Battery Shelf full charge after 4 months. First time of Multiplus frequency shifting!
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- This is it, my friends: the first full charge of the battery shelf after the winter! OK, we're still in the last month of winter down here but I already have enough energy to fully charge the battery shelf with its three batteries and altogether 44kWh of storage!
Two things we need to watch out for: the three single BMSes, the Heltec BMS, the JK-BMS and the Overkill BMS in parallel and also the solar tilt system on the house roof which back-feeds 2kW of AC through the Victron Multiplus into the battery shelf. How will this react when the battery is full? Will the Multiplus increase the frequency and shut down the AC-coupled solar eventually? This will be the first test for this complete system! Lots to see and learn from all this...
How to set up your Multiplus for frequency shifting if you have AC-coupled solar connected in an off-grid system?
Victron Multiplus, Jack of all Trades and one of the best inverters out there.
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Heya, nice to see the battery shelf is still in perfect stat (balance stat) after 4 nonth's really nice.
Andy, this is exactly how my Deye 2000W micro-inverter behaves with MultiPlus-II installed in my campervan. It has 900Wp panels on roof but recent hot days when even nights were way above 23°C run mini-split AC overnight also and battery charge was constantly dropping.
I've got spare 450Wp panel but only 10 meters of DC-cablings severely limiting panel positioning. Now I can use proper 3x2.5mm2 camper cable which is 25 meters to position panel to most optimally to get charging up again!
For winter and longer periods of not so good sunshine considering to invest to light box trailer, equip it with three 500Wp bifacials on rails so that one panel is on roof, two folded on sides when moving and when stationary lifting side panels level with roof panel and tilt whole setup.
Btw, Deye is sold as Sol-Ark in USA, I've learned. Little confidence boost for the micro-inverter...
Thanks a lot for sharing. Very interesting, you can never have enough solar, right?
The Micro-Inverter I have uses the same hardware as the Deye. It is just re-branded.
Good to see how the MP2 regulated this “slack-bus control” Soon i will be testing the islanded (mains-failed) situation too.
Your fantastic content has helped me understand home power systems a lot better ,thanks for the effort put in ,cheers !
Thanks a lot for your feedback, Dave!
He hasn’t even touched home power at all. Have you seen him ever at his switch/fuse board?
Tank you Andy! for this video. The good weather is Back😃👍
Yes, plenty of power all of the sudden. It took maybe 2 weeks going from meeeh , just making it to BOOOAH, surplus of energy.
Andy, your DIY system runs better than the latest closed loop communications systems such as the SEPLOS. Great job.
It runs very well without any form of communication.
those closed loop systems sometimes is a complete mess. I recently got 2 new batteries with Junlee brand. Still can't make them to communicate with the inverter (I have Voltronic clone, called Axioma Energy), and not sure they communicate with each other via rs485. Manufacturer doesn't want to provide any information about the BMS, ADS settings, anything. Tried to crimp many variants of the can and rs485 cables. Still no luck. Still have Error61 which means - no communication.
@OffGridGarageAustralia Mmmmhhh, very good to know. I currently have a Freedom Won battery that is not communicating with the Sunsynk inverter and I've set parameters as per recommendation from the Freedom won manufacturer for those cases where there is no comms. Seems to be doing just fine.
@@kevinrtres my batteries have rs232 with rj12 (6pin) connector. So I ordered some rj12 and db9 rs232 connectors and is going to try to log in to the battery via that connection. RS485 port was no luck, but may be I'm just using the wrong pinout, as manufacturer didn't provided any info on that matter. Will try to use here instructions from Current Connected regarding theirs batteries and Voltronic inverters. If it will not work, the next step is to open the battery and void the warranty 😂😂
@@dmytromaruchok7225 Hi, that seems like a rather drastic step! Before you take that leap, what battery and inverter combo do you have?
If it's the same as mine ( Freedom Won and Sunsynk ) the pinouts for RJ45 cable using CAN port are Inverter pin 4 is CAN HIGH, pin 5 is CAN LOW. Battery pin 7 is CAN HIGH and pin 8 is CAN LOW. So you have to have a cable that connects 5 to 8 and 4 to 7.
Andy, you are delightful!
Nice Andy, nice something is working like expected and engineered!
Yes, I'm glad it all worked out like this. Wasn't quite sure if the Chinese micro inverter would actually shut down but it seems to work very well...
When i see my system and yours we both are using the Ferraries in the Solar Systems. Yes the price of Victron is high but when you have seen what i have seen you don't ask anymore about prices.Victron Base is nearby around a half hour of driving and i'm often enough there.
I think so too, it is worth the money. The quality is outstanding, so is their community and support. Plus the free VRM... unbeatable.
Especially the Multiplus is exceptional and can do pretty much everything.
I think it is not waiting for the 50 Hz, it is simply taking time to resync after dropping off. You should be able to also see a delay, if you connect the microinverter to AC. It will not switch on immediately. Some microinverters take more than 2 minutes to "sync" to the grid.
Yeah, OK, that could the case as well. It was the first time I have seen it so, more testing to understand better is underway.
Hey Andy, seriously, you should buy one of those whatumacallit and one of those thingymabons....😂
Thanks, Andy for sharing this with us. Nice to see it working as predicted.
I am in the states so seeing 50Hz as line frequency was something I was not aware of in Australia. I knew you used 240v for line voltage but did not know about the 50Hz. As you know, our line frequency is 60Hz here.
If you look at your electronic devices at home, you can see on most of them that they accept 110-240V and 50-60Hz. The reason for this is that US was an early adopter of electricity, thanks to Edison and Tesla, so when the engineers had realised that 240V and 50Hz was superior and the rest of the world catched on the US was already flooded with legacy 110V 60Hz systems and it would be too expensive to replace. Hence only US and half of Japan (because of occupation after WWII), as far as I know, are using 110V and 60Hz.
The same system works with 60Hz as well. Victron has the Multiplus for 120V split systems and 60Hz as well.
I heard the story that the US designed their power network on purpose on 110V and 60Hz to prevent people buying cheap Chinese appliances instead of the more expensive ones made in the US.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia probably wasn't a issue back, the other explanation above seems more plausible. Will look forward to the video later, although I've had frequency shifting working since February, but only comes into play if the grid goes down and the batteries are full, which is unlikely but I did test the system y turning the grid off.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia LOL, that is a good supposition but I believe the decision to go with 110/60 in the US pre dates the rivalry with China by just a few years!!!
after i moded my first 2 packs.. of course under 50 amps each . i can say bringing together small cells to packs is an extreme sport!!!! studs are so close
I thank you for your channel, it's been helpful to me
Great! Thanks for your feedback.
Thank you very much for this test. Good to see that the frequency control of AC inverters by the Victron Multiplus works very well.
As I have a Victron ESS system that of course works in parallel with the grid, I cannot do frequency control.
That brings me to the point I would like to mention.
The behaviour you mentioned at 13:40, that a Seplos BMS would tell the Solar charge controllers to throttle the power generation and only allow 10A, is not correct. That seems to me to be a "problem" with off-grid systems. I have never seen the power to my loads in the house or the excess feed throttled by the BMS. In my case, when my two batteries are full, they are throttled to 10A each. The power generated by the MPPT is used for the house and grid. The only limiting element is the power capacity of the Multiplus. My system with my two Seplos BMS 10C firmware 2.8 has been running perfectly for a year. I have only installed one NEEY balancer per battery ...and of course optimized the settings of the BMS parameters 😀
Thank you for this information. ESS and Off-grid are very different.
Thanks Andy, this is a VERY interesting one! Absolutely terrific! 👍
I’ll have to try my (old) AC inverter now sometime and see if it works as well. (It is supposed to shut off at about 52Hz.)
I’m also SUPER impressed with the accuracy of your Victron shunt after such a long time since a top of charge sync! What figures are you using for Peukert and charge efficiency in the Victron. TIA
Thanks Dave. Yeah, I was impressed with that too. Last year, the difference was a bit higher, like 2-3%.
I have all the settings with screenshots of my devices on my website here: off-grid-garage.com/my-settings/
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy, fabulous, Danke schön - virtually exactly the figures I use in the Victron BMV. (However I’ve never gone anywhere near that long without a top of charge sync, so that’s really very encouraging.)
"I love it when a plan comes together."
Yes, me too, I could watch this all day long. It is so interesting!
FWIW this Seplos behavior is a victron thing, not a Seplos thing. With Sol-ark (Deye) inverters, the max charge voltage from the BMS is respected from the inverter as a bus voltage. So while the batteries might accept 0 current, the inverter will still take solar to fully run the loads and have no current coming from the batteries.
That is also the case for Victron if connected to the grid and ESS is activated.
Not in an off-grid system though, which I have.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia deye works as described above in off grid mode as well. Really seems like victron
Second video today, first one was in german, can not get any better. Bombenfest, bombensicher.
This is when people does not have a life and living on yt 🙂. I’m enjoying also but when have some time for relax
That is my relaxation 😉
@@OffGridGarageAustralia could you please help me with solar batteries parameters?
Thanks Andy,i was watching this battery charginbg like an action movie hahaahah,You narrated it like it,fun video xD
Hehe, it was something like and action movie, so much happening at the same time. I'm really glad it all worked out the the frequency shifting is working correctly. I was a bit nervous.
Its great, Master....👍
Awesome information
While it seems to work and is probably enough for a garage, I think it'd drive me crazy when used to power the house as I like my clocks accurate. Quite a lot of home appliances with clocks use grid frequency as clock speed. While grid frequency does very slight shifts, it also uses some other compensation methods to stay stable on average. This micro grid will mess clocks on your home appliances.
Absolutely - anything outside 50.0 Hz will make clocks inaccurate.
But the power from the micro-inverters only go to the Solar Charge controller and not the power that the Inverter is supplying to the “house”, right?
I have only one clock in my house (in the stove). Not sure if this is dependent on the frequency....
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaStoves, microwave ovens, vcrs,... almost all of those use it. It's cheap and very accurate, so it's basically the first choice for manufacturers if they can use it.
Tom Scott does a great video on the British electric grid and how it kept time and managed frequency shifts for devices in their entire network.
Mrs Andy needs to buy you a chain saw for them trees
Nice! At this rate (pun intended) your batteries will last a very, very long time!
And you proven quite a few interesting things too, we learn a lot from you.
And due to that, I have more & more Victron Kit, marvellous!
BTW, can we use your settings for the JK BMS also for the JBD BMS?
Or should I instead use your settings from the Overkill BMS?
As an overview of your JBD settings & configs seem to be missing.
Thanks for your feedback and sorry to hear you're spending money on Victron gear. I know it's expensive...😄
Yes, you can basically use the settings across all BMSes. They don't need to match 100% and what I have set for my system may need some slight tweaking on your system anyway. But it's a good starting point.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia No worries, Victron is quite good and also hold their value too when reselling good-as-new. (I resold my Blue Power Charger and bought a few BlueSolar charge controllers to repurpose my Goal Zero Boulder solar panels I have quite a few off).
I was enquiring about the BMS settings as I noticed the Müller Energy's BMS has several settings that are quite off compared to your settings/recommendations. Even for "just" a 12-volt system. (percentages of the various charge-levels, the infamous protection-voltages and so forth). I probably will make a nice spreadsheet and fill-in the default versus the Andy Sunshine settings, makes it more visible what the actual differences are. Thank you for taking the time to response, much appreciated!
A set of S.P.A.T is underway to you for appreciation.
@@InspectorGadget2014ah, yeah, these charge level percentages... I'm not even sure if the BMS uses them as it counts the Ah, rather then measures the voltage.
Hey thanks for the S.P.A.T.! Appreciate that!
Fantastic video Andy 😊, which model of microinverter from Deye is this one?
8:58 a windmill!
Doooh!
This was a very very cool video. Thank you for sharing. I think you said you can’t use AC In on multi-plus with the microinverter AC coupling. What if the Phoenix inverter kicks on while the microinverters are connected. I think you still have the Phoenix connected to MP AC-In.
Thank you. Yes, that is correct. As soon as there is an AC-in signal, the Multiplus will fall back to 50Hz and the Microinverter will also adapt to this frequency and start producing as much power as it can.
This is indeed a problem in off-grid installations with a generator. But usually the generator only comes on when the battery is low and not when it is almost full. Victron provides other measurer in this case, for example the Generator Assistant where you can prevent the generator from turning on when SOC is higher than 90% for example.
Andy, very interesting and I did the same setup. I now need to connect an inverter to my multiplus to help out with peak loads.
When you connected your multiplus and inverter together, you said to not enable the charger as it would go around in a loop.
So can you tell me how that is avoided now that you enabled the charger for the micro inverter?
👍
My EVE batts are two years old and they don't have any swelling even at 5% charge there are no signs of degradation yet
My Trojan Lead acid batts died after 2 years they showed signs of swelling after 4 months
"old man yells at cloud" would be a great tagline for the channel. Andy runs outside and yells "I'm trying to do a battery test here"...
Hahaha, I don't mind the clouds as I have higher energy production then with the defused light. Just not when I do testing and need the sun to be out!!!! Dooooh...
Do you know what would happen if you did have an external generator on the system? Would you have to have a breaker that disconnects the solar inverter when the generator is on?
I wonder too, I think the generator can be used to power the battery charger which wouldn't require frequency nor phase matching as a DC only input. Slightly lossey though - I would think.
The Schneider Conext inverters allow any generator to connect directly into the AC inverter output because they can combine both ( Inverter+ Generator)by frequency and phase matching the two. Nice and efficient that way especially since you can just combine the generator output when a large load is on which also allows running over the rated inverter power.
As explained in the video, as soon as there is any AC-in to the Multiplus, it cannot shift the frequency any more and this method will not work! Apparently there are other methods which can be put in place but usually, the excess energy of the AC-coupled inverter will just be exported to the grid. A generator usually only comes on when the battery is empty, not when it is full. So there is a generator assistant in the Multiplus for that to prevent the gen turning on in this situation.
I am kind of surprised you haven't swapped out the BMSes for one of your favourites. Like the Pace.
There will be something better than the Pace very soon...
👀
Ooooh
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
New JK ??
In Germany we have very bad weather. I think Australia is big enough for us to move there.
That was exactly my thinking too!
But you must live close enough so we can spend much hours looking out the window to see what the neighbours are doing.
I suggest this between Lüften and long walks.
very basic question here: do you need a diode between a solar panel and an mppt?
( assuming the panel has no inbuilt diode, just hoping to try very basic setup)
No diode needed.
Next summer you may need cooling in your garage. Coming hot summer there. too hot to charge batteries without AC.
Watch this space...
I wonder if you have ever had a bit of a RFI check around the off grid garage? I would be interested to know how noisy or how quite the whole system is.
Nope, never had such a check. Would not know how to rate the results.
Super Video!
Victron müsste anders mit der max Ladestrom Vorgabe umgehen, nämlich Max Ladestrom BMS + Laststrom = max Strom Laderegler PV
This micro inverter looks pretty good. Have you calculated the winter advantage of the angle and per panel MPPT compared to the other string on that roof?
Well, we have done quite a bit of testing around this tilt system in previous videos (there is a whole playlist with all the videos below). A steeper angle would be more beneficial but also more difficult in terms of mounting structure and wind force.
ruclips.net/p/PLPomydD54sgDAZCaLsyuToXbAHR3zEVtS
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, I have watch all of them. You optimized it for sunny winter days and shade interfering a large part of the day.
But do you have a kWh total (and Wp total) of the panels on a good sunny winter day? For charging, the total kWh on a day matters more than the peak achieved.
So divide kWh producted by Wp of the string achieved on that sunny day and the same for the Micro inverter setup and you can calculate the sunny winter day advantage. I would take the best day of the micro inverter.
I hope you have this data for the other panels on the roof to make the best case calculation.
Not sure i agree on your statement that the bms limiter doesnt make sense..
Maybe not for your system at this time of year, but when cranking 100+ amps in summer it certainly does make sense..
Furthermore, victron ( and seperate components systems like it) limits the scc , if using a hybrid, there is no problem with loads not being fed by solar
At what point would a current limiter make sense when the battery is fully charged and current is tapering off anyway? I cannot think of a situation where this would be necessary...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Well similar question could be asked about Victron behavior.
Why would you limit solar production due to a BMS limit, if there are loads present, but only when in off-grid mode and not when connected to grid?
It is a bad implementation of the current limit in the charge controller by Victron, because it does not take the AC load power into account, like other integrated hybrid inverters.
All-in-one hybrid inverters will still supply all the power needed for loads even when Seplos sets charge limit, no matter if in grid tied or off-grid operation.
Anyway... I think you need to get your hands on one of those Deye hybrid inverters... you will see Seplos works like a charm with them. :)
From my point of view I like the fact the charge current gets limited when SOC is high, it makes no sense to charge the battery with high current at high SOC.
If anything I would love to have an option to adjust the complete charge curve depending on the SOC, but AFAIK no BMS has that option so far.
Don't get me wrong, Seplos does many stupid things, their BMSs could be the best out there with some minor SW tweaks, the settings are also a minefield.
And the balancing current could be higher, but in reality over a long period it will balance the battery pack sooner or later.
All in all it is far from bad, when used together with a proper inverter.
Hello Andy, I have a question, does a 48v 280a battery necessarily have to communicate with the hybrid inverter? Does it matter whether the battery communicates or not? thx (and also what do you prefer as bms which communicates since the JKBMS does not)
No, it does not need to communicate. I have three 280Ah/304Ah battery banks in parallel with no communication to the charger/inverter. System runs flawlessly for 1.5yrs.
The JK can also communicate. Check this video out where I show it: ruclips.net/video/sHIlP2oJ3DU/видео.html
Hey Andy, I was looking for information on the portable battery box that you have that has an Anderson connector integrated into the box. Can you post a link for this device?
The Mueller Battery: ruclips.net/video/Opv_c8IoOy4/видео.html
Thanks
Thanks a lot Nigel for your ongoing support.
Hello
I need to ask a rather important question (for me) because I have seen thousands of video tutorials that say that there is no problem in making a parallel between multiple DIY battery packs.
but there is also someone who says that if the BMS of a battery pack were to disconnect for any reason at the time of reconnection there would be an enormous current flow from the more charged battery pack to the less charged one. this would create a lot of problems especially of security. They even say that the bms, reading this exaggerated current, could continue to disconnect and reconnect or that the fuses would continue to blow going beyond the amperage.
Now my question is this is : there no way to reduce the output current of a battery pack via the BMS so as to limit this output current or There are devices to be placed between the battery packs to manage this type of problem?
P.S. I'm asking these questions because I'm going to make two 1p16s battery packs.
thanks
Hello and thanks for your question. Paralleling different capacity batteries is usually not a problem as the current balances out between the two packs. I have tested a 12V 5Ah in parallel with a 12V 300Ah battery to see what happens (ruclips.net/video/fQz7vZEYLfY/видео.html).
Also, it depends on the chemistry of the batteries. Due to the very flat voltage curve of LiFePO4 batteries, it is not a problem to parallel them and even at different SOC levels, the currents across the packs are very shallow. This is different with Li-ion batteries for example and cross-currents can be huge.
Also, some of the more advanced BMS have a current limiter to prevent big equalisation currents. Check out this video here: ruclips.net/video/Rsb8wRqtNs0/видео.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks for the reply, I'm watching all your old video to learn more....
Bye
@OffGridGarageAustralia
Possibly found a new reset SOC feature in JK app. I recently upgraded some of my older JK BMS modules to newer B2A24S20P modules. I also updated to the JK BMS app v4.15.3 and found (among other things) two new configuration values: "SOC-100% Volt.(V)" and "SOC-0% Volt.(V)". My HOPE is that this will allow for a better SOC calibration for the JK BMSes. I emailed JK BMS support but not sure if they will respond. Would love to have your take on it?
Isn't the JK resetting to 100% quite well once the battery is full? I never had an issues with that.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Historically JK BMS seems to reset to 100% SOC when it reaches the "Cell OVP(V)" value which, as you know, is not optimal. I have noticed in the latest JK BMS hardware they now have "SOC-100% Volt.(V)" and "SOC-0% Volt.(V)" options which I hope can be used instead of relying on "Cell OVP(V)" to reset SOC.
@@KarelVenter Ah, right. I have still an old JK which needs a battery to jump start. Mine resets to 100% if the voltage is high enough, not only at OVP.
Yeah, such a setting makes sense. They always improve this BMS.
I have some trouble to get the smartshunt and jk bms matching in soc. Up to 30% is looking the same then the bms is lower then the smartshunt. I checked the busbars, individuele connection to the battery. Current and voltage are the same. What can I do to solve this?
Nothing you can do about it. Don't worry about the JK SOC. I have 3 BMS (JK, Heltec and Overkill) and they all show different SOC levels. They all calculate differently. Take the smart shunt as point of truth as I found it to be the most reliable and precise measuring device.
Hi. Do you have info about the "Daly wifi module intelligently and remotely monitor the battery"? This will be the most interesting accessories 😍😍
A Daly Wifi module? I have not seen the Daly Cloud yet...
Thanks for the interesting video. Just a small question - if you only had to choose ONE BMS which one would it be? Cheers.
Ouh, this is difficult question... I probably would wait for the brand new JK-BMS which is on its way 😉
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaThank you, much appreciated! 👍
I don't like too the fact seplos and the others limits or stop the solar incoming even when there is load. I'm waiting for the new BMS from JK you mentioned some weeks ago to finally choose the new one for the 2nd battery.
That is only s problem if using a seperated charging system like Victron.
Problem doesn't exist if using a hybrid like deye/sunsynk/sol- ark/lux power and many others
Apparently the charge limit only applies when off-grid and the current limiter has no effect when connected to the grid. When the battery gets full, the power needs to go somewhere and if off-grid, it makes sense to limit the solar output or even stop it altogether.
I cannot test a grid connected or ESS system unfortunately, so can only share what I find with my off-grid system.
Hello Andy follow yr channel on regular basis have 24v system in Wales UK have recently bought jbd BMS but having trouble with China on what software they r using they advertise one with dashboard and access to parameters but not the same version on yr channel any chance u could let me know which version that is thanks again have learnt loads from yr channel which is fantastic Cheers
Well, are you on Android or iOS? The XiaoXiang app should work with the JBD BMS with no problem. You can also try the Overkill app which works with most JBD as well. I have links to both of the apps on my BMS website: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
I was wondering if the tilt system will keep trying to push power after the one hour hold of 55.2 when you let the voltage fall to float? You should show us
That is a good question. Victron has a built in safety switch for that and the frequency will only recover back to 50Hz when the battery voltage is Float voltage -0.8V (setting in the Multiplus). I'm testing this right now and will provide an update video.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I just saw that potential issue as soon as I saw how fast it started delivering full power from the micro inverter and then kicked straight back in once the freq returned to 50. Thanks for the update
How do you limit the output of the tilt system microinverter when the Phoenix 'generator' is on?
This is a scenario which usually does not occur. The 'generator' only comes on if the battery is low but not at 100%SOC.
There are other Assistants you can setup in the Victron Multiplus which disallow the generator or any AC load from coming online above 90%SOC for example.
I could setup a rule in either Home Assistant or the inverter which turn off the Shelly switch in the Micro-Inverter connection if SOC goes over say 95%.
I thought it came on for load. Conceivably one can have a full battery and enough solar to carry loads above your configured threshold, causing the Phoenix to be switched on, locking the frequency at 50Hz. Your lockout over 95% is therefore necessary for safety but also means you can't handle the highest loads when you have the most generation (potentially) @@OffGridGarageAustralia
Hey Andy, hope you are keeping well!! Have you done a video showing temperature sensors set up, would love to have something similar displayed on vrm??? Thanks in advance
I use some Ruuvy Tags in my VRM. They connect via Bluetooth and show temperatures, air pressure and humidity for this location.
There is a video here: ruclips.net/video/UFfsiLisziU/видео.html
THANKS@@OffGridGarageAustralia
Morning from -2 Victoria. It is cold. I wonder if I can do the same with the monster invertor. I originally use sonoff, but went to tuya as more integrated with HA, mate.
I'm not aware of any other inverter which does frequency shifting.
I am wondering why you don’t heat water with a non electric style solar heater
For some time now it has been more cosr effective to chuck on a few more panels and use electric (preferably heat pump) hot water than to use solar hot water.
A solar hot water system pays off in 29 years for me. We use around ~4-5kWh/per day in winter and ~0.5kWh/day in summer for hot water. And yes, some more panels will do the trick.
Can you control the output power of your water heater? Or is it just a simple on/off thing?
It is simply on/off via a Sonoff switch. I can easily setup an automation now in Home Assistant and when the SOC is over 95%, I can turn on this switch and if it is below 90% I turn it off again. At the moment, I just do it manually.
When the multiplus start shift a frequency to 52Hz. Does it any affect to a electric equipment(in your garage)?
No effect on anything, computers, pumps, lights, dishwasher, washing machine, TV, no problem.
Thank you very much for your answer. ❤
Like# 9 - wait, what? What the Sam Hill about Hz??? Watching a second time to figure out what the hell Hz has to do with anything charging/discharging?!? what is this witchcraft?
The microinverter tracks the line frequency provided by the Multiplus and uses that to adjust to its output power. The Multiplus will automatically adjust this frequency to control the power coming into the system from the microinverter.
The micro-inverters lock on to the 'grid' frequency supplied on the output of the inverter. So the inverter is supplying a frequency and when it doesn't want that power it increases the frequency to indicate to supplying equipment that it doesn't need any more energy.
The real grid kind of works this way and Andy's microgrid off-grid also works this way.
@@boomermatic6035 how does frequency relate to, I’m not even sure what to ask, SOC -or- Voltage? Or what does it correlate to?
@@BobHannent so they are trying to equalize to the same frequency? Similar to my other question, what are the physics that changes the frequency in the inverter? I thought you set (at least in my inverter I can choose different frequencies). I presumed once you set it, that’s what it was unless a loss or surge of power. Which I’m presuming isn’t a desired behavior?
I might be thinking through this in real-time.
Is frequency related to resistance? Does resistance go up as the battery approaches full charge? Something like this?
The change in frequency relates to the output power of the microinverter. Using a frequency change to adjust output power is one of the simplest ways to signal the microinverter to adjust its output power, it doesn't require any extra connections since it is already hooked to the AC line. Most modern equipment can tolerate a change in the line frequency with no issues.
@@paulcurtis5496
But you can not use your phoenix inverter as a generator in this configuration, right?
No, that's not working. The Multiplus cannot change the frequency of any connected AC source, either grid or generator. There are other methods for such systems .
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Can you point to them? I was thinking to expand the solar part on the AC OUT side with a Fronius AC coupled but i also have an hybrid voltronic to integrate on the AC IN
Do you advise buying Hithium 280AH cells ? Or Eve is much better??
I would stick with the EVE batteries.
@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks a lot will go for EVE cells
@@DeyeDeye Link in the video description. There are some discount codes as well on my website... 😉
I will check them
Hi. How can i get in contact with you.
Through here. What's up?
I don't understand why would you want the micro inverter to increase the frequency? Seems to me you would just want it at 50 steady? Anyone?
Changing the frequency will make the microinverters shutdown. You want that because they can't dump their power if the battery is full. In case of a grid tied system you can export it to the grid and you don't need this feature.
It's for an off-grid system only.
If you're grid connected and the battery is full, you usualy export the excess energy.
You can't do that in an off-grid installation, can you? So you need to tell the AC-Inverter to stop producing, when the battery is full. This happens through the frequency.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It's not only for offgrid systems, also for grid connected systems but in a situation when the grid is down.
@@kameraadcoenraad Very good point!
Such a shame the micro inverter output doesn’t track the frequency on the way back down.
Would do if he matched the settings in the Victoron to match the micro inverters behaviour. Problem is he has it set to throttle all the way to 52.7, but his inverter disconnects at 52
Good excuse for another video though.
I don't think I can change the settings to make the micro inverter work that way. It just waits for the frequency to go back to 50Hz before it starts working.
@@edc1569 yes, it would be good to see some more experimentation. Andy?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You showed us the setting in the victron app (3:17) when you set the (big) inverter up, you just left it on defaults though, if you change the settings "the output power will be reduced to minimum" to 52 or 51.95, I imagine the system will do better at avoiding tripping the (small) inverter out entirely, and it having to go through its mandated restart procedure.
Neyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
If someone has an ongrid system with microinverters, is it enough then to put a battery bank with a hybrid inverter that has this function to control the Hz of the grid to transform this system into a system that works offgrid? Congrats from 30º S on Brazil!
Most hybrid inverters can not do this. The reason is that the frequency is delivered by the grid. When it disappears the inverter must stop delvering power. This is a safety requirement.
You can get offgrid inverters that use the grid only for backup purposes when the connected battery and solar panels are not enough. But this only works one way. So any solar surplus is lost as it can not send power to the grid, only the microgrid or the connected batteries.
@@SolAce-nw2hfThis 💯
Summed it up very well.
You don’t need to control the frequency, you just export the excess. Though you should make sure you’re not exceeding what you’re allowed to export.
With an on-grid system, the inverter cannot change the frequency. I think I explained this in the video at some point.
All excess from the inverter can just be exported in this case. If you're not allowed to export or have other limits, there are other measures to control the AC-coupled solar.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think I didn't make myself clear, here in Brazil ongrid systems are much more common than hybrid or offgrid systems due to the price, but when there is a lack of power from the network, this system is turned off and the house is without power, even with a lot of sun outside. What I meant is that we could switch the microinverters that originally work in an ongrid system, to a hybrid inverter used only as an offgrid, creating a microgrid, which has this ability to change the frequency, together with a small bank of batteries, for at least, during the day, take advantage of the sun's energy, even when there is no power from the grid. It is very common for blackouts to happen here in Brazil and even people with a lot of solar panels on their roofs lose power.
please use other ongrid inverters, not microinverter
You mean for testing purposes? I'm working on a test wall where we can do this in the future.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes for test. Also new DEYE Hibrid 6kW 48v 2xMPPT SUN-6K-SG05LP1 not victron
@@marianilie7321 nah, can't test them, don't have the facilities for that. Hibrid inverter needs a grid. Also very costly to buy all these inverters 💰💰💰
I'm still confused as to why the frequency needs changed when electronics run 60hz US or 50hz AU
How do you turn off an AC-coupled solar system if you don't have a grid where excess energy can be exported to?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ah now I see. I was forgetting the micro inverter array and how it's fed in.
It's how the Victron inverter communicates to the micro inverters at the solar panels to regulate power generation when it needs to be limited or stopped .This is the standard for AC coupled solar .
@onthelake9554 ac coupled solar is something I need to learn more about. Right now my mppt does the work and my multiplus is only an inverter. I could have went with a cheaper inverter but I wanted to keep my entire system in the victron ecosystem
Nein-ty first! 😂
Nein, nein, nein!
Forget about a wind charger, just cut down the bloody trees. You will have no more shading on the panels.
first
🥈
🐸🐸🐸
🥇
You know, we can fix the shade issue and stihl the show from those silly micro-inverters... ;-)
How boring would it be to have full sun on the roof all day long 😴
@@OffGridGarageAustralia who are you?!?!? I thought you were my brotha from anotha motha on the other side of the World?!?!
🦦 Andy could buy this, or this, and this, maybe this, definitely this ☺️ , not only a turbine 😂 That‘s why we sit on couch and you doing nice stuff 😉
A turbine.... 🤔
or a mill wheel 😖🙂