LeBron James or Michael Jordan: Nick and Cris discuss who is the real GOAT | FIRST THINGS FIRST
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- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2017
- In his conversation with Cris Carter and Jenna Wolfe, Nick Wright analyzes Michael Jordan and LeBron James in terms of who is the most clutch NBA player ever.
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Nick Wright and Jenna Wolfe team up on First Things First, a discussion and opinion-based studio program that covers all the headlines weekdays on FS1.
LeBron James or Michael Jordan: Nick and Cris discuss who is the real GOAT | FIRST THINGS FIRST
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Do you agree with Cris?
First Things First: Cris Carter and Nick Wright no
First Things First: Cris Carter and Nick Wright Yes period. Mr. Wright can you and Mr. Cowherd start the conversation of dividing the ALL TIME conversation to include categories like most championships, most accomplished, best player, so on and so forth. I truely believe in basketball there will never be a unanimous GOAT because everyone will be biased of hardcore stats. Example you could make the arguement that Larry Legend was THE best player of all time... Because he played in a league with athletically superior ball players but made them look simple. You could argue Jordan or Wilt or a lot of other players are THE GOAT. If I may lets ask this question in another way basically like Mr. Wright just did who plays the game better than anyone else. Now that is a debate that doesnt have to include stats so it includes people like Tim Duncan and John Stockton forgotten players who were juggernauts in their day at there position.
First Things First: Cris Carter and Nick Wright no not all lol
First Things First: Cris Carter and Nick Wright
How come no one brings up Micheal Jordan won DPOY and MVP the same year
You have to consider the teams in the Jordan era and the physical play. I go with MJ, one team.
Aliens did come Nick...and Mike beat them
Heel Jeezy in a poorly animated kids cartoon
Best comment ever! Take this W sir!
He set himself up for that one lmao
Heel Jeezy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Mike will make those Aliens have some mental issues on the way back.... cause he will desmantle them to death XD
Talk to me when LeBron can even come close to beating a team with Monstars with Daffy Duck running the point
Devyn Corvington that's a great comment 👏
Devyn Corvington very fair point
You’ll see it in 2019
Joseph Rizzotti Lebron about to go against real life monstars in their conference with Lonzo running point
jocriss I mean what excuse is there to use for a 5 Star team
The most pointless thing in life is debating MJ vs Lebron with Nick Wright
Cristian Morales , because he speaks facts and Jordansexuals hate it
LuckyLeo94 Let me put it this way for you.
How about this for your “he speaks facts”
Jordan’s career with the bulls:
•ages 21-34
•11 full seasons
•+2 seasons with 18&17 games respectively
•°13x playoffs appearances
•6 Finals appearances
•^6 Finals victories
•^6 Finals MVPs!
•^5 regular season MVPs
•^1 DPOY
•^3xSteals leader
•^10x scoring champ! (7 in a row!)
•12x all star, starter in all of them
•10x all NBA first team
•^9x All NBA Defensive first team
•5x he played a full season with at least 1other all star
•0x a season with 2 all-star teammates
•6 total all-star appearances for his teammates combined
>it should be noted Rodman could have been an all-star a couple times from 1995-98 but declined. That would put the total to 8 all-star appearances for his teammates.<
In game stats:
•^31.5ppg! / 5.4apg/ 6.3rpg/ ^2.5 spg/ ^0.9 Blocks /^50.5 FG%/^83.8 FT%
•Player Efficiency Rating of ^27.91! career (1st all time)
•Highest career single season PER ^31.7 in 1987-88 (3rd all time)
Note: PER isn’t perfect because it doesn’t incapsulate the entirety of defence that’s hard to do with numbers, but is a very good indication for a players efficiency. It factors in the equation offence+Block and steals
---------------------
Lebron’s career so far:
•ages 18-33 (soon to be 34)
•^15 full seasons +current season in progress
•°13x playoffs appearances (+1 presumably)
•^9 Finals appearances!
•3 Finals victories
•3 Finals MVPs
•4x regular season MVPs
•0x DPOY (runner up one year)
•0x steals leader
•1x scoring champ
•^14x all-star
•^12x all NBA first team
•5x All NBA Defensive first team
•^9x he played a full season with at least 1 other all-star
•^5x he played with 2 other all-stars
•^19 total all-star appearances for his teammates
In game stats:
•27.2 ppg/ ^7.2 apg/^7.4 rpg/ 1.6spg/ 0.8 Blocks pg/ 50.4 FG%/ 73.9 FT%
•Player Efficiency Rating of 27.65 career (2nd all time)
•Highest career single season PER 31.67 in 2008-09 (4th all time)
*For the people who think Lebron is ‘way more efficient’ than Jordan, the facts disagree.
*Legend*: | “ ^ “ is for better stat between the two | “ ° “ is for a tie | “ ! “ Is for an NBA record | “+” for addition |
Conclusion: Jordan is clearly the better player.
The most pointless thing in life is debating that period.
LuckyLeo94 LeBron sure is good at losing in the finals... and going to 7 games... and finding excuses... and players got it easy now
@@rice909 there all fake facts watch videos on it
LOL! First there was Kobe, then Lebron. I swear, after lebron retires the next face of the NBA will be compared to MJ and MJ will still be the highest standard of basketball
tru
All these commenters r mad about his OPINION but aren't stating ANY facts
U gotta go Cuh Do you really want to
compare the accolades? Lmfao Jordan beats him everywhere
Benjamin Franklin We're talking best BASKETBALL PLAYER if it was most accomplished it's Bill Russell and most accolades is Kareem so
U gotta go Cuh and most talented is wilt, and most unstopabble is shaq so? You take every thing into consideration, and thats why 3-5 matters and it matter a lot
gerardgag most talented isn't wilt but ok
U gotta go Cuh who is more talented than wilt? Please dont say lebron
lebron is 4-6 right now at age 32. Jordan at age 32 led the bulls to 72-10 record, MVP OF THE SEASON AND FINALS, led the league in scoring and was first team all defense and offense.
izRashad there were no warriors back then, if we give him those that’s six
@@mistaincredible2573 Jordan and the Bulls was the GSW that time
Against what competition? Y'all give finals records TOO much credit. That's the problem.
Bron never played in such a watered-down, borderline talentless 90s.
hey buddy only one of em left vegas with more money than they landed at age 39 (jff)
"What's a game 7?"
MJ
Tony Montana “what is the losing in the 1st round” round MJ
@@kevingraddy4799 6-6 no game 7s > greater than losing in tbe first round. Smh
@@kevingraddy4799 "what is not getting to the playoff"
Tony Montana “what’s a first round sweep?” -LBJ
@@mrseanmac727 6-6 > 1st rd loss 3-6 good bye
Been a bron fan for nearly 13 years and I will always think losing in 2011 helped LeBron more than it would've helped him. His overall game skyrocketed on a maturity level post 2011, call me crazy but if LeBron wouldve won against Dallas he would be stuck at 2 rings today. Miami would've gone on to beat OKC for the repeat but no chance that LeBron goes on to win in 2013 or 2016 imho.
I miss this duo - excellent civil and calm sports discussion.
What happened to them? Did they get fired?
@@piersondoyle1304 Chris Carter had a falling out with the boss
@@piersondoyle1304 Hahaha good question. We know anyone who disagree with Jordan being goat needs to leave.
@@Kyng704 great analysis
Hes easily had the longest prime of all time kobe last years were garbage and i doubt it will end that way for bron
Age doesn't end/shorten careers, wear and tear does.
No handchecking, "playoff fouls", fewer hard falls from dudes trying to draw charging call on him, getting to take games off to rest, having 2 other teammates capable of putting up 25-30 on any given night and getting to coast to the Finals for 7 years straight.
Greatness didn't prolong his career, THE LEAGUE did.
Asmr D-vine 1 all i know is Kobe 17th season he avg 27-6-6 46%. Kobe Achilles actually stopped him. All this overrated would been put to rest if he never got injured. Would been playing for endless years just like LeBron.
Ballin Too rightt i would pick kobe over lebron anyday
Sid Jones Wrong, Lebron is taking amazing care of his body and that is why his prime so long. Derrick Rose's body collapse on him because he didn't do what Lebron did.
Made inMEX That still doesn't negate the impact of less mileage on his body. There are ppl who work out religiously who get diabetes or keel over from a heart attack.
Derrick Rose put an unnatural/unhealthy amount of torque on his legs with the way he moved.
Add that to the wear and tear of having to carry a team, working for EVERY bucket, getting fouled, landing improperly and the reduced rest time between games of the strike season and you get a recipe for disaster.
Even he said after all the rehabs and retraining his body that his game had to change.
Nick was right jordan is just a scorer but lebron is an all around monster period.
Jordan was more than just a scorer. You and Nick Wright don't know what you're talking about
@@cowboys4ever348 You don't know what you're talking about.
Evidently you didn't see MJ PLAY
HE WAS AN ALL DEFENSIVE PLAYER HE WAS A STEAKS LEADER HE WOULD GET THE WIN AT ALK COST WATCH THE CLIPS MICHEAL AKSO MADE HUGE BLOCKS YOU EVIDENTLY NEVER SAW MJ PLAY
Jordan is the ultimate basketball player ever. His a winner
182-228 in 5 years he played without pippen
@@goldda_icon8559 yup and with a great supporting cast they won 3 in a row. Pippen is replaceable, Jordan is not.
Just not a better winner than Russell Hondo kareem and Lebron. Check overall playoff resume and wins buddy
I just love watching people trying to talk themselves into believing that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest ever. It's so cute.
This didn’t age well
Well LEBRON is the goat
@@teamwrld965 well he quit on his team
@@fredrickjohnson7711 not really
@@teamwrld965 lol did you watch the series against the sun's he absolutely did
Nick Wright said Michael score more but less effiecient. Yea off by 3% lol. Jordan scored more, had more steals,more blks. We really comparing a 6'9 sf/pf rebounds to a sg?
Ryan Bury not a SG statistic. And one stat doesnt out weigh everything else. Scottie Pippen was the point forward.
You know what makes jordan the GOAT he wanted to win he wasn’t chasing stats he was chasing greatness.
Bottom line 6 rings
He was literally stat padding lol
@@boyzaya15ya I know LeBron was stat padding
I’m 20 years old and I know MJ is above LeBron. You can throw stats at me all you want, but MJ did more in less time, in the most physical era of basketball.
MJ led the league in scoring, AND was first team all defensive, WHILE winning championships. That’s nuts. He did that for his entire career basically.
LeBron on the other hand is a brute force player, with little grace and silk. He’s still amazing to watch, but doesn’t have that silky smooth look that MJ had.
To top MJ, You’d have to replicate MJ’s silky smooth body movements, and a killer instinct like no other, added together with a psychopathic mindset to win. Also, you need to perfectly combine athleticism with fundamentals like MJ did. LeBron has some of these characteristics, but is severely beneath MJ in them. Like not even close.
The intangibles ALONE give MJ the huge edge. Stats are in favor for LeBron yes, but as a player, MJ covers everything better than LeBron.
Product of Crew 2 different era's
You're a very intelligent 20-year-old.
Im 40 and it's nice to see that not all 20 year olds are braindead and realize that Jordan is better than Lebron. Period, idc if Lebron wins 5 more rings. He wouldn't have been able to do what Jordan did in a tougher era where hand checking was allowed, (huge advantage for the defender) If u put Lebron on those Bulls teams in place of Jordan in the 80's and 90's i honestly don't think those same Bulls teams would've gotten 1 ring, and I'm an open minded person who isn't biased just cuz im 40 and grew up watching Jordan and was a huge Bulls fan. Its just a fact, I've watched both of their careers and Jordan is easily better reguardless of what Lebron does with the rest of his career. Jordan wanted to conquer his opponents not team up with them. Jordan changed the game, Lebron changes teams. Anyhow congrats to u for being alot brighter than most other 20 year olds. Its nice to come across comments from people like yourself. Lets me know than not every youngster is dumb enough to think Lebron is better than MJ. Im sure im telling u things u already know. Just the comment u posted tells me ur smart. I'll stop typing, lol.
@@yeetfeet1635 Bulls team won 72 games.....and a ring. why wouldn't they beat the Warriors.....who's athletic? Curry, Klay....they're not more athletic? No
Funny how you said "intangibles alone are in favour of lebron" and "stats are in favour of lebron".... This is my problem with that.... At the very nature of intangibles is subjectivity so what you're doing is trying to be objective about something that is subjective. Stats on the other hand are very much objective... They are records of what actually happened... Here's my take the only significant thing that Jordan has over lebron objectively is finals wins..... Do you realize that if we can choose which 18 games lebron wins instead of loses then he's 9-0 in the finals and this lebron vs Jordan debate makes no sense any more... Think about that just 18 games out of a career 1000+ kills this debate
BTW... The argument about the physicality difference in the two eras doesn't hold water because embedded within human DNA is the ability to adapt to stimuli. There is no scientific reason to believe that players today wouldn't be tougher if they played 25 years ago
Nick speaks facts and smh people just say hes a bad analyst
he twists statistics and uses only the convenient facts to his argument.
Nick gon nut hug Lequeen but we know who the GOAT IS!
I hate this whole MJ - Lebron comparison. They played with different teams against different teams at a different time. MJ had the more sensational career in his prime and definitely the more impressive trophy collection. Lebron is probably the most complete player that has ever played Basketball (scoring, passing, blocking, rebounding, stealing, clutch, athleticism, impact on teammates). But in my opinion the most impressive thing about Lebron is his constancy, his permanent improvement, his way of dealing with all the pressure and his never lost love for the sport of Basketball. I Sadly was too young to see MJ playing live. But It's one of my goals to see Lebron playing live one day!
Shocktraderz U can’t say lebron is the most complete player if u haven’t even watched Jordan play
I completely agree with your statement. We shouldn't compare but that's what us humans do lol. The more accomplished career is MJ, the better basketball player is Lebron.
@@lebron2535 mj is the better basketball player because hes more accomplished tho smfh 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Then if you never saw MJ you have no audacity to share your opinion. NBA in the days of MJ was more physical, rough and tough. There was too much science interms of equipment.
“I think the thing you’re most proud of when playing is how long you were in your prime”
No Cris it’s winning
That's right. Only a player who didn't win would say that. Still a great thing to achieve and longevity matters. But Per Game and Accomplishments matter more
so then Russell is greater then Jordan because 11>6. see how it's not just winning. b ball is a team game
If thats the case, then bill Russell is the best, correct?
@@bobbyd1632 youve never played a sport
@@sunnywestside4210 haha sure man
Nick was talking about someone playing for the fate of humanity and he said he'd pick LeBron? This guy is crazy. LeBron would pass the ball to his non-existent teammate and we'd all be doomed! Real talk.
stealth1234567 - TOTALLY AGREE
stealth1234567 I'd like to see Jordan go against the warriors of today to see how he do
truthseeker89 for life I want to see LBJ against bad boys Pistons and the physical game of the 90s
truthseeker89 for life One of the following is definitely true: 1. You didn't read my comment before replying. 2. You read my comment, didn't understand it but replied anyway. 3. You meant to reply to a different comment but mistakenly replied to this one.
truthseeker89 for life bro are u dyslexic
Cris is right
LeBron is amazing and I think he's number 2 all time.
But MJ is just better
Finn Dunne Leavy Nope
Bird is better
@@averyweber9416 Wilt and Kareem are better than Lebron also.
lebron is top6-10
Tom Green thinks Longevity makes you the GOAT?...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Also the quality of that longevity which is freakishly high.
@@reefmint In terms of 'quality' which is better 3-6 or 6-0? When does quantity trump quality?....when the participation trophy mentality kicks in. 6-0 with 6 finals MVPs in 15 years is better quality than 3-6 in 16 years isn't it? LOL We won't get into INDIVIDUAL awards...that would be kicking a kid while they're down. LeBron is great, but has missed his chance at being the GOAT, he will probably get the GOAT participation trophy though. Only the participation trophy crowd would think a guy that's afraid to take it to the hoop with the game on the line for fear of missing free throws and losing the game is anybody's GOAT.
Lol
@@sensiblyhonest695 lebron is more better at basketball than mj, the bulls won 6 finals, not mj alone, the bulls
@@Mt554. LeBron is a great player, but he can only PRETEND to be "more better" at basketball. Nobody wins titles alone.
Other than the rings, ALL THIS IS INDIVIDUAL ACCOLADES so your LAME "didn't do it alone" EXCUSE doesn't have anything to do with this:
After 17 years in the league another MVP would tie LeBron with what Jordan got in 15 years. Maybe if we give LeBron 10 more years He'll get 2 more rings and 2 more Finals MVPs...4 more All Defensive 1st team awards... 3 more All Defensive teams.... his FIRST Defensive Player of the year award...his FIRST 3 NBA steals leader awards...9 more NBA scoring leader awards...LOL.... WHO ARE WE KIDDING?? That's NOT gonna happen, but LeBron would have to do that JUST TO MATCH what Jordan did in 15 years.
Keep pretending.
Rings dont make u better
And choking doesn't make you better
No, but being the main reason for winning them does, LeBron could never do what Jordan has done.
@@JonJon-wf5yj was he the main reason though? All he lead the team in is points, pippen lead in everything else plus pippen scored
If he keeps losing in the finals..it won't matter if he is first in assist and points.
juanio its not up to you its up to the masses .LeBron da goat
mj bulls would not even make the finals in today's NBA
+Jay Kim
True. MJ would probably be a John Wall on the Wizards today.
At least lebron didnt lose in the first round
Jordan would to if he faced the warriors so tf
No one ever gave Jordan a ring , Wade and Kyrie gave lebron his rings 👊
Vendetta 2019 How did they do that when those rings Bron got finals MVP?
Vendetta 2019 let’s not forget that every single time lebron is in a finals game, he is the best player in that game so what if someone makes the game winning shot, lebron is still a better player than them for 59 minutes of the game. Correction, LeBron gave wade and kyrie championships
Vendetta 2019 what are u talking about without Scottie Jordan didn't even make the finals lmao 1-9 without Scottie
i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/32/c4/b232c4a67e2961003e6e4d7e296c120c.jpg
ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/9FAAAOxy4RpRzARs/s-l640.jpg
john paxson gave him one lmao steve kerr, and scottie
One of the most civil arguments for this subject i ever seen
4:55 but would LeBron have as many finals appearances if he had to go through the teams Jordan did in the East?
Would jordan have as many ring if he faced the warriors 4 times?
Probably alot of those teams in the east weren't great and with illegal defensive back when jordan played bron could have isolated smaller guards for easy buckets
You don’t realize that MJs competition in the East wasn’t that good and it’s probably equal lol
@@djnene3832 true. Think about this. When Jordan was injured for like 60games his team went 30-52 and they still made the playoffs. When the Detroit piston got old the east got bad. And guess what. When the pistons were still good Jordan couldn't make it past the 1rst or second round
Nick is so obsessed with LeBron to the point that he's delusional at times loll.
You say that but literally every single point he makes for the argument that Lebron is the GOAT are objective facts. Nothing biased, it's literally just numbers and facts.
The most delusional thing I've heard him say about Lebron is that he thought the Cavs would win the 2017 finals against the warriors and he was sure about that. That was stupid
Everything he said was facts tho. Jordan is the most overrated player ever. Not cause he's not great but his fans are delusional
Fact is, you and Nick probably aren't old enough to have seen Jordan play. All you see is youtube, so you don't really understand the scope of how good he really was. Chris Carter on the other hand has seen both, so has the insight to compare both players. There's more to the game then just the numbers.
Ryan Allyn I have debunked Nick's points before. Nick doesn't present any "facts", he just cherrypicks data. If you respond and are interested, I'll literally counter all of Nick's points.
Angel Tirado how do you "debunk" him having more rebounds, assists, higher FG percentage and literally more than everything in the playoffs? Those aren't opinions, those are simply how the numbers stack up.
when aliens came to the earth michael jordan won for the fate of humanity and the cartoon world. jordan is better then lebron, if aliens came for a second time, and i had to pick between lebron and jordan for the fate of humanity, id still pick jordan, jordan doesnt lose big games, lebron does. those are the facts.
Android Kelley it’s a team sport
Anthony Castelucci make it a free throw shooting contest Jordan versus lebron
Android Kelley incorrect! Jordan was getting first round playoff Losses !!! Knocked off !!!
ya as a young rookie facing teams like the Celtics with Bird Parish and Michael
This isn't fairy tale. You don't get 2 rings for 1. Yall see how the media is trying to give labron an edge
it should be half a ring.. a LOT had to go his way for him to get that ring..
Daniel Beavers it’s funny that people are dumb enough to think accomplishments make you a better player. Really proves how most basketball fans don’t really understand the sport at a high level.
Meme Republic exactly lol “mike is 6-0” lol Lebron is the best basketball player ever he literally does everything .
Colonel Gibbs if lebron is drafted to the west he has 3 finals appearances. When he made it in 2018 by himself he faced pitiful opponents.
Meme Republic ong
MJ is a 10x scoring champ, 3x steal champ, and a dpoy. Lebron has only led the league in scoring once and has never
led the league in any defensive category nor has he won a dpoy. How do they not mention that? Nor do they mention MJ's 88-89 season, huge factors in this argument.
Nick wright is crazy someone get him married to LeBron
I mean, he's giving us only facts. Nothing crazy about that
MistahUnknown yeah but this sheep will deny what's right in front of him. all these Jordan fans are sheep
Isaiah Iverson wait so are u telling me lebron coming back from 3-1 against the greatest team of all time is not better than EVERY ring Jordan has against all the old WAY past prime player that he played in the finals lmao
Isaiah Iverson oh are u talking about the 57-25 mavs where durk was still playing very well. Oh and also the great Spurs that went 62-20 that season and the same team that had one of the greatest defenses and still does today. Lmao u really should do some research before just saying things lmao
Isaiah Iverson wait is this a serious comment ? Lmao I'm sleepppppp
Ok let’s rebut all of Nick’s points and arguments:
Nick’s argument is that Jordan is “a better player overall”. When we ask who is the best we usually include accomplishments, that’s pretty convenient for Nick to not mention accomplishments which is half of a players Legacy the other half being stats. He even admits he doesn’t have the accomplishments part so he goes straight to stats. If we’re going off stats then LeBron isn’t even the greatest, it’s Wilt. I know what you’re going to say now. “Wilt played in a weak era” If you are one to believe that I encourage everyone to read the bleacher report argument on why what Wilt was able to to do what he was able to do.
“LeBron is a better rebounder”
Michael Jordan averages more offensive rebounds than LeBron and let’s not forget LeBron plays the forward position and Jordan plays the shooting guard, the game is designed for forwards to grab more rebounds so for LeBron to only average 1 measly rebound than Jordan says something but don’t forget that Jordan averages more Offensive rebounds which truly show who can grab boards better than getting defensive boards where half the players are just trying to get back on defense.
“LeBron has a higher fg percentage and is more efficient than Jordan”
Ok so Michael Jordan’s career fg% is 49.7 and LeBron’s is 50.2. Note that Nick said Jordan only scores more because he takes more shots but this argument goes against nick because Jordan shoots 3 more attempts than LeBron and they still have about the field goal percentage. Jordan is clearly the more efficient shooter and also note LeBron’s fg percentage is misleading because he takes a lot of shots in the paint. Definitely more than Jordan did.
“LeBron has more assists”
LeBron has the ball the majority of the time in his hands and gets the advantage of running the guard unlike Jordan. It’s not impressive to average only 2 measly assists more than a guy who doesn’t play The guard and lets remember Jordan played point guard in a 10 game stretch and averaged a triple double so make your own judgement.
“We can pretend he didn’t come back and didn’t lose to Magic “Badly”
One would make the argument that if you go 7 games with someone and you lose, you for sure didn’t lose badly” Also Scotty was out game 7.
“LeBron’s a better 3 point shooter”
He has a 2 and a half percentage advantage over Jordan in an NBA where the 3 is glorified now. It’s safe to say if Jordan played in this era his 3 point % would be higher due to the emphasis on 3 point shooting in this era.
“LeBron is as clutch as Mj”
Ok so Nick used a narrow stat in the final 5 seconds the stat I have right here that I got from The Jump broadens the clutch postseason stat. In a game tying go ahead shots in the 4th quarter of playoffs in the final 24 seconds Jordan is 9-18 and LeBron is 8-23. And I get e were talking about playoffs but we can’t not count regular season games and by 2016 LeBron shot 5-47 with the last 5 seconds in the regular season. I know this stat is a bit older but It didn’t get much better. By the way the data they had for Mj was his last two seasons in Washington where he shot 6-14
So Nick is completely wrong about this subject and he said “better basketball player” So let’s look at the other facets of the game Jordan is better in. Footwork, post scoring, perimeter defending, stealing, mid range.
Jordan had more stamina too he didn't gas out
While I agree with most of what you said there's a few things that should be mentioned; 1). Just because Lebron drove to the basket more often than taking mid range shots, doesn't dismiss he's stats for those shots. You can debate who the better shooter is but Lebron takes it when comparing who's better in the paint. Even skip bayless will admit this, that no one ever compares to Lebron with this point.
2). When talking about MJ losing to Magic, they lost in 6 games not 7 but was also the year MJ had just come back from the first retirement, however if Lebron fans wanted to hurt MJ's legacy, they wouldn't so much talk about this series but rather it took MJ almost 10 years to just make the playoffs.
3). Lebron not only has more assists but is DEFINITELY the better passer, he's vision and court IQ is far superior to MJs, the position they play may come into consideration, however you can't base how well MJ would have been off just 10 games, that's absurd. MJ was never a passer first mentality guy and would always force himself to take over games and lead the team, rather than focusing on the other guys around him and then doing what needed to be done himself.
4). Lebron IS a better 3PT shooter for one the 3 point line is further away when compared to MJ, although they didn't shoot it as much as modern era NBA, the fact that it was closer and MJ still doesn't have either more 3 Pts or higher % definitely doesn't help him
Otherwise everything else you said I agree with and is pretty fair. People need to settle this debate though, Lebron is the best PLAYER of all time, MJ is the best SCORER of all time. They play totally different but Lebron not only is more talented and athletic, but better overall, while nobody could score or take over games like MJ :)
Clarkyowns You OK so Lebron is a better 3 point shooter and passer but thats it, Jordan gets every other category: Shooting/scoring, defense, rebounding, clutch shooting, mid range, footwork and post scoring. The checklist favors Jordan so clearly Jordan is the better player. As far as who drives better, thats more of the eye test and just BG watching Mjs hangtime and acrobatic moves and sometimes just straight dunking on guys, I give that to Jordan. Not to mention Lebrons 6'7 250 lbs, I'd hope he could drive to the paint easy.
Well no, Jordan does have those qualities but that all comes under scoring, but that doesn't mean MJ gets "every other category", that's not a realistic checklist. MJ is the best scorer of all time, no doubt, but there's way more things that make Lebron the better PLAYER.
First off although MJ takes the scoring point, Lebron has a higher FG%, Jordan currently has 3154 more total points but has taken an extra 3501 shots than Lebron. So some simple math can tell you that Lebron is the better shooter.
Lebron can easily both play and guard all 5 positions, MJ cannot. That's not even debatable.
Lebron clearly has the higher court and ball IQ, hence the better handle and dribble, better passing and more assists (almost 2000 more btw)
Lebron literally has over 1100 more rebounds than MJ, which are almost all DEFENSIVE so, yeah. LBJ gets that point easily.
Jordan is not even close to being more athletic, like its absolute blasphemy you even think they're close. Name another 6'7 250lbs guy that has the same speed, strength, durability and stamina as Lebron. The guy has been to the finals for the last 7 times in a row, MJ got tired after 3. MJ had some nice dunks, but doesn't mean he's athletic, let alone MORE athletic. Lebron is in his 15th season and is still playing 40+ mins per game, and is STILL in his prime! Also the fact he's never had even a minor injury he's entire career, that's basically inhuman for what he does every single game and season.
Again MJ is the best scorer, Lebron is the best player. LBJ can play all 5 positions, is the better shooter, passer, rebounder, 3 PT shooter, more talented and athletic. MJ is a scorer and thats it, the best of all time but still, the real checklist favours Lebron and he proves that every night. Hardly a debate here
@clarkowns You If basketball were played as an individual sport, then you might be correct (that LBJ is the best player), but you're wrong. There are a lot of variables that come into play. The top two that you seem to ignore are 1) The era in which they played and 2) their teammates. I'd like to focus specifically on #2. MJ didn't play musical chairs running to this team to play with those people, then abandon those people, and run back to what he thought was a better situation. Part of being a better player is being a better competitor. After all, why didn't Jordan go join the Bad Boy Pistons, or the Magic after they beat him?
LBJ isn't the best player because not only does he NOT win the quantitative argument, he doesn't have as many accomplishments, and he loses the qualitatively because he just runs around chasing rings. Who is he going to run to at the end of this season just to go lose to the Warriors again? IF he joins the Warriors for the league minimum, and they win the next 4 championships, would you consider him the greatest ever?
nick always argues "would jordan win if he would have faced the warriors"... question is, would lebron even have gone to the eastern conference finals if he had played with the bad boys?
LeBron outweighs the biggest "Bad Boy" by up to 30 pounds of solid muscle but moves with exponentially more speed and thrust. If LeBron played with the "Bad Boys", the Bulls would have gotten smacked around for another few years.
Joseph Angelo Cervantes Mike played in a weak East. Lebron has never gotten to the playoffs with less then 42 wins. Mike did it 3 times.
@@MistahUnknown LeBron would have done nothing in the 80's-90's NBA due to how hard the game was played, fouls had to be beyond egregious to be called back then, now days you breath on someone it's a foul. Getting beat up game after game, knocked around trying to shoot, he would make it. Lebron is great in the current NBA and that's it.
Wako Blank you’re stupid
Lebron played in the weak East
No one ever seems to mention LeBron's two bronze medals in the 2004 olympics and the 2006 World championships. They were teams with Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Tim Duncan, Chris Paul and yet Lebron still couldn't get better than 3rd place, twice!
Jordan was 2 for 2 in olympics with Gold medals including in 1984 when he was playing with college players, not NBA players.
jxn23 Olympics lol they won 08 and 12 doesn't matter
Ancient _217 not after taking an L. Lmao
He barely got minutes in those 2004 olympics he was only like 18 bro wtf kind
it was rookie lebron in 04 and he didn’t even play that team was straight garbage anyway
Melo has 4 gold medals, whats that honestly prove? So melo is twice as good as MJ?...
LeBron can get smoked by Jason Terry in the Finals again and Nick would still say “This validates LeBron as the best player even more than ever before!!”
D J JASON TERRY 😭😭😭
Jason terry top 3 point shooter of all time
What are you talking about? He always says Lebron was the biggest reason they lost that finals
False, he's never said that and never will.
D J Jason terry it was JJ BAREA
People hate Nick.. because he’s Wright
MarLonLon hes an idiot
"hes an idiot" but can't give any reason why, any facts why, disprove claims he's made. Makes sense.
MJ is 1, LeBron is 2
That’s it, no more debates. LeBron has proven nobody besides Jordan can be put above him
Zach Falbe you’re completely right dude. Like no matter who you pick as the goat, we should all at least say lebron is 2 at least.
@@nedswrld Wilt is no 2, then hakeem , Tim Duncan then there's five other guys before Lebron.
Wrights 1st pick gonna give up in the 3rd after quarter when they're losing to team jordan
To me, This is what defines the greatest player of all time: The player who shows up the greatest in the biggest moments, who can put the team on his back and come up clutch in close games. If it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals and you're down by 2 points with 5 seconds left on the clock whos hands do you want the ball in? Clearly, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. That is what defines greatness to me. Lebron not only in a non-factor in the closing minutes of close games but I would even say he's a liability. The bottomline is, The closest player t Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in the NBA today is Kyrie Irving. Irving can put the team on his back and show up clutch and did in in the finals against the GSW's.
Menelik Watson Lebron will give me great production for the first 3 quarters but when it's crunch time in tight game in the 4th quarter I'll take prime Bird to be mr.clutch for me over bron 😂😂😂
Ry Guy, How about Lebron going 10-30. LMFAO
How about the 2011 finals.
7:25 Lebron lost DPOTY to a guy who didn't even make All Defensive First Team that year. The NBA hates Lebron for being politically active.
Society hates Lebron because his politics are trash.
@@thrillhovanhouten253 What part of Lebron's politics are trash, is it the one that supports freedom of expression or the one that goes against injustice and racism?
LOL
@@VelhaGuardaTricolor LOL You’re so clever.
Hardly anyone is pro-racism. The Democratic Party has been letting down the African American community for centuries. Setting that aside, somehow, he was also wrong about:
hands up don’t shoot.
Supporting Hillary.
Calling himself the greatest.
Leaving his team 3 times to chase rings.
Not being honest about his “free” school.
I could go on, but I’d rather watch paint dry.
@@thrillhovanhouten253 bullseye.
@@bartphilips2222 Anytime, buddy.
Lebron was outscored in the NBA finals by Jason Terry and got beat by a lesser team in the Mavericks. He also got destroyed by the Spurs. He just got swept in the finals by the Warriors. Do I really even need to say more?
There’s been a lot of noise lately about LeBron perhaps passing Jordan as the G.O.A.T. There’s no doubt that LeBron is all-time great - in my opinion, there’s a solid argument that he might land at #2 on that list. But when the numbers are laid down, sorry kids...it ain’t close. From a post on KSR:
Jordan vs LeBron
Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984-85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987-88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984-85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987-88), NBA MVP (1987-88, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1995-96, 1997-98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986-87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…
Remind me again...who is the GOAT?
Lebron the goat
LeBron James
Lebron is.. Jordan played against way weaker competition
dadillonful lebron is better but the competition wasn’t easier
Were talking who is better not who has more championships. Lebron was also the first player to average triple doubles in every game of the nba 2017 finals... he did that versus a team that was created to win versus lebron i mean come on durant,curry,klay,green,iguodala. He also made it to the finals in 2018 alone and he was averaging 34 pts 10 assists 8 rebounds and the second best player in his team? Kevin love 17 pts 4 assists 7 rebounds. While he played versus Giannis Antetokounmpo, brook looez, Eric Bledsoe and Khris Middleton. Like come on... when scottie pippen didn’t played with mj, mj lost. Lebron has more points,rebounds,assists,blocks,triple doubles and he did that in harder competition. In mj era the would guard 1on1, now they have 3 big men waiting in the paint. Its harder now the mj era. Like come on how mj the goat and scored 5 points in the three point contest, did u know that? And thats your goat? Just come on lebron is the king/goat. You saw the video that didnt shut u up then here am I...
Michael Jordan didn't play the game for stats. Jordan played to win, period!!!
W lebron is very self conscious about his stats cuz he knows he will b in the conversation of the G.O.A.T.
Shuey Stimler and u won't get a debate about that from me. We never considered Jordan being the goat because of stats. These analyst draw us into this. There was always better shooters are defenders than Mike. All we knew was that he was the best player, and no matter who he was against he wasn't losing when it mattered most...
Tyronne Hayes if it's cuz of who padded their stats the best than Wilt is the goat and Westbrook was the best player in the league last regular season cuz he averaged a triple double.... Lebron fanboy logic
Yeap, So did Bill Russell. He played for wins too.
therealist811 that's my whole point. It was only about winning. When there was a quote unquote superstar on the floor against him, that was his way of showing who's the best. Total annihilation. He came into the league with the mindset of whoever was the best he's dethroning them. That's what made him the goat.
Jordan didnt win any bronze medals when he competed in the olympics.
"Jordan" is not the name of an Olympic team
Truth
Nick Wright: "Aliens come down to earth…"
They did do that. It's called Space Jam. And they lost to the 🐐 Michael Jordan
Same thing I thought
And they’re about to lose to LeBron too
5 years ago and LeBron is still doing it. The GOAT walks and talks
When JJ barea posted up LeBron in the 2011 finals the goat argument was laid to rest forever...if aliens had to pick a hooper they would pick Jordan didn't he see space jam?
the goat argument got laid to rest when lebron made The Block in 2016. Jordan, or any other human being, could not have made that play
Tempo HD L weak
Tempo HD lol you’re telling me no one but Lebron can chase down block someone?
Musty check this distance he covered and his timing. Only the greek freak probably. Size speed and length are the factors we are taking into account here
Chris Santiago no they would pick lbj becuse it was the bad aliens that picked to loose haha mj is a winner y would the bad alien pick to play the best.
Michael Jordan never choked in 4 straight 4 quarters in the finals. And got out played by JJ barea and Jason terry
Malik Dawson Michael Jordan choked in the 95 playoffs against Orlando 🤷🏽♂️ turned the ball over in a crucial moment in that series and was scared to shoot
Jayylen 24 I clearly said finals didn't I.
Malik Dawson he didn't get outplayed by either of those guys, just because they won doesn't mean they had a better series
@Scott Lebron completely choked. He didn't play well.
where are barea and terry in relation to their careers with LeBron?
Jordan the best 2 way player ever
Joe- Joel one of
Joelis Present i would like to inform u about a pretty cool guy named kawhi Leonard.
Nick triggers my migraine every time he talks.
Artifice 312 straight facts tho
ASG Saucy he talks straight facts tho
Me too hahaha
Lebron 3 rings 4 mvps 3 finals mvps 6 all defensive 14 all NBA 1 scoring champion Michael Jordan 6 rings 5 mvps 6 finals mvps 1 defensive player of the year 10 all defensive 10 scoring champion 3 steals leader 12 all NBA ( MJ RETIRED 3 TIMES MJ ACHIEVED ALL IN 13 years THE BULLS) this is facts right? Who’s better?
Because he's affecting your biased agenda
Nick wright Must be on LeBron's Payroll 💸
Venosis he must get paid well
Venosis
Nick Wright might just like LeBron James as a player did you think of that
Vinny no he's just knows real basketball and isn't blind by the Jordan fanboys who can't come to terms that lebron is the greatest player of all time
6-0 vs 3-5
Lebron is the greatest talent to ever play.
Jordan is the greatest player.
El Ropo Wilt is the Greatest Talent. Kareem is most accomplished
El Ropo I can respect that
that makes no sense
You are absolutely right
Tayl0rd it does. Talent is one factor, what you were able to accomplish with it, it's another
They have the best arguments no talking over each other just good arguments
Not at all, Cris has weak arguments and doesn't call Nick on his lies about stats. they do need CB for sure
Nick wright and lbj in the thumbnail sounds like im in for a heaping pile of delusions
Nick is like that happy girlfriend when he talks about LeBron
Jordan came out of college and never switched teams and got all his rings from being on one team. Not saying lebron isnt great, hes just not jordan great.
Sean Lee dawg do some thinking for a moment. He had the best team of that era. GSW best in this era, lebron would be undefeated if he was on the warriors
@@123Aballer so would a lot of all time greats
@@123Aballer and Jordan went undefeated with much less All Stars
@@killcount4750 How many teams did Jordan face that started 5 all-stars? What teams did Jordan face who had 4 HOFs in the starting lineup? It's easy to bring up the argument about "Jordan had less all-star help" when the best teams in the league had ONE superstar, two stars AT MOST. LeBron consistently has played against teams with multiple stars, multiple HoFs, and even teams with THREE MVPs.
Higher quality teammates? LeBron. Even though Pippen is better than ANYONE LeBron has played with outside of Wade, and Wade was in a rocket-fueled decline after 2011.
Higher quality of competition? Lebron by a country mile.
@@Xzei yet he still lost in 2011 and got out played by a role player
I'm glad we're finally having this debate. About time
What are your thoughts now
@@billnuna1702 lebron is the goat
Whenever people debate against LeBron they always talk about the bad things in his career but they never talk about bad things that have happened in Jordan's career. And don't try to act like nothing bad has ever happened with his career, like being eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. And what team has Jordan beaten in the finals that were better than the 2015-2016 Warriors that LeBron beat??
I'm a Jordan and LeBron fan and I do think Jordan is better but people never bring up the bad things that have happened in Jordan's career.
When Jordan started his career the East was light years harder then the East today.. Even during his 90’s run Pistons at the end of their run and then Knicks and Pacer teams very good.. The East in Lebrons era terrible if he had to play in the West he probably never would have won a title .. Had Jordan never went to the wizards and ruined his stats he had Lebron in blks, ppg , steals more clutch and yes more athletic .. Lebron ran from the dunk contest for a reason is not better then Mj .. The game is easier to score today as well .. Mj much better post player then Lebron too.. Three pointer baloney is funny different era but in the finals Mj much better three point shooter then Lebron..
Are you high? You think the Pacers and Knicks of the 90s would do ANYTHING in the NBA during LeBron's career? Dumbest comment I've ever seen.
LeBron and the Cavs ran through the East yes, but then they came back from down 3-1 and beat a 73 win team. No East team Jordan went against was beating those Cavs teams.
Cant deny the championships but wen u bring up bill russel it doesnt matter
When Russell was playing in a league with 8 teams and a bunch of short, slow white boys it DOES matter. But Jordan's skill, athleticism, grace, and drive are what make him the GOAT. Compare that to LeBron dribbling the ball off his foot or slinging it into the stands trying to do a spin dribble, or just losing control of it driving the lane, AND being afraid to take it to the hoop with the game on the line for fear of missing free throws and losing the game and you see some other things that matter.
Micheal Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
Every year its the same arguement and the same answer: Jordan.
Loony T LeBron the way better basketball player bro bro but Jordan has the better legacy
jima dak Wrong again😂😂😂😂Boistop"
jima dak I agree the only thing whu Jordan says he better is because the 6 rings 6 mvs if mj had 6 rings 1mvp the goat would be Kareem
jima dak I'm be honest LeBron is way better than Jordan as a basketball player.
Wilt is the GOAT
IF ALIENS COME DOWN TO EARTH IM TAKING JORDAN LMAOOO.. bruh jordan in his prime was virtually unguardable along with being a god defender... and then again obviously jordan takes more shot due to the 3 ball lmao
Jordan had the 3pt line moved 2 feet closer for 3 years lol. Jordan's 3pt% WITHOUT those 3 years.. is a 26%. I wouldn't want Jordan ever taking a 3pt shot. God defender? Jordan has a DPOY... but never had a year better in defense than a 100 rating. LeBron has 2 years UNDER 100. Being virtually unguardable is fine... he can drop 63 on the Celtics in the playoffs. But he's getting swept in that series. And the next year swept against the Celtics too.
Heat Lifer i mean who else was on that laughable bulls team and on top of that jordan was in his early seasons going against on of the greatest teams ever 😂. I already know that point about the 3 ball but at the same time they wasn’t taking as much 3s anyway
Heat Lifer Mj has more all defensive teams than Lebron and was also a 3 time steals leader to lebrons 0 Lebron hasn't made an all defensive team since the 2012-13 season
I'd probably take Shaq before Jordan.
LBJ is GOAT
@@lawrencemcdonald9212 not like mj can guard durant or gianiss
aliens came and JORDAN BEAT THEM. enough said
😂😂😂
Nick's game 7 argument helps Jordan cause Jordan never allowed a series to go 7 games
He allowed a game 7 in the 1990 ECF, 1992 ECSF and 1998 ECF, any goal post moving logic (he never allowed in the Finals) and excuse will not change these facts
Well I'm glad we watching last dance. So young ppl can see mj
@Sid Shades you think the pistons lakers jazz and pacers were trash 🤦♀️🤦♀️
@Sid Shades I can't believe you're saying your opinion in public! You have to be 10 yrs old!
Lol Bron wore 23 because? Exactly....
Scottie Pippen was essentially the Kawhi Leonard of the 90's. Kaehi is considered a top 3 player by the majority of NBA fans. LBJ never had an accomplished player of that caliber to help him win championships.
You can make a slight argument for Dwayne Wade, but there is no denying his steady decline after the 2010-11 season.
Chrisjb1983 Dwayne wade won a scoring title and led him to winning a championship. Scottie pippen’s highest Ppg average was 22 ppg. Wade is far better than Scottie
I don't even know why they call you NICK WRIGHT when you're always WRONG!!!
Love how he cherry picks stats that fit his argument when titles, PER and scoring favors Jordan. Breaking career numbers don't mean much Kareem, Kobe and even Malone passed Jordan in scoring and most people still choose Jordan. I will concede Lebron is great and has a strong case for #2 due to his consistent greatness so does Kareem. #1 is Jordan.
so you picked 3 stats that Jordan is ahead of James. nick said about 5 or 6 by my count
@@RL-ww5ev these two are more important and don’t forget that jordan blows james out of the water in accolades and did more in less time
@@trewic8678 probably bc he had no real comp, he can't exactly beat Stephen curry who makes 93/100 3pt shots for a scoring title. The people who do play defense r dominant at it like giannis.
LeBron is so incredible, yet the two greatest teams of this generation are probably the 2014 Spurs and the 2017 Warriors.
Sure, It's a team game but Jordan was never overshadowed by another team expect maybe the Pistons but he was still pretty young there.
Even when they were swept by the Celtics in 86 all anybody talked about was how great Jordan was (the 63 point game...).
His great scoring (scoring titles, even), led the Bulls to three sub-.500 seasons. (Take away one, since he was injured most of the season.) His apologist say, but he had to face the great teams who were the top seed. Yes, because his losing record teams barely squeaked into the playoffs in the 8th and last spot. One huge scorer is not winning basketball. He typically held everyone but one on his teams to single digit scoring averages.
That's not an argument. You can't blame someone for being so good he made the other teams look like trash. Are the teams the warriors played in the finals weak because they are so good. Are the teams the Spurs played weak because they were a very good team?
LeBron is not a showman. MJ was a Spectacle to watch.
Jordan’s Playoffs
‘85: 29-6-9
‘86: 44-6-6
‘87: 36-7-6
‘88: 36-7-5
‘89: 35-7-8
‘90: 37-7-7
‘91: 31-6-8
‘92: 35-7-6
‘93: 35-7-6
‘95: 31.5 PPG
‘96: 31 PPG
‘97: 31-8-5
‘98: 32-5-4
Plus he was extremely efficient shooting 83% from the Free throw line.. always playing lock down D!
*maybe you should pick a year Nick
Nick needs help....
Drop lebron in the 80s and see what happens
Seth Clark LeBron would be ringless in the 80s he wouldn't even make a final
@@unseatedtree3955 Kind of like Jordan?
Listen to those Ron Artest stories. High school Lebron was cooking the old heads. They knocked him on the ground and he continued to roast them
3 - 6 vs 6 - 0 Finals should pretty much end this debate. Especially the way LBJ lost to the '11 Mavs & Warriors.
Bro its not a 1 on 1 sport like boxing or mma. “Its not an accomplishments question, its whose better at the sport.” Lebron wins
@@Tomsta62 The debate is about who is the greatest right? So how can you claim LeBron is better when he as accomplished less? Teams win championships and great players lead them. You think the Bulls would've win 6 rings without Jordan?
Even when you look at individual stats, PER, achievements, changes in defensive rules, Jordan is the better player CLEARLY. So either way you look at it Jordan is the GOAT!
@@Tomsta62 dude it's not "who is better" it's who is the greatest of all time. Jordon never let a series get to game 7 in the finals because he closed every series out before that. LeBron in 2011 just killed his chance in my book. And now he's stat padding in LA and he took Jordon's number and he's making Space Jam 2. C'mon man even he thinks Jordon is the GOAT
Lol couldnt guard 5 positions
Lol but he doesn't defend any
Jordan was everywhere
The presence on the court made everyone look for him
Same with scottie
6:15 That Dallas Mavericks SWEPT KOBE BRYANT TWO TIME REIGNING CHAMPIONS in the very same Playoffs.
Demolished OKC with KD,Westbrook and HARDEN. So I don't think it was such a weak team after all.
Because he couldn't stop Jason Terry
Nick always relies on one sided stats for his arguments.
When it mattered the most (finals) MJ raised his game even higher and went 6 for 6.
Lebrons legacy will go down as the greatest iron man of the nba.
What you all dont understand is its a team sport
@@steff9446 thank you
If jordan is the goat why did he go to only 6 finals, if he is the goat he should have gone to more finals
If you look at stats, lebron is a better finals performer than Jordan, the only difference is that jordan had help and faced weaker opposition in the finals, while lebron most of the time had no help in the finals, and faced tuffer opposition , hence jordan having more rings
This aged extremely well
This discussion was over when Lebron left Cleveland. You have to switch teams twice to win? And you still lose 5 times in the finals. That’s done. Jordan improved with the same team and went 6 for 6.
you're a fool lmao
Jordan accomplished more than lebum in less time of course he's gonna pass Jordan on stats .. If Jordan never took that break his stats would be more and maybe another 2 chips to his name .. Jordan is the Goat period
Imagine if he hadn’t been injured for most of 85 and didn’t retire twice.
🤡 never call the goat lebum ever again u clown
Kobe > L3/8ron
L🤦🏾♂️
Actually. By the end of lebrons career, he will have like five rings or more. The finals losses will just be a plus
Let me educate you young LeBron fans. Now those of you that say LeBron is a better all around player I want you to look at these stats and this will prove he is not more of an all around player than Jordan.
Career Totals
Points Jordan: 30.1
Points Lebron: 27.2
Assists Jordan: 5.3
Assists Lebron: 7.2
Rebounds Jordan: 6.2
Rebounds Lebron: 7.4
Steals Jordan: 2.3
Steals Lebron: 1.6
Blocks Jordan: 0.8
Blocks Lebron: 0.8
Turnovers per game Jordan: 2.8
Turnovers Per game Lebron: 3.5
So in this case its Jordan 3 Lebron 2. Now lets go to the most all around stat there is in which is Player efficiency rating.
Per Jordan: 27.91
Per Lebron: 27.69
So now it is Jordan 4 Lebron 2.
Now let’s look at the defensive side of the ball. While many of you say that Lebron is a great team defender because of his blocks Jordan still averages the same amount of blocks Lebron has. Lebron is a terrible on ball defender and you can tell just by watching his games his whole career. But I will give proof Jordan was a better defender.
Jordan won the defensive player of the year in 1988. Mean while Lebron never won a defensive player of the year. MJ would lock stars up and shut them down playing on ball defense while lebron would cherry pick a lot of his rebounds and his man would score on him plenty of times. Michael Jordan also has more All NBSA defensive teams.
So again if we are going all around it is Jordan 5 Lebron 2.
And people I just want to point out Jordan can even pass the ball like Lebron did believe it or not. In the 1991 finals Jordan had to play the point a lot. He averaged 11.4 assists per game on the biggest stage in which lebron I am sure has never averaged that many assists per game on the biggest stage. Jordan could pass the ball if he wanted his game to revolve like that but he wanted to take the game in his own hands most of the time because he was clutch. Meanwhile Lebron, needs his teammates at the end of games to step up for him.
Anything Lebron can do Jordan can do AND better.
So when we look at all around game I must say it is close but that is the only argument Lebron fans have. I would give Jordan even the edge on that. But I will be nice let’s say they are even.
Now this will put the nail in the coffin as to why Jordan is better than Lebron.
Now NBA finals wins
Jordan: 6 for 6 -never allowed a game 7
Lebron: 3 and 5 -has had multiple melt downs in the finals.
Michael Jordan was a way more mentally tough player than Lebron James he always stepped up his game when the game got bigger, meanwhile, Lebron relies on teammates too much in the fourth quarter. Just like the Mavericks finals game. Lebron has made the finals many times because the eastern conference is soo weak and the times where he actually has competition he is 3 and 5 which is pretty pathetic if he wants to be called the GOAT.
Now let’s go season MVP’s
Jordan: 5
Lebron: 4
Lebron still has a career to go but most likely will not win another MVP with Harden winning this year and with LBJ getting much older.
Jordan played in a much tougher era where there was hand checking. For those of you that say handchecking did not make a difference I want you to go outside and have someone guard you. I want for the first play someone to hand check you and then the second play for someone to guard you straight up without even touching you. Trust me you will see a major difference in difficulty.
Now Lebron has like 30 pounds on Jordan but player that have played against both say that Jordan was just as strong as Lebron going to the whole.
Also Jordan even got up higher than Lebron did. Lebron is 2 inches taller BUT Jordan’s vertical is 5 inches higher. People it is not even close as to who is better Lebron or Jordan. As you can see with proof Lebron was not a better all around player and Jordan was better than Lebron in the big games.
Don't throw pearls to the pigs Bron fans won't get it.
Lebron can't even stand on Kobe. Jordan schooled Kobe. You know who's the Goat. Period.
I am with lebron
Facts.. :
1. LBJ's help since Miami is statistically better by far than any help mjs ever had
2. MJ has a dpoy LBJ doesn't
3. MJ has more first all defense teams
4. MJ avg more steals pg
5. MJ and lbj are tied in blocks even though lbj is way bigger and more "athletic".
6. Mjs footwork was miles better than LBJ's thus making him a better lateral defender
7. Lbj never could guard centers it pgs because he would get burned most of the time so he was only truly guarding 3 positions
8. MJ was just as efficient in a WAY tougher nba and less statistical help to take off the pressure
9. MJ has 6 rings and never went to a game 7 in the finals
10. With all the facts Nick gives, he states mj wouldn't have 6 rings had he faced these warriors although that's just an opinion so there goes "he states facts all the time"
11. Nick feels 3 rings and stat records means that you're the goat, most of America doesn't agree with that, even former players, coaches and fans.
12. MJ was far more clutch
13. MJ has never missed the playoffs in a bulls uniform...lbj missed the playoffs twice
14. MJ played in the triangle, if he wanted, he could've averaged 30 8 8 but that wouldn't happen in that system and MJ didn't play the point, pippen did. MJ didn't care to do so as he specified in his books. He wanted to conserve energy for the end of games, thus, 6 rings.
15. MJ had a bigger heart and will to win... He's NEVER been dethroned after winning an nba title.... EVER. lbj has
16. MJ had a better jump shot and ft shooting
17. MJ was better at improvising mid air against bigger and stronger players
18. Mjs never been outplayed by another player in the finals... especially not one but TWO of his teammates...
19. MJ has the highest PER IN NBA HISTORY!!!!! BOOM!!!!!
You the GOAT.
Aden Martinez W
Amen
even if you put 1000 facts these bronsexual idiots won't listen. and nick wright is their leader
Mj shot 51% fgs until he joined the wiz at like 38 years old and out of basketball shape dude. It's like saying LeBron doesn't have a better jumper than Kareem because lbj shot more jumpers and Kareem is a 58% fg shooter..... Nobody does anything alone.... unless you're LeBron James because LeBron " never has help". You bron fans always change the narrative to fit your debate.
If LeBron James has to make two free throws to save the world from Aliens we would all be dead.
If Jordan had to carry a team to the finals to save the world from aliens we’d all be dead.
why are we still comparing.. we al know M. J. is the GOAT
Lebron beat Jordan..... In losing the finals...Hahaha Nick is blind...
Ck M 4:58
Michael Jordan, he has better stats, won more Championships, more awards, and plus, rules have changed over the years to make the NBA more soft. So, Michael Jordan is the GOAT, or Kobe.
y’all mind if i praise the lord? Kobe is a strong second
By your logic, If LeBron was allowed to play “physical” like Jordan could, he’d have won multiple DPOYs considering what he did in the modern era right?
It was rough back then, of course Mike's prime wasn't longer than LeBron's. Mike isn't as big as LeBron either and Mike still was the best, just imagine if Jordan was LeBron's size. He would've been... I don't know what he would have been!!! I just know he did all he did at his size in a harder and tougher era and that says enough for me. Mike's the G.O.A.T.
This guy said Jordan got destroyed by Orlando in 95, when the fact is that series went six games with half of those games ending in single digits
he doesn't bring up lebron losing to the Magic.
Plus he was coming off a season with baseball then swept them next time
Lebron got blowned out 3 times in the finals
Mazen Marie 5:00
LeBron plays in a much more athletically gifted, smarter and sophisticated era of basketball without ever having the benefit of an elite coach or a Pippen that could lead the team to 55 victories without him.
Put LeBron on the Spurs with Kawhi and he's got rings for every toe.
Galero, he would miss up Kawhi game. And you Lebron isn't coachable material. It's the lebron iso ball syndrome.
Galero15 You right
TheDude When Lebron went to Miami that’s when he learned about being coachable and trusting other players sometimes so your statement makes no sense
He just had Dwayne Wade who led a team to a ring and was MVP of the Finals. Wade had one of the best Final's performance ever.
@@brandonpurdy7658 ikr and Bosh...still lose to the 1 all star Mavs
DIFFERENT ERAS DIFFERENT ERAS
I'm referring to Nick Wright. He isn't being objective he is being subjective and bias! This guy is just running his mouth about a guy who is 3 for 9 NBA Finals!