Steve Guttenberg had a segment one time where he was over at a guy's house and the guy was taking the viewer through his system. Okay, so the guest was buying stuff at or around a price point right around where I aspired to. I thought he had a great system! I posted my remark: "You have a system that I aspire to!" Some guy commented on my post, "You obviously don't aspire to much." I thought, "What a d*ck" but I didn't respond to him because it's Steve's show and I thought it wasn't my place to rip into the guy. For the record, I'm 58 years old - old enough to be Jay's dad (scary thought, I know!) and I am die hard fan and paying subscriber to Jay's show. He's provided loads of great advice to me personally. I also love these forums that Audio Excellence does. If I ever make my way to Toronto area, I would love to stop in and say hello! Keep up the great work.
Adrian, Jay, Vilip. Thank you so much for your video. I probably won’t purchase from you since I am in North Carolina. I hope that is okay. Your video has convinced me to shop my local audio store again versus elsewhere to save 10%. My local store has given me so much advice there is not a price for that. I have purchased thousands from them but lately have shopped for discounts. No more, unless they don’t carry brand I am looking for. Thanks again and stay positive.
The only place I have witnessed direct gear shaming is in the comments section of YT. For me as a forty seven year old who's long past caring what trolls have to say I don't pay them any attention. But I remember being a young man without much knowledge or experience who could be easily dissuaded by such garbage. However, all you can do about that is tell the younger crowd to ignore those morons. The bigger problem though, as it often is with anything, isn't the direct critics but the indirect criticism from those trying to help. I have witnessed indirect criticism/shaming from those trying to help because they forget that not everyone wants to climb to the top of the mountain and they can't understand how one could ever be satisfied with a stereo receiver or a pair of speakers one could get at Best Buy. So they say things like, Yeah, that Yamaha 801 you got is really great for the money....BUT.... pretty soon you're going to want to MOVE UP to something a little nicer. Or. Man, I remember loving those Polk speakers you've got when I was younger. And don't get me wrong, they're great for what they are....BUT....soon you're going to want something a little more high end. In each example the person might be correct but they aren't helping foster interest. Instead they're basically telling someone that whatever choice they've made it's not right, not good enough or that to be a real audiophile (without directly saying it) you can't be happy with more commonplace gear. And yes, some people get their feelings hurt a little too easily but those in the game a long time need to be mindful of how they present the next level. Or even the idea that there is a next level. Show, don't tell. Those who it sparks a passion in will ask more questions or seek more on their own.
Compliments to all. What you are presenting is, trust. You are having a dialogue on and of ethics! If I were in Canada, I'd want to visit the store! Very nice!
Without brick and mortar stores like yours I would never be able to demo equipment and speakers. In addition, the relationships developed, the trust in knowledge transfer cannot be done via the internet. I don’t mind investing in the people who support this industry and to be fair on both sides when dealing. So, thank you for your honesty and helping people make good audio decisions regardless of budget. I have an audio store in the U.S. who understands their clients and does what they can, always but there is a limit, rightly so.
The solution to most of the ills of the hifi industry is for hobbyists to physically meet up on their own. The DIY audio community does this with more frequency and it has helped their community tremendously. Local audio societies were common in the 70s and 80s. These communities allowed hobbyists experience a wider range of gear, put audio theories to test, and manufacturers/ retailers an opportunity to get a better feel for what their customers want and need. Much of the online bickering gets laid to rest when those who bicker have to prove their ideas in the real world in front of their audio peers.
Great to see younger people like Jay out talking about audio and learning how the craft works ,but maybe you guys can bring some good Canadian audio like Moon or paradigm into the Conversation.
Thanks for putting a more human face on the business, guys! I hope that, at some point in time, I'll be able to be not just a subscriber but a client...
Really great discussion. We all need to remember (and realize) why we take part in this thing called audio. For those that cannot stay connected with the creativity and art form of making music and the genius, innovation and creativity that has given us amazing reproduction of music need to find something else to pick on. Like most things going on technology has made audio seem “simple” which we all know it is not. Music and audio is all about true diversity of thought and ideas and that will prevail. The question is how do we raise and keep the value up....which should be comparable to, Rembrandt. Thanks for the videos.
I just want to say, you guys are awesome 👏. Adrian, thanks for recognizing your friend in the auto industry. It’s a tough gig getting people to part with their money. Especially when they don’t see the value in what you offer. Your time and knowledge. I’m just glad I’m not local because Vilip would have me walking out of there with a $5K DAC😂. I learn a lot from you guys. I value your opinions and knowledge no matter what your ages. I’m older than you guys but recognize your passion in a field I know little but learn something everyday. Quite often the “text” or “comment” doesn’t reflect the true intent, so sometimes the true meaning of a statement is misinterpreted. Take care and keep doing what you’re doing and get Vilip a mic on a boom.
As a fellow Canadian audio dealer, I'll just say great job guys. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. 100% agree that dealers and people in the industry do this because it's a passion. The relationships built and sharing the passion of music is what makes this hobby and business so rewarding.
A young guy is telling you what’s happening to young people. It’s great that YOU haven’t seen it but why not just accept what Jay is saying? I’m older too and I would never challenge a younger person who is telling me what is happening. Jay clearly has a pulse on the younger people in the industry
The issue on bargaining is due the sad reality of gear becoming increasingly commoditized, the wealth of free reviews and being widely available for purchase online or through other distributors. Perhaps brick and motor shops should charge a demo or consulting fee moving forward, that can be refunded upon purchase above $x. I agree that there's indeed value given if a demo is done well with comparisons made + consulting. Boils down to the overall consumer experience.
Jay has more experience (obviously) than most "audiophiles". Remember, a wise man will learn more from a fool than a fool from a wise man. Jay is no fool, in my book he is a young professional.
In the UK there was an increase in sales of home entertainment. I bought a new pre and power amp and streamer as I had more time for my hobby . And I agree with Jay about trolls on hifi forums. And its great to see Jay on this channel.
We need more young people in specialist audio. More ladies in that demographic too, though that would be even tougher it would seem. Otherwise, it's just game over.
I can't comprehend why true audiophiles can become nasty trolls. This is such a peace-loving happy hobby. Due to Pride or snobbery perhaps? Similarly, perhaps wine connoisseurs may similarly frown upon those who appreciate wine but can only afford entry-level bottles. They're everywhere I guess, we just need to learn to mentally shut out their nasties. Unfortunately, it might just 1 nasty comment to bring down 10 or more good comments received.
Anonymous posting should be discouraged. It allows people to hide as opposed to owning their statements. BTW Mr. Olivera, in the retail world an example of 50% markup is paying $10 for an item and retailing it at $20.
Some eye opening and candid conversations about our nitch hobby. I really enjoy this hobby and maybe more so today. Back in the late nineties and early 2000s I actually thought of getting into this as a career. And at the same time seeing every brick and mortar store in the area disappear. The ones that survived or held on to the end were ones associated with custom home theater/audio installs. With the rise of the Internet it just made it tough for stores to survive. Folks using the stores for advice and window shop before buying the same thing online for less. Like you said, nobody gets rich in retail selling hifi. But this is a hobby i at one point thought I could do this for fun and didn't care what I would make as your doing what you love. I can relegate to some of the negative stuff Jay mentions with regards to online shamming like the forums. You see some folks that claim what they know is gospel and that's it or only say measurements matter or putting new folks down for having lower gear or having questions newbie questions that others think is obvious they should know. I can draw parallels with other expensive hobbys like folks into cars. You see folks with expensive rides dismiss others that dont have the means and get something less expesive. And this applies to our nitch audio hobby as well. Like Adrian said it's a small portion but some of these folks certainly don't help grow the hobby. Or somebody claiming just because Jay is young he don't have the experience. We all started somewhere and your always learning in this hobby. Some are really quick to form opinions. By and large their are a ton of really nice folks out there in this hobby. Been studying more on the diy part of our audio hobby and their are so many folks willing to help you build working amps, preamps, speakers etc in forums (mostly pass labs forum). Thank you jay, Adrian and Philip! It would definately be a interesting follow up that would raise some eyebrows about the practice of distributors firing their reps. I'm sure this would lead to more condid conversations!
The ugly is the Home Theater part of this hobby. The on-line forums have become vile and has been for years.. Unless you have the same opinions about brands and set up, you're the enemy and outsider. The hobby in itself wether be two channel stereo or multi channel, has become extremely unfriendly and divided. That's what needs to be discussed. Your local experience in Canada is probably the way you described it. However, from a global perspective, this hobby is divided and full of hate, dislike for people who have different opinions and manipulative arrogant know it all bs... that's the reality that noone is talking about.
I find in the audio industry some bad physics to sell wildly overpriced cables. Such electromagnetism as skin effect are "corrected" at great expense of insulating individual wire strands or litz construction. Nobody who designs loudspeaker cables and sells them has calculated how much skin effect lowers the conductivity of a typical speaker cable: increasing the resistance of the cable by about 0.01 Ohms at 20 kHz over DC. In series with 4 Ohm speakers the highest frequencies you can hear are less than 0.01 db rolled off. Differences in signal path due to the signal jumping between uninsulated strands cause a spreading out and smearing the signal destroying imaging and soundstage. The problem is at the speed of light a difference of a few millimeters is on the order of 10 to the minus ten seconds. There are other junk science sales pitches such as insulation reacting to the modest voltages. The attitude is because the average customer does not have the graduate school physics training to see it they are considered under Darwinism of the marketplace deserving to be cheated out of their money through decept ion and marketing skill. Another example is a $350,000 amplifier can be built for $2000 in retail prices for parts.
I use 8 gauge solid core Copper House Ground bare wire for my Subwoofer, I pass the wire through heavy drinking straws with little contact to the Copper skin. Cheap with GREAT Quality!
@@danguzman4676 You probably do not need the straws. Dipole molecule orientation to the minuscule electric field of a speaker cable can be tested by having the speaker disconnected from one set of cables with the other set of cables still connected to the speaker but disconnected from the amplifier. Both sets of cables should be in close contact with each other with insulation toughing. If the insulation materiel added some distortion signal to the wires connected to the speaker you would be able to hear it.
@@drbarney1000 ok, thanks. How about the audible difference reported by keeping speaker wire off the floor. For my Subwoofer I can hear the difference from a 12 gauge flexible strand wire too the Solid Core 8 gauge bare house ground cable, & i like it. As long as I rarely have to move them & line up a good contact point. They say bending copper wire often will reduce strength & reduce performance. I wonder if any others have used 8 gauge House Copper Ground wire for Sub or speakers. See,I think outside of the Box.
Steve Guttenberg had a segment one time where he was over at a guy's house and the guy was taking the viewer through his system. Okay, so the guest was buying stuff at or around a price point right around where I aspired to. I thought he had a great system! I posted my remark: "You have a system that I aspire to!" Some guy commented on my post, "You obviously don't aspire to much." I thought, "What a d*ck" but I didn't respond to him because it's Steve's show and I thought it wasn't my place to rip into the guy. For the record, I'm 58 years old - old enough to be Jay's dad (scary thought, I know!) and I am die hard fan and paying subscriber to Jay's show. He's provided loads of great advice to me personally. I also love these forums that Audio Excellence does. If I ever make my way to Toronto area, I would love to stop in and say hello! Keep up the great work.
Thanks guys. I kind of enjoying your casual chatting. Relaxing and honesty, It feels warm that I am among my families. Keep it up.
Adrian, Jay, Vilip. Thank you so much for your video. I probably won’t purchase from you since I am in North Carolina. I hope that is okay. Your video has convinced me to shop my local audio store again versus elsewhere to save 10%. My local store has given me so much advice there is not a price for that. I have purchased thousands from them but lately have shopped for discounts. No more, unless they don’t carry brand I am looking for. Thanks again and stay positive.
The only place I have witnessed direct gear shaming is in the comments section of YT. For me as a forty seven year old who's long past caring what trolls have to say I don't pay them any attention. But I remember being a young man without much knowledge or experience who could be easily dissuaded by such garbage. However, all you can do about that is tell the younger crowd to ignore those morons. The bigger problem though, as it often is with anything, isn't the direct critics but the indirect criticism from those trying to help. I have witnessed indirect criticism/shaming from those trying to help because they forget that not everyone wants to climb to the top of the mountain and they can't understand how one could ever be satisfied with a stereo receiver or a pair of speakers one could get at Best Buy. So they say things like, Yeah, that Yamaha 801 you got is really great for the money....BUT.... pretty soon you're going to want to MOVE UP to something a little nicer. Or. Man, I remember loving those Polk speakers you've got when I was younger. And don't get me wrong, they're great for what they are....BUT....soon you're going to want something a little more high end. In each example the person might be correct but they aren't helping foster interest. Instead they're basically telling someone that whatever choice they've made it's not right, not good enough or that to be a real audiophile (without directly saying it) you can't be happy with more commonplace gear. And yes, some people get their feelings hurt a little too easily but those in the game a long time need to be mindful of how they present the next level. Or even the idea that there is a next level. Show, don't tell. Those who it sparks a passion in will ask more questions or seek more on their own.
Compliments to all. What you are presenting is, trust. You are having a dialogue on and of ethics! If I were in Canada, I'd want to visit the store! Very nice!
Without brick and mortar stores like yours I would never be able to demo equipment and speakers. In addition, the relationships developed, the trust in knowledge transfer cannot be done via the internet. I don’t mind investing in the people who support this industry and to be fair on both sides when dealing. So, thank you for your honesty and helping people make good audio decisions regardless of budget. I have an audio store in the U.S. who understands their clients and does what they can, always but there is a limit, rightly so.
The solution to most of the ills of the hifi industry is for hobbyists to physically meet up on their own. The DIY audio community does this with more frequency and it has helped their community tremendously. Local audio societies were common in the 70s and 80s. These communities allowed hobbyists experience a wider range of gear, put audio theories to test, and manufacturers/ retailers an opportunity to get a better feel for what their customers want and need. Much of the online bickering gets laid to rest when those who bicker have to prove their ideas in the real world in front of their audio peers.
Love the topic! Great candid discussion. I just wish the voice levels were more similar across the people speaking. Thanks!
I miss being able to talk to other audiophiles in person at audio stores. It's a FAR richer experience!
Great to see younger people like Jay out talking about audio and learning how the craft works ,but maybe you guys can bring some good Canadian audio like Moon or paradigm into the Conversation.
Thanks for putting a more human face on the business, guys! I hope that, at some point in time, I'll be able to be not just a subscriber but a client...
Really great discussion. We all need to remember (and realize) why we take part in this thing called audio. For those that cannot stay connected with the creativity and art form of making music and the genius, innovation and creativity that has given us amazing reproduction of music need to find something else to pick on. Like most things going on technology has made audio seem “simple” which we all know it is not. Music and audio is all about true diversity of thought and ideas and that will prevail. The question is how do we raise and keep the value up....which should be comparable to, Rembrandt. Thanks for the videos.
I just want to say, you guys are awesome 👏. Adrian, thanks for recognizing your friend in the auto industry. It’s a tough gig getting people to part with their money. Especially when they don’t see the value in what you offer. Your time and knowledge. I’m just glad I’m not local because Vilip would have me walking out of there with a $5K DAC😂. I learn a lot from you guys. I value your opinions and knowledge no matter what your ages. I’m older than you guys but recognize your passion in a field I know little but learn something everyday. Quite often the “text” or “comment” doesn’t reflect the true intent, so sometimes the true meaning of a statement is misinterpreted. Take care and keep doing what you’re doing and get Vilip a mic on a boom.
Keep being positive! You three are awesome!
As a fellow Canadian audio dealer, I'll just say great job guys. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. 100% agree that dealers and people in the industry do this because it's a passion. The relationships built and sharing the passion of music is what makes this hobby and business so rewarding.
A young guy is telling you what’s happening to young people. It’s great that YOU haven’t seen it but why not just accept what Jay is saying? I’m older too and I would never challenge a younger person who is telling me what is happening. Jay clearly has a pulse on the younger people in the industry
Wonderful chat, Thanks again for your genuine and candid explanations.... all businesses share similar threads... you enrich ours through our ears...
The issue on bargaining is due the sad reality of gear becoming increasingly commoditized, the wealth of free reviews and being widely available for purchase online or through other distributors. Perhaps brick and motor shops should charge a demo or consulting fee moving forward, that can be refunded upon purchase above $x. I agree that there's indeed value given if a demo is done well with comparisons made + consulting. Boils down to the overall consumer experience.
Jay has more experience (obviously) than most "audiophiles".
Remember, a wise man will learn more from a fool than a fool from a wise man.
Jay is no fool, in my book he is a young professional.
In the UK there was an increase in sales of home entertainment. I bought a new pre and power amp and streamer as I had more time for my hobby .
And I agree with Jay about trolls on hifi forums. And its great to see Jay on this channel.
I wish i was close to a shop like yours
I’m a fan of Villips shorts! If they were shorter I’d have a hand full of dollar bills out
Adrian you are a pretty smart man. Great video !
Thanks
We need more young people in specialist audio. More ladies in that demographic too, though that would be even tougher it would seem. Otherwise, it's just game over.
I can't comprehend why true audiophiles can become nasty trolls. This is such a peace-loving happy hobby. Due to Pride or snobbery perhaps? Similarly, perhaps wine connoisseurs may similarly frown upon those who appreciate wine but can only afford entry-level bottles. They're everywhere I guess, we just need to learn to mentally shut out their nasties. Unfortunately, it might just 1 nasty comment to bring down 10 or more good comments received.
Anonymous posting should be discouraged. It allows people to hide as opposed to owning their statements.
BTW Mr. Olivera, in the retail world an example of 50% markup is paying $10 for an item and retailing it at $20.
Some eye opening and candid conversations about our nitch hobby. I really enjoy this hobby and maybe more so today. Back in the late nineties and early 2000s I actually thought of getting into this as a career. And at the same time seeing every brick and mortar store in the area disappear. The ones that survived or held on to the end were ones associated with custom home theater/audio installs. With the rise of the Internet it just made it tough for stores to survive. Folks using the stores for advice and window shop before buying the same thing online for less. Like you said, nobody gets rich in retail selling hifi. But this is a hobby i at one point thought I could do this for fun and didn't care what I would make as your doing what you love. I can relegate to some of the negative stuff Jay mentions with regards to online shamming like the forums. You see some folks that claim what they know is gospel and that's it or only say measurements matter or putting new folks down for having lower gear or having questions newbie questions that others think is obvious they should know. I can draw parallels with other expensive hobbys like folks into cars. You see folks with expensive rides dismiss others that dont have the means and get something less expesive. And this applies to our nitch audio hobby as well. Like Adrian said it's a small portion but some of these folks certainly don't help grow the hobby. Or somebody claiming just because Jay is young he don't have the experience. We all started somewhere and your always learning in this hobby. Some are really quick to form opinions. By and large their are a ton of really nice folks out there in this hobby. Been studying more on the diy part of our audio hobby and their are so many folks willing to help you build working amps, preamps, speakers etc in forums (mostly pass labs forum). Thank you jay, Adrian and Philip! It would definately be a interesting follow up that would raise some eyebrows about the practice of distributors firing their reps. I'm sure this would lead to more condid conversations!
Gear shaming is real, for sure. Young folks are really trying to get into audio and want to learn. Help them and be a mentor or inspiration.
Nothing wrong with discounting, plenty of good dealers willing provide a reasonable discount, even on Hegel which I dont think Audio Excellence does.
And for the other 2 guys , just ignore those stupid comments. Those people just don’t have anything better to do.
The ugly is the Home Theater part of this hobby. The on-line forums have become vile and has been for years.. Unless you have the same opinions about brands and set up, you're the enemy and outsider. The hobby in itself wether be two channel stereo or multi channel, has become extremely unfriendly and divided. That's what needs to be discussed. Your local experience in Canada is probably the way you described it. However, from a global perspective, this hobby is divided and full of hate, dislike for people who have different opinions and manipulative arrogant know it all bs... that's the reality that noone is talking about.
Hey guy's, I just got the Willeston amp and i Love it! Its sounds amazing? Now should isell it so I can get a PrimaLuna amp?
Are you having a look at the new Classé?
Where did you get your hat phil,i would like to have one!
Look on the McIntosh Website. They sell lots of accessories.
We don't know who is posting bashing message. We cannot know their age.
Shaming happens in pretty much everything. It’s sad that people can often be such butt holes.
Poor Jay doesn't realize owners like Adrian are making bank, just not lowly employees like him.
I find in the audio industry some bad physics to sell wildly overpriced cables. Such electromagnetism as skin effect are "corrected" at great expense of insulating individual wire strands or litz construction. Nobody who designs loudspeaker cables and sells them has calculated how much skin effect lowers the conductivity of a typical speaker cable: increasing the resistance of the cable by about 0.01 Ohms at 20 kHz over DC. In series with 4 Ohm speakers the highest frequencies you can hear are less than 0.01 db rolled off. Differences in signal path due to the signal jumping between uninsulated strands cause a spreading out and smearing the signal destroying imaging and soundstage. The problem is at the speed of light a difference of a few millimeters is on the order of 10 to the minus ten seconds. There are other junk science sales pitches such as insulation reacting to the modest voltages. The attitude is because the average customer does not have the graduate school physics training to see it they are considered under Darwinism of the marketplace deserving to be cheated out of their money through decept
ion and marketing skill. Another example is a $350,000 amplifier can be built for $2000 in retail prices for parts.
I use 8 gauge solid core Copper House Ground bare wire for my Subwoofer, I pass the wire through heavy drinking straws with little contact to the Copper skin. Cheap with GREAT Quality!
@@danguzman4676 You probably do not need the straws. Dipole molecule orientation to the minuscule electric field of a speaker cable can be tested by having the speaker disconnected from one set of cables with the other set of cables still connected to the speaker but disconnected from the amplifier. Both sets of cables should be in close contact with each other with insulation toughing. If the insulation materiel added some distortion signal to the wires connected to the speaker you would be able to hear it.
@@drbarney1000 ok, thanks. How about the audible difference reported by keeping speaker wire off the floor. For my Subwoofer I can hear the difference from a 12 gauge flexible strand wire too the Solid Core 8 gauge bare house ground cable, & i like it. As long as I rarely have to move them & line up a good contact point. They say bending copper wire often will reduce strength & reduce performance. I wonder if any others have used 8 gauge House Copper Ground wire for Sub or speakers. See,I think outside of the Box.
Vids far to long
Audiophiles can be jerks. How do I know? because I've been a jerk sometimes! I'm being a jerk right now over at Andrew Robinson's channel!
Seriously, go check it out. I'm terrible!
@@trekjudas Over at his channel nothing is bad everything is good, buy anything and its audiophile level.
@@trekjudas are you audiophile version of Trump? You write like him!
cheese JESUS, MAN! I’M JOKING!!
cheese you know how? ACTUAL JERKS DON’T THINK THEY’RE JERKS!