🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂 📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
I recall Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche talking about this principal too- if you carry out a benevolent / charitable act, but have hidden worldly desires that are the act's true motivation, then it is wrong action or effort.
Interesting, this doesn't seem to have been the Buddha's opinion. For the Buddha, any generous or charitable act was good, but it was better if it was done without ulterior motive.
@@DougsDharma thanks Doug! Sort of half-credit then if an act of charity was motivated by selfish, worldly intention. But does the reverse also hold true (i.e., an act of malevolence motivated by selfless intention)? P.S. Really like in this episode how you not only gave a dharma talk / homily, but also compared it to modern events and people!
@@DougsDharma I've read similar ideas in Tibetan Buddhist books as well. I remember a story about a woman in Bokar Rinpoche's Tara book. She did charitable things and helped the monastery but she was praying for wealth and worldly things in general. But it was said that eventually the practice itself helped her to turn to the right goals instead.
I have learned this from experience Doug. It was one of the most painful lessons of wisdom gained in this life. My dearest mother, when she was still around was like a saint. She was always helping the less fortunate and she suffered greatly because of it. She had a small business so it was always feast or famine, some years we were begging food from the church, some years it was steaks on the grill every night. She never held on to her wealth, because she knew it was toxic. Grandpa taught her "never climb that ladder kid, it is a long way to the bottom, once you reach the top, you will surely fall."
Compassion without wisdom is blind; despite having the best intentions you may end up doing more harm than good. True wisdom is free from the eight wordly winds. Wisdom without compassion is useless; even if you understand everything, what good is it for if you don't use this to help others? True compassion is free from self centeredness.
I don't see the issue being with "good intentions gone bad" due to egoistic attachments to worldly gain. I see it as a disconnection from the very root of what Buddhist teachings a founded upon, which is compassion. So long as our consciousness and intentions are aligned with that, our actions will be true and good. Also, on a related, perhaps more subtle level, one must be aware that good intentions and actions are no guarantee of making the world better or aleviating suffering, etc. Sometimes we have good intentions, we act, but then realize that perhaps things would have been better left alone. Sometimes it's a case of "the cure is worse than the disease."
I think some people get upset when they hear Buddha saying somone is 'going to a place of loss, to hell' etc., but there is a tendency to associate such language with the abrahamic religions. I just want say, it should not be seen that way. Buddha is only talking about karmic consequences based on devadatta's intentions and actions, and if he continues in that way. Intentions and actions can be changed. Not to say that karmic consequences wont ripen. It really does depend on one's buddhist beliefs whether karma can be purified and avoided. But even if it cant, it can be brought to fruition sooner rather than later. With wisdom and compassion a persons unwholesome intentions and the attachment/aversion that brings suffering can be alleviated. I personally feel true change can prevent certain karmic consequences. From a secular point of view, for the most part, the suffering resulting from unwholesome intentions and actions can be changed in this life. We can take ourselves out of internal hell. All the best. Thanks for the video. Auspiciously relevant to me as always. I dont know how you do it.
Good intentions are alright, but the problem I think are the actions. Since overtime the acts which are performed to carry out those intentions distort the original noble purpose. Like how some people justify their bad deeds to say that it is for the greater good
Thank you Doug, this video was very thought provoking for me. I think that right intention and right action are both needed to achieve the right result (or the result we were working towards). Without either one, the result ends up being something we might not have aimed for or wanted from the start. It reminds me of stories from school where we follow one student who cheats on exams to get better results and one who works hard studying. Usually the ending is that the one who cheats may not succeed later in life while the one who worked hard did. However, while living in our topsy turvy world, it seems that in reality that it is the other way around in more cases. Could you perhaps share a video about further looking into ourselves and how to better assess and/or reassess what we are doing and how to better shape our future actions and intentions. Cheers Doug 🙏🙏
Hello. Trungpa Rinpoche was talking about ,, idiot compassion ,,. Also there is proverb ,, Way to hell is paved with good intentions ,, . Also Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche said that it is difficult to judge what will be helpful so best to pray that intentions of Buddhas and bodhisattvas will be fullfilled. Also from China great insights of wuwei to allow things to unfold . All best.
Sometimes yes they do but other times no could say the same about expectations. My point here is that there are positive and negative connotations with the word intentions and there are positive and negative connotations with the word expectation
Intentions... are what they are. Few let things be. Not a thing out there needs fixing - all is as and what it is. By the time we strategize, we are simply fixing an historical event, which yields nothing of worth. May as well enjoy the ride.💥
Good initiative. May I share my opinion as a disciple of the Buddha, dharma propagator and a former teacher (non-buddhist)? The initial problematic is a great point, however I have sensed that no explanation or depth was dedicated to each point of the sutra, which is the main function of a dharma commentary. It seemed that this commentary barely surfaced the wisdom by paraphrasing the main problematic and the simplest moral. There are many skillfull means to explain to a targeted audience the dharma. Giving concrete examples of worldly affairs is one. Although, it needs a proper inspection and structured presentation (let’s take the example of a short essay paper). Which in my opinion is not present here. Almost as explaining that the color blue is blue because it is blue in color. Expanding on the dharma is indeed a great and complex task that requires a lot of factors. The main one being to untangle and uncover the precious knowledge. I really appreciate the intention and the effort to spread the dharma. I wish you success in this practice and continuous learning! I am sure that your work will spark inspiration in many. Amitabha
Those who wish to take the world and control it I see that they cannot succeed The world is a sacred instrument One cannot control it The one who controls it will fail The one who grasps it will lose... - Tao Te Ching
Wonderful video sir! I have questions on suttas recommendations. Is there any suttas that talks about negative emotions like jealousy. Is there any suttas that talks about mental health problems like depression? Thanks!
I'm not sure that those exact concepts ever appear in the suttas; I'd have to research it to be sure. But the Buddha does talk about greed all the time, which would encompass jealousy, and he talks about dukkha that would encompass depression.
Perhaps I'm cynical but we are not to spend time thinking of this life and not get attached to things, but here we need to study and look at what and how we think. Ok? is about wisdom and discernment and humility and selflessness. The description of "judgement" by the Buddha bothers me here. Tersely, I see Karma as reaping what you sow AND I very much agree it's your motivation that is important but how it effects other also matters. This is similar the Christ's teaching. I just feel this to be very much like Christian teaching 'You going to Hell' talk. Is very important to me to know if Buddha said it or if it came later. (Similar to my experience of many Christian speakers I've heard who are not Christ like.) Is very important to me to know if Buddha said it or if it came later. This sutta does not seem to reflect Buddhas' writing....he's almost mean LOL. Some of his Suttas have mean characters but the stories are to teach a lesson. This is like a personal judgement made by the Buddha on another person. I have a problem with that. Even Christ who spoke of Hell also forgave every one....I guess it gets into judgement by a being that is perfect? I'm drawn to Buddhism because it does not have a judgement like my Christian walk....the judgement is the quality of your life AND future life(s) based on your actions and past life(s) actions. Maybe the "judgement" is you get reborn over and over and over, but this is not judgement it's existence; becoming what you seem determined to be by your actions and thoughts and emotions. These 'words of Buddha' really bother me. 'Your going to hell...' does he really know? Wish I knew if Buddha really said this. But if you are not sure I'm not going to try to find out. Sorry, a bit of a rant. Thanks for your work. Always helpful.
I heard this in one of Alan Watts’ talks: “let me save you from drowning said the monkey while taking the fish out of the water”. You can do evil by wholeheartedly trying to do good. I don’t think that was SBF’s case.
@@pingas117 so basically what happens is if you make a light side playthrough you give him 5 credits (money) and then Kreia, your mentor who’s a Grey Jedi/Hidden Sith Lord, chastises you because your act of goodness was puerile, the homeless guy ends up mugged and killed for the money you gave him.
Shakyamuni is still in the world since he is a Buddha, I met him a while ago. Buddhas never abandon sentient beings and have the power to recall even arahants from their spiritual coma so he would've certainly recalled Sariputtra who was one of his foremost students.
I'm desperately looking for a job in order to save money, being independent, buy and/or build my own house, have my own business and finally get a girlfriend because right now women are not attracted to me, than marrying and having children. Do I want to get a job for wrong intentions therefore I'm not able to find a new one???
I can't say. But certainly if you look at the early suttas, the Buddha understood that laypeople had to make a living to support themselves and their families.
I believe it is quite foolish logic that expectations always lead to misery heartbreak Agony defeat depression stress anger or any other negative trait or emotion or thinking. It would seem to be the case that we had intentions growing up as far as what we would eat as well as all the different drinks. We had intentions of being in a loving kind supportive compassionate or otherwise empathetic family. After that we had intentions of getting into school and intentions for getting out of school we had intentions for getting into a romantic relationship friendship. And when we didn't stop there we had intentions for our selected religion or spirituality such as but not limited to Christianity Judaism Islam as well as the many different teachings of the Buddha. If we did not have intentions then why do we meditate oh yeah to clear our mind. We also had intentions of being happy other people have intentions for others for them to be nice kind supportive. I'm not going to subscribe to this idea of how intentions lead to misery heartbreak Agony defeat depression anxiety stress or anger. It's abundantly obvious to me that this is a fallacy.
🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
I recall Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche talking about this principal too- if you carry out a benevolent / charitable act, but have hidden worldly desires that are the act's true motivation, then it is wrong action or effort.
Interesting, this doesn't seem to have been the Buddha's opinion. For the Buddha, any generous or charitable act was good, but it was better if it was done without ulterior motive.
@@DougsDharma thanks Doug! Sort of half-credit then if an act of charity was motivated by selfish, worldly intention. But does the reverse also hold true (i.e., an act of malevolence motivated by selfless intention)?
P.S. Really like in this episode how you not only gave a dharma talk / homily, but also compared it to modern events and people!
@@DougsDharma I've read similar ideas in Tibetan Buddhist books as well. I remember a story about a woman in Bokar Rinpoche's Tara book. She did charitable things and helped the monastery but she was praying for wealth and worldly things in general. But it was said that eventually the practice itself helped her to turn to the right goals instead.
@@DougsDharmaI believe that's what Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche thinks too. Perhaps it was just the way he explained it
I have learned this from experience Doug. It was one of the most painful lessons of wisdom gained in this life. My dearest mother, when she was still around was like a saint. She was always helping the less fortunate and she suffered greatly because of it. She had a small business so it was always feast or famine, some years we were begging food from the church, some years it was steaks on the grill every night. She never held on to her wealth, because she knew it was toxic. Grandpa taught her "never climb that ladder kid, it is a long way to the bottom, once you reach the top, you will surely fall."
🙏
Compassion without wisdom is blind; despite having the best intentions you may end up doing more harm than good. True wisdom is free from the eight wordly winds.
Wisdom without compassion is useless; even if you understand everything, what good is it for if you don't use this to help others? True compassion is free from self centeredness.
🙏
Very true. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for share this wonderful video 😇 Namo Buddhaya
My pleasure 😊
Thanks for the content.
My pleasure!
I don't see the issue being with "good intentions gone bad" due to egoistic attachments to worldly gain. I see it as a disconnection from the very root of what Buddhist teachings a founded upon, which is compassion. So long as our consciousness and intentions are aligned with that, our actions will be true and good. Also, on a related, perhaps more subtle level, one must be aware that good intentions and actions are no guarantee of making the world better or aleviating suffering, etc. Sometimes we have good intentions, we act, but then realize that perhaps things would have been better left alone. Sometimes it's a case of "the cure is worse than the disease."
For sure, we aren't guaranteed a good result even with the best of intentions.
Thank you, Doug, once again
Thanks, Doug, splendid as always! 😅🙏
Love, meow, and peace from Germany! 🐱❤🙏
Meow meow! 😸
I think some people get upset when they hear Buddha saying somone is 'going to a place of loss, to hell' etc., but there is a tendency to associate such language with the abrahamic religions. I just want say, it should not be seen that way. Buddha is only talking about karmic consequences based on devadatta's intentions and actions, and if he continues in that way. Intentions and actions can be changed. Not to say that karmic consequences wont ripen. It really does depend on one's buddhist beliefs whether karma can be purified and avoided. But even if it cant, it can be brought to fruition sooner rather than later. With wisdom and compassion a persons unwholesome intentions and the attachment/aversion that brings suffering can be alleviated. I personally feel true change can prevent certain karmic consequences. From a secular point of view, for the most part, the suffering resulting from unwholesome intentions and actions can be changed in this life. We can take ourselves out of internal hell. All the best. Thanks for the video. Auspiciously relevant to me as always. I dont know how you do it.
🙏😊
Good intentions are alright, but the problem I think are the actions. Since overtime the acts which are performed to carry out those intentions distort the original noble purpose. Like how some people justify their bad deeds to say that it is for the greater good
Yes, I think sometimes the intentions can get subtly corrupted in the doing.
🙏thank you
You’re welcome 😊
Thanks Doug this is a very useful video
Glad to hear. 🙏
Thank you Doug, this video was very thought provoking for me.
I think that right intention and right action are both needed to achieve the right result (or the result we were working towards). Without either one, the result ends up being something we might not have aimed for or wanted from the start. It reminds me of stories from school where we follow one student who cheats on exams to get better results and one who works hard studying. Usually the ending is that the one who cheats may not succeed later in life while the one who worked hard did.
However, while living in our topsy turvy world, it seems that in reality that it is the other way around in more cases. Could you perhaps share a video about further looking into ourselves and how to better assess and/or reassess what we are doing and how to better shape our future actions and intentions.
Cheers Doug 🙏🙏
Thanks! It's a tough question ...
Good Intentions are NOT Enough. Consequences matter too !
After all, Ethics is supposed to be a combination of Deontology and Consequentialism.
Hello. Trungpa Rinpoche was talking about ,, idiot compassion ,,. Also there is proverb ,, Way to hell is paved with good intentions ,, . Also Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche said that
it is difficult to judge what will be helpful so best to pray that intentions of Buddhas and bodhisattvas will be fullfilled. Also from China great insights of wuwei to allow things to unfold . All best.
🙏
Sometimes yes they do but other times no could say the same about expectations. My point here is that there are positive and negative connotations with the word intentions and there are positive and negative connotations with the word expectation
Oh sure, good intentions often lead to good results as well.
Another great video, congrats!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Intentions... are what they are. Few let things be. Not a thing out there needs fixing - all is as and what it is. By the time we strategize, we are simply fixing an historical event, which yields nothing of worth. May as well enjoy the ride.💥
Good initiative. May I share my opinion as a disciple of the Buddha, dharma propagator and a former teacher (non-buddhist)?
The initial problematic is a great point, however I have sensed that no explanation or depth was dedicated to each point of the sutra, which is the main function of a dharma commentary. It seemed that this commentary barely surfaced the wisdom by paraphrasing the main problematic and the simplest moral.
There are many skillfull means to explain to a targeted audience the dharma. Giving concrete examples of worldly affairs is one. Although, it needs a proper inspection and structured presentation (let’s take the example of a short essay paper). Which in my opinion is not present here. Almost as explaining that the color blue is blue because it is blue in color.
Expanding on the dharma is indeed a great and complex task that requires a lot of factors. The main one being to untangle and uncover the precious knowledge.
I really appreciate the intention and the effort to spread the dharma. I wish you success in this practice and continuous learning! I am sure that your work will spark inspiration in many.
Amitabha
Those who wish to take the world and control it
I see that they cannot succeed
The world is a sacred instrument
One cannot control it
The one who controls it will fail
The one who grasps it will lose... - Tao Te Ching
Wonderful video sir! I have questions on suttas recommendations. Is there any suttas that talks about negative emotions like jealousy. Is there any suttas that talks about mental health problems like depression? Thanks!
I'm not sure that those exact concepts ever appear in the suttas; I'd have to research it to be sure. But the Buddha does talk about greed all the time, which would encompass jealousy, and he talks about dukkha that would encompass depression.
@@DougsDharma thanks for the reply! Is there any suttas which has most details of teachings of noble eightfold path?
Dear Doug, how does this mindful "checking in" of failures and successes differ or is an alternative to meditation?
It might be one approach we could take to mindfulness. Be mindful of our failures and successes.
Perhaps I'm cynical but we are not to spend time thinking of this life and not get attached to things, but here we need to study and look at what and how we think. Ok? is about wisdom and discernment and humility and selflessness.
The description of "judgement" by the Buddha bothers me here. Tersely, I see Karma as reaping what you sow AND I very much agree it's your motivation that is important but how it effects other also matters. This is similar the Christ's teaching. I just feel this to be very much like Christian teaching 'You going to Hell' talk. Is very important to me to know if Buddha said it or if it came later. (Similar to my experience of many Christian speakers I've heard who are not Christ like.) Is very important to me to know if Buddha said it or if it came later. This sutta does not seem to reflect Buddhas' writing....he's almost mean LOL. Some of his Suttas have mean characters but the stories are to teach a lesson. This is like a personal judgement made by the Buddha on another person. I have a problem with that. Even Christ who spoke of Hell also forgave every one....I guess it gets into judgement by a being that is perfect? I'm drawn to Buddhism because it does not have a judgement like my Christian walk....the judgement is the quality of your life AND future life(s) based on your actions and past life(s) actions. Maybe the "judgement" is you get reborn over and over and over, but this is not judgement it's existence; becoming what you seem determined to be by your actions and thoughts and emotions. These 'words of Buddha' really bother me. 'Your going to hell...' does he really know? Wish I knew if Buddha really said this. But if you are not sure I'm not going to try to find out. Sorry, a bit of a rant. Thanks for your work. Always helpful.
Yes, some of what we read the Buddha saying doesn't sound so nice, and in my own practice I tend to leave most such talk aside as unhelpful.
I heard this in one of Alan Watts’ talks: “let me save you from drowning said the monkey while taking the fish out of the water”. You can do evil by wholeheartedly trying to do good. I don’t think that was SBF’s case.
Yes I agree, and a good quote from Alan Watts.
When you give 5 credits to the homeless guy on Nar Shaadaa (KOTOR 2 référence I know)
I😊 didnt playp that game😢😂
@@pingas117 so basically what happens is if you make a light side playthrough you give him 5 credits (money) and then Kreia, your mentor who’s a Grey Jedi/Hidden Sith Lord, chastises you because your act of goodness was puerile, the homeless guy ends up mugged and killed for the money you gave him.
@@TheLostProphecies gg (good game) that sounds pretty similar to the examles in the video
is it true that primitive buddhism states that Sariputtra is still in the world?
I'm not sure what primitive Buddhism is, though early Buddhism doesn't think Sāriputta is still in the world, since he was an arahant.
Shakyamuni is still in the world since he is a Buddha, I met him a while ago. Buddhas never abandon sentient beings and have the power to recall even arahants from their spiritual coma so he would've certainly recalled Sariputtra who was one of his foremost students.
@@DougsDharma thank you. I must heard it in a very religious context.
Compassion without wisdom is at the very least misguided, at the very worst, it is dangerous.
I'm desperately looking for a job in order to save money, being independent, buy and/or build my own house, have my own business and finally get a girlfriend because right now women are not attracted to me, than marrying and having children. Do I want to get a job for wrong intentions therefore I'm not able to find a new one???
I can't say. But certainly if you look at the early suttas, the Buddha understood that laypeople had to make a living to support themselves and their families.
I believe it is quite foolish logic that expectations always lead to misery heartbreak Agony defeat depression stress anger or any other negative trait or emotion or thinking. It would seem to be the case that we had intentions growing up as far as what we would eat as well as all the different drinks. We had intentions of being in a loving kind supportive compassionate or otherwise empathetic family. After that we had intentions of getting into school and intentions for getting out of school we had intentions for getting into a romantic relationship friendship. And when we didn't stop there we had intentions for our selected religion or spirituality such as but not limited to Christianity Judaism Islam as well as the many different teachings of the Buddha. If we did not have intentions then why do we meditate oh yeah to clear our mind. We also had intentions of being happy other people have intentions for others for them to be nice kind supportive.
I'm not going to subscribe to this idea of how intentions lead to misery heartbreak Agony defeat depression anxiety stress or anger. It's abundantly obvious to me that this is a fallacy.
It's not that intentions or expectations always lead to bad results. It's that they can lead to bad results if we aren't mindful.
How you spell famouse? I want to be famouse. Faimouse Faymouse Famous Ok, got it.