Do you think Blade is future proof? Even though Bronya is like the best support for him, I still feel like he is missing that butter in his bread; like a HP buffer(no lynx buffs to him are not good). So that's my question, will there a hp buffing harmony unit? No actually scrap that. Will a dedicated Blade support unit can even push him to the upper echelons of damage dealers considering his scalings? If you want to bring Blade back to the meta what kind of a support would you design for him?
@@sunnypa7101Hmm, possibly? He does have a niche as a sort of very simple to build character but I think that unfortunately is also his downfall, his simplicity is what makes him vulnerable. If I were to design a support, I would do something like Furina from Genshin where they provide a damage boost based on the amount of HP lost.
I think mainly acheron is not a problem as her superior power scaling can attribute to some story related reasons such as her being and "emanator" it makes sense in my head as in genshin basically all archons are overpowered and future proof. what are your thoughts on this?
@kaxdra A hsr furina is a really great idea! For instance, in a blade×JL team, they take away a lot of the team's hp, including hsr furina, which could give them loads of dmg% for infinite turns since this team takes away the team's hp every turn, but the flaw I find in this team is they are really vulnerable to defeat. Only a competitive healer(even better than luocha) can solo sustain this team since there are 3 party members trying to off themselves😆. Anyways, it's nice chatting with you. Good luck with your future content.
i think the most important point, rather than unfair or unbalance new character is "can you enjoy the game with your fav characters?". Lets say you love Jingyuan Aventurine or Ratio, now heres FUA team. Or lets say you love to play with niche archetypes, here kafka dots and acheron nihility team. Hoyo pumping tons of character is bringing said team and archetypes to be complete and can play the game enjoyably.
@@user-qr3lr7sh1gnot exactly.. Based on the leaks so far about Jade, both serves a different role.. Topaz ia single target fire fua unit that buff fua and allows her to have faster fua.. While Jade is a multitarget aoe fua unit that from the looks of thing is better suited for stuff like Pure Fiction..
Thank you! A lot of HSR players seem to hold the opinion that power creep can only be considered a problem once Seele, who was released all the way back in 1.0, stops being viable. The problem with this argument is that limited 5-star privilege goes a long way. She was the best DPS in the game, of course you're gonna think everything's fine if she's your only canary in the coal mine! But now we're far enough into Star Rail's lifespan that we've seen limited 5-stars for every path, and it's very clear just how much MHY wants to enforce the gap between 4-stars and 5-stars. God forbid you actually liked Natasha, or Arlan, or Sampo, because then you'll have to choose between using an objectively better character instead or knowingly investing more resources to get less results. If you look at Prydwen's MoC data, it's clear that ~70-80% of 4-stars simply do not exist in endgame content, and I don't see why this should be the case. Part of the power creep formula is harder content, too. Skaracabaz is a pretty egregious example, that boss is absurdly tanky and hits like a truck. It DEMANDS a properly-invested team, even during story mode (if anything, moreso since you can't use support characters), which you probably don't have if you're just trying to clear story content and unlock the boss that lets you invest in, say, Dr. Ratio's traces. It's harder than the trials you need to complete to increase your equilibrium level, which in turn would make it even harder. And this was all the way back in 1.6! Sure, nothing since has been so egregiously difficult outside of endgame, but if something like this happened again I'm convinced a lot of the playerbase would just write it off as new players having a skill issue and be glad their Fu Xuan hasn't totally trivialized the game for them. I dunno, it's just sad to see HYV relapse into doing the usual gacha bullshit I hate after Genshin seemed like a step in the right direction.
Great video. I agree 100% that while people say power creep doesn't exist because "all characters can clear all content", they omit the fact that doing so with older characters takes a significant amount of effort compared to the almost relatively plug-and-play nature of newer units. People will also say the game is "easy" because older units and 4-stars can clear all content, but once again, they omit how much effort and time it takes to do so when the newer units take the content to pound town. I'm not sure why the community leverages this talking point so much, but if the effort-to-reward ratio is skewed such that rolling the new character that fills a role you already have covered is the most optimal play for your account at any given moment, it can feel really bad to use or even like an older character even if they can clear the same content as the new unit. I feel this with Acheron, especially since I skipped her. On top of that, if the best option to clear new content is to roll the new unit, it's pretty demotivating especially if you're a f2p player.
dont really see why people say older units need more effort tbh, they need about the same as any new unit, only exceptions are jingliu (who needs less than most) and jing yuan (who needs more than most). definitely wouldnt say they take a "significant" amount
@@Internextion Idk, I think its weird to make the assertion that all units need as much effort as eachother when it's clear that a unit like acheron's power level was tuned the way it was at just a base level. If you are asserting that clearing the hardest content with a character like Yanqing/hook takes about the same effort as with Acheron, that sounds questionable at best.
@@OhManDude but im not asserting that it takes the same amount of effort for yanqing and hook, im asserting that it takes the same for dan heng, seele, ratio, blade, etc. doesnt matter if yanqing or hook are worse, they're not limited 5 stars, thus not relevant to the conversation.
@@Internextion my bad, I didn't comprehend what you said completely. However, I think the existence of JingLiu herself was already bad enough, which was an example you provided. A character like her that has such a low investment floor to perform competitively, made it kind of suck for anyone who didn't own her and was struggling. With Acheron now here, and seeing how she performs at low and high investment, I still think it's weird to say she needs the same investment as Seele or Blade to perform. At lowest base line investment level and the right teams, I think she blows Seele, for example, out of the water in terms of ease-of-use AND performance.
@@OhManDude tbf i agree with you but i think moc rotations are very favorable for specific units and 5* supports are so strong that that investment gap still isnt that important. i know a dude 3 starring with a mid investment jing yuan, and another dude clearing with fucking serval lmao. as good as jingliu is, i still dont think shes good enough to warrant someone needing to worry about getting her or not or feeling bad for not having her. she cant brute force non-ice weak at low investment, so i dont think we have to fear powercreep just yet. and while i agree acheron is incredibly powerful, even for low investment builds, she still feels pretty lc reliant, and as someone who doesnt have black swan or silverwolf, it feels like even she struggles vs someone like aventurine boss. which goes to show that i dont think the investment difference between dps is nearly as important as just having more units
Hoyo has plenty of runway left. Just create new problems and sell the solutions. For instance, Acheron. How do you shut down this powerful character? Simple, make new enemies immune to debuffs. How do you fix it? You can buff old characters, say, Luocha, by making it so that you have to strip a particular enemy buff to make them vulnerable to debuffs again. Oh btw we're releasing a new character with a kit that fixes this exact problem, but with a skill instead of an ultimate! Aventurine approves. Expect every new story / map / endgame mode to have new enemies that counter specific metas / archetypes, incentivizing players to keep pulling the solutions. Hoyo just needs to tweak the numbers so that it doesn't scare the casual playerbase too badly.
@@Wyqkrn I mean if break teams have to deal with enemies that protect their toughness bar from depleting i dont see why not. I still dont like this "create a problem sell the solution" type of mentality though, its kind of scummy
@@Donkam_haurdertrue but he was providing a example of how older characters can have more use . Depending on how hoyo makes bosses and combat. Like for shielders if hoyo ever decides to nerf them they could make a enemy that either ignores shields or bleeds into them.
@@thefearturkey6944 yeah, especially when there is only 2 characters who have dispell ability, maybe in the future we can get more of those if hoyo decide to make more of self buff enemy
Powercreep is inevitable for most games but a good game keeps it in check. In hsr powercreep is rampant, every new character since 2.0 is powercreeping old character, on the other hand genshin also got things like neuvillete & hyperbloom but it took 2-3 years later while hsr is only in it's first year and the powercreep is this bad already. People claiming that powercreep is good have the luxury to pull every new character that comes out. It feels so sh*tty when old players struggle to clear moc with jing yuan while a new player can just blast enemies with their Acheron.
Every single patch since Imbibitor Lunae has power crept the previous one. Every new character has power crept all the previous ones. Every single MOC has had enemies with more health an damage than the previous ones. At this rate the game forces you to pay up or else. Normal people, even low spenders, will not be able to keep up with this. it's getting ridiculous. I went from being able to clear MOC to not being able to clear it anymore despite getting most of the new broken characters. It's not just getting the characters. It's the investment part as well. This game requires you to build and invest in so many different characters that it is impossible to keep up with it unless you refresh your stamina with jades.
Game is very simplistic. They really can't make many new things(and they all boils down to "press e" and win). So new characters will be always better than old ones - because otherwise revenue will suffer, and players won't be happy too, because there is simply nothing left for Hoyo to do, it's a big flaw of gameplay itself. Also, many gachas buff characters(FGO, Arknights, it's just a Genshin problem), but buffs may be not impactful sometimes.
I agree, the worrisome part about such a fast paced power progression is that enemies are made to scale off the strength of new characters. Been feeling this problem ever since Jingliu patch. I think they will slow down a tiny bit after Acheron though, or at least Robin and Boothill don't seem as comparatively busted.
I totally agree! As an F2P, I found it unfair when Acheron came out, making the enemies disappear instantly. However, in the current patch, we also have a super break mechanic that is very friendly to F2P players. I hope HSR's future content can keep old characters viable, or indirectly buff them by releasing support that fits with the old character kits. I love playing hard content, but not so hard that it forces me to roll for an overpowered character just to clear it. I came late, but this video earned you a sub. It's a great video tbh.
People are acknolwedging that they are playing a Gacha Game and yet also deny that they are playing at Gacha game when they believe that Power Creep is not a thing. Like Gacha like Gambling only few wins most are losers so it is better not to compare what others got and just enjoy what you get.
Out of all the Gacha's I've played, I think Blue Archive handles a huge roster the best. There are very few overly apparent or straight-up power-creep moments in that game despite a roster the size of a small city primarily because of the amount of niches that characters can provide. Aside from just their kits, there's also terrain and damage and armor types and weapon types that come into play. Aside from that, the sheer amount of content that is in BA allows niche units to shine when those events come back around. I think if HSR can lean into niches, utilize more variables instead of just "how fast can you clear," and really give their units room to breathe, the narrative of "power creep" will die down. The only reason it's so apparent now, is because endgame (MoC) is mostly just about how fast you can clear-- meanwhile Golden Gears has some of that endgame variety, but it's so tied up to RNG and so extreme that it's often overshadowed and disregarded as "endgame content." Something like rotating end-game raids that require different ways to clear, or a different MoC-like content without turn-requirements, and instead go for fights of attrition, or a different mode where certain characters gain special buffs based on who they are or what they specialize in, instead of what their kit is. TLDR: We need variety in endgame content that leans into niches, instead of just cycle-counts.
I think that the argument that every new 5* limited character being best just falls apart when you consider 3 very important points: the best before that was a character with consistency problems, so it isn't hard for a new character to become a standard, the order in which characters were released was intentional, so the better ones will get released later, while the ones that will get the most indirect buffs will be released first (they know what they are doing, this isn't their first game), and every 5* character is supposed to be best in their niche, as their goal is to still earn money from reruns of the character in the future. Also have a hard time taking someone who is saying that SW become new standard for a debuffer seriosly, when I remember quite a lot of discussions that boiled down to: SW only being good because we don't have many characters build, and Pela being better than SW, because Pela is AoE. On the related note it is surprising how much of powercreep is just the "powercrept" character just being below average on release, which makes the powercreep only a matter of time until they release another similar character that is average. And while talking about average is hard for small sample size, it is pretty easy to compare how characters with similar roles perform, and try to find average value and what should be expected, and a lot of powercreept characters are just this. I also feel like designers didn't understand how much Sustain characters need to do until 1.5, but saying I also think that a good portion of Sustain's value is in their SP generation with the "weaker ones" generating more. Also I find it funny how you said that BS is just better than Sampo, while in my mind they never shared the same role, with BS being AoE DD and Sampo being an ST Breaker. On related note, people just ignore Break damage, and it shows nearly every time someone tries to compare performance of characters.
I can’t say I understand the people who think Sampo and BS are different. It’s splitting hairs to justify “but they’re different so it’s not power creep”. It’s power creep. Sampo and BS have the same role as a second carry in Kafka teams.
@@kaxdra Honestly, the idea that every niche is eventually going to get filled and then eventually going to get powercrept because character kits have limited variety (objectively) is completely valid. So something like break damage and sampo could get indirectly buffed with a five star, similarly to DoT, and then the next time break effect is relevant a new char it would overshadow said five star. --- --- --- If you define powercreep as simply achieving the same end purpose as another character however, it's a misleading definition (?). I would never say a limited 5 star aoe charcter "power crept serval", I also wouldn't say she's bad on release. Position and team comps matter, infact if there was about 2 of every niche and character with relatively the same strength BEFORE some extreme overlap, we'd probably long be satisfied. And both of those are excluding nuance in niches, two energy gens could have different rates but with various buffs, Overlap that isn't 1:1 is mostly enough to avoid powercreep so long as the "extra" isn't completely unvalued, of which can be solved by simply releasing more units. Idk what sparkle's kit is but maybe a character who buffs CDM, like sparkle, but does so less in trade for some sort of cc. Or a help to Gepard by increasing eff/HR of preservation characters, or something else gepard has that adventurine doesn't (idfk) For huohuo, something that majorly buffs invigoration would work, and that could close their gap no? If every character brings even a little bit of unique to the table, with enough characters powercreep because irrelevant I'd say (?)
but yeah, playing on his account vs on my account i could see the huge difference between a 5* and a 4* sustainer, i had to reset way less on my account than on his.
Star rail andies are the worst i have dealt with when it comes to talking about powercreep, they immediately start playing defence for hoyo the moment people try and bring up discussion on powercreep. Its very weird and frustrating.
It is pretty concerning (And as much as I enjoy the general, I will begrudgingly admit acheron is more or less taking his throne for lightning DPS) I'd say until we get to a point where old limited can't clear MoC under any circumstances we're fine. Since, like genshin, while they cater to more end game content wanting players in HSR, keeping the game at a point where every limited is usually viable seems to be their goal. I'll point this out with the example of pure fiction. The game mode alone turned Herta and the fan favorite Himeko from only good at killing trash to godly strong for that game mode. We're likely to get new modes or events that bring older characters forward while supporting new characters. If genshin has shown anything, Hoyo is more than willing to sell a solution if a character gets enough attention. For example, Jing Yuan has steadily gotten stronger patch after patch, with sparkle likely being his peak unless we can force LL to take his turn at max stacks. Xiao, an early version 1 character for genshin, got a 4 star support specifically for anemo and as recently a premium 5 star to buff his niche. All and all, while power creep is real, we're likely to be sold the solution to further invest into older characters if we skip shiny new DPS that overlap.
Xiao didn't got a new 4-star support just for him. He got powercrept by Wandered, and so it happens, Xiao can use Wanderer's supports. He still got powercrept in same patch.
There's a lot worse examples of gacha's with powercreep problems. I got into PGR while waiting for WW's release, and on a new account you get to pick up 2 limited banners characters for free (S rank = 5*). Thing is, there is only one, MAAAAYBE two that are viable choices, and with CN server being ahead by a year the meta is all figured out and content creators straight up say that X will powercreep current character Y in some amount of time. In current patch, it's an A rank (4*) that equals/outperforms a starter 5* in it's category but in 2-3 patches the newest character will blow them both out of the water. Also, high difficulty content is adjusted around the latest characters, which is obvious, but what some people tend to miss is that it sometimes is adjusted *against* the same characters later. After FX's release, you notice how high diff MoC had the witches that blocked you from healing HP back up with that grey bar? Your main example, or at least the one you explained the most of was Acheron vs Jing Yuan. Yes, they're both backloaded lightning DPS, but honestly even that is fine in a sense, because either one wants different teammates, and more importantly, actually very importantly: Both Genshin and HSR are built around team building, without owning Jing Yuan I know he's gotten better than on release because he can use Harmony units in his teams, compared to Acheron. In theory it takes one unit that Jing Yuan can put into his team that Acheron can't to reverse the situation, but the reverse is also true. Overall, I get where you're coming from, and agree with being sort of "vigilant" about power creep. For now I'll just politely disagree.
5:18 Sometimes it does matter if it is a follow-up attack or a ultimate attack depending on the moc/pf buffs On my opinion as stated in the video the current endgame is pretty easy. We shouldn't be worried about super strong units if old units can still perform well in their own good setups. Let's be real, there's a lot of 0 cycles with old units out there. Most of it only comes down to teambuilding and of course the moc/pf buffs can help sometimes. And let's not forget that Herta is S+ in PF The "investment" talk doesn't really make sense. What character doesn't need a good crit ratio? What supports don't need to be build up? Hanabi performs better with a lot of speed, Black Swan performs considerably better at 160+ speed and 3000+ ATK, Acheron will be very weak if we don't get her a good crit ratio For SU every character works really fine because most of it comes down to blessings and curios. Anyone can be extremely powerful For MOC/PF, I really believe the game will be very boring if we always worry about meta and newer units. This makes older characters look weak which is not the case at all. I've been using Seele since day one (S0E0) and she has been very helpful, even against enemies with no quantum weakness. This game allows us to choose whoever we want (as long as the team makes sense against certain enemies of course) given that they're not making hard endgame modes. Although I really wish they would.
I dont really understand the next new big thing, powercreep the old one. Since at the end of the day, it is less of a character focus while it is more of a team focus. For example, the reason why Jingliu and DHIL were at the top is because there was no other competition for other types of teams. Sure, there was the fua team and the dot team, but it wasn't fleshed out as today. As of 2.x, we have Dr. Ratio, Acheron, and the break team at top. That is because we finally have options to use instead of a Hypercarry team.
well made video and i enjoy your style of ranting, however i think saying "the details dont matter" and oversimplifying IS bad, especially when they're necessary to see how powercreep hasnt become a glaring issue yet. examples like ratio being better in single-target than seele, while forgetting her entire resurgence mechanic or easier teambuilding, or saying aventurine is a better shielder than gepard while ignoring the actual comparison with fu xuan as limited preservations. i can definitely see powercreep becoming a noticeable issue later on, but they HAVE done a good job giving each character a niche so far, and the dps requirement of MOC stages hasnt reached the point where older units are struggling compared to newer units. to this day seele is still the best 0 cycle dps, and almost every limited dps can 3 cycle an on-element MOC stage. the upcoming units, robin and boothill, arent better than ruan mei or seele/jingliu/acheron. i think the community just tends to misunderstand things and blow things out of proportion, while also not considering actual scenarios. people love to talk about how strong jingliu or acheron is, but they dont consider why they're strong, their weaknesses, or their relative powerlevel compared to other dps (jingliu is not that far ahead of dan heng or seele, shes just easier to build). tl;dr there hasn't been noticeable powercreep yet and mihoyo is doing a good job balancing units with specific niches
Excellent points. IMO, dps checks become more noticeable when you use older units with the teams they were used at release with. Somebody like JY became mostly good because of sparkle. Using him without sparkle makes the dps checks much more noticeable. FX is weird, she’s a not a traditional preservation but I would still put forth argument Aventurine is better, if only by virtue of what some of his traces and kit can do. Totally understand that one being a spicy take though. I think people forget power level also does include ease of use. Technically JY can perform the same as Acheron but he takes so much more effort to get there. It’s why I consider JL to be the best/second best trad hypercarry. She doesn’t necessarily have numbers that floor everyone else, but she’s ridiculously easy to build.
The issue is that no matter what people want to believe, everybody is at risk of being power crept. Which in my opinion, as a free to play player, just kind of sucks. Topaz for example, who is my favorite character, and I'm currently building. Take it like this, let's say that Topaz has a damage multiplier of 30% for her damage output. (Not accurate, just an example) Sounds good right? Well, the next character is said to have a kit based around supporting and follow up attacks, but has a 45% damage multiplier. AND they can attack twice as many times as Topaz. Now, Topaz has a better unit than her that might be better in every scenario. I could keep using Topaz, but if the next wave of enemies to be introduced just keep getting beefier and beefier, Topaz gets worse and worse as her 30% damage can't keep up with this fake character's 45%. And now I need even better stats and relics to even possibly have a chance to kill the enemy. At some point, Topaz may just not be able to compete with enemies 2 or 3 full versions down the line, which in my opinion, isn't right. Also, with how the three new elite bosses added as of 2.2 clearly have more health than previous bosses just pisses me off. (Red Violin Girl, Golden guy with the Mohawk and DoT applying cup, and cage head looking dude lol) Two of them have easy abilities to deal with, with the third kind of sucking. The only thing stopping me from killing them is they have more health. Because any boss/elite enemy that came before them? I can kill them without fail. These three? They just tank and tank and tank and WONT. DIE. Sorry for the long rant, just wanted to point out that my dear Topaz may not be usable at some point in the future
"instead of doing productive" me whos procrastinating having to make 3 suture samples, an argumentative essay, a physics quiz, a dissection study, and a video editing in 7 hours:
I listened to this and I can definitely understand what you mean about that the power creep is there, with Acheron mainly, but I digress. Enjoy your days
Powercreep doesn't matter as long as MoC 10 aka the OG setup of MoC can still be cleared with Old Characters It would be a real problem MoC 10 is unclearable with old units
yeah exactly . Genshin's 1.0 unites are still able to clear Abyss 12 just fine , some of them are still meta lol . so i hope Hoyo will do the same thing with HSR, which is the case so far .. 1.0 characters are still competitive to this day even after the release of stronger unites
There's another hsr content creator who was able to 35/36 star recent moc and 12/12 pure fiction on an entirely warpless account. Yes, the content is becoming more difficult but when someone is able to nearly full clear current content with teams of E0 4-stars, the game is still in a pretty healthy state
@@ImagineCats9339 That's because genshin end game content is ultra easy, to the point where you can just clear with 4* or any dendro reaction, while hsr actually gives you sense of challenge
I dont think we can really talk abt powercreep when the first 5* a full year later can still 0 cycle moc 12. As for jing yuan he was already a very very wierd character with too many weaknesses and inconsistencies so releasing a better unit just meant releasing an average or above average unit (let'signore the fact that she is also an ANNIVERSARY unit.). For sampo' and bs's case it's natural for a 4* to get powercrept by a 5*.
In my opinion, the core of the problem is that HSR's gameplay is absurdly simple for a turn-based combat game: - You only have access to 3 options (Basic Attack, Skill and Ultimate) - The only universal mechanic is Weakness Break - No option such as Block, Skip turns, or pass your turn to another character. - Etc... This means there is a strong limit on how creative a character's kit can be without it being just "More Damage" or "More buffs", and even if you add a gimmick like Acheron needing Debuffs to activate her Ultimate still doesn't change the end result that she deals more damage than any other Lightning DPS in the game. There will come a time when characters will need to have the equivalent of 3 or 4 different kits in 1 to stay in the match, and I have no doubt that in the future we will have, for example: - A Shielder that also heals and cleanse - A Healer that converts excess healing in Shields - A Buffer that applies Immunity to Debuffs to the entire team - A Debuffer that makes enemies take Universal Weakness Damage - Etc...
Bro is literally yapping with a very loose structure to pre-recorded gameplay. No hate on this guy, but the bar is much higher for even short-form video essays/rants like this. My man, even you can do this with freeware...
If HSR powercreep is bad, honkai impact 3rd is the worst of them all. Genshin is the least to be affected by powercreep out of the 3 hoyo games ive played and spent money on
Honestly there are so many things that Hoyo can do that aren't related to character power creep that all of this really doesn't matter at the end of the day. The specific buffs we get in end game content are so huge that most of the time playing to the strength of the buff rather than based on who is the strongest character is preferrable. Pure Fiction is a perfect example of that. It's basically a character check, usually for the character who is currently on banner. If you don't have them it will be much harder for you no matter what. So far that hasn't stopped me from getting all the stars in both MoC and PF since 1.2 but it could happen one day. Also yes you are overstating the powercreep, keep in mind we were relying on a lot of standard banner units until recently and it's only natural that Hoyo wants to make them sub-optimal if not unusable. Meanwhile Seele is our first limited unit and she's still consistently rated above the majority of DPS including many who released after her. Also hard disagree that Aventurine "slam dunks" Gepard. He is better overall but for sustain they are pretty similar, as in they both can sustain perfectly in any content we have at the moment.
Bro the reason why all the LIMITED 5*s are "powercreep" is because 1. They are LIMITED 5*s and there's an expectation that they are better than standard 5*s or any 4*s. 2. They are making niches that were previously unfilled (by other limited 5*s) thereby Setting the Standard for what these units should be able to do because there was literally not a standard for what it should even be yet. People were saying the same type of shit when Genshin was in 1.x because THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING > Venti set the standard for CC and is still arguably the best in that niche > Klee was really OP at the time because of a pre-nerf Xingqiu > Childe set the standard for 5* hydros and made the meta, showing how high hydro application makes teams around itself (arguably still is depending on your opinion on neuvillette and the international team) > Zhongli (needed the buff but) basically makes you invincible with otherwise shit gear, and he is still the best shielder and decent as a debuffer > Albedo > "Ganyu does as much damage as an entire Diluc Combo with one charge shot!!!" > Xiao set the standard for Anemo carry and is good at consolidating damage and can make use of otherwise useless VV relics (atk goblet, sands) and is still arguably the best Anemo carry > ... why did keqing have a banner? > Hu Tao needs no introduction, every new pyro dps is compared against her > Eula uh set the standard for phys dps and still is the best phys dps... even if she has downsides > Kazuha is still one of the best supports in the game, and people argue that he powercrept Venti in CC and anemo support Then to get to the current patch equivalent in hsr > Ayayaka set the standard for cryo dps > Yoimiya set the standard for auto-attack low-skill hypercarry > Raiden CHANGED EVERYTHING because of energy and set the standard for onfield electro carry (Rational team comp made it into memes > Kokomi was honestly underhyped because she's a good healer who did decent damage Even your examples of "Direct Powercreep" aren't really direct powercreep. JY is less damage in some ways than Acheron, but he uses supports that Acheron doesn't use. Huehue is better damage which I can understand as being powercreep for Luocha, but Luocha has more healing and more easily accessible healing off their turn, meaning he finds it easier to run more speed and be more SP positive while being able to run the Penacony set for an Imaginary carry. Even Fu Xuan who can solo sustain while providing a buff and protecting more against 1 shots and crowd control than the other sustains isn't as good as some other units for dot comps. Everyone is powercreeping JY because of how underwhelming he is. I think the most direct powercreep is probably Jingliu over Blade. Blade does so much less damage than Jingliu in the blast damage, low SP cost, hp drain niche, both of them want Luocha to counteract HP drain, and both of them want Bronya to make use of extra SP, dmg% buff, and action advance. They basically want the same teams but Jingliu is just better. Once we get a base of limited 5*s to get an idea of the general power level, we can "powercreep" from there. If you're genshin, you basically don't powercreep again until 4.X patch. Of course, I have my eyes out for what's going to happen with Robin and Boothill, but even then they are creating a niche that limited 5* units haven't yet. FUA focused buffer, Dedicated Break/Phys dps are new unit types.
i cant belive peaople had problems with beating aventerine boss, the one hardest for me was miss gigantic boobs (phantillia) which makes sense becase all you can do is rub her boobs still she sleeps i mean cmon' your too small to do danmage she just pretends to take damage so tickle her boobs.
I don't understand all this crying about power creep. Every time a quantum weakness shows up i insta use QQ or Xueyi, for the simple reason that i like them and i don't have any other quantum dps, and even without Silver Wolf i still can clear 36* every single time. Now, i understand that there's shit ton of stronger characters now. In fact, i will probably just use firefly on an quantum weakness floor when i'm not feeling playing QQ or Xueyi, most likely because it's going to be faster. But even if i didn't had Firefly that doesn't mean i wouldn't be able to clear those stages with 3* anymore because "The older characters feel off".
If MOC and Purefiction can still be cleared using 4 Stars and 5 Stars standard banner then there is no power creep. But then again, there is no power creep in a pve single player game. Because the new dps can clear end game content faster than the previous one is not count as a power creep, because you get the same amount of rewards. If zero turn MOC give you 1800 jade and need you to use the new character but more than one turn give you 100 jade, then yes that is a power creep and I will delete the game my self if that's happen. As for now enjoy the character that you like. For a new player or other player, don't listen to all those content creator. I understand they need to make content, and they will always hype up the new character no mater what saying this is the new meta, the best dps support etc.
There was definitely an upscale in power creep with the Acheron release, as the current MoC version is a lot more difficult to anything we've had in the past. However, this still mostly applies to MoC 12, which is by no means mandatory to clear in order to enjoy the game. Pure Fiction is for all we know still unchanged, and we're going to get a new Simulated Universe game mode that by the sound of it, will cater more to casuals as well, as well as a new end game game mode which will be more aimed at hardcore players. I agree with your general concern of power creep, but power creep is inevitable. I however don't agree with you that power creep has been that bad, because other games suffer way more from power creep especially if there's a PvP aspect to it as well. The early Star Rail experience was actually quite difficult. It took several months for non-whales to get their account up to speed. I started during the Luocha banner and I wasn't able to consistently clear both sides of MoC until well after 4 months or so of playing, and to many veterans, the end game is in many ways actually too easy. I could auto MoC and still clear it within 10 cycles no problem, but you can hardly call it content when players clear it within 10-20 min of game time to then just wait 2 weeks to get new content to do the same thing with. I wouldn't even consider myself a very sweaty player. I buy the monthly pass and the battle pass, I only splurged once during the DHIL banner because I really liked the character, and while I could at least in the past MoC try hard and 0 cycle, I couldn't care that much about it, honestly, because the only reward I get is to say I did it, and yeah, I've done it so now I go back to my 2-3 cycle clears. Yes, it is frustrating when the game becomes more difficult and you don't get to choose your difficulty, and while it can feel like a punishment that you can no longer 3* the entirety of the MoC like you could before without significant effort, your solution is always presented to you, which is to pull on a new character banner. It eventually boils down to why you play this game. Some people just like collecting characters and that's just as fair as it is for those who like to engage with the end game. With that said, other games have solved power creep of old units with awakening style approaches, and I'm sure we'll see something similar for Star Rail down the line. It's not healthy for the game to release too many new characters because it leads to very frustrating experiences for the players, and that's pretty easy to fix by letting old characters power up. There's already a mechanic to let players swap between different character variations, so clearly that's something the devs have already thought about.
I honestly don't understand the discussion about power creep, is a single player game, the only thing you get from hard content is SOME jades, and honestly I saw ppl clearing that content you only 4* at e0, the whole power creep thing is exaggerated and only induses fomo
I made it to the end xD Just listening while walking home from work lol. I'm not a exacly a hardcore player, sure I enjoy the game and try to beat the current game content, but I have noticed the power creep. Some bosses are near impossible to beat in my opinion unless you have the newer characters, simply because they are designed to be beat by certain characters. A little frustrating. Me and some friends was just yesterday talking about how Loucha will soon with this progress be benched because while his healing is strong, he cant out heal when characters are one hit on max hp. Some powercreep is good I think, but the speed hsr is going at is surprising. Anyways, enjoyed your video!
I didn't know what to think about powercreep until recently where I changed my mind 2 times For the info, I have E1S1 JY, E2S1 Dhil, E0S1 Seele, E1S1 Acheron as my dps and all of them are at 80/190 cr/cd Firstly, I thought that powercreep was massive when I pulled for Acheron Then, I tried my Seele and Jingyuan in my Dhil hypercarry (Ruan Mei/Sparkle/Tingyun), and what a surprise, JY was okk at best but Seele was hitting so hard, she isn't clearing as fast as my E2 Dhil, but she isn't that far behind him and my Acheron I was still able to 0 cycle with Seele so imo powercreep is not an issue for the moment (after 1 year) Also, standard character being powercrept isn't an issue either (you didn't mentionned it but many cc are talking about that)
Generally speaking in hsr power creep is a thing but should never matter because I beileve the only reason it should actually effect gameplay is when it's pvp because pve is just you against Ai let's go with Arlan for example he's able to clear the hardest content in the game but of course this means you need more investment now you may not agree with me but I Feel like if the game doesn't go to a way where you need so much just to take down an Enemy I feel like Seele can be somewhat timeless it just depends its because Resurgence is such a strong Abillity and this doesn't mean that the dmg seele can do now is gonna stay like that forever as time goes on better and more broken supports will release that are better than another but that doesn't mean seele will only be buffed everyone else will but because of that it gives the possibility for older characters to shine with those new broken supports feel free to disagree no hate please
I feel like you should have gone more detail in the plight of the launch 4 stars and how for the most part the gulf between them and the launch 5 star roster was reasonably wide but a year later it's hard to even compare them with the more "modern" limited 5 stars. I remember when there were people praising Serval to the high heavens as the F2P savior unit and to not pull for Jingyuan because she was "close enough" in terms of damage but now we have Kafka paired with Black Swan, we have Acheron, hell we even have souped up supports and relic sets for Jingyuan that widen the gulf between Serval and these five star powerhouses. Seriously though, how are units like Hook, Arlan and even old favorites like Sushang supposed to compete with some of these limited 5 star units? Obviously the new units ought to be stronger but should they be upwards of 500% stronger (Arlan -> Acheron and that's generous)?
The only reason why I got Kafka and Black Swan is because they were hot and I wanted them based on design, gameplay and kit came second for me and now they’re my favorite type of gameplay for me seeing enemies take cancer every turn is honestly fucking funny, and now both of them are meta. I don’t really think powercreep is a issue that needs to be addressed since you can still clear content with 1.x characters albeit at a much higher investment than 2.x characters. Just that players will always play with their favorites even if they do get powercrept
I don't see any problem over A char creeping B char as far as the B char keeps being good with help of the newer support units and sets and that it can perform *COMPETITIVELY* cycles wise, competitively meaning I can clear the content in similar cycle counts or better if I put more effort than the person with the newer objectively stronger unit. I own Jing and Acheron on diff accs and in my specific limited view she doesn't do MoC way faster, she does a lot of other things better than him and is better in the general sense of the word, but not much better or to the point I can't just skip her on my first acc and perform extremely well in cycles anyways thanks to my sparkle, and I get to contrast and compare so I don't have to buy anyone's fabricated opinion I can see it in action and make conclusions myself of if the creep matters to me after testing it. In fact, in the Aventurine boss fight they perform about the same at least for now at 4 cycles each, until the time my acheron becomes stronger with stronger nihility companions with more investment vs my day 1 jing yuan edition with excellent investment, fua set and Sparkle. Same thing with Yanqing, I haven't used him in ages, I used to HATE him, I pull up aventurine and 4 cycle boss aventurine at the same speed as my Jing or Acheron with a crappy cruising in the stellar sea and spare relics i had lying around but do it faster than my friends with Jingliu E0S1 at 5 cycles because the boss fight is poorly designed and in general bad for her and she has nice investment and my friend has worked longer on her, showing me as far as the char is not way worse acheron or jingliu can be objectively superior upgrades but if I don't feel like it I won't pull them and that's that, and I have peace of mind I own them in another account, put effort into them to carry me and they're not always better than the other chars so the creep is not affecting my older chars as far as I plan my pulls and set my priorities straight. The only issue is yeah, if I don't pull the supports then I am left in a bad spot, but I am fine with the way things are as of now.
Powercreep will never matter unless mihoyo took into consideration the new norm and raised the bar of difficulty for endgame content, which would progressively ruin the game. For powercreep to matter the difference in viability between a character has to be so insanely immense it's an active discouragement to use one over pulling for the other, I think gepard lovers will still forever love gepard even if adventurine just outclasses him. In terms of the powercreep itself however, I'm fairly certain mihoyo (at least in genshin) avoids major powercreep by releasing synergistic kits in the future, alongside things like having cooperative based damage ceilings (most of the time) and a linear (arguably stale) "endgame". Specifically referring to the dedicated support line (the bows: goroou, faruzan, kujou sara). They have general buffs that CAN be applied to a wide variety, however they also serve niches that excel with particular characters. So having a gorou, kujou sara, or faruzan isn't a COMPLETE loss even if you dont have their intended target of support. Something like using a gorou on ningguang works (let's pretend in an AU she "powercreeps" itto) and buffs her, but her gap between itto is closed signficantly because of the defense buffs on gorou. Something like that.
Yeah I can 101 % relate to that Statement about casuals. They play every day and get angry when they cant defeat anything. Genshin or Star Rail. I always get angry and want to say "if you dont read and care how the game works...and you want to play it without actually PLAYING it...why dont you just quit?" But I pause myself since comments like these wont change anything. I just think its weird that we played harder games without to much issues when we were kids...and now people (even at an older age) struggle to beat the easiest content. But yeah...people became more stupid do to TikTok and other stuff... so it makes sense. Also funny that my 2 most investet teams are Kafka, Blackswan, Guinaifen and HuoHuo and Topaz, Tingyun, Lynx and Clara. ❤ Love those playstiles.
I agree with you, but i have to say it isnt all that bad, one good thing is that i can use some of my favorate characters with these new powercreepers, like blackswan/sampo and yanqing/aventurine, you can latch onto their OPness. i thought about my characters being bad overtime but i realized that no matter what, as long as you win within a time limit, i dont care if my characters are powercrept because i cleared the hardest content in the game within 10 turns with a team that includes my favorite low tier character, and nobody can say i didnt.
Theyre gonna release more jingliu tier units and then units who are just on par or a tiny bit worse than acheron. I bet itll be that way for a loooong time. Content in general wont move in a direction where you need all these new units. This game is like genshin where they want people out there to still pull for characters like seele and topaz and jingliu
If you really like a certain character and you want for them to compete against newer character you could try to get their signature and eidolons everytime they have a rerun.
I think 5* dmg dealers are still alright as long as their dmg is relevant. (except Himeko, she sucks in MOC. I regarded Yan Qing to be bad but with Adventurine release....) But, sustains are more obvious on the power creep like Huo Huo vs Bailu, Adventurine vs Gepard. Those 2 are even trashed by newer 4*. I'm always sadge when I rolled for any of the 2 trash in standard banner. Harmony is the most balanced role.
7:24 You probably meant to say 4*. And he is incredible breaker. On top of that, you can use him with her starting from E4 since her unique DoT is also a windsheer. Obviously, Kafka would be better ally for BS but using Sampo is also an option. p.s. I can already hear clicking of jinyuan main's keyboard trying to make a World Record of death threats on internet in one minute after watching this video.
The only way to solve Powercreep is to introduce a system where old characters can actually be used because new characters can be locked after each use (you have to build more characters sure, but rerun sales would actually mean something)
At least HSR did something about it with Swarm Disaster, Gold and Gears, Pure Fiction.. While yes the first two doesn't do much, but PF does a lot to bring back older unit like Himeko, Herta, Serval, Asta, Clara, Argenti (new but no place before)
Locking characters sounds insanely gross. Anyways yeah hsr already enabled differing characters. Pure fiction needing high aoe attacks. Even swarm gepards shield is wont get you one shot unlike fu xuan. The only real problem is hunt in any hunt units they seem to never top tier. With moc Sam Death and now Aventurine. Hunt was mid doable but dot destruction mostly dan heng il and now one of the worst bosses for hunt. Im not saying hunts weak but hunts never the best. To which depending on your account is pretty sad
@@craycoco7747 it’s a break game mode… they also didn’t strictly lock units… they made an existing archetype more useable but that doesn’t remove the problem of power creep since the best of that archetype will still be the ones balanced around in the future until hp numbers increase to the point where older units with worse scaling can’t perform… a unit like that is Blade and it shows since he is nearly unused across all game modes due to his inherently terrible multipliers and a hp increase to enemies
It's no different from Genshin which is often *praised* for how it handles powercreep. Even down the patches characters released, it's so similar: a meta defining dps (Jingliu, Hu Tao) around 1.4, a meta defining support (Ruan Mei, Kazuha) around 1.6, Mei expy which everyone batchests as the strongest dps in the game and encourages people to pull for c2/e2 around 2.1. At this rate we'll get hyperbloom in 3.x to help new hsr players clear endgame without 2 years of resin investment. So I'm kinda :shrug: Time will tell.
I really thing this powercreep is concerning, what would be the next best dps in a year or so? I'm 100% sure isnt gonna be DHIL, Jingliu nor even Acheron. That's why is concerning, there is no future proof in any dps
2:18 “Yes, being f2p technically exists…but for the vast majority of players, they are going to spend some amount of money…” Is there data to support this? Polls, sales data, anything concrete we can point to? Or is this just speculation? I’ve been wondering about this. What % of players do we think remain f2p throughout their experience versus how many spend money? And what’s the breakdown on within those who spend money, what’s the distribution on whales, dolphins, light spenders?
wait i always heard MOST players in these kinds games DONT spend money or spend very LITTLE money, and only a few mirroring the few elites on this planet spend 1000s bucks like it's water.
So it's mostly a problem because it set a bad precedent for the future. But to be fair this level of Powercreep is typically normal for Gacha and in many cases so is directly buffing older units Genshin is more so the outlier same In its measure for avoiding Powercreep and 1 form of Endgame which allows it to be played as a standard game While the argument is "Well I can still beat floor 12 with Seele" the scale in which enimeies are forced to meet character creep is intense Ask yourself in a year when 50% of the roster is made obsolete and you feel pressured to keep up is it still fine We have roles that already overlap making the Category System (Nihility Harmony ECT) pointless All of this is basically built on whether Gacha was something you were introduced to by Genshin or Not A lot of new people don't get how messed up Gacha games get and take for granted how slow Genshin was In most Gacha 4 stars have zero value outside early game but in Genshin they have value almost always Is Powercreep in HSR Bad to the regular standards of Gacha No but Genshin has skewered people perception into thinking these games are fair about how they make content It why to a lot of people free currency and rewards dont mean shit but to the gacha brain there everything It why in th long term it will get Honkai 3rd levels of absurds To those who feel depressed about this the pull economy will lessen the blow and youll get more currency overtime But the amount of effort to make older units viable will reduce and unless your a day one player you wont be able to keep up
Firefly Gallagher Ruan Mei and HMC will be the first and last team I will actually build to the max , I'm a sim universe nerd and that is pretty much a different game I am happy with 6-8 star PF well until I get more characters and 30 stars on MoC
The real big issue is clickbates like seele is broken or this character is really good, if you are enjoying the game that's it.I want jinglu i go for her i want seele i go for her.
yes thats natural, everyone will be powercrept at some point, but they keep on buffing the old one too which is why i still play with some characters. as f2p im not geting many new and thats fine. im curious how they will top acheron one day. she is puting the level a little bit too high
The first part is understandable, and I’m not worried. It’s the second part of “how tf are they going to make someone better then Acheron” that makes me concerned.
@@kaxdra simple put the nuke into the skill and add a new nuke on the burst, or give the burst some buffs too, to make the skill/team deal more damage, idk, the day acheron will be powercrept is the day everyone will cry
@@dekunny9225Firefly outperforms her, but not by a significant margin at E0S0 and E0S1, and E2 Firefly is out of this world, the only point where Acheron outperforms Firefly is E6, but meh, who cares.. But again, its not like Acheron is just dead in a ditch, more like they both are gonna be dps standarts
No… powercreep is just inherently bad… it’s a gacha game, if powercreep is getting discussed rampantly within such a community, it’s not a good sign… this seems like copium or just a luxury perspective to say that it’s ok…
I mean, the only problem is the hp of enemies in MoC, we went from fighting a 1.6M hp sam to fighting a 2.0M hp Aventurine in half an update, that's 400k hp Still Sam is way more difficult to fight than Aventurine, but it's a big jump Still people still do 0 cycles with seele and other older characters, you just need to optimize builds which takes a lot of rng which sucks to most people I've accepted that for the effort I'm willing to give to this game I'm only going to hit MoC 10 at maximum, which I'm ok with
Tbh I find it so funny when those kinds of metaslaves whine about a certain character not being "useful" anymore. Like yes they may not be the best at their job anymore but they are still completely viable to use and clear most content.
good luck powercreeping acheron as time progresses with certain releases she will get stronger hell ill take another archeron type character moc ez mode
with leak of Robin, she seems to be better than Ruan Mei on both follow up team and dual dps team. The only team Ruan Mei have over Robin is break team. If you don't believe me just look up the video on RUclips. It's unfathomable for me how a couple months ago during Ruan Mei release, she was the best Harmony support the game has ever seen and now she's getting the Fu Xuan treatment (with aventurine release)
Yeah your character will always get power crept by future characters to keep the game fresh and keep sales up. But right now all the content is doable with old charecters. Selle is still very good with day one charecters like bronya or tinyung and I’d say maybe fuxuan/aventurine are the only charecters close to a must pick. Even herta a charecter that the game will give you for free is meta in certain content. Aslong as content is doable with old charecters then power creep is fine.
FAQ
I actually have no idea, just ask your questions and I'll try and answer them. Except if its Jing Yuan related. I will slander you.
Genuinely respectfully
Do you think Blade is future proof? Even though Bronya is like the best support for him, I still feel like he is missing that butter in his bread; like a HP buffer(no lynx buffs to him are not good).
So that's my question, will there a hp buffing harmony unit? No actually scrap that. Will a dedicated Blade support unit can even push him to the upper echelons of damage dealers considering his scalings? If you want to bring Blade back to the meta what kind of a support would you design for him?
@@sunnypa7101Hmm, possibly? He does have a niche as a sort of very simple to build character but I think that unfortunately is also his downfall, his simplicity is what makes him vulnerable. If I were to design a support, I would do something like Furina from Genshin where they provide a damage boost based on the amount of HP lost.
I think mainly acheron is not a problem as her superior power scaling can attribute to some story related reasons such as her being and "emanator" it makes sense in my head as in genshin basically all archons are overpowered and future proof. what are your thoughts on this?
@kaxdra A hsr furina is a really great idea! For instance, in a blade×JL team, they take away a lot of the team's hp, including hsr furina, which could give them loads of dmg% for infinite turns since this team takes away the team's hp every turn, but the flaw I find in this team is they are really vulnerable to defeat. Only a competitive healer(even better than luocha) can solo sustain this team since there are 3 party members trying to off themselves😆.
Anyways, it's nice chatting with you. Good luck with your future content.
i think the most important point, rather than unfair or unbalance new character is "can you enjoy the game with your fav characters?". Lets say you love Jingyuan Aventurine or Ratio, now heres FUA team. Or lets say you love to play with niche archetypes, here kafka dots and acheron nihility team. Hoyo pumping tons of character is bringing said team and archetypes to be complete and can play the game enjoyably.
Power creep? Nah im okay with my sushang
ok mister I-Have-No-Resin
@@notjeih what's your problem m8?
Edit : the thing is you're right, I don't play genshin no more, so technically speaking i have no resin
cant wait for sushang 5 star version
@@eluxi2538 her chicken better be a phoenix reincarnation
Edit : I mean it is, but its still a chick
wow based
Topaz and Kafka being future proof be like: “What is powercrept”
Topaz gonna get replaced by Jade
@@user-qr3lr7sh1gno? what makes you think that??
@@user-qr3lr7sh1gHow?
@@user-qr3lr7sh1gNo jade and topaz goes well together
@@user-qr3lr7sh1gnot exactly.. Based on the leaks so far about Jade, both serves a different role..
Topaz ia single target fire fua unit that buff fua and allows her to have faster fua..
While Jade is a multitarget aoe fua unit that from the looks of thing is better suited for stuff like Pure Fiction..
"...Insted of doing something productive"
*Me who's listening to this while cleaning my house* 😎😌
Thank you! A lot of HSR players seem to hold the opinion that power creep can only be considered a problem once Seele, who was released all the way back in 1.0, stops being viable. The problem with this argument is that limited 5-star privilege goes a long way. She was the best DPS in the game, of course you're gonna think everything's fine if she's your only canary in the coal mine! But now we're far enough into Star Rail's lifespan that we've seen limited 5-stars for every path, and it's very clear just how much MHY wants to enforce the gap between 4-stars and 5-stars. God forbid you actually liked Natasha, or Arlan, or Sampo, because then you'll have to choose between using an objectively better character instead or knowingly investing more resources to get less results. If you look at Prydwen's MoC data, it's clear that ~70-80% of 4-stars simply do not exist in endgame content, and I don't see why this should be the case.
Part of the power creep formula is harder content, too. Skaracabaz is a pretty egregious example, that boss is absurdly tanky and hits like a truck. It DEMANDS a properly-invested team, even during story mode (if anything, moreso since you can't use support characters), which you probably don't have if you're just trying to clear story content and unlock the boss that lets you invest in, say, Dr. Ratio's traces. It's harder than the trials you need to complete to increase your equilibrium level, which in turn would make it even harder. And this was all the way back in 1.6! Sure, nothing since has been so egregiously difficult outside of endgame, but if something like this happened again I'm convinced a lot of the playerbase would just write it off as new players having a skill issue and be glad their Fu Xuan hasn't totally trivialized the game for them.
I dunno, it's just sad to see HYV relapse into doing the usual gacha bullshit I hate after Genshin seemed like a step in the right direction.
Omg wait that’s my black swan 🥺
Great video. I agree 100% that while people say power creep doesn't exist because "all characters can clear all content", they omit the fact that doing so with older characters takes a significant amount of effort compared to the almost relatively plug-and-play nature of newer units.
People will also say the game is "easy" because older units and 4-stars can clear all content, but once again, they omit how much effort and time it takes to do so when the newer units take the content to pound town. I'm not sure why the community leverages this talking point so much, but if the effort-to-reward ratio is skewed such that rolling the new character that fills a role you already have covered is the most optimal play for your account at any given moment, it can feel really bad to use or even like an older character even if they can clear the same content as the new unit. I feel this with Acheron, especially since I skipped her.
On top of that, if the best option to clear new content is to roll the new unit, it's pretty demotivating especially if you're a f2p player.
dont really see why people say older units need more effort tbh, they need about the same as any new unit, only exceptions are jingliu (who needs less than most) and jing yuan (who needs more than most). definitely wouldnt say they take a "significant" amount
@@Internextion Idk, I think its weird to make the assertion that all units need as much effort as eachother when it's clear that a unit like acheron's power level was tuned the way it was at just a base level.
If you are asserting that clearing the hardest content with a character like Yanqing/hook takes about the same effort as with Acheron, that sounds questionable at best.
@@OhManDude but im not asserting that it takes the same amount of effort for yanqing and hook, im asserting that it takes the same for dan heng, seele, ratio, blade, etc. doesnt matter if yanqing or hook are worse, they're not limited 5 stars, thus not relevant to the conversation.
@@Internextion my bad, I didn't comprehend what you said completely.
However, I think the existence of JingLiu herself was already bad enough, which was an example you provided. A character like her that has such a low investment floor to perform competitively, made it kind of suck for anyone who didn't own her and was struggling.
With Acheron now here, and seeing how she performs at low and high investment, I still think it's weird to say she needs the same investment as Seele or Blade to perform.
At lowest base line investment level and the right teams, I think she blows Seele, for example, out of the water in terms of ease-of-use AND performance.
@@OhManDude tbf i agree with you but i think moc rotations are very favorable for specific units and 5* supports are so strong that that investment gap still isnt that important. i know a dude 3 starring with a mid investment jing yuan, and another dude clearing with fucking serval lmao. as good as jingliu is, i still dont think shes good enough to warrant someone needing to worry about getting her or not or feeling bad for not having her. she cant brute force non-ice weak at low investment, so i dont think we have to fear powercreep just yet.
and while i agree acheron is incredibly powerful, even for low investment builds, she still feels pretty lc reliant, and as someone who doesnt have black swan or silverwolf, it feels like even she struggles vs someone like aventurine boss. which goes to show that i dont think the investment difference between dps is nearly as important as just having more units
Hoyo has plenty of runway left. Just create new problems and sell the solutions.
For instance, Acheron. How do you shut down this powerful character? Simple, make new enemies immune to debuffs. How do you fix it? You can buff old characters, say, Luocha, by making it so that you have to strip a particular enemy buff to make them vulnerable to debuffs again. Oh btw we're releasing a new character with a kit that fixes this exact problem, but with a skill instead of an ultimate! Aventurine approves.
Expect every new story / map / endgame mode to have new enemies that counter specific metas / archetypes, incentivizing players to keep pulling the solutions. Hoyo just needs to tweak the numbers so that it doesn't scare the casual playerbase too badly.
Yeah, a self-buff that makes EFF RES 100% would be pretty ouch for non-fixed debuffs
@@Wyqkrn I mean if break teams have to deal with enemies that protect their toughness bar from depleting i dont see why not. I still dont like this "create a problem sell the solution" type of mentality though, its kind of scummy
Isn't Pela also can dispell the enemy? you don't need luocha
@@Donkam_haurdertrue but he was providing a example of how older characters can have more use .
Depending on how hoyo makes bosses and combat.
Like for shielders if hoyo ever decides to nerf them they could make a enemy that either ignores shields or bleeds into them.
@@thefearturkey6944 yeah, especially when there is only 2 characters who have dispell ability, maybe in the future we can get more of those if hoyo decide to make more of self buff enemy
Powercreep is inevitable for most games but a good game keeps it in check. In hsr powercreep is rampant, every new character since 2.0 is powercreeping old character, on the other hand genshin also got things like neuvillete & hyperbloom but it took 2-3 years later while hsr is only in it's first year and the powercreep is this bad already. People claiming that powercreep is good have the luxury to pull every new character that comes out. It feels so sh*tty when old players struggle to clear moc with jing yuan while a new player can just blast enemies with their Acheron.
Every single patch since Imbibitor Lunae has power crept the previous one. Every new character has power crept all the previous ones. Every single MOC has had enemies with more health an damage than the previous ones. At this rate the game forces you to pay up or else. Normal people, even low spenders, will not be able to keep up with this. it's getting ridiculous. I went from being able to clear MOC to not being able to clear it anymore despite getting most of the new broken characters. It's not just getting the characters. It's the investment part as well. This game requires you to build and invest in so many different characters that it is impossible to keep up with it unless you refresh your stamina with jades.
Game is very simplistic. They really can't make many new things(and they all boils down to "press e" and win). So new characters will be always better than old ones - because otherwise revenue will suffer, and players won't be happy too, because there is simply nothing left for Hoyo to do, it's a big flaw of gameplay itself. Also, many gachas buff characters(FGO, Arknights, it's just a Genshin problem), but buffs may be not impactful sometimes.
I agree, the worrisome part about such a fast paced power progression is that enemies are made to scale off the strength of new characters. Been feeling this problem ever since Jingliu patch. I think they will slow down a tiny bit after Acheron though, or at least Robin and Boothill don't seem as comparatively busted.
“Your favorite will get powercrept”
Jokes on you, Jing Yuan has been powercrept for a long time, Im immune to this pain
He gets buffed every other patch but at the same time gets powercrept constantly, it's hilarious 😂
"your favorite character will be powercreep in 6 months and you WILL be happy"
I totally agree! As an F2P, I found it unfair when Acheron came out, making the enemies disappear instantly. However, in the current patch, we also have a super break mechanic that is very friendly to F2P players. I hope HSR's future content can keep old characters viable, or indirectly buff them by releasing support that fits with the old character kits. I love playing hard content, but not so hard that it forces me to roll for an overpowered character just to clear it. I came late, but this video earned you a sub. It's a great video tbh.
People are acknolwedging that they are playing a Gacha Game and yet also deny that they are playing at Gacha game when they believe that Power Creep is not a thing. Like Gacha like Gambling only few wins most are losers so it is better not to compare what others got and just enjoy what you get.
Out of all the Gacha's I've played, I think Blue Archive handles a huge roster the best. There are very few overly apparent or straight-up power-creep moments in that game despite a roster the size of a small city primarily because of the amount of niches that characters can provide. Aside from just their kits, there's also terrain and damage and armor types and weapon types that come into play. Aside from that, the sheer amount of content that is in BA allows niche units to shine when those events come back around.
I think if HSR can lean into niches, utilize more variables instead of just "how fast can you clear," and really give their units room to breathe, the narrative of "power creep" will die down. The only reason it's so apparent now, is because endgame (MoC) is mostly just about how fast you can clear-- meanwhile Golden Gears has some of that endgame variety, but it's so tied up to RNG and so extreme that it's often overshadowed and disregarded as "endgame content."
Something like rotating end-game raids that require different ways to clear, or a different MoC-like content without turn-requirements, and instead go for fights of attrition, or a different mode where certain characters gain special buffs based on who they are or what they specialize in, instead of what their kit is.
TLDR: We need variety in endgame content that leans into niches, instead of just cycle-counts.
I think that the argument that every new 5* limited character being best just falls apart when you consider 3 very important points: the best before that was a character with consistency problems, so it isn't hard for a new character to become a standard, the order in which characters were released was intentional, so the better ones will get released later, while the ones that will get the most indirect buffs will be released first (they know what they are doing, this isn't their first game), and every 5* character is supposed to be best in their niche, as their goal is to still earn money from reruns of the character in the future. Also have a hard time taking someone who is saying that SW become new standard for a debuffer seriosly, when I remember quite a lot of discussions that boiled down to: SW only being good because we don't have many characters build, and Pela being better than SW, because Pela is AoE.
On the related note it is surprising how much of powercreep is just the "powercrept" character just being below average on release, which makes the powercreep only a matter of time until they release another similar character that is average. And while talking about average is hard for small sample size, it is pretty easy to compare how characters with similar roles perform, and try to find average value and what should be expected, and a lot of powercreept characters are just this. I also feel like designers didn't understand how much Sustain characters need to do until 1.5, but saying I also think that a good portion of Sustain's value is in their SP generation with the "weaker ones" generating more.
Also I find it funny how you said that BS is just better than Sampo, while in my mind they never shared the same role, with BS being AoE DD and Sampo being an ST Breaker. On related note, people just ignore Break damage, and it shows nearly every time someone tries to compare performance of characters.
I can’t say I understand the people who think Sampo and BS are different. It’s splitting hairs to justify “but they’re different so it’s not power creep”. It’s power creep. Sampo and BS have the same role as a second carry in Kafka teams.
Also, break damage is ignored for a reason. It’s way too inconsistent in a practical scenario.
@@kaxdra Honestly, the idea that every niche is eventually going to get filled and then eventually going to get powercrept because character kits have limited variety (objectively) is completely valid.
So something like break damage and sampo could get indirectly buffed with a five star, similarly to DoT, and then the next time break effect is relevant a new char it would overshadow said five star.
--- --- ---
If you define powercreep as simply achieving the same end purpose as another character however, it's a misleading definition (?). I would never say a limited 5 star aoe charcter "power crept serval", I also wouldn't say she's bad on release. Position and team comps matter, infact if there was about 2 of every niche and character with relatively the same strength BEFORE some extreme overlap, we'd probably long be satisfied.
And both of those are excluding nuance in niches, two energy gens could have different rates but with various buffs, Overlap that isn't 1:1 is mostly enough to avoid powercreep so long as the "extra" isn't completely unvalued, of which can be solved by simply releasing more units.
Idk what sparkle's kit is but maybe a character who buffs CDM, like sparkle, but does so less in trade for some sort of cc.
Or a help to Gepard by increasing eff/HR of preservation characters, or something else gepard has that adventurine doesn't (idfk)
For huohuo, something that majorly buffs invigoration would work, and that could close their gap no?
If every character brings even a little bit of unique to the table, with enough characters powercreep because irrelevant I'd say (?)
ST?
@@davestew5135 Single target.
13:06 "i pulled for fu xuan" voice:
I did not. I beat him using Gepard.
@@kaxdra fair enough i guess. still 5 star preservation but, touché
@@TRGOTSVODS I used Lynx
yeah, just one Lynx
I don't have any 5* sustain and I'm waiting for Fu Xuan bc I want her.
Aventurine ? Nah, I'd skip.
@@TRGOTSVODS I used Lynx on my friend's account and Bailu on my own account.
but yeah, playing on his account vs on my account i could see the huge difference between a 5* and a 4* sustainer, i had to reset way less on my account than on his.
Powercreep is not a problem for as long as you can clear content with old designed chars. But it is inevitable in such a game
Star rail andies are the worst i have dealt with when it comes to talking about powercreep, they immediately start playing defence for hoyo the moment people try and bring up discussion on powercreep. Its very weird and frustrating.
Idc about powercreep, I will never stop using Xueyi, Ruan Mei and Fu Xuan (after I get her)
So yeah.
Also btw, I skipped Acheron and Aventurine
It is pretty concerning (And as much as I enjoy the general, I will begrudgingly admit acheron is more or less taking his throne for lightning DPS) I'd say until we get to a point where old limited can't clear MoC under any circumstances we're fine. Since, like genshin, while they cater to more end game content wanting players in HSR, keeping the game at a point where every limited is usually viable seems to be their goal. I'll point this out with the example of pure fiction. The game mode alone turned Herta and the fan favorite Himeko from only good at killing trash to godly strong for that game mode. We're likely to get new modes or events that bring older characters forward while supporting new characters. If genshin has shown anything, Hoyo is more than willing to sell a solution if a character gets enough attention. For example, Jing Yuan has steadily gotten stronger patch after patch, with sparkle likely being his peak unless we can force LL to take his turn at max stacks. Xiao, an early version 1 character for genshin, got a 4 star support specifically for anemo and as recently a premium 5 star to buff his niche. All and all, while power creep is real, we're likely to be sold the solution to further invest into older characters if we skip shiny new DPS that overlap.
Xiao didn't got a new 4-star support just for him. He got powercrept by Wandered, and so it happens, Xiao can use Wanderer's supports. He still got powercrept in same patch.
@@0kaiKai ??? They both perform at similar levels? and Xiao as stated just got a 5 star support in the way of Xianyun.
12:27 that Lunae damage 😭😭😭 we are not beating MoC 12 with this one 😭😭😭
I did in fact, beat MoC 12 with that damage. I reset more then I’d like to admit.
There's a lot worse examples of gacha's with powercreep problems. I got into PGR while waiting for WW's release, and on a new account you get to pick up 2 limited banners characters for free (S rank = 5*). Thing is, there is only one, MAAAAYBE two that are viable choices, and with CN server being ahead by a year the meta is all figured out and content creators straight up say that X will powercreep current character Y in some amount of time. In current patch, it's an A rank (4*) that equals/outperforms a starter 5* in it's category but in 2-3 patches the newest character will blow them both out of the water.
Also, high difficulty content is adjusted around the latest characters, which is obvious, but what some people tend to miss is that it sometimes is adjusted *against* the same characters later.
After FX's release, you notice how high diff MoC had the witches that blocked you from healing HP back up with that grey bar?
Your main example, or at least the one you explained the most of was Acheron vs Jing Yuan. Yes, they're both backloaded lightning DPS, but honestly even that is fine in a sense, because either one wants different teammates, and more importantly, actually very importantly: Both Genshin and HSR are built around team building, without owning Jing Yuan I know he's gotten better than on release because he can use Harmony units in his teams, compared to Acheron. In theory it takes one unit that Jing Yuan can put into his team that Acheron can't to reverse the situation, but the reverse is also true.
Overall, I get where you're coming from, and agree with being sort of "vigilant" about power creep. For now I'll just politely disagree.
5:18 Sometimes it does matter if it is a follow-up attack or a ultimate attack depending on the moc/pf buffs
On my opinion as stated in the video the current endgame is pretty easy. We shouldn't be worried about super strong units if old units can still perform well in their own good setups. Let's be real, there's a lot of 0 cycles with old units out there. Most of it only comes down to teambuilding and of course the moc/pf buffs can help sometimes. And let's not forget that Herta is S+ in PF
The "investment" talk doesn't really make sense. What character doesn't need a good crit ratio? What supports don't need to be build up? Hanabi performs better with a lot of speed, Black Swan performs considerably better at 160+ speed and 3000+ ATK, Acheron will be very weak if we don't get her a good crit ratio
For SU every character works really fine because most of it comes down to blessings and curios. Anyone can be extremely powerful
For MOC/PF, I really believe the game will be very boring if we always worry about meta and newer units. This makes older characters look weak which is not the case at all. I've been using Seele since day one (S0E0) and she has been very helpful, even against enemies with no quantum weakness. This game allows us to choose whoever we want (as long as the team makes sense against certain enemies of course) given that they're not making hard endgame modes. Although I really wish they would.
I dont really understand the next new big thing, powercreep the old one. Since at the end of the day, it is less of a character focus while it is more of a team focus. For example, the reason why Jingliu and DHIL were at the top is because there was no other competition for other types of teams. Sure, there was the fua team and the dot team, but it wasn't fleshed out as today. As of 2.x, we have Dr. Ratio, Acheron, and the break team at top. That is because we finally have options to use instead of a Hypercarry team.
well made video and i enjoy your style of ranting, however i think saying "the details dont matter" and oversimplifying IS bad, especially when they're necessary to see how powercreep hasnt become a glaring issue yet. examples like ratio being better in single-target than seele, while forgetting her entire resurgence mechanic or easier teambuilding, or saying aventurine is a better shielder than gepard while ignoring the actual comparison with fu xuan as limited preservations. i can definitely see powercreep becoming a noticeable issue later on, but they HAVE done a good job giving each character a niche so far, and the dps requirement of MOC stages hasnt reached the point where older units are struggling compared to newer units. to this day seele is still the best 0 cycle dps, and almost every limited dps can 3 cycle an on-element MOC stage. the upcoming units, robin and boothill, arent better than ruan mei or seele/jingliu/acheron. i think the community just tends to misunderstand things and blow things out of proportion, while also not considering actual scenarios. people love to talk about how strong jingliu or acheron is, but they dont consider why they're strong, their weaknesses, or their relative powerlevel compared to other dps (jingliu is not that far ahead of dan heng or seele, shes just easier to build).
tl;dr there hasn't been noticeable powercreep yet and mihoyo is doing a good job balancing units with specific niches
Excellent points. IMO, dps checks become more noticeable when you use older units with the teams they were used at release with. Somebody like JY became mostly good because of sparkle. Using him without sparkle makes the dps checks much more noticeable.
FX is weird, she’s a not a traditional preservation but I would still put forth argument Aventurine is better, if only by virtue of what some of his traces and kit can do. Totally understand that one being a spicy take though.
I think people forget power level also does include ease of use. Technically JY can perform the same as Acheron but he takes so much more effort to get there. It’s why I consider JL to be the best/second best trad hypercarry. She doesn’t necessarily have numbers that floor everyone else, but she’s ridiculously easy to build.
Quantum main here, Seele kinda sucks now even in that team.
@@zaregotoch.8491 maybe at low investment but a true main will make her work in all content
The issue is that no matter what people want to believe, everybody is at risk of being power crept. Which in my opinion, as a free to play player, just kind of sucks. Topaz for example, who is my favorite character, and I'm currently building. Take it like this, let's say that Topaz has a damage multiplier of 30% for her damage output. (Not accurate, just an example) Sounds good right? Well, the next character is said to have a kit based around supporting and follow up attacks, but has a 45% damage multiplier. AND they can attack twice as many times as Topaz. Now, Topaz has a better unit than her that might be better in every scenario. I could keep using Topaz, but if the next wave of enemies to be introduced just keep getting beefier and beefier, Topaz gets worse and worse as her 30% damage can't keep up with this fake character's 45%. And now I need even better stats and relics to even possibly have a chance to kill the enemy. At some point, Topaz may just not be able to compete with enemies 2 or 3 full versions down the line, which in my opinion, isn't right. Also, with how the three new elite bosses added as of 2.2 clearly have more health than previous bosses just pisses me off. (Red Violin Girl, Golden guy with the Mohawk and DoT applying cup, and cage head looking dude lol) Two of them have easy abilities to deal with, with the third kind of sucking. The only thing stopping me from killing them is they have more health. Because any boss/elite enemy that came before them? I can kill them without fail. These three? They just tank and tank and tank and WONT. DIE.
Sorry for the long rant, just wanted to point out that my dear Topaz may not be usable at some point in the future
sampo ironically works rly well with black swan because hes also a DoT especially with e4
He does, but Sampo/BS does not have remotely the same synergy as Kafka/BS.
@@kaxdra naturally because Kafka is the best dot partner for any dot unit in general lol
7:21 ah yes, my favourite 5 star, Sampo Koski
5*SAMPO IS REALLLL
"instead of doing productive"
me whos procrastinating having to make 3 suture samples, an argumentative essay, a physics quiz, a dissection study, and a video editing in 7 hours:
I listened to this and I can definitely understand what you mean about that the power creep is there, with Acheron mainly, but I digress. Enjoy your days
Powercreep doesn't matter as long as MoC 10 aka the OG setup of MoC can still be cleared with Old Characters
It would be a real problem MoC 10 is unclearable with old units
yeah exactly . Genshin's 1.0 unites are still able to clear Abyss 12 just fine , some of them are still meta lol . so i hope Hoyo will do the same thing with HSR, which is the case so far .. 1.0 characters are still competitive to this day even after the release of stronger unites
@@ImagineCats9339 true with my hutao team, i can easily cleared abyss ez before even have yelan.
There's another hsr content creator who was able to 35/36 star recent moc and 12/12 pure fiction on an entirely warpless account. Yes, the content is becoming more difficult but when someone is able to nearly full clear current content with teams of E0 4-stars, the game is still in a pretty healthy state
Old units are very strong, I've been clearing MOC with Seele (S0E0) and Clara and it's been easy, I dont get why people get worried about powercreep
@@ImagineCats9339 That's because genshin end game content is ultra easy, to the point where you can just clear with 4* or any dendro reaction, while hsr actually gives you sense of challenge
Great video! Underrated channel honestly, I hope you see abundant growth in the future! (Also FromSoft games mentioned POG)
I dont think we can really talk abt powercreep when the first 5* a full year later can still 0 cycle moc 12. As for jing yuan he was already a very very wierd character with too many weaknesses and inconsistencies so releasing a better unit just meant releasing an average or above average unit (let'signore the fact that she is also an ANNIVERSARY unit.). For sampo' and bs's case it's natural for a 4* to get powercrept by a 5*.
14:33 beating gold & gears lvl 12 with every path be this
In my opinion, the core of the problem is that HSR's gameplay is absurdly simple for a turn-based combat game:
- You only have access to 3 options (Basic Attack, Skill and Ultimate)
- The only universal mechanic is Weakness Break
- No option such as Block, Skip turns, or pass your turn to another character.
- Etc...
This means there is a strong limit on how creative a character's kit can be without it being just "More Damage" or "More buffs", and even if you add a gimmick like Acheron needing Debuffs to activate her Ultimate still doesn't change the end result that she deals more damage than any other Lightning DPS in the game.
There will come a time when characters will need to have the equivalent of 3 or 4 different kits in 1 to stay in the match, and I have no doubt that in the future we will have, for example:
- A Shielder that also heals and cleanse
- A Healer that converts excess healing in Shields
- A Buffer that applies Immunity to Debuffs to the entire team
- A Debuffer that makes enemies take Universal Weakness Damage
- Etc...
I dont necessarily agree with all the points but the Video quality is amazing, YOu gain a sub
Bro is literally yapping with a very loose structure to pre-recorded gameplay. No hate on this guy, but the bar is much higher for even short-form video essays/rants like this. My man, even you can do this with freeware...
If HSR powercreep is bad, honkai impact 3rd is the worst of them all. Genshin is the least to be affected by powercreep out of the 3 hoyo games ive played and spent money on
Ok, but do you know who will never be replaced? Vera. 🐶
Wherever I stand.
Honestly there are so many things that Hoyo can do that aren't related to character power creep that all of this really doesn't matter at the end of the day. The specific buffs we get in end game content are so huge that most of the time playing to the strength of the buff rather than based on who is the strongest character is preferrable. Pure Fiction is a perfect example of that. It's basically a character check, usually for the character who is currently on banner. If you don't have them it will be much harder for you no matter what. So far that hasn't stopped me from getting all the stars in both MoC and PF since 1.2 but it could happen one day. Also yes you are overstating the powercreep, keep in mind we were relying on a lot of standard banner units until recently and it's only natural that Hoyo wants to make them sub-optimal if not unusable. Meanwhile Seele is our first limited unit and she's still consistently rated above the majority of DPS including many who released after her. Also hard disagree that Aventurine "slam dunks" Gepard. He is better overall but for sustain they are pretty similar, as in they both can sustain perfectly in any content we have at the moment.
Bro the reason why all the LIMITED 5*s are "powercreep" is because
1. They are LIMITED 5*s and there's an expectation that they are better than standard 5*s or any 4*s.
2. They are making niches that were previously unfilled (by other limited 5*s) thereby Setting the Standard for what these units should be able to do because there was literally not a standard for what it should even be yet.
People were saying the same type of shit when Genshin was in 1.x because THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
> Venti set the standard for CC and is still arguably the best in that niche
> Klee was really OP at the time because of a pre-nerf Xingqiu
> Childe set the standard for 5* hydros and made the meta, showing how high hydro application makes teams around itself (arguably still is depending on your opinion on neuvillette and the international team)
> Zhongli (needed the buff but) basically makes you invincible with otherwise shit gear, and he is still the best shielder and decent as a debuffer
> Albedo
> "Ganyu does as much damage as an entire Diluc Combo with one charge shot!!!"
> Xiao set the standard for Anemo carry and is good at consolidating damage and can make use of otherwise useless VV relics (atk goblet, sands) and is still arguably the best Anemo carry
> ... why did keqing have a banner?
> Hu Tao needs no introduction, every new pyro dps is compared against her
> Eula uh set the standard for phys dps and still is the best phys dps... even if she has downsides
> Kazuha is still one of the best supports in the game, and people argue that he powercrept Venti in CC and anemo support
Then to get to the current patch equivalent in hsr
> Ayayaka set the standard for cryo dps
> Yoimiya set the standard for auto-attack low-skill hypercarry
> Raiden CHANGED EVERYTHING because of energy and set the standard for onfield electro carry (Rational team comp made it into memes
> Kokomi was honestly underhyped because she's a good healer who did decent damage
Even your examples of "Direct Powercreep" aren't really direct powercreep. JY is less damage in some ways than Acheron, but he uses supports that Acheron doesn't use. Huehue is better damage which I can understand as being powercreep for Luocha, but Luocha has more healing and more easily accessible healing off their turn, meaning he finds it easier to run more speed and be more SP positive while being able to run the Penacony set for an Imaginary carry. Even Fu Xuan who can solo sustain while providing a buff and protecting more against 1 shots and crowd control than the other sustains isn't as good as some other units for dot comps. Everyone is powercreeping JY because of how underwhelming he is.
I think the most direct powercreep is probably Jingliu over Blade. Blade does so much less damage than Jingliu in the blast damage, low SP cost, hp drain niche, both of them want Luocha to counteract HP drain, and both of them want Bronya to make use of extra SP, dmg% buff, and action advance. They basically want the same teams but Jingliu is just better.
Once we get a base of limited 5*s to get an idea of the general power level, we can "powercreep" from there. If you're genshin, you basically don't powercreep again until 4.X patch. Of course, I have my eyes out for what's going to happen with Robin and Boothill, but even then they are creating a niche that limited 5* units haven't yet. FUA focused buffer, Dedicated Break/Phys dps are new unit types.
I aint reading allat
i cant belive peaople had problems with beating aventerine boss, the one hardest for me was miss gigantic boobs (phantillia) which makes sense becase all you can do is rub her boobs still she sleeps i mean cmon' your too small to do danmage she just pretends to take damage so tickle her boobs.
I don't understand all this crying about power creep.
Every time a quantum weakness shows up i insta use QQ or Xueyi, for the simple reason that i like them and i don't have any other quantum dps, and even without Silver Wolf i still can clear 36* every single time.
Now, i understand that there's shit ton of stronger characters now. In fact, i will probably just use firefly on an quantum weakness floor when i'm not feeling playing QQ or Xueyi, most likely because it's going to be faster. But even if i didn't had Firefly that doesn't mean i wouldn't be able to clear those stages with 3* anymore because "The older characters feel off".
If MOC and Purefiction can still be cleared using 4 Stars and 5 Stars standard banner then there is no power creep. But then again, there is no power creep in a pve single player game.
Because the new dps can clear end game content faster than the previous one is not count as a power creep, because you get the same amount of rewards. If zero turn MOC give you 1800 jade and need you to use the new character but more than one turn give you 100 jade, then yes that is a power creep and I will delete the game my self if that's happen. As for now enjoy the character that you like.
For a new player or other player, don't listen to all those content creator. I understand they need to make content, and they will always hype up the new character no mater what saying this is the new meta, the best dps support etc.
Waifu/Husbando before Meta!
There was definitely an upscale in power creep with the Acheron release, as the current MoC version is a lot more difficult to anything we've had in the past. However, this still mostly applies to MoC 12, which is by no means mandatory to clear in order to enjoy the game. Pure Fiction is for all we know still unchanged, and we're going to get a new Simulated Universe game mode that by the sound of it, will cater more to casuals as well, as well as a new end game game mode which will be more aimed at hardcore players.
I agree with your general concern of power creep, but power creep is inevitable. I however don't agree with you that power creep has been that bad, because other games suffer way more from power creep especially if there's a PvP aspect to it as well. The early Star Rail experience was actually quite difficult. It took several months for non-whales to get their account up to speed. I started during the Luocha banner and I wasn't able to consistently clear both sides of MoC until well after 4 months or so of playing, and to many veterans, the end game is in many ways actually too easy. I could auto MoC and still clear it within 10 cycles no problem, but you can hardly call it content when players clear it within 10-20 min of game time to then just wait 2 weeks to get new content to do the same thing with. I wouldn't even consider myself a very sweaty player. I buy the monthly pass and the battle pass, I only splurged once during the DHIL banner because I really liked the character, and while I could at least in the past MoC try hard and 0 cycle, I couldn't care that much about it, honestly, because the only reward I get is to say I did it, and yeah, I've done it so now I go back to my 2-3 cycle clears.
Yes, it is frustrating when the game becomes more difficult and you don't get to choose your difficulty, and while it can feel like a punishment that you can no longer 3* the entirety of the MoC like you could before without significant effort, your solution is always presented to you, which is to pull on a new character banner. It eventually boils down to why you play this game. Some people just like collecting characters and that's just as fair as it is for those who like to engage with the end game.
With that said, other games have solved power creep of old units with awakening style approaches, and I'm sure we'll see something similar for Star Rail down the line. It's not healthy for the game to release too many new characters because it leads to very frustrating experiences for the players, and that's pretty easy to fix by letting old characters power up. There's already a mechanic to let players swap between different character variations, so clearly that's something the devs have already thought about.
I honestly don't understand the discussion about power creep, is a single player game, the only thing you get from hard content is SOME jades, and honestly I saw ppl clearing that content you only 4* at e0, the whole power creep thing is exaggerated and only induses fomo
Fully agreed, you get a like from me. This was one of the defining reasons why I quit HSR
Fun over meta, so unbothered atm
i dont think Acheron will ever be replaced
I made it to the end xD Just listening while walking home from work lol.
I'm not a exacly a hardcore player, sure I enjoy the game and try to beat the current game content, but I have noticed the power creep.
Some bosses are near impossible to beat in my opinion unless you have the newer characters, simply because they are designed to be beat by certain characters. A little frustrating.
Me and some friends was just yesterday talking about how Loucha will soon with this progress be benched because while his healing is strong, he cant out heal when characters are one hit on max hp.
Some powercreep is good I think, but the speed hsr is going at is surprising.
Anyways, enjoyed your video!
I didn't know what to think about powercreep until recently where I changed my mind 2 times
For the info, I have E1S1 JY, E2S1 Dhil, E0S1 Seele, E1S1 Acheron as my dps and all of them are at 80/190 cr/cd
Firstly, I thought that powercreep was massive when I pulled for Acheron
Then, I tried my Seele and Jingyuan in my Dhil hypercarry (Ruan Mei/Sparkle/Tingyun), and what a surprise, JY was okk at best but Seele was hitting so hard, she isn't clearing as fast as my E2 Dhil, but she isn't that far behind him and my Acheron
I was still able to 0 cycle with Seele so imo powercreep is not an issue for the moment (after 1 year)
Also, standard character being powercrept isn't an issue either (you didn't mentionned it but many cc are talking about that)
Generally speaking in hsr power creep is a thing but should never matter because I beileve the only reason it should actually effect gameplay is when it's pvp because pve is just you against Ai let's go with Arlan for example he's able to clear the hardest content in the game but of course this means you need more investment now you may not agree with me but I Feel like if the game doesn't go to a way where you need so much just to take down an Enemy I feel like Seele can be somewhat timeless it just depends its because Resurgence is such a strong Abillity and this doesn't mean that the dmg seele can do now is gonna stay like that forever as time goes on better and more broken supports will release that are better than another but that doesn't mean seele will only be buffed everyone else will but because of that it gives the possibility for older characters to shine with those new broken supports feel free to disagree no hate please
I feel like you should have gone more detail in the plight of the launch 4 stars and how for the most part the gulf between them and the launch 5 star roster was reasonably wide but a year later it's hard to even compare them with the more "modern" limited 5 stars. I remember when there were people praising Serval to the high heavens as the F2P savior unit and to not pull for Jingyuan because she was "close enough" in terms of damage but now we have Kafka paired with Black Swan, we have Acheron, hell we even have souped up supports and relic sets for Jingyuan that widen the gulf between Serval and these five star powerhouses.
Seriously though, how are units like Hook, Arlan and even old favorites like Sushang supposed to compete with some of these limited 5 star units? Obviously the new units ought to be stronger but should they be upwards of 500% stronger (Arlan -> Acheron and that's generous)?
The only reason why I got Kafka and Black Swan is because they were hot and I wanted them based on design, gameplay and kit came second for me and now they’re my favorite type of gameplay for me seeing enemies take cancer every turn is honestly fucking funny, and now both of them are meta. I don’t really think powercreep is a issue that needs to be addressed since you can still clear content with 1.x characters albeit at a much higher investment than 2.x characters. Just that players will always play with their favorites even if they do get powercrept
such a nice video and point of view, also preatty good info, nice content keep it up
I don't see any problem over A char creeping B char as far as the B char keeps being good with help of the newer support units and sets and that it can perform *COMPETITIVELY* cycles wise, competitively meaning I can clear the content in similar cycle counts or better if I put more effort than the person with the newer objectively stronger unit. I own Jing and Acheron on diff accs and in my specific limited view she doesn't do MoC way faster, she does a lot of other things better than him and is better in the general sense of the word, but not much better or to the point I can't just skip her on my first acc and perform extremely well in cycles anyways thanks to my sparkle, and I get to contrast and compare so I don't have to buy anyone's fabricated opinion I can see it in action and make conclusions myself of if the creep matters to me after testing it.
In fact, in the Aventurine boss fight they perform about the same at least for now at 4 cycles each, until the time my acheron becomes stronger with stronger nihility companions with more investment vs my day 1 jing yuan edition with excellent investment, fua set and Sparkle. Same thing with Yanqing, I haven't used him in ages, I used to HATE him, I pull up aventurine and 4 cycle boss aventurine at the same speed as my Jing or Acheron with a crappy cruising in the stellar sea and spare relics i had lying around but do it faster than my friends with Jingliu E0S1 at 5 cycles because the boss fight is poorly designed and in general bad for her and she has nice investment and my friend has worked longer on her, showing me as far as the char is not way worse acheron or jingliu can be objectively superior upgrades but if I don't feel like it I won't pull them and that's that, and I have peace of mind I own them in another account, put effort into them to carry me and they're not always better than the other chars so the creep is not affecting my older chars as far as I plan my pulls and set my priorities straight.
The only issue is yeah, if I don't pull the supports then I am left in a bad spot, but I am fine with the way things are as of now.
Powercreep will never matter unless mihoyo took into consideration the new norm and raised the bar of difficulty for endgame content, which would progressively ruin the game.
For powercreep to matter the difference in viability between a character has to be so insanely immense it's an active discouragement to use one over pulling for the other, I think gepard lovers will still forever love gepard even if adventurine just outclasses him.
In terms of the powercreep itself however, I'm fairly certain mihoyo (at least in genshin) avoids major powercreep by releasing synergistic kits in the future, alongside things like having cooperative based damage ceilings (most of the time) and a linear (arguably stale) "endgame".
Specifically referring to the dedicated support line (the bows: goroou, faruzan, kujou sara). They have general buffs that CAN be applied to a wide variety, however they also serve niches that excel with particular characters. So having a gorou, kujou sara, or faruzan isn't a COMPLETE loss even if you dont have their intended target of support.
Something like using a gorou on ningguang works (let's pretend in an AU she "powercreeps" itto) and buffs her, but her gap between itto is closed signficantly because of the defense buffs on gorou. Something like that.
Subbed 🔥 Interesting take on HSR powercreep
Yeah I can 101 % relate to that Statement about casuals. They play every day and get angry when they cant defeat anything. Genshin or Star Rail. I always get angry and want to say "if you dont read and care how the game works...and you want to play it without actually PLAYING it...why dont you just quit?" But I pause myself since comments like these wont change anything.
I just think its weird that we played harder games without to much issues when we were kids...and now people (even at an older age) struggle to beat the easiest content. But yeah...people became more stupid do to TikTok and other stuff... so it makes sense.
Also funny that my 2 most investet teams are Kafka, Blackswan, Guinaifen and HuoHuo and Topaz, Tingyun, Lynx and Clara. ❤ Love those playstiles.
Clara teams are genuinely so much fun.
I agree with you, but i have to say it isnt all that bad, one good thing is that i can use some of my favorate characters with these new powercreepers, like blackswan/sampo and yanqing/aventurine, you can latch onto their OPness. i thought about my characters being bad overtime but i realized that no matter what, as long as you win within a time limit, i dont care if my characters are powercrept because i cleared the hardest content in the game within 10 turns with a team that includes my favorite low tier character, and nobody can say i didnt.
Theyre gonna release more jingliu tier units and then units who are just on par or a tiny bit worse than acheron. I bet itll be that way for a loooong time. Content in general wont move in a direction where you need all these new units. This game is like genshin where they want people out there to still pull for characters like seele and topaz and jingliu
subbed for the vera pfp. nice content!
If you really like a certain character and you want for them to compete against newer character you could try to get their signature and eidolons everytime they have a rerun.
Acheron and Aventurine just came out, sooooo I dunno them aging so soon…plus if they do, I will have enough to summon by then again
u cant even clear some of the end game with blade (apolyptic shadow)
I mean its inevitable to have bench characters, My General will retire when I complete Blade and Sam/firefly team comps
I think 5* dmg dealers are still alright as long as their dmg is relevant. (except Himeko, she sucks in MOC. I regarded Yan Qing to be bad but with Adventurine release....) But, sustains are more obvious on the power creep like Huo Huo vs Bailu, Adventurine vs Gepard. Those 2 are even trashed by newer 4*. I'm always sadge when I rolled for any of the 2 trash in standard banner. Harmony is the most balanced role.
7:24 You probably meant to say 4*. And he is incredible breaker. On top of that, you can use him with her starting from E4 since her unique DoT is also a windsheer. Obviously, Kafka would be better ally for BS but using Sampo is also an option.
p.s.
I can already hear clicking of jinyuan main's keyboard trying to make a World Record of death threats on internet in one minute after watching this video.
The only way to solve Powercreep is to introduce a system where old characters can actually be used because new characters can be locked after each use (you have to build more characters sure, but rerun sales would actually mean something)
At least HSR did something about it with Swarm Disaster, Gold and Gears, Pure Fiction..
While yes the first two doesn't do much, but PF does a lot to bring back older unit like Himeko, Herta, Serval, Asta, Clara, Argenti (new but no place before)
Locking characters sounds insanely gross. Anyways yeah hsr already enabled differing characters. Pure fiction needing high aoe attacks.
Even swarm gepards shield is wont get you one shot unlike fu xuan.
The only real problem is hunt in any hunt units they seem to never top tier. With moc Sam Death and now Aventurine. Hunt was mid doable but dot destruction mostly dan heng il and now one of the worst bosses for hunt.
Im not saying hunts weak but hunts never the best. To which depending on your account is pretty sad
@@thefearturkey6944 They release new mode which is like boss rush for Hunt in 2.3
@@craycoco7747 it’s a break game mode… they also didn’t strictly lock units… they made an existing archetype more useable but that doesn’t remove the problem of power creep since the best of that archetype will still be the ones balanced around in the future until hp numbers increase to the point where older units with worse scaling can’t perform… a unit like that is Blade and it shows since he is nearly unused across all game modes due to his inherently terrible multipliers and a hp increase to enemies
Me with my all the nilility units what's power creep.
It's no different from Genshin which is often *praised* for how it handles powercreep. Even down the patches characters released, it's so similar: a meta defining dps (Jingliu, Hu Tao) around 1.4, a meta defining support (Ruan Mei, Kazuha) around 1.6, Mei expy which everyone batchests as the strongest dps in the game and encourages people to pull for c2/e2 around 2.1. At this rate we'll get hyperbloom in 3.x to help new hsr players clear endgame without 2 years of resin investment. So I'm kinda :shrug: Time will tell.
I really thing this powercreep is concerning, what would be the next best dps in a year or so? I'm 100% sure isnt gonna be DHIL, Jingliu nor even Acheron. That's why is concerning, there is no future proof in any dps
I hope they take the genshin impact route when it comes to power creep
>most if not all gachas will never directly buffa after their release
*Laugh in FGO strengthening quest/interludes*
2:18 “Yes, being f2p technically exists…but for the vast majority of players, they are going to spend some amount of money…”
Is there data to support this? Polls, sales data, anything concrete we can point to? Or is this just speculation? I’ve been wondering about this. What % of players do we think remain f2p throughout their experience versus how many spend money? And what’s the breakdown on within those who spend money, what’s the distribution on whales, dolphins, light spenders?
wait i always heard MOST players in these kinds games DONT spend money or spend very LITTLE money, and only a few mirroring the few elites on this planet spend 1000s bucks like it's water.
So it's mostly a problem because it set a bad precedent for the future.
But to be fair this level of Powercreep is typically normal for Gacha and in many cases so is directly buffing older units
Genshin is more so the outlier same In its measure for avoiding Powercreep and 1 form of Endgame which allows it to be played as a standard game
While the argument is "Well I can still beat floor 12 with Seele" the scale in which enimeies are forced to meet character creep is intense
Ask yourself in a year when 50% of the roster is made obsolete and you feel pressured to keep up is it still fine
We have roles that already overlap making the Category System (Nihility Harmony ECT) pointless
All of this is basically built on whether Gacha was something you were introduced to by Genshin or Not
A lot of new people don't get how messed up Gacha games get and take for granted how slow Genshin was
In most Gacha 4 stars have zero value outside early game but in Genshin they have value almost always
Is Powercreep in HSR Bad to the regular standards of Gacha No but Genshin has skewered people perception into thinking these games are fair about how they make content
It why to a lot of people free currency and rewards dont mean shit but to the gacha brain there everything
It why in th long term it will get Honkai 3rd levels of absurds
To those who feel depressed about this the pull economy will lessen the blow and youll get more currency overtime
But the amount of effort to make older units viable will reduce and unless your a day one player you wont be able to keep up
You should make more vids, you are pretty funny
Firefly Gallagher Ruan Mei and HMC will be the first and last team I will actually build to the max , I'm a sim universe nerd and that is pretty much a different game I am happy with 6-8 star PF well until I get more characters and 30 stars on MoC
The real big issue is clickbates like seele is broken or this character is really good, if you are enjoying the game that's it.I want jinglu i go for her i want seele i go for her.
yes thats natural, everyone will be powercrept at some point, but they keep on buffing the old one too which is why i still play with some characters. as f2p im not geting many new and thats fine. im curious how they will top acheron one day. she is puting the level a little bit too high
The first part is understandable, and I’m not worried. It’s the second part of “how tf are they going to make someone better then Acheron” that makes me concerned.
@@kaxdra simple put the nuke into the skill and add a new nuke on the burst, or give the burst some buffs too, to make the skill/team deal more damage, idk, the day acheron will be powercrept is the day everyone will cry
@@dekunny9225 who would have guessed, that this day will come that soon..
@@notearatusmorpheus3525 ok I'm out of the HSR bubble for like a month
Did they already powercrept acheron? Please say it's a joke.
@@dekunny9225Firefly outperforms her, but not by a significant margin at E0S0 and E0S1, and E2 Firefly is out of this world, the only point where Acheron outperforms Firefly is E6, but meh, who cares.. But again, its not like Acheron is just dead in a ditch, more like they both are gonna be dps standarts
WOOOOO NEW VIDEO WOOOO
No… powercreep is just inherently bad… it’s a gacha game, if powercreep is getting discussed rampantly within such a community, it’s not a good sign… this seems like copium or just a luxury perspective to say that it’s ok…
No powercreep at all is STAGNATION !
12:14 lmao I was scrolling through the comments just to see that people did exactly that🤣🤣🤣
I mean, the only problem is the hp of enemies in MoC, we went from fighting a 1.6M hp sam to fighting a 2.0M hp Aventurine in half an update, that's 400k hp
Still Sam is way more difficult to fight than Aventurine, but it's a big jump
Still people still do 0 cycles with seele and other older characters, you just need to optimize builds which takes a lot of rng which sucks to most people
I've accepted that for the effort I'm willing to give to this game I'm only going to hit MoC 10 at maximum, which I'm ok with
Powercreep is a problem i agree but your favorit is still able to clear
Tbh I find it so funny when those kinds of metaslaves whine about a certain character not being "useful" anymore. Like yes they may not be the best at their job anymore but they are still completely viable to use and clear most content.
New character's just makes the game easier and less threatening specially that stupid adventurine boss fight it'll definitely matter when PvP comes
good luck powercreeping acheron as time progresses with certain releases she will get stronger hell ill take another archeron type character moc ez mode
I’m still using my Jing Yuan ❤
with leak of Robin, she seems to be better than Ruan Mei on both follow up team and dual dps team. The only team Ruan Mei have over Robin is break team. If you don't believe me just look up the video on RUclips. It's unfathomable for me how a couple months ago during Ruan Mei release, she was the best Harmony support the game has ever seen and now she's getting the Fu Xuan treatment (with aventurine release)
Dot exists. Anyways. Depends on how consistently you can achieve her ult on its rotation excluding a follow up comp.
@@thefearturkey6944 umm dot was also fast with Robin
Even at this point teams made purely of 4 stars can clear MoC with maximumstars. So the powercreep is not nearly as bas as you make it out to be.
6:03 surely *looks at genshin 1.0 characters*
great content well worded
7:29 sampo's advantage is being a 5 star xd
Yeah your character will always get power crept by future characters to keep the game fresh and keep sales up. But right now all the content is doable with old charecters. Selle is still very good with day one charecters like bronya or tinyung and I’d say maybe fuxuan/aventurine are the only charecters close to a must pick. Even herta a charecter that the game will give you for free is meta in certain content. Aslong as content is doable with old charecters then power creep is fine.