I have Merida scultura rim 100 and it's really nice bike, has the same frame as yours but for rim brakes. Also seatpost is the same. I had the same problem on my bike and decided to change my stem to 80 mm, but right now I am going to change my seatpost and put the previous stem back. Really nice video sir!
An epiphany well done, sir. Trackies sit up over the crank for awesome, high cadence power on their fixies. 75 degree seat posts are common. I believe triathlon bikes also have steep seat posts. They open up the angle between legs and upper body scrunched down on the aero bars.. I suspect the Merida is 73 degrees and the Canyon must be 74 degrees, common for aggressive road bikes, probably like your Canyon. I ride mostly on a 73 degree seat post commuter bike. When I get on the "vintage" '84 DeRosa, 74 degree seat tube, the last bikes Eddy raced on,, it feels like one gear higher for the same effort. The legs can just stomp on the pedals at insane cadences. The upper body finds balance easily and adds to the effort. The movement is, as you describe, more vertical. It's all saddle setback. The aggressive posture is complemented by a steeper steering angle, 74 degrees, which I'm not seeing on the geometry charts these days. Today, road bike steering angles are much slacker, 71, 72 degrees, 73 degrees apparently now considered on the verge of skittish. When DeRosa sent frames to the US, they were intended for the criterium market, loops in office parks with tight turns and lots of sprints and accelerations out of the corners, flat out efforts. Steeper angles enables stomping on the pedals for all you're worth! DeRosa compensates for skitterish steering with a centimeter longer than typical top tube, so upper body is stretched out. Together with the steep seat tube, the riding becomes a whole body experience. Eddy Merckx showed how it's done in the old news reels of the mountain stages. He's fully engaged from the neck down, working the whole body powering thaose insane low gears, 42-21, 22, 25. Pros today look positively relaxed spinning a comfortable 85 rpm in their 39-28s. Their upper bodies aren't bobbing up and down nearly as purposeful. Does more laid back geometry have something to do with that? The 73 degree seat tube on the commuter increases the angle between legs and upper body, seemingly lessening the upper body from the effort. The legs turn circles in front of the upper body, not under it. I feel the increase in power every time I get on the DrRosa. Sprinters move up "on the rivet," the front of the saddle, in all out sprints. Do yuu know the angles on your two bikes? They tell a lot about what to expect. The saddle height, handlebar reach and drop on my two bikes is identical. The only difference is seat tube angle. It make all the difference, like you're saying!
You are absolutely right, great analysis! The Canyon is 73.79, the Merida 73. What it surprised me was how comfortable can be the Canyon even with a more aggressive position. That is why I wanted to replicate it exactly on the Merida.
Excellent video with very helpful information for us to ponder. I really wish the industry would go back to 27.2 seatposts. I love my Giant Tcr but I hate the proprietary seatpost as it's set back and I have my saddle all the way forward and still find myself sitting more towards the nose of the saddle.
I reached more or less the same conclusions for myself, but it was a bit of luck and not clearly thought out like you. I'll try your suggestion of changing the saddle post, thank you.
In all fairness I was lucky as well that the Canyon came with that seat angle and the online seatpost. Other higher models come with a seatpost that offers more set back and I could have ended up on a different setting. It's worth trying out!
Happy new year Federico. Very interesting, thank you for this. A couple of thoughts/questions; - are seat posts reversible, generally, meaning you can rotate it 180 degrees, and then slide the saddle forwards on its rails to get a slightly different position? - on a similar note, presumably your saddle rails on your old seatpost wouldn't allow you to slide the saddle forwards any more, to offset the built-in setback? Thanks! PS is your Canyon saddle tip quite nose down? The camera made it look like it, probably just the angles!
Thank you and Happy New Year to you. Some clamps are reversible, or maybe the whole seat post, but I guess it will depend on the brand. On my one it would not have worked. Yes, on the old seat post I could not push the saddle forward, I was going outside the rails range. The inline post was the only solution to get to the desired position. I try to set the saddle level where I am actually sitting, the nose of the Novus is naturally pointed down a bit, like a Selle SMP, but not that extreme. Might look pointed down, but it is not so much, maybe very slightly.
I've recently moved my saddle back 10mm as I've always felt like I had too weight on my hands, and this has helped, but I feel like I've lost power. Do you feel like you have weight on your hands being more forward? Great videos btw 👍🏼
Thank you Robert! If you are correctly set up on the saddle in terms of tilt (i.e. not too pointed down) you should not have excessive weight on the hands even if your position is a little bit more forward. I check that the part of the saddle I am sitting on is level.
@@fede1275 well it's ever since I've had a bike fit. But now you mention it he tilted my saddle down a few degrees (at the nose). Maybe I'll reset the setback and level the saddle and go from there 👍🏼. I have noticed I'm much more confident descending, with less weight on the front, so if I can keep the stability but get back the power I'll be happy. Thanks again for the reply
Wow. Too many variables in order to compare performance and Strava segments. Cleats are pulled back a lot. For me, 3 main elements were key: 1. Changed stem from 100 to 120mm. 2. Pedalstroke: foot is slightly pointing up when 1 or 2 o clock position. Compensating the powerless 5/6 o clock position. And finally, the last one, is fully engaged with your main topic here, to be able to "move" accordingly on the saddle. You will notice this on the especially soft and flexible selle Italia mp01 superflow, where the stiffness is at the front part. For pushing on flat roads. Similar to time trail modus.
By the way, the saddle has an official correct position: when crank is set at 3 o clock, knee should be parallel to the end of the crank/pedal. Right? I get the feeling that you might hurt yourself on the long-term
Hi Victor, I am not sure if there is such a correct position in terms of fore-aft. I believe the advice on the plumb line from the knee and the pedal spindle (similar to the set up you mentioned) has changed over the years. Same as when they mentioned you should not squat with your knee past your toes. In my case with the cleats pushed back on the shoes I don't feel pressure on the patella ligaments, but I agree some different leg lengths might need a different set up.
I think I have a similar case as you, my winter road bike is an Alu Cannondale, and my go to road bike is an Aeroad and the performance difference is also immense. I find it is not really the weight or the aerodynamics of the bike but the comfort altogether. My Cannondale has a seat post with 25 mm setback and I I can feel how it is really different way of applying power through the pedals. Need to maybe give a seat post with no set back as well one day. :)
After giving myself a sciatic injury on my Cannondale CAAD 10 I just changed my 45 setback to a 0 setback. I have only been a few miles, first ride again after several weeks off. I noticed a major difference already in how my lower body legs, pelvic etc align better.
@@samson2143 I hope it will work for you. Before making the change I tried moving on the saddle slightly trying to notice any improvement on the comfort or power on the pedals.
That’s the advantage of not having a dedicated / integrated seat post and stem. You can adjust and tweak the bike to your liking no special tool needed
You are right, I changed the Canyon bar and stem to the integrated one after having found the best position. I checked the stem and bar reach, luckily they matched perfectly.
Hi Federico - you don't like your bike getting dirty. Why don't you put mudguards on the Merida during the nastiest winter months? Keep the bike and yourself clean?
@@fede1275 I was exactly the same with mudguards on my winter bike, I made the jump this year and I can't believe how clean they keep me and the bike. I've resisted the advice from cycling friends for years 😂. I still think they look 💩 but definitely keeping lol
@@fede1275 just think not a very good look having brown muddy splatter on ones backside from riding without mud guards. Other people must get a good laugh thinking that rider looks like they 💩 themselves Lol
hi sir Federico i saw your stem is a little bit slam, im thinking if it safe for the steerer tube, i have merida scultura 400 and i try to slam my stem but i dont know how to remove the expander i cant see if the expander are long enough to cover the stembolt.
You are right, the fork should be cut to do things properly. Mine is only halfway down, I had the bike checked at my LBS and it seems okay. But yes, it should be cut. I will do it one day.
🚴♂❤❤🎆Hello, Warm wishes on New Year to all of our wonderful and very special friend. ❤ 🎉May you have a meaningful and successful year 2022 that brings you many joys and great big smiles!
How did you measure your “power”? I was once in the same delusion about my position related to bottom bracket, I thought position more over pedals is more powerful, but those non scientific experiments riding a bike often are misleading. The thing is, when you move your saddle forward you have to also adjust it higher, and when you move it backwards you have to adjust it lower! Otherwise it isn’t a fair comparison. Manufacturers use setback seatpostes for a reason, because siting slightly backwards bicyclist: 1. Siting more on the center mass of the bike which makes it more stable and safer, aka sports car weight distribution, also allows for more aerodynamic body position, and less weight on the wrists. 2. Allows for better reqruitment of hamstrings and gluts. 3. Creats more powerful peddling angle at the 12 - 14 o’clock position of the pedal.
I know it is not scientific, but straight away I noticed I was going through the same roads with a higher gear, I kept checking the times on my commute as I do all the same segments over the year. As I rotate the pelvis forward, to me a forward position is more efficient, I could compare this with the Canyon that was already more aggressive due to the different seat tube angle.
Exactly the same with me, but next time wasn’t the same again. Lots of things influence our “power”, it could be better recovery of muscles that day, it could be better absorption of nutrients, better hormonal spike, front wind etc, etc. And also the placebo effect when you are testing new thing and deep inside yourself expecting to find that “magic” position which will improve our racing performance:)
Your content is very practical and informative exactly which I was looking for. Thanks for sharing
Thank you, I appreciate it!
I have Merida scultura rim 100 and it's really nice bike, has the same frame as yours but for rim brakes. Also seatpost is the same. I had the same problem on my bike and decided to change my stem to 80 mm, but right now I am going to change my seatpost and put the previous stem back. Really nice video sir!
Thank you! Really a lot of bike for your money!! Definitely better with a zero set back saddle post for me.
Boy I got some work a head of me now. Thanks alot. Great video.
Great insight will consider how this applies to my ride
An epiphany well done, sir. Trackies sit up over the crank for awesome, high cadence power on their fixies. 75 degree seat posts are common. I believe triathlon bikes also have steep seat posts. They open up the angle between legs and upper body scrunched down on the aero bars.. I suspect the Merida is 73 degrees and the Canyon must be 74 degrees, common for aggressive road bikes, probably like your Canyon.
I ride mostly on a 73 degree seat post commuter bike. When I get on the "vintage" '84 DeRosa, 74 degree seat tube, the last bikes Eddy raced on,, it feels like one gear higher for the same effort. The legs can just stomp on the pedals at insane cadences. The upper body finds balance easily and adds to the effort. The movement is, as you describe, more vertical. It's all saddle setback.
The aggressive posture is complemented by a steeper steering angle, 74 degrees, which I'm not seeing on the geometry charts these days. Today, road bike steering angles are much slacker, 71, 72 degrees, 73 degrees apparently now considered on the verge of skittish.
When DeRosa sent frames to the US, they were intended for the criterium market, loops in office parks with tight turns and lots of sprints and accelerations out of the corners, flat out efforts. Steeper angles enables stomping on the pedals for all you're worth! DeRosa compensates for skitterish steering with a centimeter longer than typical top tube, so upper body is stretched out. Together with the steep seat tube, the riding becomes a whole body experience. Eddy Merckx showed how it's done in the old news reels of the mountain stages. He's fully engaged from the neck down, working the whole body powering thaose insane low gears, 42-21, 22, 25. Pros today look positively relaxed spinning a comfortable 85 rpm in their 39-28s. Their upper bodies aren't bobbing up and down nearly as purposeful. Does more laid back geometry have something to do with that?
The 73 degree seat tube on the commuter increases the angle between legs and upper body, seemingly lessening the upper body from the effort. The legs turn circles in front of the upper body, not under it. I feel the increase in power every time I get on the DrRosa. Sprinters move up "on the rivet," the front of the saddle, in all out sprints.
Do yuu know the angles on your two bikes? They tell a lot about what to expect. The saddle height, handlebar reach and drop on my two bikes is identical. The only difference is seat tube angle. It make all the difference, like you're saying!
You are absolutely right, great analysis! The Canyon is 73.79, the Merida 73. What it surprised me was how comfortable can be the Canyon even with a more aggressive position. That is why I wanted to replicate it exactly on the Merida.
Thank for being informative.😊
👍 👍
Excellent video with very helpful information for us to ponder.
I really wish the industry would go back to 27.2 seatposts. I love my Giant Tcr but I hate the proprietary seatpost as it's set back and I have my saddle all the way forward and still find myself sitting more towards the nose of the saddle.
Yes, with the modern bikes you should be more concerned about the sizing and geometry as changes are more difficult.
I reached more or less the same conclusions for myself, but it was a bit of luck and not clearly thought out like you. I'll try your suggestion of changing the saddle post, thank you.
In all fairness I was lucky as well that the Canyon came with that seat angle and the online seatpost. Other higher models come with a seatpost that offers more set back and I could have ended up on a different setting. It's worth trying out!
Thank you!
There's a front kicking theme going on here brother. I need some that action! The mid foot cleat position is the only way to go. Cheers man
Yes, it feels such a better and powerful position!
Thanks for sharing
Hi! Great insight on the Merida scultura position. Do you know if the disc version can take 700x30c tires?
Hi, this is one of the first generation disc brakes adaptations, it only goes up to 25c tyres.
Thanks for sharing. Will check out my bikes to make sure they are the same.
It is always interesting, at least to explain some performance differences if there are any.
Happy new year Federico.
Very interesting, thank you for this.
A couple of thoughts/questions;
- are seat posts reversible, generally, meaning you can rotate it 180 degrees, and then slide the saddle forwards on its rails to get a slightly different position?
- on a similar note, presumably your saddle rails on your old seatpost wouldn't allow you to slide the saddle forwards any more, to offset the built-in setback?
Thanks!
PS is your Canyon saddle tip quite nose down? The camera made it look like it, probably just the angles!
Thank you and Happy New Year to you. Some clamps are reversible, or maybe the whole seat post, but I guess it will depend on the brand. On my one it would not have worked.
Yes, on the old seat post I could not push the saddle forward, I was going outside the rails range. The inline post was the only solution to get to the desired position.
I try to set the saddle level where I am actually sitting, the nose of the Novus is naturally pointed down a bit, like a Selle SMP, but not that extreme. Might look pointed down, but it is not so much, maybe very slightly.
I've recently moved my saddle back 10mm as I've always felt like I had too weight on my hands, and this has helped, but I feel like I've lost power. Do you feel like you have weight on your hands being more forward? Great videos btw 👍🏼
Thank you Robert! If you are correctly set up on the saddle in terms of tilt (i.e. not too pointed down) you should not have excessive weight on the hands even if your position is a little bit more forward. I check that the part of the saddle I am sitting on is level.
@@fede1275 well it's ever since I've had a bike fit. But now you mention it he tilted my saddle down a few degrees (at the nose). Maybe I'll reset the setback and level the saddle and go from there 👍🏼. I have noticed I'm much more confident descending, with less weight on the front, so if I can keep the stability but get back the power I'll be happy. Thanks again for the reply
Now following you on Strava.Another good video.
@@richardcastle6169 followed back 👍
Wow. Too many variables in order to compare performance and Strava segments. Cleats are pulled back a lot. For me, 3 main elements were key: 1. Changed stem from 100 to 120mm. 2. Pedalstroke: foot is slightly pointing up when 1 or 2 o clock position. Compensating the powerless 5/6 o clock position. And finally, the last one, is fully engaged with your main topic here, to be able to "move" accordingly on the saddle. You will notice this on the especially soft and flexible selle Italia mp01 superflow, where the stiffness is at the front part. For pushing on flat roads. Similar to time trail modus.
By the way, the saddle has an official correct position: when crank is set at 3 o clock, knee should be parallel to the end of the crank/pedal. Right? I get the feeling that you might hurt yourself on the long-term
Hi Victor, I am not sure if there is such a correct position in terms of fore-aft. I believe the advice on the plumb line from the knee and the pedal spindle (similar to the set up you mentioned) has changed over the years. Same as when they mentioned you should not squat with your knee past your toes. In my case with the cleats pushed back on the shoes I don't feel pressure on the patella ligaments, but I agree some different leg lengths might need a different set up.
I think I have a similar case as you, my winter road bike is an Alu Cannondale, and my go to road bike is an Aeroad and the performance difference is also immense. I find it is not really the weight or the aerodynamics of the bike but the comfort altogether. My Cannondale has a seat post with 25 mm setback and I I can feel how it is really different way of applying power through the pedals. Need to maybe give a seat post with no set back as well one day. :)
Yes, makes sense. I was surprised how much it does affect the performance. It is worth a try, at least you can use any available standard seat post.
After giving myself a sciatic injury on my Cannondale CAAD 10 I just changed my 45 setback to a 0 setback. I have only been a few miles, first ride again after several weeks off. I noticed a major difference already in how my lower body legs, pelvic etc align better.
@@samson2143 I hope it will work for you. Before making the change I tried moving on the saddle slightly trying to notice any improvement on the comfort or power on the pedals.
That’s the advantage of not having a dedicated / integrated seat post and stem. You can adjust and tweak the bike to your liking no special tool needed
You are right, I changed the Canyon bar and stem to the integrated one after having found the best position. I checked the stem and bar reach, luckily they matched perfectly.
Hi Federico - you don't like your bike getting dirty. Why don't you put mudguards on the Merida during the nastiest winter months? Keep the bike and yourself clean?
You are right, I also have plastic removable SKS mudguards, but... I don't like the look of them on the bike. I am very silly, I know...
@@fede1275 I was exactly the same with mudguards on my winter bike, I made the jump this year and I can't believe how clean they keep me and the bike. I've resisted the advice from cycling friends for years 😂. I still think they look 💩 but definitely keeping lol
@@robertwalkerdine1178 Makes perfect sense, will maybe need to try the SKS race blade ones, they look better.
@@fede1275 just think not a very good look having brown muddy splatter on ones backside from riding without mud guards. Other people must get a good laugh thinking that rider looks like they 💩 themselves Lol
hi sir Federico i saw your stem is a little bit slam, im thinking if it safe for the steerer tube, i have merida scultura 400 and i try to slam my stem but i dont know how to remove the expander i cant see if the expander are long enough to cover the stembolt.
You are right, the fork should be cut to do things properly. Mine is only halfway down, I had the bike checked at my LBS and it seems okay. But yes, it should be cut. I will do it one day.
👌
👍👍👍
I'm now ready to front kick anyone in my way 😂😉 always enjoy the videos well done.
Only allowed to test your isometric lower leg muscle position... hahaha
🚴♂❤❤🎆Hello, Warm wishes on New Year to all of our wonderful and very special friend. ❤
🎉May you have a meaningful and successful year 2022 that brings you many joys and great big smiles!
Happy New Year!!
It looks like you will also benefit from raising your seat a bit higher (at least on the red bike). Try it and let me know.
I set them up at the same height, they should be okay now. I've had bad results from saddle set too high.
How did you measure your “power”? I was once in the same delusion about my position related to bottom bracket, I thought position more over pedals is more powerful, but those non scientific experiments riding a bike often are misleading. The thing is, when you move your saddle forward you have to also adjust it higher, and when you move it backwards you have to adjust it lower! Otherwise it isn’t a fair comparison. Manufacturers use setback seatpostes for a reason, because siting slightly backwards bicyclist: 1. Siting more on the center mass of the bike which makes it more stable and safer, aka sports car weight distribution, also allows for more aerodynamic body position, and less weight on the wrists. 2. Allows for better reqruitment of hamstrings and gluts. 3. Creats more powerful peddling angle at the 12 - 14 o’clock position of the pedal.
I know it is not scientific, but straight away I noticed I was going through the same roads with a higher gear, I kept checking the times on my commute as I do all the same segments over the year. As I rotate the pelvis forward, to me a forward position is more efficient, I could compare this with the Canyon that was already more aggressive due to the different seat tube angle.
Exactly the same with me, but next time wasn’t the same again. Lots of things influence our “power”, it could be better recovery of muscles that day, it could be better absorption of nutrients, better hormonal spike, front wind etc, etc. And also the placebo effect when you are testing new thing and deep inside yourself expecting to find that “magic” position which will improve our racing performance:)
It would be extremely interesting to see these claims substantiated by power meter & heart rate data.
I know, still can't justify power meter money. I like riding at feel. Maybe next.
Di che anno è questa scultura
L'ho presa a gennaio 2020