The smartest renewable rooftop system in the world?

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  • Опубликовано: 26 янв 2025

Комментарии • 1,1 тыс.

  • @AntonHinxman
    @AntonHinxman Год назад +320

    Cooling the roof of the top flats and battery units during summer as well = totally brilliant.

    • @yeroca
      @yeroca Год назад +5

      This got me thinking about using fans and/or heatsinks to cool the underside of PV panels. Surely people have looked into that...

    • @daffyduck780
      @daffyduck780 Год назад +9

      It's on top of a tower and has facilities for a maintenance cradle. Sounds like a good place for a gravity battery

    • @alanhat5252
      @alanhat5252 Год назад +4

      @@yeroca yes people have looked into that & you can buy products today

    • @qa1e2r4
      @qa1e2r4 Год назад +3

      Well thank you for bringing this up to everyone. That is clearly the future and similar "hybrid" systems are the way to go... something that stuck out was they are modifying the air flow for heating purposes but why not just connect it to the air circulation system as well and use it to cool down the building itself? The air intakes are always on the top so might as well. And when are we going to see the first air turbines with solar cells on the propellers ? Toridal designs are perfect for that no? bonus points if you engineer it with reflective surface on the opposite side of the solar panel side that powers the under side :P

    • @janami-dharmam
      @janami-dharmam Год назад +8

      This also cools the roof (actually prevents it getting heated by the direct sun) and that reduces the air conditioning load, at least for the residents of the top floor.

  • @d1j16
    @d1j16 Год назад +351

    This looks promising, especially when applied to taller buildings.
    I'm an advocate for every flat roofed structure to have renewable energy power sources installed on them.

    • @lawrencetaylor5407
      @lawrencetaylor5407 Год назад +16

      @d1j16 Agreed. The frustrating thing is getting technologies like this widespread. In my city of Ottawa, Canada, I've yet to see any of the green roofs installed on any of the dozens of new buildings gone up, and that concept is probably at least 15 years old. I've also noticed that many of the buildings in my neighborhood are poorly insulated, despite the energy crunch all the way back in the 1970s.

    • @yodaiam1000
      @yodaiam1000 Год назад +6

      Unfortunately, many of the old buildings can't take the extra load.

    • @yeroca
      @yeroca Год назад +5

      @@lawrencetaylor5407 Builders and customers are generally more sensitive to the costs of construction, not poorly-understood savings and possible maintenance issues of its operation. Maybe you can lobby your local government to enact some ordinances and incentives regarding new construction as well as retrofits.

    • @freenando75
      @freenando75 Год назад +5

      and important, after one realizes the fraud that is energy markets, to do local community of energy

    • @greghawkins3315
      @greghawkins3315 Год назад +4

      I have one concern, since cities are continually allowing taler building I is likely that these installations will in the future be in sun shadow and\or wind shaddows. This suggests that maximun building height need to be standardized. Alternativey we need laws forbidding putting existing solar\wind shaddows. This law should also apply to houses and should also require neighbors to prune trees if they shaddow solar pannels.

  • @BobQuigley
    @BobQuigley Год назад +145

    Certainly most integrated comprehensive way of creating mini grids using readily available existing technologies. Brilliant! Thanks!

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +7

      Glad it was helpful!

    • @bertrandcausse548
      @bertrandcausse548 Год назад +1

      Such a promising system! I feel for the birds, is there any study on the subject? would it be counter productive to have a protection allowing the wind to get in and not the birds?

  • @xanokothe
    @xanokothe Год назад +25

    I am living in Eindhoven and this project looks pretty nice from the outside

    • @matthewtalbot-paine7977
      @matthewtalbot-paine7977 Год назад +1

      The way it looks is a benefit I suppose but if it's looks over function or price then I'd rather have something that is an eyesore but generates a lot of power for very little money. I'd love to know how much it cost, how much the subsidies were and how much power it generates per year but these seem pretty hard to find.

  • @yodaiam1000
    @yodaiam1000 Год назад +86

    Looks like an interesting idea. As a structural engineer, I have to say you would be pretty lucky to find a building that would support the extra wind and gravity loads. It would be rare to find a building that could take the loads without expensive upgrading requirements. If it is built into a new design, the extra costs would not be too bad.

    • @AJPemberton
      @AJPemberton Год назад +12

      It was mentioned that the weight of the units was equivalent to about 12cm of water on the roof, which was apparently within operational limits. The wind loading from the turbines would be much lower than an equivalent horizontal axis one, but I have no idea how much that would be. It didn't appear to require any extra reinforcement in the clips shown... they looked to be installed straight n to the roof?

    • @yodaiam1000
      @yodaiam1000 Год назад +20

      @@AJPemberton It isn't within the limits of the vast majority of existing buildings. A 1.2KPa additional roof load is a pretty high jump in load (some areas only require a 1.0KPa roof load design but a typical roof is designed for 1.5 to 2.0KPa. High up in the mountains or rare locations you might get up to 12KPa or even more). The increase in wind is substantial since the extra wind load is at the top of the building. It is at the worst location. The load may not be quite as much as an additional story but it will be close. You want the force and blade velocity to be high to get the most power out of the system.

    • @AJPemberton
      @AJPemberton Год назад +3

      @@yodaiam1000 Thanks for the details. I'm not well-versed in building code, so nice to have the extra info. Were the typical roof loads you mentioned for just high-rise buildings, or did they cover all building types? I ask because most residential dwellings (which numerically are the more 'typical structure) don't have flat roofs loaded with equipment such as aircons, lift equipment, etc, and I guess would require lower loading standards.
      As for the additional wind loading, would the change in airflow the units cause mean higher, equal or lower overall stress on the building? This was shown at 6:15 and to my eye, it appears the wind loading would be at least similar to an unaltered rooftop?

    • @yodaiam1000
      @yodaiam1000 Год назад +10

      @@AJPemberton Under very specific circumstances, the wind load might be equivalent or even less but that does not occur in the general case. The FE model shown looks like a fairly specific geometry. The wind load will most certainly be relatively higher on a lower building (comparing a low building without the system with a low building with the system). You actually want the force and velocity on the turbine to be high to maximize power. If the turbines just spun without too much resistance, you are not generating much power (unless the turbines are super fast).
      The code minimums vary depending on location, geometry for snow drift etc. It is not related to the height of the roof (in most codes). So high rises have no more snow load requirement than a typical building. However, they generally can support higher loads since the roof is typically concrete and you just get higher capacities just because of the material used. But the same is not true for the lateral capacity.

    • @QuesoCookies
      @QuesoCookies Год назад +7

      @yodaiam1000 Snow was the part I was thinking about. Initially, I'd think the darker surface of the panels in high wind places would prevent the snow from building up on the panels, but all the open air beneath the panels would certainly let snow drift on the roof and then be shaded, preventing it from melting quickly and causing dangerous excess loads. Not sure how well it'd work in snowy areas to put extra weight on a roof and encourage snow build-up where snow weight is already a big hazard.

  • @youmakeitreal
    @youmakeitreal Год назад +89

    Just became a patreon. You help dissipate all the fud about "renewable" energy generation with actual reports on viable projects going on right now. As well as promoting critical thinking.
    Cheers;
    Jason from Colorado USA

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +6

      Always glad to see there is an American familiar with the concept of Critical Thinking. Tell your friends; don't keep something like this secret.

    • @youmakeitreal
      @youmakeitreal Год назад +1

      @@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 😆 a challenging task!

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +12

      @@youmakeitreal No kidding. Half of Congress thinks tornados are caused by space lasers.

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +4

      Thanks Jason. I really appreciate your support. see you over at Patreon :-)

  • @craigknight2764
    @craigknight2764 Год назад +124

    What a neat system and a fantastic retrofit opportunity. Invariable the consumer end of the grid would need upgrading if this were adopted at scale. Also, electricity storage in each building would be great for power outages and peak demand reduction. At the apartment block scale flow batteries could be in the plant rooms?

    • @juskahusk2247
      @juskahusk2247 Год назад +5

      We better hurry up with this because we're almost a third of the way through The Decisive Decade.

    • @TheLosamatic
      @TheLosamatic Год назад +9

      Let’s not forget all the batteries in the EV’s should always be hooked up doing something while they mostly sit doing nothing!

    • @janami-dharmam
      @janami-dharmam Год назад +1

      Sun bathing on the roof top is now out for young dutch ladies.

    • @daffyduck780
      @daffyduck780 Год назад +3

      Why not add a second maintenance cradle as a gravity battery?

    • @etienne8110
      @etienne8110 Год назад

      Appartements mean fewer roof surface/inhabitants. And even fewer as the building has more floors.
      This system has the most use in personnal houses. Best EROI/inhabitant.
      City rooftops are better used for farming.

  • @truerthanyouknow9456
    @truerthanyouknow9456 Год назад +2

    Thank you for keeping business concepts like Return on Investment front and centre in your presentations.

  • @davidantill6949
    @davidantill6949 Год назад +54

    I love it, Dave. It's a real winner. Your videos are extremely good too. Keep it up 👍🏻

  • @htschad9685
    @htschad9685 Год назад +1

    I live in the USA and in recent years there have been many warehouses constructed where I live. This application would be perfect fit , there are so many they feasibly could be power plants as well! One can dream ….

  • @demonhighwayman9403
    @demonhighwayman9403 Год назад +77

    A great design, I'd love to see these fill city rooftops.

  • @5353Jumper
    @5353Jumper Год назад +1

    Another benefit of rooftop solar like this, particularly for short wide buildings like malls and light commercial/industrial space, is that it greatly reduces the need for air conditioning keeping hot sun off the roof. So not only generates electricity, is also reduces demand for electricity.

  • @ChitFromChinola
    @ChitFromChinola Год назад +16

    The innovation in this space is mind-blowing. Love the integration of form and function.

  • @jonathangold2087
    @jonathangold2087 Год назад +1

    Sounds like a brilliant way to reduce the need for large scale, centralized electric power production?
    and at the same time increase energy efficiency
    of buildings already in existence. Not at all surprised that the Dutch would come up with
    such an amazing system! They seem to do this
    many different things. Bravo!!! I hope this idea
    catches on throughout Europe, North America
    and the rest of the world. It would appear to have
    significant application in urban settings
    anywhere. Thanks for bringing this wonderful
    energy efficient technology to our attention!
    Very much enjoy watching your podcasts, always
    something new to learn, about so many different
    topics. Thanks for all your efforts!

  • @Xero1of1
    @Xero1of1 Год назад +10

    I like this idea. Simple. Effective. Makes use of space that would otherwise not be utilized.

  • @boklasarmarkus
    @boklasarmarkus Год назад +50

    It's nice to hear about a project that was started a while ago and thus has had time to reach comercial deployment. Keep up the good work.

  • @leftcoaster67
    @leftcoaster67 Год назад +6

    Simple, elegant. Cutting costs by 85% is pretty damn good.

  • @edward9674
    @edward9674 Год назад +7

    I love solutions that use pre existing parts and specifications!

  • @invisiblewizard2538
    @invisiblewizard2538 Год назад +51

    It's great to see that just utilising the top of the high rise like that can produce such a massive majority of the energy needs for the whole tower!
    Community energy has always been my hope and aim, ever since my Mum campaigned in the 1980s for our local government to move to renewable energy independence for the island nation where I grew up - didn't work, they still rely on oil and gas: but it left me with an understanding of the concepts and good sense of local renewable power for the community.

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +6

      This would add options for city dwellers of concrete jungles to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Elegant solution. Hopefully the Fossil Fuel Demons don't attack the permitting process.

    • @robertstrader3267
      @robertstrader3267 Год назад +3

      Yes and no need for huge new infrastructure investment in transmission lines! That should also be taken into consideration when calculating "levelized cost of energy production".

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +5

      @@robertstrader3267 Yes, good point. I could envision some heat battery system carrying energy to the basement structure where all the power distribution and concrete is located anyways. Big thermal battery with a hot water pipe going to the roof, for instance. Get the battery weight off the roof and retrofit even more buildings.

    • @Kevin_Street
      @Kevin_Street Год назад +2

      Islands are probably the best use case for renewable energy. Your Mum had the right idea. I wonder if they'd change their minds about it today, with the current price of oil and gas.

    • @robertstrader3267
      @robertstrader3267 Год назад +1

      @@Kevin_Street We are all on one big island.

  • @Zed_Oud
    @Zed_Oud Год назад +1

    This would be crazy great in Arizona.
    It’s decently windy there and the vertical spacing would help eliminate cooling costs.

  • @SusanHaumeder
    @SusanHaumeder Год назад +31

    Lovely! Thanks for this. I love the idea, and even the community ownership is intriging. It does matter what the ownership of the units in the building or building itself is. What immediately comes to my mind is maintenance. 25 years isn't really that long of a time.

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +10

      Thanks Susan. I suspect these systems will last far longer than their quoted lifetime.

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +11

      25yr service life seems pretty long if you're 25; Less so if you're not. Often that 25yr quote is for 80% capacity. So after 20yrs, 80% of initial rating is still produced. In comparison nuclear power plants are often 60 year total design life, then you have a bunch of radioactive waste and concrete to deal with. Not to mention the radioactive mining to get that radioactive material to begin with.
      If you're looking for a deal on solar panels, buy used. They are at a point in their design life where they have been replaced for commercial use, but still putting out 80%-90% of their rated power.
      I imagine the same for this system: sell the PV after 20 years. Those will go into a ground mount system, and new panels will be installed on the roof where space is a premium. This can be done with a wrench.
      The wind turbines really only need bearings and possibly a motor coil rewound with copper. Not a huge issue, and plenty of motor shops exist currently to do exactly that.
      One thing that isn't a wear part is the geometric design. This is really the big advantage here of using the same square area twice-over for both wind and solar.
      I don't like flat roofs, not one bit. But if you have one, this system seems really elegant. Hopefully it is widely adopted and quickly.

    • @alanhat5252
      @alanhat5252 Год назад +3

      @@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 handling large lightweight panels on a windy rooftop will require more than just a wrench but yes, it is feasible.

    • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
      @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +5

      @@alanhat5252 Fair point; two wrenches.

  • @grado1370
    @grado1370 Год назад +1

    This is an amazing solution achieved by just connecting smartly the dots of available technology? Impressive! should be obligatory for such buildings

  • @PowerRepublic
    @PowerRepublic Год назад +4

    Epic idea. everyone loves 'free power' especially if the cost is built into the purchase price of the new residence.

  • @eriktempelman2097
    @eriktempelman2097 Год назад +1

    Great to see this getting attention.
    Minor gripe: Henri Ford did not invent part standardization (nor the assembly line, for that matter). But yes, he did use it very effectively.

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад +1

      In the U.S. Eli Whitney is usually credited with part standardization due to his government contract for 15,000 muskets at the dawn of the 19th century.
      The only way to fulfill that contract was to create interchangeable parts en-mass at his armory.
      Around mid-century Samuel Colt was producing hundreds of his patented revolvers each day using interchangeable parts and assembly line style division of labour.
      What Ford did best was to vertically integrate. They owned the mines, furnaces, mills and forges/stamping plants. They owned the forests and lumber mills that supplied their coach works and wheelwrights

    • @eriktempelman2097
      @eriktempelman2097 Год назад

      @@jimurrata6785 textbook quality! I am impressed

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад

      @@eriktempelman2097 I grew up here in Connecticut and I'm a geek of industrial and material technology. 🤓
      Most of our industry is gone, other than military contractors like Electric Boat, Sikorsky, P&W, Norden, etc...
      This state was the epicenter of firearms production since the revolutionary war but the political climate is too hostile now.

  • @stp926
    @stp926 Год назад +16

    An extremely elegant design. It deserves to be a great success.

  • @michaelmcclafferty3346
    @michaelmcclafferty3346 Год назад +1

    A very uplifting video Dave, thanks.
    I have already invested in shares in Ripple Energy’s community energy project in Scotland.
    I think that community energy has a big future. Good luck to Ibis.

  • @snowstrobe
    @snowstrobe Год назад +10

    Ever since I read about this system I have included it in all my housing dreams. I love that it can be retrofitted too.
    And as for community ownership, any set up that takes control of electrical power out of the hands of for-profit private companies or the government and puts it in the hands of people is a win in my book.

    • @toddberkely6791
      @toddberkely6791 Год назад +1

      it would be interesting to see how its efficiency scales with size. hopefully small units would present as much as a benefit for single family houses as these larger units.

    • @Energine1
      @Energine1 Год назад

      @@toddberkely6791 Nope

  • @Dysiode
    @Dysiode Год назад +30

    This is probably the most exciting system you've highlighted to date! Not least because -it's actually here today-! One benefit of LEED certified buildings is they often put soil and vegetation on the roof for cooling and insulation, which certainly helps, but being able to instead harness energy while shading the building is super exciting! Especially given that every rooftop component would have better performance and/or longevity if they're protected from solar and heat radiation.

  • @lucemiserlohn
    @lucemiserlohn Год назад +25

    I'd love to see a version of this that not only has PV, but also solar heating elements. That would be way more useful for residential buildings. One could run smaller heat collectors in between the PV panels, and on a full rooftop that should yield enough heat for at least the warm water generation, even in winter.

    • @lordgarion514
      @lordgarion514 Год назад +2

      Don't need heat collectors for hot water.
      They could have chosen to water cool the panels.
      That gives them lots of hot water, and makes the panels even more efficient.

    • @AJPemberton
      @AJPemberton Год назад +8

      that might be complicated to do. Water is not exactly light, and the amount needed to heat a multi-story building would weigh tons. You would have to reinforce the roof and add pipes throughout the structure to get the hot water into each room. Running electrical cables is a lot easier. The added complexity and maintenance may make it not worthwhile even in a new purpose-built building, let alone retro-fitting an existing one.

    • @Aaron_We
      @Aaron_We Год назад +2

      I agree with Anthony. The econmics of solar heating elements got worse over the last couple of years with PV falling stronger in price and the rising installation costs playing a bigger role in solar heating. Combining heat pumps with PV is often times a sensibel solution

    • @janami-dharmam
      @janami-dharmam Год назад

      @@lordgarion514 Europe even summers are not really that hot. But that is going to be a real problem in Asia, particularly South Asia. Summers routinely reach 40C plus plus. But I find water cooling to be messy and air cooling far more efficient.

    • @lordgarion514
      @lordgarion514 Год назад

      @@janami-dharmam
      No one cares what you find, AND you're wrong.
      The absolute scientific fact is that using water is more efficient at cooling things than using air.
      And that's simply because water moves more heat than air does.
      "One litre of water can bring about 3000 times more energy out from a system when compared with one litre of air. This comes from the physical properties of air: it’s heat conductivity is poor."

  • @nerknerk8834
    @nerknerk8834 Год назад +2

    This speaks to the three questions that should be asked at the beginning of any project or design. What are we doing? Why are we doing it?

  • @digiryde
    @digiryde Год назад +5

    Synergism. Its an often miused word, but not here. Good thinking. Good presentation!

  • @lonnieschreiner5879
    @lonnieschreiner5879 Год назад +2

    Very interesting concept and utilization of roof top space.

  • @danburnes722
    @danburnes722 Год назад +8

    Love the integrated complimentary technologies here. Get the costs right, and this is a big winner that could be made ubiquitous. Like your enthusiasm Dave!

  • @larrybolhuis1049
    @larrybolhuis1049 Год назад +2

    Add yet a little whipped cream on that desert, any A/C units up there on the roof, as well as the roof itself, are now in the shade AND getting a lot of air across them as well. Yet another win!

    • @sjsomething4936
      @sjsomething4936 Год назад

      But they’d also emit heat, which then reduces the efficiency of the solar panels so there’s a tradeoff to be made. It certainly might be worth it as the wind would quickly disperse and carry away the heat, it’d require a cost/benefit analysis to determine if overall would be better or worse.

  • @jogon1052
    @jogon1052 Год назад +3

    Once again you have provided so much information on how countries can alleviate supply problems with proper planning and governments enforcing the use of such innovations.

  • @beautifulgirl219
    @beautifulgirl219 Год назад +2

    Looks like Ibis Power has been having a think. Great news. Thanks!

  • @tedbomba6631
    @tedbomba6631 Год назад +5

    During my education years I was taught to utilize ' non-linear ' thinking whenever planning to undertake a new project and for its duration; same concept just a different way of saying it.
    This roof mounted wind and solar energy generation system is a brilliant example of this way of thinking and how, with a little tweaking, so many other useful applications it could offer.

    • @buttonasas
      @buttonasas Год назад +1

      I still don't understand how it's "non-linear" or "lateral", it seems to me that it had simply more thought put into it?

    • @tedbomba6631
      @tedbomba6631 Год назад +1

      @@buttonasas : you are absolutely correct. Both methods are simply ways to remind one to keep on looking for additional ways to solve a problem or for additional applications for your new information. Thinking outside the box is yet another way of saying to keep thinking !

    • @martinwilliams9866
      @martinwilliams9866 Год назад

      ​@@tedbomba6631 There is no box!

  • @Umski
    @Umski Год назад +1

    It's refreshing to see a company make use of tried and tested modular technology rather than trying to re-invent the wheel with exaggerated claims from weird and wonderful designs that rarely stack up to any tangible results - well done and I hope to see these on every tall building in time to come!

  • @peterdollins3610
    @peterdollins3610 Год назад +6

    Brilliant idea well expressed.

  • @Kiboxxx
    @Kiboxxx Год назад +1

    This is such a cool invention! I must say, I would always prefer electricity generation over heat generation; You could instead use water-cooling underneath the solar cells, that way you would cool them and you could use the generated heat to heat your building. But this would require more plumbing and would not be such a standardised solution for every building, so I favour the wind cooled approach.

  • @sjsomething4936
    @sjsomething4936 Год назад +22

    I really have to hand it to the Netherlands, being on the front line of climate change, they are taking the lead in trying to implement new technologies that should help mitigate the amount of greenhouse gases they produce. This extremely clever integration of technologies looks like a winner, I’m actually going to forward the info to the group within our company that looks at reducing the not-insignificant impact of our operations. As a bonus, it looks as if this will pay for itself in a very reasonable time frame.

    • @derekcraig3617
      @derekcraig3617 Год назад +1

      Solar panels in the Netherlands are carbon positive due to the fact that they are made with electricity from coal and the Netherlands doesn't have enough sun to get the most out of PV panels.

    • @HoboInASuit4Tune
      @HoboInASuit4Tune Год назад +1

      @@derekcraig3617 Source?

    • @sjsomething4936
      @sjsomething4936 Год назад +2

      @@derekcraig3617 and yet even if that’s a fact (made with power from coal) it’s irrelevant. Before we had coal or oil we had wood, and that’s what we used to smelt the first metals, which were then used to produce the boilers that consume the coal you seem to be so fond of. Does this surprise you? It’s called bootstrapping, you should look up the concept. Let me jump you ahead a few decades… humanity, after a period of time is able to produce sufficient quantities of energy from renewable sources to power all consumer and industrial needs, including to produce solar panels and wind turbines with no use of fossil fuels. At which time we’ll be able to (mostly) retire them. And trolls, or paid shills such as yourself will have to move on to whining about something else.

    • @derekcraig3617
      @derekcraig3617 Год назад

      @@sjsomething4936 wait, how am I fond of coal? where did I say I love coal?

    • @DrakeN-ow1im
      @DrakeN-ow1im Год назад

      @@derekcraig3617 You didn't - but why such an irrelevant comment in the first place?

  • @Sugi1971
    @Sugi1971 Год назад +1

    Brilliant, I think this other design of roof turbines to generate green Energy is the best so far and very good because it can be used on existing buildings in villages, towns and cities. Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to what's new in green energy.

  • @limbodog
    @limbodog Год назад +4

    I love it! My questions are: what happens during a hurricane? What happens when there's a meter of snow on top? And how many holes does this put in the roof?

    • @harcovanhees394
      @harcovanhees394 Год назад

      Luckely we have allmost none hurricanes in The Netherlands. And (sadly because probably climate change) also seldom snow. I think it will be blown of for the biggest part. About the holes, I can’t answer but I don’t think that will be an issue. What may be an issue is the building quality and if there is a chance of earthquakes, a sad lesson from Turkey 😢

  • @h-j.k.8971
    @h-j.k.8971 Год назад +1

    Roofs of high rise buildings are usually clutteres up with AC´s Vent systems etc. Some work to do there.

  • @thetruemorg
    @thetruemorg Год назад +9

    @10:00So I thought the whole thing is pretty cool use of wind and solar but the idea of adding a perfect structure to be able to do window cleaning and maintenance on the outside of the building really truly gives it the highest rating.
    I lived in a building for about 6 years that had a rooftop garden and was supposed to add extra energy with the solar panels but after the first year they just gave up. All the stuff overgrew that at one point the maintenance guy couldn't even access the rooftop without basically destroying the rooftop access lol. The plant growth also screwed up attachment points that they had engineered for people to do window cleaning that's sadly ended up in death of a window cleaner.
    After that happened they couldn't find employees willing to do that work because of various financial concerns. Beyond that the idea of having a fixed well-designed way to be able to do all the maintenance on the outside of the building Plus drop energy costs is really fantastic. Lateral thinking is not just making things more effective but genuinely safer for everyone who has to interact with the building. Love the channel thanks for the cool video this week.

  • @stormelemental13
    @stormelemental13 Год назад +2

    I'm very interested in this one because it's actually at the commercial stage.

  • @domitron
    @domitron Год назад +4

    This is REALLY cool! I hope to see more of them.

  • @badrinair
    @badrinair Год назад +2

    Wonderful project. Hope the ibis team finds great success . Thank you for sharing

  • @tomo1168
    @tomo1168 Год назад +6

    That is very clever. With the weight there coul'd be at some buildings a problem. They are designed for the snow weight, this 2-300 kg/m2 adds to that and maybe exceeds the design limits.
    The solution could be with the pv-modules. As far as I know, if you drive current through pv-panels, they produce heat, wich could be handy to melt the snow and with that to eliminate that weight.

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад

      Actually they produce light, with heat as a byproduct of inefficiency losses.
      You'd be better off with a purely resistive heat trace running between cells, like the rear window defroster of an automobile.

  • @TegraZero
    @TegraZero Год назад +2

    it also cools down top floor of building, they can also collect water by putting mesh around building, it traps humidity from the air and turns it into usable water. building can collect that water for self usage if they use this type of net mesh with tiny threads to collect water in it's entire wall areas

  • @andrewharrison8436
    @andrewharrison8436 Год назад +5

    Eindhoven is a lovely city with some interesting and attractive architecture - a development like this will fit in well.
    Excellent news, a modular system makes including it in designs a no brainer.

    • @loocro
      @loocro Год назад +1

      It's already implemented, second one is close to be built, next to the train station

  • @ianstewart7605
    @ianstewart7605 Год назад +1

    I love the appearance of this as well as all the other advantages. It gives the rectangular building a 'hat' that finishes it off elegantly.

  • @Kenchan1337
    @Kenchan1337 Год назад +4

    Nice one, existing components while using them in a way that increases efficiency.
    i like it!

  • @simonpannett8810
    @simonpannett8810 Год назад +2

    With blocks to access the main Grid then mini and micro grids make a lot of sense that produce most of their own energy and only need small gains/losses to the main grid!

  • @bige8549
    @bige8549 Год назад +3

    Fantastic. I have been saying for a while that we need to combine renewable energy production technologies to increase utility. This is a perfect and brilliant example. Thanks for the good content as always.

  • @ecoworrier
    @ecoworrier Год назад +1

    I love the synergy of wind and PV. Night versus day, windy grey and bright still weather. And the Netherlands are often really windy, especially near the coast

  • @lollmaowow2968
    @lollmaowow2968 Год назад +10

    More lateral thinking for an improved design and functionality: Add railings by the side for a rainwater harvesting system as well + pump excess storage in the groundwater via a borewell.
    Add some pipes and cisterns to include the concept of rainwater harvesting to make the system better.
    Plus, cooling costs for your turbines can reduce if you make it flow through them before recharging the borewells beneath the buildings.

    • @timogronroos4642
      @timogronroos4642 Год назад

      the solar panels are not installed "water tight", so the collection of the water from the panels is not a viable solution. But the water is coming to the roof anyway, so it's possible to collect it with or without this system

  • @david-holmes
    @david-holmes Год назад

    Looks like a really good setup, thanks!

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +1

      Thanks David. I really appreciate your support :-)

  • @spidrespidre
    @spidrespidre Год назад +6

    I really like the idea of this, certainly from an efficiency standpoint. One question I'd have, though, would be how to prevent birds and bats from being injured or killed by moving parts

    • @toddberkely6791
      @toddberkely6791 Год назад +2

      since birds are killed by the overpressure of wind turbines, not by flying into them, its unlikely theyd be too dangerous.

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +1

      That is correct

    • @clarencegreen3071
      @clarencegreen3071 Год назад +1

      I read that "cats kill more birds than windmills." I don't know if that's a good thing about windmills or a bad thing about cats. However, I've never seen a cat kill a windmill.

  • @reinerhoffmann3764
    @reinerhoffmann3764 Год назад

    This time you did not talk so fast. That is very good for people, who understand English but not as their native language. Thank you for that..
    Greetings from North Franconia

  • @en2oh
    @en2oh Год назад +4

    but seriously, this is a very interesting adjunct on the journey to ultra high capacity PV panels! I think the idea of individualized community ownership will have significant political challenges. Where multiple people are dependent on a resource, collective governance becomes problematic in terms of upkeep, monitoring etc

  • @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475
    @onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Год назад +2

    Provides options for city dwellers to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Let's keep the Fossil Fuel Demons away from the permitting process THIS time.
    This is approaching symbiotic design, almost biological elegance.
    One thing i will note: if you have snowfall, you really do want your PV to be inclined to 60 degrees in winter. Snow tends to self-clear above that angle, but 2x as long for 30 degrees, and maybe not at all for less. Some articulation in the PV mount could help here, if only for the back row. This would increase venturi (can we say Bernoulli?) effect by introducing a high pressure zone at the rear and above the airflow. The air below at the turbine level will accelerate to meet that airflow and re- balance the pressure gradient. Of course, the whole system would need to be considered.
    I do like this approach though. Keep It Simple and Symbiotic: my personal engineering mantra of KISS.
    _Also, keep such well organized and clearly thought-out videos flowing our way, Sir!_ Much appreciated!

  • @matthewfe6671
    @matthewfe6671 Год назад +3

    Hope this works out well and can scale quickly to go on to more buildings. I had brief experience with some wind turbines on top of a building in Houston. Unfortunately one broke free and fell to the ground - luckily no one was hurt. Needless to say that was the end of that on the building!

  • @v.e.7236
    @v.e.7236 Год назад +1

    Now their thinking! Those vertical axis turbines seem like such a better design than the standard radial, tri-bladed units, so infamous for killing birds. Using the inherent aerodynamics of a building is another step in the right direction. Use that grey matter.

  • @22nikkoAA
    @22nikkoAA Год назад +3

    Would love to see them add a water collection system!

    • @janami-dharmam
      @janami-dharmam Год назад

      collecting water from where? thin air? But yes, solar powered desalination units are much needed for regular use. For agriculture, we need to haveathink...

    • @22nikkoAA
      @22nikkoAA Год назад

      @@janami-dharmam The flat, tilted surfaces of the solar panels naturally shed water - just add some collecting troughs [for rainfall] at the lower edges and send it to a tank.
      This would not be drinking water but could serve as 'gray water' and used to water plants or flush toilets.

  • @trout3212001
    @trout3212001 Год назад +1

    Great video. Incorporating so many ideas into the installation was awesome thinking.

  • @danjw1
    @danjw1 Год назад +4

    This seems like a wonderful idea and I hope for success for the company.
    As far as community owned power production, I strongly support the idea! I honestly think the best way forward is micro grids connected to the larger electrical grids. This sort of arrangement will prevent massive blackouts. Green energy production paired with storage is the path to this. It also will allow nearby micro grids to stabilize a micro grid that is experiencing high demand as well as the larger grid. A system like this allows for far greater grid stability across the board.

    • @waqasahmed939
      @waqasahmed939 Год назад

      In the UK, Octopus are rolling out what they call "fan clubs"
      If you've got a wind farm near you, then costs are reduced by up to 50% which is absolutely fantastic
      I'd absolutely love to have some form of wind turbine on my roof, in this form of infrastructure too. "Current" wind turbines don't seem worth it for domestic usage

  • @zapfanzapfan
    @zapfanzapfan Год назад +1

    The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind... Brilliant synergy of several uses.

  • @Equulai
    @Equulai Год назад +34

    Looks like a very good idea to utilize this usually useless space. Architectually valuable facilities like these could also be used in other places than rooftops where there is lots of open space to be covered and sunshaded, like parking lots, restaurant terraces and patios and so on. There's lots of potential in these facilities. Combine it with storage and we are a good long step further along the road to more sustainability and sustainable, local energy generation and usage.

    • @Energine1
      @Energine1 Год назад +1

      You really need the height to make a system like this viable.

    • @timogronroos4642
      @timogronroos4642 Год назад

      I think energy storage is not needed. Just sell the excess electricity to the grid and pay other costs for the community, like property tax.

    • @Equulai
      @Equulai Год назад

      @@timogronroos4642 Energy storage is very much needed for times when you generate way too much electricity, which would lead to throttling or shut down of your panels or wind turbines because the generation capacity exceeds the electricity need, and to store that excess energy for times when you don't generate enough to meet the demand, like nights, cloudy days, day without lots of wind, spike times, etc.

    • @Energine1
      @Energine1 Год назад

      @@timogronroos4642 Thats much less efficient and useful unfortunately. Power transmission and tranformation losses are real.

  • @fishyerik
    @fishyerik Год назад +1

    A lot of advantages, clever design, yes. Main problem is when bits and pieces of it starts coming loose and risk hitting people, people will want to have those things removed. One very severe problem with wind power is that sometimes the wind is much much stronger than normal, and any installation needs to withstand those times too, for decades. That's one of the reasons wind power generation converged into almost exclusively using huge Horizontal Axis Wind Turbines, AKA HAWTs. That's also one of the reasons to why rooftop solar panels are usually installed without much gap, despite that the fact that lower temperatures is advantageous is widely known.
    The power in wind increases with the cube of the increase of wind speed, that means, a doubling of wind speed wind means 8, yes EIGHT times increase in power. That means, a wind turbine needs to be able to withstand 8 times the force at 24 m/s compared to 12 m/s, and wind turbines needs to be designed to efficiently catch wind power. And 24 m/s is technically not even enough wind speed to be defined as storm. In this case they've addressed this issue with breaks on the generators, they say they generate power just up to 15 m/s, which is just 25% higher than the design speed of 12 m/s. That spares the turbines, but also makes the "wind speed window" where they can produce meaningful amount of power small.
    Urban areas doesn't just have worse average wind speeds, they have much lower capacity and availability factors. That means there will be meaningful output much smaller percentage of the time.
    Also, the solar panels, and the rest of the nest is still there catching wind in any wind speed. I haven't studied their design in detail, so I can't say at what windspeed those panels are likely to start to shatter, or just fall off, but I can tell one thing for sure, they won't have an acceptable level of long term safety AND come anywhere near the claimed LCOE in reality. As failure means solar panels and or heavy metal constructions, or parts of, falling from the top of buildings 5 or more stories tall, in densely populated areas, anything near 1% failure rate during their life expectancy can't be considered acceptable.
    Using the locally available resources as efficiently as possible is an attractive idea, but it isn't as advantageous as it might seem. This will never be able to compete from a purely practically perspective with having conventional roof top solar, combined with solar power plants and conventional wind power generation within a few hundred miles. For symbolic feel-good PR-stunts, great, until ONE of those installations starts to fall apart and fling parts of itself around in an urban environment.
    No amount of clever lateral thinking will make a solar and or wind power system relevant if wishful thinking says the system someday potentially can reach LCOE that is higher than that of solar and wind today, in reality.

  • @tommclean7410
    @tommclean7410 Год назад +7

    Neat deployment of technology for power production! Maximizing the utility of flat roofs in this way makes a lot of sense to me. I hope they have a snow removal feature for those solar panels in colder climates like here in Canada since it would be a heart stopping job to broom them off. Lastly, $0.08-0.12 per kWh seems high relative to typical wind power but I suppose the bonus is that it can be use on site, that is, without transmission costs.

  • @davestagner
    @davestagner Год назад +1

    Thinking like this will change the whole power system. This is a great design, and goes directly to the cost issues - both installation and aesthetics.

  • @robinherrick2177
    @robinherrick2177 Год назад +3

    3 kW per turbine seems low. It would be interesting to see how the ROI (including installation and maintenance costs) compares with a traditional MW-scale turbine on land or sea.

    • @agritech802
      @agritech802 Год назад +1

      Yes good point

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад +1

      Thank you! 😉

    • @tomcarr6416
      @tomcarr6416 Год назад

      The 3kW required a wind speed of about 26.8 mph (43.2 kph based on 12 mps). That seems pretty high. Is it reasonable?

  • @xandermarjoram8622
    @xandermarjoram8622 Год назад +2

    I'm normally a detractor of vertical-axis wind turbines, but this looks like a great use-case for them. The potential for community energy here is also very exciting! Great video again Dave.

  • @gabbyn978
    @gabbyn978 Год назад +3

    The first thing that I would add to the construction, would be robust - maybe even rigid - nets, with meshes narrow enough that no bird can get through. Else the birds would not only create droplings and nests up there, but also get caught in the blades which would cause a lot of havoc.

  • @jameswells2826
    @jameswells2826 Год назад +1

    I Really Enjoyed Today's Video So Much

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад

      Thanks James. Much appreciated :-)

    • @jameswells2826
      @jameswells2826 Год назад

      @@JustHaveaThink Your Welcome And I'm So Glad You Appreciate It

  • @venih5155
    @venih5155 Год назад +3

    That tech looks extremely promising for every building in our cities! Would also be great to make home installations in a similar way, where applicable.

  • @MegaSoarer
    @MegaSoarer Год назад +1

    that is smart solution to use the area of the roof, which is unused- to capture sun, the height of the building- to capture faster and less turbulent winds higher up. There are few more benefits- the solar panels make shade- fewer overheating hours on top floor; during winter, the same panels cover roof from clear night sky- less heat is lost in the form of thermal radiation to the outer space. I'm sure the structure is strong enough to withstand hurricane winds!

  • @thesilentone4024
    @thesilentone4024 Год назад +6

    Your thoughts on all cities using thirsty concrete in there roads to reduce flooding black ice and sand mining helping ecosystems and the people in the city.
    Also it will increase groundwater soil and aquifer levels.
    But we should line the sides of roads with native plants and trees to reduce heat flooding wind noise pollution and air and ground pollution co2 too.

    • @JWQweqOPDH
      @JWQweqOPDH Год назад

      They stop absorbing water as they fill up with sediment/particulates.

  • @shivamm8587
    @shivamm8587 Год назад

    I saw it a few months back. I could see the blades moving but it is so much more. Very exciting solution.

  • @sudeeptaghosh
    @sudeeptaghosh Год назад +3

    Underside cooling will also prolong the life of solar panels

  • @tomkelly8827
    @tomkelly8827 Год назад

    I love it. This is what we need for sure! Not too much shade from trees up there, also plenty of wind. It is good to hear that vibrations were no issue.
    I am off grid in Canada and I would love that sort of system scaled down for a house

  • @dremein
    @dremein Год назад +6

    Great idea. What happens when another high rise building is build next to/close to the building with the power nest? I would anticipate some adverse impact due to shadowing (either wind, sun or both) from the new building.

  • @bmoipavitra8468
    @bmoipavitra8468 Год назад

    Brilliant ideas. I had to watch it twice to make sure I hadn't missed the bit where you point out the downside of the concept.

  • @zatar123
    @zatar123 Год назад +3

    Time will tell. But this looks very promising and off to a good start.
    I would love to see this or something very similar absolutely every where that it makes sense to put them.

  • @Energy-Americas
    @Energy-Americas Год назад +1

    I believe that for this system to hit the stated cost-benefit ratio requires a climate that is mostly sunny and has substantial wind at night, and doesn;t have a high cooling load, which requires major roof space for a cooling tower. So, while it is definitely the best approach for certain places, it is not a panacea for everywhere. Installation crew must be specially trained, and the attachment to the building must be robust, because the wind on those louvers will apply a lot of variable torque to the attachments! the interior blades help start the turbines at low wind speeds. the curved Darrius blades are prone to vibrations and failure as they age, so adding a spiral pattern to them would improve long-term and quiet operation.- Carl Andrews, Energy Analyst

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад

      Carl, the stated maximum is 3kw per turbine. (That's 4Hp in Yank terms)
      The structure sure seemed stout enough to handle that kind of torque, but I'd be more interested in the uplift generated by the solar panels.
      At least the FEA suggests to me there's a lot more wind load from them than the turbines will ever create.

  • @CLechleitner42
    @CLechleitner42 Год назад +4

    #Wow that's the most promising approach to energy you've covered in a while.
    It can be added to existing buildings
    It doesn't depend on difficult-to-predict-but-currently-drying-out rain & snow (like most water power plants, especially the pumping-back ones).
    It doesn't have some of the disadvantages of legacy wind turbines that slows down their distribution through legal leverage for NIMBY neighbours.

  • @apoco_lips9957
    @apoco_lips9957 Год назад +2

    Wow that design seems so incredibly well thought out, leaps ahead of the US based company you mentioned towards the beginning of the video

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад +1

      I agree.

    • @clarencegreen3071
      @clarencegreen3071 Год назад

      Poke fun at the US if you must, but we have applied a similar distribution principle to transportation. Over here, almost everyone owns their own vehicle, and that alone has saved untold billions of dollars that would have been required for high-speed rail, trams, and such things. It works quite well, if I may say so.

    • @apoco_lips9957
      @apoco_lips9957 Год назад

      man your reply seems incredibly batshit crazy, did you reply to the wrong comment? Your reply makes no sense as a reply to the original comment

  • @anon6056
    @anon6056 Год назад +3

    Ahh i think this system is so beautiful. Maybe not aesthetically but very beautiful functionally. I think i'd heard of the term lateral thinking before but i didn't really absorb what it means but now i love the idea of it. Also yes i think community power grids will keep becoming more popular and i really hope melbourne opens up to more of these kinds of projects! I don't know of any/haven't seen or heard of anything beyond the occasional solar panels on roofs. I would be so happy if we bought a few of these and had them in the city. This is THE most amazing type of community power system i've seen 😄 and melbourne is often windy so it would be perfect. And i think the architechture is as pretty as you can make it for this power system but it does kind of draw my eyes right to it. Maybe it's not as eyecatching when you're walking around on the ground. But i still hope it is implemented in lots of places because the benefit of it is amazing and if any places are willing to sacrifice a little sky view from within the city the benefits are amazing and i have to love how lateral the whole design is

  • @anthonyxuereb792
    @anthonyxuereb792 Год назад +1

    Maybe the Dutch giant Philips might get involved, that surely would put some impetus into its appeal and acceptance. Mr DeBono was one of a panel of ten Intellectuals used by the British government as a think tank in times of crisis. I was number eleven so I never get a mention, not even a consolation prize.

  • @haraldlonn898
    @haraldlonn898 Год назад +8

    I love all this about making electricity in different ways. The only thing that bothers me is that all these conversions between DC and AC interfere a lot with the radio. As a radio amateur, I am very affected by all this conversion. Even LED lights are a nightmare.

    • @user-fs9mv8px1y
      @user-fs9mv8px1y Год назад +3

      Stuff like that needs to be heavily shielded to avoid EMI with radio

    • @markapplejohn4376
      @markapplejohn4376 Год назад +1

      As a supporter of radio, it appears that this is the prime time to invent a device that would counter the DC interference.

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад

      @@markapplejohn4376 "A device" that counters high current switching? (of things like rectifiers and PWM controllers)
      As 1 suggests, you can shield it, but you can't reasonably _eliminate_ it. It is inherent in the operation.
      So you either harvest wind and solar then invert it for use on the grid or you don't bother doing it at all.
      I think we have a pretty good understanding of how electricity works at this point.

    • @janami-dharmam
      @janami-dharmam Год назад

      Filters are the solution. We can receive the signal from a spacecraft beyond the solar system (few watts of transmitter power) - right? But putting a good antenna at a decent point is getting more and more difficult for regular folks.

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад

      @@janami-dharmam The U.S. can't even get filters on commercial aircraft so the mobile telecoms can proceed with their 5G rollout.
      In the '70's I used to bitch about the neighborhood kids on dirt bikes with CDI walking all over my rx
      The more times change, the more they stay the same....

  • @finbarryan3590
    @finbarryan3590 Год назад +1

    Is power nest subject to storm damage ?How does it handle heavy snow falls? What happens run off water from solar panels?

  • @annanelson6830
    @annanelson6830 Год назад +3

    Non-profit social services agency in Fairbanks, Alaska is planning a building. I would love to have robust renewable energy. Will this work in the arctic? How do you clean the solar panels? We get dust and some ash.

    • @jimurrata6785
      @jimurrata6785 Год назад +1

      The plan includes hardpoints for the window washing crew.
      If there is already a group of professionals there on the roof, cleaning panels seems trivial

  • @peterlabiak1051
    @peterlabiak1051 Год назад

    This is exactly what I have been writing on about here for years - synergistic, integrated, multi-tech solutions utilising already commercially existing technologies are the future. An Architect leading the way in this particular field is no surprise, especially a Dutch one :). As for the aesthetics there is so many different ways it can be designed within the operating parameters it will suit any building. Great stuff!

  • @geoffreykail9129
    @geoffreykail9129 Год назад +4

    RARE THING.................COMMON SENSE ENGINEERING BY COMBINING ALL ASPECTS OF THE STRUCTURE INTO IT'S DESIGN AND FUNCTIONALITY. 😄

  • @markapplejohn4376
    @markapplejohn4376 Год назад

    Simply put, this my most favourite channel on RUclips. Although I am not scientifically minded to any degree and spent my life in law-enforcement, I am extremely interested in the human condition and how science and very smart people will, hopefully, get us to a better and sustainable future. I do realize that there is a vast difference between theory and concept as opposed to practical reality but I love seeing these new and cutting edge inventions being both put to the test and eventually becoming reality to improve humanity. Yes, there's a ton of failure from the lab to production and practicable application but its fun to dream and see the possibility of great ideas!!

    • @JustHaveaThink
      @JustHaveaThink  Год назад

      Cheers Mark. I really appreciate your support :-)

  • @Lord.Kiltridge
    @Lord.Kiltridge Год назад +3

    Every time I bring up lateral thinking the conversation goes sideways.

  • @rh1960
    @rh1960 Год назад +1

    Excellent idea...Dr. Suma is a pure genius...

  • @DSAK55
    @DSAK55 Год назад +3

    Two blearing Red Flags: Vertical axis wind turbine and Architect.

  • @Seibertnr90
    @Seibertnr90 Год назад +1

    A pity that Strata SE1 tower in London failed with its 3 wind turbines on top. I hope this projects turns out to be more successful!