colonial jungles, etc. Oddly enough, it is mostly Americans who bring up the "excess headspace" issue - probably because they're one-offs who don't have the benefit of 130 years of national corporate knowledge with the rifle both inside and outside their armed forces. You won't hear Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, South Africans, etc at a service rifle or similar match talking about "excess headspace". Almost every single surplus LE decomissioned for release to the civilian market had a final inspection by the gun plumbers while on it's way out the door. It was the good ol' days, but that didn't mean they didn't take some measures to ensure a potentially dangerous rifle didn't get out the door. Unless your bolt head is numbered as a "3", then you're almost certainly good. A "3" is a rifle barrel on it's last legs: the bolt head sizes go from "0" to "3". Once a "3" fails the headspace test, there are no bigger bolt heads to replace it with. There are several methods used to get more life out of a barrel failing with a "3" bolt head i.e. shimming the bolt face, but very few owners will find themselves in this situation. BTW, rifles didn't leave the arsenals brand new, all with "0" bolt heads installed; many left with a "1" and I have seen a few that left with a "2" in place. The arsenals knew that there would be gun plumbers where the rifles went, and those gun plumbers would be doing first line inspections of the rifles at least once a year along with the rest of the weapons. When the gun plumbers decided a rifle was out of spec, it went back to an arsenal for FTR before being returned/re-issued. To find out if you do indeed have excess headspace, lay your hands on a go/no-go gauge, preferably a Field version of the gauge, but any will do. If it fails the no-go test, install the next size of bolt head: i.e. if your rifle currently has a bolt head marked "1", then buy and install a "2" and confirm with the gauge. The VAST majority of "excess headspace" issues (with accompanying early brass failure) are dealt with by properly preparing new brass before first firing. And alternately, properly resizing brass after it has been fire formed by being fired in your rifle's chamber. He makes some references to some ways of doing that. Best of the LE world: Buy new unprimed brass, Privy Partisan measures up as being closest to WWII Mark VII ball ammunition cases by dimension and the brass itself is of excellent quality. Graf's regularly has it for sale in bags of 50. Having done that, use a Lyman Lee M die (.33 caliber) to slightly increase the caliber of the case necks. Then gradually run those prepared cases into a full length resizing die in small increments, until the bolt will close on the case with a slight crush fit. As you do this, you will see a small 'false shoulder' forming and moving down the neck as you increase the amount the case is pushed into the full length die. When the bolt will finally close, the case is no longer depending on the rim for headspacing, with the brass free to go in whatever direction it wants on firing - usually stretching forward into the space betweeen the case shoulder and the shoulder portion of the cut chamber. The case is now firmly held between the case head in contact with the bolt face at the rear and the false shoulder in contact with the shoulder portion of the chamber. The case can now no longer stretch/flow forward, it can only expand out radially to contact the chamber. Even if your rifle DOES have real excess headspace, at the very least this addresses it by fitting the brass to the chamber, rather than using a larger bolt head to shorten an overly long chamber. Not the ideal way of dealing with needing a larger bolt head, but it addresses it.
I don't get fancy with that to be honest with you. I usually go by the recommendations from the bullet manufacturer. My results are fine enough -- they're old rifles, I'm not going to fine tune a load to less than their capable of by manipulating every variable I can so I rarely mess around with seating depth. At least I have no recollection of doing so with .303 British.
Well, it's not *impossible* to convert Berdan primer brass, but I don't really see the point to it. Seems like more trouble than it's worth -- at least these days, ha ha
I tend towards 174 grain round nose from Hornady (#3130) but I've also used PPU's 174 gn FMJ BT (B-143). I haven't been able to find the PPUs lately in my neck of the woods though. I've been mulling over trying out Speer bullets but I don't think they make a 174 so I'm still playing around with GRT to see where I might want to start.
Just seeing this today 10/27/23. I have experienced case separation the day before Deer hunting Season. I used a 410 gauge cleaning brush to remove the stuck case . Recently I bought some Herters 303 British ammo at my local Cabela's it's marked made in the USA . I haven't been to the range to try it have you used it if so how were the groups?
@@TheRedneckPreppy It amazing that some type of Ammunition aren't available in parts of the country. I always wanted to try Gorilla 🦍🦍🦍 brand Ammo can't be found locally. Maybe online..
The british made a rifle with a rim , to avoid head stock issues. The cartridge sealed at the rear. They didn't care about reloading as they had an empire any of whom could use these rifles against them. The rifles leaving the factory had to place five out of five rounds into a five inch circle at 200 yards. In fact that was where the rifled was zeroed to. They used Berdan primers to make reloading difficult. Gave FTR rifles to guerrilla fighters . This was so the rifles would be worn out at wars end. They are far more cunning than they were ever given credit for.Each military round was spot on loading wise.
FTR rifles went straight back into the hands of British, Australian, Canadian, etc soldiers during the war. Hardly "guerrilla fighters". The whole point of FTR was to bring the rifle back to factory spec.
FTR rifles had a limited barrel life and the only ones i saw were issued to cadets. The ends were painted yellow. nMalay Guerillas were sent FTR rifles.@@AirborneMOC031
@@hardyakka6200 Why don't you go try selling your FTR BS over in the Milsurps forum where there are still British armourers hanging out and answering questions and providing advice to service rifle competitors from around the world? I'll go check in over there in a few days to see how you get on with trying to sell your BS over there. Ask for 'Peter Laidler' when you try to explain your imaginative version of LE history to former Lee Enfield armourers. The ENTIRE point of FTR was to bring the entire rifle back to arsenal specifications, not "just a limited barrel life rifle for guerilla and cadet use". Sometimes, rifles were FTR'd not for repair, but to UPGRADE the rifle with later improvements. Fazerkerly as one example FTR upgraded No.4 MkI to what were restamped as No.4 Mk1/2. Later, they FTR'd the No. 4 Mk I* to the improved and FTR re-stamped No. 4 Mk 1/3. Other arsenals i.e. BSA and Long Branch did the same thing. There are many FTR stamped rifles that are still in competition use around the world, and most of them will have just as many rounds still being put through them as many surplus rifles from WWI and WWII. Thus endeth today's lesson...
I'll be honest with you, I haven't. By odd coincidence I was just reading the development history of that rifle -- no mention of that kind of information.
@@TheRedneckPreppy Thanks for coming back to me. One of the nerds in our group has argued the original pressure was tonnes but was never clarified as short tonne or long tonne (ye olde english measurements). We seem to think it's low to mid 30k psi. It's worth noting as only number 4s can handle big pressure such as HPX (HXP?) machine gun ammo. Don;t blow up your collectors piece!
@@smudgepost I think that your estimation of probably fair. If I ever come across something like that I'll certainly come back to this comment and provide the information.
The cordite .303 round of the Lee/Medford day was 19.07 TSI (equal to 42,720 PSI, depending on the arsenal who manufactured and proof tested your rifle). This was later increased for later Mk.VII rounds to 20.71 TSI, equal to roughly 46,390 PSI (again, depending on what the arsenal who manufactured and proof tested the rifle stamped it as). That would be Imperial long tonnes, BTW - it is England, not the USA of that period. You will get very slightly different TSI numbers, depending on what source arsenal/country you get them from. Many surplus LE's had a different proof test (and accompanying stamp) prior to sold to export. Now throw in different countries i.e. the Aussies being the obstinate offspring of British criminals went their own way when proof testing the rifles they made of British pattern, versus British proof testing of British rifles. And throw in various arsenals doing slightly different testing than the next arsenal in the same country - or another country using the British testing method. The British testing system was completely different from the American/SAAMI method. Are you REALLY sure you want to go down the "what loading pressure..." rabbit hole? Collectors of the Lee Enfield variants regularly visit each other down that rabbit hole discussing that subject? I've followed them down that rabbit hole a few times; interesting, but didn't offer any useful information to my LE world. For those not so inflicted as the collectors, two things to keep in mind: 1. At various times in various places, No. 4 Mk1 rifles were rechambered to 7.62 NATO for use with 7.62 ball for both service rifle competition and alternately as sniper rifles for use in war. The ones you are most likely to see on the surplus market are the Canadian DCRA conversions for competition. Obviously not a Medford, but when the No. 4 rifle can pass 7.62 proof for such use, you're not likely to have a pressure problem unless you do something that was clearly stupid, even in the Medford prior to it's No.4 Mk1 offspring. 2. There is no commercial ammunition nor published reloading data out there that will exceed the pressure limitations of even the earliest of Lee rifles out there, including the Metford. I doubt there are many LE affectionados out there attempting to create Rhino Roller loads for hunting or whatever - and those guys are probably going to start by rechambering to one of Elwood Epps' wildcat chamberings.
I fired new s&b rounds, then reloaded only neck sized and it seams the cases have expanded so much their getting stuck in the magazine, if I only load 5 they feed most of the time but any more than that the bolt won't strip the next round without smacking it. Help
Without being there to look for myself it seems like you have more of a magazine issue than anything else. I assume you were able to load 10 rounds in the magazine without issue when you were shooting factory fresh S&B? Brass does expand somewhat depending on your chamber but it would be implausible that it would cause magazine feed issues even if only neck sizing.
Even now I can load 10 new rounds no problem, the neck sized ones just don't want to strip off the top of the mag and load, its like their binding in the mag, oal
@@larrymuffett7127 I have to say that is weird, I can't say that I've bumped into that issue. And you have no problem going with 10 rounds of factory in your magazine?
That's correct, factory ppu cycle perfect. But on the neck sized s&b the bolt doesn't want to strip especially the rounds on the right side, the bolt rides just over the top and doesn't feed. If I smack it they almost always feed the second try. I must also mention this is just dry cycling, not firing. The jolt from firing may make them feed. But certainly can't do the short stroke unloading. I really think it's the fire forming making the rounds fatter. I must have a big chamber, the gun shots very good. It's a no4mark1* long branch
Only company recently that I'm aware of that sold a conversion kit for Lee Enfields was Numrich but it doesn't appear that they carry them or have them in stock. I'd reach out to them to see if they have any. Outside of that, I'm not aware of anything outside of an old Parker Hale kit that was released in the early 20th century (Forgotten Weapons did a thing on them if I recall).
@@TheRedneckPreppy I Found that article in forgotten weapons., problem is there is different names for these things; adapter , reducer, etc Thanks I will try Numrich
About my 5th time gone as far as making my own black powder , range officer ask me what I was shooting I sead great gramps ww1 gun and some old bulets and his legs wobeld. I think some 1916 303 might be expensive 😮😊
2:15 "As I noted in a previous video, Lee Enfield rifles are notorious for headspace issues" You would think that Americans (and others) would ask themselves why, supposedly, the British didn't realize they had a "headspace" issue in every single manufacturing facility making these rifles for over a century, and through three wars? Just kept making improperly cut chambers for decade after decade, and never noticed? Equally weird that most of these "excess headspace" rifles properly pass a go/no-go military gauge test - despite supposedly having "excess headspace"? You would almost start to think like maybe there is nothing 'excess' about the chambers: they are cut just as they were intended to be: for use in war, not as a source of brass for collectors decades later. In fact, almost like they intended chambers larger then reloaders desire so that ball ammunition manufactured to spec but covered in mud, corrosion, etc will reliably chamber rather than jam the rifle during a battle. Who'd a thunk it! 2.55: "That leads to brass stretching in the chamber after detonation, and it greatly stresses the brass near the case head". It does - IF you didn't properly prepare and resize your brass prior to reloading. Or properly prep your new brass prior to first firing. Why would a supposedly knowledgeable handloader not prize the fact that every time they fire the rifle they now have fireformed brass not unlike benchrest competitors? So instead of full length resizing so that case stretch repeats up until early failure, they neck/collet size to get long life (and probably better accuracy) from their cases due to eliminating most of the case stretch. After all, if the head of the case is tight against the bolt face at the back and shoulder/false shoulder at the front of the case is tight against the chamber shoulder at the front... where can the brass stretch to, other than directly outwards to the chamber walls? It might be a clue that competitors in Service Rifle competition almost without exception do collet or neck sizing. Maybe they aren't satisfied with a low reload count due to foolishly and improperly resizing. Apparently, all their rifles are magically free of all these "excess headspace" issues.
Good video. Just a suggestion, I full length resize my brass but I take a spent round from my rifle and measure off the shoulder and just bump it back .002"-.003". They might not chamber in someone else's rifle but I get many, many reloads from them. I keep them sorted in batches also and when I start seeing problems I toss the lot. I also shoot a lot of cast bullets. I use a Lee 160 grain .312 mould and I powder coat them. With a good charge of AA5744 I can turn up just over 2000 fps and after many hundreds of rounds I've seen no leading and they are cheap, very easy on the bore and at 100 yards will hold 2" or so groups. My biggest concern is having a lone Berdan primed case get through and bust my decapping pin.
I've got a guy who is selling ww2 303 british for ~45 cents a round, mostly UK made, packed on belts, and stored in canada and south africa before being surplused.
That's a pretty sweet price -- just remember those would be almost certainly be cordite loaded rounds which cause increased erosion in the chamber throat. Also they'll be Berdan primed which are difficult to re-prime if you want to use the brass. Clean well after shooting!
"Boil out " the barrel in the old military fashion to remove all the corrosive mercuric salts from the primers or the barrel will be ruined in short order,otherwise fine.I used some POF Pakistan Ordinance Factory which had some hang-fires so was christened the "click-bang " ammo,not conducive to accurate shooting.
Great video very educational Just fired new casings and fire form for my Enfield P 14 ,and after neck sizing the casing comes out between 2.203 / 2.209 , it should be 2.212 Is that normal, is it safe to reload them? Thank you
It *should* be safe to reload them though that low end of 2.203 is pretty darned low. You didn't mention it so I assume you didn't trim them to that length -- what did they start out at? Hard to answer normal is in this specific case without knowing that. What brand are they? They would have to have *grown* to that length. Anyway, I've occasionally gotten a little too enthusiastic with trimming (particularly with .223 for some reason), and never experienced an issue with a case 0.009" too short.
@@alainwelonek5972 I'm puzzled. I use PPU brass for .303B myself. Granted, I don't fire form and neck size them (I only full-size and I've been considering a video on why I don't care for neck sizing), but I find it odd that you'd see that variation in length after doing so. Well, the good news is that I've gone wackadoo with the trimmer in the past and probably gone down to 2.203 accidentally, loaded and fired those rounds and lived to tell the tale. You should be fine. Does mean, though, that if you seat the bullet in slightly deeper to compensate for the shorter neck, you will create slightly higher pressures when shooting. I doubt enough to matter, but something you may want to model in Gordon's Reloading Tool if you're curious.
PPU is in my opinion the best brass to use at least as far as the .303 British round is concerned. In pursuit of service rifle match accuracy for competition, I have measured the hell out of WWII Mk VII ball ammo and the very fine (and sadly no longer available) Greek HXP ball ammunition. And used those measurements in comparison to the .303 brass available from today's manufacturers. PPU is closest in rim/head dimensions, internal volume, and case weight. Most competitors I shoot with agree on that, although they didn't go down the measurement rabbit hole as I did. Did you trim or at least measure your new case lengths before loading and first firing? The last 200 cases I bought from Grafs I didn't bother; I always trim new brass to length and then chamfer the mouths before creating the false shoulder for first firing. I don't worry about what the book says ANY caliber length should be, within the variations of chambers. 2.212" is the MAXIMUM length for the round. Unless radically shorter, all that you have is less neck supporting the seated bullet. And losing a hundredth of an inch isn't going to do a single thing either way in a military surplus or common hunting rifle. Generally speaking, I would find the shortest case lengths after collet (or neck) resizing, then set up my trimmer to just clean up the shortest cases' mouths to being square, then trim all the cases back to that length, chamfer, reload, rinse and repeat. If I started seeing wild variations in case length after doing this trimming operation once... then yes, as Winnie The Poo would say 'It's a puzzlement', and I would be curious.
I just reloaded some .303 British brass with .312 Hornady hunting rounds. I tried chambering those rounds into my SMLE No. 1 Mk iii* , and I struggled to load rounds into the bore and securely lock down the bolt. How dangerous is this? Will shooting those rounds destroy my gun’s rifling or even caused the barrel to explode? I’m a bit worried.
Without being there it's hard for me to diagnose exactly what's going on but my initial guess would be that the problem isn't the bullet you used but that the brass is having problems being chambered. How did you size the brass -- full size or neck size? Also, is the brass brand new or have you used it a bunch? It could also be that you bumped the shoulder back a bit too far which caused a small ring to form there and make it difficult to chamber the round.
I disagree with your opinion about not using brass from one rifle to the next. A full length resizing die should iron out any aberrations in a case from an odd chamber. I've been reloading for 38 years.
Fair enough. I think in most rifles it's not an issue -- I just find that Lee Enfields often have those head spacing issues and I've heard too many stories of people using brass from one LE to another and having premature failures. Of course, they could also be using tired brass and a failure was going to happen regardless.
My calculation brings me to about 0.69 per round assuming you already have the brass from previously shot 303. Using Campro 180JSP, IMR 4350 powder and CCI primers. WHat is the cost you are seeing out there?
Funny you mention that, I have been mulling over doing something about reduced power loads. Unfortunately with ranges closed where I am I haven't had a chance to start working on it.
How common -- particularly for Lee Enfields -- is up for debate but it certainly is a known issue. I know on both my rifles that it is a consideration I have to take into account. Regardless of the surplus rifle it's always a good idea to measure headspace when reloading -- it only aids in accuracy and brass longevity.
To be honest with you I haven't heard anything negative about those particular rifles. About the only thing I would state is to see if the bolt is original to the rifle. If it's not original then you *could* have head spacing issues but if you don't reload that isn't much to worry about. If you do the standard tricks will help mitigate that issue. Only way to be sure is, if you are concerned, to headspace it to see where it's at.
@@TheRedneckPreppy thats ok i have my pops Lithgow 303 from ww2 and have you herd of people barrelling the 303 to 270 calibre as there is a site in Australia that I've barrelled 303 to 270.
@ yes I did, those damn fat fingers of mine. I thought they are berdan primed and that meant you could not reload them. I have a Mk IV that I’ve shot about 1200 rounds through. It’s been with a combination of
here is something to notice just because you fired your brass from new in your rifle doesn't mean you can reload it. because of headspace issues I've seen lots of once fired brass that has a bulge that only spans half way around the case about .5cm above case head I've seen ripples in the same area from some. this brass is done. I pick this brass up all the time at the range an send to recycle pays for the brass I have to buy. I've only seen these issues with lee enfield rifles, not in p14's or other hunting rifles in this calibre.
That could be, but I have to say that I've never heard that before. Then again, I don't have access to the armour's manuals that they used back then :-)
The Lee Enfield have 12 different bolt heads which are interchangeable to correct the head space which is measured on the case rim not the case shoulder.
What’s the problem in America you people have .303 bullets very expensive and hard to get? I’m from Pakistan and have a MK4 Lee-Enfield; bullets here are 80cents each. I normally buy like 10 for 7$ I would say. And could anyone of you Americans tell me how much is a MK4 jungle version in USA?
The cheapest way to load .303 is to use bulk surplus 7.62 X 54 components. Use the bullets and powder in 303 cases, doing that will give you non corrosive 303. The powder from the Russian stuff at least performs identical to BLC-2. There will be powder to spare which can be used for other reloads.
Whoa there! That is bad advice. The Mosin-Nagant cartridge is NOT the same as the .303 British cartridge. I just checked my Lee and my Lyman reloading manuals. The M-N uses a .310 OR a .308 caliber bullet. The .303 British cartridge uses a .311, or .312 bullet. Some bores on the Lee-Enfield rifles have been as small as .308 to .317 !!! Be careful people! According to my 48th Edition Lyman manual, .303 British cartridge starting powder grains of IMR-4895 for the 174 grain jacketed bullet is 37.0 grains. The 7.62x54R Russian cartridge with a 174 grain bullet, using IMR-4895 powder is 41.0 grains. Do NOT think that you can interchange components! Buy a printed Reloading manual people! Lyman & Lee are very good. Only load what the tested and printed manuals say is safe! Save yourself from a trip to the Emergency Room or the morgue!
@@gusloader123 All the 7.62 X 54r ammo that I use, both Russian and Chinese have 147 grain bullets. The Russian Mosin bullets mic at .310 and the Chinese Mosin bullets mic at . 311. Both shoot very well in my three Lee Enfield's I also shoot 7.62X39 bullets which mic at .311 with Polish and Chinese ammo. I don't use the powder in 303 ammo. These are also good to shoot in 7.62X54r ammo, they shoot very flat, and make huge orange fireballs. Try it before you die of boredom.😁
The Lee-Enfield also has a replaceable bolt head. It was how British armorers handled head spacing to get the rifles quickly back in service. They come in different sizes. I would caution getting go no go gauges however.
Commercial produced .303 British, such as PPU, generally runs about $30 for a box of 20 around where I live in northern Ontario which is just under $1.50.
Enfield Rifles especially #4Mk 1's from WW2 were all made with over sized chambers. This was done so that ammo loaded any where in the Empire would fit and fire. The other side of this was that the shoulder of the cases were fire formed to the new shoulder profile of that rifle when fired. This was of no consequence to the Military as they were not going to shoot Reloads. The operative point was to have ammo that would chamber and fire no matter where it was made.
When you Full Length Size these cases the shoulder is pushed back to the original Factory Loaded position, Then when fired again it stretches the case again. Most cases done this way will separate after 1-2 reloads. Neck sizing eliminates this problem, and the best tool for that job is the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die $10-15. This die squeezes the neck of the case down onto a Mandrel as opposed to shoving it into a hole and then withdrawing it which stretches the case neck and will require trimming.
One should note that most of the cartridges designed during this time period (1890 ish) had rims and were head spaced on the rim and will do the same thing as the Enfield case if F/L sized. This includes .30-40 Krag, 7.62x54R Russian. .303 Savage and other similar cases.
This all works just fine with Bolt Action rifles that have significant mechanical advantage when closing the bolt. Lever Action Guns may require Setting the shoulder back a few .000 every so often so that the action will close and go fully into battery. You would adjust your F/L die to where it just contacts the shoulder and then screw it in Slightly More. Maybe 1/8 turn or less.
None of this is new, and has been known about for decades.
Hope this helps with understanding this issue.
I have been reloading for my .303 Br. since 1963. I have not experienced any issues.
I shot rifle and pistol n the 80'&90's and reloaded all my ammunition. I never put one round of commercial ammo through any of my guns. The only calibre I has in two different rifles was the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser and I interchanged ammo in those two guns, but they both were of the same date and weapons that appeared to have only had their proof rounds through them before being greased up to go to the Swedish arsenals. The bores and chambers were mint, and I say mint because I cast both chambers and bores and measured them with a micrometer and they were well within spec from given documentation available. My 303 was a number 4 Mk 1 * if 1954 vintage from RAF storage and that had a near mint bore too. In fact the bore was a little tight, and I found it shot better using Israeli 7.62 bullets ( which were nice and cheap compared with the Sierra ones I started using. ) I used the 7.62 primer punch from my .308 Win set of dies instead of the .303" one( the primer punch on the way out re-sizes the neck band after being crimped hard on way down) and that produced a very competitive rifle in club competitions. I bought brand new Norma brass originally, it wasn't cheap by any means, but unlike this video I got around 18 or 19 reloads out of it without one case separation nor even any sign of separation before I gave up shooting when the handgun ban came in here in the UL in 1997. And also I always fully sized the brass not just neck sized. This just goes to show the quality of Norma brass compared to other makes, given what this gentleman says about only neck sizing.
I got a broken case extracting tool and keep it in the stock when I go shooting, broken case, no longer an issue. I recommend get one, it’s cheap, no more pain.
A 303 case will usually stretch in the same place. This will form a ring inside the case about 1/4 inch up from the bottom. This ring is all but impossible to see. It can easily be felt. Take a piece of wire. Make a sharp 90 degree bend in it and cut it off 1/8 inch long making an L shape. Poke the wire down the case touching the case wall with the point of the wire and slide it down. If you can feel a ring around the inside then case head separation has begun. You decide to use or scrap. Bonne chance.
Good info! I fire form my 303s, and then neck size only, anneal shoulder and neck every 3-4 firings, if bolt close gets to difficult I will bump the shoulder back slightly, I also load very light loads with a .002 over groove dia. .313 hard cast gas checked bullet moving at 1850fps (4227 powder) just for killing paper no need for 2400fps, plus case life is significantly longer and accuracy at 100 yards is great. I normally get 12-15 firings per case from a 1915 SMLE.
Nice, that is indeed very impressive.
How do you "bump the shoulder back slightly" when you need too? Do you put a Full length sizing die into your press, and slowly/gently push the cartridge up into the die just enough until you feel enough resistance without pushing the ram all the way to the top and sending the brass all the way into the die?
@@willbartlett10 yes exactly, if the bolt close is too hard after a neck size, I will keep turning the full length size die down 1/8 -1/4 turn at a time untill the bolt just closes on the unloaded case with a slight resistance.
@@llkj7944 I have an 1899H (I think), 20inch lightweight barrel, breakdown...
Do you know about the amount of free bore on this rifle?
I need to get a OAL gauge to see how far out I can seat the bullet and still have it work in the magazine.
Are you crimping your rounds?
@@willbartlett10 yes I crimp, use a Lee factory crimp die, sorry not sure about free bore on a 1899, In my Enfield I seat the bullets to magazine length, I have single loaded longer but didn't realy give me any more accracy.
Thanks for this, proud owner of a No4 MK2 that was FTRed in 55 (Fazakerley) and is in factory refurbished condition since the day I bought it at Big 5 in ‘96. I’m converting it into a T sniper variant even scored a couple of the wooden chests they were stored in. Only have half a box of ammo for it, Winchester made and it’s going in for the scope pads to be mounted. Other than installing the cheek rest it’s ready to go. Bore is pristine 5 groove rifling. Even scored NOS bayonets, sling, soft case and cleaning kit. Repro scope MK32 and proper Bren gun mount. I’m bulking up on all the videos I can find to learn the ins and outs.
Good luck!
Thank you for this excellent video on the .303. I’m 51 years experienced in loading ammunition and I did learn from your video
Thank you, very kind of you!
This tutorial should be a "sticky" for every .303 reloader.
Exceedingly kind of you to say. Thank you for watching!
I agree, excellent and very informative
@Majorrogerragland48 Recently I started using Berry's Plated 123 gr .311 (made for 7.62x39) over 20 grains of IMR SR4759 (now discontinued😡) as a light plinker. Unknown as to what I'll use when my supply runs out. Very accurate, kicks like a .32-20 Winchester.
@@steveh4962 My load is Missouri Bullets Co, Hi-tek .312 Diameter 167 Grain FP
and 13 grains of Trailboss. sweet, mild and accrete shooting out @ 50 yards.
@Majorrogerragland48 More than one way to skin a cat: my other two are both from Accurate Molds. The 31-134D over 8 grs of Unique and the 31-180MB over 10 grs of Unique. Both molds were ordered with .314 diameter projectiles. Good cheap fun. The Maltby loves them both!
I am looking forward to loading for a No. 4 MK 1 I picked up at auction. I have heard all about the issues regarding sizing. I have a box of new Hornady brass. I will try the same trick I use with new belted mag brass. I neck it up one, maybe 2, cals until it won't chamber at all, then use a FL die to size it down slowly until the bolt closes with a hint of resistance. This eliminates the initial case stretch. This trick always works with belted mag brass, which can stretch as much as .020" on the first go 'round. We shall see. Thanks for the vid!
You must leave a follow-up comment on how this works. I've never worked with belted brass, at least not that I remember, but your method sounds interesting. I might give it a shot the next time I work some .303 brass to check it out for myself. Great comment!
@@TheRedneckPreppy It must be brand new brass. If not, the initial stretch has already happened. I will follow up. If I can remember. Lol
@@luvtahandload7692 You're on exactly the right track. Most use a Lyman .33 caliber M die to expand the case neck, and then do as you explained and size down the neck a tiny bit at a time until the cases chamber with a crush fit when turning the bolt handle down. That leaves you with a false shoulder on the case neck. Now your cases headspace on the shoulder of the case, they are not dependent on the rim.
First firing gives you the same fireformed brass without stretching that a benchrest shooter would get. Reloading after that, most use the Lee Collet die while others use a neck sizing die. Eventually you will have to bump the shoulder back a thou or two.
Thanks for the video, in South Africa I'm enjoying my hunting with 303 with great success.
Awesome and thank you kindly for watching sir!
I've just gotten into reloading rifle ammo, starting with .303 British for my Enfield No.4 Mk1*, and I'm only neck sizing.
I use a Lee rifle reloading kit, as it's about $50, and that beats the price of other loading methods by hundreds of dollars.
It's slow, but you examine and handle every single round, and my results have been very impressive, getting solid performance and my accuracy has shrunk from 2" at 100 yards to 1.25" at 100 yards using the reloaded ammo!
The Lee kit said good brass can last up to 100 reloads, but I've heard from most reloaders that 10-15 is more likely, but the main thing is to inspect your cases, and decide from there.
Out of a batch of 30, I had one dud, which was odd as the primers I'm using are Winchester match grade large rifle primers, so it seems very odd it'd fail. The brass that one was in had never been fired, the primer was properly seated, the strike was good (looked like all the others), and when I got back home I pulled the bullet out and there was indeed powder inside, so no idea what that was about. Probably just a bad primer.
Anyway, it's been a ton of fun, and your video has given me some more insight into reloading! Thank you, and good shooting!
Glad to hear that you got into reloading and for one of my favourite rifles at that! And happy to hear that you're seeing improved groups as a result, though 2" at 100 with factory is nothing to sneeze at with a rifle of that age. So well done on both counts!
I will admit that I am not the biggest fan of neck sizing but it does extend the life of the brass and you ostensibly do have improved accuracy, though I'm a little dubious of that later claim. The top F class shooters in the world almost universally full-length size and they seem to do okay in the accuracy department, though I will grant we're comparing apples to oranges, ha ha.
If you want accuracy from your 303 look for, accurising your 303 or 10 steps to insanity, its all in one sentence and shows how to set up your 303, I've also used 123 fmj projectiles at 700yds with great success
@@TheRedneckPreppy I only neck size and shoot to out to 1,000 yds
i had 3 case head separations at the range today and it jumped the bolt up. Needless to say I put the rifle away and i am pulling all of my bullets and dumping the powder. I have an No4 Mk1 from '44. I am a bit ashamed to admit that I never thought about just resizing the neck. Should have been obvious to me when I was having a tough time resizing with my FL die.
now I am sitting here with a pile of 303 brass checking for indicators of separation!
Very informative video! thanks!
Hey I have had that day as well so don't feel bad. Good thing is that nothing bad happened and you were able to clear the brass out of the chamber.
Set your FL die to kiss the shoulder or -.002". You can smoke the shoulder to check for contact. Or. Use the headspace gauge to compare fired case to sized case. A little at a time.
I might be at 8 shots for my brass. I inspect them all and toss anything with that line and even if I'm not sure I'll get a feeler to feel inside and toss even if I don't see the line but feel something inside. So far zero case head separations in over a year when I started doing that. I only neck size and only 2/3 of the way from the mouth so I have a second bottle neck to center the round in the chamber. Read that from someone else so not my invention. I picked up over 70 cases someone left at the range. Even the range master said maybe don't trust it. 100% of them were fine. They held primers tight and none had any signs of case head separation and so far still fire fine after maybe 4 shots. Even when I had case head separations it wasn't catastrophic. Just used the tool to extract it easily.
Awesome stuff mate!
I got a couple more Enfields, this time an Indian No1 and a BSA No1. Both have varying chambers. I got my sizing die and wrote down how much I had to back off from all the way down to the shell holder so it was just enough to neck size and mildly resize. Hoping that doesn't eat up the brass too much. Maybe I can just neck size if they chamber fine. I had some genuine once fired PPU brass that a range master sold me so I trust him. When I tried to just use it, it was super snug to close the bolt. My BSA seems to have the snugest chamber which seems like it should have the best brass life. Does that sound right? Less working of the brass I'm thinking.@@TheRedneckPreppy
Sometimes the nomenclature of particular rifles gets run-over by history or lack of general knowledge. The SMLE - Short Magazine Lee- Enfield rifle is the mainstay of the Commonwealth. Here in Canada / USA - the manufacture of the Pattern 14 - Enfield was built at many facilities. These rifles [3 SMLE ] - from my slugs - run 0.312 to 0.316. My P14 - runs 0.312. I also have a Canadian Ross - which shoots the best. 0.311.
The lockup of the SMLE and head space play havoc on brass - hence the reason for new brass - When I started to reload for my SMLE - 42 yrs ago. I wanted to prove something - how long would brass last. I started with Factory Win - 180gr. I had my hand loader with me - and I loaded all cartridges and fired them all again and again. 19 reloads is what I finally arrived at. But my loads were not Max - they were 300 or so off the Factory velocity.
The Ross is a rotary bolt - so it requires very careful resizing, matched to the chamber as best you can. The P14 - is a Rear Bolt - Like the US P1917 and the A303. You can leave them a little long and the bolt will cam them home.
I use to check the dimension just in front of the rim. For those that were bigger than the specs out of a good manual - could give you a read of how many Full load shots the brass had seen.
I is a real pleasure to reload and on the range. I still have 5 rifles - I never saw much need to change away. They will take any North American game. Thank you Sir - I always learn some new things! Cheers.
And thank you! A very informative post!
@@TheRedneckPreppy Thank YOU Sir. This allows us all to share info. I learned from WW1 and 2 Vets. Cheers!
Thanks!! I learned so much more from this video about my new SMLE addition to my collection. This puppy definitely needs more tender loving care compared to my other ones.
And thank you for watching! Good luck with the new rifle!
I'm very much the same. Used to use PPU brass and reload using a classic Lee Loader which is neck size only. I used to get about 5 uses out of brass.
Five isn't horrible all things considered.
Never heard of slugging a bore... learned something new again today.
Certainly can come in useful for handloading ammunition for both Lee Enfields and Mosin Nagant M91/30s given both are a bit "infamous" for having bores of slightly varying size, though probably a good practice for any old rifle from that era.
Can't argue that -- I think its almost a rule that if you're trying to maximize accuracy out of either the LE or MN that you slug them.
The biggest thing I see that screws people up reloading for that caliber are always full length sizing and over working the brass. I reload for my SMLE and a #4 mk 1/2 and keep the brass sorted by specific firearm and bump the shoulder back a few thousands and use a collet die. Hornady makes a head spacecomparator kit that really comes in handy for those rimmed cartridges imo.
Ah! A voice of knowledge in the wilderness of trees!
I fall into the ranks of both the competitors and cast bullet maniacs that start with new unprimed brass. I've found Privy Partisan best matches the case dimensions/volume of WWII Mark VII ball ammunition from Canada, Britain, and the Greek's very fine HXP ball ammunition (no longer available, sadly). The metallurgy is excellent in their brass as well.
That done, we/I create a false shoulder on the neck so that the bolt closes with a light crush fit on the case. Looking at the location of the false shoulder on the case and how much further it is ahead of the factory shoulder demonstrates just how much 'extra space' there is at the front of the chamber when headspaced on the rim rather than now on the false shoulder. That's why the case stretching occurs that leads to early failure of the brass.
Having done that, after firing case sizing is with the Lee Collet die you mention, and occasionally a quick shoulder bump of a few thou to maintain that light crush fit when chambering the rounds.
I anneal the cases via hand held and an alcohol lamp pretty much every time, but not every time. It only takes about ten seconds or so until the case is uncomfortable to continue to hold, so it doesn't take much time to do it. I'm primarily doing this to continue case neck uniformity for accuracy when firing across the course as the range gets further out there, but of course it also helps minimize case failure. There are much spendier, more precise ways to anneal, but even with the very best WWII surplus rifles selected for competition, there is a point where the juice is not worth the squeeze. LE's are never going to be MOA capable rifles (or if they are, in 50 years of competitive shooting with them, I have never seen one that gets close to that).
Bottom line is you can have a hell of a lot of fun with the LE for minimal cost reloading, whether just for tin can slaying or competition with either jacketed or cast bullets. And even hunting with either jacketed or cast, if you don't get lazy and just default to the fine factory hunting ammunition available out there.
PPU brass is good. HXP is better if you can get it as it was made for the UK Military to their spec. Lee Enfield's at least no 4s have swappable bolt heads to accommodate head space wear if you can find them. I seat bullets so they will fit in the mag. I only ever neck size my cases and have had few problems. A good point is not to use too much lube as this can dent the shoulder. I use 174g loaded to give service velocity so the sights work .
Great stuff!
Thanks for this video. I had already thought of neck sizing to save brass life. Shooting low pressure with cast bullets will also help. Thats my plan. I was going to load for 3030 with a 312 lee mold but this throws a bit large. PC'd it was definitely too large. I chalked it up to experience and put the mold away.
It was a hidden blessing. It'll go great for the enfield I came across some time back. Its a little light at 160gr as cast but should do well. I should be able to do 1800 to 2000fps depending on accuracy node.
I got a little of the later "good times"of the cheap loading days.. I started in '90. I was getting a brick of primers for 15 on the low side, powder about the same and bullets a bit less (depending on type).
Never would I have dreamed that we'd be where we are now. Every election I've learned to stock up a bit to weather the first year storm....this storm isn't stopping. Wish I'd have had more money
to have stocked more back. About half the powders I normally use are either unobtainium or doubled in price. Unique was my go to on the "old girls". A GEW, my enfield and lighter loaded cast bullet stuff.
I have a new to me model 95 7mm chilean that doesn't like the 139gr PPU at all....but I'm strapped for cash and cant afford dies or a bullet mold. My 8mm and enfield I'm glad to say I had stuff for already.
Talked to a guy the other day who said he wanted to get into reloading. I smiled and told him he pretty much missed the boat for saving money at all but still offered my help as his "elmer"
if needed.
Yeah, a lot has changed in reloading in terms of price and availability since I made this video, ha ha. Thanks for watching and best wishes going forward!
Interesting video. I would suggest that rifle owners inspect their brass carefully but the ring that often appears toward the back of the case body is normal as the "webbing" between the primer and powder is extremely thick. The stretching that can be observed is at the base of the powder compartment. I have 2 rifles chambered with the same basic case. A no1 mk III with basically unused barrel and also a sporterised .303/25 that was used for common vermin control. I am in the process of restoring the .25 to its former glory.
Thanks for the tip, yep l found that to picking up brass from rang is a no no your right we don't know how many firings the brass have had
A great informative video. I just wanted to add that a lot of people will compare the fired brass with the brass on a loaded round. This can be quite startling. The amount that the cartridge stretches is often easily seen without measurement. They will pronounce that the rifle has excessive head space thinking that the shoulder of the case is the focus of head spacing when in reality it is the rim ot the case. I was told at some point in my life that the rifle is designed like this to insure feeding in dirty conditions. If you could comment on this I would be gratful as I am not sure it is true.
Your rifle almost certainly does not have "excess headspace". Nor do the vast majority of the rest of the Lee Enfield rifles whose owners complain they have "excess headspace".
Just for poops and giggles, buy an inexpensive go/no-go gauge and test your rifle's chamber.
The cartridge is INTENDED to headspace on the rim - ONCE. And a rim in the 1880's when the cartridge was designed was at least as importantly intended to give the extractor systems of the day something to grab on to, similar to the existing 30-30, which nobody complains has "excess headspace" issues.
You would think that Americans (and others) would ask themselves why, supposedly, the British didn't realize they had a "headspace" issue in every single manufacturing facility making these rifles for over a century, and through three wars? 1888 all the way through the 1950's and beyond.
Just kept making improperly cut chambers for decade after decade, and never noticed? Equally weird that most of these "excess headspace" rifles properly pass a go/no-go military gauge test - despite supposedly having "excess headspace"? Military gun plumbers never noticed that in doing first line maintenance on these rifles for all that time
You would almost start to think like maybe there is nothing 'excess' about the chambers: they are cut just as they were intended to be: for use in war, not as a source of brass for collectors decades later. In fact, almost like they intended chambers larger then reloaders desire so that ball ammunition manufactured to spec but covered in mud, corrosion, etc will reliably chamber rather than jam the rifle during a battle. Who'd a thunk it!
An excellent explanation 👏 of how and why to reload your .303 British cartridges .
Thank you, very kind of you!
excellent video i agree with the fire forming and neck sizing another thing i found when reloading not only the 303 but others as well that the norma cartridges are too soft and had many a wonderful time extracting broken cases from my dies even when only neck sizing but i did know about the several different sizes of 303 projectiles just not the slugging of the bore thanks for that tip
Thanks for watching!
If the minimum load shoots good i leave it at that have found that my brass lasts longer.
I've been mostly unlucky in that regard. Awesome for you though!
When I started reloading some 55 years ago I could reload a 30-06 round for about 7 cents. 1/2 a cent for the primer, 2 cents for the powder and about 5 cents for the bullet. The good old days. I was also buying surplus 30-06 rounds for $2 a box of 20. Mainly for the brass to reload for my Garand and ‘03 Springfield rifles. I prefer to use military brass in both.
Hearing those costs makes me want to shed a tear, ha ha.
Even with inflation those prices are cheaper than today. Ah well.
All good, makes me want to dig out the Enfields again. Thanks
You can't go wrong with a good Lee Enfield!
We just bought a 303 sporter today and have 99 brass on hand ( long story ) that I will reload this week . I need projectiles and dies yet .
Have fun reloading and shooting!
Good quality brass (Remington and Federal) can be reloaded more times for my MKIII*. Seller & Bellot only twice (three total firings) Private Partisan (PPU) is unknown.
I do okay with the PPU -- 5-6 reloadings. I will agree with you that S&B is trash compared to other brass. Primer pockets that are *just* a little too small and brass that just seems to turn brittle by looking at it.
The head spacing on Brit 303s was notorious. A longer bold face can be used to tighten up the head spacing. A 308 diameter prohectile will rattle down the 311 bore and get the job to if you dont find 311 dia on the shelf.
December 2023. Speaking of excessive headspace and being wary of fired brass... when I was several decades younger, I was given the remains of a commercial ammunition box of .303 British soft point (hunting ammunition). It was the standard twenty round count box. Of those three or four (as I recall) were fired and the rest were unfired. All but one of the fired cases showed serious and quite pronounced signs of 'Incipient (meaning 'in progress') head separation. The one exception had ruptured radially around the case at that more or less five millimeter mark as mentioned. It was hanging together by a rather wide sliver on one side.
All those warnings are real. Likely a case failing like that will stick much of the cartridge in the chamber. Usually it will not damage the rifle (other than exacerbate the already questionable chamber issue) but is quite likely to send a puff of extremely hot gas - burning powder gas - rather close to the shooter's face. At best, not pleasant.
I am a 'fan' of the cartridge and the rifles. I have two of the first world war examples (my specific interest) the Mark 1 type, and a Ruger No 1 falling block rifle in the same caliber. (Which does not have the same headspace problem.)
"At best, not pleasant". A fine understatement, ha ha.
@@TheRedneckPreppy Red, I didn't shoot that rifle, never even saw it. But I handled the results and shivered.
Spot on!
Thank you very much!
Oh the note of the case head separation. If the rifle is the only one you have and it has been forming that little ridge after the second firing. Is that too high a powder load or is it a rifle issue that only shows itself then?
I shoot mostly cast bullets with mild charges. Have experienced no problems with brass in 3 different rifles.
well said yes !!! Using fired ammo from rifle A to reload ammo for the same rifle!!! agreed
Thank you sir!
Excellent video , thank you.
Thank you very much!
Good overview of gotchas to look for when reloading finicky caliber brass. 👍
Thank you!
Back in the late 50s my uncle bought a new in the wrap .303 jungle carbine for $17 and a 55 gallon drum of surplus ammo fo $25 . Needless to say he shot that rifle a lot and loved it.
Lord almighty...the ammo alone...
@@TheRedneckPreppy He still had about 1/3 of that barrel left when I was a kid in the 70s. That little rifle kicked hard .
@@alancoventry4406 They have that habit :-)
I wonder if No. 4 Mk2s would be a better candidate for hand loading that the war time No4s Mk1s? Especially the mummy wrapped...
I'm going to be honest with you and say I don't know -- certainly an interesting question.
Thank you 👍
Right back at you!
Very good channel and talk! I started reloading as a kid helping my granddad reload .270 and .220 swift and now load .303 brit, 9mm and 20 gauge.
Thanks very much for the compliment, very much appreciated. Few hobbies better than reloading -- it teaches precision, care, patience and the end result is satisfying when you finally get it right!
HXP brass with o rings, neck size, and 65% max load with H4895. I can get 10 to 12 reloads.
Very nice.
@@TheRedneckPreppy I've read of people getting around 30 reloads with just the o rings without reduced loads. Any thoughts? I call BS but.....maybe?
@@no.4mk126 I've been alive long enough to know that *nothing* is impossible but heavy proof is required for extra ordinary claims. Heck, even people who neck-size and anneal their .303 B don't claim more than 10-12 reloads on the high end.
New subscriber and love this. I own and shoot the Enfield 303's so great video!
Thank you, very much appreciated on both counts!
great info , i just started reloading the 303 , its definitely got more quirks than other cartridges do !
Thank you kindly and have fun!
140 grains is what we used back in the 70s less wear all round
I might try that.
Excellent video and info, one of my Enfields definitely has a head space issue. Glad to know it’s a common problem with these rifles, Thanks for share!
My thanks!
I have a no1 mk3* that will shoot a 1.5 inch at 100 with 125gr flat base hand loads. I tried ppu 150gr and s and b 150gn factory loads and the group's grow to 4 inches. I'm going to try hand loading some .312 hornady 150gr flat base. Any thoughts?
My first thought is why not stick with the 125gn bullets? Getting 1.5 inches out of a Lee Enfield at 100 yards is pretty good -- unless you're developing the 150gn for hunting (which I would go to 174gn).
That said, what and how much powder did you go with 150gn?
@@TheRedneckPreppy still waiting on some new brass but I was thinking imr 4895 at about 38-40gr with the 150gr hornady .it is for hunting fallow deer . I also have 8208 . I spent a lot of time getting the stock fitting correctly and bedding 150mm of barrel , it's an H barrel . It's been sporterized before I got it . I have never owned a rifle that is that erratic with projectiles. Especially one designed for heavier pills.
@@Dylan-on2gh Keep me in the loop -- I'd like to see how well this combination works. I'm always interested in new loads.
Thanks
Thank you for watching, it is very much appreciated.
Cheers mate some real good info it’s appreciated
Thank you, very kind of you!
Neck resize…..classic Lee loader. Can knock out 50 rounds on a rainy afternoon
Not a neck sizing fan myself anymore, but if it works for you, that's all that matters!
I will be hitting you up on some loads for it ...Davide
when i reloaded any cal i only reloaded 3 times per case and of course inspected each case before and after each reload especially 2nd and 3rd reload , was always super careful and same rule for resized cases
Excellent rule to follow!
Pakistani, Indian, Egyptian, and Iraqi military loaded .303 surplus ammunition I tend to save them and bring them to recycling centers so what ever money I could get for just the brass alone and buy .303 reloadable brass online. The foreign military .303 are made of lesser quality brass and used only for combat and training. The British Radway Green are of quality but they are of the military Berdan primed case. Good luck punching those Berdan primed cases.
I've no experience with .303 from any of those countries -- I've never seen surplus for sale locally. Good to know!
The RCBS berdan primer remover works great once set up. The trick is getting berdan primers
Hydraulic depriming works for those but remember the factory primer contaminates the brass and weakens it,also the berdan primers can be hard to find.
reddevilparatrooper Whatevs, I’ve got 2 cases of Greek hxp 303 on clips that I got for a song. Some of the best surp brass I’ve come across.
Interesting. I have a .303 BR and Mosin 7.62x54R. I really like those rifles but never thought it was practical for me to reload for those particular rifles. I don’t shoot them very often. I keep plenty of ammo around for them. I just let people shoot them that never had a chance to shoot old surplus rifles. I did a lot of research on them. Ya. Those rifles were often retooled by what ever military group had them in service. They marked the rifles when they retooled them so those marks can be researched.
There are different numbered bolt heads for the enfield. I used to have enfield sand my friend had one enfield and his shells were swollen after shooting and he took it the gunsmith and the gunsmith put a different numbered bolt head and eliminated the case stretch
If it took the next larger bolt bolt head, then that rifle had an ACTUAL headspace problem, versus the MYTHICAL "excess headspace" problem so many Americans lacking the national corporate knowledge of the Lee Enfield rifle post and talk about.
Who would believe that Commonwealth arsenals didn't realize they were making millions of rifles with excess headspace over a century and WWI, WWII, Korea, etc? Only now have Americans discovered their error? I say that because you don't hear Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, etc talking and posting about "excess headspace in these rifles" as they compete in service rifle matches with these very same surplus rifles.
The deliberately large cut chambers are not an issue for the vast majority of Lee Enfield owners who head out with commercial ammunition to whack a moose, elk, deer, etc. Canada for one is full of them, and they aren't going to bother reloading for the number of rounds they fire out of their rifle every year. The fired brass will be left laying on the ground.
For handloaders... if they want best brass life and the best results, success demands learning how to properly prepare the cases prior to reloading them.
Thank you for your knowledge.
You are too kind, sir.
Eh Steve very nice ...can’t wait to go play with my grandfathers 303.......Davide here ..later
Does buying quality brass like lapua if they make 303 British make a difference?
I definitely notice a difference from when I'm using brass from companies like Lapua or Norma compared to when I'm using stuff from Winchester, PPU, S&B, etc. I have some Norma brass I've been using for years.
Having said that, if you are using premium brass like Lapua, you're almost obligated to neck-size and anneal that brass to stretch out the life of it as long as possible. So that extra expense of the brass is added onto.
All that said, I tend to use cheaper brass because I can't be bothered enough to anneal or neck-size.
Thank you. Very informative video, although it's making me think twice about reloading .303
Just watch your video.I wonder if you could tell me how you would measure head space. How does the head space get out of wack? What is the proper head space if it is measureable?
In 99% of the LE's out there, the mythical "headspace" issue does not exist. What you have is the large chamber the Commonwealth arsenals DELIBERATELY cut to deal with less than pristine ammunition in muddy trenches, fetid colonial jungles, etc. Oddly enough, it is mostly Americans who bring up the "excess headspace" issue - probably because they're one-offs who don't have the benefit of 130 years of national corporate knowledge with the rifle both inside and outside their armed forces. You won't hear Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, South Africans, etc at a service rifle or similar match talking about "excess headspace".
Almost every single surplus LE decomissioned for release to the civilian market had a final inspection by the gun plumbers while on it's way out the door. It was the good ol' days, but that didn't mean they didn't take some measures to ensure a potentially dangerous rifle didn't get out the door.
Unless your bolt head is numbered as a "3", then you're almost certainly good. A "3" is a rifle barrel on it's last legs: the bolt head sizes go from "0" to "3". Once a "3" fails the headspace test, there are no bigger bolt heads to replace it with. There are several methods used to get more life out of a barrel failing with a "3" bolt head i.e. shimming the bolt face, but very few owners will find themselves in this situation.
BTW, rifles didn't leave the arsenals brand new, all with "0" bolt heads installed; many left with a "1" and I have seen a few that left with a "2" in place. The arsenals knew that there would be gun plumbers where the rifles went, and those gun plumbers would be doing first line inspections of the rifles at least once a year along with the rest of the weapons. When the gun plumbers decided a rifle was out of spec, it went back to an arsenal for FTR before being returned/re-issued.
To find out if you do indeed have excess headspace, lay your hands on a go/no-go gauge, preferably a Field version of the gauge, but any will do. If it fails the no-go test, install the next size of bolt head: i.e. if your rifle currently has a bolt head marked "1", then buy and install a "2" and confirm with the gauge.
The VAST majority of "excess headspace" issues (with accompanying early brass failure) are dealt with by properly preparing new brass before first firing. And alternately, properly resizing brass after it has been fire formed by being fired in your rifle's chamber. He makes some references to some ways of doing that.
Best of the LE world: Buy new unprimed brass, Privy Partisan measures up as being closest to WWII Mark VII ball ammunition cases by dimension and the brass itself is of excellent quality. Graf's regularly has it for sale in bags of 50. Having done that, use a Lyman Lee M die (.33 caliber) to slightly increase the caliber of the case necks. Then gradually run those prepared cases into a full length resizing die in small increments, until the bolt will close on the case with a slight crush fit.
As you do this, you will see a small 'false shoulder' forming and moving down the neck as you increase the amount the case is pushed into the full length die. When the bolt will finally close, the case is no longer depending on the rim for headspacing, with the brass free to go in whatever direction it wants on firing - usually stretching forward into the space betweeen the case shoulder and the shoulder portion of the cut chamber.
The case is now firmly held between the case head in contact with the bolt face at the rear and the false shoulder in contact with the shoulder portion of the chamber. The case can now no longer stretch/flow forward, it can only expand out radially to contact the chamber. Even if your rifle DOES have real excess headspace, at the very least this addresses it by fitting the brass to the chamber, rather than using a larger bolt head to shorten an overly long chamber. Not the ideal way of dealing with needing a larger bolt head, but it addresses it.
Very nice video. I am planning to get into reloading because 303 ammo price rockets into the air.
Thank you and good luck with the reloading!
Great video! But what about seating depth?
I don't get fancy with that to be honest with you. I usually go by the recommendations from the bullet manufacturer.
My results are fine enough -- they're old rifles, I'm not going to fine tune a load to less than their capable of by manipulating every variable I can so I rarely mess around with seating depth. At least I have no recollection of doing so with .303 British.
While we're discussing brass I have some old military .303 rounds with the berdan primer. Seems to be no real use for it.
Well, it's not *impossible* to convert Berdan primer brass, but I don't really see the point to it. Seems like more trouble than it's worth -- at least these days, ha ha
I can't even begin to imagine how. I think the holes a different size entirely.
@@TheRedneckPreppy
Yes I agree. The process is quite involved.@@TheRedneckPreppy
Nice video. Any projectile recommendations?
I tend towards 174 grain round nose from Hornady (#3130) but I've also used PPU's 174 gn FMJ BT (B-143). I haven't been able to find the PPUs lately in my neck of the woods though.
I've been mulling over trying out Speer bullets but I don't think they make a 174 so I'm still playing around with GRT to see where I might want to start.
@@TheRedneckPreppy Thank you!
Just seeing this today 10/27/23. I have experienced case separation the day before Deer hunting Season. I used a 410 gauge cleaning brush to remove the stuck case . Recently I bought some Herters 303 British ammo at my local Cabela's it's marked made in the USA . I haven't been to the range to try it have you used it if so how were the groups?
I can honestly say not only have I never used it, I've unfortunately never even seen it for sale in my neck of the woods.
@@TheRedneckPreppy It amazing that some type of Ammunition aren't available in parts of the country. I always wanted to try Gorilla 🦍🦍🦍 brand Ammo can't be found locally. Maybe online..
Sub’d and liked. Many thanks for the information - appreciated.
Thank you sir, quite kind of you on both counts!
The british made a rifle with a rim , to avoid head stock issues. The cartridge sealed at the rear. They didn't care about reloading as they had an empire any of whom could use these rifles against them. The rifles leaving the factory had to place five out of five rounds into a five inch circle at 200 yards. In fact that was where the rifled was zeroed to. They used Berdan primers to make reloading difficult. Gave FTR rifles to guerrilla fighters . This was so the rifles would be worn out at wars end. They are far more cunning than they were ever given credit for.Each military round was spot on loading wise.
FTR rifles went straight back into the hands of British, Australian, Canadian, etc soldiers during the war. Hardly "guerrilla fighters". The whole point of FTR was to bring the rifle back to factory spec.
FTR rifles had a limited barrel life and the only ones i saw were issued to cadets. The ends were painted yellow. nMalay Guerillas were sent FTR rifles.@@AirborneMOC031
@@hardyakka6200 Why don't you go try selling your FTR BS over in the Milsurps forum where there are still British armourers hanging out and answering questions and providing advice to service rifle competitors from around the world?
I'll go check in over there in a few days to see how you get on with trying to sell your BS over there. Ask for 'Peter Laidler' when you try to explain your imaginative version of LE history to former Lee Enfield armourers.
The ENTIRE point of FTR was to bring the entire rifle back to arsenal specifications, not "just a limited barrel life rifle for guerilla and cadet use".
Sometimes, rifles were FTR'd not for repair, but to UPGRADE the rifle with later improvements. Fazerkerly as one example FTR upgraded No.4 MkI to what were restamped as No.4 Mk1/2. Later, they FTR'd the No. 4 Mk I* to the improved and FTR re-stamped No. 4 Mk 1/3. Other arsenals i.e. BSA and Long Branch did the same thing.
There are many FTR stamped rifles that are still in competition use around the world, and most of them will have just as many rounds still being put through them as many surplus rifles from WWI and WWII.
Thus endeth today's lesson...
Very helpful
Very kind of you, thank you!
@@TheRedneckPreppy Just loaded my first batch of 303, will be testing them tomorrow :)
@@alexxu3004 Awesome man, good luck with them!
Thank you! Tons of good info!
Quite kind of you!
Very good thank you. Any idea what loading pressure the Lee Metford/.303 Mk 1 barrel was designed for?
I'll be honest with you, I haven't. By odd coincidence I was just reading the development history of that rifle -- no mention of that kind of information.
@@TheRedneckPreppy Thanks for coming back to me. One of the nerds in our group has argued the original pressure was tonnes but was never clarified as short tonne or long tonne (ye olde english measurements). We seem to think it's low to mid 30k psi. It's worth noting as only number 4s can handle big pressure such as HPX (HXP?) machine gun ammo. Don;t blow up your collectors piece!
@@smudgepost I think that your estimation of probably fair. If I ever come across something like that I'll certainly come back to this comment and provide the information.
The cordite .303 round of the Lee/Medford day was 19.07 TSI (equal to 42,720 PSI, depending on the arsenal who manufactured and proof tested your rifle). This was later increased for later Mk.VII rounds to 20.71 TSI, equal to roughly 46,390 PSI (again, depending on what the arsenal who manufactured and proof tested the rifle stamped it as). That would be Imperial long tonnes, BTW - it is England, not the USA of that period. You will get very slightly different TSI numbers, depending on what source arsenal/country you get them from. Many surplus LE's had a different proof test (and accompanying stamp) prior to sold to export.
Now throw in different countries i.e. the Aussies being the obstinate offspring of British criminals went their own way when proof testing the rifles they made of British pattern, versus British proof testing of British rifles. And throw in various arsenals doing slightly different testing than the next arsenal in the same country - or another country using the British testing method. The British testing system was completely different from the American/SAAMI method.
Are you REALLY sure you want to go down the "what loading pressure..." rabbit hole? Collectors of the Lee Enfield variants regularly visit each other down that rabbit hole discussing that subject? I've followed them down that rabbit hole a few times; interesting, but didn't offer any useful information to my LE world.
For those not so inflicted as the collectors, two things to keep in mind:
1. At various times in various places, No. 4 Mk1 rifles were rechambered to 7.62 NATO for use with 7.62 ball for both service rifle competition and alternately as sniper rifles for use in war. The ones you are most likely to see on the surplus market are the Canadian DCRA conversions for competition. Obviously not a Medford, but when the No. 4 rifle can pass 7.62 proof for such use, you're not likely to have a pressure problem unless you do something that was clearly stupid, even in the Medford prior to it's No.4 Mk1 offspring.
2. There is no commercial ammunition nor published reloading data out there that will exceed the pressure limitations of even the earliest of Lee rifles out there, including the Metford.
I doubt there are many LE affectionados out there attempting to create Rhino Roller loads for hunting or whatever - and those guys are probably going to start by rechambering to one of Elwood Epps' wildcat chamberings.
Been reloading .303 Brit-ish for 25 years for my unissued unfired No. 4 Mk 2.
I fired new s&b rounds, then reloaded only neck sized and it seams the cases have expanded so much their getting stuck in the magazine, if I only load 5 they feed most of the time but any more than that the bolt won't strip the next round without smacking it. Help
Without being there to look for myself it seems like you have more of a magazine issue than anything else. I assume you were able to load 10 rounds in the magazine without issue when you were shooting factory fresh S&B?
Brass does expand somewhat depending on your chamber but it would be implausible that it would cause magazine feed issues even if only neck sizing.
Even now I can load 10 new rounds no problem, the neck sized ones just don't want to strip off the top of the mag and load, its like their binding in the mag, oal
Shortened oal to make sure they weren't too long, it just seams like their to fat...
@@larrymuffett7127 I have to say that is weird, I can't say that I've bumped into that issue.
And you have no problem going with 10 rounds of factory in your magazine?
That's correct, factory ppu cycle perfect. But on the neck sized s&b the bolt doesn't want to strip especially the rounds on the right side, the bolt rides just over the top and doesn't feed. If I smack it they almost always feed the second try. I must also mention this is just dry cycling, not firing. The jolt from firing may make them feed. But certainly can't do the short stroke unloading. I really think it's the fire forming making the rounds fatter. I must have a big chamber, the gun shots very good. It's a no4mark1* long branch
.303 enfield cartridge chamber reducer to 22 LR Anyone know where i can find a company that sells them?
Only company recently that I'm aware of that sold a conversion kit for Lee Enfields was Numrich but it doesn't appear that they carry them or have them in stock. I'd reach out to them to see if they have any.
Outside of that, I'm not aware of anything outside of an old Parker Hale kit that was released in the early 20th century (Forgotten Weapons did a thing on them if I recall).
@@TheRedneckPreppy I Found that article in forgotten weapons., problem is there is different names for these things; adapter , reducer, etc Thanks I will try Numrich
About my 5th time gone as far as making my own black powder , range officer ask me what I was shooting I sead great gramps ww1 gun and some old bulets and his legs wobeld. I think some 1916 303 might be expensive 😮😊
You're braver than I am :-)
2:15 "As I noted in a previous video, Lee Enfield rifles are notorious for headspace issues"
You would think that Americans (and others) would ask themselves why, supposedly, the British didn't realize they had a "headspace" issue in every single manufacturing facility making these rifles for over a century, and through three wars?
Just kept making improperly cut chambers for decade after decade, and never noticed? Equally weird that most of these "excess headspace" rifles properly pass a go/no-go military gauge test - despite supposedly having "excess headspace"?
You would almost start to think like maybe there is nothing 'excess' about the chambers: they are cut just as they were intended to be: for use in war, not as a source of brass for collectors decades later. In fact, almost like they intended chambers larger then reloaders desire so that ball ammunition manufactured to spec but covered in mud, corrosion, etc will reliably chamber rather than jam the rifle during a battle. Who'd a thunk it!
2.55: "That leads to brass stretching in the chamber after detonation, and it greatly stresses the brass near the case head".
It does - IF you didn't properly prepare and resize your brass prior to reloading. Or properly prep your new brass prior to first firing.
Why would a supposedly knowledgeable handloader not prize the fact that every time they fire the rifle they now have fireformed brass not unlike benchrest competitors? So instead of full length resizing so that case stretch repeats up until early failure, they neck/collet size to get long life (and probably better accuracy) from their cases due to eliminating most of the case stretch.
After all, if the head of the case is tight against the bolt face at the back and shoulder/false shoulder at the front of the case is tight against the chamber shoulder at the front... where can the brass stretch to, other than directly outwards to the chamber walls?
It might be a clue that competitors in Service Rifle competition almost without exception do collet or neck sizing. Maybe they aren't satisfied with a low reload count due to foolishly and improperly resizing. Apparently, all their rifles are magically free of all these "excess headspace" issues.
Good video. Just a suggestion, I full length resize my brass but I take a spent round from my rifle and measure off the shoulder and just bump it back .002"-.003". They might not chamber in someone else's rifle but I get many, many reloads from them. I keep them sorted in batches also and when I start seeing problems I toss the lot. I also shoot a lot of cast bullets. I use a Lee 160 grain .312 mould and I powder coat them. With a good charge of AA5744 I can turn up just over 2000 fps and after many hundreds of rounds I've seen no leading and they are cheap, very easy on the bore and at 100 yards will hold 2" or so groups. My biggest concern is having a lone Berdan primed case get through and bust my decapping pin.
I've got a guy who is selling ww2 303 british for ~45 cents a round, mostly UK made, packed on belts, and stored in canada and south africa before being surplused.
That's a pretty sweet price -- just remember those would be almost certainly be cordite loaded rounds which cause increased erosion in the chamber throat. Also they'll be Berdan primed which are difficult to re-prime if you want to use the brass. Clean well after shooting!
"Boil out " the barrel in the old military fashion to remove all the corrosive mercuric salts from the primers or the barrel will be ruined in short order,otherwise fine.I used some POF Pakistan Ordinance Factory which had some hang-fires so was christened the "click-bang " ammo,not conducive to accurate shooting.
Great video very educational
Just fired new casings and fire form for my Enfield P 14 ,and after neck sizing the casing comes out between 2.203 / 2.209 , it should be 2.212
Is that normal, is it safe to reload them?
Thank you
It *should* be safe to reload them though that low end of 2.203 is pretty darned low. You didn't mention it so I assume you didn't trim them to that length -- what did they start out at? Hard to answer normal is in this specific case without knowing that. What brand are they? They would have to have *grown* to that length.
Anyway, I've occasionally gotten a little too enthusiastic with trimming (particularly with .223 for some reason), and never experienced an issue with a case 0.009" too short.
Thank you for your prompt response
I use brand new casing from PPU aol 2.215 .fired once , didn’t trimmed them , just neck sizing
@@alainwelonek5972 I'm puzzled. I use PPU brass for .303B myself. Granted, I don't fire form and neck size them (I only full-size and I've been considering a video on why I don't care for neck sizing), but I find it odd that you'd see that variation in length after doing so.
Well, the good news is that I've gone wackadoo with the trimmer in the past and probably gone down to 2.203 accidentally, loaded and fired those rounds and lived to tell the tale. You should be fine.
Does mean, though, that if you seat the bullet in slightly deeper to compensate for the shorter neck, you will create slightly higher pressures when shooting. I doubt enough to matter, but something you may want to model in Gordon's Reloading Tool if you're curious.
PPU is in my opinion the best brass to use at least as far as the .303 British round is concerned. In pursuit of service rifle match accuracy for competition, I have measured the hell out of WWII Mk VII ball ammo and the very fine (and sadly no longer available) Greek HXP ball ammunition. And used those measurements in comparison to the .303 brass available from today's manufacturers. PPU is closest in rim/head dimensions, internal volume, and case weight. Most competitors I shoot with agree on that, although they didn't go down the measurement rabbit hole as I did.
Did you trim or at least measure your new case lengths before loading and first firing? The last 200 cases I bought from Grafs I didn't bother; I always trim new brass to length and then chamfer the mouths before creating the false shoulder for first firing.
I don't worry about what the book says ANY caliber length should be, within the variations of chambers. 2.212" is the MAXIMUM length for the round. Unless radically shorter, all that you have is less neck supporting the seated bullet. And losing a hundredth of an inch isn't going to do a single thing either way in a military surplus or common hunting rifle.
Generally speaking, I would find the shortest case lengths after collet (or neck) resizing, then set up my trimmer to just clean up the shortest cases' mouths to being square, then trim all the cases back to that length, chamfer, reload, rinse and repeat.
If I started seeing wild variations in case length after doing this trimming operation once... then yes, as Winnie The Poo would say 'It's a puzzlement', and I would be curious.
Great info.
Thanks mate!
Good info
I just reloaded some .303 British brass with .312 Hornady hunting rounds. I tried chambering those rounds into my SMLE No. 1 Mk iii* , and I struggled to load rounds into the bore and securely lock down the bolt. How dangerous is this? Will shooting those rounds destroy my gun’s rifling or even caused the barrel to explode? I’m a bit worried.
Without being there it's hard for me to diagnose exactly what's going on but my initial guess would be that the problem isn't the bullet you used but that the brass is having problems being chambered. How did you size the brass -- full size or neck size?
Also, is the brass brand new or have you used it a bunch? It could also be that you bumped the shoulder back a bit too far which caused a small ring to form there and make it difficult to chamber the round.
I disagree with your opinion about not using brass from one rifle to the next. A full length resizing die should iron out any aberrations in a case from an odd chamber. I've been reloading for 38 years.
Fair enough. I think in most rifles it's not an issue -- I just find that Lee Enfields often have those head spacing issues and I've heard too many stories of people using brass from one LE to another and having premature failures.
Of course, they could also be using tired brass and a failure was going to happen regardless.
My calculation brings me to about 0.69 per round assuming you already have the brass from previously shot 303. Using Campro 180JSP, IMR 4350 powder and CCI primers. WHat is the cost you are seeing out there?
My current cost, assuming brass doesn't count, is 78-cents Canadian using BL-C(2), Hornady #3130 bullets and Winchester WLR primers.
303 galley loads would be fantastic to know
Funny you mention that, I have been mulling over doing something about reduced power loads. Unfortunately with ranges closed where I am I haven't had a chance to start working on it.
I use Adi equivalent to H 4895 for reduced 303 Brit loads with gas checked 195gn cast bullets .
I didn’t know the headspace issue was so common, I thought my magazine was busted or something
How common -- particularly for Lee Enfields -- is up for debate but it certainly is a known issue. I know on both my rifles that it is a consideration I have to take into account. Regardless of the surplus rifle it's always a good idea to measure headspace when reloading -- it only aids in accuracy and brass longevity.
Steve M Outdoors , just acquired one have not fired it yet, will check head space first, thanks
i like this video, i own a SMLE Lithgow mark 2 303 British 1942 and do you know any issues on Lithgow 303 mark 2
To be honest with you I haven't heard anything negative about those particular rifles. About the only thing I would state is to see if the bolt is original to the rifle. If it's not original then you *could* have head spacing issues but if you don't reload that isn't much to worry about. If you do the standard tricks will help mitigate that issue. Only way to be sure is, if you are concerned, to headspace it to see where it's at.
thanks @@TheRedneckPreppy
And thank you for stopping by@@robswoodworking4380 !
@@TheRedneckPreppy thats ok i have my pops Lithgow 303 from ww2 and have you herd of people barrelling the 303 to 270 calibre as there is a site in Australia that I've barrelled 303 to 270.
First I heard of rebarrelling the LE. Not sure the purist in me likes that :-)@@robswoodworking4380
What do they say ; Eraer on the side of coushon don't blow up your gun's
I read that sammi say do not exceed 45,009 osi
I didn’t think .303 was repairable due to the berdan primer.
Did you mean reloadable?
@ yes I did, those damn fat fingers of mine. I thought they are berdan primed and that meant you could not reload them. I have a Mk IV that I’ve shot about 1200 rounds through. It’s been with a combination of
here is something to notice just because you fired your brass from new in your rifle doesn't mean you can reload it. because of headspace issues I've seen lots of once fired brass that has a bulge that only spans half way around the case about .5cm above case head I've seen ripples in the same area from some. this brass is done. I pick this brass up all the time at the range an send to recycle pays for the brass I have to buy. I've only seen these issues with lee enfield rifles, not in p14's or other hunting rifles in this calibre.
It truly is amazing how much a Lee Enfield can hammer brass...I used to marvel at the job my SVT-40 did on brass but Lee Enfield's can be much worse.
yup. what he said. all 12:49 of it.
Thank you!
A dollar to a dollar fifty....I wish. 3.50 each shooting federals
The video was four years ago, ha ha. I hear you, though.
I understood the Lee Enfield was designed so as to be easily shimmed to adjust the head spacing, obviously by trained personnel.
That could be, but I have to say that I've never heard that before. Then again, I don't have access to the armour's manuals that they used back then :-)
The Lee Enfield have 12 different bolt heads which are interchangeable to correct the head space which is measured on the case rim not the case shoulder.
@@johnutting9615 O.K. thanks John.
@@johnutting9615 TWELVE DIFFERENT BOLT HEADS? Try four.
@@AirborneMOC031 thats ok I do not mind being corrected I always understood that there were about 12 but i stsndccorrected ,i only shot them.
What’s the problem in America you people have .303 bullets very expensive and hard to get? I’m from Pakistan and have a MK4 Lee-Enfield; bullets here are 80cents each. I normally buy like 10 for 7$ I would say. And could anyone of you Americans tell me how much is a MK4 jungle version in USA?
The cheapest way to load .303 is to use bulk surplus 7.62 X 54 components. Use the bullets and powder in 303 cases, doing that will give you non corrosive 303. The powder from the Russian stuff at least performs identical to BLC-2. There will be powder to spare which can be used for other reloads.
Whoa there! That is bad advice. The Mosin-Nagant cartridge is NOT the same as the .303 British cartridge. I just checked my Lee and my Lyman reloading manuals. The M-N uses a .310 OR a .308 caliber bullet. The .303 British cartridge uses a .311, or .312 bullet. Some bores on the Lee-Enfield rifles have been as small as .308 to .317 !!! Be careful people!
According to my 48th Edition Lyman manual, .303 British cartridge starting powder grains of IMR-4895 for the 174 grain jacketed bullet is 37.0 grains.
The 7.62x54R Russian cartridge with a 174 grain bullet, using IMR-4895 powder is 41.0 grains. Do NOT think that you can interchange components!
Buy a printed Reloading manual people! Lyman & Lee are very good. Only load what the tested and printed manuals say is safe! Save yourself from a trip to the Emergency Room or the morgue!
@@gusloader123 All the 7.62 X 54r ammo that I use, both Russian and Chinese have 147 grain bullets. The Russian Mosin bullets mic at .310 and the Chinese Mosin bullets mic at . 311. Both shoot very well in my three Lee Enfield's
I also shoot 7.62X39 bullets which mic at .311 with Polish and Chinese ammo. I don't use the powder in 303 ammo. These are also good to shoot in 7.62X54r ammo, they shoot very flat, and make huge orange fireballs. Try it before you die of boredom.😁
The Lee-Enfield also has a replaceable bolt head. It was how British armorers handled head spacing to get the rifles quickly back in service. They come in different sizes. I would caution getting go no go gauges however.
Go-No Go gauges are always an excellent idea when it comes to these sorts of things. I've been meaning to do a video on them for some time.
First step, buy a different rifle without all the chamber and headspace issues these are famous for.
That is madness, sir. Madness.
The Enfield should be a case study in how not to build a bolt action rifle.
I have original cordite ammo 🤣
Nice! It's getting harder all the time to find that stuff.
$1 - $1.50. Obviously US dollars.
Commercial produced .303 British, such as PPU, generally runs about $30 for a box of 20 around where I live in northern Ontario which is just under $1.50.