Yerin's Overlord revelation didn't block her from the sword Icon. She was still sensing it during her battle with Safaranatoth. She lost her sense of the Icon after fusing with Ruby because she was now a half spirit. Still, she wasn't blocked from the Sword Icon, she just needed to strengthen her will power and connection to the sword again.
I think you misunderstand me. Fusing with Ruby made Yerins body and spirit a mix of sword and blood, removing her connection to Tim’s sword authority. What I was getting at, is even if she never merged with Ruby she would never be able to manifest the sword icon using Tim’s sword authority.
@@bamfious, I guess I wasn't on the same page as you. I never took it as Yerin accessing the sword Icon via Tim's authority. I took it as Tim's experiences giving her a head start touching the sword icon via his remnant. Just because she admitted that she wasn't her master didn't cut her off from his experiences, as made evident in the battle following Yerin's advancement to Overlord.
@@LordTaylian I also read it this way. As I've read the books, Yerin has fully processed and absorbed the Sword Sage's remnant. The only opposing will that she's had to contend with for a long time has been her Blood Shadow's. Tim's experiences give Yerin a head start and deserve credit, but we should also give credit to Yerin for exemplifying swordsmanship herself. It's is Yerin's will and Yerin's exemplification of swordsmanship that is allowing Yerin (not Tim's Remnant will) to touch the Sword Icon. I don't believe that she is using something analogous to an authority binding in the Sword Sage's remnant, in other words. In considering Yerin's failure, we also need to not forget how close she came to succeeding and the extensive extenuating circumstances surrounding her failure. It's not as though Yerin had been an Archlord for years but was still struggling to touch the Sword Icon. She wasn't an Archlord. She was an Overlord, and a three day Overlord at that. She didn't have time to develop as an Overlord or explore her revelation. "Yerin shoved it all to the back of her mind. She'd have plenty of time to search her soul once the fight was over." And it's not as though she's allowed to try 100 times against Sophara. She has 3 strikes and then Sophara wins Penance. Even the Winter Sage (who has been pushing the Icon strategy) says "I know that this is not a fair request of someone below Archlord". Unless there is direct textual evidence that Yerin's OL revelation hindered her manifestation of the Icon, all I can see that we have to go on is that she failed. But we already (independently of a hypothesized block from Yerin's OL revelation) have an overwhelmingly complete answer for her failure. If her OL revelation played any role, I'd contend (and I concede this is pure speculation) that her revelation made it *easier* for her to come as close to the Sword Icon as she did in her second match. She could let all the anxiety of trying to *be Tim* go. She could just be her and follow the rhythm of the Sword Icon herself. "She let go of her fear, her anxiety, her attachment to victory. Yerin left it all behind and pursued the heart of a Sage."
@@bamfious "Yerins overlord revelation made it impossible for her to manifest the sword icon as she was". Definitely seems youre saying the overlord revelation blocks the sword icon. She still manifests the icon twice after advancing to OL... just fails to hold it. Her fusion with Ruby is what blocks her access to the sword icon. If she never fused with Ruby she would have continued yo touch the sword icon even if she never fully manifested it. The only reason she lost touch with the icon at present is because her fusion with Ruby makes it so much harder for icons to be sensed due to being half spirit.
Incredibly helpful video. Thank you for taking the time to break this down for noobs like me that binge the series and feel lost when it comes to the whole advancement structure. You said you could talk for hours on the subject. I could listen for hours!
@@bamfious the trick to good videos is to turn off the house lights, have 1 good back light and 1 good front light, a computer screen usually does good as a good front light!
I don’t use overhead lights ever anyway, but good to know. Usually I record during the daylight but this was recorded with less natural light coming through the windows
I was also under the impression that its stated somewhere that Heralds are a step beyond Sage. I am now through a re-read, and no, its not explicitly stated. They might as well be more combat capable and physically stronger than Sages, and authority seems to effect them very little. Sages do have some unique Way related powers that Heralds dont have access to, although they are able to sense and interact with it rudimentarily.
Will was very, very careful not to say anything explicit about Sage/Herald, their order, etc. Even when I would ask him in person he would be vague. This just tells me at the time he wasn't set on a course of action. I am impressed that what we thought was a contradiction ended up just being our own assumptions.
@@AnthonyButler3 Yeah I don’t know I read the books, I do know though that in the audio version the reader pronounced Akura wrong, Will Pronounces it Ahk-rah
Always happy to see a new cradle video. On the lord sage though, I don't think these are "eternal truths" since when Mercy advanced to underlord Malice said "Ascending to the Lord realm means accepting who you are, not who you will be." So far we have seen that you have to acknowledge why you practice and who you are. I'm not sure what type of truth the archlord will require.
Small correction: There are no references I found to Herald’s making Gatestones in the past. Mera received the Gatestone from taking it from Daji or at least from where Daji used it based on Lindon’s sworn statements. Daji was given the Gatestone from the the Sage of Red Faith, who would presumably have made it. All other gatestones seem to have come from Monarchs or Sages. Fury wasn’t even able to transport until Monarch. There is also a Blood Herald, but because the Blood Sage’s willpower and the will of his Blood Shadow were not focused during the advance to Monarch toward the same goal, the Blood Shadow broke free, resulting in a fractured Monarch and the fracturing of Red Faith’s soul along with his madness. The human half became the Sage of Red Faith, and his Blood Shadow became the Redmoon Herald (whose condensed blood made the Hearts Gem that advanced Yerin’s Blood Shadow enough to fuse with Yerin). The two together would be a true Monarch, but they clearly don’t get along. That’s why Red Faith was so fixed on Yerin during the uncrowned king tournament, and was in agreement with her ultimate prize. He thought she could finish his work and create the first Redmoon Monarch, and a new path. He was willing to destroy all of Redmoon Hall if she would only join him.
As an aside, I suspect that the Redmoon Herald is probably a “nice guy” who got most of Red Faith’s good qualities when he took a chunk of his soul, and will be a key character and ally before Yerin hits monarch.
Random thought: In one of the books (Underlord I think?) the being known as Pariana is referred to by Suriel as “Titan”. So my theory is, once you ascend, there’s a whole other set of power levels with Judge being the ultimate. Also it could merely be that Pariana is a follower of Gadrael and all followers have that title 🤷🏻♂️
Yes Pariana is a part of the Titan Division, she is a One Star Titan and I believe there are 7 tiers. So a Judge would be a 7 Star of their division. I think this is what is true.
Fantastic video as always, As for Jade though i do not believe you need a 'perfect iron body' i think even Will commented on this. a 'Perfect Iron Body" really is more toward achiving higher ranks smoother sense you're body and path work well together. (Maybe i am mistaken?) Is cradles ascension process harder? OR just more strict? i honestly don't know and would love to! Can't wait for more videos.
You my friend will enjoy reading this excerpt that was removed from Blackflame - www.willwight.com/a-blog-of-dubious-intent/behind-the-scenes-blackflame-part-1
Sage Senses unbound by their spirit. The combo of Herald and Sage. Lindon and Yerin mention how much clearer everything is with each of their transformations.
Yes heralds have remnants after they fuse. Their spirits don't disappear, they just become more one with the body. If the body stops working and dies, the energy of the spirit can persist. It just won't have the same level of existence as it did before its body died.
![[Cradle] The Art Of Soulsmithing](/img/1.gif)
Yerin's Overlord revelation didn't block her from the sword Icon. She was still sensing it during her battle with Safaranatoth. She lost her sense of the Icon after fusing with Ruby because she was now a half spirit. Still, she wasn't blocked from the Sword Icon, she just needed to strengthen her will power and connection to the sword again.
I think you misunderstand me. Fusing with Ruby made Yerins body and spirit a mix of sword and blood, removing her connection to Tim’s sword authority.
What I was getting at, is even if she never merged with Ruby she would never be able to manifest the sword icon using Tim’s sword authority.
@@bamfious, I guess I wasn't on the same page as you. I never took it as Yerin accessing the sword Icon via Tim's authority. I took it as Tim's experiences giving her a head start touching the sword icon via his remnant. Just because she admitted that she wasn't her master didn't cut her off from his experiences, as made evident in the battle following Yerin's advancement to Overlord.
@@LordTaylian I also read it this way. As I've read the books, Yerin has fully processed and absorbed the Sword Sage's remnant. The only opposing will that she's had to contend with for a long time has been her Blood Shadow's. Tim's experiences give Yerin a head start and deserve credit, but we should also give credit to Yerin for exemplifying swordsmanship herself. It's is Yerin's will and Yerin's exemplification of swordsmanship that is allowing Yerin (not Tim's Remnant will) to touch the Sword Icon.
I don't believe that she is using something analogous to an authority binding in the Sword Sage's remnant, in other words.
In considering Yerin's failure, we also need to not forget how close she came to succeeding and the extensive extenuating circumstances surrounding her failure. It's not as though Yerin had been an Archlord for years but was still struggling to touch the Sword Icon. She wasn't an Archlord. She was an Overlord, and a three day Overlord at that. She didn't have time to develop as an Overlord or explore her revelation. "Yerin shoved it all to the back of her mind. She'd have plenty of time to search her soul once the fight was over." And it's not as though she's allowed to try 100 times against Sophara. She has 3 strikes and then Sophara wins Penance. Even the Winter Sage (who has been pushing the Icon strategy) says "I know that this is not a fair request of someone below Archlord".
Unless there is direct textual evidence that Yerin's OL revelation hindered her manifestation of the Icon, all I can see that we have to go on is that she failed. But we already (independently of a hypothesized block from Yerin's OL revelation) have an overwhelmingly complete answer for her failure.
If her OL revelation played any role, I'd contend (and I concede this is pure speculation) that her revelation made it *easier* for her to come as close to the Sword Icon as she did in her second match. She could let all the anxiety of trying to *be Tim* go. She could just be her and follow the rhythm of the Sword Icon herself. "She let go of her fear, her anxiety, her attachment to victory. Yerin left it all behind and pursued the heart of a Sage."
@@bamfious "Yerins overlord revelation made it impossible for her to manifest the sword icon as she was". Definitely seems youre saying the overlord revelation blocks the sword icon. She still manifests the icon twice after advancing to OL... just fails to hold it. Her fusion with Ruby is what blocks her access to the sword icon.
If she never fused with Ruby she would have continued yo touch the sword icon even if she never fully manifested it.
The only reason she lost touch with the icon at present is because her fusion with Ruby makes it so much harder for icons to be sensed due to being half spirit.
Incredibly helpful video. Thank you for taking the time to break this down for noobs like me that binge the series and feel lost when it comes to the whole advancement structure. You said you could talk for hours on the subject. I could listen for hours!
Nice improvement in your video quality and lighting! Thanks for the vid as always, enjoy them!
You’re kidding.... I forgot to turn some of my lighting on! 😂😂. Ugh damn. I’ll try to replicate the lighting this time around.
@@bamfious the trick to good videos is to turn off the house lights, have 1 good back light and 1 good front light, a computer screen usually does good as a good front light!
I don’t use overhead lights ever anyway, but good to know. Usually I record during the daylight but this was recorded with less natural light coming through the windows
I was also under the impression that its stated somewhere that Heralds are a step beyond Sage. I am now through a re-read, and no, its not explicitly stated. They might as well be more combat capable and physically stronger than Sages, and authority seems to effect them very little. Sages do have some unique Way related powers that Heralds dont have access to, although they are able to sense and interact with it rudimentarily.
Will was very, very careful not to say anything explicit about Sage/Herald, their order, etc. Even when I would ask him in person he would be vague. This just tells me at the time he wasn't set on a course of action. I am impressed that what we thought was a contradiction ended up just being our own assumptions.
On the debate as to Sage or Herald first. I think that Sage first is high risk and quick and Herald first is low risk and slow.
I believe it is pronounced arch as in archbishop, not like arch(ark) like in architecture. Keep up the good work👍
Arklord for life
Agreed. In the audio book it is “arch”
@@AnthonyButler3 Yeah I don’t know I read the books, I do know though that in the audio version the reader pronounced Akura wrong, Will Pronounces it Ahk-rah
Always happy to see a new cradle video.
On the lord sage though, I don't think these are "eternal truths" since when Mercy advanced to underlord Malice said "Ascending to the Lord realm means accepting who you are, not who you will be."
So far we have seen that you have to acknowledge why you practice and who you are. I'm not sure what type of truth the archlord will require.
Yeah, that was me being facetious about the grandiosity of the Lord stages.
Small correction: There are no references I found to Herald’s making Gatestones in the past. Mera received the Gatestone from taking it from Daji or at least from where Daji used it based on Lindon’s sworn statements. Daji was given the Gatestone from the the Sage of Red Faith, who would presumably have made it. All other gatestones seem to have come from Monarchs or Sages. Fury wasn’t even able to transport until Monarch.
There is also a Blood Herald, but because the Blood Sage’s willpower and the will of his Blood Shadow were not focused during the advance to Monarch toward the same goal, the Blood Shadow broke free, resulting in a fractured Monarch and the fracturing of Red Faith’s soul along with his madness.
The human half became the Sage of Red Faith, and his Blood Shadow became the Redmoon Herald (whose condensed blood made the Hearts Gem that advanced Yerin’s Blood Shadow enough to fuse with Yerin). The two together would be a true Monarch, but they clearly don’t get along. That’s why Red Faith was so fixed on Yerin during the uncrowned king tournament, and was in agreement with her ultimate prize. He thought she could finish his work and create the first Redmoon Monarch, and a new path. He was willing to destroy all of Redmoon Hall if she would only join him.
As an aside, I suspect that the Redmoon Herald is probably a “nice guy” who got most of Red Faith’s good qualities when he took a chunk of his soul, and will be a key character and ally before Yerin hits monarch.
Damnit. I meant “Mercy” got the gatestone from Daji. 🙄
Random thought: In one of the books (Underlord I think?) the being known as Pariana is referred to by Suriel as “Titan”. So my theory is, once you ascend, there’s a whole other set of power levels with Judge being the ultimate. Also it could merely be that Pariana is a follower of Gadrael and all followers have that title 🤷🏻♂️
Yes Pariana is a part of the Titan Division, she is a One Star Titan and I believe there are 7 tiers. So a Judge would be a 7 Star of their division. I think this is what is true.
This was really cool. Thank you for this!
You’re welcome!
Where was it stated that Northstrider defeated one of the Abidaan at Terminus? Awesome video btw, keep em coming!
Check out the Hidden Gnome Podcast and look for Deathmatch #3
Also, True Gold is the end point for the vast majority of people in Cradle. They will never move beyond this stage.
Most people don't even make it to true gold
To be more accurate, to advance to copper, you layer madra around your core and use that to squeeze and condense your core.
That is what Lindon did without a real teacher. Is that the way it must be done? Who knows.
Only Will I suppose
Someone should ask him. **looks around**
@@bamfious Hey, you're the one with the youtube channel.
no you cant see or influence madra so that isn't right..
The proliferation of Gatestones in unlikely locations and times might be down to Reigan Shen...?
True
Fantastic video as always, As for Jade though i do not believe you need a 'perfect iron body' i think even Will commented on this. a 'Perfect Iron Body" really is more toward achiving higher ranks smoother sense you're body and path work well together. (Maybe i am mistaken?)
Is cradles ascension process harder? OR just more strict? i honestly don't know and would love to!
Can't wait for more videos.
You my friend will enjoy reading this excerpt that was removed from Blackflame - www.willwight.com/a-blog-of-dubious-intent/behind-the-scenes-blackflame-part-1
I think Monarchs also get new senses, or at the very least the ones they have evolve to a whole new level.
Sage Senses unbound by their spirit. The combo of Herald and Sage. Lindon and Yerin mention how much clearer everything is with each of their transformations.
Nice video Bamf
Thanks Yeetstorm!
Nice summary!! Thanks. I'm gonna hope you keep losing bets so we got more bonus videos from you :P
Rude. :P
Do you have any idea if the whole cradle will continue out of the cradle world for exp Lindon going to abidan or anywhere else ?
I expect there will be a series that covers post-ascension, but it won't be called Cradle. Cradle ends when they leave Cradle.
@@bamfious Oh Dude I'm tottally expecting that and also I would love to see another powercreep in the Abidan.
sooooo... do heralds have remnants after they fuse? i know they do, because of Emriss Silentborn. but how? is that different since shes a tree?
will lindon fuse with lil blue?
No he did not. He formed a spiritual contract.
Yes heralds have remnants after they fuse. Their spirits don't disappear, they just become more one with the body. If the body stops working and dies, the energy of the spirit can persist. It just won't have the same level of existence as it did before its body died.
*ARCH* LORD not arklord
Nope
you need to get an intro and outro or something
Want to make one?
@@bamfious no cap, ill pay for one if you will use it.
@@dantem6462 maybe send me some ideas for what a good intro or outro for my videos would even look like?
OwO
I like your videos, but not your face
Same