We have a regional chain that is notorious for upselling without a good reason. My wife called from their shop while getting tires mounted and said, "The mechanic says that the car needs new drums on the rear brakes. What do you want me to tell him?" I said, "Tell him he's either a thief or an idiot. The car has disc brakes on the rear." She relayed the message in a more polite form. The "mechanic" went out to the shop, came back, and said, "Huh, it does have discs."
Meg said that most likely happened because your wife took the car in. It wouldn't have happened to you. Thanks for sharing your story. Keep wrenching 🔧
Unfortunately, I'm sure that was the reason. It's amazing the change of attitude they have when it's a retired motor sergeant instead of his wife. @@WrenchingWithKenny
I retired in 2018 as a professional handyman. I never wanted for work because I never cheated a single customer, which got me countless referrals. I was always able to sleep with a clear conscience because I always did the right thing" every time. The stories I used to hear from my customers about unscrupulous contractors made my blood boil. Like auto mechanics, honest contractors are always busy, because their customers know they’re dealing with honest people.
25yrs family business from 16yrs old. Only yellow pages phone ad in those days. We ended up doing custom work for all over the world, (under priced because we didn't know then) Built stunt equipment for SeaWorld, Movie World, rally reams, even F1. But our basic customers always came back with their own family etc. No advertising needed for top work
And now you know the reason I do all of my own mechanical and home improvement work. Has it cost me some money in bad diagnosis and mistakes over the years? Yes, but I can almost guarantee you that I I've saved money in the long term by doing the work myself. It's a pity how some folks work, or I guess more correctly don't work. Keep the good stuff coming.
The few times I've taken my vehicles to "pros" have been disappointing at best. I'm getting old, dont have the time, and don't mind spending the money for quality work but here I am doing a full brake job on my vehicle. I paid for the last one and had nothing but problems with the brakes since. I've always said, a good honest mechanic is worth their weight in gold.
I've re installed retainer clips for many years. That clip does NOT mean that drum was never removed. Good vid overall. I always do springs and Adjuster kits! New drums are cheap these days, so unless the customer is dirt poor, I do them also. Fun fact, I paint all bare metal surfaces with a coat of high temp black. Dries to the touch in 5 minutes and keeps rust at bay for a few more years.
finding an HONEST shop these days is getting harder and harder to do. and as easy as it is nowdays to get word out about a bad job, it really doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
My credo, which I used to guide all my activities in business is, "Do the right thing for the right reason." A good check on activities has always been, "If you have to ask if something is right or wrong, it is probably wrong." Finally, another good guideline is, "There is no way do the wrong thing the right way." Being in business for one's self is difficult enough. But, by adhering to those guidelines, and some others, it makes a challenging situation less difficult. Some other principles I found helpful included, "Always do a job the best of one's ability, do it right the first time," and "never be afraid to charge a premium price for premium work. A customer prefers a good value over a cheap price."
Not having the retainer on does not mean it has never been off. All my customers cars that had then I would remove, then hit them flat with a hammer and put them back after the brake job.
I have used a 90 degree pick and removed those drum/rotor retainers and reused them when I was a 20 year old kid working on cars for a living. Figured if they were there originally they should go back. Now I cut them 12 years later. Just a heads up if I reused them then I'm sure other mechanics have.... in this case though they look untouched on that right rear IMO
I was trained in the sixties to replace the clips when we took the drums off. I even had a bag of those clips in my toolbox. They sell or sold them in bags of 20 at Autoparts stores for a dollar or two.
I always removed and replaced those drum securing clips by unscrewing them off and on the wheel studs, stops the drum dislodging when wheels are removed.
To be absolutely honest with you I have taken these speed clips off, it's simple you just tap them anticlockwise and they unscrew, no need to break them! I have also replaced them after doing a brake inspection! Why? I don't know ! It was fitted so I refit it! Now going to the problem where mechanics take off one front and one rear wheel to check the brakes and also examining back plates for signs of leakage! Ask yourself why they do this! It all boils down to the mechanics being on a bonus system, where the more work they can carry out, the more money they get in wages! Now there is another scenario! The manufacturer of the cars give the dealership a book of times to complete a specific task, in these times include bringing into the workshop and setting the vehicle on a ramp or stands, it includes a pee break for the technician! It includes the diagnostic time for said operation! It includes the dismantling of said part! It includes the walk to the parts department and wait at the parts department not including the six men before you! It includes you walking back, fitting this part and taking it for a couple of minutes test drive! It's not necessarily the mechanics fault for taking short cuts, it's the dealership that accepts the impossible tasks from the manufacturer and it the greedy manufacturer that imposes these strict rules so they can sell their cars! Bonus systems should be banned! I have always hated them!
There are guys that spin the retaining clips off and put back in place upon finishing the job. I do not believe that that drum was never off in 20 years.
You're 100% on that !! I've seen people place them back on as well . But they are usually distorted in some manner . These were actually in mint shape leading me to believe they've never been off . Not to say there isn't some weirdo out there who takes extreme care in removing them .. Because I've certainly seen some weirdos in my day lol 😆
I remember as a kid, a local garage got caught telling customers that their alternators and power steering pumps were shot, and sold them a new one. Problem is, the Scumbag would spray paint the OLD parts with gloss black paint!
Good and honest mechanics are overloaded with work (sometimes they can be honest but not good). Lazy, shortcutting, inability to diagnose mechanics are the norm. But they still get enough business to shuffle through a whole career well paid
What ticks me off is when you're fixing a vehicle, straighting out someone's crap repairs and the owners refuse to replace needed parts, basically wanting it rigged, then blame you for not fixing it right which you knew will cause other problems if not replaced. I rarely work on other people's stuff because of how people are, they want cheap fixes but yet expect high end results. They get what they pay for and if parts aren't replaced when needed then it's on them... they were warned.
The local big o tire here in Arizona routinely removes or damages parts in order to sell jobs. The service manager will tell the customer, "Sir/Madam, look what we found during your tire installation".....
That's horrible! I'm surprised a disgruntled employee hasn't secretly taken video of their unethical practice to the media. Sooner or later they will get caught. Thanks for watching 🔧
I tried telling my old boss that one time. I said "this drum's never been off". Judging by the untouched retaining clip with not even a scratch on it. My old boss (who always had to be right) says, " Nah some people put them back on". That may be true in some cases maybe but it looked exactly like the one you showed. Drove me friggen nuts.
I had put new shoes and pads on a work van I was driving and a couple of weeks later it needed tires so the boss met me at the tire shop. Well they put new tires on it and then told the boss that the brakes were shot. I didn’t call them liars at that time but I knew better. They were just up selling. 🤬. I no longer work for the company but I do all of my own maintenance. I’ve got the tools and the knowledge to do what needs done.
Kenny I usually put those clips back on if I get them off without tearing them up. Don’t have to put them back on but I put everything back on if I can. Spring tool is a standard flathead screwdriver, preferably one with smooth texture along the sides. Sometimes needle nose vice grips.
I recently found your channel and if you were near me I definitely would use u as my mechanic it's hard to find a decent one in my area. And as a hvac tech and new business owner the amount of unscrupulous things I've heard and see other techs do makes my blood boil. I will always do the right thing even if I have to take a hit on pay. Because I know it will bring more business being honest and fair
Always appreciate your honest candid ideology Kenny. I do have a question tho. Why does it look like you're sitting in the passenger side seat at the end of this video? Is it a nuance of filming, like a mirror effect, or what? I've noticed this on many videos I've seen, what gives?
Word of mouth can make or break a shop. My Dad taught me 50 years ago when I got my first job, do it right. If boss gives you crap about it, find another job. Oh and always cover your six.
I put those back on my dad's 1978 Chevy Impala wagon, he drove it for thirty years and I did the rear brakes twice. Also knew enough not use compression fittings when I replaced the rear brake lines.
First time I saw those clips was back in 1969 when I first started wrenching on the neighborhood gas station and the mechanic that was there who had to be at least 50 years old at the time told me the same thing that you commented in your video. They are put on the studs during the assembly process and then you get rid of them when you inspect the brakes and they are a indication if somebody checked the brakes for something like a leak or inspected or noise
Some people save the clips the and put them back on because they think they serve a purpose even though they don't. I've seen it many times. Just because they are there doesn't mean the drum has never been off. Any who love the channel, keep wrenching
Respect for Kenny, many US youtuber screemning when talking but not Kenny well done, and as an old mecanic it is easy to see that he know his business.
I’ve worked on my own vehicles for 58 yrs, (takes longer like everything else) but with all the “cheat stories” I hear from other folks; I’ll keep it up till I can’t do it anymore.
Also no mention of mileage on the truck. I do believe it could have been on there since new depending on the driver. Yes it should have been checked but I think they are original on both sides. And you can still get those retainers brand new today. Does it make sense? No. But they are readily available
Drum brakes always replace the wheel cylinders along with the shoes ! The drum you showed looks fine to put new shoes in like you said. Normally machining is the procedure as you stated. Brakes !!!! Do the right thing !!! Inspect the steel brake lines for rot as well. I did drum brakes on my old 76 one ton ford. Rusty brake lines. I did all the rest , drums turned to hubs for trueing. New shoes and springs , wheel cylinders. Master cylinder too. Sure enough after several uses the lines started to leak dammit , couldn’t handle the pressure with all new parts . Made new lines snd bled the system again ok off we go It was my own truck but still I shoulda done it all not taken the chance Do it right or don’t bother 😂
I agree with you on the driver's rear brakes setup and then I noticed the passenger rear set up at the same way far as a bonded pad on one side and a riveted pad on the other side that's strange?🤔
It does bother me when someone (maybe mechanic,maybe diy) doesnt do the right thing,however it also bothers me when people rant on others without knowing the facts.
Yeah I agree it was probably not removed. However when I was a neophyte. I too use to reinstall them. Snap on socket number probably discontinued is s8701. Made to remove those press on droid retainer.
My 2013 Ford Ranger PX went to the dealer for it's 60,000 km service. I was informed that my front brakes were 60% worn. I now have 165000 km and still have a lot of pad left on the brakes. I doubt they even looked at them .
It's true, you inspect every part. The lines, the hoses the pedal the cables. The fluid, The backing plate wear, everything, because you have to provide a guarantee, and every needed thing needs to be in the estimate. But if the guy doesn't get paid an inspection time, and that happens often enough, you start receiving his experienced guesstimate. He can't turn in a card at the end of a day where he did everything possible to verify, but nothing sold, and they all went home to do it with screwdrivers and wire cutters and needle nose. He needs his time covered. Then it helps to have a sheet that prompts him with a place to write condition, verification of operation, and measurements taken. There's communication that may need to take place. If you write it up, go out to it while the wheels are off and get those answers along with seeing it along with him. Settle on forms of measure you both understand, and try to get him an answer before he has to reassemble and get another car checked. Work together. Help the customer get what he wants, a complete answer and estimate from both of you. Have the customer expecting to authorize what you find and available to call if he leaves. Do also, a safety inspection and cover his needs by noting what they are. I've seen customers who didn't know their tags expired, didn't know they had light bulbs inop, and people complaining about the front, when the rears were rusted from launching the boat in the salt water. Some parts are hard to get when corrosion is what is behind their complaint. It's better to know the condition of every part in the brake system and being afforded the time to really look at them all. The advisor saying "really quick, check the fronts" Means. Estimate brake system. Not price rotors, calipers, and pads in case we need them. But it happens. The mechanic might think the customers file is providing numerous inspections. That's not a smart assumption for safety related systems.
You talk about doing the right thing. My aunt took her car into a shop because it was making some type of noise. They did a brake inspection found rust on the rotors and they just told her just drive it the rust eventually break off, but yet it’s going to make all kinds of noise. How hard would it been to take the tire off and take a little bit of sandpaper to clean the rust off.
Chances are the labour would have been half the cost of a new set of brakes rotors. Not all rotors are the same. My van needs to have the hub removed and the rotors are bolted to the hub. Sounds like he might he been trying to save her money, but often that is a trap too from a customer service perspective, and it's just best to do a repair the problem and charge accordingly.
Because you have more of a chance of doing damage than good. Just drive it a bit, and everything will shine up. I wouldn't go after it, but I might take the car for a long test drive and run the brakes a little hard. So they can wait, or just go take a cruise themselves.
I started off in the trade. After working at a dealer. I decided not to continue, because of all the unethical things I saw. It just bothered my conscience!
It is still unfortunate that we in the industry have to defend our trade. I have always maintained that there is enough business to go around. We need not over sell, or do questionable work to make a decent living. Work ethically, the profits will take care of themselves. What the public fails to realize is the cost to operate a shop. Too many to mention, but just subscriptions alone will blow your mind. Thanks, the old school guy.
Of course! Your shop should be charging for a brake inspection and it is explicitly expected that the brakes would be checked. Word to the wise: If you own or run a shop of any kind and your employees don't do things as they should - shame on you for not being the leader you should be. If you are the leader you should be and the employee doesn't do the "right thing" - then, shame on them.
i dunno man, when i first started out and saw those clips i always put them back on, if that was a newbie doing the brakes, did one side, then when he was putting the clips back on, the mechanic in charge was probably like " oh you know you dont have to put those back on, right?" i can definitely see something like that happen
It's like being a detective sometimes, you have to consider all of the possibilities. novices especially do some really weird things with cars. I've pretty much seen it all. wait til they start playing with their A/C.. 🙄 now that's entertainment!
Thank you very very much I always appreciate all your videos and I learned so much from you too bad you weren't in Nassau County New York Long Island I have a 1997 Ford F-150 XL with over 300,000 miles on it I keep it running but sometimes when you bring it to a shop you got to know who the trust I have an old timer that I bring it to but he's getting up there in age and it's not the find somebody who you really can trust that's why I find your videos very very interesting keep up the awesome work it's greatly appreciated
Bonded lining on the rear and riveted lining on the front... on BOTH sides. I don't think it came from the factory like that. You CAN get those clips off without breaking them... and there are a lot of mechanics put them back on.
I had my own truck recently inspected by a local inspection station and they never pulled a wheel or check the rear backing plates for any brake fluid seeping out put it on the computer for the emissions and then scraped off the old sticker and replaced it with a new one and charged me 35 dollars for the new inspection and I was done in 15 minutes. The shop owner knows me for the past 30 years and he knows that my vehicles are always in good shape but if they don’t do the right thing and at least pull a wheel on my stuff what is he letting get by with some of these rolling wrecks ??
Sir thank you for being a good honest mechanic. Would it have been prudent b/c of the age of the truck I had a 2001 Ford Ranger I loved it. TO put new drums on it also? I'm just asking if your doing all of the other stuff I would've paid for new drums as the customer. but that's just me. great video.
Great question !! I will always inspect a drum and make a decision about replacing. I should have covered that in the video , but didn't. If I see any scoring , heat check marks , or excessive wear , I will replace them . I'll have to do a follow-up and explain myself better . Thank you for the question ! And thanks for watching !
Always look with your own eyes. I've seen mechanics reinstall the assembly clips. 20 years old, but how many miles and in what area? A daily driver in the Rust Belt is going to wear differently than a yard truck in SC.
The hardware kit is a no-brainer, rusty springs lack tension and usually the adjuster cables are broken by then. I don't remember ever seeing a mix of bonded & riveted in a stock configuration, so that's odd to me. new shoes don't come that way, it's one or the other. I don't know the mileage, but I've never seen 20 yr old shoes with that much meat still on them. it's possible to replace those clips, but I can't imagine a pro making the effort when they are not needed. a home mechanic might think they have to replace those. but a shop could have made an honest job of this and made the truck safer for the customer. and so now you have. 🏁
Heh, it's probably from the preservative effects of the brake fluid. Last Ford I did drums on I had to break the driver side off by beating the drum with a four pounder until I shattered it. Someone hadn't locked in one of the nails for the retaining springs so the shoes wore themselves conical. And the adjuster was seized so there wasn't a way to back it off enough to sneak it off the taper.
Looks like the factory installed bonded secondary shoe and riveted primary shoe ,weird , I never saw this ,all the years I worked on cars ,maybe because I worked mostly for on brand .
Thank you Kenny for your content. As a woman I have had to learn some car maintenance and your videos help. I always feel I’m getting ripped off when I go to mechanics.
@@petesmitt Ouch did I hit a nerve. I'm not saying all mechanics are the same. Clearly Kenny is a man and is a good mechanic or else I wouldn't be learning from him. I do know how you feel though I have felt like that about many male mechanics.
@@vir9iniaa I hired her because I thought a female tradie wouldn't rip me off like men often do; turns out gender has nothing to do with it.. it's just human nature at work; you need to find people with good character, but that can only be determined from experience.
Installing a half shoe set is possible as one side fails long before the other, and /or a diy'er did the job one day and the other side another day or better yet, two guys at once each on his side. Reminds me of a joke : Wages 25 $ /hour 50 $ ". to follow thé job & ask stupid questions all thé time. 100 $ / hour if you want to help 😝
I do all my own maintenance, I actually put the assembly clips back on. Why does it always look like you are on the right hand side of the vehicle when you road test?
Camera is flipped left/right. Might be shooting with the front camera on a cell phone, you'll notice sometimes he shows the road or dash, but rather than turning the (I assume it's a phone) camera around, he probably toggles front/rear camera. There is a setting to change it, but watch the patch on his shirt. If the text is backward, the camera is flipping the video.
Everybody's talking about brakes in these comments --- but why are you sitting on the right hand side at the end? Image flip, or right hand drive rural mail carrier truck?
@@Cheepchipsable That's true, but there are enough cars you don't have to steal. There are line ups for service and if you're reputable you're booked out 6 months. In Summit county Colorado the only shop that doesn't have a wait is Big-O, because they have a bad reputation. Everyone else is booked.
@@craigjorgensen4637 I literally have never met anyone who leases that when queried as to why they do so have responded other it being an attempt to steer clear of repair shops. But that's just me.
Craig....had the most remarkable string of 3 mechanics over last 30 years. Moved to new state. Have sampled the talents and expenses of 5 repair shops. I'm thinking of leasing to avoid being exposed to these individuals. It's sad.
I love the way you want it done right. But make excuses NOT to turn the drums. The drums should always be turned with new shoes to match the breaking area. I have enjoyed your videos up until I saw this one. You failed at what you stood for. Just because you made a excuse to make you right. That is a fail. Next time do the right thing turn the drums if you replace the shoes. Sorry if this hurts your feelings but you are the one that says do it right.
You should resurface brake drums and rotors for more than imperfect run out ! Brake shoe manufacturers state that to properly brake in the parts you should machine the surface
My '72 Chevy C20 needed rear drums because they were deeply score. My local auto parts store wanted $102 per drum plus 3 days. Another wanted $122 per drum plus 3 days. Winston Tires wanted $200 per drum. I found a local brake supplier and asked if they had drums for my truck and if the sold to the public. They said yes at $75 per drum. I picked the drums up and mentioned Winston Tire wanted $200 per drum. They said, "Really? They het their drums from us!".
But it could pulsate down the road so what does it hurt nothing the objective is limiting returns that is what everyone wants the owner of the vehicle and the shop owner
@@waynerichards8606 In the future it may pulsate. That goes for any vehicle. You can't fix a dent before an accident. Also, there is a useable thickness on rotors and drums. If you cut them when its not necessary, they need to be replaced sooner.
People say I am wasting time and money but if he’s putting wheel cylinders and brake shoes and a spring kit in what is another $25.00 or $30.00 dollars on a job
@@waynerichards8606 Its not that big of a deal. Personally, I don't like to cut rotors or drums unless they really need it. Every time you cut, they get thinner, but its still a judgement call. Some people disagree with me, and that's OK. As long as whoever does the work knows what they're doing you'll be fine.
Call me nuts, but when I started doing brakes and came across those clips, I'd carefully pry them off, and put them back on... I've also been known to obnoxiously cover the adjuster hole with a piece of electrical tape, in the absence of the rubber plug. I now have kits of plugs...
We have a regional chain that is notorious for upselling without a good reason. My wife called from their shop while getting tires mounted and said, "The mechanic says that the car needs new drums on the rear brakes. What do you want me to tell him?"
I said, "Tell him he's either a thief or an idiot. The car has disc brakes on the rear." She relayed the message in a more polite form.
The "mechanic" went out to the shop, came back, and said, "Huh, it does have discs."
Meg said that most likely happened because your wife took the car in. It wouldn't have happened to you. Thanks for sharing your story. Keep wrenching 🔧
Unfortunately, I'm sure that was the reason. It's amazing the change of attitude they have when it's a retired motor sergeant instead of his wife. @@WrenchingWithKenny
I retired in 2018 as a professional handyman. I never wanted for work because I never cheated a single customer, which got me countless referrals. I was always able to sleep with a clear conscience because I always did the right thing" every time. The stories I used to hear from my customers about unscrupulous contractors made my blood boil. Like auto mechanics, honest contractors are always busy, because their customers know they’re dealing with honest people.
25yrs family business from 16yrs old. Only yellow pages phone ad in those days. We ended up doing custom work for all over the world, (under priced because we didn't know then) Built stunt equipment for SeaWorld, Movie World, rally reams, even F1. But our basic customers always came back with their own family etc.
No advertising needed for top work
They go to the cheapest person possible and want every thing fixed but don't want to pay .
Some people just want a cheap job😮
I recommend the spring kit
You might be surprised as to how much better everything works
And now you know the reason I do all of my own mechanical and home improvement work. Has it cost me some money in bad diagnosis and mistakes over the years? Yes, but I can almost guarantee you that I I've saved money in the long term by doing the work myself. It's a pity how some folks work, or I guess more correctly don't work. Keep the good stuff coming.
The few times I've taken my vehicles to "pros" have been disappointing at best. I'm getting old, dont have the time, and don't mind spending the money for quality work but here I am doing a full brake job on my vehicle. I paid for the last one and had nothing but problems with the brakes since. I've always said, a good honest mechanic is worth their weight in gold.
I've re installed retainer clips for many years. That clip does NOT mean that drum was never removed. Good vid overall. I always do springs and Adjuster kits! New drums are cheap these days, so unless the customer is dirt poor, I do them also. Fun fact, I paint all bare metal surfaces with a coat of high temp black. Dries to the touch in 5 minutes and keeps rust at bay for a few more years.
I usually put them back on as well
I thought I was the only one that painted the drums, but I was doing it for my daughters vehicles.
@@kellismith4329 sure you do....
I usually for many years put the clip back on too.
Me too
finding an HONEST shop these days is getting harder and harder to do. and as easy as it is nowdays to get word out about a bad job, it really doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
You ain't kidding !! Word of mouth is the best advertisement !
Honest, skilled mechanics are precious and rare. If you find one - sing their praises to everyone you can.
Nice job, as a fellow mechanic I feel your pain. I’m always seeing half assed work. Some guys just don’t take any pride in their work.
My credo, which I used to guide all my activities in business is, "Do the right thing for the right reason." A good check on activities has always been, "If you have to ask if something is right or wrong, it is probably wrong." Finally, another good guideline is, "There is no way do the wrong thing the right way." Being in business for one's self is difficult enough. But, by adhering to those guidelines, and some others, it makes a challenging situation less difficult. Some other principles I found helpful included, "Always do a job the best of one's ability, do it right the first time," and "never be afraid to charge a premium price for premium work. A customer prefers a good value over a cheap price."
Not having the retainer on does not mean it has never been off. All my customers cars that had then I would remove, then hit them flat with a hammer and put them back after the brake job.
Honesty and integrity are characteristics of a real man. Good video Kenny.
I have used a 90 degree pick and removed those drum/rotor retainers and reused them when I was a 20 year old kid working on cars for a living. Figured if they were there originally they should go back. Now I cut them 12 years later. Just a heads up if I reused them then I'm sure other mechanics have.... in this case though they look untouched on that right rear IMO
Thank you Kenny for doing and stressing the right thing.
Thanks for watching 🔧
I’ve pulled drums and put the clip back on before, just for a reaction like this. Also because I got it off without breaking it.
I was trained in the sixties to replace the clips when we took the drums off. I even had a bag of those clips in my toolbox. They sell or sold them in bags of 20 at Autoparts stores for a dollar or two.
I always removed and replaced those drum securing clips by unscrewing them off and on the wheel studs, stops the drum dislodging when wheels are removed.
Yes; I'm retired mechanic 45 years in the diesel
I really enjoy your videos you are common sense mechanic.
🙌🙌🙌🙌
I completely agree with replacing both wheel cylinders. If one is dead the other one is terminally ill.
To be absolutely honest with you I have taken these speed clips off, it's simple you just tap them anticlockwise and they unscrew, no need to break them!
I have also replaced them after doing a brake inspection! Why? I don't know !
It was fitted so I refit it!
Now going to the problem where mechanics take off one front and one rear wheel to check the brakes and also examining back plates for signs of leakage!
Ask yourself why they do this!
It all boils down to the mechanics being on a bonus system, where the more work they can carry out, the more money they get in wages!
Now there is another scenario!
The manufacturer of the cars give the dealership a book of times to complete a specific task, in these times include bringing into the workshop and setting the vehicle on a ramp or stands, it includes a pee break for the technician!
It includes the diagnostic time for said operation!
It includes the dismantling of said part!
It includes the walk to the parts department and wait at the parts department not including the six men before you!
It includes you walking back, fitting this part and taking it for a couple of minutes test drive!
It's not necessarily the mechanics fault for taking short cuts, it's the dealership that accepts the impossible tasks from the manufacturer and it the greedy manufacturer that imposes these strict rules so they can sell their cars!
Bonus systems should be banned!
I have always hated them!
I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don't see the system changing anytime soon. Thanks for watching!
There are guys that spin the retaining clips off and put back in place upon finishing the job. I do not believe that that drum was never off in 20 years.
You're 100% on that !!
I've seen people place them back on as well . But they are usually distorted in some manner . These were actually in mint shape leading me to believe they've never been off . Not to say there isn't some weirdo out there who takes extreme care in removing them .. Because I've certainly seen some weirdos in my day lol 😆
I remember as a kid, a local garage got caught telling customers that their alternators and power steering pumps were shot, and sold them a new one. Problem is, the Scumbag would spray paint the OLD parts with gloss black paint!
Good and honest mechanics are overloaded with work (sometimes they can be honest but not good). Lazy, shortcutting, inability to diagnose mechanics are the norm. But they still get enough business to shuffle through a whole career well paid
What ticks me off is when you're fixing a vehicle, straighting out someone's crap repairs and the owners refuse to replace needed parts, basically wanting it rigged, then blame you for not fixing it right which you knew will cause other problems if not replaced. I rarely work on other people's stuff because of how people are, they want cheap fixes but yet expect high end results. They get what they pay for and if parts aren't replaced when needed then it's on them... they were warned.
The local big o tire here in Arizona routinely removes or damages parts in order to sell jobs. The service manager will tell the customer, "Sir/Madam, look what we found during your tire installation".....
That's horrible! I'm surprised a disgruntled employee hasn't secretly taken video of their unethical practice to the media. Sooner or later they will get caught. Thanks for watching 🔧
I tried telling my old boss that one time. I said "this drum's never been off". Judging by the untouched retaining clip with not even a scratch on it. My old boss (who always had to be right) says, " Nah some people put them back on". That may be true in some cases maybe but it looked exactly like the one you showed. Drove me friggen nuts.
I'm not a mechanic but it's nice to get a visual from your videos when I hear my mechanic friend talking to customers about other work he has done
I had put new shoes and pads on a work van I was driving and a couple of weeks later it needed tires so the boss met me at the tire shop. Well they put new tires on it and then told the boss that the brakes were shot. I didn’t call them liars at that time but I knew better. They were just up selling. 🤬. I no longer work for the company but I do all of my own maintenance. I’ve got the tools and the knowledge to do what needs done.
Kenny I usually put those clips back on if I get them off without tearing them up. Don’t have to put them back on but I put everything back on if I can.
Spring tool is a standard flathead screwdriver, preferably one with smooth texture along the sides. Sometimes needle nose vice grips.
I recently found your channel and if you were near me I definitely would use u as my mechanic it's hard to find a decent one in my area. And as a hvac tech and new business owner the amount of unscrupulous things I've heard and see other techs do makes my blood boil. I will always do the right thing even if I have to take a hit on pay. Because I know it will bring more business being honest and fair
I know this may sound weird, but I used to put those retainer clips back on when I did the brakes .........
Thank you for the many interesting videos so interesting to watch. By the way this is from the Scottish Highlands. Take care,Dennis.
Always appreciate your honest candid ideology Kenny. I do have a question tho. Why does it look like you're sitting in the passenger side seat at the end of this video? Is it a nuance of filming, like a mirror effect, or what? I've noticed this on many videos I've seen, what gives?
My thoughts exactly, if it ain't broke don't fix it!
Word of mouth can make or break a shop. My Dad taught me 50 years ago when I got my first job, do it right. If boss gives you crap about it, find another job. Oh and always cover your six.
I put those back on my dad's 1978 Chevy Impala wagon, he drove it for thirty years and I did the rear brakes twice. Also knew enough not use compression fittings when I replaced the rear brake lines.
I'm very fortunate to have a good shop in union n j called A&J tire and auto that does great work and is very reliable and honest.
First time I saw those clips was back in 1969 when I first started wrenching on the neighborhood gas station and the mechanic that was there who had to be at least 50 years old at the time told me the same thing that you commented in your video. They are put on the studs during the assembly process and then you get rid of them when you inspect the brakes and they are a indication if somebody checked the brakes for something like a leak or inspected or noise
Some people save the clips the and put them back on because they think they serve a purpose even though they don't. I've seen it many times. Just because they are there doesn't mean the drum has never been off. Any who love the channel, keep wrenching
Respect for Kenny, many US youtuber screemning when talking but not Kenny well done, and as an old mecanic it is easy to see that he know his business.
just a sad state of mechincs today,,4000 for a wiring harness plus labor---took me about 10 minutes and no parts---real sad
I’ve worked on my own vehicles for 58 yrs, (takes longer like everything else) but with all the “cheat stories” I hear from other folks; I’ll keep it up till I can’t do it anymore.
And all of your work has a lifetime warranty!
Also no mention of mileage on the truck. I do believe it could have been on there since new depending on the driver. Yes it should have been checked but I think they are original on both sides. And you can still get those retainers brand new today. Does it make sense? No. But they are readily available
Drum brakes always replace the wheel cylinders along with the shoes !
The drum you showed looks fine to put new shoes in like you said.
Normally machining is the procedure as you stated.
Brakes !!!! Do the right thing !!!
Inspect the steel brake lines for rot as well.
I did drum brakes on my old 76 one ton ford.
Rusty brake lines. I did all the rest , drums turned to hubs for trueing. New shoes and springs , wheel cylinders. Master cylinder too.
Sure enough after several uses the lines started to leak dammit , couldn’t handle the pressure with all new parts . Made new lines snd bled the system again ok off we go
It was my own truck but still I shoulda done it all not taken the chance
Do it right or don’t bother 😂
I agree with you on the driver's rear brakes setup and then I noticed the passenger rear set up at the same way far as a bonded pad on one side and a riveted pad on the other side that's strange?🤔
It does bother me when someone (maybe mechanic,maybe diy) doesnt do the right thing,however it also bothers me when people rant on others without knowing the facts.
Yeah I agree it was probably not removed. However when I was a neophyte. I too use to reinstall them. Snap on socket number probably discontinued is s8701. Made to remove those press on droid retainer.
Car dealer Garage is are notorious for upselling brakes
I say do the right thing don’t expect auto tech to perform free brake inspections. Especially when you have drum brakes
My 2013 Ford Ranger PX went to the dealer for it's 60,000 km service. I was informed that my front brakes were 60% worn. I now have 165000 km and still have a lot of pad left on the brakes. I doubt they even looked at them .
It's true, you inspect every part.
The lines, the hoses the pedal the cables. The fluid,
The backing plate wear, everything, because you have to provide a guarantee, and every needed thing needs to be in the estimate.
But if the guy doesn't get paid an inspection time, and that happens often enough, you start receiving his experienced guesstimate. He can't turn in a card at the end of a day where he did everything possible to verify, but nothing sold, and they all went home to do it with screwdrivers and wire cutters and needle nose.
He needs his time covered.
Then it helps to have a sheet that prompts him with a place to write condition, verification of operation, and measurements taken.
There's communication that may need to take place. If you write it up, go out to it while the wheels are off and get those answers along with seeing it along with him.
Settle on forms of measure you both understand, and try to get him an answer before he has to reassemble and get another car checked.
Work together.
Help the customer get what he wants, a complete answer and estimate from both of you. Have the customer expecting to authorize what you find and available to call if he leaves.
Do also, a safety inspection and cover his needs by noting what they are.
I've seen customers who didn't know their tags expired, didn't know they had light bulbs inop, and people complaining about the front, when the rears were rusted from launching the boat in the salt water.
Some parts are hard to get when corrosion is what is behind their complaint. It's better to know the condition of every part in the brake system and being afforded the time to really look at them all.
The advisor saying "really quick, check the fronts"
Means.
Estimate brake system.
Not price rotors, calipers, and pads in case we need them.
But it happens.
The mechanic might think the customers file is providing numerous inspections.
That's not a smart assumption for safety related systems.
You talk about doing the right thing. My aunt took her car into a shop because it was making some type of noise.
They did a brake inspection found rust on the rotors and they just told her just drive it the rust eventually break off, but yet it’s going to make all kinds of noise. How hard would it been to take the tire off and take a little bit of sandpaper to clean the rust off.
Once they get a lip you either have to cut them or replace them.
Keep that mechanic. It is much better than saying "you need new rotors and pads"
Chances are the labour would have been half the cost of a new set of brakes rotors.
Not all rotors are the same. My van needs to have the hub removed and the rotors are bolted to the hub.
Sounds like he might he been trying to save her money, but often that is a trap too from a customer service perspective, and it's just best to do a repair the problem and charge accordingly.
Because you have more of a chance of doing damage than good. Just drive it a bit, and everything will shine up. I wouldn't go after it, but I might take the car for a long test drive and run the brakes a little hard. So they can wait, or just go take a cruise themselves.
I started off in the trade. After working at a dealer. I decided not to continue, because of all the unethical things I saw. It just bothered my conscience!
Some rookie techs do put the retaining clips back on.
Hi Kenny, great video as always keep up the good work 👏.
It is still unfortunate that we in the industry have to defend our trade. I have always maintained that there is enough business to go around. We need not over sell, or do questionable work to make a decent living. Work ethically, the profits will take care of themselves. What the public fails to realize is the cost to operate a shop. Too many to mention, but just subscriptions alone will blow your mind. Thanks, the old school guy.
I agree, do the right thing
Of course! Your shop should be charging for a brake inspection and it is explicitly expected that the brakes would be checked.
Word to the wise: If you own or run a shop of any kind and your employees don't do things as they should - shame on you for not being the leader you should be. If you are the leader you should be and the employee doesn't do the "right thing" - then, shame on them.
After 20 uears surprised the adjuster cables on the shoe's weren't broken as well.
You are right!!!! Thank you !!
i dunno man, when i first started out and saw those clips i always put them back on, if that was a newbie doing the brakes, did one side, then when he was putting the clips back on, the mechanic in charge was probably like " oh you know you dont have to put those back on, right?" i can definitely see something like that happen
It's like being a detective sometimes, you have to consider all of the possibilities. novices especially do some really weird things with cars. I've pretty much seen it all. wait til they start playing with their A/C.. 🙄 now that's entertainment!
Thank You !
Thanks for watching 🔧
Thank you very very much I always appreciate all your videos and I learned so much from you too bad you weren't in Nassau County New York Long Island I have a 1997 Ford F-150 XL with over 300,000 miles on it I keep it running but sometimes when you bring it to a shop you got to know who the trust I have an old timer that I bring it to but he's getting up there in age and it's not the find somebody who you really can trust that's why I find your videos very very interesting keep up the awesome work it's greatly appreciated
Kenny I have done brakes on cars I have left the retaing clip an the rason is if wheel cones off the brake drum still stays on at All Time
There is plenty of money to make as a auto tech without ripping people off.
Bonded lining on the rear and riveted lining on the front... on BOTH sides. I don't think it came from the factory like that. You CAN get those clips off without breaking them... and there are a lot of mechanics put them back on.
I had my own truck recently inspected by a local inspection station and they never pulled a wheel or check the rear backing plates for any brake fluid seeping out put it on the computer for the emissions and then scraped off the old sticker and replaced it with a new one and charged me 35 dollars for the new inspection and I was done in 15 minutes. The shop owner knows me for the past 30 years and he knows that my vehicles are always in good shape but if they don’t do the right thing and at least pull a wheel on my stuff what is he letting get by with some of these rolling wrecks ??
Trouble shooting & knowledge on those rear shoes.
Good for another 20 years now.
Sir thank you for being a good honest mechanic. Would it have been prudent b/c of the age of the truck I had a 2001 Ford Ranger I loved it. TO put new drums on it also? I'm just asking if your doing all of the other stuff I would've paid for new drums as the customer. but that's just me. great video.
Great question !! I will always inspect a drum and make a decision about replacing. I should have covered that in the video , but didn't. If I see any scoring , heat check marks , or excessive wear , I will replace them .
I'll have to do a follow-up and explain myself better .
Thank you for the question !
And thanks for watching !
Always look with your own eyes. I've seen mechanics reinstall the assembly clips. 20 years old, but how many miles and in what area? A daily driver in the Rust Belt is going to wear differently than a yard truck in SC.
The hardware kit is a no-brainer, rusty springs lack tension and usually the adjuster cables are broken by then. I don't remember ever seeing a mix of bonded & riveted in a stock configuration, so that's odd to me. new shoes don't come that way, it's one or the other. I don't know the mileage, but I've never seen 20 yr old shoes with that much meat still on them. it's possible to replace those clips, but I can't imagine a pro making the effort when they are not needed. a home mechanic might think they have to replace those. but a shop could have made an honest job of this and made the truck safer for the customer. and so now you have. 🏁
Heh, it's probably from the preservative effects of the brake fluid. Last Ford I did drums on I had to break the driver side off by beating the drum with a four pounder until I shattered it. Someone hadn't locked in one of the nails for the retaining springs so the shoes wore themselves conical. And the adjuster was seized so there wasn't a way to back it off enough to sneak it off the taper.
Looks like the factory installed bonded secondary shoe and riveted primary shoe ,weird , I never saw this ,all the years I worked on cars ,maybe because I worked mostly for on brand .
Integrity is a odd commodity
Hey thanks again kenny
Thank you Kenny for your content. As a woman I have had to learn some car maintenance and your videos help. I always feel I’m getting ripped off when I go to mechanics.
I feel the same.
I hired a female electrician.. ripped me off big time.
@@petesmitt Ouch did I hit a nerve. I'm not saying all mechanics are the same. Clearly Kenny is a man and is a good mechanic or else I wouldn't be learning from him. I do know how you feel though I have felt like that about many male mechanics.
@@vir9iniaa I hired her because I thought a female tradie wouldn't rip me off like men often do; turns out gender has nothing to do with it.. it's just human nature at work; you need to find people with good character, but that can only be determined from experience.
You very right all the way
I have actually put that same clip back on....😕
The only good experience i've had with a dealership was Lexus they fixed my car under factory warrantee 8 years out of warrantee
Installing a half shoe set is possible as one side fails long before the other, and /or a diy'er did the job one day and the other side another day or better yet, two guys at once each on his side.
Reminds me of a joke :
Wages 25 $ /hour
50 $ ". to follow thé job & ask stupid questions all thé time.
100 $ / hour if you want to help 😝
Drum brakes can be a huge pain in the ass I'm glad my 89 ranger doesn't need them replaced yet
I do all my own maintenance, I actually put the assembly clips back on. Why does it always look like you are on the right hand side of the vehicle when you road test?
Camera is flipped left/right. Might be shooting with the front camera on a cell phone, you'll notice sometimes he shows the road or dash, but rather than turning the (I assume it's a phone) camera around, he probably toggles front/rear camera. There is a setting to change it, but watch the patch on his shirt. If the text is backward, the camera is flipping the video.
Kenny you need a cell phone tripod.
How ever was doing the state inspections on that truck wasn't doing their job ether thay shohave checked the breaks alao
Everybody's talking about brakes in these comments --- but why are you sitting on the right hand side at the end? Image flip, or right hand drive rural mail carrier truck?
Notice the riveted front and bonded rear on both sides?
Gonna check that one !
I just don't understand it. There is enough work to keep mechanics busy, so there is no reason to mislead people. So many people are lazy scammers.
Brakes and servicing are typically low skill high turnover jobs. People want to make the most money they can - it's called business.
@@Cheepchipsable That's true, but there are enough cars you don't have to steal. There are line ups for service and if you're reputable you're booked out 6 months. In Summit county Colorado the only shop that doesn't have a wait is Big-O, because they have a bad reputation. Everyone else is booked.
nobody wants to work on drum brakes they are too much of a pain, so they just keep replacing front pads that are easy to do.
The reason why the majority of the American populace leases their cars.......
That’s not true!
@@craigjorgensen4637
I literally have never met anyone who leases that when queried as to why they do so have responded other it being an attempt to steer clear of repair shops. But that's just me.
@@JC-oz6xn Some people do that. It is a way to avoid repair bills so long as the lessor doesn’t mind being on the old lease treadmill.
Craig....had the most remarkable string of 3 mechanics over last 30 years. Moved to new state. Have sampled the talents and expenses of 5 repair shops. I'm thinking of leasing to avoid being exposed to these individuals. It's sad.
I love the way you want it done right. But make excuses NOT to turn the drums. The drums should always be turned with new shoes to match the breaking area. I have enjoyed your videos up until I saw this one. You failed at what you stood for. Just because you made a excuse to make you right. That is a fail. Next time do the right thing turn the drums if you replace the shoes. Sorry if this hurts your feelings but you are the one that says do it right.
😃👍👍
You should resurface brake drums and rotors for more than imperfect run out ! Brake shoe manufacturers state that to properly brake in the parts you should machine the surface
Doing the right thing would have meant replacement of that drum after never been serviced. Safety for the customer is more important than price
My '72 Chevy C20 needed rear drums because they were deeply score. My local auto parts store wanted $102 per drum plus 3 days. Another wanted $122 per drum plus 3 days. Winston Tires wanted $200 per drum. I found a local brake supplier and asked if they had drums for my truck and if the sold to the public. They said yes at $75 per drum. I picked the drums up and mentioned Winston Tire wanted $200 per drum. They said, "Really? They het their drums from us!".
To be honest you should of cut the drums because they can become out of round
Yeah but the vehicle had no signs of pulsing, so why waste the time/money?
But it could pulsate down the road so what does it hurt nothing the objective is limiting returns that is what everyone wants the owner of the vehicle and the shop owner
@@waynerichards8606 In the future it may pulsate. That goes for any vehicle. You can't fix a dent before an accident. Also, there is a useable thickness on rotors and drums. If you cut them when its not necessary, they need to be replaced sooner.
People say I am wasting time and money but if he’s putting wheel cylinders and brake shoes and a spring kit in what is another $25.00 or $30.00 dollars on a job
@@waynerichards8606 Its not that big of a deal. Personally, I don't like to cut rotors or drums unless they really need it. Every time you cut, they get thinner, but its still a judgement call. Some people disagree with me, and that's OK. As long as whoever does the work knows what they're doing you'll be fine.
Call me nuts, but when I started doing brakes and came across those clips, I'd carefully pry them off, and put them back on...
I've also been known to obnoxiously cover the adjuster hole with a piece of electrical tape, in the absence of the rubber plug. I now have kits of plugs...