Charging my battery from almost anywhere with this Grid-Tie Micro Inverter and the Victron Multiplus
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 май 2023
- Today, we're going to setup and test a Grid-Tied #Micro #Inverter in the Off-Grid Garage. How does a AC-coupled inverter work without a grid? Well, the Victron #Multiplus makes it possible and takes care of the charging output of the micro inverter through frequency shifting. This is a very clever way to stop all connected inverters from producing power once the battery gets full.
But will this Chinese brand inverter actually work with the Multiplus at all? And can we use these micro-inverters to charge our battery in the garage from many distant places on the property? It seems, this opens up a whole bunch of new possibilities...
Mars Rock Grid-Tied Micro Inverter for 120V and 230V:
off-grid-garage.com/solar-cha...
Solar Panel Tester, a really great device:
off-grid-garage.com/measureme...
Victron AC-coupling and the Factor 1.0 rule:
www.victronenergy.com/live/ac...
Please subscribe and join me on my journey of the Off-Grid Garage!
For more information, please check out my website with links to all the batteries, materials, devices and products I have used in my videos: off-grid-garage.com
The 'Buy me a Beer🍻'-link is here (on the website, scroll all the way down):
off-grid-garage.com Thank you for your support!
You can also click on the Thanks button under the video to support the channel. Thank you, if you have already!
T-Shirts, caps, mugs and more in our merch-shop:
off-grid-garage.com/merch
**** These are the batteries you are looking for ****
🔋➡EVE LF280/304 LiFePO4 cells 3.2V/280+304Ah: off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
🌞➡Solar charge Controllers, Inverters and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/solar-cha...
🔧➡Tools, Analysers and Testers: off-grid-garage.com/equipment/
📈➡ Battery Tests and Results: off-grid-garage.com/battery-d...
🔌➡Batteries, charger and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/batteries-3/
⚡➡Cables, Inverters and Electronics: off-grid-garage.com/electronics/
The Sunfunkit DIY battery. Great product to build your own 12V battery. Use OGGA at checkout to get 6% off. Video Review: • The Sun Fun Kit Experi...
Best prices for Victron gear in Australia: Auto Parts Co has you covered.
www.autopartsco.com.au/?pd_pr...
(they have 4WD parts and accessories too)
Take a live sneak peek at the Off-Grid-Garage in the Victron VRM World (link at top of the page):
off-grid-garage.com/victron-c...
Here is my Tesla referral link, if you want to buy any Tesla accessories or even order a vehicle. This is a great way to support my channel. Thanks a lot to everyone who have used it so far 🙏 www.tesla.com/en_au/referral/...
My other (German) RUclips channels:
/ offgridgarageaustralia
Please don't leave any links in your reply. RUclips will not publish your comment in this case.
If you decide to sent me an email, I really appreciate your time and effort for doing this. However, please consider leaving a comment under my videos instead as I may not be able to reply to your email due to the sheer amount of messages I'm receiving. 
Наука
You got to love this man and his ideas and his effort for testning everything he comes up with! I love it!
Thanks a lot, Ken. Just what I did my whole life long. I would do the same testing even without camera. But with, it is far more fun.
I realy like this guy, he can put a smile on your face while explaining his stuff, wish he was my neighbor !
Thank you, I would like to have all of you as my neighbours. OK, most of you... 😁
I'm also using grid tie with my off-grid system MultiPlus-II 3000VA. The micro inverters i have are "PVGS 180W" and "PVGS 350W" the 180w was 38€ and 350w was 45€. Both from aliexpress, They do support frequency shift so when the battery is full i see 53hz and they stop producing power. For the power meter i used a cheap 12€ Tasmota smart plug that monitors the AC Voltage,Current,Power and then made a small python script for the victron VenusOS that gets the data from the smart plug's api (This is done on the local network so the refresh rate is about 2 seconds) and imports them into the VenusOS and VRM as a "fake" power meter. I also am running ESS without any issues even offgrid. (I have grid but it's unstable and set the inverter to "inverter-only" mode so the ac-in is disconnected)
Top work :)
Thanks for sharing. I'm interested in this script and a comprehensive manual send to me via email so I can make a video for everyone... 😊
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sure, no problem. I will email you! (probably tomorrow because no time today)
Switching off is not frequency shifting....it's security frequency shutting off.
Frequency shifting is a smooth shift.
Thanks Andy for showing all of us how you test and run everything! This kind of real world testing really helps all of us.
Thank you. I was also interested in how this works and if... win-win
Great idea and that you show us this possibility. There are so many things that can be done with this setup.
As I said, it opens up a whole new dimension of possibilities now...
I was really thinking of digging a trench around the pool for a DC feed back to the garage and thought about this for well over a year. Not any more...
I am learning so much on this channel!
Happy to watch some advertisements for you. Will put it on repeat when the sun is shining(got no batteries for the house yet, boat and cabin are fine thanks to this channel)
Hahaha, thanks a lot Wiley. I appreciate your support.
Thanks Andy for reminding me of how lovely those crisp, clear winter mornings on the old Sunshine coast are!
Yes, beautiful here at the moment. Only 6°C this morning. Fireplace is running.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks for reminding me of that as well. It warms my heart to see a good bloke from the island south of the Black Forrest enjoying the I life dreamed of.
Herzlichen Glückwunsch!
AC connected PV demystified!
Hope to see more about this, especially about the ET112 as I'm considering one for my ESS, be great to learn about those.
Keep it up Andy! Greets from the UK in almost high summer ;)
Thanks a lot for your support and keeping me alive 🍺🍺🍺
Aaahhhh. Absolutely new topic for me. But it makes all the sense in the world. Interesting that the Multiplus is able to manage that "outsider" power and put it in the battery. There it is, a great solution for your winter extra backup power power.
Loved the tech class... As usual!
Keep it up Andy, you are the best solar and battery teacher on the interwebs...
Thanks a lot Ricardo. I wanted to test this out for a long time. Now is the time to get this project done. More to come!
Amazing project Andy !
This is so cool. The multi is such a cool tool
It is amazing. With all these software assistants it the Swiss Army Knife!
Thanks for the video Andy. This appears to be a rebranded Deye micro inverter. Deye inverters of all shapes, sizes and types are known to be versatile and provide good values for the money.
Yeah, it seems advertised now as a Deye inverter on AliExpress. Feels very solid.
The Sol-Ark inverter also fully supports UL1741-SA. Lets see.. Sol-Ark, Outback;.. the SMA inverter supports the protocol but doesn't have an integrated battery charger / inverter (which is required to soak up or push power mismatches). Probably a few others. Sol-Ark is the best, though,
Very cool idea Andy
Love this I been messing with adding old grid tie systems ess been driving me nuts this helped
great system. great weather in Italy in winter. last winter we had maybe only 3 days of sun and it shone for 10 hours.
Finally a video of this micro inverter
Exactly, one year warranty wasted... 😄
You really are becoming a Solar Guru ... I worship at your feet oh master ;-)
Rise from your knees, Padawan 😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia May the Electrical Force be with you, as long as you are earthed of cause
Thank you for your Videos Andy!
I also use a grid tie inverter that also uses Solarman app. I added a wifi switch (switchable socket). I use mystrom switch, that is really expensive but I like their data representation. This kind of wifi switch can also be accessed via rest api. So I can get realtime information from that switch and do what ever I want with the data. This extra switch adds also another possibility of deactivating the micro inverter. May be you find a comparable switch with Rest api in sunny hot Australia 🙂
Thanks for sharing. That is a great idea and I will do something similar for this inverter which I can then integrate into the Victron System.
Thumbs up 👍 recharge and go for power up! 😊
Ah finally trying my set up. My growatt will charge and add to the output if needed.
You can use a Shelly 3EM to measure the power and transmit it via WiFi to the Victron System and visualize it. This works fine in my system. Thanks for the content and greetings from South Germany. 👍👍👍
How do you read the Shelly in Victron though? It needs some kind of script or integration.
My third attempt to answer here...
Yes, there is a project from Fabian Lauer (dbus-shelly-3em-smartmeter). You find it on the standard repository (don't want to mention it here).
Hope this comment will not be deleted again... 😬
I have a Sunsynk 8kw hybrid. (Grid tied)
It can function as off grid and on its Generator port it can accept up to 4kw of AC from grid tied microinverters. I have 3.5kw feeding in.
If I was islanded (off grid) it apparently can frequency shift to tail off output of the microinverters.... but I believe it will also disconnect the relay contact for that port when a specific battery SOC is reached. Also check out DEYE (same factory)
Hello handy
I do that for years with sma inverter.....
I notice 1 mistake......
The maximum power of a solar grid tie inverter on a multiplus is not the power of the multiplus but the maxi charging current.
On my multiplus 3000 35A so 1450 w maxi.
The best avantage of this method of production is that you can have in my case 4000 w during the day without starting a phoenix to assist the multiplus.....
And most of the time you using energy straits of solar inverter , the Lifetime of your multiplus Wil be extended.....
Nice demo.
For info in Europe all the grid inverter since 2011 have the modulation capability via frequency variation .....from 100 to 60 % power reduction then turn off.
Thanks for your happy video😅😘
Thanks for the info, Eric.
I could not find this info about the max charging current through the MP. I'll have another dig...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia hello handy
This is the system
A muliplus 48/3000/35-16
Means 48 V battery, 3000VA 35 A(DC) charging current,16A input current (AC, grid).
This same 2kW micro-inverter works great together with my campervan MultiPlus-II 3kW.
Tested with sun fall and 450Wp split mono panel. Tomorrow hopefully good sunshine to test full charge. Already tested two wire BMS to stop charging which is mandatory!
Hi, how did you get on with this.
Using micro inverters to mains voltage as a small simple system seams such a good idea.
It makes you think about all the “small” loads adding up.
Take care M
@@markeh1971 since spring this setup kept battery charged without shore power or alternator over month already
Very interesting
Andy, there is easy solution to connect more than 5kW of grid-tie inverters - second MP2 in paralel 😉
Yes, coming at some stage.
What happens though if one MP goes offline? Ah, I think the second one shuts down as well then as they are synced, right?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, you are right. But how many times this happen? 1-2x per year?
With micro-inverters and UL1741-SA (frequency control), the hybrid inverter / battery charger must be able to charge or discharge the battery at the power rating of the worst case difference between micro-inverter output and the load. Because if it can't, the micro-inverters will over-volt the line and shut-down. That is why inverters with this capability have a specification for the maximum amount of AC-tied solar that can be attached.
Then we get to the battery, which is actually a more difficult problem because the inverter needs to maintain headroom in the battery. This generally means it cannot charge it past 90% or 95% or so SOC. Otherwise there isn't enough headroom in the battery for the charger to be able to soak up differences in the micro-inverter output. THEORETICALLY the inverter/charger ("hybrid inverter system") knows this and will maintain headroom by purposefully directing the micro-inverters to produce less power than the load in order to drain a battery that is too full back to the 90-95% SOC needed. The servo works both ways.
With LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries, this means that it becomes rather important that the SOC level be accurate and not drift. Because it has to be maintained at a level less than 100%. And as we know, that is really quite difficult to do with LiFePO4 batteries.
I disagree the BMS will protect the batts and the grid tia shuts off at about 270 V and will also trigger the victron overvolt alarm shutting it down too
I wouldn't trust it though
But spikes with 270V are not great and someone here mentioned actually that some of his equipment got destroyed.
I probably use a 16A Shelly and disconnect the AC-inverter if the battery hits 90%SOC.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia There is no safe way to allow a micro-inverter to free-run without a hybrid master inverter dealing with the generation / load difference (in both directions).
This master inverter is also responsible for adjusting the line frequency up and down to keep the generation matched with the load. It uses its battery charger to soak extra generation and its inverter to supply missing generation. And it will make adjustments to ensure that the battery SOC never goes above 90%.
Thus the system is able to operate 24x7 this way without having to switch anything on or off (switching stuff on and off isn't a solution, the line voltage can rise or fall very quickly when there is a generation-v-load mismatch... within a few cycles).
Hence why you need a hybrid inverter that fully supports UL1741-SA, with batteries and a built-in battery charger and inverter capable of soaking up the worst-case (temporary) generation-v-load differential as conditions change.
Sizing components to match in these sorts of systems is extremely important. This is also a case where you need to actually spend money to get the right inverter... something bullet-proof, like a Sol-Ark, with actual fully-tested certifications.
But once you do... well, then you have a fully operational micro-grid that works with both AC-coupled and DC-coupled solar. And that is a pretty cool thing to have.
Some people already mentioned that you could use a Tasmota or Shelly device to measure the production.
More interesting works be to directly query the API of the inverter so that there is no need for additional hardware.
From this you can then create a fake meter in the VenusOS. I'm sure a lot of people here would love to support you with that, including me.
Are you suggesting incorporating MQTT into the solar ecosystem?
There is a solution for HA which queries the Solarman database (you can request and API access and token). It involves a bit of yaml coding though but several people have reported it working. I just don't have the time at the moment but maybe later...
Interesting stuff.
You can get RS485 over WiFi adaptors, although I ran a cable to mine about 20 meters away from my Quattro. You also need to setup the ET112 in the Cerbo and tell the system it's measuring a PV Inverter on the AC out. I have a 4kW SolarEdge inverter from 2015, which does shutdown when the frequency increases, most inverters should. Mine didn't shut down until the SOC reached 100% though, the MPPT chargers throttled back first, then the SE shut down and the MPPT chargers came back up to cover AC loads.
PS my 8.74kW combined systems are producing up to 55 kWh a day at the moment.
Yeah, there is also the Zigbee connection possible with the ET112. I'm also looking into the Shelly setup and run a simple script on the VenusOS to integrate it as a meter.
Very nice and interesting video 👍 Greetings from Germany
Danke Dir!
If you connect those kind of micro-inverters to a battery, the max power they use from the battery is the number they are rated for. So it doesn't harm if your panels can produce more power. The inverter just stops at the maximum point. (at least, this works for Enphase micro-inverters)
Yeah, I was kind of expecting that as well, just not sure with this device...
Hi Andy, discovered your channel in genuary, have been whatching all your video and I mean all 100% so interesting! I have an Epever inverter and Is doing the same with the micro inverter, also voltronic too, have made some video on it. 👋🏻👋🏻
Thanks a lot Miki. Wow, even I didn't watch all of the videos 😂 Welcome to the channel and sharing these info about your inverter. Great stuff...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia If you cant remember something just ask me than 😂😂😂
PS. You are a great Person.
SMA solar converters can input 3kW (AC) per string but handle up to 4.5kW without going boom. And they tie in to the inverter that controls the AC frequency to ensure it uses only what's needed and doesn't go boom 🙂
What are SMA solar converters?
I had a micro grid setup with an SMA inverter, there is a reason that I went back to full dc, good luck Andy...
Do you want to share?
Well, there is almost no way to get DC over to this side of the pool all the way from my garage, so AC seems the only solution.
Hi Andy, no, I agree that there is no easy way to get any form of dc from that location that does not involve any form of trenching, but, again you are testing which is what your channel is about,.
For about 7 years I had an SMA sunnyboy 1.5 backfeeding into my multipluse, and for the most part ran ok, but about 2, 2,5 years in I started noticing hard resets occurring from the SMA when frequency shifting would be implemented via the multipluse, and sometimes when the victron would then lower its frequency back down the SMA would just not be able to sync back up and would sometimes try to connect out of phase that would de-sync both inverters causing the victron to also shutdown, leaving us without power, and having to be restarted.
There were days where I would just totally switch off the SMA leading to loss of solar. In my last rewire I just parraled all the solar panels from the SMA side via braekers, and am pulling them into a separate mppt they are HV panels, I have noticed a gain in solar of about 500W which is not that much but still a gain none the less, and, more stable. Old setup would peak at1, 8 to 2Kw I am now seeing up to 2.5 to 2,7Kw in solar production. I will just never backfeed again because of all the issues, granted, there could be a problem with the sunnyboy, and it never ran at 1.5Kw it only ever peaked at 1Kw....... Thank you for all your work you do Andy.
I hope your AC cables and power plugs are up for the task, transporting 2000 watts (8-9 amps) without burning out over time. Because the standards sockets are actually not built for that kind of sustained load over several hours. Hence we have the blue and red power sockets for this type of load (in Germany, if you remember ;-) )
Yes, that'd be a worry for me also, I'd be more inclined to hard wire the microinverter back to the main inverter directly, more work but less worry !
All good, these circuits are all made with 2.5mm cable and are running the pool pump for years, the hot water and also house water pump for the last 6 months from the off-grid battery system.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy, I guess that'd be 2 kW peak and probably not sustained, which may help.....I take it the plug that goes into the socket from the microinverter is not "live" until it "sees" and AC source, ie it doesn't become a suicide plug !!!😵💫
@@AndyM... The microinverters will not operate unless the sense a "grid" of some type.
@@ssoffshore5111 Thought so, thanks for confirming that 😀👍
I use APsystem micro inverters and they work with my multiplus II. Microinverter disconnects when frequency is increasing. In Europ every inverter must switch off when frequency increases. I think it should even disconnect from 51.5Hz. Between 50Hz and 51.5Hz it decreases the power.
Thank you, great stuff...
Some have used enphase when it didnt do DRM and just a matter of keeping load up while the enphase produce power. Magnasine apparently could handle dumping full power into it but certainly people tried using 300w inverter to mimic the grid and then use enphase at their peril as the 300w couldnt cope should the load go. Some also reported those non-enphase micro inverters quality was lot to be desired often dying after 6-12 months of use compared to the more reliable enphase ones.
Andy congrats for your channel it's very informative and also funny.
You mention HomeAssistant and there is an integration for Solarman that update the values every 60 seconds, I use it in my Deye Inverter and it's perfect. That 1.0 victron rule is dumm, my inverter is 5KW and I have 8.72 KW panels and it's perfect for dark days.
You may have misunderstood the 1.0 rule. It has nothing to do with panels. It is for the connection of two separate inverters.
www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:start
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks for the explanation, my Deye is an hybrid so easy to manage that, and has a third port the is bidirectional were we can connect the generator or micro inverter or use it has a smart port to for example heat the pool when there is extra energy. This 5KW inverter can produce 6.5KW from PV to charge the batteries at 115A but the transformer get's a bit hot so better to limite it to 80A becoming very similar to Victron. If you have homeassisant you should try Batmon thru HACS, it will read almost all your BMS and the victron smart shunt, you only need a bluetooth dongle with BLE. Don't replay I can't imagine all the work those comments give you.
Solarman is the app used by the Deye inverters and also has an online version that does give you a bit better access to the data. It also shows which data is real-time and which is not, and a basic explanation as to why (in summary, some data produces too much traffic to be sustainable in real-time).
You need a master inverter AND microinverters that do UL1741-SA. Basically, the master inverter adjusts the micro-grid main frequency to control the micro-inverter outputs. UL1741 is the basic on-off protocol. UL1741-SA is the later version which allows dynamic control of the micro-inverter output.
Micro-inverters that over-produce will push the voltage on the micro-grid up to the micro-inverters limit, and if the micro-inverter is working properly it will SHUT DOWN because that is how it detects islanding, and it is required to shut-down as a safety mecanism.
The second problem is that the frequency servo is not instantaneous. The micro-inverters cannot follow the loads instantly. So the master inverter needs to have an integrated battery system that soaks up or provides the necessary difference until the frequency servo is able to adjust the micro-inverter output to match the changing load conditions.
Hey Andy, you need to have those trees trimmed to extend your solar power window.
We enjoy your projects
Do you want to come and do it?
👍👍👍
👍
Maybe of use to someone here: I have installed a 12kVa Growatt and a 10kVa Goodwe on a 15kVA (3phase 3x5kVA multiplus) system.
Frequency shifting to regulate the power down slowly doesn't work, they simply stop producing at 52 Hz I believe. Then the multiplus starts reducing the frequency again until they turn back on and we go in an endless loop.
These were in an ESS system, so not such a big deal, since the power rarely goes out.
All the inverter can modulate from 100 to 60% you need to choose synergrid C10 C11 like we use in Belgium into the menu of the grid inverter during installation procedure.
Also program the 3 multiplus to do that like Andy do....
@@ericverlaet4447
Hey Eric,
I'm also in Belgium :) The Multi's are definitely set-up correctly and they are slowly ramping up the AC frequency when the battery is near 100%SoC and the grid disconnected.
The Goodwe I'm sure I also set the grid code correctly, but it would just ignore the increasing frequency up until a certain cut off point and then drop out entirely. I remember checking if there were any additional settings, but came up empty.
The Growatt, I'd have to check if I ever entered any grid or area codes.
@@koffibanan3099 I just start a 3 phase 8000w in Germany, you have to select grid on startup vde in this case...working fine with multiplus...
For the sma I have a grid Gard code to program all the paramètres inside inverter, 10 years ago I install a lot of windyboy on windmill and watermills.....
Die RS485 war vor 5 Jahren mit der Einführung von Profinet eigentlich schon komplett tot, aber Totgesagte leben bekanntlich länger. Ich baue derzeit extrem viele Hauptverteilungen auf PV, Eigenverbrauch, Privat- und Gesamtmesaung für EV Anwendungen um, die RS485 ist wieder gross im Geschäft. Es gibt ein Standardprotokoll für Messungen, PV und EV. Ich persönlich bevorzuge immer das Kabel gegenüber Funk, weil es immer funktioniert - in deinem Fall macht das aber nur bedingt bis keinen Sinn. Entsprechende Schnittstellen von RS485 auf LAN und WLAN sind erhältlich. Da ich nur professionelle Schnittstellen für den Automationsbereich verwende und die sauteuer sind, kann ich dir leider keinen Tip dahingehend geben.
Ich find deine Clips ausgesprochen unterhaltsam und technisch interessant, bitte mehr davon!
Gruß aus Liechtenstein
Thanks a lot Stefan. Victron makes the Zigbee to RS485 adapters which I could use and connect to my already established Zigbee network. I also have the option to use a Shelly smart switch as some mentioned here.
There is good integration between Victron and Fronius. I have two Fronius GTIs on my multiplus output. No ET122 required. The Gx and Fronius talk over the LAN.
Yes, the Fronius will work, I just need to wait for another 5 years to do it for my system...
Nice video. Was already thinking about adding a similar install at my office - a PV-fence at the parking lot. But there are some more owners 🤷🏻.
Anyway for connecting the metering Victron has sth like a RS485 to Zigbee system. Did not use that, but application is described just like you need it.
I have a Zigbee network already, so can add this easily... Could be an option...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I‘m not sure if you can integrate Victrons zigbee devices into your zigbee network. They have a RS458 to zigbee adapter and one for usb to attach to a gx-device 🤔. If i understand the manual right, you have to use a dedicated zigbee connection for each smartmeter :/.
Maybe trying a shelly solution using wireless lan might be a better option. But that might be some mqtt gefrickel.
Good morning! Just something to mention… the MPII 5000 can invert 5 kva, that is true. But it can only transfer 3500 Watt (70A) from grid to the batteries.
If you install more one day, it may lead into problems.
It can still handle 5kW of AC-coupled solar. See the Victron documentation here: www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:start
I live in the Scottish Highlands so my solar system is over-sized. As a result I have excess energy in the summer. It's a mix of AC coupled inverters and MTTP chargers. I have the Victron assistant on the Multiplus set at default values just as you. Frequency shifting works fine with my 5kva Growatt Inverter and my Samil Solar River Inverter. Downside of frequency shifting is that it has caused fatal damage to voltage sensitive equipment that are connected to the 'off grid' side of my systems. Equipment loss which I feel is a considered risk with this type of arrangment.
I'm not sure if AC coupled inverters can be monitored by the current clamp which victron make - perhaps you could explore this option.
Good video, I've been waiting for you to take on an AC coupled system for a while now!
You are the second person mentioning this. I may consider another method and just disconnect the inverter using a Shelly and Home Assist when SOC hits 90%. Just before any frequency shifting occurs.
It could also be related to the size of inverter as yours is a 5kW as well, while mine is only 2kw.
I have not seen an option using a clamp sensor to control these inverters.
With Hoymiles Inverter it works very well.
"Moin" from german north sea coast.
Yes, they work. I have seen this on Jens' channel. I just can't get them down here.
ive seen also some smaller units that go directly on the rear of the pannels ,one micro inverter for each panell,and price were realy decent to when worked it all out
Yeah, if you follow the link under the video, you will find them. Starting from 400W.
This larger inverter can also be mounted directly behind the panels.
Many thanks Andy! Always love your videos :) I have a question that I think I know the answer to, but I'm not 100% sure - If I have a grid inverter (SMA Sunny Boy 2.5) connected to a 5kW Multiplus on it's output, (the Multiplus is connected to the grid but configured not to feed the grid) I configure the ESS Assistant on the MP2, am I right in saying that the MP2 can't do frequency shifting while connected to the grid? I have spent ages on this and the guy I'm helping wants to use the SMA but doesn't want to feed the grid . . . Many thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts/knowledge!
Lol my local government my wife mann that made my day love your channel brotha
@06:25 your local government(wifey)😂😂😂🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Andy, Looking at my workshop grid tie I think the refresh time is so long because, at dust & dawn, it goes into a bit of a frenzy trying to MPPT and syncro with the mains - there, not as efficient as most off-grid electronics I think mine is 86% so in the low sun when it does connect it often trips as the load overpowers the solar input- having a pause of 5 min before retrying makes sense to avoid this dizzy spell
Ah, right, that makes kind of sense... Still not great as others don't seem to have this problem...
أنت شخص مبدع
Question, you may have been asked this question many times but we here at media library were wondering why you just don't cut the tops of those trees down ? By the way we love your channel keep doing a good job
We appreciate you sharing your solar with us, however annoying the camera may be.
It's not annoying at all for me. It all just takes forever.......... 😄
Man, that was really weird to hear you say to tilt the panels North! The things we get locked into our brains, eh?
Depends where you live... But even in the northern hemisphere, I know a few people who have solar panels on their north side. Every bit counts and panels are cheap...
The ET112 Energy Meter can be installed in the Inverter AC Out Distribution Box which I recall is close to your Venus OS/RPi which minimises RS485 cable lengths.
But you have two of them. So I suspect you intend to have two micro inverters (or another AC production source on Multiplus AC Out) and want to measure each separately. This would mean locating the ET112s close to the generation source (in the Pool Pump Distribution Box?) and hence how to communicate to the Venus OS/RPi. Others have mentioned Zigbee but looking forward to your solution.
I bought these meters cheap a while back for future projects (like this).
I would need to get it installed close to the inverter in the pool area while the Venus device is in the garage. But Victron makes these Zigbee adapters which I could use.
if it is already using AC voltage, you can use powerline ethernet technology to deliver data. usually it support wifi/ethernet as long the powerline adapter inside 1 mcb
I wasn't aware the the energy monitor does not use ethernet but RS485. It's just the port which is a RS485 jack.
Andy, the runs from the fence will work.
It's limited sun only in the pm and the Winter sun is fairly weak already at this point. So, not really worth doing...
You see, this is why I went with a Victron Multiplus. Was looking at getting a Sunsynk inverter, but you basically throw power at a multiplus and it'll turn it into something useful 🤣🤣
I cannot believe, what the Multiplus can do. It fits all scenarios, really...
Synsynk/Deye is also a bi-directional inverter, does the same thing. They are the new kid on the block so people don't know what they can do yet
@@HeinzMeulke I know it's a bi-directional inverter, that's partly why it was on the top of my list.
They've also been around for a couple of years now, and everyone knows exactly what they can do, because it's meant for 1 thing, in home solar/battery energy storage.
Seeing as I'm intending on moving my inverter into a van in the next few years, the obvious choice was Victron, not a transformerless inverter that will struggle to deal with surge loads as there's no grid backing it up.
@@sarahjrandomnumbers For off-grid victron is a sound choice. I have a Deye and I am very impressed what it can do ( but offgrid most of the nice features will not be functional). Looks like you did your homework
28:23 will the goat eat the wires 😮
Yes, if we would have goats.
Andy, have you seen Dala's EV Repair? He has a video about using a Nissan Leaf battery with a Fronius Gen24 inverter, without changing the Leaf's battery voltage.
It uses the full HV battery pack and an adapter which translates the CAN to Modbus faking the protocol to make it appear like an expected BYD battery!?! Fascinating.
No, haven't seen this video. I'll have a look...
Zero degree yesterday morning here. 3 KW day here.
6 this morning but sunny and warm during the day. Not even Winter yet.
Andy look at the deye inverters. they even have an extra input for grid tie inverters. at least you can program it. those are really interesting 12kw 3 phase output and 48v battery
The Deye inverter will not fit my setup for many reasons. Totally unsuitable.
deye (also micro grid inverters) supports this feature with frequency regulation
I think, this is a Deye inverter...
UART/Serial TTL transmision over WiFi can easy be done with two cheap Wemos D1 mini (esp8266) running a telnet connection.
For TTL to RS485 conversion use MAX485 or SN75176.
I found some RS485 wireless bridges on Ali. I may give this a go...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes,of course. If there is something out of the box, there is no need to build it by your self.
You can use every ac inverter. You just have to integrate them in the vrm. You can use the EM24 or a tasmota device to do so.
So flashing a Sonoff with Tasmota will work with the VRM?
Shelly devices will work fine too
Nice Andy :). Is there list of which Grid tie inverters will work with the multiplus. Or in my case an EasySolar (as the older one I have is simply a multiplus with two MPPTs bolted to the side).
Oh and do you know if Victron have software for Linux So I can connect my USB to rj45 link to the multiplus?
can you load both ESS assistant and PV inverter support into the victron and use at the same time? I mean use grid tie mode but also having PV inverter on the AC output of the Victron
Yes, you can. In case you grid fails, the AC-coupled solar will still work and charge the battery. The MP will increase frequency when the battery is full. Once the grid returns, frequency goes back to 50Hz and AC solar will start producing again and export the surplus.
The PV Inverter Assistant needs to be at the end of the list as it says in the manual.
Would be awesome if Marsrock offered a 110 VAC version too. I would buy it.
They don't? Get in touch with them and ask...
Can we use hoymiles or any microinverter with off grid hybrid inverter ?
It gets better. Not only will the micro-grid shutdown, but because it is shutdown the micro-inverters can't be bootstrapped / restarted on sun-up the next day (for example). So in an off-grid setup with micro-inverters (also known as "AC-coupled" solar) you ALSO need sufficient DC-coupled solar to charge the batteries in the morning so the master inverter can turn on the grid, before the micro-inverters are able to contribute anything.
That is only if the battery goes flat during the night and shut's down the Multiplus though. They you would be in a deadlock without DC chargers.
I have been looking into options for adding more power. AC Coupling a grid-tie inverter on the Multiplus AC-Out (on it's microgrid) works but... the catch is the AC Coupled inverters cannot exceed the rating of the Multiplus providing the microgrid. In the event of a load dump (AC trips out) the multiplus will momentarily find itself handling a lot of AC current headed to the battery and a potentially huge voltage spike on the AC side before the Multiplus has a chance to alter the phase to stop the AC inverter which can cause damage to the multi-plus the AC inverter and any loads. Victron claim a 1.0 factor rule, which I believe means teh Multiplus providing the micro-grid can only support it's own rating in AC Coupled grid-tie inverters.
The other technique you used in previous videos (cascasing) is not supported by Victron and unfortunately in my case I would still need another "Multiplus" as I have a Grid AC In for fallback to consider and a cheaper "Pheonix" inverter will not provide an AC passthrough.
I figure I will end up with another multiplus, the pair cascaded to save power or in parallel.
It is different in your case when you're still connected to the grid. My AC-in is free, so it can be a gen or another inverter to feed power into the grid.
I've read some comments about the AC coupling in the Victron forum... an alternative could also be using Node Red or HA to just disconnect the AC inverter with a Sonoff or Shelly. If things get out of control.
I would like to know if it would be possible to use the ET112 meter on the Grid-Tie microinverter to monitoring and to display on the VRM portal.
But I would be more interested in using the ET112 meter to display AC load data in the VRM portal when using DC/AC inverter other than Victron. I've tried to figure this out multiple times and it works for some and not for others. Some have posted that Victron is blocking this option because they want only their DC/AC inverters to be used.
That will definitely work with the ET112. It will show any AC power and you just define in Victron what this power is, either a load or a non-Victron inverter.
The problem is, that it can only be connected via RS485 even they use RJ45 jacks on the front. It's not ethernet though...
Andy, connect a power over Ethernet plug from your route to the pool fence.
I wasn't aware the the energy monitor does not use ethernet but RS485. It's just the port which is a RS485 jack
"I have permission from my local government in the house, my wife, to put more solar panels.." Burped coffee when I heard that.
im currently researching a system for my micro camper for my electric bike,there will be 2 x 250 or 300watt panels on the roof and batteries will be 48 volt system of lithiums,these batteries also connect to the bike aswell via 3 dc to dc 40 amp boost converters in parallel im also looking at 4 or 5 really thin semi flexible panels that i can just layout in the sun when im camping and slide back under then bed when travelling,id love to go victron for all items but they arnt cheap here now in australia
Victron is not cheap, no. The quality, support and flexibility is very high though.
You can just use one of these foldable solar panels as additional power source.
Hi,
what would I need if I'd like to connect this micro-inverter directly to the schuko outlet (grid) without any other inverter?
As I'd like to find a "cheaper" version of Ecoflow Powerstream, but without the need for charging a battery via micro-inverter...
Thanks!
That's the first time I've heard you mention HomeAssistant. Are you thinking of setting that up? HomeAssistant has been crucial to my off-grid setup, not only for displaying data, but running automations based on SOC of my battery system. I emailed you a tutorial on setting up Victron to send data to HA some time ago :)
I have already set it up. More in the next video...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia oh man, I think home assistant is going to open up a whole new world for you...
Ha ha @ 25:30. “We have all this space here where we can add more panels, this could actually work” > quickly checks to see if wife is watching :-D
I'll do it step by step and after some time, she won't notice any more 😂
You can connect 2 Panels in serial and an second string in parallel. So you will have unter 60VDC and round about 16A per MPPT.
Well, not with my panels, they would be close to 80V Voc and the parallel current would be over 16A.
You've probably seen the RS485 to Zigbee bridges already. Victron sell some (slightly more expensive), but they work well with the Carlo Gavazzi meters.
Not so much with Actrel & Eastron, there I've only got it to work for monophase meters. Three phase installations, always need to be wired in my experience (would love to hear if someone has a solution)!
I have a Zigbee network inside the house for lights and smart plugs. Not sure if the signal would reach back to the garage. Maybe a repeater somewhere on the outside....
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You could (maybe should) make a separate Zigbee network for this application. I think it would easily reach the fence from the garage as it is open air.
Yes video👍⚡ 🔌💡🔋
Hi! Is there a way to do this with on grid setup? Br
27:00 you can use the victron zigbee bridges.
Aren't you worried one day you might plug one of these things in and end up back in 1955?!
It already happend once to me... I'm from the future 🤖
Hello cuando pongas el fronius en ac coupling cargaras las baterías como toca
Hi Andy. So now you need a meter to measure the energy and its flow direction on the output. Maybe you should think about that 😉.
Edit: haha, you already have such meters, great 😂
Yes, I have a few options now, thanks to all of you...
Sigineer, i dont know about all, have the frequency shift feature to shut down any or most grid tie inverters. These same inverters, i believe the larger kw variety can use 12s lithium ion so tesla models work with the 48v inverter. There is even charging setting for this configuration of 12s.
You'll not get them added before weekend, its due to be sunny, and I'm running an entire mountain bike race off my solar - my problem at the moment is using power to have room to create solar. You are in the 8's - this week I have you beat :) could have beat you today if the battery wasn't full ;)
And yes, old panels, 16A is unlikely - go for it.
Nice! Good work with your setup. I'm enjoying your videos form time to time...
They actually output 7.5A at 200W so 2 of them in parallel may be a bit too much.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia that's a close call, but doubling the panels per microinverter could save a fortune if you want to put say 16 panels on the roof - 2 x 2000w 2-per-string microinverters or 4 of if you are just doing single panels.
May do a video this weekend of running (another) event off my van system - lots of new loads this year, including charging ebikes and extra fridges - maybe even a 2nd catering (pizza) van on the power network.
And its Sunny hot England at the moment :)
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I win today :) England is sunnier and hottier than Australia ;)
Servus Andy,
von Victron gibt es RS485 zu Zigbee Konverter. Suche mal nach Victron und 392495…
Sonnige Grüße aus Österreich!
Robert
If had one per PV panel if a tree cast's a shadow on that one panel the entire string doesn't drop in power output just that one panel. Would that be how it works if had one per panel. I know the one you bought was made for more than one panel.
Has anyone attempted an off grid setup with victron and SolarEdge? Interested to hear how the frequency shifting work when that batteries were full.
Yes no problems since 2011 every Solar grid inverter have this fonction in Europe
wireless comms to the ET112 is via the Zigbee to USB converter & Zigbee to RS485 📡📶📡
Yes, thank you. I already have a Zigbee network so that may actually work...
Be aware your cable is no longer protected !
The cable is protected from the garage, say 3 kw and it is protected from your micro inv. With 2.2 kw but if your pool-pump fails is has 5.2 kw to draw from.
Can the cable handel the load ?
As always good video 😊
Yes, as you have seen in the video, I used an additional RCD and breaker (10A) to connect the inverter. The cable is 2.5mm so is good for 20A.
Be aware that this breaker will not prevent this situation unless there is also a separate breaker for the pump itself. Basically you need to have breakers in all 3 directions: to the garage, to the microinverter and to any consumer connected on the same cable.