I love being the support. Throwing haste on the paladin as a sorcerer, bless the barbarian as a cleric, inspire as a bard and then watch my party go to town is the best feeling.
I also love being the support role. I find a lot of people don’t always go for that, probably because they’re only helping and not getting the big damage in themselves. But I don’t mind. I know they only hit, or stayed in the fight, or made their saving throw because of me. Divine Soul Sorcerer X/Hexblade Warlock 2 was a great mix. A little offense from Warlock (which, four Eldritch blasts plus my charisma mod was not little by any means) and twinning Haste on the Fighter and Druid was often how I spent my time. Loved it.
I've always respected clerics, but rarely played them as my main character. After playing DDO and saving multiple parties' arses (nevermind taking on quests above our level), they've become more entertaining for me than any tank or frontline role. You literally are the one who's saving member's arses and protecting everyone, while protecting yourself at the same time. 😇👍
I definitely see where you're going and like that idea, but personally I play s lot of support and would find that slightly condescending or unnecessarily time consuming. It's definitely nice if the other player appreciates it though :)
17:43 pro tip from a new DM, if you look in the PHB under chapter 7 page 178, if your players become stuck you can have one of them make a wisdom check to have a gut feeling of what course of action to follow. I use this whenever my players become unsure what to do.
"Play the character you want to play" is lovely advice, unfortunately I am compelled to not be the same class as anyone else. Fortunately, I have two dozen character concepts already planned so I always manage to play something I want to.
lol same, I have so many characters in my back log that im prepared to play anything the party needs. Sometimes im happy when a character of mine dies so I can select one that might fit better with the party comp.
@@andrewpeli9019 it's not even about that with me, it's just a source of incredible irritation/anxiety for me playing as the same class (or race, but to a lesser extent). But then again, I am waiting on an OCD assessment 😅
@@xxXXRAPXXxx Falls into conflict avoidance system (or as i chose to call it, C.A.S. (fuck you Sims)) The enemy can't fight you while lost in the passion of love (or just horny)
@@rompevuevitos222 LoL makes me think of The Book of Erotic Fantasy from 3.5. Nothing takes down the enemies quite like a Mass Orgasmic Vibrations spell.
I still think it’s really important to ask ahead what the party looks like not just for balance but I don’t wanna step on people’s toes with how I’m going to roleplay my character
Agreed. I'm playing a Rogue this game because my group decided to shuffle roles around this time and no one else picked this up. (I normally play magic artillery.)
You can both be part of a Rogue type and the ranged Blaster by rolling up an Artillerist Artificer. You may not necessarily have Stealth, but you will be able to open locks, remove traps, etc.
that's so true when a friend of mine made a bard to act as a negotiator and utility, both roles that i would do as a shadow sorcerer, I decided then to play as a pugilist battlemaster and be the frontline for my party, so she could have this spotlight in those situations
Monty, I can’t express how much respect I have for you’re relentless commitment to the hoodie. It’s not just attire, it’s a lifestyle. Keep it up, homie.
@@richardwhaler8717 Depends on what spells you take from Warlock. I tend to take utility spells from Warlock as well as Invocations that give me leveled spells as at-wills like Detect Thoughts.
@@thetimebinder warlock utility stuff isn't that great though, and with so few spells known, and the lack of spellslots you're kind of handicapping yourself spending them on utility that doesn't upcast well. Plus lack of ritual casting is big drawback for trying to be utility as a lock. And none will help you navigate through the woods or avoid an ambush.
IMO the closest you can get to "do it all" is Fey Ranger (add wis to social skills and some extra proficiencies) + Moondruid (WS can cover physical stuff and tanking, spells for utility & support) depending on the level breakdown could use Ranger archery for DPS. Though a Scout Rogue x totem Barbarian is up there as well (6 sets of Expertise, extra proficiencies from Barbarian, rage & Evasion for tanking..)
My Tabaxi Gloomstalker Ranger covered a lot... in very specific ways. Mostly because he was stealthy (Tabaxi Gloomstalker.. Cloak of Elvenkind) and highly mobile. "Shit the Druid is down, why is the druid down? Ok I'm not attacking this round, run over there, pick him up run out." "Oh the Sorcerer is on the floor... again? Druid is busy with a concentration spell. Run over Pick up sorcerer." His main role was actually high mobility beatdowns. "No, you don't get to run away and heal coz I'm going to chase you down and spank you."
I just started playing again after having not played since 4e. I wanted to play support, focusing on healing, so I went Life Domain cleric with a Druid dip for Goodberry. I have, most combats, been much closer to damage and tank, with back up utility. Healing has been pretty far down on my list of priorities, tbh, especially since our DM has been averaging one combat between long rests.
I stopped asking "What do we need?" when it's my turn to make a character, because I got sick of being quasi-assigned a character class and ask "What do we have?".
Don't ask at all. Just make the character that you want to play. It makes for some super funny campaigns. We once had a party where we had 4 rogues and 1 sorcerer. It was nuts! We also had another one shot where everyone was a full caster: 1 cleric, 2 warlocks, a bard, and a mystic. We didn't need a frontline, because our high initiatives led to us wiping half the enemy forces on the first turn of combat, provided that the 3 face characters hadn't sweet talked their way past hostilities.
I've only been a player twice (both campaigns still going currently) and both times I waited to pick last so I could be the "well what are we missing?" character. If I ever play in another campaign, I'm playing what I want without asking.
@@carsonrush3352 How has this worked out for you roleplay-wise? In my experience not discussing who you play and especially your motivations and ideals can easily lead to the party just not working together and splitting up.
4 man combo? EZ. Artificer - Armorer, Artificer -Artillerist, Artificer - Battlesmith, and Artificer - Alchemist. Your entourage consists of metal dogs, walking turrets, flying cats and WAY too many magic items.
@@brannenpfister2579 Clerics are well-known to be the most powerfull class in DnD. I think that Twilight domain is most powerfull ofc and then it's a draw between Life and Peace and would place Forge or Tempest on the fourth.
I've often thought about the fun of a small party made up solely of bards- a band, if you will. But through the various colleges, they actually are able to cover down on the various roles and compliment each other's skills and abilities.
I now it's a year later so you probably won't respond be please explain how the hard can fill any role beyond Face, Investigator and Infiltration? And why want you'd do if the bard just went whispers with expertise in investigation and just did all 3 in one character? I really need help understanding a bard because I can only see them as the most limited class
@@kingduckie9135 Valor/Swords bard for the combat roles. Lore bard for extra utility (extra skills + additional magical secrets. Bards already have great utility, so it's not even necessary). They all get bardic inspiration, but if you want even more support, maybe an eloquence bard for improved inspirations (or another lore bard to steal some cleric spells). There you have it. Creation, Glamour etc. also have their uses. Bards can basically do anything. Basically, magical secrets can cover almost everything.
@@kingduckie9135 Bards are a jack of all trades, master of none. They can do literally everything, but someone can probably do it better. That doesn’t mean they’re incompetent in that area, though. They can still be very good at the role they’re filling.
Playing a sorcerer in the campaign I'm currently in. I'm filling so many roles right now due to my other two party members being extremely combat oriented (opting for damage and tankiness rather than control). I may not be dealing the most damage but that twinned haste combined with the battlefield control that sorcerers have as well as the social skills from charisma makes me really glad I played a sorcerer.
I feel this! Right now, playing a cleric alongside a monk/rogue, barbarian, and fighter. Rogue is great for certain exploration and stealth style infiltration but oh boy do I feel like i'm juggling a lot of hats
Just started playing an Armorer Artificer and it's incredibly fun being both the damage absorbing tank AND the big brain support. While I don't have as big a health pool as a Barbarian or Paladin would, I have so many tools and spells at my disposal to mitigate or ignore damage that it ends up not mattering much.
most D&D parties I have been in has been like: 1 person is the Support and the Utility, 3-4 people are Front Liners/The Beat Down, and one person is literally everything else.
celestial warlock as support, utility, with a hint of investigator, along with infiltrator via pact of chain....... P.S.: Beatdown via Eldritch Blast, a literally one man army
So I'm playing my first game, & as a druid I turned into a dog to cheer up a sad kid, he ended up actually telling me why he was sad, & that led to the druid finding out there's a cave in the woods that can enter a mansion other than the actually entrance... we are inside & now we wait...
Legit! I’ve been looking for a video like this for the past week! Then the dungeon dudes show up*: “No problem, man. We’ve got you. We’ll upload this video right now.” Pretty cool. I’ve been playing an Oath of Devotion Paladin in a party with a druid, a wild magic sorcerer, and a monk. Now I realize we don't have to force our characters to cover every base. We just have to be smart with an additional skill or two we can be good at/lean into.
Seconded. And since you guys asked us to, here are a few combos. I'm doing trios or duos instead as a mental exercise. 1. Paladin for Front Line, Beat Down, and Negotiator 2. Lore Bard for Investigator, Utility, and Support 3. Monk with Criminal Background (looking back to 1e) for Utility and Infiltrator/Explorer 1. Moon Druid for Beat Down, Support, and Infiltrator/Explorer 2. Battle Smith Artificer for Front Line, Utility, and Investigator 1. Barbarian or Fighter for Front Line and Beat Down 2. Sorcerer and/or Warlock for Support and Negotiator 3. Ranger or Arcane Trickster Rogue for Utility, Investigator, and Infiltrator/Explorer And you can pretty much put a Cleric anywhere, depending on the details.
I actually agree with this. But a party of 4 wizards can all pick schools and spells that lean them more towards filling one of those roles, which would make really dynamic gameplay. I would so be here for an evoker, diviner, illusion, and necromancer campaign.
@@DungeonDudes as slimee mentioned Bladesinger. I think the main difficulty with all wizards is social, cause no charisma kinda hurts. I mean spells help somewhat but not all the way? early on single target damage will suffer heavily. Magic missile is just not sufficient - and after a few casts you are stuck with firebolts :P
@@geniumme2502 the spells enhanced ability and skill empowerment could probably go a long way. Especially when the 4 theoretical wizards have so many slots between each other.
"So what does a redemption paladin do?" Sit down while I heal the bartender and convince the tavern to ignore the bandit I just cleaved then smited to hell
Don't forget that I'm going to do this while standing in front of all the enemy swords for everyone and using my reaction to negate that fireball to the wizard's face.
By your definition, I fall into the utility classification. My bard's most used spell is prestidigitation and she constantly amuses the party with the inventive ways she comes up with to use it in combat. For example, we once fought a necromancer who attacked us by summoning a ghost wyvern, and she used prestidigitation to make the necromancer smell like roast meat. The DM was so amused by it that she gave the wyvern concentration checks every round for the rest of the fight, and if it failed it would attack the necromancer instead.
@@kellenbigmanWouldn't an artificer/fae wanderer be able to fulfill all of these roles? Front liner=artificer, The Beat Down=artificer supplemented with ranger, utility=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Support=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Investigator=artificer, negotiator=fae wanderer and finally Infiltrator/Explorer=mostly ranger supplemented with artificer, because they get disguise self.
@@jugglejunk your point? Why are you replying to me? I was merely appreciating the above time map of the video. That said... No single character can be all of those at the same time bud. Besides, as long as you're aware of those roles needing to be filled by the party as a whole is the important bit. Who cares how it gets done, as long as it's achieved.
@@kellenbigman I appreciate his comment too. You know how sometimes you can have an idea that you just have to share with someone else (even if they didn't ask for it)? This is a similar case, where I thought that it could work as a build that can cover any role in a pinch. To me there's an 8th role that of the all rounder/pinch filler/enabler, who can jump to fill in/assist in any off the other roles or make the specialist in 1 of the other roles even better at what they do. (Say if the specialist that normally does the job, having extra redunduncy is useful.) What do you think?, could an artificer/fae wanderer ranger be build to be a good all rounder/pinch filler/enabler? What might you do differently?
@@jugglejunk If you're asking what I think: I don't care. You seem really interested in it though so good for you chief. I hope you find a group as excited about your really niche interest as you are.
I wanted to get my friends to do an all Artificer party... 4 characters, each a different subclass. If you look at the subclasses of Artificer, they really cover a large part of what you need. Alchemists can be support, Artillerists can be your blasters, Battle Smiths can do damage and exploration and Armourers can be your front-liners. Also, they're all utility, are commonly proficient in Tinkerer's Tools (and Thieves tools), so they can do most of the roles. Finally... you've got a party of mad scientists running around and how cool is that?
Regardless of your character class/subclass or spell load-out, you can always be an effective party "healer" by simply buying a medicine kit, taking the medicine skill and/or taking the healer feat. Rogues have tons of skills they to spare, and fighters get extra feats as they advance, for example.
My Sorcerer is the sudo-healer of the group between proficiency with an alchemist and herbalism kit to make potions and having the Healer feat. We have two paladins and even a Cleric (not the full party, just included) with mostly healing spells, but I think I've more often than not taken time to heal everyone outside of combat while the other two do so during it.
My 1st level Human Monk looking over at my group of a Tiefling Sorcerer with only fire spells, and a Gnome Ranger that only uses a crossbow. Really hope I survive to level 3.
As someone playing a Human Monk (lvl 6 by now) let me tell you... Monks are very versitile, everybody thinks monks are like boring to play but the RP potencial is GOD like, also at level 3 you are gonna be a life saviour (more than 30 ft speed is super useful too), at 5th level you can flip social and battle encounters with Stunning Strike ☆ Good luck
I'm DMing for family, all with very little experience with d&d. My quiet, introverted sister who loves music chose to play a bard, while my extroverted husband went with a naive, social bumbler of a cleric. The number of times already where the cleric has put his foot in his mouth before the bard has figured out what to say is beginning to annoy the rest of the party.
Seriously. My group just got into a 5v5 coliseum fight, festival week at the current city, and I’m doing the most damage while also healing/buffing/moving party members out of danger.
Me and my brother are playing a campaign. I'm a Gnome Artillerist Artificer. He's a Aarakocra Barbarian. His character and mine essentially developed a baby harness so that he can carry me while he flies and I just fire my flamethrower and cast ranged spells while in the air. Its great.
your point about "who's the beatdown" reminded me of a low level game where me (a paladin trained in athletics using sword and board for max defense) and my fellow fronliner (a dual wielding, offense focused figther) were getting wrecked by a gargoyle tanking our OA to do hit and fly and negating my friends multiattacking strategy . Cue me dropping my warhammer and using a readied action to grapple it with my free hand. I was doing 0 damage from this point on, but the figther got to leverage his build to do his 2 attacks round uninterrupted and finish it off.
Agreed. My all time favorite character’s lowest stat was his charisma. Yet my party referred to me as the defacto leader despite us being equals. More often than not I was either the one to strategize the party, or negotiate through dialogue.
Our team is consisted of a ranger, a barbarian, a rogue, and me, the Wizard. We're playing CoS. I'm forced to be the support, the healer, and I'm taking two levels in Artificer just to be able to make my team's weapons magical, and get cure wounds. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
Why the heck isn't your bard doing it? Everything in the bard's entire kit screams mostly utility and support. Your wizard should be damage and crowd control. I think you need to talk to the the other players in your party and DM regarding what you and the other players want to do as members of the party and that you feel like your being pressured to do something you don't want to.
@@gamecavalier3230 Oh whoops, that changes things, yeah not sure what should happen in that case, the party didn't pick any support roles at all. Either way i think a conversation should still happen regarding what roles people are covering if the wizard player doesnt want to be a healer.
@@gamecavalier3230 Possibly, but that's assuming that the ranger doesn't want to use their limited spell slots on things like hunters mark and such. Also i've heard that the CoS module can be kinda brutal. Haven't played it yet though.
My four member party: - twilight cleric; - oath of vengeance paladin; - bear totem barbarian; - enchantment wizard. It's a really solid party and pretty much covers all the roles you mentioned.
@@Teaandephemery Possibly, though a few well picked spells and the casters can easily support a Hasted party and Spirit Guardians which allows the Fighter to shine and finish off enemies between himself and the Echo while the Time Wizard can pepper supporting fire with cantrips, an occasional reroll against incoming critics, and if needed toss a big boy spell. I ran this team against a massive dungeon crawl to test the ability and it was regrettably easy to conquer it.
Totally wanna play a "Utility" Rogue with abit of "The Beat Down" character, my idea is: 1) Go Mastermind. 2) Get Expertise in Thieves Tools & Sleight of Hand (Mainly to disarm traps & open locks.) 4) Get the Alert Feat so i go first in combat most of the time. 5) Sneak Attack from a safe distance anything the other melee players are locked with and then give Advantage on attack roles with my Help (Now a Bonus Action) so if i don't kill the enemy then no biggie, i "soften them up" for my buddy who's gonna finish them off next with their next attack that now has advantage. Alternatively i could go with a Thief that took the Healer feat so i can "be the field medic" and patch everyone up with a Bonus Action when the main healer is down, but it feels abit more situational.
I just recently got into D&D. It was a jump off the deep end, all new players (including me) and I volunteered to be DM. Your videos have been great in getting me ready and putting me in the right mindset to play/lead the game. THANK YOU!
These guys are great, but Matt Colville is The Dungeon Master on RUclips. He can really help. Got aw whole series called Running the Game based solely on being a DM.
@@rokkkrinn2793 thanks for the heads up! Found Matt Colville's channel/videos. I'll definitely add that channel to my resources for tips&tricks. Thanks again!!
I love my battlefield controlling magical Swiss Army knife. I do next to no damage and I enjoy every minute of it. I’ll take spoiling the DM’s plans and buffing my friends over rolling big damage dice all day long.
A whole party of Warlocks. A Hexblade, a Fiend, a Celestial, and an Archfey. They have all the basic covered, and they all have devilsight... gets pretty crazy when they cast darkness on the Hexblade's sword
gets tome for utility, get chains for infiltration, gets talisman for support, gets bladepact for frontline/beatdown. invocations for investigation and naturally high charisma for negotiator....
A party may have it roles defined and prepared, but on paper all plans can be functional, until the shit hits the fan, and you hace to improvise, then its mostly plausible everyone has to improvise and will commit mistakes, even the most veteran would fail into this issue. The thing is to play well, but mostly to have fun.
When I'm helping new players create a character, I provide them with the following five combat roles, to see what they want to do: FRONTLINER: Almost always a melee combatant, Frontliners can usually do decent damage, but their core feature is their ability to tank hits, whether via AC or HP or more unusual defenses. The Frontliner is really the only mandatory role (even if it's handled by a summoned monster or cohort or something) because all those enemy attacks have to go SOMEWHERE. STRIKER: Strikers do a lot of damage, but are relatively fragile compared to Frontliners. They usually needs support (buffs, flanking, someone else to take the hits) to reach their full potential, but when they do, they tend to melt foes. SHOOTER: Shooters do damage at range, either with a bow, a firearm, thrown weapons or spells. Since they don't worry as much about positioning as a melee combatant, they can focus on scoring kills, and they can afford to be a little more fragile (though they aren't necessarily, especially if they are a martial class). They aren't usually able to contribute much beyond reducing foe HP, however. Blaster mages and Eldritch Blast fit in here. SUPPORT CASTER: Support Casters use magic or similar abilities (bardic inspiration, sharing teamwork feats) to heal and buff allies, increasing the team's overall firepower and survivability. OFFENSE CASTER: Offense Casters are not necessarily concerned with doing damage via their spells or similar abilities (that would be a Shooter), but rather on inconveniencing and weakening the enemy as much as possible. Debuffs, curses and status effects fall here, as well as battlefield control abilities like Black Tentacles and any Wall spell that limit the enemy's ability to move where they want to.
I wonder what do you guys thing about D&D 5e compared to previous versions? I've only played 3.5 back in the day, but I genuinely feel they stripped the game a lot and took out some amazing gameplay elements. Am I not familiar enough with the 5th edition or is there some truth to this?
you guys rock! DnD has kept me and my friends in touch during the pandemic, and your videos have taught us newbies SO much, and in such a fun way. Thanks for the awesome content!
Bards, Druids, and Paladins all make empirically better "healers" than Clerics in 5e. Cleric is probably the most versatile class after the Wizard, in that they can functionally fit the largest variety of roles effectively, especially at low and mid levels, and particularly with buffing and protecting allies, or dealing consistent and reliable damage.
@@dylandugan76 I can't speak to 5e, but my dedicated healing cleric from Dungeons & Dragons Online (3.5e ruleset) was unbeatable by anyone. That cleric could not only regeneratively heal in a small aura, they could power heal party members using individual spells and didn't need to use mass heals at all (it actually caused their spell points to drain quicker using mass heals). We did dungeons that were CR: 12 at level 10 or CR: 22 at level 20 for instance.
Swashbuckler Is my favorite Rogue subclass for exactly this reason. I can fight on the frontlines without too much worry thanks to my dex based higher AC, uncanny dodge, evasion, and cunning actions (bolstered by fancy footwork) keeping me out of direct harm, all while punishing foes that target my allies through my Panache. The additional ASI also frees me up to take another feat like Tough. With Rakish Audacity I can reliably deal heavy chunks of damage even when left alone. Investigation and infiltration come naturally to rogues and with the added emphasis that the subclass places on my charisma score, I'm even in a good situation to play the face. And of course, the added skill and tool proficiencies make utility a viable avenue too. Only thing I really struggle with as a Swashbuckler is the Support role, which with feats like Inspiring Leader or Magic initiate, can be dipped into as well. It's really a complete package and if I'm ever at a loss for what I should play, Swashbuckler has become my go-to.
I came to the realization the other day that My party is 4 dps tanks 1 utility warlock Only one character has positive intelligence And I bet you’ll never guess which one
We are starting a new camping tomorrow and only one of us, the cleric, is a spell caster. We have two fighters, a barbarian, and I am a pugilist. I'm excited to see how this goes.
I started my first campaign offering to choose class last and the others choose wizard, warlock, rogue, and sorcerer. I opted initially for paladin over bard, but with a grinner/musician background and I already multiclassed into bard 😁
One of my favorite combos in 5e is when a character that has great weapon master or sharpshooter has an attack roll buff like bardic inspiration or bless. Yes, they will succeed on dealing damage more often but they also take the chance more often because they know they have the support behind them. That’s really hard to quantify but that effect is very present and makes a BIG difference at the table.
Support players be loke thor. "What hope do you have to defeat me" "Me? Ah nah... Him though..." Cast Haste on the Barbarian that is already foaming at the mouth rage. "He can though."
My character is a rune knight with Great weapon master and hex. It’s very fun to absolutely shred anything he touches, along with the added bonus of being able to redirect crits, Fire damage, and physical resistance
This video was very inspiring, a very clean idea sping in my mind: Classes define Combat Roles, while Background define Off-Combat Roles. Following a simple scheme like this can help players differentiate their character and the DM in making adventures to keep engaged all the players in the varies gameplay modes
One of my dms doesnt just ask for charisma checks for negotiating, it all depends on how we approach the conversation. He wants us to lie to him if we are gonna lie, etc. One of the best tense conversations I've ever had didnt have a single persuasion roll made when it came to the most important parts of the convo. It also means my charisma dumped monk can just be the face and help us get through a situation XD
I personally disagree with this approach. This is a game. From my perspective games should have rules, and the rules of this game is that the dice determine the outcome. I wouldn't ask someone to jump a 20 foot gap, so why is it fair to require the player to depend only on their ability to speak convincingly? They used to do this kind of thing 15+ years ago and it completely negated having a Charisma stat, making anyone that invested into the stat feel less useful. I LOVE having my players engage in character, and reward their roll with benefits for good role-play, but it eventually should come down to the dice. You guys play what you all find fun, this is just another perspective.
@@diversezebra6754 I like what my dm does because it allows for us to be able to participate without having to invest in charisma, and it saves us from a potentially bad roll when it doesnt make sense (why would a bard with a +13 fail a persuasion roll on a nat 1 when what they ask for is very reasonable?) He has us make rolls when they are needed. If we push our luck with a request, he calls for a persuasion roll. My example in my original comment, if it was another dm, would've had us make probably 6 rolls when none realistically were needed aside from the 1 request that was pushing our luck. This is also a roleplaying game, and pushing us to be in character in this manner helps make the game more memorable. In a different game I play a charisma dumped monk and she had to (I volunteered) explain why this thing we were sent to scout out was suddenly not there anymore.(a bunch of shit happened and it blew up and we forgot to send word back because of other shenanigans. Oops) This was that same dm and I didnt have to make a roll and the moment was great because asking for a roll would've broken immersion and if I rolled badly it wouldnt really reflect how i actually explained things. It helps make to game feel more realistic. Otherwise the highest charisma person would be the only face because they have the best chances. There's a time and place for the 'face' and having a high charisma. It is a game, but dnd is a roleplaying game at the end of the day. His approach doesn't make charisma useless, it just incentivizes group participation.
It's the case of a dumb-ish player trying to manage a 20-Int pc. You can go for a bit of roleplay, but at the end of the day it's got to be dice. DnD, as good a game as it can be, is not a diceless. If you're after genuine roleplay, go for Amber or On Stage (a DnD and diceless games lover writing). Enjoy! 🤗
The class/role versatility in 5e is why this is my favorite system so far. You can have a session 0 where your players all pick the roles they'll fill, and never discuss class/race choices even once. Then when they all show up for session 1, it could turn out all characters are the same class but are totally different characters, or every role is filled by a class that is completely unexpected, or you could literally never reveal what class everyone is playing. Back in the day you had your fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric. Period. Now your fighter could be a shadow monk teleporting around the battlefield; or a druid who shapeshifts into ferocious beasts; or an artificer gnome in a suit of arcanomechanical armor. Your rogue could be a wizard using magic to investigate; or a warlock with a mysterious invisible familiar. Your wizard can be an artificer unlocking the secrets of magic; or a warlock with a powerful tome that holds mysteries far greater than any wizard's spellbook. Your cleric doesn't even have to exist. Maybe your party is only 3 characters: a paladin, a sorcerer, and a druid. With those 3 classes you can cover the roles of frontliner, backup frontliner, face, ranged DPS, backup ranged DPS, scout, infiltrator, and have 3 healers. The fact that almost every class can fill every role is why 5e is so great.
I've seen infiltrator rogues and rangers almost die so often, I just have the notion that the game of DnD does not support this game style. Being alone AND depending on die rolls? The risk outweights the rewards by a long mile. It's better to get into a place together and deal with whatever's coming at you as a team, rather than risking 1 PC to get who knows what info. In a more narrative game, sure. Being an infiltrator is a lot "safer" since these type of games focus more on narrative functions. If you are an infiltrator, most often than not you'll come and the die roll would only represent how much info you've got
Concept: the divine gang (tm) with their attributes ranked in how well they do it. Zealot barbarian: Front line, beatdown Redemption paladin: Front line, support, beatdown Peace cleric: support, utility, investigation, exploration Divine soul sorcerer: HOLY FUCK THE BEATDOWN, support, negotiator. Celestial warlock: beatdown, support, negotiator, infiltrator
I play a polearm wielding Bear Totem Barbarian/ Battle Master Fighter Bugbear who has a specialized bag on his back that holds my Gnome sister who's a Shepherd Druid. Yea... constantly gaining various hit-points by her Unicorn and Bear spirit abilities makes my Bugbear even more indestructible, pair that with an army of wolves following us around everywhere, we are a mobile destruction force. Not to mention she can cover with various ranged spells, while I defender her from melee attacks like brick wall. True sibling bonding :)
MY CHARACTERS DON'T FIT INTO ANY OF THESE ROLES!!! Instead my Characters are generally reinforcement nuker types aka Tacticians. For example my Drow Feylost Death Domain Cleric she can cause large amounts of damage in various ways but she only heals the team as a last resort otherwise she tries to stay in the back/side and snipe her attacks at the maximum limit of her range. Only getting in close when absolutely necessary. My High Elf Sage Ranger with Deft Explorer, she can do close damage but similarly to my Cleric she mainly uses ranged attacks (eventually will be Drakewarden, so will have a Drake aiding her) and uses the rest of the party as meat shields. My High Elf Gate Warden Druid she switches between melee and range but only jumps in using melee at crucial moments (eventually will choose Cloud of Spores subclass, which will give her more nuke capabilities) otherwise she primarily uses Acid Splash & Poison Spray Cantrips as well as similar spells to do AOE damage at maximum range. My Astral Elf Anthropologist Paladin she primarily tries flanking attacks while the rest of the party keeps the enemy occupied (unless are fairly low level bandits/enemies that group together only then does she take on being a front line attacker) eventually she will become an Oath of Conquest subclass and will continue flanking unleashing savage brutality but mostly even then have the party be the primary focus until the right moment to nuke the enemy. My Mountain Dwarf Runecarver background Wizard he also primarily focuses on AOE attacks/cantrips eventually will choose the School of Necromancy. But even then as Necromancy specialized then will work in the back summoning as many Undead as possible he can control and will send them in to overwhelm the enemy while still blasting with AOE stuff not caring if his undead also suffer since they can most times come back perfectly fine. But of course his Necromantic Army requires time to summon so will be in the back of the group most of the time. My Homebrew Half Moon Elf Half Frost Giant Planar Philosopher Barbarian, she too will be a flanker type. As for her subclass haven't quite decided yet. Anyway she has 2 cantrips at lvl 1 of Chill Touch & Frostbite using them to damage and slow the enemy as well as use her Longbow to deal attacks and when runs out of arrows or is too disadvantaged using it then will use her Maul to bash things from a flanking position.
Party idea: Mere male Fighter/arcane trickster rogue drow with blind fighting style, Dex focus (duel wielder default), expertese in history/arcana, and sentinal. Perhaps the healer feat and kit. Is a servant, acts like Niles from the Nanny. Drow high priestess moon druid. Proficient in perception, survival, and insight. Default battle plan is to concentrate on fog cloud/darkness and turn into a giant spider. Highest standing of the group but considers herself above most things others can do. Acts like Maggie Smith from Downton Abbey. Young drow priestess fiend warlock with aggonizing blast and devil's sight. Has proficiencies and spells for social interaction. Has utility spells and fireball. Most motivated towards new goals. Acts like Lucy from I love Lucy.
Personally, I would split battlefield control into two parts: Firstly, there's what I personally mean when I say "battlefield control", which is controlling the battlefield itself in some way, such as creating hazards on the field or opening up more routes for movement. Secondly, there's crowd control, which is focused around things like stuns, forced movement, silencing, 'n' similar effects. For me, battlefield control is utility, whilst crowd control is support, specifically indirect support. On a similar note, I think that indirect support is something which isn't talked 'bout enough with respect to DnD. Indirect support includes things which aren't often included in typical discussions o' support. To use another genres o' games, class-based shooters, as an example, pick-classes are indirect support. Their primary role is to pick-off specific targets that are either valuable or have low-health, thus providing an advantage to their team, which supports the team indirectly. Snipers are a good example o' pick-classes. Another form o' indirect support is large, low-damage AoE effects. These effects are rarely the main source o' damage against an enemy, but they can often mean that the main damage dealer needs one or two fewer hits to secure a kill, allowing the team to get more kills with the same number o' attacks. These effects usually come with secondary bonuses which often overlap with CC, further cementing 'em as forms o' indirect support. There are other forms o' indirect support, but those three (CC, picking, 'n' low-damage AoE) are simultaneously some o' the least obviously support, as well as being extremely common. All are present in DnD to some degree, even if less-so than in other games. Whilst indirect support doesn't heal or directly buff allies, it make the damage-dealing characters in the party more effective at their role, as well as making the role easier, so I personally believe that the role should be included when having discussions 'bout the role o' support.
this may be a hot take, but IMO Support and Utility are the most powerful roles. So much of 5e theorycrafting is about creating a powerful beatdown, but if you look at Critical Role as an example the most impactful member of Vox Machina was Scanlan for his utility, and the most impactful member of the Mighty Nein was Caduceus for his support AND utility.
My genielock (air genasi djinni chain pact) is dipping into rogue and took the shadow touched feat, so she has invisibility and greater invis, the tiny magic bottle, and a familiar who can also become invisible. Yeah, she's got 20 CHA and hella eldritch blast damage, but she just may be the ultimate infiltration build. Also took Mask of Many Faces, which is always fun to have. But for an assassin warlock, she's as non-edgy and un-angsty as possible, she just wants to see the world and find her dad, and is a (literally) bubbly valley girl type who learned to be sneaky because she's a nosy gossip haha
I think the several different roles is the thing I struggle with. I want to help my team, do the cool things I can do etc, but I don’t want to dominate the table either. I often pick classes/characters who have versatility and often find that I end up being the best in a lot of scenarios doing stuff. I don’t do stuff all the time because I don’t want to dominate the play, but people ask me to do stuff once they know I am good at it... I now just DM so I don’t have to worry about this, but I’d really like to play at some point- this dynamic just puts me off.
One thing that needs to be emphasized with the Front Line (or the "Big Stupid Fighter, as I think of them, no matter size, intelligence, or class): they need to be *sticky*. They must have some answer to the monsters going "I'll just ignore you and go hit the ones you're trying to protect". And one Opportunity Attack is not enough for that. Nor can you rely on there always being a choke point (or you having control of that choke point). And I say that as someone who's *fond* of being the BSF, even if I tend towards Support, just because I also want to always be able to contribute.
17:54 "Oh yes, is that so Wilhelm? Why don't you bring River with you? Oh you can't because she's too scared to go around doing risky things. Yes Bruce, I don't need training in Arcana, you are Arcana"
Recently had a game where my UA dragonborn monk was one of the primary Beat Down role in the group. The rogue and wizard also contributed, though their damage was reliant on other party members or spell slots. Best moment was one person in the party saying: "Well, the monk killed everything else already, so we should be safe to take a rest."
"Which role does your character fit into?"
Moon druid: yes
@@yueffstueff6542 That's what the puppy form is for.
I was literally about to make this comment 🤣
Tortle Moon Druid that skimps on Constitution/Dexterity in favor of Charisma.
@@yueffstueff6542 I'm about to do that and I'm too hyped
I raise you any high level artificer
"The character you want to play will be able to lean into various roles..."
Good sir, you underestimate my incompetence.
I like how tells you it's what you want to play
I love being the support. Throwing haste on the paladin as a sorcerer, bless the barbarian as a cleric, inspire as a bard and then watch my party go to town is the best feeling.
I also love being the support role. I find a lot of people don’t always go for that, probably because they’re only helping and not getting the big damage in themselves. But I don’t mind. I know they only hit, or stayed in the fight, or made their saving throw because of me.
Divine Soul Sorcerer X/Hexblade Warlock 2 was a great mix. A little offense from Warlock (which, four Eldritch blasts plus my charisma mod was not little by any means) and twinning Haste on the Fighter and Druid was often how I spent my time. Loved it.
i too like buffing before going to town
i actually think towns are hardest dungeons
I love Slow - I seem to get really lucky rolls with it and it makes a massive difference for the frontline characters so they can shine
Bringing crowd control too as support. Keep the minions off the squishy back line along with buffing the front line.
I've always respected clerics, but rarely played them as my main character. After playing DDO and saving multiple parties' arses (nevermind taking on quests above our level), they've become more entertaining for me than any tank or frontline role. You literally are the one who's saving member's arses and protecting everyone, while protecting yourself at the same time.
😇👍
They get to the 7th role ,
AHH THE NEGOTIATOR ...GENERAL KENOBI
The negotiator: *enters* Hello there !
@@siragon756 *Greivous*: General Kenobi!
The negotiations were short.
Agressive negotiation
@@DunsmoreFamily what are “aggressive negotiations”?
Barbarian: I would like to investigate how well this axe cuts through his skull.
DM: You need to roll for attack first...
Does a Barb/Rogue get to take 10 from reliable talent for that check?
I often let the « support » player who Hasted me Roll the attack or damage roll as a way to show how valuable his action was.
that is a REALLY cool idea, gonna steal that next time i get hasted
That's really cool!
I like that!
Not all heroes wear capes.
I definitely see where you're going and like that idea, but personally I play s lot of support and would find that slightly condescending or unnecessarily time consuming. It's definitely nice if the other player appreciates it though :)
17:43 pro tip from a new DM, if you look in the PHB under chapter 7 page 178, if your players become stuck you can have one of them make a wisdom check to have a gut feeling of what course of action to follow. I use this whenever my players become unsure what to do.
Not even INT to think things through. Just follow your instincts.
This is awesome 😎
Yes, the classic Planescape Torment's "something tells you" tool
"Play the character you want to play" is lovely advice, unfortunately I am compelled to not be the same class as anyone else. Fortunately, I have two dozen character concepts already planned so I always manage to play something I want to.
lol same, I have so many characters in my back log that im prepared to play anything the party needs. Sometimes im happy when a character of mine dies so I can select one that might fit better with the party comp.
With the subclasses, two characters of the same class can be drastically different. But regardless, every class (minus ranger) can be awesome!
Yes, but as someone who also has dozens of character concepts waiting to be played, are really ever able to play the one you were most excited for?
The curse of the forever DM.
@@andrewpeli9019 it's not even about that with me, it's just a source of incredible irritation/anxiety for me playing as the same class (or race, but to a lesser extent). But then again, I am waiting on an OCD assessment 😅
Ah yes, revivify and heal, spells that take away those really nasty status effects like dying and dead =P
I mean, we all know, that death is the best CC.
The “Kick me” sign
The enemy remover
The Swiss Army...army
The stumbling block chisel
The genius
The conflict avoidance system
The snoop
The *SEXY* one.
me as a mystic
@@xxXXRAPXXxx Falls into conflict avoidance system (or as i chose to call it, C.A.S. (fuck you Sims))
The enemy can't fight you while lost in the passion of love (or just horny)
@@rompevuevitos222 LoL makes me think of The Book of Erotic Fantasy from 3.5. Nothing takes down the enemies quite like a Mass Orgasmic Vibrations spell.
@@DazraelArianos Captain Orgasmo sends his regards.
I still think it’s really important to ask ahead what the party looks like not just for balance but I don’t wanna step on people’s toes with how I’m going to roleplay my character
True
Agreed. I'm playing a Rogue this game because my group decided to shuffle roles around this time and no one else picked this up. (I normally play magic artillery.)
100% agree. it feels like a bit of an omission from the video tbh >.>
You can both be part of a Rogue type and the ranged Blaster by rolling up an Artillerist Artificer. You may not necessarily have Stealth, but you will be able to open locks, remove traps, etc.
that's so true
when a friend of mine made a bard to act as a negotiator and utility, both roles that i would do as a shadow sorcerer, I decided then to play as a pugilist battlemaster and be the frontline for my party, so she could have this spotlight in those situations
Monty, I can’t express how much respect I have for you’re relentless commitment to the hoodie. It’s not just attire, it’s a lifestyle.
Keep it up, homie.
"No single player is going to be able to cover all of the different party roles..."
Paladin/Hexblade: "And I took that personally."
Paladin Hexblade is pretty poor as a support character IME, good damage dealer and good frontliner but skill and utility inept.
@@richardwhaler8717 Depends on what spells you take from Warlock. I tend to take utility spells from Warlock as well as Invocations that give me leveled spells as at-wills like Detect Thoughts.
@@thetimebinder warlock utility stuff isn't that great though, and with so few spells known, and the lack of spellslots you're kind of handicapping yourself spending them on utility that doesn't upcast well. Plus lack of ritual casting is big drawback for trying to be utility as a lock. And none will help you navigate through the woods or avoid an ambush.
IMO the closest you can get to "do it all" is Fey Ranger (add wis to social skills and some extra proficiencies) + Moondruid (WS can cover physical stuff and tanking, spells for utility & support) depending on the level breakdown could use Ranger archery for DPS. Though a Scout Rogue x totem Barbarian is up there as well (6 sets of Expertise, extra proficiencies from Barbarian, rage & Evasion for tanking..)
My Tabaxi Gloomstalker Ranger covered a lot... in very specific ways. Mostly because he was stealthy (Tabaxi Gloomstalker.. Cloak of Elvenkind) and highly mobile.
"Shit the Druid is down, why is the druid down? Ok I'm not attacking this round, run over there, pick him up run out."
"Oh the Sorcerer is on the floor... again? Druid is busy with a concentration spell. Run over Pick up sorcerer."
His main role was actually high mobility beatdowns.
"No, you don't get to run away and heal coz I'm going to chase you down and spank you."
I thought I was going to be a heal bot when I chose cleric. I'm damage, utility, tank, and healer. Clerics are pog.
I just started playing again after having not played since 4e. I wanted to play support, focusing on healing, so I went Life Domain cleric with a Druid dip for Goodberry. I have, most combats, been much closer to damage and tank, with back up utility. Healing has been pretty far down on my list of priorities, tbh, especially since our DM has been averaging one combat between long rests.
Before watching: having a crappy work day.
*Sees new dungeon dudes video
"Thank God it's Thursday"
THIS
Is it Thursday yet?
I stopped asking "What do we need?" when it's my turn to make a character, because I got sick of being quasi-assigned a character class and ask "What do we have?".
Don't ask at all. Just make the character that you want to play. It makes for some super funny campaigns. We once had a party where we had 4 rogues and 1 sorcerer. It was nuts! We also had another one shot where everyone was a full caster: 1 cleric, 2 warlocks, a bard, and a mystic. We didn't need a frontline, because our high initiatives led to us wiping half the enemy forces on the first turn of combat, provided that the 3 face characters hadn't sweet talked their way past hostilities.
I've only been a player twice (both campaigns still going currently) and both times I waited to pick last so I could be the "well what are we missing?" character. If I ever play in another campaign, I'm playing what I want without asking.
@@carsonrush3352 How has this worked out for you roleplay-wise? In my experience not discussing who you play and especially your motivations and ideals can easily lead to the party just not working together and splitting up.
@@carsonrush3352 This sounds fun!
I lile that approach - what do we have, what roles do you have and which roles donyou have?
4 man combo? EZ. Artificer - Armorer, Artificer -Artillerist, Artificer - Battlesmith, and Artificer - Alchemist. Your entourage consists of metal dogs, walking turrets, flying cats and WAY too many magic items.
Twilight cleric + Peace Cleric is pretty much unbeatable. Slap those two on any team and watch them Roll any encounter. Clerics broke dawg
@@brannenpfister2579 true story. A whole party of clerics with different domains would kill it in any campaign
The all-wizard party and the all-cleric party would like to know your location.
@@brannenpfister2579 Clerics are well-known to be the most powerfull class in DnD. I think that Twilight domain is most powerfull ofc and then it's a draw between Life and Peace and would place Forge or Tempest on the fourth.
@@zgstudiogames3206 life domain sucks, phb summon spells are what is strongest, a third level conjure animals can do 100+ dpr on its own easily
I've often thought about the fun of a small party made up solely of bards- a band, if you will. But through the various colleges, they actually are able to cover down on the various roles and compliment each other's skills and abilities.
I LOVE this idea!!! Boom! there is your Bowie Bard.
I now it's a year later so you probably won't respond be please explain how the hard can fill any role beyond Face, Investigator and Infiltration? And why want you'd do if the bard just went whispers with expertise in investigation and just did all 3 in one character?
I really need help understanding a bard because I can only see them as the most limited class
@@kingduckie9135 Valor/Swords bard for the combat roles. Lore bard for extra utility (extra skills + additional magical secrets. Bards already have great utility, so it's not even necessary). They all get bardic inspiration, but if you want even more support, maybe an eloquence bard for improved inspirations (or another lore bard to steal some cleric spells).
There you have it. Creation, Glamour etc. also have their uses. Bards can basically do anything.
Basically, magical secrets can cover almost everything.
@@SaladSomeone I don't really get it though because everything that can do any other class does better
@@kingduckie9135 Bards are a jack of all trades, master of none. They can do literally everything, but someone can probably do it better. That doesn’t mean they’re incompetent in that area, though. They can still be very good at the role they’re filling.
Tough one
Smart one
Quiet one
There's your basis
* Sassy one
You forgot the face
Red at OSP is proud of you
@@NightmareDetective some D&D parties ain't got a face and it shows
Red at OSP is proud of you
Usually play the mad one
Playing a sorcerer in the campaign I'm currently in. I'm filling so many roles right now due to my other two party members being extremely combat oriented (opting for damage and tankiness rather than control). I may not be dealing the most damage but that twinned haste combined with the battlefield control that sorcerers have as well as the social skills from charisma makes me really glad I played a sorcerer.
I feel this! Right now, playing a cleric alongside a monk/rogue, barbarian, and fighter. Rogue is great for certain exploration and stealth style infiltration but oh boy do I feel like i'm juggling a lot of hats
Host, Music Guy, Guy-who-pays-for-food, Guy with Booze, Weed Guy, 2nd Uninvited Weed Guy...
Just started playing an Armorer Artificer and it's incredibly fun being both the damage absorbing tank AND the big brain support. While I don't have as big a health pool as a Barbarian or Paladin would, I have so many tools and spells at my disposal to mitigate or ignore damage that it ends up not mattering much.
This is why I love artificer
I'm about to join a campaign as a hill dwarf armorer and I have an 18 in con and heavy armor master. It's going to be beautiful.
@@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131 so no die?
@@jacktom3799 yup. I just wade into the enemies and say 'try to kill me,' but they can't.
@@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131 makes sense
most D&D parties I have been in has been like: 1 person is the Support and the Utility, 3-4 people are Front Liners/The Beat Down, and one person is literally everything else.
Yep.
celestial warlock as support, utility, with a hint of investigator, along with infiltrator via pact of chain.......
P.S.: Beatdown via Eldritch Blast, a literally one man army
My character is the genius and beat-down
Aint that the truth
So I'm playing my first game, & as a druid I turned into a dog to cheer up a sad kid, he ended up actually telling me why he was sad, & that led to the druid finding out there's a cave in the woods that can enter a mansion other than the actually entrance... we are inside & now we wait...
ah, the phandalin part of lost mines of phandelver can be resolved in this way too.
That is awesome
I was J U S T researching this topic earlier today!
Normally I would tell people to stop reading my mind but you dudes are welcome to keep doing it
Legit! I’ve been looking for a video like this for the past week!
Then the dungeon dudes show up*: “No problem, man. We’ve got you. We’ll upload this video right now.”
Pretty cool. I’ve been playing an Oath of Devotion Paladin in a party with a druid, a wild magic sorcerer, and a monk. Now I realize we don't have to force our characters to cover every base. We just have to be smart with an additional skill or two we can be good at/lean into.
*when your party only has three people*
well boys, we better learn to muilti-task
And Drakkenheim shows us all how 3 can get it done! 🤓
I'd be interested in a video of your guy's four man party combos. That'd be a fun brainstorming video.
Seconded.
And since you guys asked us to, here are a few combos. I'm doing trios or duos instead as a mental exercise.
1. Paladin for Front Line, Beat Down, and Negotiator
2. Lore Bard for Investigator, Utility, and Support
3. Monk with Criminal Background (looking back to 1e) for Utility and Infiltrator/Explorer
1. Moon Druid for Beat Down, Support, and Infiltrator/Explorer
2. Battle Smith Artificer for Front Line, Utility, and Investigator
1. Barbarian or Fighter for Front Line and Beat Down
2. Sorcerer and/or Warlock for Support and Negotiator
3. Ranger or Arcane Trickster Rogue for Utility, Investigator, and Infiltrator/Explorer
And you can pretty much put a Cleric anywhere, depending on the details.
Which role is the "Betray the party to attempt to seduce Strahd" role?
A new encounter played by the DM.
the one that do not play next game :P
The Munchkin
Not funny person who relies on memes too heavily as opposed to original role playing, who screws over their own party just to make an overused joke
That would probably be a different take on the Negotiator. Don't advise playing that though
"So which role does your character fit into?"
Wizard: Yes
Bard: Hey wizard thats my line!
I actually agree with this. But a party of 4 wizards can all pick schools and spells that lean them more towards filling one of those roles, which would make really dynamic gameplay. I would so be here for an evoker, diviner, illusion, and necromancer campaign.
@@DungeonDudes Don’t forget Bladesinger, 27 armor class without actual armor is really usefull
@@DungeonDudes as slimee mentioned Bladesinger. I think the main difficulty with all wizards is social, cause no charisma kinda hurts. I mean spells help somewhat but not all the way?
early on single target damage will suffer heavily. Magic missile is just not sufficient - and after a few casts you are stuck with firebolts :P
@@geniumme2502 the spells enhanced ability and skill empowerment could probably go a long way. Especially when the 4 theoretical wizards have so many slots between each other.
Artificers be like: I'm everything, what do we need?
"So what does a redemption paladin do?"
Sit down while I heal the bartender and convince the tavern to ignore the bandit I just cleaved then smited to hell
Don't forget that I'm going to do this while standing in front of all the enemy swords for everyone and using my reaction to negate that fireball to the wizard's face.
@@MrZAP17 but what is the wizard going to use their reaction for
@@robertbartley2409 Drinking, most likely. Gotta put that virgin insecurity somewhere since the Chad Paladin just chadded so hard.
By your definition, I fall into the utility classification. My bard's most used spell is prestidigitation and she constantly amuses the party with the inventive ways she comes up with to use it in combat. For example, we once fought a necromancer who attacked us by summoning a ghost wyvern, and she used prestidigitation to make the necromancer smell like roast meat. The DM was so amused by it that she gave the wyvern concentration checks every round for the rest of the fight, and if it failed it would attack the necromancer instead.
We love you Dungeon Dudes!
I can't believe you've committed suicide! Why. Why. Why have you committed suicide?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It hurts!
@@DevAndVic2022 Isn't that cheating the public?
@@HotRossBuns yes. Yes it is.
0:00 Sponsor
0:50 Intro
2:00 Why roles are important
5:12 Front liner
7:19 The Beat down
11:08 Utility
13:00 Support
15:27 Investigator
19:03 Negotiator
22:26 Infiltrator/Explorer
25:31 Conclusion
Doing the good work 🙏
@@kellenbigmanWouldn't an artificer/fae wanderer be able to fulfill all of these roles? Front liner=artificer, The Beat Down=artificer supplemented with ranger, utility=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Support=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Investigator=artificer, negotiator=fae wanderer and finally Infiltrator/Explorer=mostly ranger supplemented with artificer, because they get disguise self.
@@jugglejunk your point? Why are you replying to me? I was merely appreciating the above time map of the video.
That said... No single character can be all of those at the same time bud. Besides, as long as you're aware of those roles needing to be filled by the party as a whole is the important bit. Who cares how it gets done, as long as it's achieved.
@@kellenbigman I appreciate his comment too. You know how sometimes you can have an idea that you just have to share with someone else (even if they didn't ask for it)? This is a similar case, where I thought that it could work as a build that can cover any role in a pinch. To me there's an 8th role that of the all rounder/pinch filler/enabler, who can jump to fill in/assist in any off the other roles or make the specialist in 1 of the other roles even better at what they do. (Say if the specialist that normally does the job, having extra redunduncy is useful.)
What do you think?, could an artificer/fae wanderer ranger be build to be a good all rounder/pinch filler/enabler? What might you do differently?
@@jugglejunk If you're asking what I think: I don't care.
You seem really interested in it though so good for you chief. I hope you find a group as excited about your really niche interest as you are.
"Okay, I think I got this. Pretty One, Strong stupid one, one with weird powers."
"I can spawn mini me's!"
"Terrrrrific"
“I prefer handsome”
“I’m not stupid”
“Gaaueinsgekhnskw”
“Never mind, you’re all stupid”
dm:"soo what are you?"
Sorcadin Hexblade: "Yes"
Someone wrote a similar joke about wizards and about bards. And I disagreed. But I can absolutely get behind this one haha
nothing good realy :P just everything better than everyone else.. until i get out of fuel :P
I mean it depends on levels, we talkin just a few in sorcerer? If so then not much exploration to be found there sadly
Wtf did I just read XDDDD
@@geniumme2502 someone wrote about moon druids as well
I wanted to get my friends to do an all Artificer party... 4 characters, each a different subclass. If you look at the subclasses of Artificer, they really cover a large part of what you need. Alchemists can be support, Artillerists can be your blasters, Battle Smiths can do damage and exploration and Armourers can be your front-liners.
Also, they're all utility, are commonly proficient in Tinkerer's Tools (and Thieves tools), so they can do most of the roles.
Finally... you've got a party of mad scientists running around and how cool is that?
Regardless of your character class/subclass or spell load-out, you can always be an effective party "healer" by simply buying a medicine kit, taking the medicine skill and/or taking the healer feat. Rogues have tons of skills they to spare, and fighters get extra feats as they advance, for example.
My Sorcerer is the sudo-healer of the group between proficiency with an alchemist and herbalism kit to make potions and having the Healer feat. We have two paladins and even a Cleric (not the full party, just included) with mostly healing spells, but I think I've more often than not taken time to heal everyone outside of combat while the other two do so during it.
4:48 "Video games have a VERY strict tank-healer-DPS dynamic"
99.9% of the games I've played for the past 30 years:
My 1st level Human Monk looking over at my group of a Tiefling Sorcerer with only fire spells, and a Gnome Ranger that only uses a crossbow.
Really hope I survive to level 3.
As someone playing a Human Monk (lvl 6 by now) let me tell you...
Monks are very versitile, everybody thinks monks are like boring to play but the RP potencial is GOD like, also at level 3 you are gonna be a life saviour (more than 30 ft speed is super useful too), at 5th level you can flip social and battle encounters with Stunning Strike ☆ Good luck
Every character, if played correctly, is a utility.
How do you know ... how do you know exactly what video I’m looking for before I start looking for it ?
For real, for real, I have been looking for a video like this for the past week. The Dungeon Dudes know what’s up!
You guys mention the investigator and I think about the campaign I'm playing in where no one has an Intelligence higher than 9.
Sounds like the party in journy to the west.
That's one way to roll. My Int.20 wizard is pretty sure the best stuff is kept behind secret doors, though.
This happens sometimes in the Adventurers League and it's painful for one session. I could not handle a campaign like that 😬
I'm DMing for family, all with very little experience with d&d. My quiet, introverted sister who loves music chose to play a bard, while my extroverted husband went with a naive, social bumbler of a cleric. The number of times already where the cleric has put his foot in his mouth before the bard has figured out what to say is beginning to annoy the rest of the party.
LOL Sounds like the bard needs to have a heart to heart with the paladin
This is adorable and awesome.
"You won't see a lot of support in Druids"
*Laughs in Dreams Druid*
Seriously. My group just got into a 5v5 coliseum fight, festival week at the current city, and I’m doing the most damage while also healing/buffing/moving party members out of danger.
bro, same. i wish people gave this subclass more credit bcs it rocks.
You guys are seriously helping my campaign so much. Great work!
*Gets excited in Moon Druid
Me and my brother are playing a campaign. I'm a Gnome Artillerist Artificer. He's a Aarakocra Barbarian. His character and mine essentially developed a baby harness so that he can carry me while he flies and I just fire my flamethrower and cast ranged spells while in the air. Its great.
your point about "who's the beatdown" reminded me of a low level game where me (a paladin trained in athletics using sword and board for max defense) and my fellow fronliner (a dual wielding, offense focused figther) were getting wrecked by a gargoyle tanking our OA to do hit and fly and negating my friends multiattacking strategy . Cue me dropping my warhammer and using a readied action to grapple it with my free hand. I was doing 0 damage from this point on, but the figther got to leverage his build to do his 2 attacks round uninterrupted and finish it off.
Yes! i'm starting as a player in my first campaign next week and i've been thinking about my role in the party all week!
The negociator is not so much the high charisma dude but the charismatic player.
Agreed. My all time favorite character’s lowest stat was his charisma. Yet my party referred to me as the defacto leader despite us being equals. More often than not I was either the one to strategize the party, or negotiate through dialogue.
Our team is consisted of a ranger, a barbarian, a rogue, and me, the Wizard. We're playing CoS. I'm forced to be the support, the healer, and I'm taking two levels in Artificer just to be able to make my team's weapons magical, and get cure wounds. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
I'm a paladin/bard who is finishing up curse of strahd, and oooh buddy, you are in for it.
Why the heck isn't your bard doing it? Everything in the bard's entire kit screams mostly utility and support. Your wizard should be damage and crowd control. I think you need to talk to the the other players in your party and DM regarding what you and the other players want to do as members of the party and that you feel like your being pressured to do something you don't want to.
@@gamecavalier3230 Oh whoops, that changes things, yeah not sure what should happen in that case, the party didn't pick any support roles at all. Either way i think a conversation should still happen regarding what roles people are covering if the wizard player doesnt want to be a healer.
@@gamecavalier3230 Possibly, but that's assuming that the ranger doesn't want to use their limited spell slots on things like hunters mark and such. Also i've heard that the CoS module can be kinda brutal. Haven't played it yet though.
@@Zarkonem barb, as in, Barbarian. Should've been more specific
The pretty one,
The weird one with the freaky power
And the big tough stupid one
I’m laughing at how my party fits this.
Me: divine souls sorcerer
My sister: Ancestoral Barbarian
My Sister in law; Shadow Monk.
Team Four Star. Nice
My four member party:
- twilight cleric;
- oath of vengeance paladin;
- bear totem barbarian;
- enchantment wizard.
It's a really solid party and pretty much covers all the roles you mentioned.
Divine Soul Sorcerer
College of Eloquence Bard
Chronothurgy Wizard
Echo Knight Fighter
This is the party of 'Why did I agree to DM'.
@@diversezebra6754
Interesting. It's a party of four S-tier subclasses for sure, but could be overwhelmed by numbers.
@@Teaandephemery Possibly, though a few well picked spells and the casters can easily support a Hasted party and Spirit Guardians which allows the Fighter to shine and finish off enemies between himself and the Echo while the Time Wizard can pepper supporting fire with cantrips, an occasional reroll against incoming critics, and if needed toss a big boy spell. I ran this team against a massive dungeon crawl to test the ability and it was regrettably easy to conquer it.
My current 4 person party:
Hexblade Warlock/Fighter (me)
Swords Bard
College of Scribes Wizard
Abjurer Wizard/Knowledge Cleric
Totally wanna play a "Utility" Rogue with abit of "The Beat Down" character, my idea is:
1) Go Mastermind.
2) Get Expertise in Thieves Tools & Sleight of Hand (Mainly to disarm traps & open locks.)
4) Get the Alert Feat so i go first in combat most of the time.
5) Sneak Attack from a safe distance anything the other melee players are locked with and then give Advantage on attack roles with my Help (Now a Bonus Action) so if i don't kill the enemy then no biggie, i "soften them up" for my buddy who's gonna finish them off next with their next attack that now has advantage.
Alternatively i could go with a Thief that took the Healer feat so i can "be the field medic" and patch everyone up with a Bonus Action when the main healer is down, but it feels abit more situational.
I just recently got into D&D. It was a jump off the deep end, all new players (including me) and I volunteered to be DM. Your videos have been great in getting me ready and putting me in the right mindset to play/lead the game. THANK YOU!
These guys are great, but Matt Colville is The Dungeon Master on RUclips. He can really help. Got aw whole series called Running the Game based solely on being a DM.
@@rokkkrinn2793 thanks for the heads up! Found Matt Colville's channel/videos. I'll definitely add that channel to my resources for tips&tricks. Thanks again!!
I was just thinking about this?? Y'all know us too well, what's your secret
Maybe it’s divination magic
Maybe it’s maybelline
Seriously, these dudes' scrying level is expert
I love my battlefield controlling magical Swiss Army knife. I do next to no damage and I enjoy every minute of it. I’ll take spoiling the DM’s plans and buffing my friends over rolling big damage dice all day long.
A whole party of Warlocks. A Hexblade, a Fiend, a Celestial, and an Archfey. They have all the basic covered, and they all have devilsight... gets pretty crazy when they cast darkness on the Hexblade's sword
gets tome for utility, get chains for infiltration, gets talisman for support, gets bladepact for frontline/beatdown. invocations for investigation and naturally high charisma for negotiator....
A party may have it roles defined and prepared, but on paper all plans can be functional, until the shit hits the fan, and you hace to improvise, then its mostly plausible everyone has to improvise and will commit mistakes, even the most veteran would fail into this issue. The thing is to play well, but mostly to have fun.
67 likes and zero dislikes
I like this ratio
I can say they got at least to 169 likes with no dislikes.
When I'm helping new players create a character, I provide them with the following five combat roles, to see what they want to do:
FRONTLINER: Almost always a melee combatant, Frontliners can usually do decent damage, but their core feature is their ability to tank hits, whether via AC or HP or more unusual defenses. The Frontliner is really the only mandatory role (even if it's handled by a summoned monster or cohort or something) because all those enemy attacks have to go SOMEWHERE.
STRIKER: Strikers do a lot of damage, but are relatively fragile compared to Frontliners. They usually needs support (buffs, flanking, someone else to take the hits) to reach their full potential, but when they do, they tend to melt foes.
SHOOTER: Shooters do damage at range, either with a bow, a firearm, thrown weapons or spells. Since they don't worry as much about positioning as a melee combatant, they can focus on scoring kills, and they can afford to be a little more fragile (though they aren't necessarily, especially if they are a martial class). They aren't usually able to contribute much beyond reducing foe HP, however. Blaster mages and Eldritch Blast fit in here.
SUPPORT CASTER: Support Casters use magic or similar abilities (bardic inspiration, sharing teamwork feats) to heal and buff allies, increasing the team's overall firepower and survivability.
OFFENSE CASTER: Offense Casters are not necessarily concerned with doing damage via their spells or similar abilities (that would be a Shooter), but rather on inconveniencing and weakening the enemy as much as possible. Debuffs, curses and status effects fall here, as well as battlefield control abilities like Black Tentacles and any Wall spell that limit the enemy's ability to move where they want to.
I wonder what do you guys thing about D&D 5e compared to previous versions? I've only played 3.5 back in the day, but I genuinely feel they stripped the game a lot and took out some amazing gameplay elements. Am I not familiar enough with the 5th edition or is there some truth to this?
you guys rock! DnD has kept me and my friends in touch during the pandemic, and your videos have taught us newbies SO much, and in such a fun way. Thanks for the awesome content!
'we don't have a cleric, what are we gonna do?'
Pray for help? Oh, wait....
I've seen bards (barely) fulfill the role, but I've also seen battle clerics that didn't heal anyone too...
☝😅
Bards, Druids, and Paladins all make empirically better "healers" than Clerics in 5e. Cleric is probably the most versatile class after the Wizard, in that they can functionally fit the largest variety of roles effectively, especially at low and mid levels, and particularly with buffing and protecting allies, or dealing consistent and reliable damage.
@@dylandugan76 I can't speak to 5e, but my dedicated healing cleric from Dungeons & Dragons Online (3.5e ruleset) was unbeatable by anyone. That cleric could not only regeneratively heal in a small aura, they could power heal party members using individual spells and didn't need to use mass heals at all (it actually caused their spell points to drain quicker using mass heals). We did dungeons that were CR: 12 at level 10 or CR: 22 at level 20 for instance.
Did they just describe the 'A Team' :)
I mean, they're called "The A-Team" for a reason...
Swashbuckler Is my favorite Rogue subclass for exactly this reason. I can fight on the frontlines without too much worry thanks to my dex based higher AC, uncanny dodge, evasion, and cunning actions (bolstered by fancy footwork) keeping me out of direct harm, all while punishing foes that target my allies through my Panache. The additional ASI also frees me up to take another feat like Tough. With Rakish Audacity I can reliably deal heavy chunks of damage even when left alone. Investigation and infiltration come naturally to rogues and with the added emphasis that the subclass places on my charisma score, I'm even in a good situation to play the face. And of course, the added skill and tool proficiencies make utility a viable avenue too. Only thing I really struggle with as a Swashbuckler is the Support role, which with feats like Inspiring Leader or Magic initiate, can be dipped into as well.
It's really a complete package and if I'm ever at a loss for what I should play, Swashbuckler has become my go-to.
I came to the realization the other day that
My party is
4 dps tanks
1 utility warlock
Only one character has positive intelligence
And I bet you’ll never guess which one
We are starting a new camping tomorrow and only one of us, the cleric, is a spell caster. We have two fighters, a barbarian, and I am a pugilist. I'm excited to see how this goes.
So what I'm hearing is, if you're willing to be part of the team, anyone can be any of these roles
I remember my first 5e group. My bard was the tank and healer, since the other players played warlock, sorcerer, wizard and rogue...
I started my first campaign offering to choose class last and the others choose wizard, warlock, rogue, and sorcerer. I opted initially for paladin over bard, but with a grinner/musician background and I already multiclassed into bard 😁
One of my favorite combos in 5e is when a character that has great weapon master or sharpshooter has an attack roll buff like bardic inspiration or bless. Yes, they will succeed on dealing damage more often but they also take the chance more often because they know they have the support behind them. That’s really hard to quantify but that effect is very present and makes a BIG difference at the table.
Support players be loke thor.
"What hope do you have to defeat me"
"Me? Ah nah... Him though..." Cast Haste on the Barbarian that is already foaming at the mouth rage. "He can though."
I’m literally starting a game tomorrow, what a good time to see this
Grim Hollow...
Monsters? Check.
Harvest Monster Parts? Check.
Craft items from Parts? Check.
... So Basically it's Monster Hunter for DnD 5E? ;)
My character is a rune knight with Great weapon master and hex. It’s very fun to absolutely shred anything he touches, along with the added bonus of being able to redirect crits, Fire damage, and physical resistance
This video was very inspiring, a very clean idea sping in my mind: Classes define Combat Roles, while Background define Off-Combat Roles. Following a simple scheme like this can help players differentiate their character and the DM in making adventures to keep engaged all the players in the varies gameplay modes
One of my dms doesnt just ask for charisma checks for negotiating, it all depends on how we approach the conversation. He wants us to lie to him if we are gonna lie, etc. One of the best tense conversations I've ever had didnt have a single persuasion roll made when it came to the most important parts of the convo. It also means my charisma dumped monk can just be the face and help us get through a situation XD
I personally disagree with this approach. This is a game. From my perspective games should have rules, and the rules of this game is that the dice determine the outcome. I wouldn't ask someone to jump a 20 foot gap, so why is it fair to require the player to depend only on their ability to speak convincingly? They used to do this kind of thing 15+ years ago and it completely negated having a Charisma stat, making anyone that invested into the stat feel less useful.
I LOVE having my players engage in character, and reward their roll with benefits for good role-play, but it eventually should come down to the dice. You guys play what you all find fun, this is just another perspective.
@@diversezebra6754 I like what my dm does because it allows for us to be able to participate without having to invest in charisma, and it saves us from a potentially bad roll when it doesnt make sense (why would a bard with a +13 fail a persuasion roll on a nat 1 when what they ask for is very reasonable?) He has us make rolls when they are needed. If we push our luck with a request, he calls for a persuasion roll. My example in my original comment, if it was another dm, would've had us make probably 6 rolls when none realistically were needed aside from the 1 request that was pushing our luck. This is also a roleplaying game, and pushing us to be in character in this manner helps make the game more memorable. In a different game I play a charisma dumped monk and she had to (I volunteered) explain why this thing we were sent to scout out was suddenly not there anymore.(a bunch of shit happened and it blew up and we forgot to send word back because of other shenanigans. Oops) This was that same dm and I didnt have to make a roll and the moment was great because asking for a roll would've broken immersion and if I rolled badly it wouldnt really reflect how i actually explained things. It helps make to game feel more realistic. Otherwise the highest charisma person would be the only face because they have the best chances. There's a time and place for the 'face' and having a high charisma. It is a game, but dnd is a roleplaying game at the end of the day. His approach doesn't make charisma useless, it just incentivizes group participation.
It's the case of a dumb-ish player trying to manage a 20-Int pc. You can go for a bit of roleplay, but at the end of the day it's got to be dice. DnD, as good a game as it can be, is not a diceless. If you're after genuine roleplay, go for Amber or On Stage (a DnD and diceless games lover writing). Enjoy! 🤗
@@cristiananao294 oh I still like rolling dice, I just dont think it's necessary all the time
The class/role versatility in 5e is why this is my favorite system so far.
You can have a session 0 where your players all pick the roles they'll fill, and never discuss class/race choices even once. Then when they all show up for session 1, it could turn out all characters are the same class but are totally different characters, or every role is filled by a class that is completely unexpected, or you could literally never reveal what class everyone is playing.
Back in the day you had your fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric. Period.
Now your fighter could be a shadow monk teleporting around the battlefield; or a druid who shapeshifts into ferocious beasts; or an artificer gnome in a suit of arcanomechanical armor.
Your rogue could be a wizard using magic to investigate; or a warlock with a mysterious invisible familiar.
Your wizard can be an artificer unlocking the secrets of magic; or a warlock with a powerful tome that holds mysteries far greater than any wizard's spellbook.
Your cleric doesn't even have to exist.
Maybe your party is only 3 characters: a paladin, a sorcerer, and a druid. With those 3 classes you can cover the roles of frontliner, backup frontliner, face, ranged DPS, backup ranged DPS, scout, infiltrator, and have 3 healers.
The fact that almost every class can fill every role is why 5e is so great.
hear me out, imagine a party of 3 moon druids...
I've seen infiltrator rogues and rangers almost die so often, I just have the notion that the game of DnD does not support this game style. Being alone AND depending on die rolls? The risk outweights the rewards by a long mile. It's better to get into a place together and deal with whatever's coming at you as a team, rather than risking 1 PC to get who knows what info.
In a more narrative game, sure. Being an infiltrator is a lot "safer" since these type of games focus more on narrative functions. If you are an infiltrator, most often than not you'll come and the die roll would only represent how much info you've got
Obligatory "Who is the beatdown?" for my magic nerds.
Oh lol Monty referenced it right after I posted 😂😂😂
Concept: the divine gang (tm) with their attributes ranked in how well they do it.
Zealot barbarian: Front line, beatdown
Redemption paladin: Front line, support, beatdown
Peace cleric: support, utility, investigation, exploration
Divine soul sorcerer: HOLY FUCK THE BEATDOWN, support, negotiator.
Celestial warlock: beatdown, support, negotiator, infiltrator
Easiest way to have every role always covered, run all Clerics ezpz lemon squeezy.
I play a polearm wielding Bear Totem Barbarian/ Battle Master Fighter Bugbear who has a specialized bag on his back that holds my Gnome sister who's a Shepherd Druid. Yea... constantly gaining various hit-points by her Unicorn and Bear spirit abilities makes my Bugbear even more indestructible, pair that with an army of wolves following us around everywhere, we are a mobile destruction force. Not to mention she can cover with various ranged spells, while I defender her from melee attacks like brick wall. True sibling bonding :)
I've been playing since 1st Edition, and this was a top tier informational video! Well done, gentlemen!
How fking old are you?
@@cariri12 47
MY CHARACTERS DON'T FIT INTO ANY OF THESE ROLES!!!
Instead my Characters are generally reinforcement nuker types aka Tacticians.
For example my Drow Feylost Death Domain Cleric she can cause large amounts of damage in various ways but she only heals the team as a last resort otherwise she tries to stay in the back/side and snipe her attacks at the maximum limit of her range. Only getting in close when absolutely necessary.
My High Elf Sage Ranger with Deft Explorer, she can do close damage but similarly to my Cleric she mainly uses ranged attacks (eventually will be Drakewarden, so will have a Drake aiding her) and uses the rest of the party as meat shields.
My High Elf Gate Warden Druid she switches between melee and range but only jumps in using melee at crucial moments (eventually will choose Cloud of Spores subclass, which will give her more nuke capabilities) otherwise she primarily uses Acid Splash & Poison Spray Cantrips as well as similar spells to do AOE damage at maximum range.
My Astral Elf Anthropologist Paladin she primarily tries flanking attacks while the rest of the party keeps the enemy occupied (unless are fairly low level bandits/enemies that group together only then does she take on being a front line attacker) eventually she will become an Oath of Conquest subclass and will continue flanking unleashing savage brutality but mostly even then have the party be the primary focus until the right moment to nuke the enemy.
My Mountain Dwarf Runecarver background Wizard he also primarily focuses on AOE attacks/cantrips eventually will choose the School of Necromancy. But even then as Necromancy specialized then will work in the back summoning as many Undead as possible he can control and will send them in to overwhelm the enemy while still blasting with AOE stuff not caring if his undead also suffer since they can most times come back perfectly fine. But of course his Necromantic Army requires time to summon so will be in the back of the group most of the time.
My Homebrew Half Moon Elf Half Frost Giant Planar Philosopher Barbarian, she too will be a flanker type. As for her subclass haven't quite decided yet. Anyway she has 2 cantrips at lvl 1 of Chill Touch & Frostbite using them to damage and slow the enemy as well as use her Longbow to deal attacks and when runs out of arrows or is too disadvantaged using it then will use her Maul to bash things from a flanking position.
"A character who plays a caster, but does not have the Arcana skill." Wow... I felt that jab at Wrath there.
Party idea:
Mere male Fighter/arcane trickster rogue drow with blind fighting style, Dex focus (duel wielder default), expertese in history/arcana, and sentinal. Perhaps the healer feat and kit. Is a servant, acts like Niles from the Nanny.
Drow high priestess moon druid. Proficient in perception, survival, and insight. Default battle plan is to concentrate on fog cloud/darkness and turn into a giant spider. Highest standing of the group but considers herself above most things others can do. Acts like Maggie Smith from Downton Abbey.
Young drow priestess fiend warlock with aggonizing blast and devil's sight. Has proficiencies and spells for social interaction. Has utility spells and fireball. Most motivated towards new goals. Acts like Lucy from I love Lucy.
Monty's hair looks awesome in this video. Also I'm loving the shaggy beards.
Personally, I would split battlefield control into two parts: Firstly, there's what I personally mean when I say "battlefield control", which is controlling the battlefield itself in some way, such as creating hazards on the field or opening up more routes for movement. Secondly, there's crowd control, which is focused around things like stuns, forced movement, silencing, 'n' similar effects. For me, battlefield control is utility, whilst crowd control is support, specifically indirect support.
On a similar note, I think that indirect support is something which isn't talked 'bout enough with respect to DnD. Indirect support includes things which aren't often included in typical discussions o' support.
To use another genres o' games, class-based shooters, as an example, pick-classes are indirect support. Their primary role is to pick-off specific targets that are either valuable or have low-health, thus providing an advantage to their team, which supports the team indirectly. Snipers are a good example o' pick-classes.
Another form o' indirect support is large, low-damage AoE effects. These effects are rarely the main source o' damage against an enemy, but they can often mean that the main damage dealer needs one or two fewer hits to secure a kill, allowing the team to get more kills with the same number o' attacks. These effects usually come with secondary bonuses which often overlap with CC, further cementing 'em as forms o' indirect support.
There are other forms o' indirect support, but those three (CC, picking, 'n' low-damage AoE) are simultaneously some o' the least obviously support, as well as being extremely common. All are present in DnD to some degree, even if less-so than in other games. Whilst indirect support doesn't heal or directly buff allies, it make the damage-dealing characters in the party more effective at their role, as well as making the role easier, so I personally believe that the role should be included when having discussions 'bout the role o' support.
I’ve literally been looking for a video like this one for the past week. Then they publish it immediately after.
this may be a hot take, but IMO Support and Utility are the most powerful roles. So much of 5e theorycrafting is about creating a powerful beatdown, but if you look at Critical Role as an example the most impactful member of Vox Machina was Scanlan for his utility, and the most impactful member of the Mighty Nein was Caduceus for his support AND utility.
You guys are awesome I would love some more subclass videos on all the classes in Tasha's
My genielock (air genasi djinni chain pact) is dipping into rogue and took the shadow touched feat, so she has invisibility and greater invis, the tiny magic bottle, and a familiar who can also become invisible. Yeah, she's got 20 CHA and hella eldritch blast damage, but she just may be the ultimate infiltration build. Also took Mask of Many Faces, which is always fun to have. But for an assassin warlock, she's as non-edgy and un-angsty as possible, she just wants to see the world and find her dad, and is a (literally) bubbly valley girl type who learned to be sneaky because she's a nosy gossip haha
I think the several different roles is the thing I struggle with. I want to help my team, do the cool things I can do etc, but I don’t want to dominate the table either. I often pick classes/characters who have versatility and often find that I end up being the best in a lot of scenarios doing stuff. I don’t do stuff all the time because I don’t want to dominate the play, but people ask me to do stuff once they know I am good at it...
I now just DM so I don’t have to worry about this, but I’d really like to play at some point- this dynamic just puts me off.
One thing that needs to be emphasized with the Front Line (or the "Big Stupid Fighter, as I think of them, no matter size, intelligence, or class): they need to be *sticky*. They must have some answer to the monsters going "I'll just ignore you and go hit the ones you're trying to protect". And one Opportunity Attack is not enough for that. Nor can you rely on there always being a choke point (or you having control of that choke point).
And I say that as someone who's *fond* of being the BSF, even if I tend towards Support, just because I also want to always be able to contribute.
Yeah, boiii, new episode!!
17:54 "Oh yes, is that so Wilhelm? Why don't you bring River with you? Oh you can't because she's too scared to go around doing risky things. Yes Bruce, I don't need training in Arcana, you are Arcana"
Recently had a game where my UA dragonborn monk was one of the primary Beat Down role in the group. The rogue and wizard also contributed, though their damage was reliant on other party members or spell slots.
Best moment was one person in the party saying: "Well, the monk killed everything else already, so we should be safe to take a rest."