Awesome to see the review. This is the paddle I currently play with and switched from the DBD because I think it is better on every measure. I've only, however, used the 10gr cap and will explore the 15gr based on seeing this review. Thanks John
Good stuff, I’ve been interested in exactly this question. I wish there was a way to objectively measure hand speed so we could see the magnitude of impact from the change in swing weight vs change in balance point
Right, swing speed and acceleration would be really useful to know. And to see how these variables scale with overall mass with respect to ball velocity
Interesting concept for the paddle the only thing I’m not sold on is the twist weight other then that I think the customization and potential to have consistent swing weight with elevated power and pop makes it a nice consideration for up and coming developments.
Great video! Lots of interesting data points to consider for paddle companies moving forward. Although I never was able to add lead tape to the buttcap of my paddle, I tested lead tape along the handle and wrapping an overgrip over it. I wonder if an easy setup for most paddles and male players (usually going heavier weight), would be to: - Static Weight to 8.5oz = F=m*a, reasonable weight to optimize that part of the force formula - Lead Tape at 4 and 8 o'clock = Best Twist Weight boost, with lowest Swing Weight effect - Lead Tape 2x opposing sides of the handle, under the overgrip = Increase mass, without affecting swingweight Desired Outcome: 1. Pull out the most pop+power through low balanced mass 2. Get the twist weight benefit of lead tape
I just started using a Prokennex Black Ace and it is the same static weight as my 16mm Vatic Flash but the swing rate of the Black Ace is 105 vs 115. I also notice more speed in the flicks and way less stress on the forearm extensor muscles and elbows. I can see why many people with tennis elbow use Prokennex.
I've been customizing my tennis racquets with weight under the buttcap for decades now. And when I have a head heavy or high swingweight paddle (i.e. Joola Hyperion) I'll attach 10g-15g lead to the buttcap with electrical tape. Though not huge, I can feel an improvement in maneuverability which feels like faster hands. Didn't occur to me to think about pop/power. When I mentioned this 2 years ago on Reddit, most ridiculed this idea. I suspect that players who choke up on their handles will notice more impact - same way a baton twirler can really accelerate a baton when twirling at the center. This might relate to your torque comment (guessing this is related to rotational inertia around the center of mass or balance point).
This a great review based on a sound "scientific approach" - I hope most manufacturers would apply sound science when designing their paddles and rely less on marketing hype :) I have a quick question tangentially related to this topic ... Would shortening a handle of a paddle (e.g. by cutting the end of the handle by 0.5" - from 5.5" to 5.0") noticeably decrease its swing weight and by such increase the paddle's maneuverability?
Did you test the paddle again after you added the lead tape w/the 30 grams in the handle? Did the lead tape negate any of the benefits to the wt in the handle? Seems that it would return the balance point to near the initial stock position. Interesting stuff. Thanks for all your posts!
I noticed on your database there are specs for the neonic flow. I hear a lot of reviewers say it’s very soft and control but your pop number suggest it’s a lot more poppy. Did you test the beta or the newer blue one?
Thanks John for this. Curious since I play a "ping pong" grip, would a weighted handle really help my elbow issue. Also considering drillingout a spot in the end and inserting a steel rod piece like a machine pin or the like.Would like any help with my scared over elbow injury. Not inflamation, tendon is scared from years of abuse turning wrenches.
Do you think I could get a similar effect on my Six Zero Ruby by removing the grip and then adding lead tape on the most distal half of the handle before regrippong and adding overgrip?
@@robedwards6926 yep! It does but i think it is worth the slight increase in head weight. I used to put weight on the sides of my paddles too but didn’t need to so in the end my paddle is heavier then my older paddles but still with a lighter headweight.
I’m not a big fan of modular designs. I prefer to buy a paddle, optimized by the company, that suits me out of the box. I can also imagine the modular weight flying out of the paddle and hitting me into the face, potentially causing serious injury. Moving parts = less durability.
Thanks John. I realize that in your work you likely use grams and centimeters but most of us in the U.S. can relate to ounces and inches. Not to mention other than thickness paddles are measured in ounces and inches so adding 10 grams of weight or moving the balance point 1.5 centimeters just causes us all to go to google to do the translations in order to understand how it relates to the paddle. Appreciate the consideration.
I don’t have an issue with grams and centimeters. I can easily do the conversions (within my tolerances) in my head. Grams and centimeters are more precise in my opinion. Still working on temperature conversions though! 😂
not sold on the weights in the handle...looks like a gimmick to sell paddles to the uninformed users....the 4 and 8 oclock weights would do more for the new players without them guessing what worked best for them, 10, 20 or 30 grams in the handle etc....if a paddle company does anything, they should make adjustable weights on the tops and sides before they do anything else...not the handle, not the throat (rokne aero blade, adidas metal) to improve play
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Your reviews are getting better and better! Love the format tweaks....good additions!
Nice review. I’ve been putting weight in my handle for years, so I like that you have actual measurements that I can compare to what I feel
Awesome to see the review. This is the paddle I currently play with and switched from the DBD because I think it is better on every measure. I've only, however, used the 10gr cap and will explore the 15gr based on seeing this review. Thanks John
Cool, yeah, I was surprised that the cap weight made such a difference in performance
Good stuff, I’ve been interested in exactly this question. I wish there was a way to objectively measure hand speed so we could see the magnitude of impact from the change in swing weight vs change in balance point
Right, swing speed and acceleration would be really useful to know. And to see how these variables scale with overall mass with respect to ball velocity
Interesting concept for the paddle the only thing I’m not sold on is the twist weight other then that I think the customization and potential to have consistent swing weight with elevated power and pop makes it a nice consideration for up and coming developments.
Have you been able to test out the j2k sword and shield yet? Would love to see a review or thoughts on their product.
Great video! Lots of interesting data points to consider for paddle companies moving forward.
Although I never was able to add lead tape to the buttcap of my paddle, I tested lead tape along the handle and wrapping an overgrip over it.
I wonder if an easy setup for most paddles and male players (usually going heavier weight), would be to:
- Static Weight to 8.5oz = F=m*a, reasonable weight to optimize that part of the force formula
- Lead Tape at 4 and 8 o'clock = Best Twist Weight boost, with lowest Swing Weight effect
- Lead Tape 2x opposing sides of the handle, under the overgrip = Increase mass, without affecting swingweight
Desired Outcome:
1. Pull out the most pop+power through low balanced mass
2. Get the twist weight benefit of lead tape
Great Idea, its now paddle analysis paralysis! I wish I could of seen how you tested the twist weight, the chart was covering the screen.
I just started using a Prokennex Black Ace and it is the same static weight as my 16mm Vatic Flash but the swing rate of the Black Ace is 105 vs 115. I also notice more speed in the flicks and way less stress on the forearm extensor muscles and elbows. I can see why many people with tennis elbow use Prokennex.
I've been customizing my tennis racquets with weight under the buttcap for decades now. And when I have a head heavy or high swingweight paddle (i.e. Joola Hyperion) I'll attach 10g-15g lead to the buttcap with electrical tape. Though not huge, I can feel an improvement in maneuverability which feels like faster hands. Didn't occur to me to think about pop/power. When I mentioned this 2 years ago on Reddit, most ridiculed this idea. I suspect that players who choke up on their handles will notice more impact - same way a baton twirler can really accelerate a baton when twirling at the center. This might relate to your torque comment (guessing this is related to rotational inertia around the center of mass or balance point).
This a great review based on a sound "scientific approach" - I hope most manufacturers would apply sound science when designing their paddles and rely less on marketing hype :)
I have a quick question tangentially related to this topic ...
Would shortening a handle of a paddle (e.g. by cutting the end of the handle by 0.5" - from 5.5" to 5.0") noticeably decrease its swing weight and by such increase the paddle's maneuverability?
Kewl review John!
John Kewl
Did you test the paddle again after you added the lead tape w/the 30 grams in the handle? Did the lead tape negate any of the benefits to the wt in the handle? Seems that it would return the balance point to near the initial stock position. Interesting stuff. Thanks for all your posts!
Interesting concept, got me thinking. Instead of buying gryp paddle, try to lay lead tape along handle before regripping…hmmm
I noticed on your database there are specs for the neonic flow. I hear a lot of reviewers say it’s very soft and control but your pop number suggest it’s a lot more poppy. Did you test the beta or the newer blue one?
Could you just wrap a little lead tape around the bottom of the handle to get the same effect as a the cap?
Thanks John for this. Curious since I play a "ping pong" grip, would a weighted handle really help my elbow issue. Also considering drillingout a spot in the end and inserting a steel rod piece like a machine pin or the like.Would like any help with my scared over elbow injury. Not inflamation, tendon is scared from years of abuse turning wrenches.
How much does the balance point contribute to the Swing weight? I know generally if head heavy, higher swing weight.
Hi John, what holds the weight in place and stops it from flying out? Is it a compression fitting?
Hey John, it snaps into place. Not the greatest explanation but it has ridges that keep it from coming out.
Do you think I could get a similar effect on my Six Zero Ruby by removing the grip and then adding lead tape on the most distal half of the handle before regrippong and adding overgrip?
For sure, you can add lead tape under the stock grip. It’s just harder to tweak back and forth, and it adds girth to the grip
Have you played with the 15 gram or 25? How did it compare to the 30 gram?
I’ve played with them all and like the 25g the best.
@@artslim1 Any lead with the 25g?
@@robedwards6926 yeah I add a little around the neck. Helps with stability and makes it feel a little more plush.
@artslim1 The sides help the most with stability and sweet spot. However, the swingweight does increase a bit more than on throat.
@@robedwards6926 yep! It does but i think it is worth the slight increase in head weight. I used to put weight on the sides of my paddles too but didn’t need to so in the end my paddle is heavier then my older paddles but still with a lighter headweight.
I’m not a big fan of modular designs. I prefer to buy a paddle, optimized by the company, that suits me out of the box. I can also imagine the modular weight flying out of the paddle and hitting me into the face, potentially causing serious injury. Moving parts = less durability.
Thanks John. I realize that in your work you likely use grams and centimeters but most of us in the U.S. can relate to ounces and inches. Not to mention other than thickness paddles are measured in ounces and inches so adding 10 grams of weight or moving the balance point 1.5 centimeters just causes us all to go to google to do the translations in order to understand how it relates to the paddle. Appreciate the consideration.
Cool, good to know, and thanks for the feedback
I don’t have an issue with grams and centimeters. I can easily do the conversions (within my tolerances) in my head. Grams and centimeters are more precise in my opinion. Still working on temperature conversions though! 😂
Are you serious?
not sold on the weights in the handle...looks like a gimmick to sell paddles to the uninformed users....the 4 and 8 oclock weights would do more for the new players without them guessing what worked best for them, 10, 20 or 30 grams in the handle etc....if a paddle company does anything, they should make adjustable weights on the tops and sides before they do anything else...not the handle, not the throat (rokne aero blade, adidas metal) to improve play
I thought the same thing until I tried it. Definitely makes a difference. Not massive but noticeable.
Some already do Master Athletics for one.
It should make a difference. In tennis folks have been doing this for a while and it works.
Promo sm