Making videos like it's 1992 - Supermac Nubus Spigot and Adobe Premiere 2.0 in Macintosh System 7.1.

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  • Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024
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Комментарии • 27

  • @SoftsellConclusion
    @SoftsellConclusion 3 года назад +2

    This video was completely incredible and truly fascinating, thank you very much for sharing your passion with us and never stop making videos like this

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад

      Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed this! I'll keep making things when I get bored.

  • @thromboid
    @thromboid 3 года назад

    12:15 Hehe, Amiga fan here, and yes, I was thinking of the Video Toaster, but also thinking "hmm, but didn't that pretty much work frame by frame, so I guess it's not really comparable". Fascinating video - thanks for staying up all night making it. :D

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад

      I'd like to use a Video Toaster sometime, I have an Amiga 2000, but without any of the Toaster add-ons. My understanding is that it isn't really a capture system, at least not without the Flyer that came later, just a switching board that could throw in some ( for the time pretty impressive) animations.

  • @salvatoreshiggerino6810
    @salvatoreshiggerino6810 3 года назад

    Awesome video. I remember seeing this stuff on various demo CD-ROMs back in the day, and always wondered what it would be like to actually use it as a video production tool.

  • @The_Conspiracy_Analyst
    @The_Conspiracy_Analyst 9 месяцев назад

    While this demonstrates it as a POC, the Quadras were the machines to have for doing stuff like this. Then they came out with the Quadra AVs which had video capture (and DSPs) built in.

  • @FluxxOG
    @FluxxOG 3 года назад

    I appreciate it youtube, you've out done yourself with this one.
    Thank you for your work. I'm glad I stumbled upon this video

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад +1

      I'm glad to see someone is interested in this, thanks!

  • @guaposneeze
    @guaposneeze 2 года назад +1

    Obviously, the video is very low res, even by the standards of digital video in the '90's. But honestly, it's shocking how good the video is for something done with a 68030. Even at the time, it wasn't an insanely powerful CPU. I briefly thought to make a comparison of how much less FLOPS a 68030 has compared to even a super cheapo computer today like a Rasberry Pi, but then I remembered that an '030 didn't even have an FPU so it couldn't do floating point in hardware at all!
    I used to dream of having access to hardware like this back in the early 90's. Now it's almost all completely forgotten.

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  2 года назад

      Yeah, I was also pleasantly surprised, particularly with the frame rate, which is just barely short of the film standard 24fps. The limiting factor is typically the SCSI controller, but maxing out the RAM and capturing straight to RAM drastically improves frame rate. The IIvx was released well into the 68040 era, was broadly panned for its weak performance for a $3k machine, and the price was slashed almost in half only a few months after release. It's worth noting, though, that while the 030 has no built-in FPU, many 030 machines (including this one) have a separate 68882 FPU on the motherboard. It is socketed, (the similar Performa 600 shipped without one, but it could be added later) so in theory I could pull out the FPU and see how it affects performance (not sure how much the capture and editing software take advantage of it.) I have a Raspberry Pi 3, and it is so much more powerful than even my top of the line dual 1.25 G4, so the gap between that and a 33MHz 030 must be insane.
      I was interested in computers back then, but we weren't tech savvy, my family used a Mac Plus, discarded by my father's work, into the late '90s. My introduction to digital video was a USB Kensington QuickCam in the early 2000s. I wasn't even aware of the Spigot until I came across one last year scrolling through eBay and went down a rabbit hole that culminated in this video.

  • @sideburn
    @sideburn Год назад

    I still have that card and the manual and I just repaired the iicx. But I don’t have the software and can’t find it 😢 until now! Awesome 👏

  • @darkwinter6028
    @darkwinter6028 3 года назад

    Before it was called Premiere, it was called ReelTime; and I remember seeing a alpha version on a friend’s machine (which of course didn’t work, it was a Mac SE).

  • @darkwinter6028
    @darkwinter6028 3 года назад

    We had a Radius Rocket in a Mac II, with a Radius VideoVision w/MJPEG accelerator card. Never worked quite right - I think the issue was the Rocket not liking QuickTime (real-time things like sound were a known issue with it). At the time, my dad was trying to do training videos; but would never save up enough $$$ to get hardware all of the same generation. He also didn’t want to “buy into yesterday’s technology”. The net result was that he jumped right from a MacII w/Rocket to an 8100 - a machine that also had known issues with NuBus hardware & real-time performance.
    Both the Mac II/Rocket combination and the 8100 were great machines otherwise; stuff like Freehand, Photoshop, or Director ran great (well, silently w/ Director on the Rocket, IIRC).
    A few years later; we ended up selling the VideoVision to a local guy who was in the industrial video business and had a Quadra. Seemed to work great when we demonstrated it in his machine; and I never heard about any issues with it later, so… ?
    It wasn’t until the iMac DV came out that we finally had a machine that could edit video seamlessly. Hmm… reminds me; I still have that iMac, I should probably dig it out and check on it’s capacitors and if it’s got a battery that needs replacing.
    Of course, now my phone shoots (and edits) video better than what’s found in quite a few feature films of late…

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад

      Interesting, I didn't realize those could (theoretically) be used with Rockets, makes sense, I can't imagine how they could operate at significantly higher resolution on machines from that era otherwise. I suppose the accelerator card must have made it possible to shrink the video under the SCSI bandwidth of those machines too. I worked with this whole video uncompressed because of how silly long it would take to compress each clip down. The final file at the end was over 1GB... I had to render to a different partition than the one I was editing on to avoid hitting the 2GB System 7.1 partition limit. Premier would run in 7.5-8.1, but wouldn't load the Screenplay files, so it would have been another conversion step to work in another OS version.
      Actually, an 8100/80 is my next planned addition to the collection. Although apparently with the VideoVison, a Quadra 840AV outperforms it in data rate. I more want it for audio production though. I've been playing with Sound Sculptor II on the IIvx, and it is neat, but the lack of duplex makes multitracking a pain, and Nubus audio cards cost more than a whole PowerPC Mac. Maybe the serial audio interface will fix that? I've still never owned a pre-G3 PowerPC though, seems like a significant omission.
      My first foray in digital video editing was on a beige G3/233 desktop with an added firewire card circa 2002-2003. I wish I had pursued it more seriously then, but never too late I suppose.
      And yes, most of the video related things I do now are on my phone. Lately I've been making short songs on my ancient Macintoshes and then shooting quick (usually vertical) videos for them for social media.

    • @darkwinter6028
      @darkwinter6028 3 года назад

      @@epiglottisdynasty A fast RAID & SCSI card was strongly recommended. As for the 8100, my understanding was that a surprisingly large amount of OS code was still 68k machine code and ran emulated on the early versions of System 7 that were “PPC compatible”… so the Quadra outperforming it doesn’t surprise me.
      Multitrack audio at the time was mostly dominated by DigiDesign’s Pro Tools system; which also was a bit finicky about the hardware it would run on. It needed a fast hard drive, with firmware that didn’t do head recalibration on-the-fly (because that would usually interrupt the data flow long enough for the audio to hiccup), and a fair bit of RAM. The big trick it had up it’s sleeve, aside from the obvious analog IO hardware, was that the system included dedicated DSP chips to do the mixing and effects processing - the main CPU was just responsible for getting the data from the hard drive to the DSP; and running the GUI.
      We never owned a Pro Tools rig ourselves, but my sister got a certificate in audio production from Sacramento City College (a junior college) before going on to get a full degree in communications. At the time she didn’t have a driver’s license yet; but I had both license and car, and nothing much to do in the evenings, so I ended up driving her to school and back. The instructors were nice enough to let me hang out in the back of the room; so I got to see a full high-end system in use (they also had an analog system with a full control booth looking down on a large performance room; complete with an Otari 24-track 2in tape machine and a 48 track mixing console (IIRC… might have been more tracks), a set of Meyer Sound monitors; and a bunch of other rack-mount gear). Most of the bands they recorded were only so-so (expectedly of course, it’s a junior college, not a big Hollywood studio) but some of them were really good and I wish I could have captured the multitrack recordings. Unfortunately, they usually ended up being given a scratch mix and dubbed to cassette; and the 2in tape bulk-erased and reused for the next band.

  • @darkwinter6028
    @darkwinter6028 3 года назад +2

    FTP transfer to a modern machine should work also.

  • @MagnumForce51
    @MagnumForce51 2 года назад

    Neat. I wonder how the performance of this card compares to the LC PDS version. I have a Video Spigot LC PDS card. It came with the Macintosh LCIII I got from eBay a year ago. Only paid $85 or so for the machine and it came with a working hard-drive and FPU installed! I later got it recapped by Mac84. (recapped the PSU myself however) so it's future proofed too.
    My video spigot seems to run at a similar resolution as yours. Interestingly the ScreenPlay program has a bug with mine where recorded video is all white unless I tick the record audio setting in preferences. Knowing the limitations of the NuBUS slot perhaps mine runs faster and is limited only by PDS slot (which I think is governed by the CPU speed)
    Mine is not the LCIII+ version that runs at 33mhz though. It's a standard 25mhz model. I'd probably have to overclock mine to see it out perform your setup I would bet. LCIII can only go to 36MB of ram though so it's a bit limited with ram upgrades.

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  2 года назад

      Nice! I haven't seen one of the PDS Spigots around, though I knew they existed. I wonder how rare they are. Screenplay has a few bugs for me too, if I turn on audio monitoring, sound will stop working until reboot when I try to play back. It also has very limited functionality in system 7.5 and up, and the drivers conflict with my Nubus ethernet card. I just use 7.1 for the Spigot and 7.5 and up for internet use.
      The PDS slot should be a lot faster than the Nubus, which is bottlenecked at 10MHz, though I don't think the Nubus slot is the limiting factor here. It would be interesting to see what frame rates I could pull on a Quadra. Maybe I'll try it in my 8100 sometime.
      As for an LC III vs a IIvx, the IIvx does have a faster CPU, but a slower bus speed, 16 vs 25. It was faster in some benchmarks and slower in others. The lower RAM ceiling is definitely a liability though, it would have made making this video harder, since I would have had to break down into smaller clips at times.

  • @DAVTechTalk
    @DAVTechTalk Год назад

    If it helps - you needed a serial device called a Farallon MacRecorder to work with Premiere 1.0 & Video Spigot card to get audio and video i 1991 & 1992 . We have setup here at Adobe... Many people used the Mac IIcx & Mac IIci with this setup in 1991

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  Год назад

      I've actually gotten one of those since I made this video to use with my SE! It really is more usable than the internal IIvx audio chip because you can adjust gain, the IIvx's internal sound is way too hot for my camera's output. The real fancy option would be a nubus audio card, some of those would have 16bit/44k audio.

    • @sideburn
      @sideburn Год назад

      I still have mine! Just repaired the iicx motherboard today. Will try the spigot card next. I remember it took two days to render a 15 minute video in premiere on my iicx with a radius rocket card and I think it had 40mb of ram. I had a $2,000.00 2GB hard drive and the (I think 640x480 but maybe 320x240) video filled the drive.. I worked for Kingston at the time so there was basically a bowl full of rejected ram for whatever reason that I could scoop from and load my machine up. Otherwise that much ram would have cost thousands.

    • @sideburn
      @sideburn Год назад

      I also found my MacRecorder out in my shed and almost tossed it until I remembered what it did and how valuable they are today! It works perfect still :)

  • @8bitwidgets
    @8bitwidgets 3 года назад

    Thank you so much for this pure demonstration of what was possible at the time. I'm looking to do this with a Quadra 650 with same card and audiomedia card.. at 132mb ram. hoping the 040 will give an extra bump in cpu to get 24fps solid. maybe 30? we'll see.

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад +1

      I would imagine a 650 recording directly to RAM would be able to run well over 30fps unless the Spigot card is the limiting factor. A dedicated audio capture card would help a lot too. So far, the build in audio (mono only in and out, no duplex, 22kHz@8 bit) has been the biggest limitation for me with this computer. It should work out well for you!

    • @8bitwidgets
      @8bitwidgets 3 года назад

      @@epiglottisdynasty i know that doing 8 voices of 16 bit 44khz audio is possible in Studio Vision but it's definitely taxing on the system as you can see even the desktop refresh rates begin to lag. I'm wondering if any of this software has optimization for 040 CPU. I'll do my own version of this. I'm running OS 7.5.5 atm, but IIRC you had shared similar progress in the FB group but maybe before you'd made this video (hazy on the timeline) and I know that I may have some issues with which version of Quicktime I have. I do kinda lament installing 7.5.5 because it's technically a version that was released Sept 1996.. which is about 3 months after the cutoff I have for a particular project I'm working on..
      I've got a list of things to work out and revamping my studio with a 4 x KVM to flip between a 233mmx Win98SE PC / Quadra 650 / G4 MDD / G5 Tower to share a common monitor/keyboard/mouse.. is in the works before I'm setup to do the video test stuff. The C64 and A1200 will have dedicated monitors because they are more instruments / effects than "main computers"..

    • @epiglottisdynasty
      @epiglottisdynasty  3 года назад +1

      @@8bitwidgets In Sound Sculptor II, I think I've gotten 8 tracks running at once without issue, though that was at 8 bit 22k, and no playback while recording, I just played everything along with a metronome and synched up later. As far as using beyond system 7.1, I was able to capture in 7.5, 7.6 and 8.1, but I couldn't save the files, even uncompressed. Also, even if I capture in 7.1 and try to edit in a later OS (which I wanted to for the higher volume limit) Premier can't open the Screenplay files in later OSes. Strangely, Screenplay will still play them up to OS 9.2.2, but not convert them into something that any other program (that I've tried) will read. I'm pretty sure this all comes down to Quicktime, the last version supported by Screenplay doesn't work beyond 7.1. A Quadra 650 will run 7.1, so if you can't get it working in 7.5, a 7.1 partition should work. Also, I don't think I mentioned this in the video, but the final output video from Premier 2 wouldn't upload to RUclips, so I had to convert it in a later version of Premier on my G3.
      I do also somehow need to find a way to make my setup more compact if I want all my systems set up at once. But my monitor requirements are different for all the systems, so KVM isn't ideal. I've got a IIvx, SE, Amiga 2000, beige G3, PDQ Powerbook G3, Kanga Powerbook G3, MDD G4, an Athlon 64 X2 system with a couple old M-Audio PCI cards and then my modern desktop and laptop, and I'm still trying to find a good 8100/80 (I've promised my S/O I'll stop after adding that, hah). At the moment, they're kind of spread between my apartment, my music studio and my parents' spare room.

  • @sideburn
    @sideburn Год назад

    I just set mine up and the spigot shows up on nubs using TattleTech and looks good but when i launch Screenplay 1.1.1 i get a spinning YenYang icon and then the machine locks up. its a Iicx, system 7.1 and 7.5.3 QuickTime 1.0 and 1.6. Adobe premiere is working fine so quicktime is good. running out of ideas.. I have Mode32 set as well.