If channels didn't have marketing, you wouldn't have anything to watch. Peter is in a very unique position to be able to afford to do this. RUclips AdSense revenue doesn't pay the bills on channels will less than subscriber counts in the millions
@@xenonram Correction, if channels didn't have marketing we would ONLY have guys like Peter to watch LoL. We just wouldn't have a platform like RUclips to watch them on... and so we should accept the NYC_CNC type shills to retain a place for legit machinist like Peter, Tom Lipton, Robin Renzetti, and the like to show stuff we REALLY want to see :) I use Premium and give the $$ to RUclips directy so as to keep the advertising out of my life.
@@Shoorit Serious question? or just poking a hornets nest of hate for the monetary BS that has consumed most every content creator who has surpassed 100K subs?
Amazing to see the anvils emerging from that block. Initially I wondered why you were using such long tooling when you were fighting the chatter, but I see why now.
We love those Mitsubishi HFM's at work. Tend to run the 1.5" 3 flute right around 1200 rpm, 100IPM, .025 doc in most any mild steel or cromoly. They seem pretty happy right there
RE: Tool chatter. Seeing that's it a roughing operation, I would add varying thickness shims behind the inserts, maybe up to .002". That might help break up the tool oscillation.
I've found using straight shank tools like that over 7xD I reduce the cutting speed by atleast 50% but keep the feed per tool close to 100% and ofcourse reduce depth of cut
Awesome video. Those shank type HFM cutters always vibrate like crazy. Nowadays I only use the shell mill type and vary the arbor length to suit my needs. The HFM cutters from Seco with the single sided 3 edge inserts work pretty well. I cut a lot of D2, 4140 prehard, sst 316 and 304.
i need to get some feed mills.. although if it sounded like that id have probably shit myself and ran. although i really appreciate you sharing the sound as you worked it out. insight on the tools was great, thanks.
Some feeds mills sound awesome and smooth especially with "adaptive/dynamic" strategies. But most feed mills love abuse... I use an old Hitachi 42mm feed mill at work that will happily run 11000mm/Min at 1mm ap 27mm ae in cast iron all day (297cm^3/Min MMR!!!). Makes a hell of alot of smoke though as its a b**ch to keep the heat out. (For the imperials those speeds were 433IPM 0.04 DOC 1.063 WOC and over 18Inches^3/Min MMR!!!)
Hi Peter, for the ISCAR H600: You should reduce the depth of cut and give it a bit more feed. The lenght of the tool won't allow you the full potential of the insert. Also it would help to ensure that the tool never stops when changing directions while in operation. Add big radii to the toolpath. Greetings from Germany from a ISCAR Engineer ;)
como siempre un placer seguir las enseñanzas de tu canal..ya tenias que tener 1 millon de suscriptores..como se nota que para tener suscritores ay que hacer tonterias sin sentido...que pena..pero bueno el mundo esta asi y tenemos que seguir su camino aunque a veces sea tortuoso..un abrazo fuerte y mucha salud
The golden rule for coolant with carbide tooling is to use no coolant or guaranteed 100% flood. Intermittent supply of coolant to a hard working carbide insert will lead to thermal cracking and rapid tool failure. In this situation with deep cut channels, 100% coverage would be difficult to achieve, plus it is only a roughing operation so dimensional accuracy being affected by he work piece temperature is a secondary consideration.
Very interesting, I was running a similar but smaller (1.25” dia, 3 insert) Kennametal end mill on some 4140 steel in my little TM1 last week and had similar problems with vibration/chatter. I never did find a combination of feed/speed/DOC that worked well. The TM1 probably just wasn’t beefy enough. Anyway thanks for showing your work!
@@EdgePrecision I also have a 3/4” dia Kennametal one with 2 inserts. Would you guess that might work on the TM1 if I kept the DOC fairly low? Just curious, I already finished the job that I was doing. I do very little steel on the TM1. It was an interesting experiment if nothing else, I left enough meat on the piece that it cleaned up just fine with a 1/2” end mill.
Are you referring to a feed mill or just a regular 2 flute insert end mill? A feed mill has a large radius. So it is designed to take advantage of the chip thinning principal to increase the feed rate. So you seldom take more than .060” depth of cut. In this case I’m doing .025 depth. I’m running 800 rpm and feeding at 100 inches per minute. With a three flute cutter that’s .041” per flute feed. I did all that roughing without indexing the inserts.
@@EdgePrecision Feed mill. At about 0.02 per tooth was the spot where I hit the best cut quality I could get. I was around 0.12 deep though I think so may be that was it (along with the small mill size). At those settings I was at about 85% spindle load so I didn’t feed any faster. Anyway I was just curious. Thanks for all you take the time and effort to post. I am self taught so I always learn from what you show. Take care...
With a feed mill don’t cut deeper than the radius. This is the radius in the bottom face not the corner radius. In your case I would be surprised if that was more than .050”.
12:28 Look at this bastard of a cut. Chattering like mad. I can see that poor tool visibly shaking up and down from here. How that thing managed to not snap is beyond me. If nothing else, this shows how resilient that tool is.
Hi, I have a question about the chatter, I have a HAAS minimill2 (I'm sure you're familiar with them given what's in your garage) and I sometimes get some chatter when using some RDMT type insert long tools (2tooth over 120mm long...) for deep pockets in 42CD4 type steel I tend to use for many of my projects a which point I reduce depth of cut until I get mostly rid of it but then machining takes longer, if I keep the depth of cut the tool doesn't seem to suffer that much (no insert breakage or big chipping) and part roughing is acceptable but it's just loud as hell ..... My question is does chater like that run the risk of damage to the machine, be it the linear trucks for the slide ways or the spindle bearings ? I'd rather have to wait it out then risk damage to a machine, I run this mill for my own needs, not to make money so I don't have the produce as much as possible contraint a shop might have.
To answer your question. Chatter wont really hurt the ways of the machine. But as for the spindle it's not good to let it go on for extended periods of time. There are machining strategies for lower power and smaller machines now days to help this. I would not use round inserts on this small of a machine in general unless I was just doing a finish face cut at a shallow depth. The machine just isn't heavy enough for that kind of tooling. In general for deep pockets a extended length endmill. With a short cut length and reduced shank is best. Also use adaptive type cutting strategies.
@@EdgePrecision Ok so for spindle life chatter is a No No so I guess the RDMT will be relegated to finishing profiles only. Yeah they're not really rigid machines, I knew that getting it but for the price I considered it a fair deal That said I've managed to make parts out of Toolox44 fairly easily by using high carbide end mill (Garant 203091 or LMT-FETTE DHC premium range, all off of ebay so as not to have to sell a kidney mind you), no chatter, mirror finish and good tolerances, just rather long run times dur to conservative cutting. BTW thanks for the quick reply, I adore your videos !
Your Allen key cheater bar looks just like mine! Gotta give it to you mounting at true zero tough, i would compensate in G54 and hope i didn't forget...
You know what I have found that works good for most tapping. In normal materials the speed to feed four times the pitch. So on this tap that would be at 13 threads per inch 130 rpm x four or 520 rpm. In this material I cut that in half to 260 rpm. This sort of automatically reduces the speed for standard taps. Because the lead usually increases with size witch automatically decreases the rpm at that feed. If that makes sense. Try it with a few calculations. You will see. Believe it or not you can run taps to slow. That can reduce the life of the tap as well.
I learned as a Mold Designer that a minimum of 2 screws and 2 dowels are required for locating something attached to a plate....just saying screws don't locate. Machining vibrations could potentially move the t-slotted plate.
I all the years running this machine I have never had this plate move. It is held down with 16 socket head cap screw. 16 mm in diameter tighten very tightly (as you see me doing in the video). Yes what you are saying is possible if I was to crash into it. But from normal cutting it so far has never happened. Even cutting much harder than you see in this video. For longe periods of time.
Hi Peter - does the pallet position repeat fairly accurately when switched out? I assume you wouldn’t have had to re-indicate the center position front & back as you did at the start of the video? It would be interesting to see the mechanism / locating features used to position the pallet to maintain repeatability during a pallet change.
@@chrisread3450 Yes the pallet repeats absolutely accurately. I have done many setups where I sent the pallet in and out without redefining the fixture offsets.
Hello , i have a little question . When you dry mill , how hot does the tool get , because i've tried this a couple times , but the tool gets quite hot , not sure how much can it handle . Is it safe to run if it's burning when i touch it ? I'm talking about indexable shoulder endmills /face mills
In this case the tool is to hot to touch. If I need to index inserts I cool the tool in a bucket of water. I would say if the tool doesn’t get hotter than around 400 degrees your not going to damage it. But you do have to be aware of it expanding in length if that’s critical.
No there isn’t enough to cause any problems. It’s not only backlash that could be a problem. But also pitch error. The original data sheet said the machine was accurate to .00006” in all axis. It still without the X axis scale (I had to disable it) it’s still plenty accurate. But there is a potential that there slight errors over the full travel. But you are generally not working over the full travel. So it’s really not a problem. You don’t need it. Even if you did it can be compensated for in various ways.
Right now I can still get most of the parts. The only thing with the horizontal I couldn’t get was a preamp for the digital scales. So in order to fix that I would have to upgrade the electronics. The scale itself is compatible with the new electronics. So for now I have disabled the scale on the X axis. I’m using the encoder on the servo. This is good but if the lead screw has wear it could be a little less accurate.
I know there must be a reason but I can’t figure it out. Why didn’t you rotate 90 degrees and indicate lengthwise? Looks like the indicator would reach.
@@EdgePrecision See? I knew there had to be a reason. I don’t work on horizontals and the importance of the center of rotation didn’t occur to me. I just assumed you could align and locate it in the offsets. Thanks. Really like your videos.
No I haven’t. I don’t have a good supplier for Kennametal stuff in my area. I could set up a account with them I guess. I don’t want to criticize Titan. But I will say this it appears he has a Kennametal sponsorship. So I will leave it to you to decide. Do you think his videos may be a little biased? I don’t know. I could show you cuts that look real good for say thirty seconds at a time. But are those really practical for real machine work. I think everyone has something to offer and he has done some good things. For me consistency if far more important than speed when machining.
@@EdgePrecision about 35 year ago I use Kennametal inserts with bad results then I use Sandvik good results and iskar with good results .my best ones where komet from suizerland exelent but now no posible to have here wh I am.i am impressed with the cuts titan do but have no chance to test myself will do it asap will tell you my results
@@juanyamasaki9930 I’m not saying anyone’s right or wrong. But what I have found over the years of hearing sales persons promoting their products. Under just the right conditions and material you can make things look good. Bur everyone’s machine is different so you have to experiment on your machine. So I would be interested to see your results. Thanks.
The pallet sets on six pads and located by two pins. There are air jets in the six pads that blow air during a pallet change. This so happens to work very well to keep shavings off the pads.
Peter I have a question about tapping. When you tap I've notice you rarely clean off the tap in between holes.How do you make this decisoin? I've always been weary of over cutting, I've had it happen several times. I mostly do single piece orders at the shop I work at so I always clean my tap of chips between holes. What tapping fluid do you use in the video? And what tap?
In this case I’m just starting the tap in the hole. Than I’m going to hand tap to depth. This is a larger tap and there wasn’t a lot of shavings on the tap. So I didn’t think in this case it was necessary. But if it was a tangled or clogged with shavings I would clean it. It’s always a good idea.
I can’t remember the exact video. One of the videos on the long titanium parts. The way I do it in Esprit. Because my Mazak won’t travel more than 10 mm minus in the X axis I have to rotate the C axis to do it. So what I do is draw a helix in the place I want with the same pitch as the thread. Than create a feature to follow the helix. Than use that feature to do a mill contour in the C and X axis ( polar interpolation) with the appropriate cutter comp to mill down the helix. I put it on a separate fixture offset so I can change the C zero to align it with the thread. This is very easy if you start your helix right where the thread starts in Z. Than thread with the threading tool. Mark where the thread starts with a sharply. Now run your milling tool up to the start of your profile in single block. Stop and look where your thread is in relation to your milling tool. Estimate the C axis error if any. Change the C zero of the fixture offset and rerun until it lines up. Than you can let it run the full contour. You should only need one revolution in your helix. You can put a lead out radius or line to make the blunt look the way you like. Hope that helps.
Hi, for those who are here for anvils... I thought I could mention another channel, look at Joey van der Steeg YT ,he's currently making some mini anvils !! Another world ,no machining but same passion for sharing his work . Thanks for the time and effort you put in the videos Mr Edge Precision !!
Is there a reason why you used the torque pattern you did? Seems to me that you'd want to use a diametrically opposed pattern for tightening if you don't want it to shift during torque procedures. Not saying there's anything wrong with it as the results were obvious enough, it just appeared a little counter-intuitive.
When tapping it around (off video) I had already snugged down the middle screws on each side between the t-slots I was indicating. So I kind of knew things weren’t going to move much if any. But I did tighten the first few screws across each side. But your correct I did go around to put the final toque on them. That’s why I always check.
@@EdgePrecision Oh, I see now. I was curious if there was a different procedure for this type of precision stuff, I'm always looking to learn something new if I don't understand it.
Was that a spiral flute tap? It didn't look like it, but it certainly ran right into that blind hole. Was there just plenty of depth clearance or am I missing something?
I wasn’t going to the bottom. In tougher materials I don’t like spiral flute taps. They are weaker and break easer. Unless they are large taps. This was a spiral point plug tap. I will hand tap to depth. It takes a hour to drill out a broken tap. But only five minutes to hand tap the holes to depth. Not worth it to me.
@@EdgePrecision Agreed. Hazards of working in "big boy" materials. I replaced my TM3P with a VF-4SS with a TRT210 (A&C axes) during the huge Haas sale last May. Still getting used to what this spindle is capable of.
@@Steve_Just_Steve yup. I form tap just about everything these days. I'm surprised it was a good fit for 316 though. Wow I knew they were tough (over never broken one), but that's impressive. I only keep SP and SF around for really tough stuff and hand tapping.
That magnet is rated to lift more weight than the aprox. 750 lbs of this forging. But that can be deceptive. With the machined surfaces it gets a better coupling than say a raw forged surface. Also if you are lifting round bar it’s capacity is reduced. So it pays to be carful when lifting with a magnet. You will notice in the video I never get the load above my feet or body. Just in case.
Dumb question, would some coolant help ? I know we could not see the tool path. ( soon as I typed this in,,,,, out came the coolant.. sorry guess I typed too soon. 27min. inn ???
As to the question of no coolant on the feed mill. Air or air mist would be good. But this machine won’t do that. But flood coolant or even thru coolant will fracture the inserts du to temp fluctuations of hot and cold. I have tried it it does fracture the inserts.
The most over-engineered anvil ever? I hope you plan on auctioning it for charity, but if not, well done! I hope you machine a hammer to the same precise tolerances. 😀
That kind of stuff works ok in titanium but not really in this hard steel. Besides at 1 1/2” in diameter they probably don’t reach 5.5”. Also the cost a fortune with all the inserts.
Yes a shorter tool is always better. I could have used a shorter tool to go as far as it could reach. Than finish the final depth with the longer tool. That’s what I was doing this more than one.
Try acculube oil mist spray its some really awesome stuff it will probably give you what you need here. The tool is way too long and not robust enough but it seems you need that. This really isnt the best way to make an anvil or the right material.
when osha talks about "no cheater bars" they are talking about pipe wrenches. according to osha you're not allowed to use modified tools at all (cheater bars fall under "modifications") which means basically every machinist violates osha rules every day because we modify tools to do jobs all the time.
I don’t have the tooling for plunge milling. Doing what I think you mean by dynamic milling would be difficult going 5.5” deep. And it would take just as long.
@@Noxictyz it won’t cut to center. Even if you just nibbled away from the side. It’s geometry isn’t really designed for that. I don’t think the inserts would last long. But when you got to the bottom face there might be a problem. Also with plunge milling you would still have to make a wall pass to clean up the scollops. With another cutter of some kind.
@@EdgePrecision The weight is way far from pivot point . U can see how much U are off when I cutting back side. Next time just check edge and the center U will see difference .
@@sooth6119 No as I said anything you think you see is maybe distortion from the video or camera moving (although at the time you indicate I can’t see what you are referring to). Believe me when I tell you this small amount of weight is no problem for this machine. I have had much heavier parts/fixturing on this machine. The rotary table under the pallet is larger in diameter than the pallet itself. So even if something is off center like this it isn’t a problem.
This tool can be pushed much harder than I’m doing here. At a deeper cut. I have done it. I was going for more reliable cut to focus on the camera work. And not have to worry about the tool. All this was roughed with only one index of the inserts. This is reasonably tough material.
Peter, you're too deep for that insert. Look at the insert from the side, and stay below that arch should be around 0.7mm Ap and Fz of 0.8-1.0 mm, It should make a buzzing sound rather than screeching.
At .050" its still below the tip radius on the Iscar tool (But well within the bottom face radius). I have done this depth many times in more ductile materials. The Mitsubishi cutter can go to .060" without trouble in 316 stainless. But in this harder steel I did reduce the cut to .025" (.63 mm). My next video I will show roughing the other side with a 1.0" Iscar feed mill (same insert as the other) at .050" depth no problem. Its just the hard steel and the long tool and also the 5 inserts on their 1.50" cutter. At that long of a tool there are to many inserts in contact with the cut. That tool works in soft stainless and soft steel OK but not in this harder material. Thanks for the comment.
Don't know why I'm watching this. My ears are ruined by that noise. Too many years running those types of tools in clapped out vertical CNCs, cutting forge die cavities. Retired now. Anyway, RUclips algorithm thinks I should be here. Carry on.
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I'm really glad to see an actual machining channel without marketing propaganda. Also with incredible talent. Thanks Peter. Learn a lot from you.
I agree, then consider on top that he is putting this work in only to give them to viewers. Roll model material :)
If channels didn't have marketing, you wouldn't have anything to watch. Peter is in a very unique position to be able to afford to do this. RUclips AdSense revenue doesn't pay the bills on channels will less than subscriber counts in the millions
@@xenonram Correction, if channels didn't have marketing we would ONLY have guys like Peter to watch LoL. We just wouldn't have a platform like RUclips to watch them on... and so we should accept the NYC_CNC type shills to retain a place for legit machinist like Peter, Tom Lipton, Robin Renzetti, and the like to show stuff we REALLY want to see :) I use Premium and give the $$ to RUclips directy so as to keep the advertising out of my life.
What kind of marketing propaganda do you see on other channels?
@@Shoorit Serious question? or just poking a hornets nest of hate for the monetary BS that has consumed most every content creator who has surpassed 100K subs?
Peter, your videos are never too long.
Agreed!
Try saying that when I'm watching late at night and falling asleep... its a similar effect to watching David Attenborough! 🤣
Metallurgy, machines, tooling, programming and videography all in one place. All good stuff, thank you.
Thank you as always for all the time you put into making movies for us; I've learned a lot along the way.
Same
This is my favorite machining channel for several reasons. Keep up the good work.
That’s the coolest anvil ever made!
And probably most expensive ever made :D
Peter, this is so cool. I enjoy watching and learning from someone who knows the trade. Thx
I appreciate the amount of work it is to do what you do, great JOB.
Great video, appreciate all the different angles and commentary!
I admire how Peter does the job by himself without employees
His whole story is awesome. Such a cool dude
Cant trust anyone else
probably doesnt speak spanish
@@nerxboy who cares what language they speak as long as they do a good job
@@SuperAWaC u clearly dont get my point.. ill just leave
Amazing to see the anvils emerging from that block. Initially I wondered why you were using such long tooling when you were fighting the chatter, but I see why now.
Damn. I'd love to have one of those anvil s. Thanks Peter for the vids and engineering knowledge you share.
Me too
I would as well, and my brain wants to use this as an excuse to purchase a Huge Mill, Tooling, and a block of 4140, stupid brain! :-)
Fantastic work Peter, love watching this!
Awesome.. Been waiting for this since you first pointed out those old forged pieces..
I love that machine! That is one massive chunk of steel. Thanks Peter.
I've been looking forward to this vid. Impressive work as usual.
Thanks for making time for this project Peter
We love those Mitsubishi HFM's at work. Tend to run the 1.5" 3 flute right around 1200 rpm, 100IPM, .025 doc in most any mild steel or cromoly. They seem pretty happy right there
You could do 2 hour video and I would watch it.... those anvils are going to incredible!
This is what happens when you need an anvil but also kina want a surface plate ; ) It is just amacing to see
Love it Peter let the machine do the talking!
Super video again peter! Thx! 👍👍👍
RE: Tool chatter. Seeing that's it a roughing operation, I would add varying thickness shims behind the inserts, maybe up to .002". That might help break up the tool oscillation.
Maybe even just one can stop the nasty tunes.
I've found using straight shank tools like that over 7xD I reduce the cutting speed by atleast 50% but keep the feed per tool close to 100% and ofcourse reduce depth of cut
That amazing never though of that usually forced to run way slower... Know any tricks for sidecutting with long endmills?
Enjoyed Peter!
ATB, Robin
Thanks for letting us watch over your shoulder as you work.
You're a brave man rigid tapping in that tough material. :)
Even better but I didn’t do it this time. Rigid peck tapping. In this case I was standing off the bottom .250”. I will hand tap the holes to depth.
@@EdgePrecision I thought the thread depth seemed shallow.
if the machine synchs well enough rigid tapping tough material is fine
Awesome video. Those shank type HFM cutters always vibrate like crazy. Nowadays I only use the shell mill type and vary the arbor length to suit my needs. The HFM cutters from Seco with the single sided 3 edge inserts work pretty well. I cut a lot of D2, 4140 prehard, sst 316 and 304.
Great stuff, can’t wait to see what you are going to do for 100k ;-)
Awesome video. Would love more about feeds and speeds
I have been awaiting this anvil video!
i need to get some feed mills.. although if it sounded like that id have probably shit myself and ran. although i really appreciate you sharing the sound as you worked it out. insight on the tools was great, thanks.
Some feeds mills sound awesome and smooth especially with "adaptive/dynamic" strategies. But most feed mills love abuse... I use an old Hitachi 42mm feed mill at work that will happily run 11000mm/Min at 1mm ap 27mm ae in cast iron all day (297cm^3/Min MMR!!!). Makes a hell of alot of smoke though as its a b**ch to keep the heat out.
(For the imperials those speeds were 433IPM 0.04 DOC 1.063 WOC and over 18Inches^3/Min MMR!!!)
Hi Peter,
for the ISCAR H600: You should reduce the depth of cut and give it a bit more feed. The lenght of the tool won't allow you the full potential of the insert. Also it would help to ensure that the tool never stops when changing directions while in operation. Add big radii to the toolpath.
Greetings from Germany from a ISCAR Engineer ;)
thats interesting about the 5-insert cutter.... I wonder if you could offset the inserts a little to make it like a variable flute cutter...
At 20.48 you hit it with the air , I bout shit myself. I thought the cutter blew up. You got me good.
Excellent explanations and video, thanks much.
"And were just making an anvil" made me laugh
Pete . It would be nice if you could have EDM a ruff out and saved the ruff out pieces for what ever you want next .
Way too expensive.
Every time i see you working on the mitzu i miss working on a horisontal 😁
como siempre un placer seguir las enseñanzas de tu canal..ya tenias que tener 1 millon de suscriptores..como se nota que para tener suscritores ay que hacer tonterias sin sentido...que pena..pero bueno el mundo esta asi y tenemos que seguir su camino aunque a veces sea tortuoso..un abrazo fuerte y mucha salud
you are the bill frisell of machining
Just used a very similar 3 insert mitsubishi ajx tool on inconel 625 fittings today, probably a similar insert grade too.
Após alguns dias se aventurando na metalurgia, Peter retorna com os vídeos maravilhosos de usinagem. 👏🔥Sou seu fã 🇧🇷 !
That's some serious MMR right there.
What parameters go into the decision use/not use coolant? Wondering why no coolant with the feed mill. Thanks!
Pretty much the material and how hard you are running it.
And wanting good shots for the camera haha :)
if you're using inserts with a regenerative aluminum coating you don't want to use coolant
The golden rule for coolant with carbide tooling is to use no coolant or guaranteed 100% flood. Intermittent supply of coolant to a hard working carbide insert will lead to thermal cracking and rapid tool failure. In this situation with deep cut channels, 100% coverage would be difficult to achieve, plus it is only a roughing operation so dimensional accuracy being affected by he work piece temperature is a secondary consideration.
Curious to know if you got any fretting marks on the feed mill toolholder.
Very interesting, I was running a similar but smaller (1.25” dia, 3 insert) Kennametal end mill on some 4140 steel in my little TM1 last week and had similar problems with vibration/chatter. I never did find a combination of feed/speed/DOC that worked well. The TM1 probably just wasn’t beefy enough. Anyway thanks for showing your work!
This kind of tool is a bit much for a little TM1. These feed mills need to be pushed hard to work.
@@EdgePrecision I also have a 3/4” dia Kennametal one with 2 inserts. Would you guess that might work on the TM1 if I kept the DOC fairly low? Just curious, I already finished the job that I was doing. I do very little steel on the TM1. It was an interesting experiment if nothing else, I left enough meat on the piece that it cleaned up just fine with a 1/2” end mill.
Are you referring to a feed mill or just a regular 2 flute insert end mill? A feed mill has a large radius. So it is designed to take advantage of the chip thinning principal to increase the feed rate. So you seldom take more than .060” depth of cut. In this case I’m doing .025 depth. I’m running 800 rpm and feeding at 100 inches per minute. With a three flute cutter that’s .041” per flute feed. I did all that roughing without indexing the inserts.
@@EdgePrecision Feed mill. At about 0.02 per tooth was the spot where I hit the best cut quality I could get. I was around 0.12 deep though I think so may be that was it (along with the small mill size). At those settings I was at about 85% spindle load so I didn’t feed any faster. Anyway I was just curious. Thanks for all you take the time and effort to post. I am self taught so I always learn from what you show. Take care...
With a feed mill don’t cut deeper than the radius. This is the radius in the bottom face not the corner radius. In your case I would be surprised if that was more than .050”.
12:28 Look at this bastard of a cut. Chattering like mad. I can see that poor tool visibly shaking up and down from here. How that thing managed to not snap is beyond me. If nothing else, this shows how resilient that tool is.
Just wish you had roughed it out with a band saw and sent the scrap to me..
Thanks for your time - a treat to look over your shoulder..
hard to navigate a 500 pound block through a bandsaw
Actually 750 lbs.
You tha Man Peter! Do you use plunge milling strategies for ops like this? Thx
It could work. But I have no tooling for it.
Thats a good idea actually..
Hi, I have a question about the chatter, I have a HAAS minimill2 (I'm sure you're familiar with them given what's in your garage) and I sometimes get some chatter when using some RDMT type insert long tools (2tooth over 120mm long...) for deep pockets in 42CD4 type steel I tend to use for many of my projects a which point I reduce depth of cut until I get mostly rid of it but then machining takes longer, if I keep the depth of cut the tool doesn't seem to suffer that much (no insert breakage or big chipping) and part roughing is acceptable but it's just loud as hell .....
My question is does chater like that run the risk of damage to the machine, be it the linear trucks for the slide ways or the spindle bearings ?
I'd rather have to wait it out then risk damage to a machine, I run this mill for my own needs, not to make money so I don't have the produce as much as possible contraint a shop might have.
To answer your question. Chatter wont really hurt the ways of the machine. But as for the spindle it's not good to let it go on for extended periods of time. There are machining strategies for lower power and smaller machines now days to help this. I would not use round inserts on this small of a machine in general unless I was just doing a finish face cut at a shallow depth. The machine just isn't heavy enough for that kind of tooling. In general for deep pockets a extended length endmill. With a short cut length and reduced shank is best. Also use adaptive type cutting strategies.
@@EdgePrecision
Ok so for spindle life chatter is a No No so I guess the RDMT will be relegated to finishing profiles only.
Yeah they're not really rigid machines, I knew that getting it but for the price I considered it a fair deal
That said I've managed to make parts out of Toolox44 fairly easily by using high carbide end mill (Garant 203091 or LMT-FETTE DHC premium range, all off of ebay so as not to have to sell a kidney mind you), no chatter, mirror finish and good tolerances, just rather long run times dur to conservative cutting.
BTW thanks for the quick reply, I adore your videos !
Your Allen key cheater bar looks just like mine!
Gotta give it to you mounting at true zero tough, i would compensate in G54 and hope i didn't forget...
Love these video!!
What SFM do you use for taps?
You know what I have found that works good for most tapping. In normal materials the speed to feed four times the pitch. So on this tap that would be at 13 threads per inch 130 rpm x four or 520 rpm. In this material I cut that in half to 260 rpm. This sort of automatically reduces the speed for standard taps. Because the lead usually increases with size witch automatically decreases the rpm at that feed. If that makes sense. Try it with a few calculations. You will see. Believe it or not you can run taps to slow. That can reduce the life of the tap as well.
Peter, nice work with this milling machine. Hope you can sell me just one small anvil to use at my home shop??? Thanks and peace too.
You are going to have three lucky happy subbs there!
I learned as a Mold Designer that a minimum of 2 screws and 2 dowels are required for locating something attached to a plate....just saying screws don't locate. Machining vibrations could potentially move the t-slotted plate.
I all the years running this machine I have never had this plate move. It is held down with 16 socket head cap screw. 16 mm in diameter tighten very tightly (as you see me doing in the video). Yes what you are saying is possible if I was to crash into it. But from normal cutting it so far has never happened. Even cutting much harder than you see in this video. For longe periods of time.
Hi Peter, what does the table look like under the sub plate you put on?
The top of the pallet is smooth (ground) with a 160mm grid of 16mm tapped holes.
Hi Peter - does the pallet position repeat fairly accurately when switched out? I assume you wouldn’t have had to re-indicate the center position front & back as you did at the start of the video? It would be interesting to see the mechanism / locating features used to position the pallet to maintain repeatability during a pallet change.
@@chrisread3450 Yes the pallet repeats absolutely accurately. I have done many setups where I sent the pallet in and out without redefining the fixture offsets.
Hello , i have a little question . When you dry mill , how hot does the tool get , because i've tried this a couple times , but the tool gets quite hot , not sure how much can it handle . Is it safe to run if it's burning when i touch it ? I'm talking about indexable shoulder endmills /face mills
In this case the tool is to hot to touch. If I need to index inserts I cool the tool in a bucket of water. I would say if the tool doesn’t get hotter than around 400 degrees your not going to damage it. But you do have to be aware of it expanding in length if that’s critical.
@@EdgePrecision thank you for the info .
so what kind of backlash in the screws do you have in that old HMC? is it a problem really?
No there isn’t enough to cause any problems. It’s not only backlash that could be a problem. But also pitch error. The original data sheet said the machine was accurate to .00006” in all axis. It still without the X axis scale (I had to disable it) it’s still plenty accurate. But there is a potential that there slight errors over the full travel. But you are generally not working over the full travel. So it’s really not a problem. You don’t need it. Even if you did it can be compensated for in various ways.
are you able to get spare parts for your big machines like the electronics? or you get your boards rebuilt? and mechanical parts,
Right now I can still get most of the parts. The only thing with the horizontal I couldn’t get was a preamp for the digital scales. So in order to fix that I would have to upgrade the electronics. The scale itself is compatible with the new electronics. So for now I have disabled the scale on the X axis. I’m using the encoder on the servo. This is good but if the lead screw has wear it could be a little less accurate.
Those tools sure didn't sound happy in that material. Was that using dual contact tooling?
Are you referring to the machines spindle. If so this is just a cat 50 taper. Not a big plus dual contact spindle.
I know there must be a reason but I can’t figure it out. Why didn’t you rotate 90 degrees and indicate lengthwise? Looks like the indicator would reach.
It could be done to align the rotation. But to get it centered and aligned. I would still have to indicate the center. So why not do it all at once.
@@EdgePrecision See? I knew there had to be a reason. I don’t work on horizontals and the importance of the center of rotation didn’t occur to me. I just assumed you could align and locate it in the offsets. Thanks. Really like your videos.
@@chrisc4088 Actually you are correct. You can do it all with offsets. But just to make the future setups easer to do that why I did it.
Peter,I see Titan of CNC using Kenna metal inserts at amazing rates have you tried Kennametal? Harvi
No I haven’t. I don’t have a good supplier for Kennametal stuff in my area. I could set up a account with them I guess. I don’t want to criticize Titan. But I will say this it appears he has a Kennametal sponsorship. So I will leave it to you to decide. Do you think his videos may be a little biased? I don’t know. I could show you cuts that look real good for say thirty seconds at a time. But are those really practical for real machine work. I think everyone has something to offer and he has done some good things. For me consistency if far more important than speed when machining.
@@EdgePrecision about 35 year ago I use Kennametal inserts with bad results then I use Sandvik good results and iskar with good results .my best ones where komet from suizerland exelent but now no posible to have here wh I am.i am impressed with the cuts titan do but have no chance to test myself will do it asap will tell you my results
@@EdgePrecision they are sponsored by Kennametal in fact the offer some stuff from kenna
@@EdgePrecision but you peter are a very good Machinist and very generous to share your knowledge.
@@juanyamasaki9930 I’m not saying anyone’s right or wrong. But what I have found over the years of hearing sales persons promoting their products. Under just the right conditions and material you can make things look good. Bur everyone’s machine is different so you have to experiment on your machine. So I would be interested to see your results. Thanks.
Making anvils in HARD mode! 😂
How does the pallet locate inside the machine. How are there no chips under that pallet when it is placed back in the machine. Anyone know.
The pallet sets on six pads and located by two pins. There are air jets in the six pads that blow air during a pallet change. This so happens to work very well to keep shavings off the pads.
@@EdgePrecision thanks.
Peter I have a question about tapping. When you tap I've notice you rarely clean off the tap in between holes.How do you make this decisoin? I've always been weary of over cutting, I've had it happen several times. I mostly do single piece orders at the shop I work at so I always clean my tap of chips between holes. What tapping fluid do you use in the video? And what tap?
In this case I’m just starting the tap in the hole. Than I’m going to hand tap to depth. This is a larger tap and there wasn’t a lot of shavings on the tap. So I didn’t think in this case it was necessary. But if it was a tangled or clogged with shavings I would clean it. It’s always a good idea.
in most materials flood coolant is good enough for tapping, and the flood coolant keeps the tap clean between holes
@@SuperAWaC Yeah, no. The amount of times I've heard this statement🙄. Using a good tapping fluid is 20x more time efficient than breaking a tap.
What was the video where you blunt started a thread with an endmill in the new esprit?
I can’t remember the exact video. One of the videos on the long titanium parts. The way I do it in Esprit. Because my Mazak won’t travel more than 10 mm minus in the X axis I have to rotate the C axis to do it. So what I do is draw a helix in the place I want with the same pitch as the thread. Than create a feature to follow the helix. Than use that feature to do a mill contour in the C and X axis ( polar interpolation) with the appropriate cutter comp to mill down the helix. I put it on a separate fixture offset so I can change the C zero to align it with the thread. This is very easy if you start your helix right where the thread starts in Z. Than thread with the threading tool. Mark where the thread starts with a sharply. Now run your milling tool up to the start of your profile in single block. Stop and look where your thread is in relation to your milling tool. Estimate the C axis error if any. Change the C zero of the fixture offset and rerun until it lines up. Than you can let it run the full contour. You should only need one revolution in your helix. You can put a lead out radius or line to make the blunt look the way you like. Hope that helps.
Thanks Peter!
I would love to have that big anvil... that said, there is no way, in this lifetime, I would ever be able to afford it
If I ever get them finished I’m not selling them. There going to be a give away. So everyone should have a chance.
Hi, for those who are here for anvils... I thought I could mention another channel, look at Joey van der Steeg YT ,he's currently making some mini anvils !! Another world ,no machining but same passion for sharing his work .
Thanks for the time and effort you put in the videos Mr Edge Precision !!
Is there a reason why you used the torque pattern you did? Seems to me that you'd want to use a diametrically opposed pattern for tightening if you don't want it to shift during torque procedures. Not saying there's anything wrong with it as the results were obvious enough, it just appeared a little counter-intuitive.
When tapping it around (off video) I had already snugged down the middle screws on each side between the t-slots I was indicating. So I kind of knew things weren’t going to move much if any. But I did tighten the first few screws across each side. But your correct I did go around to put the final toque on them. That’s why I always check.
@@EdgePrecision Oh, I see now. I was curious if there was a different procedure for this type of precision stuff, I'm always looking to learn something new if I don't understand it.
Is that a Kuraki horizontal?
Nevermind I should of watched video a little bit longer
Was that a spiral flute tap? It didn't look like it, but it certainly ran right into that blind hole. Was there just plenty of depth clearance or am I missing something?
I wasn’t going to the bottom. In tougher materials I don’t like spiral flute taps. They are weaker and break easer. Unless they are large taps. This was a spiral point plug tap. I will hand tap to depth. It takes a hour to drill out a broken tap. But only five minutes to hand tap the holes to depth. Not worth it to me.
@@EdgePrecision Agreed. Hazards of working in "big boy" materials. I replaced my TM3P with a VF-4SS with a TRT210 (A&C axes) during the huge Haas sale last May. Still getting used to what this spindle is capable of.
@@ksanalyticalsystems2438 I was having hell with threading 5x dia in 316 and breaking any tap with a flute, so went to form tapping with good results.
@@Steve_Just_Steve yup. I form tap just about everything these days. I'm surprised it was a good fit for 316 though. Wow I knew they were tough (over never broken one), but that's impressive. I only keep SP and SF around for really tough stuff and hand tapping.
Peter, what is the weight (aprox) of that forging and the lift capacity of the magnet.
That magnet is rated to lift more weight than the aprox. 750 lbs of this forging. But that can be deceptive. With the machined surfaces it gets a better coupling than say a raw forged surface. Also if you are lifting round bar it’s capacity is reduced. So it pays to be carful when lifting with a magnet. You will notice in the video I never get the load above my feet or body. Just in case.
Thanks for sharing!!
Why no coolant on the first cutter?
Just for the video. So you could see whats happening.
@@EdgePrecision OK thanks! I was sad for your cutting head for a sec! haha
Is that an Mh-80
What was the deepth of cut with first tool ?
.050”. This proved to deep for this material
@@EdgePrecision it's to much for that tool leinght, i would try 0.7mm and higher feed
Great video, thanks!
Dumb question, would some coolant help ? I know we could not see the tool path. ( soon as I typed this in,,,,, out came the coolant.. sorry guess I typed too soon. 27min. inn ???
As to the question of no coolant on the feed mill. Air or air mist would be good. But this machine won’t do that. But flood coolant or even thru coolant will fracture the inserts du to temp fluctuations of hot and cold. I have tried it it does fracture the inserts.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for the reply.
What cam did you use? Thanks in advance
Esprit Cam.
The most over-engineered anvil ever? I hope you plan on auctioning it for charity, but if not, well done! I hope you machine a hammer to the same precise tolerances. 😀
you need the harvey ultra 8x. thing is a beast
That kind of stuff works ok in titanium but not really in this hard steel. Besides at 1 1/2” in diameter they probably don’t reach 5.5”. Also the cost a fortune with all the inserts.
@@EdgePrecision yea you need some special tooling lol
Thank you!
Very good
could it be to much over hang
Yes a shorter tool is always better. I could have used a shorter tool to go as far as it could reach. Than finish the final depth with the longer tool. That’s what I was doing this more than one.
I've been waiting！！
Try acculube oil mist spray its some really awesome stuff it will probably give you what you need here. The tool is way too long and not robust enough but it seems you need that. This really isnt the best way to make an anvil or the right material.
It may not be the best way but it is definitely the coolest
@@alexkern9134 yup forging or even casting steel and iron is pretty hot nasty work.
Nice.
cheater bar? is that OSHA?
This is Texas. I will say no more.
that's a torque wrench in texas
Yep.👍
when osha talks about "no cheater bars" they are talking about pipe wrenches. according to osha you're not allowed to use modified tools at all (cheater bars fall under "modifications") which means basically every machinist violates osha rules every day because we modify tools to do jobs all the time.
3:00 очерёдность протяжки болтов неправильная. Нужно было крестообразно протягивать , а не против часовой стрелки
Вы имеете в виду, как я закручиваю винты?
Do you ever think "Wow I have the same job George Jetson had at Spacely Sprockets" as you go about your job every day?
Awesome.
Why not plunge mill? Should be a lot faster. At least do dynamic milling so you don't have 100% envelopment?
I don’t have the tooling for plunge milling. Doing what I think you mean by dynamic milling would be difficult going 5.5” deep. And it would take just as long.
@@EdgePrecision ah, thanks for the answer. You sure that that feed mill is incapable of plunging?
@@Noxictyz it won’t cut to center. Even if you just nibbled away from the side. It’s geometry isn’t really designed for that. I don’t think the inserts would last long. But when you got to the bottom face there might be a problem. Also with plunge milling you would still have to make a wall pass to clean up the scollops. With another cutter of some kind.
Большой вылет инструмента и слишком большой съем материала. Лучше снизить глубину реза до 0.6 мм и увеличить подачу.
Could have had it burned out to get to the rough shape. Or just used a band saw. Water jet or EDM would be way too costly.
Too heavy on the front site of the table , move it back toward center !
This amount of weight off center on this machines pellet/table isn’t a problem for this machine.
@@EdgePrecision The weight is way far from pivot point . U can see how much U are off when I cutting back side. Next time just check edge and the center U will see difference .
@@sooth6119 No as I said anything you think you see is maybe distortion from the video or camera moving (although at the time you indicate I can’t see what you are referring to). Believe me when I tell you this small amount of weight is no problem for this machine. I have had much heavier parts/fixturing on this machine. The rotary table under the pallet is larger in diameter than the pallet itself. So even if something is off center like this it isn’t a problem.
@@EdgePrecision Peace brother nice job !
try less depth and way more feed on that long iscar
This tool can be pushed much harder than I’m doing here. At a deeper cut. I have done it. I was going for more reliable cut to focus on the camera work. And not have to worry about the tool. All this was roughed with only one index of the inserts. This is reasonably tough material.
Peter, you're too deep for that insert. Look at the insert from the side, and stay below that arch should be around 0.7mm Ap and Fz of 0.8-1.0 mm, It should make a buzzing sound rather than screeching.
At .050" its still below the tip radius on the Iscar tool (But well within the bottom face radius). I have done this depth many times in more ductile materials. The Mitsubishi cutter can go to .060" without trouble in 316 stainless. But in this harder steel I did reduce the cut to .025" (.63 mm). My next video I will show roughing the other side with a 1.0" Iscar feed mill (same insert as the other) at .050" depth no problem. Its just the hard steel and the long tool and also the 5 inserts on their 1.50" cutter. At that long of a tool there are to many inserts in contact with the cut. That tool works in soft stainless and soft steel OK but not in this harder material. Thanks for the comment.
Don't know why I'm watching this. My ears are ruined by that noise. Too many years running those types of tools in clapped out vertical CNCs, cutting forge die cavities. Retired now. Anyway, RUclips algorithm thinks I should be here. Carry on.
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