Z Motor Part 2: NEMA34 Motor Install and CNC Mill Tour
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2018
- Today we finish up the Z motor upgrade for the CNC mill by measuring, making a motor mount and installing the motor and driver. We also spend some time tuning the motor performance in MACH3.
And as long as we're taking the mill apart, we'll take a tour of the CNC conversion, the limit switch mounts and the electronics enclosure.
STL files for the limit switch mounts are available here: www.thingiverse.com/thing:313...
The couplers are available from McMaster-Carr:
www.mcmaster.com/catalog/124/...
I used the 1" diameter set-screw versions.
Very well engineered mods. Your expertise with Fusion 360 certainly is paying off. Thanks for the tour.
You sir, are an inspiration! I am certain to follow. Don’t worry I still make mistakes too. Thank you for including them in you videos.
wow, what a gem of a channel i just found! thank you!
Really been enjoying all your video's, lots of good info!
Great mix of useful information, interesting project, and good videography. Love it!
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.
Very knowledgeable instruction and easy explanation. Well done.
I know this is an old video but I subscribe last year and have been watching older videos. Great video by the way. I love how u even though in your mistakes. Makes me feel better about all my mistakes.
Makes me feel good about choosing Nema34/8.5nm closed loop servo motors :) I can't wait to start experimenting!
you can get higher torque 23's i have 1150 dual shaft nima 23's, and dual shaft 34's high toque motors and 4 stage nima 17's lot of torque.
Ciao James, mi meravigli sempre con i tuoi video.
I once worked with a TOUGH machinist who, when he was just starting out, mounted a steel ring in a large lathe (I believe he said it was a 21"swing), using 1-2-3 blocks to make it parallel, all under direct supervision of his boss. The blocks were left in place when he started the spindle, and of course, they flew out in rapid and random fashion🙄. One of them whacked him almost flat on one of the 1x2 sides just off-center in his forehead. He was still packing the scar and collapsed tissue 12 years later. He said it didn't knock him out, but he was seriously dazed and confused. Slow and steady wins the race... BTW, his supervisor thought it was hilarious!
Nice work, thanks for the video!
Even better the second time I watched it.
Yup, I put a chip clip on the switch BEFORE I put a parallel in the chuck, since my memory is about 0.01 seconds. Glad you avoided ventilation from the parallel.
Another Great Video, James!
your video gave me the confidence to dive into my own motor configuration, thanks! i've settled on a similar configuration to yours (25 mm/s² acceleration and 50 mm/s velocity on all axes)
I dont mean to be so off topic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an instagram account??
I somehow forgot the login password. I appreciate any tips you can give me
@Sullivan Cullen Instablaster ;)
@Toby Wade Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and I'm in the hacking process now.
Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Toby Wade It worked and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out !
@Sullivan Cullen No problem :D
Najs, just bought myself a pair of Nema34's and christ they are heavy and my machine is slightly smaller than your, but will attempt to get them on them anyway. Took inspiration of your motor mounts and will most likely machine something very similar soon too. Thanks for a great video.
Great idea for the endswitch in the Z coloumn, i convert aktually my mill, a BF20, similar to your mill.
Love your safety flip-flops :D
You mean safety-flip-flops? :)
Magic - I want one!
Cool video! Greetings from Belarus in 2021! ))
Switching power supply with 3F/50V supercaps (DIY) on the output for capturing the overload spikes should work.
You should use your mill to mill out a 3 the leg parallel. You make them different wall thickness to fit bigger or smaller parts. It wont fly out when that's in there. 😉
Looking very good! How do you lubricate the X,Y and Z axis during CNC operation?
did you check the amount of flex between the head and bed? I got over .020" on my mill. Had to make a frame to make it rigid.
do you know where one can get info on the CNC conversion, I did some searching but wasnt able to find it..
Dude you've lost weight, good job!!!!!!
I have. Thanks!
Super interesting video, thanks for sharing. I like your 3D printed lathe chuck key holder, any chance you could share the design on Thingiverse?
Hi. Thanks for all your videos I think iv watched every one 😅
I’m just wondering if all stepper drivers have the auto tuning feature on switch 4?
Thanks
Love it
Super erklärt Danke
In my years with the USAF, I learned the purpose of the "Remove before flight" streamer. May I recommend you use a similar streamer when you insert a potentially deadly object into moving parts? Perhaps you could print a bright cover to place over the Start switch if you don't want to tie a streamer onto your parallels, etc.
'tis said that regulations are written in blood.
Here, here. It can be thrilling to catch a chuck key too. Painting gauges is an obvious problem. In this case tie a streamer to a bulldog clip. You can then clip it near the problem.
Didn't mean to weird you out sir. It's on your thingiverse page. I just thought it was kinda cool.
Very impressive, you power/driver box looks super clean! I’m planning/ordering parts for my conversion and with every video I watch the cost of mine is rapidly increasing with all the options. I have linear rails coming in this week so I can get rid of the dovetail. If you were to do it all over would you stay with the 570oz for the x and y? Any idea why people aren’t putting closed loop hybrid steppers on these?
Well, a good guess would be price, or maybe they built their machine before closed-loop steppers showed up. Could always ask them!
i'd have put some weight on the table to make sure the motors can handle the acceleration when there's work on the table (for the x and y axis at least, z is probably fine). that said, have you had any issues after this tune?
need a breaking resistor on that lathe VFD, that takes way too long to slow down
Is the chuck grounded? You could maybe come up with an electronic-stop where you have a pin on a microcontroller float high and if it is pulled low (by touching the chuck) it disables the drive. Probably more complicated than that though...
I recently learned that there is a spec for single step error on step motors. I think most are +/- 5%, but I have seen +/- 3% error motors mentioned, but never with a source for where to buy them. Did you happen to look into this error when buying your motor? Thanks
do you have the stl files for the back covers i need for 23's and 34's ?
Hello, Do you know of any cheap alternatives to your Ethernet smoothstepper control board? I'm gathering informations to convert my SX2.7 into CNC. Thanks a lot
What kit did you use to convert your mill to CNC?
great video, why direct drive ?
Hi. Thanks for your video...good information, some was new...particularly the info about the 'auto-tuning' feature of dip switch 4. I didn't think that you could flip the dip switches once the driver was powered up. The MA860H cautions against doing so. Can you please give us some clarification on that point?
The auto-tuning procedure is described in the manual. I don't think you can switch the other (configuration) dip switches after power-up.
This driver is actually an OEM Leadshine unit. Every Leadshine digital driver manual I've looked at has this paragraph:
"However, if the user does not want to tune the current loop after changing a different stepping motor,
then Motor auto-identification and parameter auto-configuration technology of the DM556 can
replace manual tuning the Driver with ProTuner. Just changes SW4 two times in 1 second, and then
the Driver will auto-identify the new motor and auto-configure related control parameters for
optimum responses. Recommend use this function after changing the Driven motor."
Thanks. That does bring a great deal of clarification to the issue. I don’t have a Leadshine. While my MA860H manual from StepperOnline resources mentions in the introduction paragraph a brief description of a “self-adjustment” feature, when addressing the #4 dip switch in paragraph 7, they make no such reference to “self-adjustment” let alone on how to initiate it.
There is little credible resource / video on stepper / driver matchup and their respective tuning.
Thanks for your diligent work.
@@milehidude Yeah...I don't think that's a "digital" or "dsp" driver, so it wouldn't have that feature. Note that it has no serial port for programming.
Great video 👍Did you need to add resistors to your motors? Are you running your drivers in parrallel or series? Newbie here and asking before burning.
The current limit is set in the driver, so resistors are unnecessary. I'm not sure what you mean by drivers in series or parallel.
MILLLLLES MERCI
You used locktite for screws. How do you remove the screws if needed?
Could you please link the couplers/acetal discs? What are the specs on the Nema 23's?
I just added a link to the couplers in the video description. There are different part numbers for different shaft diameters and they come if a wide variety of sizes. I used the 1" diameter parts. If I remember correctly, the motors I used are actually NEMA24, rated at 570oz.in. torque. NEMA24 seems to be a little unusual. It's the same size as NEMA23, but with a different diameter shaft, I think.
I know the video is old.
But if you need to use (same size) paralell in the chuck to set repeated parts, you could print or make a "holder" for the paralell, which contains a switch, that prevents the machine from starting if the paralell is not stored back into position.
I like how you think. I think this would be a good addition to a chuck key holder. I typically use a spider these days, which stays in the chuck with the part.
@@Clough42
Yeah, that could be a great combo holder. I guess a spider is alot safer overall though.
Who sells those steel boxes to store the electronics?
I look forward to you making spiders.
realy like the way you made the limit switches away from damaging things hitting it , might be a bit hard to finetune it but then again you only need to do that once
please let me know when the files become available on thingaverse
I just uploaded the files: www.thingiverse.com/thing:3136835
Let me know how they work for you.
@@Clough42 I asked at Thingiverse as Zymurgy42, "Do you have available, Fusion 360 files?"
God bless americans. I have learned so much from them :D
Paint or dye the parallel in the chuck a bright color with stripes perhaps to make sure that you cannot forget it is there. It should not match the color of the chuck on the lathe.
Quick question...... Do you think that instead of using your linear power supply. A switching supply, feeding a bank of super-caps. Then through a couple of iron toroidal chokes, would do the job ??
Love your videos, im a automotive machinist im christchurch nz, i habe a optimill of the same variety, has been cnc for over a year, i am currently upgrading to 3d controller, automated vac, sprey and the factory spindle on and off theoigh its on off button, nema23 4nm, z axis nema34 8.5nm, ballscrews and single ball nuts, automatic lubrication to eaxh axis to two points on each side if axis and the ball nuts. Any way my question is this nema 34 has no brake, do you not have the problem with the z axis dropping when motors a powered down with the factory head stock? Curious if you are using z axis locks or is just doesnt drop? Asking as i have used the locks threads for threaded oiling fittings and may need to add a lock before i find i jave to pull apart again amd do before i actually put it together with the ballscrew conversion, obviously didnt have the problem with the old lead screws that came with. Thanks for the videos, you and this old tony are my fav youtube machinist videos!
Not with the stepper and screw combo I have. It's more of an issue with servos.
@@Clough42 thank you very much for the reply!
@@Clough42 thank you very much for the reply!
nice
Would be interesting to know what ball screws are you using? and what nut arrangement/tolerance class on those components? Cheers and thanks for your videos
They're C7 rolled screws with double nuts and solid spacers. End bearings are double angular contact, preloaded with shims.
@@Clough42 awesome, thanks! got got almost the same setup for my 45 clone, but p1 single nut. the backlash issue then comes in, and this time, it is a issue unlike on the lathe :D one to two thou. i will first upgrade to smothsteppers tho, and then see if i also do the double nut arrangement, as it limits the travel for the Y somewhat
@@MrZhefish I'm still struggling with about .0015" or so backlash. Maybe .0025" on Z. I need to tear it all down and see what I can do. I suspect the spacers between the nuts are too loose, and this might be intentional to keep the nuts from jamming, since the C7 screws will have slight lead changes. Or it could just be that the screws have worn in and I can shim the spacers.
@@Clough42 yeah that's about what i have with my single nut P1; 0.0025-0.003 on Z too, and around 0.002 on Y, the x is almost good now. It helped me a lot to make sure the cap nuts for the spindle are tight, and i did not like the grub screw, so i used loctite after i checked i can undo it with break cleaner, as i can't introduce heat to the part without deforming it.
My Z has a puffer in form of a pneumatic springs that push the head up, it's far from perfect yet.
I am also not entirely sure if more accurate lead screws are so beneficial, as your and mine machine are not that ridged as one might think. the cutting force, the runout of the spindle and everything else adds up, and it's not that easy to get it spot on - even if, the question is for how long. Even with my ISO30 Spindle, the bearings already begin to tell me, that the machine is used over it's design as a cnc cycle is harder on the parts as conventional operation for sure
maybe that's one of the reason most go to linear rails as the next upgrade too.... I've seen some even add concrete or epoxy into the machine to make it sturdier.
please advise where you get that bottle cap with a hose hole in it
www.thingiverse.com/thing:1645386
@@gordonnewell thank you very much Gordon!
Nice. I have a question on limit switches. Why wouldn't you just store the limits on the computer and completely illuminate the switches? I thought of this when I noticed your acceleration +/- control. To have complete control over accel. one would need to know, before hand, when to start accel. in negative direction -- the faster you go the sooner you need to start to slow down. Because of this, you need to know the full travel before hand.
The controller does have software limits, with deceleration to a stop, but you need the switches so it can figure out where zero is when the machine is powered on. And if the stepper motors lose steps at any point, it can still run into the end. If it hits a limit switch unexpectedly, it stops hard, without decelerating. It's very violent, and you want to avoid it.
Hi Clough, please, could you me where can I buy your deburring and chamfering tool? Thank so much and best regards from Spain.
What is the name and supplier of that powersupply?
Which model of Nema 34 did you use please
Any luck?
Curious as to what material you used to make your enclosure?
I'd like to bump this question up, I've just put together a ply tray for my mill ( needs sealing atm) and I'm looking at some ideas for enclosing the mill.
Really enjoy the videos mate.
@@awomandoesnothaveapenis I believe James has mentioned in other videos that it’s Coroplast or similar (corrugated plastic board often used for yard signage).
@@g.tucker8682 Cheers mate I was thinking along those lines
Can you run a 34 at 400 pm with acceleration at 25 or 30?
I'm not totally certain what you're asking. If you're asking about running a NEMA34 motor on this mill and getting 400IPM on the Z axis with an accerleration of 25 to 30, I think that's unlikely at 48V. The NEMA34 has a lot more torque than the NEMA24 motors I was using before, but it also has higher inductance, so it probably wouldn't run that fast with any significant load. A higher voltage would help overcome the increased inductance, but that still seems pretty fast for reliable operation on a heavy Z axis.
Clough42 i was going to ask about inductance. what spec is the nema 34 you used. Also at 125 inch/min velocity what rpm would the motor spin at
I forgot to remove the chuck key one time. Luckily it flew out away from me .... right towards a window. Luckily there were some blinds over the window which slowed down the key enough that it did not break the glass. Too much luck in that story.
3:33 "neemer"... amazing way to say N.E.M.A. THANKS a bushel
The best mistakes to learn from are the ones that don't send you to the hospital. Lathe spiders are a worthwhile project even just considering safety.
Agreed. I have a spider, but it's too thick for this part. Sounds like I have a lathe spider video in my future. :)
Great Video you should be an instructor
Thank you!
Dude ! You were LUCKY !! Or did you have a plastic Jesus, stuck on your gearbox ??
11:25.. Two things are wrong. The imperial system and workshop safety :P :)
Let he who is without sin throw the first gauge blo... uh, stone. I meant stone...
Did you experience any problems with the ball screw on the Z axis slowly lowering the mill headstock down when the Z axis stepper was unpowered?
Not at all. I do have the gibs pretty tight, but it hasn't been an issue even when they were loose.
@@Clough42 Thankyou Mr. Clough. I had some concerns about it and thought that I might have to include a counterbalance mechanism of some sort with the mill that I am converting to use Clearpath servos.
@@a0cdhd the clear path servo is a different animal. Not sure how much if any cogging it presents to the load.
@@Clough42 I will let you know Mr. Clough so that you may spread enlightenment to the rest of the planet should some other silly bugger ask the same question.
Using the parallel isn't as accurate as trimming both sides, measure length, place in chuck, slowly bring tool up to end until it just touches, remove difference to final length. Works even better if you have a DRO on the bed.
Summary for copying electronics:
NEMA23s XY - 4NM
NEMA34 Z - 8.5NM
High parallel misalignment coupler
800W toroidal + regulators - switching bad?
Stepper drivers - XY KL-5056D 5.6A- not linear because resonance - kl-8070d for Z 72v - 7.1a
Controller - parallel port breakout (now not used) - ethernet smoothstepper pci card £180
8 microstepping
PC - miniITX via running xp - ssd
150inch/mm XY, 125inch/min Z, 32inch/s/s
May I suggest you invest in a dro?
I have a DRO sitting in a box. I'll be getting to that project at some point soon. So many projects...
why 1m /sec. /sec. or why the extra /sec.
Why didn't you just make two blocks on your mill for use as standoffs?
The fix is the motion controller; embedded processor controls the steppers..did same w a Z80 and a PC-AT for a spring tester I made in 1987,
Your stepper drive problems probably all go back to that hokey direct control by XP/PC through the breakout board; XP is NOT a real-time OS.
A single switcher for each axis is probably fine.
FYI: Those stepper drivers are just re-branded Chinese generics.
Your upgrade; why didn't you just go to a one-piece XHC Ethernet breakout motion controller.
I'd chop out the PC and use a laptop connected to the ethernet interface; somewhere you have a mouse, keyboard and display.
Closed loop steppers would be a better application than open loop; especially on a metal cutting mill. Missed steps on an expensive
machining job would pay for the closed loop steppers!
With that XHC you can add a pendant! Should be plug and play.
You probably know all this by now though!
Nice explanation of the controller layout!
Mm le
Argh missed steps will waste your life, I'm using closed loop steppers for my pm25 build, they really aren't much more expensive!
(Assuming you have a toroidal transformer) missing steps are just Nature's way of telling you to crank your axis acceleration back the f##k down. That's it. I have exactly zero missed steps on both CNCs I'm in charge of. One of them _identical_ to the one in the vid.
From what I understood, hybrid close loop stepper motors system avoid having them full powered when at stop position. Futhermore, the servo hybrids stepper motors have a higher torque at high speed and are light weight. This way it could be possible to keep the nema 23 equivalent form factor.
Yeah. Everyone wants more speed. Including me. :)