A Response to Mike Winger Regarding God’s Law - 119 Ministries
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2019
- Pastor Mike Winger released a video on RUclips ( • I've Been Looking Into... ) in which he featured a teaching from 119 Ministries. He took the time to walk through several points of concern and/or disagreement with us in as loving a way as he could. Likewise, we are taking this opportunity to hopefully address and dispel the concerns that he has regarding 119 Ministries and God’s Laws. We pray that is received in the same spirit of love, kindness, and respect.
Editor's Note: At approximately 14:41-15:03 - we mistakenly cite a Scripture as Acts 20:26, it's actually Acts 20:16
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Shalom
I don't obey the Law to be saved, I obey the Law because I am saved. One reason God gave Israel the law was so that other nations would see a great and righteous people and that God would be glorified, Deu 4. Remember it is written, We are to be holy as He is holy.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 If it's true that nobody has obeyed the law of Moses since the first generation then you make a good case for why this world is in such shambles.
"remember..." "remember..." "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." How hard is it to call to memory or to memorialize something important to our king? Just like he said to remember his supper.
*Remember* the Sabbath day - _"for 6 days Christ made the heavens and the earth and rested on the 7th, so memorialize what Christ did by following him and resting too."_ Scripture clearly says it is Christ through whom God created the worlds. I thought we are commanded to follow Christ?
Keep it [the Sabbath day] *holy* - _'Set apart; Sanctified; Righteous; Doing the work of God as His priests like Christ was/is."_ Christ did God's work on the Sabbath as a priest, never once doing this work in the Temple building. I thought we are commanded to follow Christ?
" *God* won't allow anyone to keep God's law until the *Antichrist* comes"?? Sounds backward, like the subjects should be swapped in this statement.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 scriptural reference please, particularly regarding the temple being required for keeping sabbath? The children of Israel were given the law before there was a temple and lived 40 years in the wilderness with it.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 It's easy to get lost down rabbit trails when discussing scripture, so just for reference let me repeat the point in dispute:
You said, "God made it *impossible* to obey the law of Moses when the *Temple* was destroyed". This is to suggest that "obedience to the Law of Moses *hinges upon* the existence of the physical temple". That was your point.
However, in your latest reply, you correctly point out that _"scripture commands all men to appear before the Lord _*_in the place he shall choose_*_ ."_ In other words, in your second paragraph, you disprove your original point, proving instead that obedience to the law of Moses, in fact, *does not* hinge upon the existence of the physical temple, but upon God's *specific choice* .
You then reinforce this, saying, _"The place the Lord _*_chose_*_ was wherever the Arc was that year because _*_that’s where the Lord dwelt...placed his name_*_ "_ Amen, Amen. God can choose *wherever* he wills us to keep his Law. First, it was the rolling tabernacle...then it was the shabby dwelling off of David's Palace...then in Jerusalem, it was Solomon's temple...then it was Zerubbabel's temple (which became Herod's temple)................Then it was The Messiah...
_"Beware of [angel of the lord], and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: _*_for my name is in him_*_ ."_ - Exodus 23:21
_"But I say to you that a greater than the _*_temple_*_ is here."_ - Matthew 12:6
_"destroy this _*_temple_*_ and in three days I will raise it again"_ - John 2:19
...then the place God chose became The Messiah's Body...
_"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them _*_in the name_*_ of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"_ - Matthew 28:19
_"do you not know _*_your body is the temple_*_ of the holy spirit who is in you, _*_you are not your own_*_ "_ - 1 Corinthians 6:19
_"The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. _*_Upon him I will write the name_*_ of My God, and _*_the name of the city_*_ of My God (THE NEW JERUSALEM that comes down out of heaven from My God), and _*_My new name_*_ ."_ - Revelation 3:12
_"This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put _*_My Laws_*_ in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds."_ - Hebrews 10:16 quoting Jeremiah 31:31
_"As you come to Him, _*_the living stone_*_ , rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight, you also, like _*_living stones_*_ , are being _*_built into a spiritual house_*_ to be a holy priesthood, _*_offering spiritual sacrifices_*_ ACCEPTABLE to God through Jesus Christ."_ - 1 Peter 2:4-5
- A Temple
- Sacrifices
- God's Law (the law of Moses)
----
So I say God in his infinite wisdom has indeed made it possible to keep the law of Moses, His Law, without Herod's temple at Jerusalem because he HAS a temple here...unless you're suggesting no "body of Christ" exists on earth right now and that the scriptures above - as well as "the church" itself - are complete lies?
Of course not. We know the body of Christ DOES exist - God's earthly temple - so it follows that there's absolutely no excuse not to obey the Law of Moses including the Sabbath, see what I mean? There's no distance one needs to travel to get to God's temple. All a believer has to do is look in the mirror.
@@biblehistoryscience3530
Saying we need a physical temple to obey the law of Moses when Christ has already come as a stone in the new temple is the definition of mixing old and new.
There's a difference between a law and a covenant, AND between the covenant at Mt. Sinai and the covenant with the messiah.
*"Old" Covenant*
The so called "old" covenant is *not* the law. It was a blood agreement made between God and Israel where *IFF* Israel obeys, God would make Israel a nation of priests to the world, his treasure above all nations. And if they disobeyed (i.e. "broke it" or "violated it") they would be punished to be the tail of the world and be enslaved. That's the covenant. And *every single time* they disobeyed they were indeed punished with slavery and poverty.
The thing Israel was given to obey; the terms of the agreement was God's Law. The same law we're told Abraham obeyed faithfully. The same law Christ came to clarify over the oppressive traditions of the pharisees.
This covenant was ratified with blood, it has a sign confirming it (The Sabbath) and is described as an *everlasting covenant* throughout Israel's generations (the scriptures use the Hebrew word translated as "perpetual" which has the same meaning as everlasting). This covenant was made with those alive at the mountain as well as those descendants who weren't alive yet, proving it is everlasting. In fact, it's still in effect today.
*New Covenant*
The New Covenant is *not* a replacement of the so called old covenant but is a covenant that completes or "gives an answer" to the flaw found in the Mt. Sinai covenant, namely human weakness in obeying God. The new covenant is ONLY promised to Israel & Judah. I repeat. The new covenant is ONLY promised to Israel & Judah.
One promise was *to write God's Law on the hearts of the two houses* to compel them; motivate them to WANT to obey God's law (Jeremiah 31:31-33). Another promise was total forgiveness of sins of Israel & Judah. These are better promises because once Israel & Judah are justified and have the *DESIRE* to obey (the same desire for obedience that Christ had/has to please God) they'll stop breaking the sinai covenant and can keep the promises offered through *that* covenant forever.
Nowhere in the OT or NT will you find the *new* covenant promising to make *anyone* a nation of priestly kings. Nowhere. That promise is EXCLUSIVELY given through the covenant at Mt. Sinai. The so called "old" covenant is the *only one* that promises national priestly kingship. So Israel & Judah need the new covenant to help them finally comply with the sinai covenant.
The new covenant is ratified with blood, the sign of its confirmation is the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it's also an everlasting covenant (like ALL covenants God makes with man). Its requirement is faith in Christ's heavenly work (since we can't see him with our eyes ministering in the temple).
Paul explains that just like human covenants are not revoked God covenants aren't either.
----
So in order for a gentile to participate in the promises offered to *Israel & Judah* they have to be adopted into one of the houses; grafted into the root of the tree. I.e. they have to join themselves with Israel through Christ. And the only way for a gentile to become a priestly-king is to obey the law of Moses, as those were the terms of the sinai covenant. And if a gentile claims to have the Holy Spirit as part of the new covenant then they will have a compunction, an urge, the motivation of an obedient son to obey God's commandments as *strongly* as Christ had because that's literally the promise the new covenant offers.
Christ says "whoever teaches others to break the least of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom. And they that teach and do the commandments will be called great in the kingdom."
So today is when we determine whether we will be great or least in that kingdom, not later on in some future if a temple is built.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 could've sworn I did a few times. But if you'd like to number the points of your argument I'll address them number by number
How can you tell a wheat from a tare? A sheep from a goat? The good fish from the bad fish? The foolish virgins from the wise virgins? How to recognize a wolf? LAWLESSNESS AKA TORAHLESSNESS.
I absolutely love how clear and concise you articulate your arguments. I can see why YHWH chose you for this type of work. Praise be to. YHWH!!
119 Ministries, I have been following the teaching and also test everything as well. May God always fill your ministry with Holy Spirit
This is so respectful. You are truly showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit here, despite some of Pastor Mike's inflammatory or even accusatory undertones.
I took your challenge to test everything and read through the whole bible discarding all the doctrinal biases I had picked up to see if the Torah was still applicable or not. After spending a year in the Word...I keep the Torah, because I found no clear scripture to support the abolition of the Torah, but many that affirmed it. My life hasn't appreciably changed since that time. Keeping some new holidays, abandoning some old ones, and a slight dietary change haven't exactly shaken the foundations of my life. They're not the burden I was lead to believe they were.
Just be careful not to keep going that little bit further, until.....
@@AliceSusanHarding until.... what exactly?
@@TiffanyRiehm Colossians 2: 8-22 8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
Amén!
@@AliceSusanHarding sorry but you took that completely out of context.
This is how Brothers and sisters in Christ are supposed to come together to work things out.
Actually 119 Ministries are sell outs. Read the comment I posted and you will see why.
I don't often comment but I felt inclined to voice my opinion in regard to the response by 119Ministries.
WELL DONE.
Respectful, Gentle, Loving, Humble.
These are the character of your delivery. All while you are prepared to be wrong before the Lord one day while continually studying and praying, this response is EXACTLY how we as believers should ALWAYS engage with our fellow brothers ans sisters in Yeshua!
Bar none.
I look forward to seeing if he will respond in kind to your excellent peace offering.
Keep up the work ;)
Only some will get that haha
I’ve been a believer for only four years, and I definitely felt as if something was not quite accurate. Your channel and teachings have brought the Bible alive for me and made sense of so many of my questions. So grateful for this ministry! I love the Pauline paradox - very educational.
Thank you 119 for publicly offering sane, sound, sensible and above all, scripturally valid arguments in response to not only Mike Winger, but thousands of God-fearing Christians, who share the same concerns as he does. If we are honest, some of these issues can be tricky, and many of us have been baffled before gaining rightful discernment through sound teaching and through the power of The Holy Spirit. When 2 parties (minus aggression and not driven by egotistical pride) honestly contend for 'Truth' - iron sharpening iron can be very profitable.
Thanks 119 for another calm and scripturally backed up teaching that is clear to all. You are so very much appreciated! Praise Yah for the revelation! Let’s all pray for Pastor Mike (and His followers) for his eyes to see, his ears to hear and his heart to understand the Truth in all its fullness! Let’s stand together and pray for people to be walking in the freedom of Torah! HalleluYah! 🌷
“The Law” existed way before Moses. Genesis mentions that Abraham kept Gods Laws, statutes and commandments. Noah also had knowledge of Gods Law because he knew about the Sacrificial System & the clean/unclean meats.
The Jews called it the “Law of Moses” because he delivered it to the Jews on behalf of God. That’s why Moses is called a prophet. A prophet is one who speaks on behalf of someone else.
Really it’s the Law of God. (Ezra 7:6, Deuteronomy 6:1)
Amen and amen 💯♥️📖
@Read Your Bible keep reading on and see that Jeremiah (who the author of Hebrew is quoting), firstly says that the "new covenant" is for Israel and Judah. Not the "church". Secondly, look at what the purpose of the new covenant is for,
Jeremiah 31:32-33 NASBS
not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. [33] "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
God plainly states that He will put the Torah (or law) within them. Isn't that what the Holy Spirit did at pentecost?? Isn't that what evangelical Christianity teaches?
It was power from God Himself to get us to follow the commandments given by God to Moses! That's the only law we have from God.
@Read Your Bible as far as no on has obeyed it, that's just wrong. More than a few people have been called upright by God Himself. Zechariah the priest comes to mind among others.
See the law doesn't demand perfection, why do you think there are instructions for how to perform sin offerings? God doesn't expect people to follow it perfectly to the tee.
What your talking about is salvation. Salvation never came through the law, it was always through faith. Salvation is not it's purpose. It's purpose is to separate us (God's people) unto God.
It is true that no one on earth for the last 2500 years has been able to keep God's laws to the tee, but that doesn't mean that the desire to do so isn't there. Neither does that mean that we should abandon it. What do you think will be the rule of law when the Messiah comes back to reign?
When Hebrew roots meets Christian perspective peacefully this is what it looks like. HalleluYah
One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
You'd think someone with a degree in theology would know this.
Sin is the transgression of YHVH's Law. 1 John 3:4 says "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Since sin is the transgression of YHVH's Law, if YHVH's Laws are done away with, there would be no sin. If there is no sin, there is no need to have our sins forgiven. If there is no sin, we don't need Yahshua's blood to wash our sins away. If we don't need Yahshua's shed blood, there would be no reason for him to die for us, because we wouldn't need a Savior to save us from our sins.
And if there is no sin, Yahshua's claim that His blood was shed for the remission of our sins (Matthew 26:28) could not be true.
That would make Him a bold-faced liar, and the entire New Testament falls apart.
In agreement, Facts
I watched Winger’s presentation and this response when they were current. Loved your approach then, love it even more now. Thanks for what you do. I never cease to be amazed that so many who claim to be believers insist that “we” (the Church) are not Israel, so we are not bound by Israel’s rules. The entire Bible is the story of YHVH loving and redeeming Israel. Ephesians 2:12-13 is one of the many passages that make this point without question, but most Christians stop reading that chapter after verse 9. I did the same for too many years, but I have repented.
Not only are the explanations excellent, but the respectful and gentle engagement here is something I believe brings The Most High great joy! Please continue this ministry and important work! Shalom!
I love it... best example of exegesis vs traditions of evangelical theology
Amen
right on.
Thats a beautiful response brother Jon i pray YaH keeps blessing you by shinning His face upon you !!
We must remember back when we could not see this truth also until Abba opened our eyes and revealed this to us halleluYaH
proverbs 28:9
Once the understanding of the words - righteousness , The Word , truth , faith , the commandments and obedience are revealed to you the Word reads as one flowing book of love to you and it allows us to love our Father the Way He always desired us too...
The Torah is the greatest blessing because its our coming KIng in the flesh HalleluYaH
As we enter a new year with our Father, I am in awe of the wonderful work we are seeing unfold by His Spirit calling to all who are seeking to draw closer to Him in these days.
I watch my share of videos and 119 ministries has been a real blessing to me. I don't often comment on videos but I must on this one because I'm feeling strongly led to. I struggled and when I say struggled I mean not sleeping, fasting and praying in anguish wrestle with the angel struggle for months about if and how the law and the Torah applies to the modern day believer. Well, God was faithful (of course) and by His Spirit led me to increasing understanding of His Truth. It was the Pauline Paradox that was the final blow to my shackles to the long held lies that kept me bound to the modern day system of Christianity and by extension, pagan Rome. I will always remember the day YAH set me free and He used 119 ministries to apportion the truth of His scriptures to do so. Thank you very much for your faithfulness and your love for YAH and the bretheren. You are fine examples of who a follower of Christ should act and speak. Added blessings to you all...
Francis Motta right on, it’s amazing but slowly over the last few years the same thing has been happening to me. Now it’s so easy to see the deception from what we’ve come out of, even though we are still learning. There are many that are coming around to the reality of what was really taught and said. We need to keep praying and fasting and ministries like this, that the main stream stuff we going to be the cans because they just don’t see it yet. But many eyes are being opened these days
Sorry about the end of that, the talk text gets confused at times. Ha ha
I absolutely love these types of videos, they help me explain my beliefs with scriptural backing. Apologetics is so important. Scripture is so clear and this way of believing is the only one I’ve ever not been able to disprove with apologetics. It makes the whole Bible true and applicable for us today! Thank you for this teaching! Please do more like it!
Very well done. I stand with 119 ministries. ❤️❤️
I think it’s really nice how 119 kept there godly composure during this video!
It takes a lot of maturity and discipline honey.
The Law identifies sin, if the Law has been done away with we have no need for a Messiah.
Read what you wrote out loud. Now think about it. Let it settle in... "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” Romans 10:4. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:17-18). If you take a look at the greek text and have an understanding of, not just the definition, the emotional meaning of the word, a very inherent quality in the written word back then, then you would see and feel the 'punctuation' of the phrase, "to fulfill". I can keep going but I impress upon you to keep your studies going. As shall I.
Peace.
@@jantinucci christ is the goal of the law. Telos g5056 means goal
Absolutely love you 119 and what God is doing through you.
It’s crazy how people don’t believe in the Torah but use it to preach to people or Catholics on not having images but then they say the 4 commandments (Shabbat)are not for us only for the Jews, so much contradiction but they don’t see it. Let’s pray for them. Shalom!
Indeed, I’m not sure about Catholicism, but in orthodox they call them “Icons”. Cause you know.. if you change the name it makes it ok. The scriptures are clear on images made from stone, wood, silver and gold.
Thank you 119 Ministries for sharing the Scriptures with love, respect, honor & clarity. The humility is captivating.
One keeps the Law because you are saved not to become saved. The universe is governed by laws.
That statement condemns you unless you really keep the "Law" whatever you mean by it I assume you must mean the Law of Moses. Every bit of it that applies to you. If you stumble even in one, you're guilty of breaking all of it. That's what James says. And you're not saved by your own words. That's a very dangerous and depressing theology. Good luck with it.
Bravo ! Well done 119 Ministries ! May YAH keep protecting and guiding you, your family and your ministry. Shalom
Hey, college christian kid here! You guys are making a great example of a loving discussion under christ. Though I personally align with mike, you guys have made a great example in terms of disagreement:) Very refreshing! Bless
I have a question for you. In the instance of Stephen being brought to the Pharisees, we learn two things. First we learn that he was concerned with the keeping of the law. Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and *have not kept it.*
Second, we learn that the Pharisees and Co. had to buy off witnesses: Act 6:13 And set up *FALSE* witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and *shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.*
Had that been the teaching of the believers, why would they need to set up (pay, "suborned" vs 11 ) liars to witness for them? I'll tell you why: Because anyone bearing a false witness receives the punishment they sought for the innocent, by the Torah. (Which is why those guys dropped their rocks when confronted with the woman caught in adultery).
I'll let you figure out how to make that mesh with what you believe.
Isaiah 2:3
Micah 4:2
The Torah can be summed up in one Word LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF
If you read verse 7 The Word is the Word from the beginning, which is the Torah and prophets hence Y’shua / Jesus is the Torah made flesh - Y’shua is the perfect spotless Passover lamb SINLESS AND WE CALLED TO FOLLOW HIM
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:1
Imitate me as I imitate Messiah
Y’shua didn’t come to change anything or preach Something new
John 7:16-19
16 ¶ Y’shua / Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Proverbs 4:2
I give you good doctrine don’t forsake My Torah
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Psalm 40:8
I delight to do Your will My God ( Elohim ) Your Torah is within my heart
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
Psalm 119:142
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness and Your Torah is the truth
19 Did not Moses give you the Torah / law, and yet none of you keepeth the Torah/law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Hebrews 3:18-19
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that disobeyed ?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Disobedience to the Torah is unbelief
Obedience is faith / belief
John 12:46-50
46 "I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Psalm 119:105
Your Word is a lamp to my feet and light the my path
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp,
And the Torah/law a light;
Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,
47 "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 14:23-24
23 ¶ Y’shua/Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Beforehand that we should walk in them by faith
Abraham was saved by faith
Genesis 26:5
"because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws-Torot."
The problem in Galatians with circumcision was with the judaizers going around preaching you must be circumcised in the manner of Moses or you can’t be saved ACTS 15:1 and this is a lie and a false doctrine, because we are saved by faith and true faith is obedience to Fathers commandments...
Hebrews 4:1-2
1 ¶ Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
I pray this blesses you as it has me 🙏🏾 shalom and blessings and I pray the grace of our king Y’shua be with your spirit
Jenna Caruthers
Any relation to merlin Caruthers
Brother Gary Israel.. why do you insert the word Torah into verses of scripture? What version of the bible has the word Torah in place of the word that's meant to be there?
Disappointed that instead of taking a conversational route, I’m seeing some of yall just posting lengthy comments of whats already been said in the original video and common scriptures used in the topic of the levitical laws application today.
I find it interesting that evangelical pastors teach that the law isn't in effect, but require a tithe, and follow the ten commandments, but not the fourth commandment. Excellent video, thank you.
Its easier to ignore the law and explain it away with nonsense.
"And he will seek to change times and laws..."
@@jeezymay sabbath to 1st day, from sunset to sunset to midnight to midnight, passover, unleavened bread, first fruits pentacost trumpets atonement, tabernacle to christmas, easter, lent
Did you watch Mike's video? He actually was asked about tithing and said he does not believe it is required.
It’s amazing and sad to see how the body can differ so much. The pastor said he doesn’t see how anyone can read the Bible and keep Torah. ...
How can anyone read the Bible and NOT keep Torah???🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
At the end of the day.....
Shouldn’t we all act like Messiah in every shape form and fashion????
Our Messiah wore Tzitzit, kept Shabbat, and ate clean.
It is so simple. ....
To add to eating clean. Modern medical science has proven Gods word concerning unclean meats to be 100% accurate.
Fifth Horseman yeah St Peter thought that too!? Until God put him straight.
Clean for ceremony/ Sacrifice!
How about everyone that’s ever lived.
No one has kept The Law!
Jesus magnified The Law!
The Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery
Did He judge her according to The Law?
No!
Because she would have been stoned!
To death!
He Forgave her! Mercy and Grace!
The woman at the well He met her Alone!
The leper He Touched!
He healed on The Sabbath!
He told the paralysed man pick up your bed and walk!
He made clay and healed the blind man!
He ate and drank with sinners!
Jesus said
Love God
Love people, spouse, neighbours, enemies!
1 Corinthians 13....
P Harrison sinner saved by His Mercy and Grace! You mean no one has ever kept the Law or aTorah except.....Messiah. The one you are supposed to be patterning your life after....
P Harrison sinner saved by His Mercy and Grace! 🙄
I can’t give sight to the blind or open deaf ears. Only Adonai can do that.
You would do better to emulate Messiah in every shape, form, and fashion.
Biblically sound explanations and exhortation in the Word! Love to see such humbleness, and respect among believers! We are all learning as Yahweh's Spirit directs us.
You handled that gently and held your composer👍🏻as Yeshua did with so many!and that my Brother is why I follow you and your team👍🏻❤️🙏🏻✝️
Thank you for staying humble, kind, direct, clear spoke and understanding throughout!! May The Father continue to lead us all to His truth as we live for Him and continue to teach us to truly be ONE with Him and each other! HalleluYah and Thank you all so much for your ministry and hearts that love the Most High!!
If the law is done away with then what do we have to repent from? The law shows us our sins so we know what to repent for.
Unfortunately, many Christians who don't believe in Torah don't teach repentance.
@Jessie Alexander Hello, sorry we're making you angry. That certainly wasn't my intention. You mention our SINful nature within. May I ask, is it not the Torah that reveals what is sinful in the first place? 1 John 3:4.
Church believes just follow New Testament
WOW! Master Class 119! I watch and enjoy Micheal Wingers teaching knowing that he works harder than most to learn as much as he teaches. He did his due diligence and what his heart/Lord led him to do. I hope there are more debates with Micheal Winger. I believe that after more debates Micheal will have the heart and intellectual honesty to rethink his position after years of being fed twisted doctrines and lazy refried commentaries. It's not what the church has taught me that has me upset, it's what it didn’t teach me. Amen. Shalom
The writer of Hebrews says Yeshua can't be a high priest on earth because the Law forbids it. That literally proves that the Law is still in full effect.
Do remember which chapter that's in?
@@crazywhiteboy613
Hebrews 8:4
4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law.
@@fivebooks8498 Thanks
This was a fantastic rebuttal. Lhoqvinh and kind.
Yahshua thought so much of the law that He died for it.
He was the law, the word which was made flesh and dwelt with us. But he died for us 👍
Lol nope. Bible never says that. He died for His church. You see why we have such a hard time talking to hrm ppl.
Jenna Caruthers you so right He did it and we are supposed to follow his example!!
Murphy Itzyue the bible says he died for the law of sin and death ,now we have to go through him .look up lawlessness in bible it makes him very angry .
@@route2033 Hrm have been corrupted by Judaism (Talmud) as the denominational churches have been corrupted by lawlessness. One side has added to, the other taken away from the law. As for the Torah, read psalm 1. We're not supposed to just walk the Torah out, we're supposed to become it. It's called having the testimony of Christ and keeping the commandments of god. Now try explaining that to a lawless denominational Christian or a misguided Hebrew roots occultist. Here's a tip, drop the labels along with mans corrupted teachings which come with them, consistently study the Bible 'in context', pray, follow the spirit and stop trangressing god's law (sin)
Excellent . I love in General Pastor Mike Winger .. but I believe you, 119 Ministries, have more correctly accurately “ divided “ Yah’s Word thru the Grace of YESHUAH
HALLELU YAH 🤍🕊🤍🕊🤍🕊by the power of the Ruach Ha Kodesh
Awesome insight! Yeshua told us to " follow Him". So He commands me to be a disciple. So I will obey EVERY WORD HE SAID. Case closed. I can love and be kind to anyone who thinks differently. I don't argue. The joy and closeness I have with the Saviour is so awesome that I finally know what "peace that passes all understanding" really means!
i think mike should watch this , this is such a breath of fresh air
Thank you!
Alany if you search Mike Winger Hebrew roots, he has a multi-part series. In Part 2, he mentions having watched this video. It's a pretty thorough explanation! And same here, I feel 119 explained it really thoroughly... And says the information should be sifted through, and make up your own mind.
Part 3, he goes into Acts
I don't understand how people can have so much biblical knowledge but yet be si blind, I mean I get that I didn't know I was supposed to keep the Torah before I actually learned what it meant but to come against it is mind boggling. Yahushua says it himself.
I am so far from where I need to be bu even where I'm at I can't see coming against Yahushua's own words on how I should strive to live.
I listen to Christian pastors whom have a lot if good doctrine but once they start coming against the Torah I just don't get it.
I love your name. 🤣😂
A great response to Pastor Winger objections, I see that all teachings of Jesus are for all the world not only to the Jews.we were created for good works of the Law , all commandments, not for salvation but for obedience, His glory and our sanctification.
Very cool to see such a respectful and thoughtful exchange between brothers in Messiah!
1 John 3:24
And he that keeps His commandments abides IN Him, and He IN him. And this is how we know He abides IN us, by the Spirit He has given us.
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmut of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of Elohim.
shalom and blessings
Not everything that looks like a sheep is a sheep.
@@BiblersWayCottage just cause it says "commandments" there it does not mean it is an automatic reference to the Sinai Covenant..
119 Ministries made sarcastic memes that attack Christianity before.
ayechaben 7
Shalom to you
We were never saved by the Sinai covenant
We were saved by the promise given to Abraham which was through faith !!
Galatians 3:11-19
11 But that no one is justified by the Torah/law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
12 Yet the Torah/law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
13 ¶ Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 ¶ Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the Law/Torah, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the Torah/law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 ¶ What purpose then does the Torah/law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
We are justified by the blood of Christ - YAHUSHA HAMASHIACH
Then our walk by the spirit which is the Word of Elohim - Ephesians 6:17
John 17:17
Sanctify them by your truth your Word is truth
Psalm 119:142
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness and Your Torah/Law is truth.
So we are saved by grace through faith and this is the faithful walk Abraham walked in Genesis 26:5
"because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
After it says we are saved by grace in Ephesians 2:8-9 verse 10 tells us this
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
1 John 2:3-7
3 ¶ Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
7 ¶ Brethren, 🔥I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.🔥
Seek His face on this in prayer and fasting and allow Him to reveal it to you 🙏🏽
As for the commandments being the Torah of Sinai I would say it most certainly is, I will show you some scriptures showing that Messiah didn’t come with His own doctrine or teaching but of His Fathers
John 7:16
16 ¶Jesus/YAHUSHA answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 14:23-24
23 ¶ Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
I truly pray this blesses you and that the Holy Spirit guides us all home to be with our Coming King forever
I'm glad to see that you leave the comments open so people can share their views thank you
One thing Mike forgets is Micah 4:2...
2 Many nations shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
This is another one of those New Millennium passages. Something to think about.
I want to respond to the emotional appeal comment. I watch 119 BECAUSE there's no a huge emotional appeal. And quite frankly, I left the church for the same reason: I was fed up with week after week singing through stanza after stanza of the "invitation" hymn that was punctuated by emotional appeals that incited more guilt that this poor humble man had gone to the cross JUST because of YOUR filthy sins. You'd have to be a cad not to "accept him into your heart."
Christians automatically assume that when you say you're observing Torah (to the best of one's ability) that you hate the Messiah and should at the very least be punched in the face. They completely ignore the multiple instances of the strangers and foreigner who joined to Israel to serve the Most High as coming under the laws given to Israel.
And as far as Yahshua and Torah--no self-respecting Jew would have listened to Him had he preached the Torah's voiding. They knew better (Deut 13).
Agree! We kept thinking Jon would address the issue of ONE law for Israel and the Gentile (Ger) who joined himself to Israel.
I left the Hebrew Roots Movement after being involved 7 years. All these Hebrew Rooters do is fight, argue, condemn, criticize, accuse.
@@genelavada9312 the Apostles never called Gentile Believers as Israel. In fact no record they circumcised Gentiles, a Commandment of the Torah for Israel.
@@gesi9781 , You haven't read the Acts 15. And also the following:
From Torah:
Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
From New Testament:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
@@gesi9781
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Be patient. He will come around, especially after this rebuttal. He sounded just like I did when I began reasoning with myself about this issue.
The indoctrination is thick and it takes time for the fiery double-edged sword to sink in through the Dispensational fat of our heart and circumcise it.
That would be amazing to see, but I have my doubts. Often pastors and those who have been in a teaching ministry have too much too loose, and so resist the leading of God's Spirit. They rather stick to their old teachings...
As for Melchizadok, the Torah requires the fisrstborn male to be redeemed at the Temple because the Order of Melchizadok is the higher priesthood and the original priesthood from which the Order of Aron is taken for the earthly Tabernacle.
Another issue Christians seem to have is with with word "fulfill". Somehow it is taken to mean "Christ did for us so now it's over and we don't have to do it", when in fact, if you look it up in Strongs it means to "fill to the full". It's why He's called the author and finisher of our faith. He did exactly that on the Sermon on the Mount. He brought the spiritual aspect to the words written on stone. There were no new commandments. You can't commit adultery until you have first lusted. You cannot steal until you have first coveted. You cannot murder until you have first hated. There is perfect harmony with the New Covenant and obedience to Torah.
A beautiful and gentle teaching. I agree with 119 ministries regarding the Torah but I love listening to Pastor Mike and other Christian teachers. To see two brothers with different views discuss this topic in such a respectful and Godly manner is refreshing to see.
Thank you for creating this video and responding with clear, well thought out, scripture rich points.
May the Father bless you and yours.
Study your bible about false "subjects" in the bible (I mean prophets, teachers, pastors, anointed, priests)
You´ll find what they all have in common is not following and teaching the law of God, as the parable of the sower, explains, the fruit is the result of living the word of God. And as Jesus said you will detect "false ..." by their bad fruit.
2 John 1:4-10
@@edgaralejos8989
I understand about false prophets. I also know that we're each on this journey to understand God's word more richly.
I didn't understand Torah 7 years ago, had no idea about it. The Spirit gently opened my eyes in my study and helped me to see the importance of observing the feasts and Sabbath etc.
Mike Winger says in his video regarding the Hebrew Roots movement that he wants to be obedient and if he believed Torah was for today he would follow it.
In time he may do just that.
We can pray for our brothers and sisters in Messiah to have their eyes opened to the fullness and truth of the Torah that Messiah taught.
@@graftedingrace6594 I´d follow John and Paul recommendation about teachers who not follow Torah. 2 John 1:10 2 Tim 3:5 but I have only 4 years , probably you are more mature and can handle
@@edgaralejos8989 Thank you for kind and respecful reply. Shalom.
Love 119 ministries... Enough said!!
Love God
Love people, spouse, neighbours, enemies
I'm pretty sure that we all know Solomon was and is known to be the wisest man ever walked the Earth and so in his conclusion after he said everything is vanity he stated "Fear God and obey all his Commandments for this is the whole duty of ALL men" he never said the commandments are only for a certain group of people Israel but he said ALL MEN. Believing in the word of God that states "Everything is mine, the soul of the father and the soul of the children are mine, the soul that sinneth it shall die", God never said all souls of the Israelites are his but everything meaning all that sinneth they are all gonna die. and what is sin sin is lawlessness or commandmenrless.
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void." (Matthew 22:37-40; Luke 16:17)
Good job on this video. The change in law that was referred to should be stated as "change in the instructions" or Torah. The Messiah as our heavenly High Priest in the order of Melchizedek doesn't go by the "Torah" or "instructions" for the Levitical priests on earth. You did a very respectful job dealing with this pastor's objections. He is obviously well-trained in his theology, but He lacks the wisdom of the Torah which is the foundation of the whole Bible. I noticed he has a few (or maybe more) videos going after the "hebrew roots movement". I hope for his sake that means he is searching and wanting to know the truth. Sadly he is no different than thousands of other pastors and teachers who's minds are closed to the Torah because they have believed the Enemy's lie that it is "done away with". Thanks for patiently putting together these counter arguments. I hope he would tune in and consider them. Yehovah bless.
I would say that your gentle answer to criticism recommends you but actually you go farther because many so called Christian videos either do not accept comment or they delete critical ones. Kudos for even accepting the criticism.
I must say that even after all these years I often feel that I am walking a tightrope between grace and law. I often find myself getting angry with those who cling to a division of the two. They often invent things like divisions between the law of Moses and the commandments of God or between loving your neighbor and keeping the commandments as if you could love your brother without keeping the commandments : " I love you brother but I'm going to steal your lawnmower that I have been coveting and lie about it if asked".
Your wise and kind answer admonished me to be gracious and kind and you made excellent use of your rebuttal to his arguments.
I have prayed for you, please pray for me as I struggle with this as well. Often when I think I am being gracious, it does not come across that way.
I am very firm and confident naturally so although God has humbled me greatly, when I speak in confidence about what God's Word says, people get offended.
God help us to see and hear the dividing line between righteous and unrighteous offense. Help us to love all of our brothers and sisters but especially the lost and dying. Help us to show your love beyond all understanding and not compromise on truth about your Holiness. Amen.
I think the easy way to describe the response from 119 ministries is this: Pastor Winger much like the rest of Christianity ignores what the "old testament" prophets have to say about sin, and the law, and what these two themes look like in a new world where the Messiah reigns and rules over all.
He like most of Christianity, believes that the NT exists in a vacuum, and the only verses used to prove his position can only come from the NT, because the OT is fulfilled (whatever that means). The only way you can prove that the law of God given through Moses is abolished today, is by taking the NT, twisting it, and ignore what the prophets and Torah itself teaches.
When you take this view (the Torah is abolished), and hold it to the light of the new testament, you realize that either the Bible completely contradicts itself, making it useless, or your theology and impressions of the apostles in the NT are very wrong. You can't have it both ways, either they all are in harmony, or nothing is in harmony.
Are there passages that are difficult to get through? Of course there are, and those can be up for debate, but when God Himself breathes laws into existence, they cannot or will not be abolished, or taken back. It all must harmonize.
Unfortunately, many of the people coming out of mainstream Christianity(and into Hebrew Roots) bring their NT understanding with them, deem Paul a "false apostle" and throw out half the NT as a result.
@@northoftoofar3772 such a tragedy. It makes one wonder how strong ones faith was to begin with? This causes much self reflection for me too because I do not ever want to be deceived as these people have been!
When I got saved I felt like a veil was lifted from my eyes! I thought I could see clearly. What I didn't realize was that I was covered by many veils as a deceived and deceitful sinner.
Christ ripped of the first veil allowing me to see much clearer, but He has been ripping off veils ever since!!! My eyes become more and more open the more I meditate on His wonders and the more and more I forsake my old life.
Much change happened overnight, but it is a sanctification process. We all must remember this and have grace for one another while also not being afraid to speak truth always!!!
Please pray for the body that through our head which is Christ we would strengthen what is left and somehow redeem and restore what is dying!! Lament for the deceived and plead with them always in love and truth.
When I was just beginning to come across looking into Torah and what that meant, descale spell and my eyes were opened. At that time I was listening to some stuff by Mike and appreciated most of it although I was taken aback about his video on Halloween. He was also wishy-washy or not strong enough on Bethel and Bill Johnson. I spoke to him on a different matter on the phone and he had admitted that he was too soft on it. He has made a video that strongly opposes Bethel now. When I started listening to his Hebrew Roots stuff it really bugged me because I felt that he was the one being manipulative and he was saying things that I knew weren't true. For the first few years I was afraid to even say what I believe on Facebook, because of all the bad press about the Hebrew roots. Yes there's some weirdos and weird teaching within the Hebrew roots! But I have also had great respect for a lot of videos that have been teaching the whole Bible. I have to admit I quit listening to you guys early on because of some bad stuff I had heard that I know now wasn't true. When I was trying to find a fellowship in North County in San Diego, I ran into one of your fellowships listed. He was 37 and he said his wife was a Jehovah's Witness and he believed the same thing she did about Jesus and Hell. That was the only Torah Fellowship that was in my area and I thought maybe you believe that way too. I started listening to you again this past year and have been blessed. You are discipling me now. I have told people regarding Hebrew roots that when you think that all of us are teaching some weird Doctrine or cult, it's like saying all Christians are like Kenneth Copeland. I challenged them to just read the Bible for what it says and to get rid of the traditions of men. I was open in 1990 to Messianic Judaism but I steered clear because the fellowship that I want to seem to treat Gentiles as second-class Citizens and there was a lot of Jewish traditions that were man-made. I just want to follow Yeshua, because that's what Yeshua said to do, follow me.
I know who you are referencing because I visited that group also, but it was a very long time ago. They moved around a lot, so I think I only visited once. Some other issues surfaced later, so I didn't pursue returning. It's extremely difficult to find a fellowship with sound teaching. This ministry seems sincere and humble in their pursuit of truth. As Jon said, we all are right and wrong on some things. I'm in Riverside County if you'd like to email
Excellent teaching .... from the holy scriptures...that will make us wise unto Salvation thanks for "showing the love " and in taking the time to explain this" line upon line".... blessings and Love to you in Jesus Yeshua Amien
I agree the 119 ministry we have to keep the TORAH. Yeshua said fallow me as i fallow my father in heaven. And paul said emanate me as i emanate christ. Shalom.
If we have to keep the Torah then why did he say that salvation is by grace through faith alone?
@@LoveAcrossAmerica we don't HAVE to keep Torah. We WANT to keep Torah because we have faith in Messiah Yeshua and Torah is who the Father YHWH wants his people to live in subjection to. The entire old testament is showing God's character and God's expectations of his people. Yeshua kept Torah. We keep it because to us, obviously, it would make God happy to see his children obeying his instruction. We simply want to please our Father. And we are keeping his commands because it makes sense that it would please him to listen to him.
@@LoveAcrossAmericait is grace by faith but faith without works is dead. Works are how we show our faith.
Concerning whether "gentiles" are commanded to keep torah Lev 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. We are not gentile Christians! We are gentiles grafted into the tree of Israel becoming Israelites, heirs of the promises
Boom!!!!
😉
The Word interprets itself. Good call
"JFYI" That's correct. No longer gentile Christians. We are Israelites, and heirs to the promises. And truth be told, Yeshua (Jesus) was never a Christian. He never came to start a new religion. He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Biblical Judaism was the faith of Yeshua, and He attended synagogue as His custom. Also all the Apostles were never Christian. They were Jews following Yeshua who was the leader of a (sect) of Judaism known as "The Way," not the way of the "Rabbinic Pharisees (Talmudic Judaism)". (See "The Natsarim" a Documentary.) Shalom
@@larrylegg80 agreed, everything Yeshua did was against mishnaic/Talmudic Judaism. To destroy the traditions of men and exalt the actual Torah of elohim. Mar 7:13 TS2009 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”
Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response to his video. I’m curious if he watched it and if he did, what he thought about it. Praying the Father continues to bless 119 ministries.
It's wonderful to see the respect shown :) This may already be in the comments as I haven't went through them but in regards also to gentiles/nations keeping the Torah: When the Israelites left Egypt, and many from the nations went with them, they were all at Mt. Sinai for the giving of the Torah. Like Messiah said: A house divided cannot stand. They were one people. Blessings to all..Shalom
If we can agree that this is NOT about salvation, because it isn't. Salvation is by faith not by works. This is about obedience to God. Both sides are genuinely wanting to do what is right according to Scripture. It also seems apparent that one group is being deceived to believe something that is not the truth. So, if Satan is deceiving someone into believing a lie, would it make sense that he is tricking people to follow all of God’s instructions (remember this isn't about Salvation)? Or would it make more sense that Satan would not want people to follow God's instructions and tell lies about why they shouldn't do them?
@NorthStars the Steagle Very sad to hear about Ravi. Nobody is as good as with think or as bad as with think. We all can be deceived...even the elect. Stay focused on God. If you sin repent and He will be faithful to forgive us.
@NorthStars the Steagle I think it is just a way to try and make sense of how this could happen to a believer to say they must never have actually believed. To me this isn't for us to figure out. That's God's job and He will, justly and correctly.
@NorthStars the Steagle You too brother. Looking forward to meeting you someday!
Ephraim is waking up. Those that hear His voice are returning. The lawless will continue to make excuses for themselves and teach others to break the Torah.
A very interesting, thoughtful, logical, and kind-spirited discussion regarding the keeping of GOD's Law. I found everything you said very reassuring and quite reasonable without the theological gymnastics I've witnessed throughout my evangelical lifetime experiences. Your explanation beginning at 5:45 regarding so many of us surely resonated with this old guy! Thank you again for all your fine teaching. I appreciate greatly your non know-it-all approach that most other theologians take.
Thank you for this video. I fully understand now what is the purpose of YHWH's Law (OT Law) in my life as a believer who was saved by YHWH's Grace through Yeshua HaMashiach by the power of the Holy Spirit. YHWH's Law (OT Law) is not to deliver me from my sin but to guide me in living righteous like Yeshua to please Father YHWH. The Scripture/YHWH's Law is my guide. It is written for me as my complete guidance to be a true follower of Yeshua not to destroy me but to elevate Yeshua within me. Yeshua is my Only WAY (Saviour)...The TRUTH and The LIFE and YHWH's Law (OT & NT) is my guidance.
*YHWH's Law is my guidance to know good vs evil, right vs wrong, just vs unjust, moral vs immortal, wise vs fools, wicked vs righteous, truth vs lies...ect
This is exactly what the Apostle Paul teaches.
Amén!!! Well said!
Nice to see a familiar face here. :p I’ve just started looking into all this stuff; very interesting!
An excellent response- both in scripture and delivery!
🙌🏼 Glory be to Yah... let’s continue to WORSHIP HIM and Seek Him always 🕎🙏🏼🎶🎵🎹
I LUV 119 ministies very much they catapulted me into a mature bible understanding. So this which i now say comes from the wonderful seeds that 119 has sowed in me. The change of the LAW .....is from the law of sin and death to the law of Spirit and life ....God law stands just as Jesus Christ Himself is the walking talking 10 commandments. The whole bible from start to finish hide this wisdom .only those who are called into the 144000 holy of holies will get this .His Bride .
Thank you for the humble clarity with which you've opened the Word of God. God bless you!
Thank you!
Thank you for your work. This video is good. I also was or am completely obsessed with apparent contradictions for the past few years. I have already watched all of the Pauline Paradox and many more of your videos. I thought I was completely alone in my position that every message and messenger needs to be subject to God and not the other way around. You guys are the first I found that agree with my position almost completely. It's pretty strange that everyone seems to be ignoring what God has said from beginning to the end (Revelation) that The Law stands. Who in their right mind would conclude that the words of the God who spoke reality into existence could just suddenly be null and void? Thank goodness He clearly declared in Matt 5 17, and many other places , that that is not so. Revelation 14 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
check out nystv, fojc radio and torah life ministries too... you're not alone. :)
Wow! What an amazing teaching. Thank you for sharing truth.
This is a good example of iron sharpening iron and getting it done respectfully using Scripture for teaching and reproof. 119 exegesis is key to getting to the truth of the matter.
119 made such a graceful response and you backed up your stance with Scripture.
In my own study, even I knew that "Lawlessness" is "Anomia" in Greek and that it means Breaking God's Law...
The purpose of the law is to show us that we can't earn God's favor. It is a mirror to show us our fallen state. We do not then take that mirror off the wall to try to fix ourselves. We run to Jesus in repentance and put our trust in Him not in our own deeds. Jesus is the Word. The Torah is not Jesus nor is it even close to the complete scripture. I don't reject the Torah, nor do I follow it.
@@EtherealOrbAbastractArt the Law was put in place to identify to us what Is the Right way and what is the Wrong way. It's more than just, "see... you're definitely a sinner because you can't keep all these rules." If that were so, He would not have chastised His people so ruthlessly. They refused to obey, so he LED them into enemy hands for slaughter, after sending Prophets to warn them and plead with them to return to Him. You are missing the fact that the Israelites entered into a Marriage covenant with Yehovah at Sinai. They were His Bride, they KNEW the terms of the Covenant, they were an unfaithful wife. God divorced them and scattered them into the nations. He Died so he could re-marry Her, according to his own Laws about Marriage. The 'Bride' is the Seed of Abraham, but it is not a descendent by blood but by Faith According to the Promise. So now, God says His law is everlasting and that heaven and earth won't pass away until every part of his Torah, every jot and tittle, is accomplished. If you claim to be His Bride, you entered into the same Marriage covenant and The Groom expects a faithful, spotless Bride. Keeping the Law does not save, but the Proof of your love and fidelity to Him is obedience. Yeshua himself stated He did not come to destroy the law. He kept the Sabbath, Torah, and Feast Days. So Did the Disciples. Yeshua is Torah. He is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us.
That is what Yeshua meant when he said, "if anyone wants to be my Disciple they MUST deny themselves (deny your own understanding, deny your pagan holidays, deny your unclean foods, etc), take up his cross (as he suffered, so will we), and follow Him," Matthew 16:24-26. If Yeshua is to be our example to love like He loved and lived like He lived, then we too are supposed to keep from profaning the Sabbath and keep our Temples Holy.
@@EtherealOrbAbastractArt one more thought- The Bible tells us not only the above about denying ourselves, but also to crucify our flesh. To walk in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. To work out our Salvation with fear and trembling. It sounds like you're saying that once you receive Forgiveness, you don't have to put any work in to Obey God🤔 What is Repentance then? Repentance is turning around from the wrong path you were on, course correct and walk on the Straight & Narrow path- the correct way. But you have to walk... You have to put in work. Faith without works .... Faith without actual proof of your faith, is dead. Actions speak louder than words. Yeshua himself said that if you Love Him, keep His Commandments. Plus, what do you think Yeshua was teaching the people the whole time? The Torah! Also, John 5:39-46 tells the Pharisees that He is Torah. The "scriptures" is Torah...The Torah speaks of Yeshua Messiah. Moses wrote what? The Law / Torah. "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote of me."
Ok, that's it. I was in your shoes too, for 26yrs. Then He woke me up. I pray that you humble yourself before Him and ask Him to lead you to His truth.
@@SopranoJessi you say we enter into the same covenant but Jesus calls it a new covenant. One of the biggest barriers to truth is the presumption that we already have it. I believe the problem in being a Christian today is that we neglect the whole counsel of God as Paul, the apostle personally sent by Jesus, says he did not shun to declare unto us.
This video has answered so many questions I’ve had since coming into Torah. Thank you for making it so understandable. I pray that Pastor Mike will receive this remembering that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today and forever and while we are still here on earth, every dot and tittle will remain in effect.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2
Romans 7:12- So then, *the law is holy* , and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? *BY NO MEANS [I.E. GOD FORBID]!* Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that *the law is spiritual* , but I am CARNAL, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, *I agree that the law is good* .
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work *👉* : _Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me._ *👈*
22 For *in my inner being I DELIGHT in God’s law* ;
23 but I *see **_ANOTHER_** LAW* at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of *THE LAW OF SIN* at work within me.
@Mido Zido with complete love and respect, you missed it too...just like the OP. That's why I wrote out the passage with highlights. I encourage you to read it with fresh eyes. Don't skim through it and read all the way to the end
@Mido Zido
You said, _"The law of spirit (christ) is far far harder than the law of Moses"_
But Paul's passage shows that God's law (i.e. the law of moses) = the law of Spirit. They are one.
The Op wrote, "for the law of spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin & death", which is completely true...but the law of Moses (i.e. God's law) is *NOT* the law of sin & death as your reply implies. This is what Paul's passage is explaining.
...That there are *two laws* at work in him:
1 - God's Law, called "spiritual" and "good" and "holy", which Christ said leads to life.
2 - Another Law called "the law of sin", which is described as "knowing what is good (i.e. God's law) but not doing it and doing evil instead". And we know that sin brings forth death. Thus, _the law of sin & death_
-----
_"For the law of spirit of life (i.e. God's law) - 👉in Christ👈 - has set me free from the law of sin & death."_
...in other words, the missing piece of the puzzle of us successfully obeying God's law, was/is Christ.
God's law, lived through the example and Holy Spirit Christ gave, sets us free from sinning all the time and ultimately dying. This is the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-33 of "putting God's law INSIDE of a believer" (Holy Spirit) so that he *wants to* and knows how to walk in obedience to it.
Revelations 14:12 _"Here is the patience of the saints, they that _*_(1) keep the commandments of God_*_ and the _*_(2) faith of Christ_*_ "_
@Mido Zido
The Word of God = The Law (Torah)
Christ = The Word of God "made into flesh"
Thus, Christ is the personification of God's Law. He could no more toss away God's law than He could toss away himself. And we can no more reject God's law than we can reject Christ's Holy Spirit. They are one and the same. Both the law and the holy spirit were even given on the same holiday: Pentecost.
Christ said, "Man does not live by bread one but by every Word from God."
Christ also said, "I am the bread from heaven. Eat of me and live."
Then Christ said, "Moses wrote of me. If you don't believe what Moses wrote how can you believe what I say?"
Christ IS God's Law. Christ IS the word from God's mouth.
"Love God will all your heart, soul, mind, and strength...love your neighbor as yourself." - Christ's law of love.
"And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." - Deuteronomy 6:5
"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." - Leviticus 19:18
Notice that the love laws Christ gave are directly from God's Law which came through moses. The problem was that God's law was still on the OUTSIDE of man, not on the INSIDE.
This is what the New Covenant promise is: to put God's law (Christ) on the inside of man, fulfilling the mystery of godliness: "Christ in you, the hope of glory".
Ezekiel 36:27 - "And I will put my Spirit in you and *move you to follow* my decrees and *be careful to keep* my laws...I will be your God and you will be my people."
There is no other new covenant spoken of in all of scripture than the one described in Jeremiah and Ezekiel: to forgive sins and write God's Law on the believer's heart to compel them to obey it, just like Christ did. The free gift of grace - which can't be earned - teaches us exactly how to do that day by day (Titus 2:12)
@Mido Zido
Wow. Well it looks like your spirit has shown itself. I came to you with love and edification but you come with a judgmental spirit and derision and mockery.
"And you shall know them by the fruits they bear." Whatever spirit is in a person will always reveal itself.
Take care.
Something to learn about the confrontation of Yeshua and Satan is this: If the devil can't make you fail and break the law of God, he'll use his ultimate weapon. To use the same Scripture to make you break the law.
As we all know, this is the fundamental of Christianity, use some verses of the New testament to annulate the old testament.
I rather stick to the belief that my God does not change and Jesus did not went against the one who sent him.
Blessings
WOW!! So true!! 🤭😨
Not sure how anyone still argues against following Gods laws.
Numbers 15:15 (ESV): For the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you, a statute forever throughout your generations.
WOW...I just watched this video it was SOOOOOO GOOD!!! Thank you 119!!!
It makes so much sense. 119
Thank you!
Beautifully done by both parties! ☺️🙏💛💫✨
So which laws are kept spiritually like circumcision of the heart and which are kept naturally like the sabbath. If we are circumcised in heart shouldn't bring circumcised in the flesh follow?
It seems as though that's what he's teaching. Please correct me if I'm wrong
i watched pastor mikes the law, gentiles & hebrew roots. he is confused & does NOT know the definition of fulfill. - he said that Yashua did not ABOLISH but he there is an INTENDED END.
i love you guys so much for this kind and thorough response , i really appreciate this godly response. though we may disagree , i am so glad this was the way it was done :)
Why do you disagree?
Kenneth Boyd i'm not apart of the hebrew roots movement , i believe the new testament explains to us clearly how we are to use the torah, like in hebrews, colossians, romans , acts etc but they are still my brothers and sisters in Christ , who believe in the power of the cross
I totally agree with 119 ministry with their response
An absolute beautiful display of spiritual jujitsu. God bless you and the crew at 119 Ministries.
Demons believe, and shudder. It can’t be just as simple as I have faith in Jesus, because even if it was, you’d still better keep His commandments which are the table of contents of the Torah (not LAW).
Truth!!!!!!!!!
Great video. Mike is a good guy, he is just a little bit behind some of us in the great awakening. He will get there
I am so grateful for this teaching, it will help me minister to my fellow brothers who seem to be disappointed with my observations of scripture which are in alignment with this teaching, shalom
We keep Gods laws because we are saved not to be saved 🙏🙏🙏
@Jessie Alexander the Torah AKA law is also the Truth, that's why Messiah is the walking talking Torah 💯♥️📖
@Jessie Alexander Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. Psalm 119:142 KJV 💯♥️📖
I would also urge you guys to not use the term "law of Moses" as I feel it's a misleading term. Those laws are Yahweh's laws that he passed down through Moses.
Genesis 26:5 by itself would seem to agree with you
Deuteronomy 5:3 would explain why we call it Law of Moses
It seems the laws of God are passed down through generations, but not all the laws of God were passed down since the beginning... The covenant with Israel was not like the covenant with Abraham....
Why?
Another good important point to bring out is in HEBREWS 7 when it says change in the law....the greek word use for this verse meant "transferred" not change..so this was another poor job of translation into the English so when we truly read the verse in context with the correct rendering of the word "transferred" the law to CHRIST and not changed it makes more sense and its not contradicting the old TESTAMENT like christianity does .
GAD-ISSACHAR wrong. The Greek word used is Metathesis. It is used three times and all three are used in different context. In Hebrews 7:12 and 12:27 it is translated either change or transformation.
In Hebrews 11:5 it is translated removal.
I’m going to assume maybe this is an unintentional error on your part. I want to believe the best in all men. So I would urge you not to speak falsely without evidence to support your claim.
The verb version is metatithemi. It literally means transfer or go over to.
@@SabastianDuke the greek word in the lexicon is "metatithaymee" meaning to transfer and in the greek translation i have for HEBREWS 7:12 , or some say replaced either way its speaking of the levitical priesthood being transferred over to CHRIST just like it was in the ABRAHAM days with melchizedek before mt.sinai, the law was established in GENESIS even ABRAHAM kept the law, kane and abel had offerings how did kane know he sin if the law didn't say murder is a sin
GAD-ISSACHAR I found the issue. You’re translating only the reference to the use of the word in the part “for when the priesthood is changed”
The change referred to of the law uses the word Metathesis. Go reread the Greek. So you would be correct on the first one as being a transfer to a new priesthood, but you still have to deal with the fact that the next line states that there is a Metathesis in the law.
And to address the other part of your comment, they didn’t keep the whole law of Moses. They listened to the voice of the Lord and acted in faith.
Abraham also offered up his son, which was a shadow of things to come. But you would be hard pressed to prove that human sacrifice was part of the law . ;)
Believing in the Messiah, includes believing in the "Faith" of the Messiah. His Faith was in the righteousness of Yahweh, expressed in the Torah, which he demonstrated by living it out even unto death!
great job loving like The Father loves. we glean much in your harvest of sharing the scriptures. many times you confirm what The Father has already shown us. we are praying The Perfect Will of The Father
I19 ministries is love humble and I strongly believe to be true ,lawlessness is for the ungodly otherwise how is yeshua supposed to judge to the earth ?
I've learnt so much from your ministry. It's great to do these videos because as Torah keepers we often have to answer the same questions from non Torah keepers. You equip me with logical scriptural answers to use if I'm ever asked these questions. However anyone I've ever spoken to about Torah never wants to crack open the Bible and reason through the scriptures they just tell me the law is done away with and that's the end of that. Maybe one day I might find a Christian who wants to investigate together and I can lean on your knowledge. Thankyou brothers for your work. Praise Yah. Shalom.
you could also ask, why if melchizedek existed with his priesthood, why there was a need for the levitical priesthood at all? Turns it around altogether.
Melchizedek was a priesthood derived from his own personal righteousness to God's will and ways. But when Israel, as a nation, was chosen, a standard for the priesthood, corporately, needed to be established so that not just anyone could conduct the sacrifices, maintain/enter the Tabernacle, and enter the Holy of Holies. It was a codification of how to properly, as a nation, worship the one true living God...on Earth. God took out all of the uncertainty and guesswork. Shalom
Mike Winger has a super smooth delivery and he is really talented there, but Truth doesn't require smooth delivery and isn't fragile. As far as Scholarly Theology, it is near impossible to make that clear to someone who doesn't have the conviction to read Colossians 2:8 carefully enough to make the clear scholarly deduction that the errors being taught could not have possibly been the command of Christ to follow Torah, "not relaxing even the least of the commands" as Mt5:17-19 further clarifies...and also because the false teachers are clearly defined in Col2:8 and those descriptions IN NO WAY APPLY TO TORAH/God's Word! The Church was following The Way which Jesus lived (1John2:3, 3:4, 5:3), and He kept Torah perfectly, or He would not have qualified to be the spotless Passover Lamb of God...and the false teachers were ASCETIC GNOSTICS that Paul is referring to in Col2, who hated the fact that these Christians were enjoying the Feasts and Sabbaths and rich foods that God provides for us on those occasions!
The teachers of LAWLESSNESS who reject Torah have twisted this teaching around to say the OPPOSITE of what Jesus and Paul teach. 2Peter3:14-17 addresses these lawless and unstable teachers and warns against "slipping into their error of twisting Paul's words and the other Scriptures!"
Rev14:12 might help, too. I was raised like Mike Winger and used to argue for the same old stale false Church lawlessness the same way he does. Then I read God's WORD myself with my whole heart and a desire to conform to Christ in all my ways like a faithful devoted Bride rather than a "casual virgin" who will be rejected, and, rather than to the teaching of men. Exodus31:13 and Lev23 will give you the foundation that Paul and Jesus taught from, which was the reason they constantly said "to the Jew first"...because they already had the foundation in the Mosaic COVENANT required to understand the New Covenant, which is simply a change in the Priesthood, from Levi to Melchizedek, with Jesus as High Priest. Also, the SIGN OF THE ANTI-CHRIST is something that you are careful to be aware of and refuse, right? The Mark of the Beast is coming...soon. What about the sign of YHWH that He puts on His people? Does that matter to you??? It should.
"And the LORD said to Moses, 13“You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you. 14You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death."
Believing the TRUTH and obeying Scripture will set us apart unto the LORD and make us seem strange to those who are not in Covenant with YHWH, but, isn't that what it is supposed to do? ")
Amen. To be Holy in all our conduct. And be set apart from the world.
Amen brother 🤗
Amen brother, anyone of us would have answered as most people on here are answering, we also sat in their seat at one time. That’s why we need to do it calmly, peaceably and in love. Well done