Gold smelting 101, Part 2: Gold Smelting Techniques, Flux, & Collector Metal for Maximum Recovery
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2023
- Welcome back to the next chapter of our enthralling journey into gold smelting and refining! In this exciting video, we delve deeper into the fascinating realm of smelting sulfides as we strive to uncover the perfect flux recipe and determine the optimal amount of collector metal to recover the highest percentage of gold. Join me as I share the progress of my ongoing smelting experiments, where I explore the delicate balance between cost, effort, and gold recovery.
Curious to know the results? Did I achieve a remarkable percentage of gold recovery, or did some slip through the cracks? Brace yourself for the revelation as we uncover the truth in this captivating video. If you're passionate about gold smelting and refining, this is a must-watch that promises to expand your knowledge and fuel your curiosity.
Get ready to embark on this exhilarating adventure and unlock the secrets of maximizing gold recovery while minimizing costs. Subscribe to our channel and hit the notification bell to be the first to witness the unveiling of our latest findings and discoveries. Don't miss out!
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Keywords:
smelting sulfides, gold smelting, gold refining, flux recipe, collector metal, gold recovery, cost and effort optimization, gold yield, smelting experiments, gold loss, gold refining techniques, gold refining process
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#goldsmelting #goldrefining #fluxrecipe #collectormetal #goldrecovery #costoptimization #efficiency #smeltingexperiments #goldyield #goldloss #goldrefinery #goldrecoveryprocess
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As an old Chief Geologist, I must say that 1. This was a great way to show people the math and science involved with recoveries and, 2. You triggered PTSD in me remembering the month-end reconciliations between projected and actual from the mill at the mines I've worked at. I think that the only thing you didn't mention was moisture content on the ore going in LOL. Did it rain on your ore pile? How much rain? Meh. I'm over that now and just go fishing.
You rock Rockbutcher!
Sounds like good old times. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤fond memories, etc. 😢😮😅😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I loved learning to fly fish. That was a treat. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
You need intimate contact between ore and collector metal. Litharge provides that and bismuth lumps do not. Also, we were a referee lab in a case regarding high gold assay values from the sellers lab that wasn't reproduced buy the buyers lab. Incomplete cupelation of bismuth was the culprit. (I had 7 years lab experience Colorado School of Mines Research Institute in the late '70s and early '80s. (Fire assay was not my speciality but helped out from time to time.)
I have no interest in ever attempting any precious metal recovery, but I love watching your videos, Jason. They are so informative and you explain everything in such great detail. I consider it somewhat of an artform. Thank you for all of the hard work and dedication you put into bringing us awesome content. 👍
Good Grief to Mighty Jason!! Back in the classroom - my head is spinning! I need to wait a day and then watch this one again! Fantastic job! Big 'thumbs up'!! Thank You! Jim
Excellent video series Jason,
I think it's important to note (and I think you alluded to this), if you come up with a high recovery process that can be easily repeated but lose, say 5% to slag, you can always just accumulate a bunch of slags and re-crush/smelt those slags to recover a large chunk of those metals lost in the production process along the way bringing your losses down from 5% to maybe 1-2%.
What are the reasons you don't roast the sulfide cons to drive off the sulfur before doing any smelting? Is it the environmental aspect of driving off the sulfur as sulfur oxides? Or the added cost of fuel?
Build an air roaster, roast your ore, add KNO3 back into the smelt and go back to lead. And I seam to recall an extreme outlier in an old book I read losing 18 percent of a known amount of gold into a bone ash crucible. Though 2-12% was normal. I recently learned that what the cows eat effects the quality of bone ash porcelain because of the mineral content of the bone.
You may well be on to something.The nails seem to be consumed near the surface.
🤣🤣👍👍
@16:00 the sped up cone mold pour is really the best shot of the day! Watching this is very intriguing of what is happening.
Oh happy days!!
Saturday gold cartoons!!
Thank you Jason 🙏 ❤
Daughter coming in clutch to make data easy to read! Love it! (My daughter is 7 and she loves to look at rocks of all kinds!)
I will likely never use this information but watching you nerd out over this is spectacular.
Hi Jason. My name is Matt G. My prospecting team, Mojave Mining Co. is in its infancy but I'm really looking forward to learning more from you and possibly doing business with you as well here in the near future. My step-father is the brains of the operation and I throw him ideas I think will be beneficial and your videos were what I first sent his way. None of us are geologists, we just have an amazing claim and very good assays so far and our whole team is putting full effort into this because we know we are sitting on, well, a gold mine.
We are all learning as we go and I study all your videos, and if all goes well you'll be hearing from us here in the very near future.
Hi Matt - I'm curious if you are associated with the company of the same name with the "Peruvian artist" on staff? I noticed that company name appears to be currently registered with the USPTO - and wanted you to be aware in case a conflict might arise. Good luck with your mine!
Terrifically technical. Thanks, you are a very able teacher.
I was an administrator for a precious metal refining company, many years ago, working with assay results, including Pt and Pd, fixing the Mines' return on London Market. The money side.
It's great to understand the assay side and the process.
Today turned rockhound, fossiker, lapidary and jewellery maker and the gem side of rocks ;]. Thanks for the great content.
oh, and considering the beautiful clean separation of button/slag, the copper maybe , would appear as the superior collector metal
As an older engineer, I really appreciate seeing your use of good old paper and hand calculations instead of a spreadsheet in your lab! However - even though I've been known to occasionally pull out a slide rule in a meeting for the shock value - I draw the line at using crayons on my scatter charts!
The crayons just shows how good of a father he truly is. But it also made me laugh.
@@MadMarlin1964 My own daughter sometimes still uses crayons as well - but she's an artist in her 30's!
@@mojavegold- sweet Jesus, gotta love an artist. Positive thoughts and prayers to you and yours.
😄
After watching all of your hard work, I've come to the conclusion that *recreational* sluicing/sniping/panning for gold nuggets, pickers, and *visible* flakes, and metal detecting for jewelry and coins at the beach, is the way to go 😁💛
Another way to get a good mix is to put the cons on a small tarp and lift one corner, and roll the material over itself. Repeat multiple times using all of the corners.
This is the safe way to mix components for fireworks.
I don't know how many times I reviewed this video, but I got my head wrapped around the process quite well now, and must say this data is incredibly valuable. Looking forward to testing some material using your 100GCL recipe, now that I believe I panned all the free gold possible from it, and just see if there isn't any additional gold worth recovering.
So cool that this is chemistry. Not simple metal melting.
If you want a hand-mixer (or motorized if you want a big one) that mixes incredibly well in a few seconds have a look at a "Tri-Axial Mixer". They are really cool to watch.
We had a hand cranked one in the lab and after 30 seconds of mixing powders you cannot differentiate the material (fully mixed).
Possibly the larger surface area of the steel bar helped with the reaction during the smelt increasing the yield. Maybe even the smaller smelter and dual burners helped with more heat and less oxygen. Could be the whole bismuth versus lead.
This is the best example of sausage making I’ve seen on RUclips!
It might be useful to look back at your collector metal recovery rate for each smelt; as you noted, the Bismuth tended to crystallize and be more difficult to separate from your slag, so it’s possible that you left residual Bi in the slag that skews your tailings %.
Mixing on a flat board is old school for masons, plaster guys and refiners...old school still works!! Love your videos!!!
Im new to this area of prospecting and focus more on the simplest method to increase recovery. However, you clearly asked a question about what you were doing differently previously, to now. I would point out that when you used no collector metal, you did use steel rebar to reduce sulphur content. Now you use nails. The actual steel content, chemical formula and additives in those two products is vastly different, as is the capacity and ability to absorb and remove sulphur and free more of the locked up metallics.
To me that is a major departure, that could be causing some losses for you
I might be nit-picking here, but could it be that the composition of the "iron" you're using is affecting your results. Nails, rebar and flat stock steel each have different values of alloys in their recipes. Yes, iron is the largest percentage by far, but what happens when you have a bit of chromium, or molybdenum, or other common additions in the steel? Love your videos, please keep up the good work. Stay safe and work smart.
This kind of in depth chemistry and math is awesome. Thanks!
Awesome work, Jason! I love when thorough results are in the video.
I watched the whole video. Now I am, very impressed, with your forward thinking on top of your knowledge!! Just a fan, thanks Jason, I keep watching...
Dude, this was a great video, and I really enjoyed the pace and results as demonstrated. Great health to you and yours.
Thank you Jason for this detailed explanation!!! Loved it!!
Great Video Jason! Thank you for providing a good baseline of how to process precious metal ore. I especially like the way you break down the assay results, showing all of your work, and comparing results. I also appreciate the breakdown of the flux recipes at the beginning of the video and the differing results. Really interesting stuff!! 👍
The Correct Sample Mix Technique is as follows (from BCIT Chem & Env Sciences).
The sample is placed on a cloth or rubber type sheet.
The sheet is folded in half and then returned to flat so the sample will pour over itself.
The sheet is rotated 90° and folded again. This folding happens 100X so the sheet will fully rotate 25X.
Typically a scoop is not used as this allows too much "Operator Technique" to shine through. That's bad.
So that's how the labs do it and if we also do it then everyone is speaking the same language as it were.
I used to engineer stuff for pharma.
Homogeneous mixing of powders without solvents is a pain and very iffy.
There are drug product validation sheets out there proving (repeatedly) that after 6-7 half-full turns 2/3 and not half a turn is required with n rotations/min with a ramp over 12s held at 6rpm.
Wizardry. That‘s what it is.
It is repeatable, no hot spots (you know.. double the mg/tablet and sometimes patients don’t take any tablets anymore thereafter..).
But: Thank you nonetheless for your correct procedure, that‘s what’s in the book.
Excellent video. Great fun show! I enjoyed watching the smelt material burn down in the cupeling stage.
Nom nom nom, I am excited for this series
You definitely love what you do. This is quite apparent. This was quite interesting 🤔 thanks
Maximum respect for the things you have taught us all 💯
Silver dissolves a lot of oxygen and releases it upon crystallization, this could explain the less shiny surface of the high silver content beads in my opinion. Keep up the good work Jason!
Great video
Wow !!!!!!!! Thank you Jason
I am enjoying this lecture, Professor!!! Lol my university was a long time ago.... very impressive sir!!
I was wondering if the nails wear zinc coated and if that would interfere with the process Also wondering if using acids would be cheaper or not
I'm the same way at making furniture as you are with smelting precious metals. I always sought the best way to do a process before I ran the oak. Many times it turned out to be the hardest way, but the best way, so I did it that way.
Jason, I don't know if you noticed but one leg of the cone mold has a broken weld. Great series of experiments. Thank You. In the earlier experiments you used lead and not Bismouth, plus I am wondering if there is a major difference in the metallic composition of using rebar vs nails. I suspect the alloy in the nails is quite different than the rebar, and that may change the outcome of the recovery. It is a possibility that the trace amounts in rebar alloy may be needed to increase the recovery. Possibly a different interaction of the lead and the rebar alloy?
If I'm recovering metals from electronics scrap over a shaker table, the abundance of copper collects the gold and silver in the smelt, BUT: Do the platinum, palladium, and other rare earths add value to the ingot stock? Would separating the precious from the rare be done with electrolytic chemistry? How many different value metals can I mint?
Could it be possible to get more PM's if you cook it longer in the furnace?? Giving it more time to go into the collector metal. That seems to be the only thing you didn't cover. Good video.
Does the surface of the bead match the percentages of materials throughout the bead?
I'm becoming a smelter nurd, great content.
Right on Jason cool man you are a fine teacher thanks alot Brother 😊
Thank you Jason for a very informative video thank you for sharing this with us six stars brother
I’ve used rebar. Just took a long piece, stuck one end into crucible.
Thank you much for the excellent presentation, and absolute set goals stated regarding desired results. You're right in line with the knowledge I hope to obtain. The kung-fu you have, and continue to demonstrate is being streamlined perfectly. Appreciated your persistence more than I can express. ☝😑👍
Got to start using time stamps for thoughs of us that have see part 1
Great explanation of the science, I am a retired science teacher.
I needed this :) just got my cone mold 😅 bought one that was way too small 😆 😊
Have you done a "round robin test" on the variability of the test itself? We used to do round robin tests between labs to check out standard processes and lab processes to insure we'd get the same results between labs. You could do something similar by preparing ten identical samples, treat them all the same, and check the variability of the results. If the technique (or collector metal) is the source of variation, you should be able to isolate it. I noticed that the bismuth collector metal is different from the previous tests to this last one. Just a thought! Like your work and technique!
damn this was so interesting to watch! thanks for the research and entertainment!
very informative, i love learning about mining and all the little jobs that go with it and you do a great job teaching it, thanks Jason, i will be prospecting on my new claim in July, i hope to require your services soon after, take care and God Bless
Thank you
Quick question ,can you "overcook"the beads during the cupelling process?
Lead and/or Copper should have been used on this sample of concentrates, as well as the Bismuth.
Could the bismuth/zinc (galvanized nails) be responsible for creating Chloroauric acid?
Molecular Weight Comparison [106 : 40 Na2CO3 : NaOH]
Did you roast the sulfides first? I'd be curious iron vs roasted. Do one just roasted all the way no iron, another with just iron and last I'd do roast with a little iron. Could discover you don't need the iron or at minimum see if you make the nails more effective.
LOL, Thanks Doctor Baker :)
In an earlier video I heard Jason telling us something and I thought of SREETIPS, then less than a minute later Jason gives him a shout-out if anybody wants to do stuff like this get yourself a vent Hood like SREETIPS virtually all the dangerous fumes get sucked up and pushed outside, but just for extra safety always wear a ventilator.breathing any of that stuff will curdle your cream.
How hard is it to extract the PMs from the copper buttons? The final figures didn't involve any bismuth as collector by the looks. Once you've settled on your recipe, you can add some leftover slag to each smelt to make sure you're squeezing for every last drop of PMs out of it.
A tumbler of some kind should also effectively be able to thoroughly mix ore samples. Loved the idea of the rebar.
another excellent deep dive !!
however each new ore or mine is a variable.
the shaker table concentates the heavies, but ion-sized gold is gonna end up in tailings.
smelting is the process of turning everything into very small molecules or ions and then have gravity seperation. .
you will always have something in the tailings, so the smaller you crush the better the recovery.
the old stamp mills got down to powder if needed and the gold was not visible in the ore.
thats why mercury and cyanide were used for recovering the tiny stuff.
These are great experiments, thank you for sharing the data! It looks like there may be a result around adding 2x more bismuth than lead. Once you're done reducing variables again I'd be very interested to see some tests around fluorspar. Or what you think about it as a smelting ingredient. I think it may be fairly good for iron suspension though it looks like you've already solved that with nails.
You need a whiteboard or two for your shop. I use mine all the time. I have a bigger wall mounted board and a 3' x 2' board I can carry around the shop for notes
Jason: For the relatively small samples of powdered material you usually have, the best way to get a representative sample is using a riffle splitter. (Riffle with two fs, not a firearm).
Going way back to my Chem class days, I remember something about "molecular cohesion factor". The higher CF the harder it is to break down the molecule and the lower the easier it is to break down. What I'm getting at is if you have 3 different sample concentrates and each having different sulfides with precious metals in them you will get 3 different recovery percentages assuming the flux and collector metal are the constants. A sulfide with a higher CF will give you a lower recovery percentage and visa versa. The chemical composition of the flux and kiln temperature will vary from sulfide to sulfide. If you are running a single mine with known type of sulfides in the ore concentrate and tune your flux and temperature to your specific mine cons you will achieve 95+% recovery of the precious metals. One flux and one temperature will not work as a "do all, recover all" recipe for every type of ore concentrate. Hope this helps.. Chris..
😱🤯
You made my brain fizz!.....in future, my sinuses would appreciate a warning.....🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lots to think of 🤔
The atmospheric conditions will alter recovery. Might have to adapt recipes to adjust for conditions
i think it would be good for you to pick one of your friend's mines, and set up what you think is the best rig for him, while you are there. crushers, shaker table, dewatering, etc. you spend a month or so there, processing ore into market grade metals. tossing the slag and pupels back into the crushers, to be cycled back around, adding to efficiencies as you go. write down the upfront costs, and costs per run, with amount of each metal you get. having proof of each stage of use, while making you some good content along the way :P im sure your friend would enjoy the help too :P
Qual o tipo de gás você usa pra fazer esse forno ser tão eficiente assim?What type of gas do you use to make this oven so efficient?
Very informative video. Watched part 1 as well. My first trial I made concentrate 379 ppm gold 5000 ppm silver. additional 16% iron (pyrite) 2% zinc and high lead. Would I still need to add collector metal in a lead rich environment? Any advice for flux recipes?
Thank you Jason, very interesting.
I know pyrochem is quite different to what is done elsewhere.
The nail you showed: I seems indicative to where the reaction is taking place in your crucible. It seems to be going on near the surface - what could be modified to ensure greater surface area?
Or isn’t that what you‘d want to see?
Thank you, great work!
Could the way the collector metal is mixed into the smelt alter the proportion of metal it collects? Does it sink down from where it starts collecting metal on the way? If you tested different placing of the same ratio of ore to lead/bismuth might you get different results?
Maybe try iron powder instead of nails.
You base your flux mixture on mass, but a good portion of that "free iron" your looking for is still locked in the nail.
It's worth a try. I know it's more costly than plain nails, but may yield better results !
Could try machine shop shavings, steel scrap.
It's already finely divided, or shot peening steel shot.
Lots of industrial scrap available cheaper than the nails.
jason, thanks for the videos! i have been waiting for a more informative video for the components of flux this one fills gaps in my understanding of the process. 2 quick questions ...1 your iron addition is in "lump" form can ya run them through the hammer mill and would granular iron.."surface area" be more efficient than lump. 2 your charge is flux and sample have you tried molten flux with granular sample on top ...in my mind the flux is a filter and you want your sample to drop through your filter leaving contaminates in the flux? again thanks for the videos
hey, live your work bro.
if you were to smelt 10 times the volume, like a kilo of the concentrates, would you scale am the other ingredients the same?
This is an amazing breakdown! A str8 plethora of information and walkthrough of processes involved in smelting cons. Very cool🤙 Do you have heat shielding on your propane hoses? Jw, not that guy😅 Thanks!
Biggest difference i can see is that you used rebar instead of nails the mixed carbon levels in the rebar may have helped also you are creating a concentration point for other metals to collect using a single point of iron versus nails with multiple contact points basically creating a sink effect pulling all the pms to one place rather than many.😊
I'm curious to know what the assayers do differently than you Jason. How do they get better results?
Have you ever experimented with performing a second lower temperature smelt to separate the bizmuth alloy from the slag rather than chipping it off?
Not sure if this is worth mentioning but a big difference I seen between past smelts and current is the use of a blower versus just the heat and the use of solid metal rods versus nails could the finish or manufacturing process be a difference.
I wonder if you applied post heat to you cone mold for a few minutes after your pour if that would allow more precious metals to settle out of your slag. Since when you pour it’s basically stirring things up a little bit and may be suspending some precious metals in your slag right as it’s “freezing”.
Just a though from a guy that doesn’t know.
If you crush and pan the slag is the remaining precious metals now visible/free or still locked in the sand matrix?
can monoammonium phosphate be used in a smelting process? I end up with scrap fire extinguishers all the time
Jason when did you film this I can swear I saw this exact video about a year and a half or two years ago.
you may need a silver collector or gold collector. we use amonia thio sulphate to remove all gold as we grind the sample to 200 fine, now we have total separation drop out using zinc, liquid sucks in the zinc and exrtrudes the precious metals. metal colection use silver collector on silvers and gold collector on hevily we rretain NO PRECIOUS metals in the g-flux. we use ICP
Can we use normal furnace (diy from you) to smelt it?will we get the similar result, compare to electric furnace?if any, what is the difference between those 2 furnace.thanks in advance to you sir.
Very interesting, i Now know more of the why, and have a much better clue on the how! Good vid Jason!
Oh, a spot the difference game! It's not raining, the temperature is different, you used more iron, let it run for 15 mins after iron instead of 10 and you had your flames high reducing oxygen in your smelt.
Hi Jason, out of curiosity, how many smelts can you acheive from those lpg tanks you use and what weight are they? The reason I am asking, is that here in the UK, LPG (Propane/ Butane ) prices are really high at the moment becase of the greedy gas companies hike on prices and blaming Russia, so I want to know if it is cost effective to smelt small volumes of ore? I know of a location that may have gold in it's sediment so I would really appreciate some numbers, as you seem very adept at working out Math on this subject.
Well that was really confusing😂 all the things you have to do to do that wow😂 it was like you were talking Japanese😂 but I stuck through it and watched it😂 still sounded like you were talking Japanese and watching a science professor didn't understand too much of it but I hung in there for you I appreciate you doing all the hard work and figuring everything out 😂I will see you on the next one😂😂😂😂
Awesome show.
Id like to work with you one day. I work in mining but new to melting metals. Practicing with copper right now.
Cheers
who sells the cone mold?
Gud vid 😍
Need to do one more smelt with lead instead of bismuth using the same sample material. That will lay the lead vs bismuth question to rest.
I end up turning Ag>Au yeah 1kg Ag turned to 400g Au a 100% Au under XRF don't ask how to do it. Nice foundry you have brother
would running multiple test with the same recipe show your sample variation?