I don't know if this is a controversial thing to say but it feels like alot of writing in the last 10 to 15 years suffers a bit because the writer is unable to simulate the thoughts of a person that they don't like. There seem to be alot of stories, games etc, wherein the writer was not able or willing to give a realistic portrayal of a bad/evil person, so you have a mostly grounded story about serious subject matter and the primary antagonist is a looney tunes character.
This sort of thing is largely a conscious decision of people deciding to really try and make gaming a big platform for political activism above all other considerations regarding the game and so they intentionally create a story that winds up being an expensive strawman argument.
@@MrJekken Much of the reason I found that even the Steel Dawn and Steel Reign updates of Fallout 76 couldn't save that game in my sight. [spoiler] The two Brotherhood characters are transparently caricatures of what an awful lot of people are led to think of Democrats and Republicans in the street in the US, the "Democrat" (the Paladin Rahmani character) portrayed as this oh-so-compassionate, social maverick that just wants to help the people of Appalachia (but can't pronounce 'Appalachia' correctly), the "Republican" (Knight Shin) portrayed as this AJ squared away, always angry (cartoonishly so) "jarhead" who will never question the orders of command back home in CA and obviously doesn't think for himself. You're supposed to choose which will lead the chapter in Appalachia though, of course, the choice doesn't matter any more than any other choice you'll supposedly make because nothing was developed as an alternative for everything from choosing to stop or not Rahmani from destroying the communication array that will put them back in touch with command (would have been interesting to see what came of that if anything had) to which you choose to lead the chapter.[/spoiler] And I was thinking to myself, "If I wanted to hear this crap, I'd just log onto the Internet. I've been hearing it for 60 years." Best response I could come up with was to roll my eyes and sigh. The game also lends credence to Noah Jervais' observation that postapocalyptic games from Fallout to Far Cry reflect the fact that we're "anxious" that the US is tearing itself apart and can't construct a believable story about putting it back together again. It's perfectly fine by me if developers want to try and tackle societal issues maturely and with unification in mind, but if they try to convince me who to vote for, it won't work because they're obviously just as much into mud slinging as the politicians. Dave Berry and JibJab, et alia, have lampooned the overarching narrative about us, Berry writing, "Do we truly believe that ALL red-state residents are ignorant racist fascist knuckle-dragging NASCAR-obsessed cousin-marrying roadkill-eating tobacco-juice-dribbling gun-fondling religious fanatic rednecks; or that ALL blue-state residents are godless unpatriotic pierced-nose Volvo-driving France-loving left-wing communist latte-sucking tofu-chomping holistic-wacko neurotic vegan weenie perverts?" Well, that's how we're generally being portrayed in the vast majority of media, including video games. Underscores just how immature this country really is. I'll give developers credit where credit is due, however. Many are, at least, trying to portray human beings as human beings as opposed to stereotypes at the moment. That has to count for something. That's much of the reason why I think the backstory, at least, of Fallout 76 is actually pretty good. The Appalachian survivors are predominately portrayed with respect as human beings with all the foibles and achille's heels of human beings as opposed to caricatures and stereotypes. But that's background. The foreground is quite a bit different.
@@lrinfiI’d say it’s a pretty big stretch to compare that to democrats vs republicans. It’s a pretty classic “dogmatic military adherent vs. soft-hearted altruist” trope that has existed for a long, long time. Is it a very original take on the trope in Fo76? No. That’s Bethesda for you, though. Either way, this feels more like overlaying current social politics onto something that was meant to be a commentary purely on military dogma vs. empathy for the people they’re supposed to be fighting for. It just feels like you could look back at any story of clashing dogmatic and iconoclastic military doctrine and apply this logic to it. The association with the dogmatics as republicans and democrats altruists is in itself forcing modern US politics onto something that didn’t intentionally contain them. Also, black and white, good vs. evil storytelling is as old as storytelling itself. There are examples of all-too-blatant insertions of modern, two-party political debate into stories. I agree. As a result, though, people are also seeing it where it’s not really happening.
At 25 I'm fairly young, but even I have realized that locking yourself away from other peoples POV makes you a worse person. I learned that listening to one another is really important in general for a community / society. You dont have to copy someone elses opinion or stance just because you listen to them but it likely will help you bolster your own. Believe it or not, some of the most fruitful conversations I had were with people who disagreed with me, I learned a lot from them.
The opposite is a similar risk. Youth doesn't normally result in you exposing yourself to holding too much prejudice towards others, but *too little* - wariness is something learned with age. I'd strongly recommend making sure to learn from the negatives of your experiences as well as the good.
Yeah, I think anyone asserting "just by talking about it, harm has been done" might be fundamentally misunderstanding the role communication and understanding has to do in human culture and learning. Like yes, a safety manual explaining common situations that hurt people can be examined maliciously to learn ways to intentionally hurt people. But for _most_ people checking that information, it is going to be used to help protect people from things they may have simply not known or encountered or understood or they just plain forgot. And by putting it up for discussion, there's a chance that weak points might be analyzed from multiple viewpoints so that people figure out a better way to get the useful information across that is less likely to be used for home. Security or safety by obscuring is usually not very safe or secure at all.
Yeah, preventing people from talking about stuff is basically preventing people from learning. We need to be able to voice our opinions and stuff or else we never really open ourselves up to counter arguments and criticism that can help us see the flaws in our own thinking.
The people who claim this aren't interested in helping or protecting people, they are interested in the tiny bit of power they can feel from shutting people up.
@@hoonaignachowanehaOr so long as it does not personally affect them or their way of living, they’re content to live comfortably with their heads down.
The people who do this stuff are already positive they have the correct ideas, or they only believe in power politics, not truth and learning and debate.
Asking this from people on the Internet can be like hoping you'll find money on the street. In my experience, the vast majority of people do not want to have a discussion. They want to give their opinion, chalk it up as fact and either fight over it or ignore anything to the contrary. At best, I think you can learn from the POV of others. But pushing back in any way just leads to a bad time. Treasure those rare moments when the response actually seems reasonable, as opposed to instantly combative.
I had customers I worked with for a decade + and couldnt remember their names. I remembered so many details about them but not the names. And then after a decade its too late to ask so I had to pray it never came up that I needed their name lol.
I had two students one semester. One was a pale, blond, blue-eyed Norwegian guy, powerlifter build. Next to him sat the other, a thin, short-haired black guy. Both students names started with the same letter, and I constantly mixed them up. Same-firstletter names are my kryptonite.
Tim thank you so much for this video. "People feel judged when you ask them why they like something." This is also why I have almost completely stopped having conversations with people anymore. No one understands the subtleties of conversation anymore, everyone's put for the gotcha moment to prove the other wrong. I try to learn more about things, like you said "I couldn't get past an hour in this game why did YOU like it?" Then maybe I can see the game differently and enjoy it also. Another part of conversation people don't appreciate anymore is silence. The power that a 10 second pause can have during a speech is powerful, it doesn't have to be filled with applause or cheers. Thank you again, Tim. Your wisdom is far reaching and I appreciate these videos every day.
I actually had that issue with Pillars of Eternity. I love CRPGs but, for reasons too long to document here, I think it has a slow start that is hard to engage with. I gave it up after 30 minutes. Friend of mine loved it and said "No, stick with it. Around 8-10 hours in it gets really good." He was totally right and I would have missed out if I had stuck by my initial reaction. My grandpa was a master of the long pause. I've come to associate it with people who are carefully considering what you have said before responding and it's disconcerting that this has been left behind. So many people listen to respond rather than to understand, and some people are downright uncomfortable with silence.
I wanted to add my two cents and mention that I've had moments where someone I'm talking to immediately gets defensive upon me asking a question (especially through the Internet), but instead of stopping the conversation, I've stuck around and kept talking to them in a calm manner. The results vary and I don't have hard numbers, but a good amount of people actually put their guard down and started to talk back in good faith. It seems some people have just been burned by past experiences and need to make sure you aren't a "threat" to them.
Aristotle may not have said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" But it's still a damn good quote
Thanks Tim for talking about this. This really explains possible reasons why some recent games could have narrative issues and why different POV is important for good storytelling.
I pretty much agree with all that's said one other thing that ive noticed is that irl, any two people tend to trust each other more compared to online. Online everything is out and exposed and anyone can chime in - even a mean person. So generally online no one really trusts anyone - or at least a lot less - and so that leads to people assuming the worst more often. In practice ive found it helpful to not only try to understand other peoples point of view - but also try to quickly figure out how open they are to understanding my point of view. If I sense that they generally wont be open to my questions I don't go probing because a) they are just gonna assume the worst of my intentions and b) if they *never* try to understand anyone else their opinions are probably not as nuanced as my - so my time is much better spent finding someone else to have a discussion with. Now, Im not advocating for only interacting with those you agree with cause a) that leads to a less nuanced outlook and b) that's not even really that possible in the real world Just gotta find the right people that want to have discussions that can be rare sadly sometimes tho, so sometimes an alternative is to find two people that have the same opinion that I don't understand and see how they discuss it to each other - and maybe I can gleam understandings and answer my questions with out directly engaging. This approach has hurt me in the past tho cause im trans and I used to listen to the opinions of transphobes to see where they are coming from - and that kinda just made me more depressed - so dont recommend it take this piece of advice to the extreme.
I always try to rememeber the other person I'm talking to has lived a life full of experiences, more or less just as many as you, and there is no way to experience their life, and they cant experience yours. You have to, at the very least find some sort of connection, before you can even start to dissect the actual dissagreement at hand.
That is a needless process that leaves you with a foundation of mud. You don't have the time to do that with every person, and even then people do lie to you and/or to themselves. Focus on what is said, what is done and behavioral patterns. Focus on logic, correctness, reality, truth. In short: I don't need to hear your life story if you tell me 2+2=5. The reason why you claimed that is irrelevant to the fact that it's false. At best I can tell you where you went wrong with the calculation, but I won't be convinced to attain some ambiguous "we don't know" stance, compromising truth for the sake of fake empathy.
I also struggle with names, but it is part of my thinking pattern. To name something as it names itself is a sign of respect, or respecting the system. If a corporation names one of their product X, and I do not respect the brand or the product, I won't name it X. Or I just tend to forget. Or I use something jokingly. I call the Wildlands game for example "Shoot." "Want to play Shoot?" As of animal names, they are literally made up and animals do not care. As of human names, well, that's a little different. A basic level of hospitality is adequate, so instead of saying the name wrong, I prefer to phrase my sentences differently as to avoid saying the name at all. But if you want to mock someone or something, intentionally saying the wrong name is effective. It's quite funny too. As of pronouns: Male: He. Female: She. Object: It. Plural: Them. Unknown gender: "He or she" or just use whatever you think is more likely fitting. Talking about abstract persons (like "the player"): He. Why? Because I am male, and the text is not of high importance. If you try to appease people on an ideological basis, you can only lose. You exposed a vulnerability to vicious people who will leverage it to control you as much as possible.
I think I can see why some folks would push back against the idea of people trying to understand other opinions because it is a trend on some bad faith actors to ask "why" for the purposes of trolling/engagement farming/just tying up people's energy and focus, most notably in social media. So again, I know you had your reasons to shut down your social accounts but here's another reason for me to consider leaving it. To your point of writing convincing antagonists/villains, I'm reminded of a wrestling adage that effective villains must believe they are justified in their actions to do a good in their view. It requires a shift in perspective. Keeping it in a wrestling context, a villain champion has just attacked a challenger with a weapon. Most wrestling rules require the wrestlers fight without weapons, additionally, using a weapon is a disqualifying tactic that ends a match immediately if caught by the official in charge, as well as championships normally can not change if the champion loses by disqualification. So a villain champion sees they are having trouble with their challenger, values being the champion more so than being the winner and uses a weapon or other illegal hold, this will make future challengers wary and the champion keeps their championship. The fans of the challenger may cry out, "Why would the champion do this?" because they expected a fair contest but not everyone holds the same values and the villain's fans may laud the villain for being smart and retaining the championship.
I think the ability to have a neutral opinion is so valuable. Like you said about religion, I’m not very into it, but I know it’s very valuable for some, and I certainly don’t think lesser of somebody for it
I mean. If you want some insight into it, you need to stop thinking of religion as dogma, because the dogma... everyone hates it, including the people who preach it. It also isn't part of any actual religion. The core of it is spirituality. That... well, maybe I'll explain it another time.
Hey, Tim! I started following you after I saw the TV version of fallout. I’m not a gamer, but I love your videos, and I find them quite calming. I also want to thank you for this particular video, because I would like to try my hand at writing, and POV is extremely important. Thanks again for all your videos!💕
This reminds me of the video you made where you talked about either Crits or chance in fallout i believe. Where despite the math saying the percentage is correct they felt like they were not getting fair enough rolls.
One of my favorite things that happens on RUclips / internet is learning a stranger's perspective on something I don't really like. Or a new, unique perspective on something I thought I already understood. I love it when someone can reveal a layer of something I didn't understand before, or when someone can show me why something I had written off as "not for me" is actually something I enjoy. Doesn't always happen, there are still things I dislike. But it's nice when it does, more people should operate like this. Not I'm search of the flaws but in search of the beauty in everything. Every game / movie / book / piece of art is *someone's* favorite. And sometimes, you can learn about yourself if you find out why it's their favorite.
Thank you for addressing the anger that comes about when attempting to investigate and explain the viewpoints behind controversial figures. A political commentator I deeply admire and who sadly passed in 2020 had the best insight into this in my opinion. Being that, in it's most distilled form. "Explanation and investigation does not equal justification." Which in the current social climate, alongside individual stubbornness. Can often become lost in translation or just omitted in general.
Funnily enough, getting defensive from the question "Why?" came up earlier today for me. It could be just be curiosity, but it seems like an increasing amount of people are using it to be confrontational without actually trying to learn/understand another person's point of view.
I so resonated with all your tales of information processing challenges because I live similar ones every day and have done my whole life! How it works for me is that I feel this as a not quite developed part of my being - at least it doesn't flow easily and instinctively - and so I try extra hard to apply myself to analysing communication, whether taking it in or giving it out. Feeling misunderstood hits a tender spot in me because damn it, I work so hard to be clear about things and it feels sometimes like it's still not enough! How much is enough until it's not your fault anymore for not being sufficiently clear?! Sometimes the other person isn't communicating in good faith and then I'm OK with letting it go and moving on with my day, but humans are complex and there are a whole range of nuanced layers to navigate that aren't quite at that obvious one. I *have* learned that if someone I care about takes offense at a question I've asked for clarity, it may be because they are emotionally invested in what they are saying and therefore sensitive themselves to perceived criticism. Am I wrong for my objective analysis? Absolutely not, but it's not always the most effective response for emotional relationship maintenance. When your and their insecurities rub up against each other you have to take at least some responsibility for appropriate choices. As for the rest of the world... eh, who the fuck knows what's going on inside them? I just stumble through each interaction and try to expand, tweak or refine my perspective as best I can that particular day. 😅
Gods this resonates on such a deep level for me as a neurodivergent person. I’m just over here trying to understand and learn from people. ;.; I have the name trouble too. Especially with songs! Also trouble with pronouns. I’ve accidentally used like three different sets for my husband of 18 years. XD
I was Sergeant in the Army before I became a manager in the corporate world. In both cases I had deal with the people I was entrusted with to effectively and consistently accomplish tasks and build systems. The best outcomes happened when I was able to relinquish control and tap the unique talents of the people I had, rather than wish for the 'dream team' that I didn't have. That took, as you say, understanding people deeply enough to not only find their skills, but to determine what motivates them. I credit the Army with really teaching me this. Given the nature of combat and casualties, everyone cross trains each other's jobs, but also leaders are taught to accomplish whatever mission they have with the people at hand, rather than waiting for an ideal situation to present itself. Time, in military terms, can mean the difference between success and failure against your enemy, and I expect the corollary to that in the business world would be time to market = success/failure given a window of opportunity. That means, surprisingly to many people, an Army leader has to be creative on the fly (I have to laugh when people think the military is a bunch of automatons). This goes back to the old saying, "never judge a book by its cover."
Life hack for you, Tim: You can pretend the name thing IS a senior moment. It gets more and more plausible with time. Maybe people will take it easier then.
Honestly it's so nice to go through this video and catch so many commonalities in thought process....because often it feels like everyone I run into, both internet and in person, doesn't seem to share the desire to understand or investigate. So thanks for putting this out there, I wish more people shared this thought process and were a bit slower to jump to conclusions and tribalism.
These videos you've made are amazing for people interested in game development, but I must say, as some nerd that works in a dental office, some of these videos are chock-full of great life advice in general. Thank you for all you do, Tim.
The best thing about your discussions, lectures, advice (whatever you want to call these talks) is that you have nuance and a deeper logic than just a one-dimensional mind set. Always appreciate the insight you share. Thanks.
I've learned the ego really doesn't like to be questioned, as it takes it as being challenged. Which I'm not judging people for it, as we all have it in us, but it's useful to know what's going on in people. A really great book on it is "Dinosaur Brains", which was recommended in "The Pragmatic Programmer".
11:25 Individual bathrooms do exist in Australia but they’re quite rare. The main place you see them are gold class cinema, and even then only new ones.
"Consider the other POV" and "understand how to have a discussion" are by far the most crucial skills to have in game development, and it's such a shame that so few have those skills. My biggest pet peeve is when you present your stance, and the response is "no, you're wrong" with zero rationale or examples. I instantly know that person has no idea what they're talking about, precisely because anyone that does will always have very real logic to backup their belief. And more often than not, I find that "the most knowledgeable" are also the most excited to dive into discussion. And the kicker is, it's never about who's right or wrong. It's about testing and developing heuristics / theories that may work in one genre or context, even though they may fail utterly in another. One controversial example is "Dark Souls should add an easy mode". That's a stance I strongly support, albeit, maybe not to the extent of a fully fledged difficulty mode. The easiest method as I see it, would be to add cheat codes to the game, which can only be activated during the character creation screen, which would in turn lock that character into a permanent "offline mode". It can be a complex topic, since you're dealing with a feature that goes beyond the core audience, which will also require additional development time. And so the question is ultimately - "will that development time be worth the potential growth in audience?". A topic like that very easily receives "stone wall" responses, with big and loud graffiti written right across it. A wall that won't ever move, bend, or break.
Every time I watch one of your videos I believe more and more in how good of a person you are. I enjoy having in-depth discussions with people on why they believe the way they do. But it's rare that I can encounter someone that doesn't get defensive. I would love to sit on a porch and just have an hours-long conversation with you. I could only imagine the wisdom that would come forth.
I've watched some lets plays done by therapist. And what fascinated me the most is that when he approaches an NPC he always goes: curiosity before judgement, we need to hear their point of view first, no matter how unhinged NPC is presented to player. I think all my experiences in life will prevent me from having an approach like this but watching those videos made it kind of stuck in my head so its doing something to my worldview in background I guess. And Tim is saying the same thing here so... I guess, I agree. Its important to always understand other person's point of view.
I’ve seen nearly every angle of people trying and failing to see other povs. Or attacking that way or both. If you’re wondering how/why this goes wrong for you so often and you want my thoughts I might suggest a few conmon points of major failure: Read the room. It’s it a friend you know very well or are you ambushing someone whose having a bad day and is going to be defensive by default? Obviously you’re going to think you’re not ambushing someone but you have to try to assess from their shoes. This is hard for most people to do I’ve heard. An ambush is like you lure someone into a well crafted trapped map and ambush them with a rpg boss fight. Since you made the traps, you know where to avoid walking. It’s no big deal. The other person is panicked and in an unexpected situation. What else did they miss? This unexpected boss fight happened did they also steal my gear? Who knows. They don’t even know where the doors to leave are. Just fog of war. No information. So to avoid this kind of panic you could try taking the first hit. Say simmering that makes you vulnerable. You don’t like super Mario? It took me 10 hours to beat the first level but I grew to like it. What aspects did you struggle with? See, rather than showing up as a blank wall there by saying “how could you not like super mario” it has a tension diffusing point that I was comically bad at an easy part. Now instead of having to guess if you’re walking into a blind boss fight, you can read the vibe a bit and be like “oh I didn’t have that issue. I just don’t like how slippery mario feels”. Now you have an angle to start talking on. And it’s not a one aided interrogation. Framing conversations like this solves 95% of the problems of what I understood in your original opening statement. I know because I used to have the same problems. And I see this daily with all the engineers I work with. People just feeling like they have to hold all the power and all the keys and control/dominate the conversation to never look weak. But they somehow don’t piece together what it’s like being in the other side of that.
Oh man. I'm exactly the same! I often actually look for things that I disagree with people, because I find conversations about those the most interesting. And I have had it happen many times that the other person thinks that I'm attacking their point of view, when I'm actually excited more than anything. Same thing with letting people speak and not interupting when they are making a point has often been misunderstood as agreeing. I once listened to this one guy who wanted to get into politics, and his big campaign promise was to deport everyone that committed a crime. After going over his plan he ended that it's so nice that you agree, because a lot of other people have not. And I was like "wait, wh? NO!"
Great video. First: don’t feel alone on the names things. I don’t misremember them - I don’t remember them at all at times. Complete brain lock on names. “He’s gay, pudgy, bulemic, balding, piano, windshield wiper glasses, Donald Duck costume on stage, famous songs are…I can picture the album cover with his ridiculous platform shoes…”. But can’t come up with the album name, his name (Elton John) - my brain can’t access where it stores names. And it’s not some recent thing - this exact episode was from almost 40 year ago with the game Scattergories. Everyone at the gaming convention calls to me by name, and…I know them…but I have to work hard to pound a name into my brain. Glitched sector on the organic hard disk? Shrug. Second: They. Brute force it until you get used to saying it. It actually is correct usage, it just fell out of usage and became uncommon to the point we perceive it as only plural. The unnamed (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) writer: She has some serious problems, what with denouncing that poor woman at the Olympics who comes from a country where she might well get murdered if she was actually trans. Oddly, several of her characters transgendered (temporarily) in her novels. Several trans-specied (if that’s a word, which auto-correct is having conniptions over). She’s simply rejecting the concept of people transitioning to another gender (which is a whole conversation in itself). But the whole “uncomfortable” thing can be illustrated in a way that will make them feel uncomfortable by pointing out that white people were “uncomfortable” with black people using the same restroom as them at one time (well, some still do, I imagine). Point of view: Any wannabe writer needs to pay close attention to your final point - you need to understand other points of views to write characters. The best villains are nuanced - they feel justified in what they are doing. Not all people think the same way as you - they come from different backgrounds, cultures, experiences. Religions: all that art history I had to study. To properly understand lots of it and its context, I had to learn Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox), Zoroastrian, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhism, animism, Greek and Roman pantheons (and the differences), Celtic, and various and sundry “pagan” religions. And I was raised on Greek and Norse mythology anyway. I knew that Namtar (in Dragon Wars) wasn’t just “Ratman” spelled backwards. You never when some odd bit of trivia will pay off in writing.
I wish more people would think like this and stop trying to prove everyone else is evil, there is always a reason the way someone thinks or feels the way they do and you might see it as wrong but telling them they are evil or calling them things that imply that does not help if anything it can often just confirm their views.
The religion part particularly is true. I am an atheist who is really chill (I outgrew my edgy teenage atheism a long time ago), but some people assume you are anti-religion the second they hear atheist. The worst was the philosophy class I took as an elective in college. The teacher asked who was religious and who was atheist. Of course I raised my hand and for the rest of the semester I had nothing but problems from this instructor. I have gotten along really well with virtually every instructor I have had but this instructor immediately had it out for me the second I mentioned I was atheist (per his asking!!!). Eventually I had to write an e-mail and politely ask him to knock it off, if I was the type of person to complain to hr I probably could have got him fired but I didnt want that I just wanted him to stop treating me like garbage in front of the whole class just because of his assumptions he made up in his own head about who I am.
Growing up almost entirely socially isolated, probing the perspectives of others has always been a keen interest of mine. One of the most important conclusions I've reached is that sooo many problems in the world are caused by an inability or unwillingness for people to understand that two conflicting perspectives can both be right at the same time.
I think when trying to understand someone else's POV, its the perfect time to deploy a disarming compliment to subconsciously let the other person know that you're not coming at them from a point of conflict. Something like "I really love the medieval theme of this pizza restaurant. What was the inspiration for that?" is generally a lot more palatable to the average person than, "Why'd you name this place Round Table?" And as for the name thing, I feel you there. Its a running joke in my family that no one get a name right the first go. Something about big families I think. My dad's got 6 siblings and his parents could never keep anyone's names straight, up to the point that my grandfather would call my dad the dog's name sometimes.
Maybe we should bring back the use of "one" as a pronoun. 👑 I have a problem with remembering proper nouns too - it's almost like there's an entirely different place they get filed in the brain but it's a dilapidated part of my mind. Same with trying to remember sequences of things. Visuo-spatial stuff there's no problem and in fact can seem to remember those vividly for life. Part of me thinks that it's likely a mental architecture that happens to be suited for creative or problem solving skills but that could be just me trying to make lemonade from the lemon I have between the ears.
My method of trying to understand other people is the same, i ask a lot about the 'why do you feel that x'. The hardest part for me about that, is to find the point in which i'm asking so much they might think i'm just being rethorical, instead of showing genuine curiosity for their pov And much like tim said, but not only for the games industry; that's a valuable skill when working with teams in many areas
Yeah, after playing and watching different games, I begin to notice different designs which originate from different PoVs. That's why when I see and or watch new games especially ones outside my favorite genres, I refrain myself from closing my mind but instead open my mind to see why they made such games. They may not always be right but at least I could learn something.
Okay this is going to be a little philosophical but in essence, generally no one wants to be a bad person and thinks their actions are justified. So to effectivly stop someone from doing something I dislike its important to understand why they do it in the first place. Some people may have less trouble with understanding someone elses POV but its something thats learnable with good observation and questions.
I have the same issue with people's names, some I am never able to remember their name on the first try but especially if I haven't talked to that person for a while!
Loved this video, if I could have one superpower being able to read people's thoughts so I can more easily understand their POV would probably be ontop the list for many of the reasons discussed in this video lol. It would be immeasurably helpful
Also pro tip for anyone struggling with pronoun usage in their writing: Write stories from the POV of animals. You'll find yourself often using "it" "they" "them" etcetera & it helps you wiggle out of the mentality of more traditional English pronoun useage, personally that's what I credit the most for not running into any issues related to gender as far as my writing is concerned.
"The player walks up on the monster and they use the ability" could definitely be a bit confusing, especially if you're looking at rules when you're trying to get clarification about something. I find myself rewriting sentences for gender neutrality, for example "The player uses their ability when they walk up to the monster" is neutral and not ambiguous in any way.
The problem is when people don't actually have a point of view about something per se. They just want to get away with something that other people don't want them to do. Most criminals are like that. You can ask them why they felt like they deserved to steal something, or rip someone off in some way, for example. They can give you an excuse, but it's not really a point of view. People just decide that they deserve to do something or hurt someone. It's a fundamental mindset and not really a point of view. People are in prison precisely because we can look at a situation from their point of view and say without any doubt that we wouldn't have done the same thing.
content vs title - as I understand it, memory for names is related to the area of adhd. I can remember someone's whole life story before I remember their name. Sing a whole song but not know the name of the song or the band name. Was worse in the time before searching up songs on the internet.
I try to let people like stuff without having to name a reason. I think its nice to like stuff. I think in Germany they have a phrase like 'silence is high praise' or something. Cus they can name their complaints but when its good everyone kinda shuts up. Its harder to understand WHY that way, but I think its just how a lot of people are.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people have beliefs based on social queues instead of informed opinions or a contiguous philosophy. They will just adopt whatever belief they were raised around or that was shared by their friend group. It’s why you get a lot of people who will fight for the rights of one group and then disparage the same rights of another simply based on social grouping. It happens from both sides and is really annoying to try to maneuver the mind field of their brain.
People are supposed to like political candidates? I thought everybody just voted for whoever had the highest change of making sure the person they dislike the most lost.
@@GAGONMYCOREYTrump lost the popular vote, every republican president since like Nixon has relied on voter suppression tactics as well as electorate votes to win elections. Bush Jr even did election fraud with the help of Roger Stone and the Brooks Brothers Riot.
That is a common problem of First Past the Post voting systems. Ranked Choice voting and also proportional systems (We use MMP in NZ) largely avoid that.
@@peterd9698 Oh, but it's so much worse than a difference in electoral systems in the US. Changing that up could help a little...maybe...but won't come close to resolving the real issue here. "Inverted totalitarianism reverses things. It is all politics all of the time but a politics largely untempered by the political. Party squabbles are occasionally on public display, and there is a frantic and continuous politics among factions of the party, interest groups, competing corporate powers, and rival media concerns. And there is, of course, the culminating moment of national elections when the attention of the nation is required to _make a choice of personalities rather than a choice between alternatives_ . What is absent is the political, the commitment to finding where the common good lies amidst the welter of well-financed, highly organized, single-minded interests rabidly seeking governmental favors and overwhelming the practices of representative government and public administration with a sea of cash." -- Sheldon Wolin, 'Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism'
No, Tim! Just tell me that i am always right! (there is no even theoretical possibility of me being always right, or you knowing about it, but it is irrelevant)
I think that certain words and language can have a subtle difference in meaning depending if you read it or say it. It also depends on how it is said. When you talk in your videos, I feel like I get your POV quite well, in part because you explain things well, but also because of you demeanor and that you are expressive when you talk. But there is also a factor of: Do I actually understand your POV, or is there a detail I'm not quite understanding and I just feel like that? We had a slight disagreement once regarding "influence", I think if we had an actual talking conversation, I feel like we would agree. I'm not sure we had a different POV in those comments. I think it's not always just about POV and seeing things differently, because communication is hard.
i saw many rpg manuals that names the characters in examples, so they dont need an ambigous gender, that also helps to distinguish the actor and the target off the action
I had a friend like this when I was growing up, I'd ask him why he liked something, and he'd immediately assume I'm criticizing and get defensive, where most of the time I was just curious about the thing in question.
Yes! I'm so the same with the memory thing. I think I inherited it from my mum. All growing up I was frequently called by my brothers name or my brother by my dad's name, we were all used to it so it was just funny. I can even struggle with names I came up with like when I'm doing some programming, I constantly forget names of functions, files or programmes.
I heard a great comment ages ago that said basically nowadays believe put to much of their own identity into their opinions. So when those are challenged they go completely defensive. People should be more open to changing opinions, and then not get judged on doing so. Scientifically you are suppose to change your views based on new evidences. But nowadays people set up camp and never change.
A simple example of different POV I use sometimes as an example, is breakfast believe it or not 😅. Some people eat American Breakfast and some people eat Continental Breakfast. From your POV you might like one more than the other. Both are good btw 😁
I get flack from people when I try and see something from the point of view of someone I disagree with. It's called empathy. I refused to think people I disagree with are evil. I might think their point of view is wrong, dumb even. But I refuse to hate them. And I am also old, they is and always will be plural in my head.
I am the same with names Tim I’ve had friends and work colleagues for years who I can not remember their last names if my life depended on it. So much so that I just ended up limiting the amount of people I interact with because I’m tired of offending people by not knowing their name and them thinking it’s personal.
Perhaps part of the problem is that by asking questions you imply that they must have deliberate reasons for such a decision. But they could only make that decision based on feelings, and they may interpret your question as an attack. In the case of political questions. People there are very tight up into chosen ideologies and questioning it will be very painful for them
No matter why you play Chess, you're competitive, you like solving complexity, you think pieces look cool... You'll always have to play the other player's moves in your head. Thanks for your videos!
I couldn't help but laugh when you said some people think you are attacking them when asking questions.. Ain't that the truth. It's hard to engage in conversion mostly on the internet.
I'm getting fucking tired of people acting like the Pandemic was such a rights grab when it fucking wasn't. No one was forced to stay home and no one was forced to wear a mask. Businesses requiring masks doesn't impeded your fucking rights. It's the same requirement as having to wear shoes and a shirt to be a patron of most establishments. Privately owned businesses have no obligation to you what so ever. they aren't publicly owned. So they get to make the rules on their land that they own. And to reduce their workers from dying they asked people like you to just wear a fucking mask and social distance. And that was too much for your peanut fuck brain.
If you won’t review video games, how about board games? Mousetrap, operation, or break the ice. That would be fun to see. I’d much rather see you break down dnd modules piece by piece, but maybe board games would work for a more general audience.
Hi Tom, my poor memory for names also gets me in trouble. Being able to write deep, believable, characters the writer doesn’t agree seems like it’s more and more a lost skill, or at least edited out by committee before we the audience/players get to see it.
There is a lot of people that don't *want* to understand the other, they want want to be right. This inability to listen to other POV lead only to disaster. Look at Ubisoft and how not listening can lead a Titanic corp into the iceberg.
I agree people don't want to understand each other is the problem but i disagree that the primary reason is that they want to be right is the reason. I think that in most cases its that trying to understand other people make the person trying to understand vulnerable. The internet is much less of a safe place for vulnerability than the real world - so people learn that being vulnerable is terrible. So they stop trying to understand other people cause other wise those other people will hurt them. Then that effect carries over to the real world. People become afraid to understand others online and then are afraid to understand each other irl. Then you come to the slow collapse of trust and increases of ignorance that we have seen over the last tens of years.
@@christophergritti9873, this often also comes from friends. Basically, folks will pick a tribe and stick to it no matter what happens. This includes hating the opposing tribe(s).
Obviously a shot in the dark, but I wonder if the girl who hates college went to Digipen lol. I know two dropouts and one who graduated valedictorian in her class and all three of them said it was a traumatic and awful learning environment.
![Yeat & Summrs - GO2WORK [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NEFEwfPcXRA/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know if this is a controversial thing to say but it feels like alot of writing in the last 10 to 15 years suffers a bit because the writer is unable to simulate the thoughts of a person that they don't like. There seem to be alot of stories, games etc, wherein the writer was not able or willing to give a realistic portrayal of a bad/evil person, so you have a mostly grounded story about serious subject matter and the primary antagonist is a looney tunes character.
This sort of thing is largely a conscious decision of people deciding to really try and make gaming a big platform for political activism above all other considerations regarding the game and so they intentionally create a story that winds up being an expensive strawman argument.
@@MrJekken Much of the reason I found that even the Steel Dawn and Steel Reign updates of Fallout 76 couldn't save that game in my sight. [spoiler] The two Brotherhood characters are transparently caricatures of what an awful lot of people are led to think of Democrats and Republicans in the street in the US, the "Democrat" (the Paladin Rahmani character) portrayed as this oh-so-compassionate, social maverick that just wants to help the people of Appalachia (but can't pronounce 'Appalachia' correctly), the "Republican" (Knight Shin) portrayed as this AJ squared away, always angry (cartoonishly so) "jarhead" who will never question the orders of command back home in CA and obviously doesn't think for himself. You're supposed to choose which will lead the chapter in Appalachia though, of course, the choice doesn't matter any more than any other choice you'll supposedly make because nothing was developed as an alternative for everything from choosing to stop or not Rahmani from destroying the communication array that will put them back in touch with command (would have been interesting to see what came of that if anything had) to which you choose to lead the chapter.[/spoiler] And I was thinking to myself, "If I wanted to hear this crap, I'd just log onto the Internet. I've been hearing it for 60 years." Best response I could come up with was to roll my eyes and sigh. The game also lends credence to Noah Jervais' observation that postapocalyptic games from Fallout to Far Cry reflect the fact that we're "anxious" that the US is tearing itself apart and can't construct a believable story about putting it back together again.
It's perfectly fine by me if developers want to try and tackle societal issues maturely and with unification in mind, but if they try to convince me who to vote for, it won't work because they're obviously just as much into mud slinging as the politicians. Dave Berry and JibJab, et alia, have lampooned the overarching narrative about us, Berry writing, "Do we truly believe that ALL red-state residents are ignorant racist fascist knuckle-dragging NASCAR-obsessed cousin-marrying roadkill-eating tobacco-juice-dribbling gun-fondling religious fanatic rednecks; or that ALL blue-state residents are godless unpatriotic pierced-nose Volvo-driving France-loving left-wing communist latte-sucking tofu-chomping holistic-wacko neurotic vegan weenie perverts?" Well, that's how we're generally being portrayed in the vast majority of media, including video games. Underscores just how immature this country really is.
I'll give developers credit where credit is due, however. Many are, at least, trying to portray human beings as human beings as opposed to stereotypes at the moment. That has to count for something. That's much of the reason why I think the backstory, at least, of Fallout 76 is actually pretty good. The Appalachian survivors are predominately portrayed with respect as human beings with all the foibles and achille's heels of human beings as opposed to caricatures and stereotypes. But that's background. The foreground is quite a bit different.
@@lrinfiI’d say it’s a pretty big stretch to compare that to democrats vs republicans. It’s a pretty classic “dogmatic military adherent vs. soft-hearted altruist” trope that has existed for a long, long time.
Is it a very original take on the trope in Fo76? No. That’s Bethesda for you, though. Either way, this feels more like overlaying current social politics onto something that was meant to be a commentary purely on military dogma vs. empathy for the people they’re supposed to be fighting for.
It just feels like you could look back at any story of clashing dogmatic and iconoclastic military doctrine and apply this logic to it. The association with the dogmatics as republicans and democrats altruists is in itself forcing modern US politics onto something that didn’t intentionally contain them.
Also, black and white, good vs. evil storytelling is as old as storytelling itself. There are examples of all-too-blatant insertions of modern, two-party political debate into stories. I agree. As a result, though, people are also seeing it where it’s not really happening.
At 25 I'm fairly young, but even I have realized that locking yourself away from other peoples POV makes you a worse person. I learned that listening to one another is really important in general for a community / society. You dont have to copy someone elses opinion or stance just because you listen to them but it likely will help you bolster your own. Believe it or not, some of the most fruitful conversations I had were with people who disagreed with me, I learned a lot from them.
different people = more ideas
Diversity win
The opposite is a similar risk. Youth doesn't normally result in you exposing yourself to holding too much prejudice towards others, but *too little* - wariness is something learned with age.
I'd strongly recommend making sure to learn from the negatives of your experiences as well as the good.
Yeah, I think anyone asserting "just by talking about it, harm has been done" might be fundamentally misunderstanding the role communication and understanding has to do in human culture and learning.
Like yes, a safety manual explaining common situations that hurt people can be examined maliciously to learn ways to intentionally hurt people. But for _most_ people checking that information, it is going to be used to help protect people from things they may have simply not known or encountered or understood or they just plain forgot. And by putting it up for discussion, there's a chance that weak points might be analyzed from multiple viewpoints so that people figure out a better way to get the useful information across that is less likely to be used for home.
Security or safety by obscuring is usually not very safe or secure at all.
Yeah, preventing people from talking about stuff is basically preventing people from learning. We need to be able to voice our opinions and stuff or else we never really open ourselves up to counter arguments and criticism that can help us see the flaws in our own thinking.
Those who forget about history are doomed to repeat it.
The people who claim this aren't interested in helping or protecting people, they are interested in the tiny bit of power they can feel from shutting people up.
@@hoonaignachowanehaOr so long as it does not personally affect them or their way of living, they’re content to live comfortably with their heads down.
The people who do this stuff are already positive they have the correct ideas, or they only believe in power politics, not truth and learning and debate.
Asking this from people on the Internet can be like hoping you'll find money on the street.
In my experience, the vast majority of people do not want to have a discussion. They want to give their opinion, chalk it up as fact and either fight over it or ignore anything to the contrary.
At best, I think you can learn from the POV of others. But pushing back in any way just leads to a bad time.
Treasure those rare moments when the response actually seems reasonable, as opposed to instantly combative.
Ah man. The name thing. I have the same problem!
I’m forever getting names crossed or just forgetting them.
I had customers I worked with for a decade + and couldnt remember their names. I remembered so many details about them but not the names.
And then after a decade its too late to ask so I had to pray it never came up that I needed their name lol.
I had two students one semester. One was a pale, blond, blue-eyed Norwegian guy, powerlifter build. Next to him sat the other, a thin, short-haired black guy. Both students names started with the same letter, and I constantly mixed them up.
Same-firstletter names are my kryptonite.
I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I don't care. 😏
Tim thank you so much for this video. "People feel judged when you ask them why they like something." This is also why I have almost completely stopped having conversations with people anymore. No one understands the subtleties of conversation anymore, everyone's put for the gotcha moment to prove the other wrong. I try to learn more about things, like you said "I couldn't get past an hour in this game why did YOU like it?" Then maybe I can see the game differently and enjoy it also. Another part of conversation people don't appreciate anymore is silence. The power that a 10 second pause can have during a speech is powerful, it doesn't have to be filled with applause or cheers. Thank you again, Tim. Your wisdom is far reaching and I appreciate these videos every day.
I actually had that issue with Pillars of Eternity. I love CRPGs but, for reasons too long to document here, I think it has a slow start that is hard to engage with. I gave it up after 30 minutes. Friend of mine loved it and said "No, stick with it. Around 8-10 hours in it gets really good." He was totally right and I would have missed out if I had stuck by my initial reaction. My grandpa was a master of the long pause. I've come to associate it with people who are carefully considering what you have said before responding and it's disconcerting that this has been left behind. So many people listen to respond rather than to understand, and some people are downright uncomfortable with silence.
I wanted to add my two cents and mention that I've had moments where someone I'm talking to immediately gets defensive upon me asking a question (especially through the Internet), but instead of stopping the conversation, I've stuck around and kept talking to them in a calm manner. The results vary and I don't have hard numbers, but a good amount of people actually put their guard down and started to talk back in good faith.
It seems some people have just been burned by past experiences and need to make sure you aren't a "threat" to them.
Aristotle may not have said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
But it's still a damn good quote
If everyone could understand everyone else's POV, I feel the world would either be a lot better, or a hell of a lot worse.
Thanks Tim for talking about this. This really explains possible reasons why some recent games could have narrative issues and why different POV is important for good storytelling.
I pretty much agree with all that's said
one other thing that ive noticed is that irl, any two people tend to trust each other more compared to online. Online everything is out and exposed and anyone can chime in - even a mean person.
So generally online no one really trusts anyone - or at least a lot less - and so that leads to people assuming the worst more often.
In practice ive found it helpful to not only try to understand other peoples point of view - but also try to quickly figure out how open they are to understanding my point of view. If I sense that they generally wont be open to my questions I don't go probing because a) they are just gonna assume the worst of my intentions and b) if they *never* try to understand anyone else their opinions are probably not as nuanced as my - so my time is much better spent finding someone else to have a discussion with.
Now, Im not advocating for only interacting with those you agree with cause a) that leads to a less nuanced outlook and b) that's not even really that possible in the real world
Just gotta find the right people that want to have discussions
that can be rare sadly sometimes tho, so sometimes an alternative is to find two people that have the same opinion that I don't understand and see how they discuss it to each other - and maybe I can gleam understandings and answer my questions with out directly engaging.
This approach has hurt me in the past tho cause im trans and I used to listen to the opinions of transphobes to see where they are coming from - and that kinda just made me more depressed - so dont recommend it take this piece of advice to the extreme.
I always try to rememeber the other person I'm talking to has lived a life full of experiences, more or less just as many as you, and there is no way to experience their life, and they cant experience yours. You have to, at the very least find some sort of connection, before you can even start to dissect the actual dissagreement at hand.
That is a needless process that leaves you with a foundation of mud. You don't have the time to do that with every person, and even then people do lie to you and/or to themselves. Focus on what is said, what is done and behavioral patterns. Focus on logic, correctness, reality, truth.
In short: I don't need to hear your life story if you tell me 2+2=5. The reason why you claimed that is irrelevant to the fact that it's false. At best I can tell you where you went wrong with the calculation, but I won't be convinced to attain some ambiguous "we don't know" stance, compromising truth for the sake of fake empathy.
I also struggle with names, but it is part of my thinking pattern. To name something as it names itself is a sign of respect, or respecting the system. If a corporation names one of their product X, and I do not respect the brand or the product, I won't name it X. Or I just tend to forget. Or I use something jokingly. I call the Wildlands game for example "Shoot." "Want to play Shoot?"
As of animal names, they are literally made up and animals do not care. As of human names, well, that's a little different. A basic level of hospitality is adequate, so instead of saying the name wrong, I prefer to phrase my sentences differently as to avoid saying the name at all. But if you want to mock someone or something, intentionally saying the wrong name is effective. It's quite funny too.
As of pronouns: Male: He. Female: She. Object: It. Plural: Them. Unknown gender: "He or she" or just use whatever you think is more likely fitting. Talking about abstract persons (like "the player"): He. Why? Because I am male, and the text is not of high importance.
If you try to appease people on an ideological basis, you can only lose. You exposed a vulnerability to vicious people who will leverage it to control you as much as possible.
Sometimes asking "why do you think that?" makes people angry because they don't know the answer to that question.
There's a lot of resistance to neutral or gray area perspectives as well.
I think I can see why some folks would push back against the idea of people trying to understand other opinions because it is a trend on some bad faith actors to ask "why" for the purposes of trolling/engagement farming/just tying up people's energy and focus, most notably in social media. So again, I know you had your reasons to shut down your social accounts but here's another reason for me to consider leaving it.
To your point of writing convincing antagonists/villains, I'm reminded of a wrestling adage that effective villains must believe they are justified in their actions to do a good in their view. It requires a shift in perspective. Keeping it in a wrestling context, a villain champion has just attacked a challenger with a weapon. Most wrestling rules require the wrestlers fight without weapons, additionally, using a weapon is a disqualifying tactic that ends a match immediately if caught by the official in charge, as well as championships normally can not change if the champion loses by disqualification. So a villain champion sees they are having trouble with their challenger, values being the champion more so than being the winner and uses a weapon or other illegal hold, this will make future challengers wary and the champion keeps their championship. The fans of the challenger may cry out, "Why would the champion do this?" because they expected a fair contest but not everyone holds the same values and the villain's fans may laud the villain for being smart and retaining the championship.
A much needed skill that everyone deserves to learn.
*everyone else
I think the ability to have a neutral opinion is so valuable. Like you said about religion, I’m not very into it, but I know it’s very valuable for some, and I certainly don’t think lesser of somebody for it
people argue religion like it's Marvel vs DC
I mean.
If you want some insight into it, you need to stop thinking of religion as dogma, because the dogma... everyone hates it, including the people who preach it. It also isn't part of any actual religion. The core of it is spirituality.
That... well, maybe I'll explain it another time.
@@SyndicateOperative he didn't ask.
If you ooze wisdom, why don't you go to a church as an outlet?
Hey, Tim! I started following you after I saw the TV version of fallout. I’m not a gamer, but I love your videos, and I find them quite calming. I also want to thank you for this particular video, because I would like to try my hand at writing, and POV is extremely important. Thanks again for all your videos!💕
This reminds me of the video you made where you talked about either Crits or chance in fallout i believe. Where despite the math saying the percentage is correct they felt like they were not getting fair enough rolls.
One of my favorite things that happens on RUclips / internet is learning a stranger's perspective on something I don't really like. Or a new, unique perspective on something I thought I already understood. I love it when someone can reveal a layer of something I didn't understand before, or when someone can show me why something I had written off as "not for me" is actually something I enjoy. Doesn't always happen, there are still things I dislike. But it's nice when it does, more people should operate like this. Not I'm search of the flaws but in search of the beauty in everything. Every game / movie / book / piece of art is *someone's* favorite. And sometimes, you can learn about yourself if you find out why it's their favorite.
Thank you for addressing the anger that comes about when attempting to investigate and explain the viewpoints behind controversial figures.
A political commentator I deeply admire and who sadly passed in 2020 had the best insight into this in my opinion.
Being that, in it's most distilled form. "Explanation and investigation does not equal justification."
Which in the current social climate, alongside individual stubbornness. Can often become lost in translation or just omitted in general.
Funnily enough, getting defensive from the question "Why?" came up earlier today for me. It could be just be curiosity, but it seems like an increasing amount of people are using it to be confrontational without actually trying to learn/understand another person's point of view.
Great video. A little empathy goes a long way.
You know that the truth is often unkind though, Tim.
I so resonated with all your tales of information processing challenges because I live similar ones every day and have done my whole life! How it works for me is that I feel this as a not quite developed part of my being - at least it doesn't flow easily and instinctively - and so I try extra hard to apply myself to analysing communication, whether taking it in or giving it out. Feeling misunderstood hits a tender spot in me because damn it, I work so hard to be clear about things and it feels sometimes like it's still not enough! How much is enough until it's not your fault anymore for not being sufficiently clear?!
Sometimes the other person isn't communicating in good faith and then I'm OK with letting it go and moving on with my day, but humans are complex and there are a whole range of nuanced layers to navigate that aren't quite at that obvious one.
I *have* learned that if someone I care about takes offense at a question I've asked for clarity, it may be because they are emotionally invested in what they are saying and therefore sensitive themselves to perceived criticism. Am I wrong for my objective analysis? Absolutely not, but it's not always the most effective response for emotional relationship maintenance. When your and their insecurities rub up against each other you have to take at least some responsibility for appropriate choices. As for the rest of the world... eh, who the fuck knows what's going on inside them? I just stumble through each interaction and try to expand, tweak or refine my perspective as best I can that particular day. 😅
Gods this resonates on such a deep level for me as a neurodivergent person. I’m just over here trying to understand and learn from people. ;.; I have the name trouble too. Especially with songs! Also trouble with pronouns. I’ve accidentally used like three different sets for my husband of 18 years. XD
I was Sergeant in the Army before I became a manager in the corporate world. In both cases I had deal with the people I was entrusted with to effectively and consistently accomplish tasks and build systems. The best outcomes happened when I was able to relinquish control and tap the unique talents of the people I had, rather than wish for the 'dream team' that I didn't have. That took, as you say, understanding people deeply enough to not only find their skills, but to determine what motivates them. I credit the Army with really teaching me this.
Given the nature of combat and casualties, everyone cross trains each other's jobs, but also leaders are taught to accomplish whatever mission they have with the people at hand, rather than waiting for an ideal situation to present itself. Time, in military terms, can mean the difference between success and failure against your enemy, and I expect the corollary to that in the business world would be time to market = success/failure given a window of opportunity. That means, surprisingly to many people, an Army leader has to be creative on the fly (I have to laugh when people think the military is a bunch of automatons). This goes back to the old saying, "never judge a book by its cover."
Life hack for you, Tim: You can pretend the name thing IS a senior moment. It gets more and more plausible with time. Maybe people will take it easier then.
Honestly it's so nice to go through this video and catch so many commonalities in thought process....because often it feels like everyone I run into, both internet and in person, doesn't seem to share the desire to understand or investigate. So thanks for putting this out there, I wish more people shared this thought process and were a bit slower to jump to conclusions and tribalism.
Small bathrooms are often unisex, but larger once are gendered.
These videos you've made are amazing for people interested in game development, but I must say, as some nerd that works in a dental office, some of these videos are chock-full of great life advice in general. Thank you for all you do, Tim.
I'm learning game design right now and these videos are a blessing. Thank you!!!
my autistic ass always asking "why" cause I just want to understand, and then people think I'm attacking their ideas :')
Great timing Tim. With the drama going on in the game engine scene this is imperative.
The best thing about your discussions, lectures, advice (whatever you want to call these talks) is that you have nuance and a deeper logic than just a one-dimensional mind set. Always appreciate the insight you share. Thanks.
Love your channel, Tim - it’s taught me so much about life and work in general. You’re awesome ❤
I've learned the ego really doesn't like to be questioned, as it takes it as being challenged. Which I'm not judging people for it, as we all have it in us, but it's useful to know what's going on in people. A really great book on it is "Dinosaur Brains", which was recommended in "The Pragmatic Programmer".
11:25 Individual bathrooms do exist in Australia but they’re quite rare. The main place you see them are gold class cinema, and even then only new ones.
"Consider the other POV" and "understand how to have a discussion" are by far the most crucial skills to have in game development, and it's such a shame that so few have those skills. My biggest pet peeve is when you present your stance, and the response is "no, you're wrong" with zero rationale or examples. I instantly know that person has no idea what they're talking about, precisely because anyone that does will always have very real logic to backup their belief. And more often than not, I find that "the most knowledgeable" are also the most excited to dive into discussion. And the kicker is, it's never about who's right or wrong. It's about testing and developing heuristics / theories that may work in one genre or context, even though they may fail utterly in another.
One controversial example is "Dark Souls should add an easy mode". That's a stance I strongly support, albeit, maybe not to the extent of a fully fledged difficulty mode. The easiest method as I see it, would be to add cheat codes to the game, which can only be activated during the character creation screen, which would in turn lock that character into a permanent "offline mode". It can be a complex topic, since you're dealing with a feature that goes beyond the core audience, which will also require additional development time. And so the question is ultimately - "will that development time be worth the potential growth in audience?". A topic like that very easily receives "stone wall" responses, with big and loud graffiti written right across it. A wall that won't ever move, bend, or break.
if everyone made an effort to understand others, even while disagreeing, the world would be a better place. wish this was taught in school
Every time I watch one of your videos I believe more and more in how good of a person you are. I enjoy having in-depth discussions with people on why they believe the way they do. But it's rare that I can encounter someone that doesn't get defensive. I would love to sit on a porch and just have an hours-long conversation with you. I could only imagine the wisdom that would come forth.
There would also be cupcakes. I am totally into cupcakes right now.
@@CainOnGamesgoing to need a RUclips short on the new batch of cupcakes.
Cupcake cake?
🎶Every day, when you're walking down the street.
Everybody that you meet
has an original point of view 🎶
I've watched some lets plays done by therapist. And what fascinated me the most is that when he approaches an NPC he always goes: curiosity before judgement, we need to hear their point of view first, no matter how unhinged NPC is presented to player. I think all my experiences in life will prevent me from having an approach like this but watching those videos made it kind of stuck in my head so its doing something to my worldview in background I guess. And Tim is saying the same thing here so... I guess, I agree. Its important to always understand other person's point of view.
This speaks to me on such an unfathomably fundamental level.
I’ve seen nearly every angle of people trying and failing to see other povs. Or attacking that way or both.
If you’re wondering how/why this goes wrong for you so often and you want my thoughts I might suggest a few conmon points of major failure:
Read the room. It’s it a friend you know very well or are you ambushing someone whose having a bad day and is going to be defensive by default?
Obviously you’re going to think you’re not ambushing someone but you have to try to assess from their shoes. This is hard for most people to do I’ve heard.
An ambush is like you lure someone into a well crafted trapped map and ambush them with a rpg boss fight. Since you made the traps, you know where to avoid walking. It’s no big deal.
The other person is panicked and in an unexpected situation. What else did they miss? This unexpected boss fight happened did they also steal my gear? Who knows. They don’t even know where the doors to leave are. Just fog of war. No information.
So to avoid this kind of panic you could try taking the first hit. Say simmering that makes you vulnerable. You don’t like super Mario? It took me 10 hours to beat the first level but I grew to like it. What aspects did you struggle with?
See, rather than showing up as a blank wall there by saying “how could you not like super mario” it has a tension diffusing point that I was comically bad at an easy part.
Now instead of having to guess if you’re walking into a blind boss fight, you can read the vibe a bit and be like “oh I didn’t have that issue. I just don’t like how slippery mario feels”.
Now you have an angle to start talking on. And it’s not a one aided interrogation.
Framing conversations like this solves 95% of the problems of what I understood in your original opening statement. I know because I used to have the same problems. And I see this daily with all the engineers I work with. People just feeling like they have to hold all the power and all the keys and control/dominate the conversation to never look weak. But they somehow don’t piece together what it’s like being in the other side of that.
Oh man. I'm exactly the same!
I often actually look for things that I disagree with people, because I find conversations about those the most interesting.
And I have had it happen many times that the other person thinks that I'm attacking their point of view, when I'm actually excited more than anything.
Same thing with letting people speak and not interupting when they are making a point has often been misunderstood as agreeing.
I once listened to this one guy who wanted to get into politics, and his big campaign promise was to deport everyone that committed a crime.
After going over his plan he ended that it's so nice that you agree, because a lot of other people have not. And I was like "wait, wh? NO!"
Great video. First: don’t feel alone on the names things. I don’t misremember them - I don’t remember them at all at times. Complete brain lock on names. “He’s gay, pudgy, bulemic, balding, piano, windshield wiper glasses, Donald Duck costume on stage, famous songs are…I can picture the album cover with his ridiculous platform shoes…”. But can’t come up with the album name, his name (Elton John) - my brain can’t access where it stores names. And it’s not some recent thing - this exact episode was from almost 40 year ago with the game Scattergories. Everyone at the gaming convention calls to me by name, and…I know them…but I have to work hard to pound a name into my brain. Glitched sector on the organic hard disk? Shrug.
Second: They. Brute force it until you get used to saying it. It actually is correct usage, it just fell out of usage and became uncommon to the point we perceive it as only plural.
The unnamed (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) writer: She has some serious problems, what with denouncing that poor woman at the Olympics who comes from a country where she might well get murdered if she was actually trans. Oddly, several of her characters transgendered (temporarily) in her novels. Several trans-specied (if that’s a word, which auto-correct is having conniptions over). She’s simply rejecting the concept of people transitioning to another gender (which is a whole conversation in itself). But the whole “uncomfortable” thing can be illustrated in a way that will make them feel uncomfortable by pointing out that white people were “uncomfortable” with black people using the same restroom as them at one time (well, some still do, I imagine).
Point of view: Any wannabe writer needs to pay close attention to your final point - you need to understand other points of views to write characters. The best villains are nuanced - they feel justified in what they are doing. Not all people think the same way as you - they come from different backgrounds, cultures, experiences.
Religions: all that art history I had to study. To properly understand lots of it and its context, I had to learn Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox), Zoroastrian, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhism, animism, Greek and Roman pantheons (and the differences), Celtic, and various and sundry “pagan” religions. And I was raised on Greek and Norse mythology anyway. I knew that Namtar (in Dragon Wars) wasn’t just “Ratman” spelled backwards. You never when some odd bit of trivia will pay off in writing.
My favorite is saying” I love you but I meet so many people it’s hard to remember your name”
I wish more people would think like this and stop trying to prove everyone else is evil, there is always a reason the way someone thinks or feels the way they do and you might see it as wrong but telling them they are evil or calling them things that imply that does not help if anything it can often just confirm their views.
The religion part particularly is true. I am an atheist who is really chill (I outgrew my edgy teenage atheism a long time ago), but some people assume you are anti-religion the second they hear atheist.
The worst was the philosophy class I took as an elective in college. The teacher asked who was religious and who was atheist. Of course I raised my hand and for the rest of the semester I had nothing but problems from this instructor.
I have gotten along really well with virtually every instructor I have had but this instructor immediately had it out for me the second I mentioned I was atheist (per his asking!!!).
Eventually I had to write an e-mail and politely ask him to knock it off, if I was the type of person to complain to hr I probably could have got him fired but I didnt want that I just wanted him to stop treating me like garbage in front of the whole class just because of his assumptions he made up in his own head about who I am.
Uncle Tim continues to be the most reasonable person on RUclips
Growing up almost entirely socially isolated, probing the perspectives of others has always been a keen interest of mine. One of the most important conclusions I've reached is that sooo many problems in the world are caused by an inability or unwillingness for people to understand that two conflicting perspectives can both be right at the same time.
I think when trying to understand someone else's POV, its the perfect time to deploy a disarming compliment to subconsciously let the other person know that you're not coming at them from a point of conflict. Something like "I really love the medieval theme of this pizza restaurant. What was the inspiration for that?" is generally a lot more palatable to the average person than, "Why'd you name this place Round Table?" And as for the name thing, I feel you there. Its a running joke in my family that no one get a name right the first go. Something about big families I think. My dad's got 6 siblings and his parents could never keep anyone's names straight, up to the point that my grandfather would call my dad the dog's name sometimes.
Maybe we should bring back the use of "one" as a pronoun. 👑
I have a problem with remembering proper nouns too - it's almost like there's an entirely different place they get filed in the brain but it's a dilapidated part of my mind. Same with trying to remember sequences of things. Visuo-spatial stuff there's no problem and in fact can seem to remember those vividly for life.
Part of me thinks that it's likely a mental architecture that happens to be suited for creative or problem solving skills but that could be just me trying to make lemonade from the lemon I have between the ears.
My method of trying to understand other people is the same, i ask a lot about the 'why do you feel that x'.
The hardest part for me about that, is to find the point in which i'm asking so much they might think i'm just being rethorical, instead of showing genuine curiosity for their pov
And much like tim said, but not only for the games industry; that's a valuable skill when working with teams in many areas
Yeah, after playing and watching different games, I begin to notice different designs which originate from different PoVs. That's why when I see and or watch new games especially ones outside my favorite genres, I refrain myself from closing my mind but instead open my mind to see why they made such games.
They may not always be right but at least I could learn something.
Okay this is going to be a little philosophical but in essence, generally no one wants to be a bad person and thinks their actions are justified.
So to effectivly stop someone from doing something I dislike its important to understand why they do it in the first place.
Some people may have less trouble with understanding someone elses POV but its something thats learnable with good observation and questions.
Tim is a fkn legend
All of my opinions are objectively correct, so it isn't a problem.
I have the same issue with people's names, some I am never able to remember their name on the first try but especially if I haven't talked to that person for a while!
Thank you, Tim.
Loved this video, if I could have one superpower being able to read people's thoughts so I can more easily understand their POV would probably be ontop the list for many of the reasons discussed in this video lol. It would be immeasurably helpful
Also pro tip for anyone struggling with pronoun usage in their writing: Write stories from the POV of animals. You'll find yourself often using "it" "they" "them" etcetera & it helps you wiggle out of the mentality of more traditional English pronoun useage, personally that's what I credit the most for not running into any issues related to gender as far as my writing is concerned.
"The player walks up on the monster and they use the ability" could definitely be a bit confusing, especially if you're looking at rules when you're trying to get clarification about something.
I find myself rewriting sentences for gender neutrality, for example "The player uses their ability when they walk up to the monster" is neutral and not ambiguous in any way.
The problem is when people don't actually have a point of view about something per se. They just want to get away with something that other people don't want them to do. Most criminals are like that. You can ask them why they felt like they deserved to steal something, or rip someone off in some way, for example. They can give you an excuse, but it's not really a point of view. People just decide that they deserve to do something or hurt someone. It's a fundamental mindset and not really a point of view. People are in prison precisely because we can look at a situation from their point of view and say without any doubt that we wouldn't have done the same thing.
So ..uh...here's an unorthodox and illegal tip: sit in a room with this persona and take MDMA together, and talk about your POVs. It's enlighting
content vs title - as I understand it, memory for names is related to the area of adhd. I can remember someone's whole life story before I remember their name. Sing a whole song but not know the name of the song or the band name. Was worse in the time before searching up songs on the internet.
I try to let people like stuff without having to name a reason. I think its nice to like stuff.
I think in Germany they have a phrase like 'silence is high praise' or something. Cus they can name their complaints but when its good everyone kinda shuts up.
Its harder to understand WHY that way, but I think its just how a lot of people are.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people have beliefs based on social queues instead of informed opinions or a contiguous philosophy. They will just adopt whatever belief they were raised around or that was shared by their friend group. It’s why you get a lot of people who will fight for the rights of one group and then disparage the same rights of another simply based on social grouping. It happens from both sides and is really annoying to try to maneuver the mind field of their brain.
People are supposed to like political candidates? I thought everybody just voted for whoever had the highest change of making sure the person they dislike the most lost.
You don't think both Obama and Trump won on their likeability and cult followings?
@@GAGONMYCOREYTrump lost the popular vote, every republican president since like Nixon has relied on voter suppression tactics as well as electorate votes to win elections. Bush Jr even did election fraud with the help of Roger Stone and the Brooks Brothers Riot.
That is a common problem of First Past the Post voting systems. Ranked Choice voting and also proportional systems (We use MMP in NZ) largely avoid that.
@@peterd9698 Oh, but it's so much worse than a difference in electoral systems in the US. Changing that up could help a little...maybe...but won't come close to resolving the real issue here.
"Inverted totalitarianism reverses things. It is all politics all of the time but a politics largely untempered by the political. Party squabbles are occasionally on public display, and there is a frantic and continuous politics among factions of the party, interest groups, competing corporate powers, and rival media concerns. And there is, of course, the culminating moment of national elections when the attention of the nation is required to _make a choice of personalities rather than a choice between alternatives_ . What is absent is the political, the commitment to finding where the common good lies amidst the welter of well-financed, highly organized, single-minded interests rabidly seeking governmental favors and overwhelming the practices of representative government and public administration with a sea of cash." -- Sheldon Wolin, 'Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism'
@@GAGONMYCOREY what can I say other than people really did not like Clinton.
No, Tim! Just tell me that i am always right! (there is no even theoretical possibility of me being always right, or you knowing about it, but it is irrelevant)
Someone else's POV can show you some odd angle of how you see things, this is why I gather every toaster I find in fallout.
I think that certain words and language can have a subtle difference in meaning depending if you read it or say it. It also depends on how it is said. When you talk in your videos, I feel like I get your POV quite well, in part because you explain things well, but also because of you demeanor and that you are expressive when you talk. But there is also a factor of: Do I actually understand your POV, or is there a detail I'm not quite understanding and I just feel like that? We had a slight disagreement once regarding "influence", I think if we had an actual talking conversation, I feel like we would agree. I'm not sure we had a different POV in those comments. I think it's not always just about POV and seeing things differently, because communication is hard.
Well, you might not always get it right, Tim, but at least, it looks like your heart is on the right place!
i saw many rpg manuals that names the characters in examples, so they dont need an ambigous gender, that also helps to distinguish the actor and the target off the action
POV: you don’t understand POV
it stands for "Point Of View"
@@GhostGirlBlues pov: your pov didn’t acquire the joke
@@CallOfCutie69 pov: we still don't understand pov.
POV: You are reading a RUclips comment :)
@Rafinha_estraga_raboPOV: I can read, but I currently can't read because I need bi-focal glasses.
What time has an opinion that does not align with mine?! How dare you!
I get a lot of the responses you have heard. Sometimes I just want to understand!
I had a friend like this when I was growing up, I'd ask him why he liked something, and he'd immediately assume I'm criticizing and get defensive, where most of the time I was just curious about the thing in question.
Yes! I'm so the same with the memory thing. I think I inherited it from my mum. All growing up I was frequently called by my brothers name or my brother by my dad's name, we were all used to it so it was just funny. I can even struggle with names I came up with like when I'm doing some programming, I constantly forget names of functions, files or programmes.
I heard a great comment ages ago that said basically nowadays believe put to much of their own identity into their opinions. So when those are challenged they go completely defensive. People should be more open to changing opinions, and then not get judged on doing so. Scientifically you are suppose to change your views based on new evidences. But nowadays people set up camp and never change.
A simple example of different POV I use sometimes as an example, is breakfast believe it or not 😅. Some people eat American Breakfast and some people eat Continental Breakfast. From your POV you might like one more than the other. Both are good btw 😁
Lol, the pronoun thing doesn't matter. Just pick one and use it. He or she or they. Long as it can be read.
Apparently to some people, they make a big stink about it.
People lack nuance and depth of understanding, especially on the internet. Trying to educate people out of that is a losing battle.
I get flack from people when I try and see something from the point of view of someone I disagree with. It's called empathy. I refused to think people I disagree with are evil. I might think their point of view is wrong, dumb even. But I refuse to hate them. And I am also old, they is and always will be plural in my head.
I am the same with names Tim
I’ve had friends and work colleagues for years who I can not remember their last names if my life depended on it. So much so that I just ended up limiting the amount of people I interact with because I’m tired of offending people by not knowing their name and them thinking it’s personal.
Im still using the first person pov, trying different buttons for the 3rd person POV.
Best i can do is put a selfie stick on my shoulder.
Highly/eerily relevant video lol 😅
Discussions n' Debates
Sometimes people aren't used to neutrality.
Perhaps part of the problem is that by asking questions you imply that they must have deliberate reasons for such a decision.
But they could only make that decision based on feelings, and they may interpret your question as an attack.
In the case of political questions. People there are very tight up into chosen ideologies and questioning it will be very painful for them
The name thing its a real problem for me too.
No matter why you play Chess,
you're competitive, you like solving complexity, you think pieces look cool...
You'll always have to play the other player's moves in your head.
Thanks for your videos!
I couldn't help but laugh when you said some people think you are attacking them when asking questions.. Ain't that the truth. It's hard to engage in conversion mostly on the internet.
"The Law gets really weird if you try to move from people's rights to what you feel comfortable about" - The Pandemic in a nutshell
who is the pandemic in a nutshell?
I'm getting fucking tired of people acting like the Pandemic was such a rights grab when it fucking wasn't. No one was forced to stay home and no one was forced to wear a mask. Businesses requiring masks doesn't impeded your fucking rights. It's the same requirement as having to wear shoes and a shirt to be a patron of most establishments.
Privately owned businesses have no obligation to you what so ever. they aren't publicly owned. So they get to make the rules on their land that they own. And to reduce their workers from dying they asked people like you to just wear a fucking mask and social distance. And that was too much for your peanut fuck brain.
@@lloidffxitell us how you really feel
Singular they has been used for so long. It's a shame grammar teachers can be so strict. In reality they kinda made you worse at grammar
If you won’t review video games, how about board games? Mousetrap, operation, or break the ice. That would be fun to see. I’d much rather see you break down dnd modules piece by piece, but maybe board games would work for a more general audience.
IIRC there was a Butch Lesbian who had security called on her becaue another women saw her in the bathroom and thought she was a man.
Hi Tom, my poor memory for names also gets me in trouble.
Being able to write deep, believable, characters the writer doesn’t agree seems like it’s more and more a lost skill, or at least edited out by committee before we the audience/players get to see it.
There is a lot of people that don't *want* to understand the other, they want want to be right. This inability to listen to other POV lead only to disaster. Look at Ubisoft and how not listening can lead a Titanic corp into the iceberg.
I agree people don't want to understand each other is the problem but i disagree that the primary reason is that they want to be right is the reason.
I think that in most cases its that trying to understand other people make the person trying to understand vulnerable.
The internet is much less of a safe place for vulnerability than the real world - so people learn that being vulnerable is terrible.
So they stop trying to understand other people cause other wise those other people will hurt them.
Then that effect carries over to the real world. People become afraid to understand others online and then are afraid to understand each other irl.
Then you come to the slow collapse of trust and increases of ignorance that we have seen over the last tens of years.
0:38 Usually, tribal-like allegiance, which often includes mutual hatred against other "tribes".
Btw, this also explains why some folk will be outraged by your attempt to see someone else's POV.
Mostly it's "Well this is what my mom and dad thought and they learned it from THEIR mom and dad soooooo"
@@christophergritti9873, this often also comes from friends. Basically, folks will pick a tribe and stick to it no matter what happens. This includes hating the opposing tribe(s).
Obviously a shot in the dark, but I wonder if the girl who hates college went to Digipen lol. I know two dropouts and one who graduated valedictorian in her class and all three of them said it was a traumatic and awful learning environment.