PTR-91 Pt. 12, Setting Battle Zero on a HK91, G3 or PTR Style Rifle
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- By RUclipsr request.
Meters vs Yards. The original HK sights are set in meters. The PTR owners manual states to set zero in "yards". A fellow RUclipsr pointed out the discrepancy.
I called PTR. The info I was given was that the HK sights were indeed in Meters. PTR now manufactures the rear sight drum assembly. According to the PTR rep. I spoke with they haven't changed the specs for the drum. He stated that they have modified the front sight post hight slightly.
So if you have a rifle built with HK sight parts, it is in meters. The current PTR manual states the adjustments for their sights are in yards, which is due to a altered front sight post (per PTR). I was unable to get a date when the transition from HK "meter" to PTR "yard" front sight posts was made.
MG-42.net G3 Zero Instructions-
mg-42.net/sight...
Thanks for the info. here; I ended up using a large pair of tweezers as a sight adjustment tool on my 91. Worked just fine, as did the rifle.
Dude your PTR videos are great keep em coming
A yard is a meter to me as I am a pacer .Anyhow.I found your video very helpfull.Easy and right to the points. Thank you for the info and good job.
1m = 1.09 yards, if it matters to you in your particular situation. At close-medium ranges, the difference is negligible in most applications.
The G3 was a great military battle rifle in it's day, but it's civilian heir, the HK91 and clones, is still an ideal survivalist rifle. It's kick kind of bucks around because of the delayed blowback rollers,, but it's violent action is the secret of it's reliability. I got a Williams set trigger and ergonomic handle job on mine, and that took care of the HK's robust but stiff trigger problem. Back in 1993 I had a tough decision to make. I and my future wife were stuck in Alaska and needed money to leave before another winter, and I had to sell a couple of guns. I sold my beloved Steyr AUG and GB pistol, but kept my HK and tricked out Remington 870, because those are core guns. I doubt I'll ever need my firearms, but if I do, those are the ones that will work. Sure, I'd like a SCAR, but they are over $4000! That just makes me like my HK91 more.
Scar is alright. You will have better ergos and accuracy. I'd get an ar10 over a scar
@@hambone950 Since that post, I bought an IWI Tavor 7 and the light-weight .308 POF Rogue AR. Very happy with both.
@@universeconsciouscitizensc592 still have the hk?
@@chucksneedmoreland I do and it's as beautiful as ever.
@@universeconsciouscitizensc592 you tried upgrading the stock to a m4 style collapsing stock?
The G3/HJK91 drum sight is designed to be zeroed for a 200m far-zero and 30m near-zero, as your presentation notes. That's your battle-sight zero (BSZ) from 0-300m, center-mass hold. The rear sight for CQB, marked "1" isn't - as is commonly assumed - point-of-aim equals point-of-impact at 100m. Rather it uses the same BSZ as the "2" aperture, just with a wider and faster-to-use v-notch for snap-shooting. The thinking there was that the soldier would place the entire ring around the front sight "in the v-notch" of the "1" setting, for CQB and snap-shooting. The remaining 2 settings, "3" for 300-400m, and "4" for 400-500m, are the other adjustments available. By setting the sight on 400m, and holding at a specified distance above the target, the soldier could reach out to 500 or 600m as well. Which is probably as far as most soldiers can manage under field combat conditions using iron sights. For longer shots, a 4x optic from Hensoldt-Zeiss was standard equipment in the old days, and undoubtedly newer optics are available to today's Bundeswehr designated marksmen. But if you plan on precision shooting with an HK91/G3, get a trigger job. You'll be glad you did.
Great video. My question is, do you turn counterclockwise to raise elevation?
If your target is close, 50 meters or less...... don't bother with the rear sight, both eyes open look over the rifle and use the front sight only, that's what's it's designed for and that's why it's so big.
This is some fudd shit if I'd ever seen it
@@Rangefinder211 ok then, if your live armed moving target is 20 feet in front of you....go ahead and take time to get a good cheek weld, get good site picture and practice good trigger squeeze and breathing.......i promise you, you won't survive
@kurtrussell5228 take ur meds gramps this isn't Korea
@@Rangefinder211 whatever you say pal........whatever you say...
@kurtrussell5228 okay boomer
Protip: just the tip and only for a moment.
Black industrial sharpie marker will cover thoes shiny spots on ur sight w a semi permanent matte blk finish. I imagine in the field the sunlight glaring off thoes shiners could be really problematic.
Wow. And I've been just spinning that damn thing with my fingers at the range, getting frustrated because ITS STILL SHOOTING LOW AND LEFT. Lmao
What mount would you recommend for the GI version without rails?
An aftermarket sight tool is available at HK parts for $20
There sure is. When I bought the rifle the available choices were the other two @ $45 and $88. The tool you mentioned comes to just under $26 shipped. Thats a big improvement in pricing, but many people will only use the tool once. Everyone will need to make the call if it worth it to them or not. Thank you for the input. www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-Rear-Sight-Tool-Aftermarket-123p16511.htm
@@TheBrackishCoast I still cant get my tool to work it seems like it's not gripping the detente. any advice?
@@actually_a_circle I dont know what to tell you if I cant really see what's going on. Sorry.
I was surprised it needs so fuss to just turn the drum. Greek made G3's I used while I did my service in the army needed no tool to fix the sight, a little force and locked into next position.
Thanks for the video! I make a tool for my sight out of E-clip pliers and two nails. Worked out great!
Thank you.
Which way is up and which way is down on the elevation?
My particular PTR91, I had to move my rear sight all the way to the left.
Mine as well
I did too and I am only shooting just barely right of center at 30 meters.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
My range only has 25, 50, 100, 200, and 330 yard berms. Using the MG-42.net graph at the end of the video where should my impacts be @ 25 and/or 50 yards using the 30/200 meter zero?
It would be slightly low at 25 yards. According to the chart it will be 3.15 high at 100 using the 200 aperture. So it should be roughly around 3/4"-1" high at 50. Then verify at 200.
***** Thanks. Should have a milsurp 4x scope & claw mount by x-mas which will make it much easier to zero hopefully.
Just dialed mine in. i didn't prefer the 100m CQB sight picture as much so I planned on setting the 200m peep hole as my 100 m sight. I ended up bottoming out the barrel with no more to thread in so that didn't work. BUT this setting ended up putting me absolutely dead nuts on my elevation at 50y and 100 y on the 100 m CQB sight. 145 Wolf 7.64 NATO
@ Jeff: Don't know if this is of use to you at such a late date, but the rear drum was designed to be zeroed for a 200m battle-sight zero (BSZ) with a near-zero of 30m (= 33 yards). The rear v-notch marked "1" isn't for 100m per se, as it also works using the 200m BSZ. The designers just provided the v-setting to allow faster snap-shots at close ranges, figuring - probably correctly - that the small 200m aperture was too fine for that. That leaves either the "1" or "2" setting from 0-300, the "3" setting for 3-400m, and the "4" setting for anything past that. The recruits were taught that they could also engage targets out to 500 & 600 meters by using the "4" setting and the appropriate holdover.
Does the same apply to the ptr32 and the hk93???
I don't know. Sorry.
Using the #2 Diopter near zero at 30m and far zero at 200m assumes a given bullet weight/type and powder/primer combo. Does the manual specify what ammo should be used for this process?
The chart linked in the description and shown in the video states "G3" and "NATO ammo". A 18" (17.7") barrel and 147gr NATO M80 ball @ 2,733fps are by far the most common and likely variables in those two categories. I used 145gr Brown Bear .308 rated at 2,756fps with successful results. The PTR manual (available online) just states they recommend .308 or 7.62 NATO that is commercially manufactured.
The G3 - HK91 type rifle was designed to fire the NATO 7.62x51 service round, M80 Ball (FMJ), which is 145-150 grains (depending on manufacturer). Typical MV from a 22 inch barrel rifle is 2800 fps, so probably 2700-2750 fps range from the 18-inch PTR barrel, but you'll have to chronograph your particular rifle to be sure, since each barrel is different and even NATO-spec loads differ somewhat from manufacturer to manufacturer. If you can, score some Hirtenberger 147-grain Ball, which is German mil-spec. ammunition. That should perform well. Any NATO spec M80 Ball should be fine.
@ SA Bjork: Ammo would be NATO standard M80 Ball/FMJ, 147-grains, with ~ 2800 fps out of a 22-inch barrel. Assuming a loss of about 30 feet per second/inch of barrel length lost, an 18-inch tube ought to do around 2675-2680 fps. But the only way to know for sure is to do doppler radar on it or chronograph it to get the MV from your specific rifle and load. Ammunition bearing the headstamp "MEN" for Metallwerk Elisenhütte G.m.b.H., is well-known as being very high-quality when available on the surplus market. That's what the German military uses, but any nation's ammo bearing the NATO circle-cross stamp should be made to NATO-wide standardization agreement ("STANAG") specifications and be as good or almost as good.
any ideda what grain bullet the sights are calibrated for /velocity i reload and i'm in the process of trading a ar-15 for one and know that a diferent weight bullet will impact differently than the one origonaly made for
I'm no expert, but from what I've read the rifle was designed to shoot 147gr M80 7.62 NATO @just over 2,700fps.
Thanks looks like I'm going to have to make a bullet(component) run my bolt guns use 155\178 gr.
It's my understanding that these shoot 140-168gr well. Unfortunately other projects and ammo cost and availability have put this project on the back burner. I'd like to do some ammo experimenting this summer.
***** Have an old HK91 sighted in years ago with m80 ball it will put any brand 150 grain .308 factory loads within 3 to 4 inches of point of aim at 100 yards
Designed to fire NATO standard 7.62x51 FMJ M80 Ball, 147-grain. Weight varies from 145-150-grains, depending on manufacturer.
Question, I am thinking about getting one of these for a long range toy. How good are they out past 500 yards? Couple co-workers and i are wanting to go shoot up to 1k. and I really want one of these to do it, but if they cant ill try to change my mind.
I live in Maryland, so it's hard to find a range beyond 300yrds around here. So at the moment that is the farthest I've used I've used it. It has worked fine at 300yrds with irons thus far. But that is also the practical limit of my eyesight with irons. This is a video of one being taken out a bit further. It's a HK but, the PTR's are pretty much on par. "H&K G3, 570 yds, ball ammo" by BuggetNuster
PTR-91s are capable of excellent accuracy. Some models have a match-grade barrel, for example. However, the OEM triggers are lousy, so be prepared to get a trigger job or purchase an aftermarket trigger if you want to do LR work. Get one with a P-rail on top, too, since G3/HK91s without it are difficult to scope and require a special claw mount. With an 18-inch barrel, you'll surrender a little muzzle velocity compared to a longer-barreled rifle, but the PTR can still do the job with the right ammunition and someone behind it who knows his stuff. Don't plan on going out to 1,000 meters with the iron sights on the rifle; they only go out to 400 meters.
@ Andrew Pike: If this is still of use to you after so long.... here goes.... The German army (Bundeswehr) and a lot of other nations and their armies still employ the G3-CETME family of rifles (they are related designs) as their standard service rifle, or in some sort of specialist capacity such as a sniper/DMR/precision rifle. Generally, they are fine rifles, with excellent barrels, so they have the accuracy potential... though they are not without drawbacks. The biggest of these is the OEM trigger, which is very heavy and not well-suited to precision work. Get a trigger job or substitute in a better one suited for match-grade results. Back in the old days, it used to be a pain in the you-know-where to scope a G3 since it took a special claw mount. The claw usually held a Zeiss-Hensoldt fixed 4x power scope with BDC. Excellent scope, but the mount often did not hold zero due to the harsh recoil of the operating system. I think the Germans had to put a recoil lug in their mount to keep them from creeping out of alignment under heavy use. Today with so many manufacturers of these rifles putting P-rails on them standard, that problem is no longer an issue, or as much of one. Just get a high-quality optic which can stand up to hard use and you should be OK. Many users want a longer length of pull, so replace the OEM stock with something more modern. Final touch is to upgrade the recoil spring and buffer to make that less-harsh.
Properly set-up and using match-grade ammo, there's no reason a G3 shouldn't shoot into 1.5 moa or better. The 7.62x51 cartridge is excellent at close-to-intermediate ranges, but it is not ideal as a true LR precision rifle cartridge, which is why some alternatives to it have been tried by various armies. However, it is an excellent all-around performer, and if you take the time to learn it, it can do many - if not absolutely all - jobs well.
I believe the world-record for a confirmed combat kill using 7.62 NATO is around 1250 meters, which is equivalent to nearly 1367 yards, or about 34ths of a mile. With a .308, that's a heck of a shot. That was done in Iraq by a U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliland in 2005 using an M24 rifle.
The virtue of learning LR shooting on the .308 is that it is cheap, well-sorted out as to dope, and if you can learn to shoot it well in the wind and at distance, cartridges with better ballistic characteristics ought to be easy for you, such as the 300 Win-Mag, 6.5 Creedmoor, etc.
This is an old post but you’d be better off getting a bolt action rifle in 6.5 creedmoor that’s made for long range. Most battle type rifles have accuracy of several moa. 6.5 creedmoor is better than 308 past 400 yards. Bolt action rifles are generally more accurate than semi autos also.
Sights on my battle rifle
very interesting bro'
To your knowledge, can you shoot soft point ammo in a PTR-91?
I don't see why not, but I haven't tried soft point ammo in it. So I can not say for sure.
I have . and YES
10 years later here... bought a new kit built PTR91 and just ran a box of Hornady American Whitetail through it. The results were quite accurate (~1.1MOA @ 200yd) and no malfunctions.
Where should you set the diopter to zero at 50 yards?
C. Welch- Using the info from the chart (linked in the description) and some shaky math skills......It looks like it’d impact roughly 2/3 of an inch high @50yrds using the 30/200m method. This is a ballpark zero method. Always confirm your rifle @ the desired zero distance (200m in this case). Each rifle and load will have a slight variance.
TheBrackishCoast thanks. Trying to do what I wish PTR had. Much appreciated.
Re: "Where should you set the diopter to zero at 50 yards?" - The rear sight isn't set up to zero directly for fifty yards since it is graduated in meters (1m = 1.09 yd.) and the sights are designed around a 200m battle-sight zero using M80 Ball/147-grain 7.62x51 NATO FMJ. MV varies, but ought to be around 2675 fps from an 18-inch barrel. Using a sight height over bore of 1.75" a 200m zero gives point-of-impact ~ 1.25 inches high at 50m (55 yds.). In practice, your 200m zero isn't going to be all that far off a 50yd. zero. The v-notch also works off the same zero. It is not - repeat not - designed for zeroing at 100m. The v-notch/100m setting is simply to make closer-shots/snap-shots easier. If it really matters to you, you could probably dial in a true 50 yard (45.8m) zero using the 200m setting as your starting point, but then your "3" and "4" apertures would be off slightly.
German army doctrine was to do the initial zeroing-in using M80 Ball at 30m, and then check it for accuracy at 200 meters using the "2" setting on the rear sight.
I found the lethermen oth
Can the rear sight be removed?
Yes. It's just screwed on.
polinchw
Yes,you’ll have to remove it to mount a rifle scope,or the eyepiece of the scope will be sitting on the rear sight.
My rifle did NOT have the welded picatinny rail installed.I had to buy the “claw mount” base.It’s pricey,but it’s solid and works GREAT.
I put a Bushnell fixed 10X Tactical Scope on mine.
It’s a Great combo.
Be aware,the Bushnell Tactical fixed 10X is not the traditional
1 click = 1/4” @ 100yds.
It’s closer to 1 click = 1/3” @ 100 yds.I learned that the hard,& expensive way.
Once you’re dialed in,it’s Deadly accurate.Sending my trigger group to Co.for a trigger job by Bill Springfield.
He claims to be able to bring it down to around 4.5lbs. on the trigger-pull.Thats MUCH better than the typical 10-11lb.spongey trigger they come with originally.
It’s $69.00 inc shipping both ways.
Turnaround time is approx.10 days.
I’m also installing a Muzzle Brake by Precision Armament M4-72 that’s supposed to reduce the felt recoil by 60-70%.
I can do that myself but you’ll need to get the washers to aid in the timing of the brake.
I got them both from Brownells.
I’m originally an M1A Sup Match fan,but I can’t drop $2500.00 on a rifle that’s extremely difficult to mount a scope on.I competed w/one for 11 years in DCM aka CMP but with peep sights only.
If you’re considering buying a .308 semi-auto,& wanting to mount optics on it,go with something other than an M1A.
I speak from experience.
@@Docsjeff bill brought mine down to 4.5 lbs, he did an excellent job and was fast.