I was Wrong - AMD is in BIG Trouble
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
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Music / Credits:
Outro:
Dylan Sitts feat. HDBeenDope - For The Record (Dylan Sitts Remix)
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Paid content in this video:
- Hetzner Spot
Samples used in this video:
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:40 Hetzner (Advertisement)
1:25 Thanks to the community
2:09 Different scenarios, same problem
3:12 First benchmarks, vertical installation
4:03 Kelvin instead of Celsius
4:35 Delta & power consumption
5:55 Test with horizontal installation
6:39 Results horizontal installation
7:56 Higher delta & first guesses
8:56 Cooler mount for testing
9:46 Benchmarks with cooler mount
10:38 The cooler in detail
11:38 Test with partially mounted cooler
12:03 The spacer bolts & washers
12:47 Two theories remain
13:51 Contact pressure as a problem?
14:35 "Flip Test
16:27 Problem narrowed down!
17:02 Vaporchamber incorrectly designed?
17:58 The cooler is the problem
19:25 Summary/Conclusion
29:58 Conclusion 
Наука
Ah, GN had explained the phenomenon of "dry out" at some point where if a heat pipe is overwhelmed it just poops its pants and the liquid never condenses back leading to poor thermal conductivity
this would be more of a defective batch or three of coolers.
Sounds like exactly this :)
dry out from geometry dash
@@white_man1352 Geometry Dash referense😮
Who are You, Who are so Wise in the Ways of Science?
AMD still doesn't know to design a heatsink.
AMD is amazing at disappointment.
Thats Why you buy AIB cards 😆
Lol.
experiment pliss build water block maybe change ?
Both AMD and I expect CoolerMaster, need a good slap. It's kinda baffling how they thought to get away with this for the second time and no one in a multi million dollar R&D department noticed this. Reference 6900XT showed the same behaviour but only when it was mounted vertically, where the vast majority would have their card mounted horozontally so the issue didn't seem so big.
Imagine if Roman and Steve had the resources of these massive manufacturers. The level of quality would be unmatched
Id say its more a matter of resource management.
Im sure the engineers behind these products are excellent. They're just working with their hands tied behind their backs by the bean counters.
i feel liek this shoudl be a thing they should be paid to be part of the quality control team but being on the public side
I need some help, can you tell the measurement of the screws you use for increase the pressure mout of the card? I wanna try that solution for my RX6950XT, because I think the center of the car are not doing a well contact
AMD reward this man for his diligent troubleshooting.
They are too busy making exaggerated performance charts to pretend they are so power efficient. Meanwhile, my 4090 sips power while annihilating everything AMD has ever made.
@@mattgreenfield8038 Your 4090 must be the only one that "sips power" because they didnt put those fancy high power connectors on them for a joke. Nvidia does good power design typically and these cards are built for a lot of power and have rather high power draw requirements. Jensen would likely not even exaggerate this much. The 4090 is a powerful beast that needs to be well fed.
@Boanerges57 if you had a 4090, you would know they never hit over 400 watts even when you max the power limit to 600 watts, unless you are running something extremely demanding at 4k. Look at the difference in quality between the 2 reference brands. I got a Gigabyte Gaming OC 4090, but the 4090FE is so much more well built than these AMD reference cards. Another domination by Nvidia. Why would anyone buy a 7900XTX instead of a 4090. Makes no sense. If you can't afford it, just get a 4080. This 7900XTX is worse than Vega.
AMD WHAT?? reward this man?? they knew this already and they have the numbers for damage control if and when the public catch's wind of this issue.
@Okay Yeah damage control? How much damage control can they do for this disaster, which is this RDNA3 generation. This is now worse than Vega. I'm so happy I didn't wait for these dumpster fire 7900 series and bought my 4090 on day 1. No problems. No undervolting. No black magic needed to get the 4090 to demolish these cheap RDNA3 cards. What a disaster for AMD. They deserve it for mocking the 12vhpwr that was caused by accidental user error. Look at the build quality difference between a 4080FE or a 4090FE... compared to these AMD reference cards. OMG, lol 😆
You are a legend. You did AMDs job for them and gave so many of us a legit answer. Thank you.
Its insane to believe that AMD behind closed doors doesn't already know about this issue . They are scrambling and panicking to figure out a solution before they say anything
THE THEROY OF GRAVITY overheats AMD cards such a legend thanks
shhhhh amd do not want people to know about this
They want people to think that 110c is normal
no he didn't. He THINKS it's the vapor chamber. He didn't take that apart and discover that it 100% is yet.
@@mjkittredge He pretty much tracked it down to the vapour chamber, so yes it definitly is the vapour chamber.
im very interested in the wattage display readout being used. anyone know where i can get one of them?
@Roman - Where can I get a power cable for the video card as you have shown at minute 6:32? I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction :) Thanks.
I love how ONE person is doing a better job than a full QA department. Or they reported it and management decided to ignore it. Huge kudos to you for exposing those scams.
Big congrats on finding the issue, but as Roman said at the end in the video this is concerning.
It's not magic. I can assure you a competent engineering team would also have rather quickly found the issue and at this point likely narrowed it down to exactly what the problem/problems is/are.
The main issue is how this completely slipped through the design/manufacturing validation process. My guess is as you stated management pushing for that early December launch as promised for investors to get those ~30k extra sales.
This screams rushed launch. This launch needed to be delayed ~2-3 months.
Yea....QA is like TY for figuring that out for us. He should be working for one of these companies, but I don't blame him for doing his own thing...seems he's doing OK. It's hard to believe that they would ignore that, cost more money in long run.
AMD doesn't have a QA department.
@@topmech71 he literally runs his own company based on cooling
@@LiveType Hmmmm, makes you think why aib cards custom models actually had that delay launch, huh? Amd clearly knew this was a thing. Shame on them. At least im glad that first with cpus and now with gpus we get to see the true face of that company. Not that i ever had any doubts, but yeah.
Thanks Roman! Your work, and background as an engineer totally gives us more faith in what and how you do things, than any manufacturer!
Dear Der8auer -- Happy New Year! -- Quick question what's the part you use that acts as both a PCIe 180 degree breakout board that also lets you read the power draw from the PCIe power cables?
Cheers and congrats on finding the root cause!
Random question: at around 10:12, when doing this, would it make sense to physically push together the pcb and the heatsink together, just to ensure any gap created from the gravity loading is gone? Also, would it make sense to flip the card around so that the fans are face up so it hugs the pcb better? Would both these scenarios reduce the hotspot temperature?
Edit: My bad it seems that mounting pressure isn't the issue at all
It's a shame this problem is pretty much irreversible as is. Great diagnosis concluding with the vapor chamber. AMD is going to have to go back to square one. I always wait a certain amount of time before purchasing new tech, as with past launches it saves grief.
They don't call it the bleeding edge because it's sunshine and unicorn farts.
thats why only intel and nvidia :) you forgot that amd got out new cards but no drivers working for em..
@Tigas And you forgot that NVIDIA tried to burn down you house. People that spam "buy NVIDIA" everywhere are special type of scumbags.
@@tigriukasinlove Don't be dumb, you should never just buy into a monopoly. Did AMD fuck this up this time? They sure as hell did. However, if you want Nvidia to continue raising prices to the moon and Intel to go back to its 14n++++++, then by all means be a corporate shill and believe they have your best interest at heart.
Hi D8ernaer, I would like to have the same consumption meter what you are using in this video for my 4080. Can you please provide me, where to buy it? Or you made it by yourself? Is it for long term use or just for a case of "testing". Thank you, Martin.👍
@der8auer Where can we buy that small wattmeter on the PCI-E cable?
Nice to see unbiased and scientific approach to figuring out problems. Nice job.
This is not a scientific approach, more like a technician approach.
@@zoltankramer3383 scientific approach would involve magnets
It's a RUclips approach. No offense.
That is why amd is not sending him chip anymore 😅
@@zihechen3111 AMD might send a lawsuit to cease and desist. Its the same issue like nVidia, there is no problem but there are faulty cards out there all the time. Asking for people to send their broken cards in will result in... broken results. Also there might be plenty of other reasons why the hotspot temp is that much higher.. and even if it is higher maybe it is totally fine and it is meant to go that high. Publicly quickly rushing some hot takes video out for clicks is not the way to go imo, just ask AMD about it first atleast.
You could try to change the vaporchamber from a known "good" card to one of the bad cards.
Yes agree.
What’s the point? He already knows what’s wrong.
yeah not that much of a point now . this is 100 percent the problem and not a theory at this point. And it almost sounds like "working coolers" are gonna be rare finds.
Working coolers may also stop working as was mentioned in the video. Worked in one position, was changed to another orientation and it stopped working, but when changed back to the original orientation it still didn't work correctly. Seems like a very poor design where the liquid can be moved to a part of the card that breaks the phase change loop.
@@ComputerGeeks-R-Us right, but not permanently broken right? I think once the whole thing cools the phase change loop works when vertical on cold start again? I already see some hints in reddit that ppl are returning XTX cards that are ok with hotspot in fear that they will develop this issue in the future ... this is very damaging to RDNA3 ... this also shows (to nvidia as well) why AIBs have value and should be able to make decent profits
What is that adapter that shows the watts used and where can I get one?
6:20 anyone know where I could get one of those PCIe Wattage monitors shown in the timestamp?
Happy New Year Roman and thank you not only for this video which is an amazing investigation into what is causing these hot spot issues but all hard over this last year. Keep up the great work!
Very impressive work. Let's hope AMD respond correctly.
They already responded with a tone-deaf response.
lol, no hope, nvidia and amd gpus teams are run by accountants and marketing guys
@@RicardoReview Basically yes.
Lol, this issue was well documented a decade ago, I'll never touch an AMD because of all the issues they have making an actually good product.
@@rohithmekala2608 Responded to this video that was posted just hours ago?
Anyone know where the mini power meter attached to the card was purchased from?
@der8auer EN did you try putting the card horizontal, with the GPU facing up?
thank you for doing the work on this. hard to believe their in-house testing did not find these results prior to product launch.
this is what really pisses me off.. impossible to miss
@@fredredd410 Not if you test for a measly 30 seconds.
Your not wrong though, impossible to miss if they bothered to do it properly.
they don't test every single card. and if its a low percentage it would be easy to test a bunch of them and miss the few that have this issue. it also seems like they don't 100% consider it an issue as they aren't allowing RMA for this issue. (yet)
It's AMD, they probably didn't even do in house testing.
You're nuts if you think they did not know this. as i said elsewhere amd released a half baked product for sale to the public. they were hoping that it would go unoticed just like their weird clocks speeds all over the place and their low fps from higher clock speeds. amd entire staffing are shills even the ones that knew releasing the product was wrong but did nothing but sit back and allow it to happen. HInt Hint Lesie Zue LOL.. now they will go into damage control mode and say it's only a few batchs here and there.
Your due diligence is impressive and appreciated Roman! Cant wait for the Vapor Chamber cut aways and maybe some watercooled testing... that would seal this diagnosis for sure and put AMD in no position to ignore this.
yes, I am full of admiration, but in my opinion he could also check how the card behaves when it is placed on its back with the cooling up, it can tell us what exactly is the problem with this chamber. it would be good if the card was tested in all positions, it would give a lot of valuable information
..I think you underestimate the ability of humans to live in denial.
@@konbiex4684 Yeah, but those would be unrealistic mounting options since average user will likely mount one of the two positions he tested. That aside, for the science of it, it would be another way of testing this vapor chamber theory. Yes.
You can't really measure the pressure in the chamber by cutting it open, unless you maybe do it under vacuum.
Measuring the amount of liquid in there tends to be difficult as well, as the water tends to be just stuck in the chamber wall coating and doesn't want to come out. You have to boil it off and re-condense it and that's experimentally pretty shaky to do it cleanly not losing or gaining any water, considering air has a fair amount of moisture in it.
So only if there was an issue with the wall coating you're gonna likely see it when you cut it open, but not the two more usual and expected heatpipe or vapour chamber faults.
@@SianaGearz indeed, but now after first tear down he knows where the fill port is before its sealed and covered. It would take quiet a bit of prep, but if he thinks it is needed, I believe Roman could create a proper test to see what the volume and pressure are. Would be another great vid!
6:30 Is this 8-pin connector for the gpu customized? If not, can someone tell me where to buy it? Or what is the name/model so I can search. Thanks.
This right here is my favorite kind of video, testing different cases to pinpoint the root cause. Great job
YEAH...In the Medical field should be the same them many cures will be discovered and people fixed !
awesome explanation thanks for that. Do you have the facilities to design and manufacture a replacementvapour chamber with something else to see if you can improve the cooling aspects?
Thanks for great work you have done. Have you tried to swap the vapor chamber between Good and Bad cards? just to be sure that there are no other variables? (e.g. chip, vram etc)
I had a similar problem many years ago. My AMD R9 390 was mounted vertically (with the IO facing upwards) in my Silverstone FT02 case and it ran very hot and never came close to advertised clocks. While troubleshooting I turned the case on its side and ran a benchmark. It ran much cooler and at its advertised speeds. I think the heatpipes or vapour chamber did not work very well when mounted like that.
Ended up having to change cases to something with a normal orientation and the problem went away.
Problem here is case independent. He had it in an open test bench and it still shits the bed.
@@gionieves2646 yeah but I think he is saying he switched cases so that he can mount the cpu cooler “correctly”
@@noobslayer815 *GPU🤣
So I should mount it vertically? Or return it? My card hovers between 97c/100c sometimes 102c(Hotspot temp) when the fans are ramping up. The fans are going well over 2000 rpm most of the time. Thing sounds like a jet engine. I'm not happy :(
The card itself is never over 60c so it's always 40 plus delta under use.
What's that tool that shows power draw that you can see at 6:18?
Love watching your content! Not only are these deep dives incredibly valuable to the PC community, they are also super interesting from a science and engineering perspective. Cheers!
Would have been interesting to see the "bad" vaporchamber swapped onto a known good card.
Great investigative work. I was guessing the whole way though.
I second this
yeah that was like the first thing I thought...??
It might be impossible if PCB is different.
@@Kocan7 they are all exactly the same pcb lol
He should have contacted AMD first and ask about this phenomenon. Making some hot takes clickbait videos is not the way to go imo. Also if the card is working fine otherwise I dont even see a problem here.. for years hardware has been made to work at 100c, it just sucks if its a laptop and it burns your jewels.
thanks so much for the time and sharing the info... im waiting for my XFX 7900xtx to come in but contemplating returning after hearing about these higher temps... would you recommend skipping out on the 7900xtx until AMD confirms and addresses this formally?
I'm curious did you try flipping the card upside down in a horizontal mount if that has any effect if it does it would add a little more context to the type of internal failure. It would point out if its just a wikiing issue a just runaway thermal situation due to something like insufficient liquid. it might also give a not easy to implement but possible workaround until AMD fixes the issue and does an appropriate recall.
Could you please attach an AIO cooler to one of the affected 7900 XTX's to see how differents the temperatures are?
Yes
Agree
It would likely be far better. But would be helpful to verify.
👍
Always blown away by your hard work, dedication and excellence in coming up with videos like this. If I was AMD or NVIDIA I'd keep you close and include you in a private pool of testers before openly releasing to the wider global market. Your skill set along with your passion for cutting edge hardware makes you more valuable than an employee with the same skill set but with NO heart. It is unimaginable to think of the potential loss of AMD if this was truly a design flaw. What a headache to start off 2023. Thank you Roman and happy new year. Keep 'em coming.
Where do you buy that power draw display that you have on the pcie connectors
I can get the xtx for a good deal, however my mounting situation is a bit unusual as my gpu hangs down from the ceiling of my case with hdmi/dp/usb c on top. Would the vapor chamber work fine in this setup?
Only considering the xtx due to amazing price I can get it for.
Silverstone Raven for example.
Genuinely thank you for your work!! Great channel a nice more technical approach than others. Happy New year dood !
Have you tested cards that DO NOT have the hotspot issue to see if there are any physical differences in the cooler dimensions?
Really good question, I'm going to mess around with my xtx tonight in horizontal vs vert. I haven't NOTICED an issue (the things a beast) but maybe its there.
Where do you get the wire view display
Sapphire MBA 7900 XT here
I'm getting 79c hotspot and 92c junction temps with a 10 min furmark test. Does this junction temperature seem high or is it within range of what is expeceted?
This is huge. Shame gamer nexus has taken Xmas off. Maybe HUB will catch on to this story.
Well done Der8auer
4x 1000$ and you already had a XTX so 5K for one story. Amazing dedication.
Well it is not like it is 5k$ of bricks :D Just require some cash flow :P
@@rkan2 He was chopping them up with a metal grinder? Yeah, if you want to buy one go ahead
@@Irishgamer01 Where did he chop up the cards?? Ehh
you still can slap water block on them ... cards don't seem to have "problems"
@@oinodin This right there. Those Cards are 100% fine still. Not everyone can use them but for ppl who would buy Waterblocks anyways this would be basically a none Issue. Just sell them for like... i dont know... 150 Euro less if the Cooler is broken permanantly and GG. It just needs to be clear that the Card is working fine and thats that. If Roman buys Waterblocks and mounts them then he could probably sell them for more even. I dont know about the Card which he slightly modifyed but even that one should be fine if he tells the Person what he did and he sells it slightly cheaper.
Awesome work Roman 💪🥳🎊 and a great find indeed! Let’s be real every business or corporation stuffs up……. the thing is how they respond and rectify the matter which is important! We’ve seen this from Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Gigabyte, MSI, Asus ….. looking forward to what the next chapter of this saga holds in store 🍿🍿
Every time I have to talk to someone in customer service I die a little inside.
Have you tried testing with the GPU horizontal with the cooler on top rather than underneath? Some cases are orientated this way. May reduce the problem further
Is the power monitor tool you are using custom made or is it commercially available? The one that does your 2x8 pin u turn with the LCD display.
Very informative....one question, Didi you try swapping coolers to a different AMD vap chamber. This might be the way to find out if the wrong internal pressures are varied in the vapor chamber
Swapping coolers (from good working card) should have been second thing to do after checking thermal paste and mounting pressure!!! Obviously, he did not think of that.
Yes, I was waiting for this the whole video, this would have restricted the problem to the cooler straight from the start. Though the video would have been shorter.. 😅
This is an excellent idea
@@ElvirBegovic If the card is cooled down properly in one position and overheats in the other position then it's rather obvious that it's a cooler problem because silicon can't behave this way. Replacing a bad cooler with a good cooler would fix the issue, we can be sure of it without swapping anything, so what's the point?
@@arekb5951 point is that he spent half an hour/day fixing mounting points with a ""precision tool"" and a handheld grinder just to fix nothing!
Truly heroic effort. This man deserves a medal. Just used hydronaut on my 5800x3d install. It’s not a medal but I hope it helps😄
Liquid medal :)
American education...
@@jondonnelly4831 love a good t1000 pun🙂👍
@@dr.derekrobinson1920 ??? I’m from Australia.
@@dr.derekrobinson1920 Evidently it's your education that's lacking lmao
Where can I get that little wattage readout for the pci power? I actually only need it for the 180 degree adapter, but having a readout would be awesome
Please explain how the temperature deltas are shown in the graphs.
If I do a conversion then (50C = 325.15K) and (50K = -223.15C) so are the scales wrong on your graphs or am I misunderstanding how they are represented? Sorry if I'm being an idiot. lol
A temperature difference of 50K is exactly the same as temperature difference of 50C. Kelvin and Celsius units are the same, only the C scale has a zero offset by +273.15K, taken as the freezing point of water at atmospheric pressure. So a C scale is in refference to freezing water point, while K scale is absolute temperature, where 0K is the absolute zero.
Did you test the card in all 6 orientations once it had gone to 110C? I wondered if a different orientation would ‘fix’ the issue.
He tested that. It would not go back to normal when moved to the working position when on.
Did you try changing to another cooler, remove the vapor chamber from the equation, to rule out silicon problem?
if it was a silicon problem, the orientation would not change anything
@@georgwarhead2801 yeah I know, but I'm sure there are those that will try and connect it again to A0 silicon revision ...
Where did you find that 8+8 pcie adapter with the wattage display?
Do you sell the 8Pin GPU wattage reader? Seen @6:18 and @10:10 Where could I buy the 8pin Wire View?
Happy New year. This was really great research into the cause of the hot spots... Thank you for the video.
Re: Kelvin... I find it odd that the DIN standard requires reporting differences in Kelvin, but in reality since one kelvin is the same magnitude as one degree on the Celsius scale, it doesn't really change anything. So if something has a 10 Kelvin difference, it would be the same magnitude (10) in Celsius degrees.
It's a clarity difference. By reporting delta in Kelvin, there is no risk that anyone reading mistakes the delta value for the actual value at the measurement point.
@@ElijsDima Ah... very interesting. But, after some thinking on it, I don't see the real necessity. We use delta values for hundreds of different units in science all the time, and we don't create unique units for deltas. So, for example the delta for 20kg and 10kg has kg for units. We don't create a unit called dkg to make sure people know the difference. Thank you for pointing out the reason it is used. (It still seems very odd to me). I wonder what would happen if by conventions we started adding d to the units for deltas? dkg, dK, dsecs heheh
@@marcfruchtman9473 Kelvin isn't a uniquely created unit for this single purpose. Kelvin is the standard. There may be some rationale behind the fact that the delta is a calculated/derived figure rather than a sampled figure. If the measurement apparatus uses a particular unit, then that's what you report, and after that you do the unit conversions for any further calculations. So if the software report uses C then you record in C, then do conversion to K.
@@marcfruchtman9473 They do, it's called the delta symbol. Δkg
Kelvin is never used by marketing teams because it’s a scale that starts from 0 like any real chart should and that’s why I love it.
Happy New Year, Roman!
Thank you for your excellent work investigating this issue, your previous video on this topic received quite a bit of critique but you’ve turned things around with this video. (Even in literal sense with the card’s orientation)
My AMD 7900XTX is thankfully not affected by this issue (for now) but I’m a little concerned that taking the card out of my case could result in the card exhibiting this behaviour.
At the moment AMD seems to be in denial when it comes to these issues going as far as to have stated that 110 degrees junction is ‘within spec’ so I wonder if it would come to a total recall.
The next question would be whether this is an issue with the design of the vapour chamber or a QC issue where the design tolerance is simply too tight where this issue can quite easily occur.
One question if I may, did you check the serial numbers for these cards to see if they appear to be a part of the same batch?
Definitely the design. Looks like they moved the “in spec” goal post to accommodate a design flaw that was too late to change. Don’t forget they delayed the release by a month. How it got to this point is beyond belief. They would have definitely encountered the problem during testing, moving the cards around, in and out of test rigs. This is just one guy. They’ve got a team of engineers.
What is this pretty nice looking power draw measurement adapter inserted into the dual 8-pin 12V connector? Is it possible to buy one?
So i have an 7900XTX reference card, but if i test my card it doesn't throttle and my hotspot goes to 80C max , is this problem with all units or is it just a batch? horizontal mounted.
I don't follow Reddit or Twitter just RUclips for this info. None of the other channels are talking about this detail because of the holiday season, but thank you for your in depth analysis and news spotlight on this topic. This brings me more understanding of what JayTwoCents was possibly seeing with the down clocking under load. I was hopeful for team red this year, but looks like I'm sitting on the sidelines till one of these GPU manufacturers gets their act together.
Amazing investigative work as usual. Thanks for focusing on facts rather than being an alarmist like a lot of youtubers who simply broadcast misinformation.
What is that power meter adapter on the GPU ? Anyone knows about it?
Chief, what is that display with the power input line showing the Watt? could you please give us some detais? would love to buy one :)
We appreciate your passion and hard work. Thanks man. Happy new year
Wow, the amount of work it took and put into this video seems intense. So much testing. Thank you Sir.
Moin Roman,
Meine Karte hat auch das 110 Grad Hotspot Problem. Ich hatte die Karte erst ca 3 std in Benutzung dann ist sie komplett durchgebrannt. Mein System rührt sich nicht ein bisschen beim Einschalten. Also es funktioniert einfach mal nichts! Mit einer anderen Karte funktioniert mein System. Aber kann meine Karte komplett defekt sein? Oder kann ich die 7900xtx mit einem Trick trotzdem nutzen? RMA lässt mich leider warten und meine alte Karte habe ich nun verkauft 😂
Do you know if the mounting direction problem is also present on the previous refrence RX 6800 series?
Thankyou,
Can see you put alot of work into these vids for us and it's appreciated!
Does this also affect the 7900xt? Thx
probably not, since the XT uses a different cooler as the XTX, i just never heard of a XT having this problem so take that with a grain of salt
Can't say for myself, but I'm pretty sure it does. Let's hope the 7800 and below skus are fine.
I've tried stressing my XT out to see if i can produce the high temp, but I run mine Vert...... I can't even get the GPU junction over 75 degree's
Even running multiple stress tests, or Cyberpunk 2077 on Psycho, still don't get to 80 degree's
@@Xsorus The vertical mount is the reason why, if you mount it horizontally your temperatures may rise.
@@trr4gfreddrtgf Its quite possible, but I have a hyte y60 case so that's not going to be an issue
Considering AMD is denying that there even is a problem at all, I'd be interested to see if they do anything at all.
Nothing wrong with the card exactly. Just faulty coolers.
They will do some software upgrade that throttles the card.
@@ThezRude but the cooler is a part of the card... 🧐
@@ThezRude Cope harder AMD fanboy.
@@ThezRude just remove the cooler, whats left will be 100% in working order 😂😂😂
Is there an alternative and compatible cooling system to check if it's a vapor chamber issue or GPU chip issue? E.g. a water cooling system or more traditional direct contact cooler?
Where can I get one of those gpu power meters?
Great video, very informative. I purchased a reference 7900xt (Sapphire) and can't get my hot spot to go above 82 degrees, so I'm thinking it's working as intended on my end. However, I will continue to monitor temps to see if anything changes.
I have that one on my shopping cart waiting to confirm if the XTs are affected or not. :D I hope you are enjoying yours.
Please let me know if yours are still good. I have the exact same card.
You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of the flow direction in AIO Liquid Coolers. I wonder how they designed the vapor chamber.
L🤫L 🌬️☝️
AIO liquid coolers flow direction is based on outlet on the pump. It doesnt matter if it goes left or right, the end result will still be the same.
Vapour chambers are based on thermal dynamics. Liquid contained in the vapour chamber is basically boiled to the point of evaporation and together with the heat travels up the heatpipe to an area where it is cooler or actively cooled by a fan and that cooler area or fan helps the vapour condense back into a liquid form that trickles back to the base plate of the vapour chamber where it goes through the same process again.
(This is all coming from the top of my head so I think i am mostly correct for the vapour chamber bit but there are other videos and websites that can explain the whole process in more detail)
The problem may be that once the vapor condenses in the colder part of the heatpipe, it's unable to go back to the hot part of heatpipe to start the new vaporization process. Due to the curvature of pipes, I can see that there may be some more favorable starting orientations. It's either that, or simply just bad chiplet design, as people reported the same issue even with a water block cooling solutions.
At 6:30 what is that power monitor?
Did you check the cooler on one of the working cards? It could be a faulty die, bad connection in the silicone?
Your work is always awesome and so professional. Congrats!
AMD had such a good chance to win people over from nvidia this gen and honestly was with a lot of people i spoke to who were interested in upgrading.
They really need to act very fast on this or else its all for nothing.
No, if we have learned anything ever is that people will always buy Nvidea
Its over, you get one chance and they blew it. They blew it with overpricing lackluster cards and settling to be a parasite living off Nvidias Monopoly rather than actually compete, and then if that wasnt bad enough it turned out not only were the cards horrible performance for the asking price but they were also objectively bad tech by being inherently defective. Between RDNA1 architecture/driver issues, Vega…. And now RDNA3, its time to come out and admit that atleast the Radeon portion of AMD is just straight up bad and getting an amd card is a coinflip on of its gonna be good or bad. They had a chance to shake off the issues of the past and actually let people know radeon being unreliable was a just a stigma and instead they reinforced it after talking shit about Nvidias flaws only to be even worse. Thats wild.
unfortunately not in productivity, saww 7900xtx blender performance and decided on a 3080 instead
They messed up as soon as they announced their 7900xtx wasnt $699 IMO
@@Angel7black I agree the pricing is also a problem but it all trickles down and they put in a lot more competition this gen.
Are any of the xt cards effected. Its a shorter card with a slightly different design. Just curious cause i got one and no issues yet.
Does this apply to gpus that hangdown with the io plate at the top?
big thanks for this video..I feel the community owes you one. This and steves video about the 12v cables are really underappreciated.
How is this underappreciated? Video has been out 5 hours... This is not Tik tok.
please feel free to make a donation on my behalf
In the end, it was user error not plugging the 12v cable in all the way. Egg on the face of GN and Steve
@@gutterg0d fuck tictok. and, I think you missed my point.
@@ssaini5028 That is the conclusion in the video, but still vendor error for not adding the plug locks to the plugs., think before you speak/type.
Could you possibly run your tests on the affected cards in your possesion with a water cooler in place of the vapor chamber design as an additional confirmation?
If you watercool your 7900XTX you will be fine.. he already confirmed it was the heat sink and putting a water cooler on it won’t change anything.
My thoughts as well! That would be absolute proof!
Apples/Oranges
LC would give a different result over AC regardless
@@Nightdare but will it have the same results with mounting differences from horizontal to vertical.
@@LegionGamingTV there are other issues as well. the ram speed issue where you can get the promised 3 ghz speeds from sensors but a 50% decrease in framerate. So all the stats look better on paper but there is a slow down somewhere else. Jayztwocents believes there is an issue with the memory manager as well. too many issues with this card but atleast till now no cards have self combusted but they sure arent gonna get record lifespans with these cards.
Does this issue also come up on the Nitro + version of the XTX or in the XFX versions what of the other vendors and their custom cooling designs ?
Really like that little display showing the GPU power! Does anyone knows where I can get one just like that?
Some engineers at AMD are looking for a change of underpants right now, heads are definitely going to roll.
They probably be at Intel or Nvidia by the end of this week
🤣😂🤣😂
Should start at the top, they really sold this piece of crap at “$1000”, realistically $1100-$1300
I think CM does the cooler, not AMD but definitely a QC failure.
@@Angel7black Ignorant comment
@@puciohenzap891 they probably tested the cards only in a vertical mount ( normal orientation for there massive testbenchs)
I really enjoy your whole approach here. Rather than just deciding what the problem is without sufficient testing (Nvidia power connector videos!) you’ve identified the problem with methodical testing and engineering, presenting facts and very readable graphs and data. Excellent work 😊
Shade at jayztwocents 💀
@@Pisscan lol maybe? I actually like J2C. He makes no apologies that he is just a guy with an opinion, but he did go a bit crazy on the whole Nvidia adaptor situation 😅
Curious if this issue affects older video cards like Radeon vii and Vega series.
What happens if you mount it horizontally the other way up?
wow, this was an absolutely excellent video. Your logical and calculated approach to identifying the issue was great, this is a crazy fault for these cards to have and I hope AMD sorts it out asap
Mad. This kind of hard throttling could also explain the bad benchmarking results that the xtx card seems to gt.
Review samples are cherry picked and tested throughoutly before-hand, none of the reviews show big delta between edge and hotspot temp
@@krizby87 They are tested but not cherry picked.
Well. At least in some Cases, yes... it could explain some strange Numbers. But who knows really. Whishfull Thinking as well i think. Lets wait and see what happens.
Hello, thank you for this in depth video. Just tested my 7900 xtx and the temp reaches 101 degrees while overclocked. Never jumps to 110, but should I be concerned at 101 for this card?
hello
i have xfx merc 310 7900 xt my gpu is at 60 degree and my hotspot reaches 105 what is problem here ?
Could the issue be that AMD sourced the vapor chamber from more than one source? If these were all made at the same source the same way wouldn't they all have the same problem? Or could it be a bad batch?
It could just be the default profile is flying a little close to the sun on low fan speeds compared to power draw and there is nothing wrong with the chamber as such*. Just some are that little tiny bit more on the drying out side within the production tolerances - the 'known good' card I kinda expect will suffer the same fate in a more airflow restrictive case or hotter environment.
*Obviously a bit more headroom in the design would be good, but this failure mode is to be expected of any heatpipe/vapour chamber that gets insufficient cooling to actually condense the working fluid fast enough.
Same manufacturer and factory can still mean different machine used. All parts have tolerances and in some cases tolerances can be ok, but in sum add to get something out of specification. It's a common thing that happens. Often you will hear of such a problem in the automobile branches with recalls of new cars because of an "unspecified problem".
Years ago Intel had such a problem with mainboards, all MB of a specific type blew up because a component (it was a specific capacitor) from a supplier was inside the specified tolerances, but Intel miscalculated the worst cases of allowed tolerances and that led to destroyed mainboards. I worked at the time in an IT company and we had to change hundreds of boards with exploded capacitors and systems smelled like rotten eggs because of that.
Happy new year to you and your team ! Great work you do, keep it up ! ;)
Does anyone know, if this also applies to the Sapphire cards for the XTX, which look exactly (I think) like the reference cards? This is sadly the first AMD gpu i join too D:
Yea it does, read a comment where the person mentioned he uses sapphire 7900xtx n the junction temp hits 110c pretty quickly on his card
Excellent analysis. Will you please deduce why the MSI Stealth GS65 9GS overheats? I undervolt and have to turn off turbo to even use this laptop.
Makes You wonder what these huge companies are doing. When it comes to Quality Assurance.
It is not about Quality Assurance, it is about higher management decisions and greed to push the others bellow them to release a not properly tested product.
Probably just had rack mounting for ease of testing and never thought to try it in a tower.
Love your analytical approach. Oh, and happy New Year!
this only happens in the founders version or in the other brands as well?does anybody know?
Is there a way to test the PCB with another vapor chamber design from a different card to see if it can manage cooler temps?