How Paul, Not Jesus, Created Christian Baptism and the Eucharist
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- In this video interview with Derek Lambert @MythVisionPodcast, I present the case that it was Paul, not Jesus, who created Christian Baptism and the Eucharist--or "Lord's Supper," in a complete departure from the traditions of John the Baptizer as well as Jesus and his brother James, who succeeded him. For Paul both Baptism and the Eucharist were a mystical union with the cosmic body of Christ--which were completely different from the Jewish rites of initiatory immersion and the Messianic banquet of bread and wine. It is through these "sacraments" that Paul created the new religion that became Christianity.
I present this case in detail in my book, Paul and Jesus, with full analysis and documentation. Here is the Amazon link:
amzn.to/42Y7oj7
About Dr. Tabor: jamestabor.com/about
Academic Blog: jamestabor.com;
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There is something that Muslims and Christians alike believe in and that is the day of resurrection. That we will all stand before Almighty God and he will hold us accountable for what we have said and believed. And when I stand by this God one day and he would ask me: Why didn't you believe that I became human and died on the cross? If he would ask me that then I would tell him ''Oh Lord you are the Almighty, how could I believe that men have overpowered you and taken you captive, you are the judge of all men. How could I believe that men have judged you. You are the one who lives forever, how could I believe that you died! And would he Then punish me, I say honestly, I would not know what for, I couldn't understand it!
But now I imagine the alternative. What does someone do when he stands before God and he asks him: How could you believe that I, the Almighty, became a human being, that people judged me and killed me. What will he answer? And If he is punished, he will know exactly why.
Don't prostrate yourself before Jesus. Prostrate yourself before the one to whom Jesus prostrated himself
Great talk
James you are a damn smart man. Like Bart E. you explain this stuff in a way that makes me go "Oh Sh@T! He is right!" Thank you for your work man.
Yeah, but Bart E. is a jerk, while James is a deferential gentleman.
Man I really like that music! But content has been very interesting.
Thank you I truly appreciate your hard work. I see it the same way. Thanks again.
I'm completely distracted by the pewter candlestick holder or incense burner or something on the shelf behind Tabor's left shoulder (our right). It is about 40% of the way off the shelf and it is causing me anxiety. :-)
Relax. It's going to be ok
Thanks, that’s all I can see now.
@@Benjamin-jo4rf And you have that on good authority? 😉
Put in podcast mode, in your pocket
@@rhydyard yes. Absolutely. Not necessarily as the world sees "ok" though. Economy may crash, society may end as we know it, the institutional churchs may cease to exist, the USA empire may be crushed by an foreign government or its own problems but be everything is absolutely going to be ok.
Brilliant talk
I was raised in the Catholic church and was taught that the bread and wine turn into the actual body and blood of Jesus at the consecration during Mass. This is called transubstantiation.I never could wrap my head around this and therefore have stopped going to services as an adult.
Become a Protestant, we don't believe that. Historically it was justified by Aquinas by using Aristotle's metaphysics, but Aristotle's metaphysics is nonsense.
Thank you
I like how his videos start like star wars episodes
I always found eating Jesus's body and blood hard to swallow
🦗🦗🦗
I find it easy. It's consistent.
It is a devotional ritual, a sacrament. Don't worry about the dogma. It's mystical.
Pagan ritual..
Clearly!
Then do not follow Satanism and Paul. Follow Jesus and our Father in Heaven.
2 Timothy :4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
"and shall be turned unto fables." - sort of like the nativity/genealogy parts in a couple of the canonical gospels.
@@TheDanEdwards Oh a believer in impossible odds, how quaint !
Wasn't it John the Baptist that was baptizing with water prior to Jesus started his ministry? Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist with water and the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus. Didn't Jesus talk of being reborn of water and spirit?
John the Baptist was in prison according to Luke's Gospel so John the Baptist couldn't have baptized Jesus. John's Gospel is silent concerning whether or not Jesus was baptized.
The Gospels all contradict.
I don't know who this Tabor guy is but he's obviously way off. You can find Philip baptizing the new believers in Samaria in Acts 8:12
This is when Paul is still Saul of Tarsus and not saved yet.
@@scottb4579 Saul/Paul never changed his name. Many Jews had two names during this time. Saul was his Hebrew name and Paûlos was his Greek name.
The author of Luke/Acts switches names and gives no reason for it.
@icypirate11 Are you sure? I mean, the God of the Israelites changed people's names at least a few times: Abram to Abraham and Jacob to Israel. But even God has dementia (God told Jacob that his name would be Israel and no longer Jacob, but later God screamed, " Jacob, Jacob, where are you?")
@@kalords5967 The Pentateuch was compiled together from multiple sources by redactors. There are many doublets (sometimes triplets & quadruplets) in the Pentateuch. Two creation stories, two flood stories, two groups of people Joseph is sold to, two stories of Hagar talking with an angel, two covenants with Abram/Abraham, two times Abram/Abraham lied about his wife/sister, two accounts of Jacob/Israel, etc. This list of doublets is quite large. The Bible switches back and forth between the names Yahweh and Elohim, likewise it switches between Jacob and Israel. The Documentary Hypothesis (JEDP) best explains this phenomenon.
Question; how does the account in John, where Jesus said my blood is good drink, fit?
Thank you for presenting the question. This seems to be a glaring omission in this presentation.
@@mmss3199 refitting or maybe clarifying what was originally meant as he had observed how the first writing had been received.
You seem to see any remake as malicious not a verifying change.
Right?!?
Also Tabor is hyper critical of these texts supposedly… but when it comes to the teachings of John the Baptist he thinks those are concrete?
What verse? Did Jesus really say it?
From Philippe ,in Rosicrucian order it is Moria-El that created baptism in Moriah lac in the province of Fayum ,the result was illumination
I have a hard time believing that baptism or the lord's supper ... Good discussion!
Many thanks for sharing your wisdom and knowledge 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Jesus said to take the bread and wine in remembrance of his body and blood, so it's different than a regular meal or the pass over. They met on the Lord's Day each week to do this
John's Mikveh was also one of ritual cleansing. Not for going up to the physical temple, but in cleansing and preparation for the soul and the body itself to become the temple of God.
Satan first used the word ‘apostle’ when he said “he would send his apostles to deceive mankind” (CH8:35)
Today in translation it has become synonymous but in the beginning it was not so
A disciple is one who follows , Paul did not follow.
What does CH stand for?
"CH 8:35"
@@AnHebrewChild Clementine Homilies contain the alternative narrative pre 325ad. Rome invented Pauline Christianity after killing the true followers in the Colosseum etc
The early disciples of the way were not Christian which is the religion of Rome that emerged later and prevailed. This is why the gospel of the kingdom is preached at the end because its the true gospel that was suppressed and over-written by Rome.
@@malcolmdavid722 thank you. And I'm thankful that you wrote all of that to me in explanation. It shows that there's still people out there who care.
You seem like a good person. And I try to follow what Jesus taught/teaches and not what the churches or pastors teach
Thank you good sir.
@@AnHebrewChild
My advice, look outside the Judeo Roman bible for confirmation and dont forget good history (to quote Dr Tabor) is not the enemy of a devoted faith !!
@@malcolmdavid722 "look outside the Judeo Roman bible..." : The Upanishads.
I have read MANY books on the DSS. Barbara Thiering resonated with me and I give her credit for me leaving organized religion including the Noahide community.
One of the great artist painted John on the lap of Mary with Jesus by her side....I think it is either DaVinci or Michaelangelo.
Great someone who truly trying to understand, and those commenting all searching for truth, fat better than blind followers of an institutional erroneous definitive.
my fav schollar at the moment.
I believe John the disciple was referring to what John the Baptist said and did when Jesus was baptised. Not his opinion on it.
“Lord and Savior, Tabor!” That made me laugh out loud!
Actually, cringeworthy moment.
@@SapphicTwist LOL!
It's always great when this host shuts his pie hole and allows Dr Tabor to speak.
@@herringbone72 did you see Tabor cringe when he called him King of the Jews? That made me laugh out loud, literally
@@xifangyangren9997 I saw that.
Rebbi James, King of the Tabors
I think you are right about the sacrament coming from Paul, so does that mean Mark got it from Paul?
A question Professor Tabor - As a jewish woman I know our customs.
Could you explain why in the three synoptic gospels Jesus first blesses for the bread and only then for the wine, when our custom is to do it just the opposite??
Jesus took nazerite vow......he didn't drink wine.
@@Servant2112 can you refer me to where it is written, because if he blessed for the wine and didn't drink from it it's even worse. It is 'saying a blessing in vain', which is a transgression.
Good question. Just a thought, but tradition can change over time. Perhaps blessing the bread first was ok to do back then. Or perhaps Jesus did that purposefully for some reason unknown to you and me.
@@youngknowledgeseeker
You refer to it as 'tradition' when it's not. It is part of the oral law that was handed down with the written law at mount Sinai and it has been practiced this way for at least 2500 years.
Another problem is that this according to the synoptic gospels was the Passover dinner, when we drink 4,(!) glasses of wine. Why is that not mentioned at all.
And the unleveled bread that is served has a different name, not 'bread' but Matzo. That too is not mentioned.
@@pazrahamim9220 Thats a good question, but with all due respect, why would it need to be mentioned? The gospels arent exhaustive lists of every thing they could possibly write down. The authors wrote down what they thought would help the flow of their narrative and for what they thought was essential for their audience to know/understand. John for example tells us at the end of his gospel that Jesus said and did ALOT more than what is written down. Too much to write.
Sorry, I'm not too familiar with the oral law or its history. I didn't mean to offend if I did. If what your saying is correct as I said their might be a reason we are just not aware of as to why he blessed the bread first.
De Tabor is so patient with Derek’s stupid comments.
Lol. Funny cuz its true. I predict great things from Derek in the future. He is making mistakes as fast as he can learn from them. One day, he may know more than all of us.
To be fair, I think myself Derek often asks simple questions for the benefit of the audience.
I have been watching his stuff and I know myself sometimes on some of the newer videos he publishes, he is familiar with the material already (from prior videos) and I would guess but asks basic questions anyway because:
1. They’re good questions
2. Some people need catch up, so everyone’s up to speed for the content to come
3. Some level of review is probably good, probably helps context and understanding.
Bottom line : I’m pretty convinced he asks questions many times for the benefit of the audience.
@@spykezspykez7001 I agree with your premise, but his enthusiasm and cadence can annoy outside of the content of the question. It's almost as if his timing is off. It's hard to put a finger on. But you can't deny Tabor's grace in dealing with him.
I'd agree with Mr. Tabor that one has to examine themselves after excepting Christ. The reason is that the vice energies of the spirit within being Kundalini and ones chakras tend to show up in the awoken individual and manifest itself within ones psychee and the personality. You start seeing an unhealthy ego manifest. This is why praying and meditation was so huge out at qumran. The teachings of John the Baptist and later Paul were to help the awoken individual after the ritual deal with ones own Kundalini. Many people would say your full of it, and no I'm not. This is what christians refuse to explain and what was happening in ancient days. These things were also happening in Zoroastrianism and other abhrahamic faiths as well. Zoroastrianism uses different terms for the talking of good and bad spirit and leaves out the name Kundalini because they didn't term it Kundalini.
That was very incoherent. Is American English your first language?
It was Apollos who only knew John's baptism, not Priscilla and Aquila. P & A taught him the updated info.
Early in the twentieth century there was a man of about 20 in Indonesia named Mohammed Subu who was walking home one night. He said a “ball of light” came from above him in the sky and entered him. He began to shake and hurried home to his parents house and lay down on his bed because he thought he was dying. Minutes went by and he began to vibrate with a strange energy. The energy compelled him to get up and go through his Muslim prayers. This began happening every night at the same time, he would vibrate with this energy which would compel him to do his prayers. It also induced intense ecstasy.
After some time, he found that if he stood near people and let this energy take him over, they also would come under its power and experience intense ecstasy in the nervous system. Eventually hundreds of people were practicing in this way. He started a movement called SUBUD.
How big a movement was this? When Barack Obama’s mother lived in Indonesia, she was a member.
Mohammed Subu said, “I’m not a saint or anything. This is just a manifestation of the power of God in this era.”
Why am I telling you this? I think this was identical to the experience Jesus Christ had when he was baptized, the “holy spirit” came from the sky above and entered him and “drove him into the wilderness.” I think the stuff about the voice and the dove were written over the real event later, the spoken line was from an old book of the Bible and the dove came from Noah and symbolized a new beginning.
There’s nothing new under the sun. this is a very unusual experience he had but not an exclusive one. it is, however, exceedingly mysterious. google it: SUBUD, Mohammed subu, also sometimes nicknamed, "Bapak." weird? other worldly? you bet.
just another bahai - guy
What about cloud baptism? We know what it is and any personal reports? No one can make that happen except the most high God.
There is a bath…and then you do Mikvah.
This is important to see things as they would have seen.
I agree with you. I enjoy tabor immensely but he doesn't seem to understand the faith part or the mystical things. He doesn't seem to trust in believe in the whole story of the Scriptures. I enjoy mystic vision guy also but I don't agree with them on the way they interpret scriptures and that's fine. I eat the meat and spit out the bones. Michael Heiser is an interesting alternative to go along with The Tabor view on things but I don't agree with him on theological interpretations of like the literal need nowadays to literally follow the commandments of the new testament such as the sermon on the mount and women's head covering and every commandment of the New Testament. Jesus said few will even find the gate to the narrow road. I really do enjoy these Tabor Talks being uploaded recently
@@Benjamin-jo4rf You don't think we are supposed to obey Jesus commands and words in the New Testament? Including the words of his Apostles?
@@youngknowledgeseeker The question in return is to ask why? Why should you obey what is written in a book that has so many questions as to it’s authenticity. If someone like Dr. Tabor or any other historian can show you writings (that are just as authentic in our ability to prove such) that contradict or call into question the texts of the canonical bible, where does one then draw the lines of absolutes? What then are you to obey? What really was Jesus’s message? How absolute are you in your certainty that what you read is what was originally said?
One has to either open “pandoras box” and look at all available sources of information and come to their own conclusion as to what is the truth, or put blinders on and deny anything that is not “canonical” and then subscribe to the church doctrine of your choosing, and obey.
@@Jake-zc3fk Thanks for your reply but I was asking Ben. Secondly, i'm Christian, but you're preaching to the choir. Why do you think I'm even on this channel watching this video and seeking scholarship.
@@youngknowledgeseeker oh no I definitely do. But I don't think Michael does
Paul cancelled all the commands, he thinks he is too good for it. Jesus said I came to fulfill the commands not to cancel it.
Is jhon better than Jesus if he baptized Jesus?
No he didn't. I can't believe how much slander Paul gets. I know you didn't mean to, it was what was taught to you.
Anyway, Paul's viewpoint wasn't that Christians are lawless or that all commands are canceled. Paul thought Jesus gave a "New" covenant. Almost like Jesus is a new Moses, giving new commands. Some of which were the same as Moses some which weren't or were new. Paul thought that the "works of the law" that were "fleshly" identifiers of Israel were canceled. Circumcision-Food Law-Holy Days. He never thought things like do not murder, do not steal, do not be sexually immoral were canceled. He warned those will affect your salvation. He however stressed that circumcision, food laws and holy day keeping no longer affect salvation because God is not requiring that right now. He though Jesus didn't require it, he thought only obeying Jesus's words now affect salvation.
If we don’t know whether the rabbinic conversion mikva existed in the 1st century, how can rely on it as a precedent for Christian baptism?
If we don’t have this evidence of precedence, and we have ample evidence that rabbinic Judaism was making very similar spiritualization of past Jewish practices as Christianity was making, why could not this Jewish “baptism” be a practice borrowed from Christianity?
I think it’s possibly true that Paul invented the Eucharist, as we know it now, however, in addition to the fact that he states several times in his letters that he is revealing new revelation from Christ, it’s also true that Jesus Christ himself gave the Passover meal to his apostles while also changing its meaning very clearly into his body and his blood.
I believe it’s in the gospel of John that Christ double down on the people when they were repulsed at him saying that his followers had to eat his body and drink his blood. And he doubled down saying if you don’t do this you have no part or fellowship with him. Therefore I think Paul’s invention if you want to call it that, is rooted in Christ’s teaching.
Part of Tabor's narrative to debunk traditional Bible based (not confessional) Christianity, exaggerating conflicts and division where there was just the growing pains of the early church which consisted of Spirit-filled, Christ-as-God worshipping, loving believers - not perfect but generally united - yes, with some weeds among the wheat as Jesus foretold. Dismiss Paul as a major weed and inventor of "Christianity" (in favour of less trustworthy "gospels") and you can invent your own version.
The NT gospels are loaded with allegory and metaphor. Later literalized and edited by the Catholic church. Jesus never said to actually eat his flesh or drink his blood. The flesh meant the to consume the Words of Truth from the Father. And drink the blood meant we are to be pressed like grapes and drink in the spirit of YHWH. It was metaphorical as is almost everything in the gospel story. Especially the birth narrative.
The "eucharist" was just a Passover meal, part of a the celebration of the Hebrews' deliverance from slavery in Egypt. So it would be wine and bread. Nor is it transformed into "God's flesh and blood" (whatever that might mean) because "the flesh is useless; it is the breath [of life]."
"Do this in memory of me"
Jesus to Catholics.
James tabor and the rest can intellectualize all they want, we know what he meant.
💚🧡🙏
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” Matt 28:18
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.”
Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:26
We don't need to be Bible rocket scientists, just read it yourself and see what it actually says, then discern who is inventing things.
" just read it yourself and see what it actually says, then discern who is inventing things." - and many of us have done that, and concluded:
1) the author of "Mark" invented things;
2) the authors of "Matthew" and "Luke" invented quite a lot of things.
3) Saul/Paul invented some things, mostly he was obsessed;
4) Paul's followers invented a lot of things, including letters forged in Paul's name;
... and so on.
The Spirit is alive in the failures of men to still provide a Way and a Door for those who seek truth. This Way is Jesus. The discovery of these things does not notify this fact it only supports and enforces it. It seems most of the scholars who critically think about the actual nuts and bolts of how we got the product that we have today lose their faith in sight of this very easily. I salute them for their wandering through these paths because even when they are lost, they are a light!
@@TheDanEdwards
Can you please show who were the followers of Paul? And what was exactly invented by them?
@@georgemartinez8033
The only Bible author who claimed to have seen Jesus is Paul who asserted that he met him in a vision and described Jesus as being only a bright light. His companions did not see what he claimed to have seen. Paul actually stated that his sources were non-human, "...the gospel I preached is not of human origin." (Galatians 1:11-12). Paul further asserted that Jesus selected him alone to speak for him (Acts 9:15): "Paul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings as well as to the people of Israel." In Romans 1:16 Paul reveals that no other gospels existed at the time, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ."
The Jesus story began in 48 AD with the first of the Pauline Epistles (which comprise nearly half of the New Testament books) when Paul realized the Daniel 9:25 prophesy of a messiah expired without fulfilling so he made one up decades later and set the story decades in the past matching Jewish expectations of the messiah to make the prophesy seem true.
The fulfillment of the Daniel 9:25 prophecy written in 444 BC was the test of the true messiah. By 48 AD it was known that the prophecy of a messiah coming in "seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" had not occurred on the prophesied date. It was the 69th Week and the 70th Week was soon to come. The prophesied messiah was expected and the anticipation set off a messiah craze.
"Seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" is, 7 plus 60 plus 2 equals 69 total weeks. One prophetic week equals seven biblical years of 360 days (the Julian calendar was created centuries later), so 7 times 69 equals 483 total biblical years beginning with Artaxerxes' decree in 444 BC to Nehemiah to finish the wall at Jerusalem. Those 483 biblical years equal 173,880 days, or 476 Julian years. Therefore the Messiah would come and be "cut off" in AD 33. One prophetic week equaling seven Biblical years is something “Daniel” invented in about 165 BC, effectively an admission that Jeremiah 25:11-12 failed.
Paul made up the entire Jesus story and added historical figures, locations, and events to add authenticity.
In the Galatians "road to Damascus" conversion vision tale written in 48 AD he claimed to have gone to the Arabian desert to study the Old Testament for 17 years to align with the Daniel 9:25 prophecy.
Paul's goal was to garner support for the insurrection against the Romans which began in 46 AD led by two brothers, Jacob and Simon, in the Judea province. The revolt, mainly in the Galilee, began as sporadic insurgency until it climaxed in 48 AD when it was quickly put down by Roman authorities. Both Simon and Jacob were executed.
He created the fiction of having witnessed the risen messiah. He wanted to show that the messiah had come as prophesied but was murdered by the Romans. This was to entice the Gentiles to aid in the Jews' rebellion against the Romans.
@@georgemartinez8033
The only Bible author who claimed to have seen Jesus is Paul who asserted that he met him in a vision and described Jesus as being only a bright light. His companions did not see what he claimed to have seen. Paul actually stated that his sources were non-human, "...the gospel I preached is not of human origin." (Galatians 1:11-12). Paul further asserted that Jesus selected him alone to speak for him (Acts 9:15): "Paul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings as well as to the people of Israel." In Romans 1:16 Paul reveals that no other gospels existed at the time, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ."
The Jesus story began in 48 AD with the first of the Pauline Epistles (which comprise nearly half of the New Testament books) when Paul realized the Daniel 9:25 prophesy of a messiah expired without fulfilling so he made one up decades later and set the story decades in the past matching Jewish expectations of the messiah to make the prophesy seem true.
The fulfillment of the Daniel 9:25 prophecy written in 444 BC was the test of the true messiah. By 48 AD it was known that the prophecy of a messiah coming in "seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" had not occurred on the prophesied date. It was the 69th Week and the 70th Week was soon to come. The prophesied messiah was expected and the anticipation set off a messiah craze.
"Seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" is, 7 plus 60 plus 2 equals 69 total weeks. One prophetic week equals seven biblical years of 360 days (the Julian calendar was created centuries later), so 7 times 69 equals 483 total biblical years beginning with Artaxerxes' decree in 444 BC to Nehemiah to finish the wall at Jerusalem. Those 483 biblical years equal 173,880 days, or 476 Julian years. Therefore the Messiah would come and be "cut off" in AD 33. One prophetic week equaling seven Biblical years is something “Daniel” invented in about 165 BC, effectively an admission that Jeremiah 25:11-12 failed.
Paul made up the entire Jesus story and added historical figures, locations, and events to add authenticity.
In the Galatians "road to Damascus" conversion vision tale written in 48 AD he claimed to have gone to the Arabian desert to study the Old Testament for 17 years to align with the Daniel 9:25 prophecy.
Paul's goal was to garner support for the insurrection against the Romans which began in 46 AD led by two brothers, Jacob and Simon, in the Judea province. The revolt, mainly in the Galilee, began as sporadic insurgency until it climaxed in 48 AD when it was quickly put down by Roman authorities. Both Simon and Jacob were executed.
He created the fiction of having witnessed the risen messiah. He wanted to show that the messiah had come as prophesied but was murdered by the Romans. This was to entice the Gentiles to aid in the Jews' rebellion against the Romans.
Normal speed…..engage 😊
Lol are you a chronic 1.25 and 1.5xer too?
@@montylane2488 Dr. Tabor also informed me that he’s “not a chipmunk”. Lol.
Let's not forget Acts 24 verse 5 on Paul bring the" ringleader of the sect of the Nazarene...!!!
Wow - my “Flavian hypothesis” conspiracy speculation radar is triggered SO hard by this. Paul was a Roman Roman agent !!
Honestly speaking it are mithraic customs, a ritual bathing and a communal shared meal that made it into christianity . further more the episcopal structure (the phrygian style red-capped bishops ) were a mithraic heritage too ,
Christians practice Pauls religion. Not the religion of Jesus.
Jesus despised religion and loved truth.
These situations in Paul's story seem to reflect moments in the gospels' life of Jesus (baptism here, but storms at sea come to mind also, etc.). There is a case to suggest that Paul might have been taking over the Jesus-job... I mean provocatively.
But the gospels come after paul and they are influenced by pauls letters thats the issue you are not getting
Study the gospel and u will see, original jesus message would be the Q source which the gospel writers took here and their and added to their gospels
SO what was Peter doing in Acts 2? Having a swim meet? And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you’” (Luke 22:19-20). - Yeshua
And the other things simply ask. Where did this tradition come from? If they came from Caesar and Rome. Then let the things of Caesar stay with Caesar and Rome. In the pit they belong in. Things do tend to flock to their own kind. So let the things and practices of God belong to him and his people. And let every gate keeper know his hand will be broken with the rest of him. And what will be left is worse than the pit he crawled out from.
NO. What about John the Baptist to go before? What about the Last Supper.
For sure - Jesus introduced the first Communion, and commanded the Baptism tradition, In the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to continue. One just has to read the entire New Testament, not that hard to do, then it becomes really clear when people today try to invent stories.
I don't know who this Tabor guy is but he's obviously way off. You can find Philip baptizing the new believers in Samaria in Acts 8:12
This is when Paul is still Saul of Tarsus and not saved yet.
Ritual.
Some long and bizarre, even painful.
Part of what Freud would refer to as trying to re-establish order, perhaps on the obaessive-compulsive disorder line.
Also, such rituals demonstrated to other believers that you too had skin in the game in order to be trusted.
A great episode ... one seeing you expose the fact that, of course, the rites of both the Christian Baptism and the Eucharist are of post-Yeshua origin concocted by either the surviving "apostles" or Saul (Paul)... or perhaps the result of an amalgamation by Saul of both. As you kinda point out, no one is mentioned baptizing Saul. Were indeed such a new religion real, originated by Yeshua, Himself, thus making such Baptism requisite to becoming a member thereof, a religion Saul claimed to be leading himself, he would most certainly have recorded his own fulfillment of that requirement.
As becomes so glaringly obvious to all who study the Gospels exegetically, the historical Yeshua was never about creating a new religion, thus why it was not He who created it. Nor was He any sort of Davidic or priestly "messiah" figure, much less a "Savior" to the world... all of which were additional false claims concocted by His false disciples for the sole purpose of personally benefiting their power lust and greed. None of these were His true mission here... nor were ANY of His parables related to any such. As His "apostles" couldn't figure those parables out, they were thus never part of Yeshua's true inner circle of disciples (Mark Ch. 4, vss.10-12)... thus why those false "apostles" were, in fact, those Yeshua deliberately left behind as the wolves-in-sheep's-clothing they were when, at His true "Second Coming" in Galilee following His crucifixion, Yeshua arrived like a "thief in the night" and left Israel along with all His true disciples, including Mary Magdalene and Salome, never to be heard from again.
What no one has yet figured out, unfortunately, is that Yeshua was also not a failed apocalyptic prophet nor any sort of charismatic political seditionist. Who and what He truly was... what the real "Kingdom of God" was and still is, also... have been glaringly obvious, staring us in the face throughout history dating all the way back through the Tanakh (Old Testament) to the days of Abraham, himself... and still no one sees or understands either. Soon enough, the historical truth hiding in plain sight all these millennia will be revealed.
This has to be the dumbest take.
What kind of "lust and greed" comes with a guarantee of being constantly chased by people trying to kill you, being ostracised by your community, and having an untimely and gruesome death?
@@adifferentangle7064 a bit harsh
Apart from that specific and opinionated critique, the whole reasoning remains valid.
Your answer is not a rebuttal to his arguments.
@@ckotty That's right. It's a rhetorical question.
If you answer the rhetorical question, you should see exactly why my response is not in the form of a rebuttal.
I wonder who invented bath towels
If Jesus and John were there in fact maternal cousins then weren't they fulfilling Priest & King by the same Davidic blood?
I think what seemed left out was the importance of the ritual cleansing to the Qumran sect/Essenes. Compared to the other Jewish sect it was just so extremely important, based on the severity of their punishments, to be sinless. Their ritual cleansing was to remove impurities. How they studied the skies looking for prophesies. This was a community that seemed to believe very much in what Catholics now call mediation. Ways in which the spiritual world interacts with the material world. This to me is the more logical foundation for the Jesus movement thinking of water Baptist as mediation with the spiritual world, the Holy Spirit.
Compared to the ritual baths of Qumran the Holy meal was way more important. It took years to be able to participate in the meal. If one was found to sin, they couldn’t participate in the meal for months or years. The blessed daily bread and wine was the most important part of that community. Just like Dr Tabor pointed out the evidence shows that was the same for early Christians. It is still the most important sacrament to Catholics. I know how much people just want to believe Catholics got it all wrong and are nothing like Jesus and the apostles or early Christians, but the evidence increasingly seems to point the opposite direction.
Even if one takes the position that there is nothing divine about it. It seems most logical that John the Baptist was an Essene. It’s their Baptism that the Jesus movement used. That their extremely important Holy meal tradition, stayed the most important tradition throughout the movement, into early Christianity and continues in Catholicism.
Dr Tabor likes to think Paul is the originator or elevator of the Jewish ideas to more transcendent or mystical meanings or events. I think with the Dead Sea Scrolls those ideas were around well before Paul.
Now where I might agree with Dr. Tabor’s sentiment is that maybe Paul’s transcendence is too distant. His idea of the spiritual realm as far off and apart from this material plane. I think that where the 12 would have pushed back on Paul’s view and said no, there is another realm, but it’s right here and right now.
I think the reason why the Essene’s are thought to be such a small fringe group is because they weren’t mentioned in the Bible. So most people think they must have been a very small fringe group. I think the reason they weren’t mentioned in the the gospels is because they didn’t refute Jesus as the messiah. Instead they welcomed him in and made him their leader. How many Essene’s were there at the time? Couple hundred in Qumran? Josephus said about 4000 holy men. How many common Jews listened to or sympathized with their teachings? Did Jesus step in and take control of a preexisting community. Did he keep their hierarchy, adjust their traditions and precepts and lead them. The community continued after his death and were the early Christians. Then and now Catholics.
Maybe the Catholic Church had sinners amongst them over the ages. Some of those in the highest positions of power. But maybe tightly held religious traditions are far more preservable than people want to believe they are.
I call Rome's religion when Rome empire taken power over Christians. So over Paul, Over Jesus message. So a perverted one. But Christians stood in Jesus, James, Mary , John, Paul, teachings, over the perverted Rome. That's strange that in my family, my parents were part of a Christian group, in Jesus, and not so in Catholic narrative, as if we were baptized in a catholic church. So 2000 years of human power on the institution, did not affect the pure message, because Jesus is in Us, as he was in Paul. There's no way lies can win.
Thought provoking. I'm sure it's already been done by many scholars more thorough and better than me but I can't wait to study Catholic and Orthodox early history and see where the traditions and practices stem from. I'm sure they preserve many ancient, even 1st century, traditions and outlooks.
There are some traditions of Catholocism and Orthodoxy that seem to be at severe odds with the New Testament and perhaps early Christianity however. The Trinity, the deity of Jesus, the concept of humans having an immortal conscious soul/spirit, their outlook on heaven and hell and what they are and how they function to the believer are among a few views that seem to purely be from their tradition and not at all inherent in the Bible or early Christianity. Perhaps God revealed these things to the church by progressive revelation. Otherwise they are simply at odds with the New Testament and Hebrew Bible.
@@youngknowledgeseeker since the dead sea’s scrolls weren’t released from the private group allowed to study them until 1991 it’s surprisingly still relatively new scholarship. Turning the ship of hundreds of years of scholarship on the time of Jesus doesn’t happen quickly.
In the Dead Sea scrolls I didn’t find any insights into the trinity. The scroll of messianic rule references Daniel and the messiah being the son of man a lot and clearly. When Jesus calls himself the son of man in Luke I don’t think it could have been more clear to the people of the time he was saying that he was divine. The Essene’s believed in immortal spirits.
The Dead Sea scrolls has a group of messianic Jews talking about going to the wilderness to make ready the path for the messiah. They see themselves as the truly Orthodox Jews that weren’t corrupted. They have a leader, then celibate bishops and priest. They cleanse with water for the forgiveness of sins. They preach to the poor and heal the sick. They have a council of 12 that leaves the community to spread their teachings. They have a daily holy meal of bread and wine. This Holy meal is the most important tradition to the community.
Then in the Gospels John the Baptist is in the wilderness making ready the way for the messiah. He recognizes Jesus as he. No where in the gospels does Jesus have to defend himself from essenes questioning his teaching or if he is the messiah. He does have to do that with the Pharisees and Sadducee’s.
Then the early Christian Jews have the same church structure, clergy and traditions. The Catholic Church still has the clergy and church structure the essene’s had 100’s of years before Jesus. The Catholic Church’s Sacraments are the traditions the Essenes had 100’s of years before Jesus.
Even for non believers it seems that eventually when the knowledge of the Essenes becomes more well known and widely study the logical conclusion is this group is most like early Christians and modern Catholics. Whether Jesus was really God or not he probably took over leadership of the Essenes who became called Christians.
@@josephposenecker9741 Thanks for the reply. I'm responding as I'm reading so I'll be editing this post and adding more as I go along.
The first thing I'd want to highlight is that being "divine" or "heavenly" is ok. It's fine. Yet it's not the same thing as being God, the true God. Though in English we have the conception that divine=God we then, unfortunately and anachronistically, assume the authors of the Bible thought that way as well. Unless I'm mistaken, heavenly beings (like "Angels") in general were "divine" but no one thought that meant they were literally the one God or equal to him. So if the "son of man" is divine great! I'm all for it, but it has nothing to do with being the one, true, all-powerful, most high, creator God.
Immortal spirit dogma is not a hill I'd necessarily die on, though I might fight a decent battle there. Immortal spirit needs to be unpacked a bit. First of all I understand that "spirit" means either breath/vital life force from God or the inner mind (also it refers to heavenly beings or beings without bodies). In the Old Testament I don't think there is even a hint of a mention of our spirits being immortal. God gives us it, and then it may go back to him at death. Is it breath though or conscious thought? In the New Testament it's pretty much the same as above. Spirits are never said to be immortal or to be our consciousness surviving after death. 99% of the time death is referred to as sleep and basically nothingness devoid almost of even God. 1% of scripture in the Old and New Testament may imply consciousness survives death, like the rich man and Lazarus (though most translators themselves title this as a "parable"). Interesting about the Essenes believing in Immortal spirits. I would first ask what did they mean by Immortal spirits and also how did they come to their conclusion.
Yes I can't wait to learn more about the Dead Sea Scroll Community or if they truly were John the Baptizers group. I had thought that there were some dissimilarities they found of the Community and Christianity as recorded in the New Testament however and not just all similarities. I think you couldn't poop in the community or on holy days? Ritual purity was gigantic for them whereas Paul just Shrugs that off and Jesus is ok with touching lepers and women with blood. I'm not too educated on them though so you may know more than me.
@@youngknowledgeseeker the reference to “the son of man” in Daniel and then restated in Dead Sea Scrolls literature is the son of man seated at the right hand of the father. You’re right it doesn’t make the trinitarian claim, but it does make the claim of a unique being second only to God. Again Jews at that time would have seen it as human claiming to be God himself.
The Hebrew word in the Dead Sea scrolls is the Greek word pneuma which meant kind of like light substance. They also consider air and wind to be pneuma. It was substance of the lightest weight. I mean people thought the spirit had weight into the 1900’s. It was not the Greek word logos meaning word/reason/mind/consciousness. But in the Sects writings is says their spirits will join the angles in eternal life.
James Baptised Jesus
The Jesus figure has the halo.
28:56 "It's a beautiful thing." And that's why this guy is better than Joel Osteen, James Robison, anyone of the Falwells, Russian Metropolitan Kiril, etc..
Paul kind of instead of persecution of Christianity he changed it ,wrote the rule book and excluded people,the opposite of christ,
We are to follow the Spirit of Truth not the man speaking the words of Truth. The Spirit of Truth is the way truth and life. No one gets to the Father unless they are born of the Fathers Spirit.
The Baptism of John was different to Christian baptism.
John's baptism was to ready a people for the Messiah. It was only for the Jews.
Christian baptism is for a person who wants to be a DISCIPLE of Jesus. Anyone around the world can become one.
(Matthew 28:19) Go, therefore, and make DISCIPLES of people of ALL THE NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,
Not sure what agenda these charlatans have. Probably fulfilling this prophecy about the last days.
(2 Timothy 3:13) But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
Amen - and clearly Jesus initiated the first communion at the Last Supper. (Matt 26:26). These new inventions can be debunked easily by reading thru the New Testament - including Apostle Paul's material. Next this fellow will claim Paul died for our sins, and rose from the dead.
Brother, Islamic charlatan agenda against Christians is massive.
The anti Christian propaganda Muslims use to poison their followers is breathtaking.
This is helped by the fact that in the Christian world, free speech and free thought allows anyone at all to critique and even insult Christianity.
Muslims like Paul Williams takes this anti Christian polemic whole sale from Western Liberals,atheists and use it to brainwash their followers against Christianity.
As Christians we don't have to be silent. We have to confront these sons of lies Boot for boot.
@@markalfa-narh8434 : Matthew 7:15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them..........18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.
20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
People who are gullible enough to fall for these charlatans probably like it.
This is the 21st Century. There is no excuse not to check things.
This prophecy is being fulfilled.
2 Timothy 4:3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.
Put in a nutshell. People will hang onto these teachers who tell them WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. Not the truth.
The laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost is the second "baptism". They couldn't get that until after Jesus left the earth.
Why after? JC and the spirit are separate unless youre saying logos and sophia are a syzygy.
@@michaelkaiser1864 John 14:
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jesus in John allso baptised people even more than John. So what was Jesuss baptism??
Consuming the body and blood of anyone, Even symbolically, goes against the Hebrew bible.
Good topic. I like the way Dr. Tabor uses the texts. Paul the conman invented the fake God of the NT.
MVP rocks.
Hey smart guy ... Talk about the holy spirit
The false movement of Christi-anity has actually prophesied its own identity Anti-christ
It contradicts what Messiah means, to be blessed, one can not be God, it means an otherwise normal person gains or inherits a blessing bestowed on them from Above.
But if the false christian claim he came from above is made, that contradicts the meaning of being blessed at its root core meaning, hense claiming this is anti christ !
I think one means Christendom. Not Christianity.
No Christian believes that the Messiah is God himself.
@tongakhan230
Wrong all trinitian christians by definition, believe the person they call jesus is part of what makes up their godhead.
It's their false doctrine that makes them christians, which clearly states this. That they believe a man is god
@@ohfft : The Trinity my friend, was a fulfillment of this Prophecy.
(Acts 20:30) and from AMONG YOU YOURSELVES men will rise and SPEAK TWISTED THINGS to draw away the disciples after themselves.
The apostasy happened after the death of the Apostles. The church systems with their priests run by the State came into being.
Jesus has his True Disciples on earth today.
They are involved in the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14.
DISCIPLES of someone are NOT his worshipers.
(John 13:35) By this all will know that you are MY DISCIPLES-if you have love among yourselves.”
I hope this helps.
@tongakhan230
The trinity is a part of the abomination of desolation, a way of destroying the true understanding of what being blessed in life really means, and meant to those blessed individuals within the community of humanity who overcame evil.
These people who follow the false doctrine of christi-anity have been sadly deluded into believing these lies, from these incorrect translations of words that did not even mean what is being chaimed by this false religions.
Thrse christian beliefs are nothing less than pagan idolatry. Those who believe this rubbish are so lost in darkness and have no comprehension of who The One True Creator is, or what finding the true way back to him even means. Even though it's written there at the start of the book, they call Genesis.
Being like gods to know what good and evil is not the same thing as actually being God! Which is demanding people to reach up to arrive back to Him!
Sadly it is these christian organisations sitting where they have no right to be, propagating all these lies that block the way for so many otherwise loving caring people to reach that higher place.
@@ohfft : That is what I stated. The Trinity is an abomination.
Why not actually read my comments. It was to help clarify what the term Christianity really IS..
This man never make the distinction between John the baptist water baptism and Jesus holy Spirit baptism ( born from Heaven) obtain by faith trough grace.
water living defined in revelation is spirit living
immerse yourself in water living, to immerse yourself in the spirit of life
your spirit is your personality, who you are
the soul is mind, where the spirit lives
people without a spirit are dead spiritually
they turned that into splashing water and saving yourself
Pontius Pialte called paul a logic chopping jew for a reason
Paul McCartney did? 🤓
What about infant baptism? I'm of the Reformed church teachings, although at this time, I question many things. One is infant baptism. If baptism is a "sign" of your repentance, then infants should NOT be baptized. But RCA and CRC say that infant baptism is a sign and seal of God's covenant and that the child's parents are then tasked with training the child in the way of Christianity, eventually making confession of faith. I strongly agree that baptism is for believers ONLY. I think infant baptism is completely built upon speculation maybe guessing what one verse in the bible says (No, I don't recall "Book, Chapter and Verse(s)" where a man believed in Yeshu'a 'and "he was baptized, and his house." The thought is there were young children (or maybe infants) present in the house. Again, pure speculation. Now, there may have been older children (say, teenagers) who then believed after what their father had told them, and were baptized. I would rather the RCA, CRC and any other church end infant baptism, and instead the ceremony should be a dedication of the infant to the Lord, followed by teaching of the child by church and family; leave out the sprinkling of water (which is not scriptural, by the way). But to be transparent (such an overused word), I am in no way, shape, manner or form a biblical scholar. Just some schmuck who questions "tradition" and other biblical teachings.
Duh! 😢 King Saul was Paul! King Saul got kingdom taken away and given to David …. Paul and Peter are taking people to hell!
Paul through direct revelation from Jesus, Jesus therefore is the creator !! Paul is just the indwelt spokesman.
"Paul is a strange fellow"
Paul is the Man of Lawlessness that Daniel saw standing in the temple preaching an Unknown god.
Paul got arrested in the temple. And Paul says verbatim in Acts 17:23 that he proclaims an unknown god.
The people in Athens knew who YHWH is. James says in Acts 15:21 that every city since Ancient times knew of YHWH.
The man of lawlessness was about the apostasy. The church systems.
Paul foretold it. How does it refer to himself?
(Acts 17:23) For instance, while passing along and carefully observing your objects of veneration, I found even an altar on which had been inscribed ‘To an Unknown God.’ Therefore, what you are unknowingly worshipping, this I am declaring to you.
Paul helped the Athenians to come to know the God of Abraham.
@@tongakhan230 Daniel spoke of a Man that ushered in the Abomination of Desolation.
Paul spoke of it because he was trying to convince people it was someone that would say "I am God" instead of someone that says "you dont have to keep God's law."
Paul was trying to misdirect and lead astray converts of the real apostles who knew of Daniel's prophecy.
Why would the Antichrist be called The Man of Lawlessness if the Law was abolished and Paul was telling the truth about "grace"??
And how can someone in the future stand in a place that was utterly destroyed in 70AD like Jesus foretold?
The Man has already stood in the temple preaching a doctrine of devils and Lawlessness
Hyam Maccoby says in "The Mythmaker" that "Paul's expression 'The Lord's Supper' was so redolent of mystery religion that the early Fathers of the Church became embarrassed by it, and they substituted for it the name 'Eucharist', which had Jewish, rather than pagan, associations."
I believe that mystery religion was a specific one, Mithraism, the Roman center for which was in Paul's birth home, Tarsus. I believe Paul was very much trying to morph Mithraism into the Jewish Jesus community to form Christianity, or more rightely, Paulism.
@@ChristinaFromRUclips : Daniel 9:27 “And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.
“And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the ONE CAUSING DESOLATION; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”
Jesus refers to this.
Matthew 24:15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that CAUSES DESOLATION, as spoken about BY DANIEL THE PROPHET, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.
It was the Roman Army which came and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
This had nothing to do with Paul's prophecy of the man of lawlessness.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless THE APOSTASY COMES FIRST and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.
Who usurped Jesus as head of the Christian Congregation and appointed himself its head?
Who brought in the church systems with its priests of different tiers?
Who started to teach twisted teachings such as the Trinity, Hell-fire torment and such (Acts 20L30)?
These two were non related prophecies.
One about the end of the Jewish system (Daniel's)
The other about Satan taking over the running of the Christian Congregation (Paul's).
The reason for Pauls' confidence is due to him being Baptized with the holy Ghost. The true Church was a group of people indwelt by Gods Spirit. God is holy and He is a Spirit. People who have been indwelt by Gods Spirit are His tabernacle in the Holy of Holies. We're a kingdom of priest and are now His tabernacle. And we are led by the Spirit, not by man. We received a daily anointing, praying down the Power of the Spirit and thereby we are empowered to walk in the Spirit and not obey the lust of the flesh. The Spirit puts to death the flesh nature and gives us the mind of Christ. The law is for people who can't contain the desires of their human nature. But, Dead flesh doesn't manifest if's desires. There is no law for a dead man. But, this is not a creed or words to repeat or remember. This is an actual indwelling of Gods Spirit coming into our bodies and speaking out of our mouths. (1)The words or beliefs without the Spirit, is a formula for a pagan Catholic church. (2)The keeping of the already fulfilled law is to fall back from grace (charis, Spirit) and to remain in the old covenant of sin and sacrifice, for sin, but with no power to overcome the sin. Jesus has always had HIS Church. It is a group of people indwelt (Possessed?) by His Spirit. And we are lead by Jesus through His Spirit, not by man. He puts His anointing on what He approves of.
practicing ritual metaphoric cannibalism as a component of Christianity has deeply disturbed me for years. Still does. That it appears in the gospels as well as Paul's letters makes it something that can never be refuted in debates with other Christians. But it has never set as something actually authentic that Jesus, a Jew, would have inaugurated (a special, spiritually significant supper, yes, but not the metaphoric cannibalism aspects). Guess at the end of the day that leaves becoming a Didache Christian - but that will be a small communion indeed as so few will take what the Didache says about the Eucharist over what the New Testament text say on the matter - even though the Didache is a reflection of what real Christians of the first century were saying and doing - its basically a church manual
Nothing to do with cannibalism, this is your proper fear, you have to examine for yourself. You are disturbed with that. Drink this wine fruit from man's work , this is (as ) my blood, (as saying you are part of my Spirit)... This is like you would say to hour Son ''you are my blood'' nothing linked to any of your fears. This is (like) my body offered to you ( Saying you will act by your body like I acted by my body) You will do it in memory of me (What we represent for the lord and for Humanity).... All that is symbolism, and about Jesus memory we have in Us. Why do you cry about jesus gone?! Jesus is now in you Jesus given his physical body for you to transmit Jesus teachings. I don't understand why you stand on the body level, you seems not having acces like Paul to the spiritual, ou soul, level, or more higher in Jesus christ, gone on the cross for Us to join Our Lord!....Having Wisdom in daylight, God Is.
@@patriciaoudart1508 No, the self-examination aspect is perfectly fine, appropriate, and very spiritual - it's purely the symbolic ritual cannibalism based on metaphoric ingesting human blood and human flesh, that is extremely, extremely disturbing.
I can get that Paul would have thought of it in terms of the Cosmic Christ body per his special revelations - he had pretty well jettisoned his Judaism up-bringing and supplanted it in total with his special mystical revelations as being superior on all matters.
But James and the apostles, don't see them going there whatsoever. Even in metaphor. Because ritual metaphoric cannibalism would have been one of THE most heinous pagan conceptions from a Jewish sensibilities perspective. It would be right there in the same place as burning children in altars as sacrifices to pagan deities.
True..
Clearly a pagan ritual..
Which the greek churches adopt since they were very used with these type of cannibalism practices..
One is a "son of Man" or carnal when born and then one is baptized which then one becomes a "son of God", as all the baptized are children of God. The Spirit(breath) of God descends in the Baptism and one is changed so that then one is reborn, for then all is new. To reflex this change from "son of man" to "son of God" one changes one's name. Sin deprives one of the true experience of life requiring rebirth in God or baptism. It is not a rite but a direct experience of God.
There are truths and non truths in all religious texts even if every religious institution has it wrong GOD is real and there is a spirit realm and you will be there with God 🙏 the devil truly is in the details you are to caught up in the minutiae Paul grace grace grace
Mythicist and nonPh.D Earl Doherty demonstrated this over ten years ago!!!!
In ancient hebrew culture baptism(mikveh) was practice, a groom and a bride were baptized separately before the wedding. Jesus was baptize by John his cousin before he started his ministry. Likewise when a beliver accept Jesus as Redeemer and Savior after repenting of his sins and sinful lifestyle he is cleanse(his conscience no longer condemn him, God's laws are put in his heart and he received the Holy Spirit inside him as a symbol of a wedding ring.He chooses baptism as a sign that he is betrothel to Jesus. The communion ceremony of the bread and wine, Jesus established this remembrance ceremony(gospel of John)on the night of the real passover according to Moses in the old testement not the following night the way the pharisees taught the people. Jesus replace the old covenant animal sacrifices for sins with His Body once and for all mankind even you. This was accomplish the following day to fullfill the old testament prophecy of Abraham about to sacrifice Issac where Father provided a ram caught in the thicket representing the Lamb of God Jesus. Please study the library of the dead sea scrolls, these essenes knew beforehand of His coming to make propitiation for sin and were one of the first to become believers, christianity was a hebrew belief in the beginning and not until 5-10 years later the gentiles came into the faith.
this can in a historical sense be taken further. As some history presumes Yahshua was baptized, as you say as bridegroom, also in preparation for his OWN wedding. And the first miracle he performs right after his baptism is at his own wedding where he turned water into wine. As in Jewish culture the bridegroom is to provide the wine for his own wedding.
I've had demonic experiences after baptism, communion, anointing, and fasting. That's how i began to understand that yhvh is not Jesus's father!
"I have said YE are elohim and SONS of the Most High" psalm 85:6
"To WHOMEVER overcomes (sin) he will inherit ALL THINGS. I will be his Elohim (big E) and he will be MY SON" Revelation 21:7.
There's no such things as demons in Hebrew or the OT. It's Greek mythology or a mistranslation of the Greek to English in the NT. The mind is a powerful thing.
Inspired by Jésus ! 🙏
All the cults and religions of that time ,when jesus suddenly became the in thing.said yea jesus agrees with us ,just as they do today bo one changed their thinking because of jesus teaching they just adapted it to their own ,the teaching of jesus has not yet been taken up by anyone.
I am washed in the living water NOT literal water. The NT gospel of the kingdom is about spiritual purity and has nothing to do with the works of the flesh. That goes for crucifixion, burial, and resurrection, holiness. The allegorical got literalized by Rome because of blind guides.
People are selfish, it’s all about pleasure and entertainment for themselves. How many go straight home from church and turn on their big screen TV to watch unrighteousness?
1. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, that he received it, *like other sayings wrongly attributed to Paul,* from The Lord, Jesus Christ!
2. Therefore, it's us that do not understand what Christ meant by, "take, eat. This is my body...", etc. Matthew 26:26-30.
3. In reference to Jesus Christ, it says in John 1:1-14:
"In the beginning was *The WORD...and The WORD BECAME FLESH (and BLOOD)"* and made His dwelling among us".
4. *The WORD, from Above, became Jesus Christ's FLESH and BLOOD, by which means* He transmitted Light and Truth to us on Earth *through His spoken WORDS!*
5. Therefore, Jesus Christ meant the following: That *The WORD from Above, IS His BODY, i.e., IS HIMSELF,* symbolised by the bread and wine that He offered His Disciples, when he said in Matthew 26:26-30 "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat (DIGEST/ABSORB); this is my body (This is ME, The WORD from Above). And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink (DIGEST/ABSORB) ye all of it; for this is my blood (This is ME, The WORD from Above) of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives".
6. Therefore, *since Jesus Christ was The WORD from Above which WAS HIM in FLESH and BLOOD.* His instruction for us *to consume His FLESH and BLOOD,* symbolised by the bread and wine, was His instruction for us to *consume, digest and assimilate The WORD from Above, Which was Jesus Christ HIMSELF!*
7. And Jesus Christ, *HIMSELF, was The actual WORDS that He spoke to us on Earth!*
8. Christ meant that *The WORD FROM ABOVE is what He is made OUT OF, which He Transformed, on Earth, into His WORD spoken to us.*
9. Therefore, the words of the *Communion rite, instituted* by Jesus Christ, was His instruction for us to *assimilate HIM* by eating, digesting and assimilating all *the WORDS that He SPOKE to us on Earth! As the ONLY means of our salvation!*
10. *Therefore, it was Jesus Christ, Himself, and not Paul, who created and instituted the Eucharist as the instruction for our salvation!*
The other dude is a mocker.
Paul ‘created’ baptism?
John the Baptist may have something to say about that. Lol
You really miss the point on baptism. Not Jesus nor John nor Paul created the rite of baptism.
Bishop Spong has in his marvelous work revealed that baptism in the Gospels is a reverence to the original origin of baptism: the ritual of Jom kippoer explained for gentiles. The synoptic Gospels follow the Jewish liturgical agenda to explain Jewish life and the life of Jesus to the proselytes. The same applies to the ritual of Passover. That ritual and the last supper is never mentioned by Paul. He even doesn't tell when Jesus was killed . No he even in Philippians states that Jesus is the real atonement for the sins of the world as the was in the Temple on Jom Kippoer. Chapter 11 of Corinthians is not Pauline that is very clear.
The Last supper to say the least is a practice of the 70th of the first age.
The vision on James pure speculative and their is no proof he ever had that influence.
Mind all that is told in Acts is from the year 100. Even the story of Pauls- so-called conversion is so different of what Pauls tells himself. No Paul is not the inventor of all these rituals.
Secondly a ritual of baptism in the Mikwah is an old Jewish ritual to adopt Proselytes in order to become Jewish.
No this is not correct.
The one Greater than John the Baptist was the one who is Least in the Kingdom of Heaven , and who is this person called the Least ?..Jesus was referring it to Himself....Jesus became the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven, because he(one of the Godhead) has to come-down from heaven to earth(a lesser/fallen kingdom)..by force?.and why not just send angels, or some human prophets like Daniel ..john the Baptist not good enough?
I think this is the theory Prof Tabor is advancing:
Paul, someone who never met Jesus, claimed to receive visions of Jesus as Lord and if they actually occurred, they were not actually communications from God. James, the brother of Jesus, led a counter movement that simply revered Jesus as the Messiah, even though he'd been crucified. James, who knew Jesus for some 30 years and lived among Jesus's devout Jewish family group in Galilee, was simply an apocalyptic Jew, probably a follower of John the Baptist too. James, therefore, represents the true message of Jesus (and John the Baptist).
From this flows that the New Testament scripture is almost all invalid, as the gospels follow Paul in time and theology. The only writings that may come from the actual belief group of Jesus would be, perhaps: 1 and 2 James, Jude, 1 Peter and Didache. Perhaps he would include citations from the Hebrew Gospel quoted in patristic sources.
This brings to mind the famous retort of Charles V to Luther at Worms:
"You know that my ancestors were the most Christian Emperors of the illustrious German nation, the Catholic kings of Spain, the archdukes of Austria, and the dukes of Burgundy, who all were, until death, faithful sons of the Roman Church. Always they defended the Catholic faith, the sacred ceremonies, decretals, ordinances and holy rites to the honour of God, the propagation of the faith and the salvation of souls. After their deaths they left, by natural law and heritage, these holy Catholic rites, for us to live and to die following their example. I am therefore resolved to maintain everything which these my forebears have established to the present, especially that which my predecessors ordered at the Council of Constance and at other councils. It is certain that a single monk errs in his opinion which is against what all of Christendom has held for over a thousand years to the present. According to his opinion all of Christendom has always been in error."
Here, Tabor is not only denying some practices of the Catholic Church but instead is denying almost all scripture too. Luther also embraced the first councils, the Nicene Creed. Upon what feeble thread does he suggest that all faith preceding him is in error? His own lack of belief that God spoke to Paul.
If Paul is right, the New Testament Scripture is holy. If Paul is right, Jesus is Lord and God. If Paul is right, the Holy Spirit is present at baptism. If Paul is right, Jesus gave his disciples bread as His Body and wine as His Blood. If Paul is right, then the new covenant of the Resurrection means that we are freed from the bondage of the Law and need not follow all the purity rules of Judaism. If Paul is right, Gentiles have been called to worship the God of Israel, but after the Spirit, not the Flesh.
Tall task to hold Christian faith but reject Paul.
It is almost certain that no New Testament author thought that Jesus was God, including Paul. Biblical Unitarians will say this to death until we can provoke a dialogue with our fellow brother and sisters and get to the bottom of this, and not only a dialogue with our fellow Christians but with the entire world.
If the Trinity is false or foreign to the writers of the New Testament, and the idea of Jesus being deity is false, we have antagonized and alienated Jews and Muslims needlessly from hearing the words of Jesus.
@@youngknowledgeseeker I can understand why you would say this. Paul says Jesus is Lord, but does he say specifically that Jesus is God? John is pretty clear that Jesus is God.
But what does Paul and Acts mean when they say that Jesus is Lord?
@@youngknowledgeseeker And I think you are making an interesting point about Islam. The view of Tabor, that Christianity and the Christian scriptures are corrupted, is exactly the Muslim view on Injil (the gospel book).
@charlesiragui2473 Honestly I would say especially John doesn't think Jesus is God in any literal way shape or form. Key word "literal". Especially John. See how John takes the time, meticulously, to have Jesus repeatedly state he doesn't have his own powers, he didn't make up his own words, that he's powerless alone, that he has a God himself that he calls the true God, etc etc. That's just one example. John is waay more than just John 1:1 and John 20:28, which btw have their own internal explanations and 1st century historical explanation (like wisdom literature and christology, and logos literature and christology).
As for Paul and Acts, to be brief, Lord just means "Boss", "Leader", "King", "Master". Jesus wasn't even the ultimate Lord. He himself had a Lord as they all (Paul, The gospel authors, Peter, James, etc) freely and happily admit.
@@youngknowledgeseeker In the beginning was the Word…
What's odd to me is alot of people call themselves Christians,and they are the furthest thing from it,these are just labels people throw around,all these men saying words and don't even have a clue of what they say,and don't even come close to doing anything godly,they all live in the flesh instead of the spirit of the lord amen 🙏! A baptism is the receiving of the creator in the spiritual sense,which again no one has an inkling of conception of it amen 🙏 !
Paul did not create the Eucharist, that is entirely a Roman Catholic Church tradition.
Jesus sharing bread & wine, saying do this in reembrace of me during the last supper He is the source from which of communion is drawn.
Most churches regard Jesus words on this as allegorical (symbolic) speech in that they do not believe in the transubstantiation of the elements into the actual flesh & blood of Jesus. Pretty much only the Roman Catholic church takes that stance which is central to the term "Eucharist.
Some believe in the presence of Christ during communion, but in a way that is just the common belief that all believers are in Christ at all times through the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is distinct from consubstantiation which you can look up if you wish.
The Oriental Orthodox separated 431-451, the Eastern Orthodox 1054 & the Protestant Reformation began in Wittenberg, Germany, 1517
independent
It is my understanding that practically everyone but Rome, use the term "Communion" as Eucharist implies transubstantiation.
I disagree with Tabor, and scripure is against him, but Jesus did not institute communion. Catholic communion is basically witchcraft with a Christian veneer. When Jesus said "this is my body", he obviously is referring to his actual body and not the bread. The loaf of bread was not nailed to the cross, his body was.
The pharisees made the same mistake when, a year earlier, Jesus stood in front of the Temple and said destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days. They thought He was referring to the thing in front of Him when he was talking about His body.
At the last supper he is not referring to the thing in front of Him (the bread), but His body.
@@scottb4579 Luke 22:19
NIV
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
The words "do this in remembrance of me.” indicates that he in not just talking about his body, but is instituting an act of reembrace. I agree that the concept of transubstantiation (turning the elements in the actual physical flesh & blood of Christ) is incorrect. But that is not a concept with communion. It is a concept of the Roman Catholic Eucharist, which only the Roman Catholic church practices. I don't know of any other church that practices the Eucharist. Communion is not Eucharist. Communion is simply an act of remembrance of Christ's sacrifice.
It may superficially look very similar but is does not contain the same concept. It is simply a symbolic act such as might be done in the secular world on reembrace day when we consider the sacrifice of those who fell in war, defending their homes & loved ones. There is no VooDoo involved in either case.
You seem to be missing the point that Transubstantiation is not part of communion. It is only the Roman Catholic church that has that concept & practices Eucharis. While the Ronal Catholic Church claims that the Pope is head of the wider church. None of the other denominations agree to that but maintain strict independence from that church, it's administration, it's practices & it's theologies.
Many regard the the Church of Rome and it's practices to be anti-Christian, including as you call it, their "witchcraft" view. Look at the prophesy of Daniel of Daniel 7 & consider the history of the Roman Empire & it's transformation into the Papal Empire. The fact that the Casers appointed themselves Popes over the church. Constantine was just such a Pope. Do a little internet research, check historical sources. Perhaps, you will see why we are so very concerned & distanced from the Church of Rome.
Again, you are very mistaken if you think that Communion is the same as Eucharist.
@@kenwebster5053 I was raised Catholic and know what transubstantiation means. I reject Catholic doctrines and have for decades now.
Thanks for the correction concerning the word communion. All these years I thought this word originated with the Catholic Church as part of their belief about transubstantiation. I see now that isn't so. And I agree with you concerning the significance and meaning of the communion ritual.
Yeah, the Catholic belief is very akin to witchcraft and you can find Wiccans who will agree with this.
@@scottb4579 Good fellow you are, sound like you did some research of your own! Yes it comes from Greek "Koinonia" & is tied to concepts like Partnership, something shared in common & community. However, word meanings can be fluid over time and culture. People often come to misunderstandings and disagreement over things like this. I am glad that you have found a measure of peace over this now. May The Most High be with you & guide your steps in truth faith & righteousness always Shalom!
If as believers we are in Christ and , as Jesus promised in John; Father Son and Holy Spirit make our home with us what else is there to receive from any transubstantiated bread and wine? Nothing! Communion is important because it is the ongoing expression not just of our faith/belief in the efficacy of Jesus' death but of our ongoing allegiance/faithfulness to Jesus as our Lord and King. In other words our baptism is our initial lifelong commitment, communion is our ongoing reiteration of that commitment - and stance against all powers human and cosmic opposed to Him.
😂😂😁
If Paul's epiphany is our first record, why aren't you a mythicist? Do you think there was a Jesus performing miracles?
I appreciate your work but, i think perhaps you take obvious lies too seriously. Curiously, you date Mark to immediately after Masada yet imply no connection.
No offense, much gratitude and respect for your honest effort!
It’s clear and simple JESÚS was baptized by John’s baptism and the disciples!!! And Jesus continues to preach and uses the baptism of John … after the resurrection then the baptism changes to baptism in the name of Jesus!!! The disciples didn’t need be baptized because He washed their feet as a baptism!! He said you are clean already because they were water baptized and now he was washing them again to take part of Him.. so after the ascension all they needed was the baptism of the Holy Ghost.. because they were chosen to bring in the new baptismal formula.. invoking the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin.. easy you don’t need to be a dr or a scholar… you just need the Holy Ghost and he will lead you and teach you all things.. the Passover sader was practiced the Torah sader and still should be taught and practiced
Dr. Talbot, even Paul acknowledged that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Perhaps Paul was used by Satan himself to testify for Mashiach with conflicting information so as to create a world wide religion that is worshipping Satan by means of the false information given to worship our Mashiach???
I personally believe Paul truly believed he was worshipping Yehowshowa correctly, but what if the angel that spoke to him was Satan? I've prayed about this and I see many discrepancies in Paul's teachings when compared to the 12 Apostles teachings that remained after the ascension of our Mashiach. So I pray for guidance and I look for witness testimonies within the Bible to support what Paul has written. If there is none, I will always follow the Torah and our Mashiach!!!
All Praise and Glory to Yehowa in the name of His Glorious Son,Yehowshowa HaMashiach!!!
Pichii Keen I think its you that are being deceived by the devil . Paul wrote most of the new testament . Why would God allow him to write most of the new testament if Paul was wrong ?
💚🧡🙏 Why do you cry?....Jesus is in You Now! As I am not fan on how the church taken power in Rome, I can recognize that all in these words is said, I love this sentence. You have inside why you are baptized, and why you share the bread and the wine, this is symbolic that we are the Jesus community having a mission like Jesus had. Saying that, I was twelve years old, i decided to let my body dying and join God, because I was born with a sad condition. From the age of Four, I was praying Jesus to send me my true body, but you imagine that Jesus don't access to that sort of demand. I died, '' this have a name when you experiment that sort of thing ''', it was answered to me in Paradise, how do you accomplish your mission in Jesus Christ if you have no body!... This is a tool, whatever this body is not adapted. Be confident, have faith, return and accomplish your mission. So my heart returnet to beat, I returned here to life fifty years ago, I'm still learning everyday what is my mission, and I had chance my body being helped to be repaired by doctors. So, I know that thing, that Jesus experienced, we are at ten minutes from God, our body is only a tool, to do what we have to do on this Earth. And being baptized makes Us God's soldiers. Paul was also that soldier. Ask why he went fifteen years to study in Mesopotamia after meeting James and the community... I think I know Why, this is also, after listening your Channel James Tabor, that Paul became more and more friendly to me. We are on their way because we received Baptism bread and wine, and the teachings from Jesus. We could say, '' would Jesus being in Us if he had not been crucified? '' This is how he given His body
taken off for Us to be Jesus Body. That given Us the mission we have All. Searching the real facts will change anything to our faith and our mission. In my mind, I think Paul was one of Us, he continued the Jesus's mission. And that was an apocalyptic group, with a very ancient knowledge giving them a very hard mission on humanity, as is common humanity. How do you do when you have a so heavy mission?.... That's the question Paul tried cleverly to solve. But, the fact is that he continued Jesus teaching as it was possible for him. James did not had time for that, lot have been persecuted by pervert people, wich is why we don't know if we can save Humanity. We have Noah's fear, as they had at this time also. So what is the mission?... John had one, Jesus had another , Paul another one, everyone have a part of different missions, but All in One, Saving What is Good on Earth.
The Xtianity of Today
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Flavian Paulianity
This is yet some more RUclips religious bullshit (as if there isn't enough of it already). The truth about the origin of Christian baptism is that it was first instituted by John the Baptist, then by Jesus himself, then by his disciples. Paul came on the scene some while later.
Your deceit is not as subtle as you hoped.