Ma long is the true Goat. He has all the skills necessary to win, finesse, speed, unpredictability, ability to read opponent weakness, adaptation, scope, and powerful accurate hit. Thats why he won the most top worldclass tournaments by far. WINNING is NOT EVERYTHING, it is the ONLY THING. Thats why MA LONG is obviously the undisputed GOAT.
@@keekengho-jq1qehe didn’t win more he won more worthless tourment and the bum couldn’t even win a grand slam(can’t even be in the argument if you didn’t win grand slam) Ma long achievements are leagues above and he didn’t play in a trash era He also played in a dogshit era where he played farmers. Literally no one even knows this guy and he barely had a wiki page cause he is a nobody who played in the farmer era
Agree, Wang Hao represented China in the Olympic Games three times and won three silver Medals in singles. Xu Xin didn’t even represent China in singles once.
Yep this one I agree with. Timo does have the longevity you have to give him that. But no major achievements and Wang and ma lin were unique players while Boll is just good.
@@x0cx102 Boll "just good" is quite funny statement seeing his unique touch andcondtant redevelopment of his own style. Just won a tournament again not only winning but in parts dominating 3 top players 😂. The only player ever for China to use him as a carbon copy in developing their stars.
1. Ma Long - really undebatable at this point: double grand slammer, most men’s world tour titles etc. 2. Jan Ove Waldner - Perhaps the most beautiful table tennis player to watch and absolutely dominant in his era. 3. Zhang Jike - I still don’t think any table tennis player has been better than prime Zhang Jike (2010-2014), 4. Fan Zhedong - Six-time major champion (5 world cups/WTTs, 1 world championship), this one is a no brainier for me. Will likely go down as the greatest when his career is over. 5. Ma Lin - The pen hold God and 5-time major champion, which was the record for a long time. 6. Wang Hao - The most technically sound player on this list in my opinion, but didn’t quite have the physical gifts or mental game that those higher than him did. 7. Liu Guoliang - A step above his doubles partner Kong Linghui, he’s a a more successful player outside of the majors while also being a grand slam champion. 8. Wang Liqin - Three time world champion, the most prestigious major. Also possessed the most dangerous forehand in the history of the game. 9. Kong Linghui - A grand slam champion who is slightly overshadowed by others to win the award. 10. Zhuang Zedong - Three time world champion in a time when it was the only major. Absolutely dominant in his era. Hard pick over the honourable mentions but I had to go with him. Honourable Mentions to Xu Xin, Timo Boll, Vladimir Samsonov, Richard Bergmann, Viktor Barna, Ichiro Ogimura and Toshiaki Tanaka
Nice top 10, but I think Fan Zhendong is too hight because he didn't win any Olympic and only 1 WTTC. Anyway, I believe he will be top 3 in history in a future for sure. I also miss some players like Ryu Seung-min, Jörgen Persson or Philippe Gatien (maybe not top 10, but honorable mentions)
What accolades have Jan Ove Waldner achieved? He's the only person in your top 10 where you did not describe his title wins/accomplishments, despite being very high (number 2) in your list.
I agree that Xu Xin and Timo Boll should not be in top 10, neither of them has won as many singles titles as the rest of the players on the list. And base on this criteria, it is clear that ZJK is the second best player of all time. Waldner couldn’t match JZK in terms of titles, records and influence. And I very much agree that not even Prime Ma Long can defeat ZJK in his prime.
Well for MaLong the reason why he has this record is his hunger for a win always in every game, which the Chinese regards as "playing like giving it your all is a sign of respect to the opponent" and also his ability to adjust in every situation on/before and after each match is what his personal coach Qin improve in him. That's why I adore his mentality that much, the Dragon/Dictator/Dominator mentality I'd say. 💪💪💪 I'll definitely miss him if he retires 😭
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Mikael Appelgren..4 gold in World Championships and four silver, 9 gold in European Championship and World Cup winner 2 times..he is definitely worth mentioning..🙏🙏👌
Waldner is the Maradona of table tennis. No one has more flair, skill and unpredictability. Ma Long might have won the most, but Waldner is the one who reminds me why I love table tennis.
Who do you think Waldner or Ma Long will win if they play each other in their prime?? 😂😂 See how table tennis has evolved, the level is totally different now a days. Even the top 10 guys of this generation can beat Waldner prime . And for Ma Long to stay in top level for such a long in this competitive world is truly remarkable. Just compare the opponent of Waldner's days and Ma Long days, you'll understand it if you know table tennis.The technique, movement, reflexes, consistency, accuracy etc etc are way ahead and better than Waldner's days yet Ma Long never failed to dominate. I don't think Waldner can withstand Ma Long's forehand anyway. The game was slow during those days, now it's totally different.
Zhang Jike is super underrated, he might’ve not been the best but he definitely had the potential to be the best considering the amount of competition during his time. Too bad he’s now wrapped up in a whole controversy with his gambling debt and ex girlfriend.
Dude, you list cannot miss Zhuang Zedong, the three time world champion from 1961 to 1965. At the time there were no World Cups, no Olympics, and no Asian Cups, so the world championship is the highest achievement in table tennis. If you argue that the his victories over Lee Furong were fixed, I recognize that point, but you have to make your case in the video as a footnote. In my opinion, he's in the top 10 somewhere as he was still the most dominant player in his time regardless.
Same for Guo Yuehua, 2 times world champion 1981/1983, Jian Jialiang, 2 times world champion 1985/1987... Viktor Barna, 5 times world champion in the 1930' It seems Table Tennis Central does not know well table tennis history. Are those champions behind Timo Boll who has never been world champion or olympic champion? (world cup value is much more less!)
100% agree! I can’t believe he wasn’t mentioned at all & in particular he was THE motive force behind “Ping Pong” diplomacy! No one else can claim that! 🏓
Waldner is the greatest for me among these amazing athletes. He looked moving slower than others and a little overweighted. But the ball was allways where he was. He kept the opponents running. I love his style.
@@yutuberboy Dominate? Hardly. He'd probably win, but what a game (assuming both were in their prime and neglecting differences in rules and equipment etc).
@@yutuberboy I don't think so, ma long is just a machin, i as no the talent and the vision of waldner, ma long is just a product of chinese player factory, i don't as the crazy touch of wladner or koki niwa.
Table tennis underwent a major change in the 1970's with the "atomic" speed of play and a variety of trick serves. Therefore, Ogimura is woefully out of place in this ranking regardless of his titles. In most sports, the "best of" lists should be segmented into 2-3 time periods for the purpose of objectivity, reflecting the improvements in the sport.
100% agree this is an issue in every sport, saying that Gretzky is a greater hockey player than Crosby outside of records on paper is silly. The sports evolve so much, speed, training, analytics etc. Something like Legacy, modern and contemporary categories would satisfy me pretty well.
Not sure I agree, you need to compare them to the competition back then, of course Gretzky is the GOAT, ask Crosby and hell tell you. As Jordan, if he played today, with todays science, nutrition etc. He would still be GOAT, of course things have changed, and the sport too, but compared to their peers they were superb.
@@nilsenstrom857 It's not good to respond under the influence of alcohol or recreational drugs. If neither is involved, your comment is even more damning.
A good list. As all such lists this is also not free from bias. The criterias should be known. E.g. where is FZD? I really like XX, he was particularly impressive in Team and pair competitions. Though he is even quasy retired does not match the record of Xiaopang as indiviual player.
@@guggenator1241 Malong came but he did not past. Waldner & his various compatriots teach and share to the Chinese and they copied including the rest of their generation and beyond how shakehand is played. That is how shakehand in China came into existence as main style of play. In case you haven't realise, when u buy a racket at any shop u can order a chinese penhold bcos it is representative of chinese play but there is no chinese shakehand being named bcos it is a European style historically since the game inception in London. Thus it is also not a chinese country ball bcos it is founded in England. Meanwhile, in a broader perspective, the world follow the shakehand style started from Waldner and compatriots. So if Malong and etc are learning and benefiting from Waldner act of kindness. How does it make him great. last but not least, if his fans are not humble enough to recognise the fact, so Malong had did the game a disservice and bring a bad name to the game. So above being said, believe not only debatable but it is abundantly clear who is 1. Not a fan of anyone but stating the correct facts. Wonder what Malong or etc before him have ever done to the global game other than sharing how many cups or double they have got etc etc. Winner dont need brag as it is evident in record and can be avilable via a click. But one thing clear is the first ever person who win the olympic and world champ is not Malong or any of their compatriots. Even the 1st olympic was not as well. Wonder did they elevate the game globally or make it a poorer game in the world ?? Somehow believe inclining to the latter.
For me Waldner is #1, not necessarily for how good he was, but how special. There's a reason for that nickname. He played the ball like Mozart played the violin. Absolute magic. All those Chinese stars you've got today, like Fan Zhendong and Ma Long are awesome, sure. They're very fast and very powerful, but they don't have the same ball-manipulating sorcery Waldner had.
Jan Ove WALDNER pour toujours. Il a un très grand palmarès mais ça n'est pas pour cette raison qu'il est et restera pour moi, le plus mémorable joueur de tous les temps. C'est surtout parce qu'avant et après lui, les manuels d'apprentissage de tennis de table n'ont plus jamais été les mêmes (je suis entraineur de tennis de table depuis 35 ans). Il a créé un tennis de table dont tous les grands artistes du ping se sont inspirés après lui. WALDNER, WALDNER, WALDNER et tous ceux que vous avez cités, juste après.
Think xu xin and timo to highly ranked on the list. ma lin and wang hao should be way higher on the list and never herd of ichiro ogimura. timo and ogimura should be the two bottom on the list.
Samsonov should definitely be in this ranking, 27 ITTF World Tour titles, only Ma Long has more, yes, he couldn’t win the World Championships and the Olympic Games, but Timo Boll couldn’t either, and he’s on the list
Interesting that Kong Linghui (world and olympics champion) is not on the list. Also missing Fan Zhendong and Jörgen Persson. Non world champions Timo Boll and Xu Xin shouldn't be on the list.
My top 10 (from 90's to nowadays): Ma Long Jan-Ove Waldner Wang Liqin Kong Linghui Zhang Jike Fan Zhendong Wang Hao Ma Lin Xu Xin Timo Boll honorable mentions: Jörgen Persson, Liu Guoliang, Vladimir Samsonov, Jean-Michel Saive, Wang Chuqin future potentials: Felix Lebrun, Truls Moregardh, Hugo Calderano, Tomokazu Harimoto
Xuxin can't be ranked higher than Liu Quoliang, And Kong Linhhui must be in the top 5 for numerous wins, including defeating of Jan Ove Waldner to win Gold at Sydney 2000 Olympic.
I very much agree with your list. At first I came in with a suspicious mind about how fair your list would be, but when I gave some thought about it, that’s pretty much the top 10. Even though I am not a fan of some of the players, but I agree they should make it to the top 10 given how much they contributed to table tennis 🏓
No, it most certainly isn't. How is Xu Xin in there at all? Where is Kong Linghui and how is Liu Guoliang ahead of him? And where are Guo Yuehua, Jiang Jialing and Zhuang Zedong? This list is a bad joke.
There's doubt of course.I didn't see Fang Bo or Falck on the list.Waldner beat half of those players on the list even past his prime.Ma Long is a weak era champion.It's as simple as that.Before 2015 his only title was the 2012 World Cup(which is not even a real major) beating the always injured Boll.
@@dickn.ormous1064 1. So the GOAT race is only count until 2015? 2. ZJK, FZD, Xu Xin, Dima, Jun Mizutani, Hugo, Harimoto, etc, weak era as you said? 3. Fang Bo or Falck?, they even havent' get a World Cup (small title according you) so how can they be in this list?
@@dattannguyen4093 Xu Xin a doubles specialist first Chinese lefty to ever lose doubles at the Olympics,ZJK destroyed his body in no time-he was dead meat in 2016,Mizutani(a weakling),Calderano a guy from Brazil who didn't even have TT as his first sport before the age of 14,Harimoto(a teen student/player who will hit his prime in 5 years time),Ovtcharov the guy who lost to 42 yo injured Samsonov at the Olympics etc.Only FZD was a genuine contender but FZD isn't allowed to train against Ma Long's style.
@@dickn.ormous1064 Every player that I have mentioned is already in the top 10 (top 5 honestly) of ITTF ranking and at top of their representative country. You have just mentioned some of their defeats (but forgot to mention about their wins), then claimed that they are weak. I dont think I would continue the debate because what you've talked are nonsense.
@@philt77 yeah and ma long has grace and elegance, and has probably the best forehand ever in the game. So no, waldner is no longer widely regarded as the goat.
@@x0cx102 Waldner is the goat, will always be the goat. there will never be a player as talented with a ball, not in table tennis, possibly not in any sport.
How come no one mentioned Jiang Jia Liang ?? Guo Yue Hua ?? Dont think they are worst off than those listed. (A period certain people wanted to forget?)
Big mistake to miss the classic Hungarian Idol players like, Jonyer, Gergely, Klampar, the one and only Greek Kreanga, the Belarus Samsonov, the French Gatien and so on … you know what mean … :)
Funny how everybody is arguing about every players in this ranking, except for Ma Long, for whom everybody is agree. True GOAT abovr all. Table tennis god.
It's hard to say who is the greatest of all time, but anyway, it doesn't make sense to try to determine who is the GOAT. Each generation has its greatest. In the 80'/90', the best was Waldner. Now this is Ma Long
My top 10: 1 J-O 2 Jörgen Persson 3 Stellan Bengtsson 4 Mikael Appelgren 5 Kjell Johansson 6 Erik Lindh 7 Hans Alsér 8 Truls Möregård 9 Ma Long 10 Tage Flisberg
Nice! If it's a skill level rank, I'd take out the old player and place Kong Ligui instead. If it's for how representative they are, it may be ok. And if it's on titles, Xu Xin shouldn't be there and Kong Ligui should!
I believe Xu Xin, and to an extent Timo Boll, benefit from recency bias. Xu Xin has always been one of my favorite players, but he was rarely better than 3rd behind Ma Long and either Zhang Jike or Fan Zhendong. Same goes for Timo Boll. He is an icon, an absolute legend, and always was extremely entertaining to watch. But compared to players who dominated their era, I think he falls short.
@@mindrover777 doubles is less competitive and easier to win because; A) players switch doubles all the time mainly play with their friends for fun B) players don’t practice doubles except pre major tournaments C) doubles Is less about individual skill as you have a teammate D) less glory and financial incentive for doubles means people take it less seiouslyb
Ma Long has two Chinese National Games men's single titles. Many of the all-time great Chinese players don't even have one. As one can imagine, TT at the Chinese National Games is a lot more competitive than any other event.
Waldner lasted at the international level way longer than these other guys by a huge margin, 30 years. I think he lost the bronze metal match in the 2004 Olympics when he was 39. He was once asked after he won an Olympic match against a Chinese player, “didn’t you play against his coach in the Olympics?” He said he actually played against his coaches coach in the Olympics too. Chinese call him Evergreen Tree because he’s been around so long. Lots of players a great for maybe 3 or 4 years at the peak of their physicality, Waldner did it for 30.
Waldner won international tournaments from 1989 to 1998.After 1999 he never won any international tournaments. Basically father time beat all top players.
Table Tennis must be divided into 2 eras. The authentic TT and the hybrid TT. The fast and spinny genuine TT and the slow and dead fake TT. A few players mentioned in this list were successful in both eras. Waldner, Ma Lin, and Kong Ling Hui. Wang Liqin was really good after TT became fake TT. Ma Lin was about to dominate TT but fake TT diminished his competitiveness because he was a penholder who mainly relied on his spinny service game and speedy and spinny forehand loopdrives.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Ma long is the true Goat. He has all the skills necessary to win, finesse, speed, unpredictability, ability to read opponent weakness, adaptation, scope, and powerful accurate hit. Thats why he won the most top worldclass tournaments by far. WINNING is NOT EVERYTHING, it is the ONLY THING. Thats why MA LONG is obviously the undisputed GOAT.
You divide all Ma Long's achievements by 2 and he is still the GOAT.
nope he aint even no divide. way off if compared to barna.. not in same class. get facts right.
@@keekengho-jq1qewinning counts,not poinion!
@@markbantz9699 yes barna won more in case u havent realise.
@@keekengho-jq1qehe didn’t win more he won more worthless tourment and the bum couldn’t even win a grand slam(can’t even be in the argument if you didn’t win grand slam)
Ma long achievements are leagues above and he didn’t play in a trash era
He also played in a dogshit era where he played farmers. Literally no one even knows this guy and he barely had a wiki page cause he is a nobody who played in the farmer era
@@keekengho-jq1qe barna didn’t win more your dumbass can’t count right 😂
Xu xin is not a table tennis player, he is a artist
@@Zhiyuan-e1f
Ok
Timo Boll once won a poll in china about the "world's most attractive athlete". Runner-up was David Beckham. That shows how popular he is there.
Why u worrying about another man’s appearance
@@mr__OK Worrying?
@@jensclarberg6419 yes worrying! U need me to teach you meaning of the word?
@@mr__OK I think you're sexualising other men, not the OP.
@@mr__OK
Someone seems edgy
Waldner plays table tennis like Mozart composes-pure artistry in motion.
Timo above Wang Hao and Ma Lin ? In terms of achievement and advancing the techniques that is pure puzzling
Agree, Wang Hao represented China in the Olympic Games three times and won three silver Medals in singles. Xu Xin didn’t even represent China in singles once.
Agree, Wan Hao and Ma lin are much better than Timo Boll and Xu Xin, and they achievements are much greater.
Yep this one I agree with. Timo does have the longevity you have to give him that. But no major achievements and Wang and ma lin were unique players while Boll is just good.
@@x0cx102 Boll "just good" is quite funny statement seeing his unique touch andcondtant redevelopment of his own style. Just won a tournament again not only winning but in parts dominating 3 top players 😂. The only player ever for China to use him as a carbon copy in developing their stars.
I think the same, Timo Boll should be higher ranked on this list,,,
Honorable mention: Jörgen Persson
Currently the head coach of the swedish national team that took Silver in mens singles and silver in mens team this olympics 2024 Paris.
Ma Lin and Wang Hao should be definitely headed of xu xin (xin never won a major!! But still great player to watch)
1. Ma Long - really undebatable at this point: double grand slammer, most men’s world tour titles etc.
2. Jan Ove Waldner - Perhaps the most beautiful table tennis player to watch and absolutely dominant in his era.
3. Zhang Jike - I still don’t think any table tennis player has been better than prime Zhang Jike (2010-2014),
4. Fan Zhedong - Six-time major champion (5 world cups/WTTs, 1 world championship), this one is a no brainier for me. Will likely go down as the greatest when his career is over.
5. Ma Lin - The pen hold God and 5-time major champion, which was the record for a long time.
6. Wang Hao - The most technically sound player on this list in my opinion, but didn’t quite have the physical gifts or mental game that those higher than him did.
7. Liu Guoliang - A step above his doubles partner Kong Linghui, he’s a a more successful player outside of the majors while also being a grand slam champion.
8. Wang Liqin - Three time world champion, the most prestigious major. Also possessed the most dangerous forehand in the history of the game.
9. Kong Linghui - A grand slam champion who is slightly overshadowed by others to win the award.
10. Zhuang Zedong - Three time world champion in a time when it was the only major. Absolutely dominant in his era. Hard pick over the honourable mentions but I had to go with him.
Honourable Mentions to Xu Xin, Timo Boll, Vladimir Samsonov, Richard Bergmann, Viktor Barna, Ichiro Ogimura and Toshiaki Tanaka
Nice top 10, but I think Fan Zhendong is too hight because he didn't win any Olympic and only 1 WTTC. Anyway, I believe he will be top 3 in history in a future for sure.
I also miss some players like Ryu Seung-min, Jörgen Persson or Philippe Gatien (maybe not top 10, but honorable mentions)
What accolades have Jan Ove Waldner achieved? He's the only person in your top 10 where you did not describe his title wins/accomplishments, despite being very high (number 2) in your list.
@@nl5455 he's 2 times world champion, Olympic champion and European champion (singles)
Guo Yuehua, the original Liu Guoliang. Cai Zhenhua, the master of trickery.
I agree that Xu Xin and Timo Boll should not be in top 10, neither of them has won as many singles titles as the rest of the players on the list. And base on this criteria, it is clear that ZJK is the second best player of all time. Waldner couldn’t match JZK in terms of titles, records and influence. And I very much agree that not even Prime Ma Long can defeat ZJK in his prime.
Well for MaLong the reason why he has this record is his hunger for a win always in every game, which the Chinese regards as "playing like giving it your all is a sign of respect to the opponent" and also his ability to adjust in every situation on/before and after each match is what his personal coach Qin improve in him. That's why I adore his mentality that much, the Dragon/Dictator/Dominator mentality I'd say. 💪💪💪 I'll definitely miss him if he retires 😭
Finally some sentiments I share.
He was unreal, for national reasons I support Waldner, but MaLong is undoubtedly the greatest of all time.
his mentality and his tactical game. He finds the opponents weakness and adapts to everything
Jesus Christ loves you and died for your sins, everyone sins and deserves hell but Jesus (God) died for our sins paying the price of them, believe that and be Saved
Mikael Appelgren..4 gold in World Championships and four silver, 9 gold in European Championship and World Cup winner 2 times..he is definitely worth mentioning..🙏🙏👌
Waldner is the Maradona of table tennis. No one has more flair, skill and unpredictability. Ma Long might have won the most, but Waldner is the one who reminds me why I love table tennis.
Messi (1), no Maradona (2). Y soy argentino.
Pelé would be the most accurate comparison.
Who do you think Waldner or Ma Long will win if they play each other in their prime?? 😂😂
See how table tennis has evolved, the level is totally different now a days. Even the top 10 guys of this generation can beat Waldner prime .
And for Ma Long to stay in top level for such a long in this competitive world is truly remarkable.
Just compare the opponent of Waldner's days and Ma Long days, you'll understand it if you know table tennis.The technique, movement, reflexes, consistency, accuracy etc etc are way ahead and better than Waldner's days yet Ma Long never failed to dominate. I don't think Waldner can withstand Ma Long's forehand anyway. The game was slow during those days, now it's totally different.
Just becuz u r old😂
@@alwynkesen4721увы , может и выиграли бы Валднера, но теннис сейчас быстрый и скучный, Валднер и его поколение навсегда лучшие.
Jiang Jialiang? ;)
I agree with everything else. :D
Great video.
Zhang Jike was unbeatable for a while. Amazing player
This production of objective analysis clearly establishes Ma Long as the GOAT in TT.
Congrats, TT Central!
Not a fan of Ma Long but he is the goat … at least until 2022.. Fan seems in a good way to become the next one
The next one but sorry until Fan surpasses Mas accomplishments and gets his grand slam he won't even be better than Waldner
i doubt fan will have the stats of ml the way its going. WCQ has a chance tho
@@x0cx102Kong Linghui has a Grand Slam and he is not even on the list
Zhang Jike is super underrated, he might’ve not been the best but he definitely had the potential to be the best considering the amount of competition during his time. Too bad he’s now wrapped up in a whole controversy with his gambling debt and ex girlfriend.
Dude, you list cannot miss Zhuang Zedong, the three time world champion from 1961 to 1965. At the time there were no World Cups, no Olympics, and no Asian Cups, so the world championship is the highest achievement in table tennis. If you argue that the his victories over Lee Furong were fixed, I recognize that point, but you have to make your case in the video as a footnote. In my opinion, he's in the top 10 somewhere as he was still the most dominant player in his time regardless.
Technically, world champion is currently the highest achievement in table tennis as well.
Same for Guo Yuehua, 2 times world champion 1981/1983, Jian Jialiang, 2 times world champion 1985/1987... Viktor Barna, 5 times world champion in the 1930' It seems Table Tennis Central does not know well table tennis history. Are those champions behind Timo Boll who has never been world champion or olympic champion? (world cup value is much more less!)
100% agree! I can’t believe he wasn’t mentioned at all & in particular he was THE motive force behind “Ping Pong” diplomacy! No one else can claim that! 🏓
MaLong is the best, no doubt ❤❤❤
Waldner is the greatest for me among these amazing athletes. He looked moving slower than others and a little overweighted. But the ball was allways where he was. He kept the opponents running. I love his style.
MA LONG WOULD DOMINATE HIM FOR SURE
@@yutuberboy Dominate? Hardly. He'd probably win, but what a game (assuming both were in their prime and neglecting differences in rules and equipment etc).
@@yutuberboycalm down fanboy.
@@yutuberboy I don't think so, ma long is just a machin, i as no the talent and the vision of waldner, ma long is just a product of chinese player factory, i don't as the crazy touch of wladner or koki niwa.
Waldner in his prime was very far from overweight...
Waldner and ma long are the king of table tennis
Table tennis underwent a major change in the 1970's with the "atomic" speed of play and a variety of trick serves. Therefore, Ogimura is woefully out of place in this ranking regardless of his titles. In most sports, the "best of" lists should be segmented into 2-3 time periods for the purpose of objectivity, reflecting the improvements in the sport.
100% agree this is an issue in every sport, saying that Gretzky is a greater hockey player than Crosby outside of records on paper is silly. The sports evolve so much, speed, training, analytics etc.
Something like Legacy, modern and contemporary categories would satisfy me pretty well.
Not sure I agree, you need to compare them to the competition back then, of course Gretzky is the GOAT, ask Crosby and hell tell you. As Jordan, if he played today, with todays science, nutrition etc. He would still be GOAT, of course things have changed, and the sport too, but compared to their peers they were superb.
@@nilsenstrom857 It's not good to respond under the influence of alcohol or recreational drugs. If neither is involved, your comment is even more damning.
For me, Xu Xin is the number one, with his brilliant, playful and effortless style, maybe the Capablanca of table tennis. 😂😅
Never won major
@@mr__OKyou are right
Wang hao and Ma lin are to low ? Boll and Xu are to high and thats coming from an Xu xin fan
In my opinion, Joo Saehyuk deserves a place in the top 10 too, he‘s the best defender of all time and played on top of the world for quite some time
Top 10? 😂😂😂😂😂
And Ma Long is this year team world champion in Busan and winner of simple Wordl Cup in Macao !
| Ma Long |
| Jan-Ove Waldner |
| Wang Liqin |
| Kong Linghui |
| Zhang Jike |
| Timo Boll |
| Xu Xin |
| Wang Hao |
| Fan Zhendong |
| Liu Guoliang |
where is Forest Gump?
He us beyond legend as he is god of Ping-Pong.
A good list. As all such lists this is also not free from bias. The criterias should be known. E.g. where is FZD? I really like XX, he was particularly impressive in Team and pair competitions. Though he is even quasy retired does not match the record of Xiaopang as indiviual player.
Ma long and Waldner are no brainer for N0 1 and N0 2, but anyone else is debatable. Fan ZheDong is on path to one of the top 3.
waldner is 2 is debatable.
@@hokeekeng2166 nah
@@guggenator1241?
@@hokeekeng2166 how is he debatable when he’s was seen as the goat untill Ma Long came
@@guggenator1241 Malong came but he did not past. Waldner & his various compatriots teach and share to the Chinese and they copied including the rest of their generation and beyond how shakehand is played. That is how shakehand in China came into existence as main style of play. In case you haven't realise, when u buy a racket at any shop u can order a chinese penhold bcos it is representative of chinese play but there is no chinese shakehand being named bcos it is a European style historically since the game inception in London. Thus it is also not a chinese country ball bcos it is founded in England. Meanwhile, in a broader perspective, the world follow the shakehand style started from Waldner and compatriots. So if Malong and etc are learning and benefiting from Waldner act of kindness. How does it make him great. last but not least, if his fans are not humble enough to recognise the fact, so Malong had did the game a disservice and bring a bad name to the game. So above being said, believe not only debatable but it is abundantly clear who is 1. Not a fan of anyone but stating the correct facts. Wonder what Malong or etc before him have ever done to the global game other than sharing how many cups or double they have got etc etc. Winner dont need brag as it is evident in record and can be avilable via a click. But one thing clear is the first ever person who win the olympic and world champ is not Malong or any of their compatriots. Even the 1st olympic was not as well. Wonder did they elevate the game globally or make it a poorer game in the world ?? Somehow believe inclining to the latter.
Where are Fan Zhedong and Vladimir Samsonov?
Ahlie they r way better
11 and 12 😂
On vacation. Most likely at Cancun. 😅😅
Best comment
Yo know man
Wang Hao and Ma Lin should both be much higher in this list.
Waldner for sure.
The era in which table tennis had played to 21 points to win a set is better than nowadays
Согласен на все 100% , больше драмы и красивой разнообразной игры, щас мощь и скорость, скучно.
Nope, totally wrong
How old are you, 65? Lol you know nothing about the game
For me Waldner is #1, not necessarily for how good he was, but how special. There's a reason for that nickname. He played the ball like Mozart played the violin. Absolute magic. All those Chinese stars you've got today, like Fan Zhendong and Ma Long are awesome, sure. They're very fast and very powerful, but they don't have the same ball-manipulating sorcery Waldner had.
If Waldner is to be number 2, Persson should have made top 10 too. Also, Wang Hao and Ma Lin behind Timo and Xu must be a joke.
Waldner is my goat
Jan Ove WALDNER pour toujours. Il a un très grand palmarès mais ça n'est pas pour cette raison qu'il est et restera pour moi, le plus mémorable joueur de tous les temps. C'est surtout parce qu'avant et après lui, les manuels d'apprentissage de tennis de table n'ont plus jamais été les mêmes (je suis entraineur de tennis de table depuis 35 ans). Il a créé un tennis de table dont tous les grands artistes du ping se sont inspirés après lui.
WALDNER, WALDNER, WALDNER et tous ceux que vous avez cités, juste après.
I really like Xu Xin but how can he be in the top 10?
He masters not only MS but also MD & XD. He ranks 7th as players with most gold medals at WCH, and 3rd in open era after Ma Long & Wang Liqin.
This is not a competition of titles and medals, but a competition of styles, innovations and love of fans.
@@lucashamilton151No way, he only won a World Cup throughout his career ,and never won a world championship and Olympic in men single .
Think xu xin and timo to highly ranked on the list. ma lin and wang hao should be way higher on the list and never herd of ichiro ogimura. timo and ogimura should be the two bottom on the list.
Just because you haven’t heard of ogimjra doesn’t mean he’s bad. Really stupid thinking
I think Timo Boll and Xu Xin should be behind Wang Hao and Ma Lin.
@@ecke9635 I didn’t even say he’s bad but I said he’s bottom of the top 10 players ever that is pretty good if you ask me
@@haraldkolsrud2796 well you cant just say that because you dont know of him
@@ecke9635 how High would you rank him tho
Samsonov should definitely be in this ranking, 27 ITTF World Tour titles, only Ma Long has more, yes, he couldn’t win the World Championships and the Olympic Games, but Timo Boll couldn’t either, and he’s on the list
Interesting that Kong Linghui (world and olympics champion) is not on the list. Also missing Fan Zhendong and Jörgen Persson.
Non world champions Timo Boll and Xu Xin shouldn't be on the list.
Exactly surprise to see Timo on the list. And xu xin is great to watch but nowhere near such a discussion.
Agreed. And Wang Hao is incredibly underrated.
and what about Jiang Jialiang?
Kong Linghui should have been on the list instead of Timo. (I love Timo BTW)
If you ask a Chinese, Liu Guoliang is always second to Kong Linghui
My top 10 (from 90's to nowadays):
Ma Long
Jan-Ove Waldner
Wang Liqin
Kong Linghui
Zhang Jike
Fan Zhendong
Wang Hao
Ma Lin
Xu Xin
Timo Boll
honorable mentions:
Jörgen Persson, Liu Guoliang, Vladimir Samsonov, Jean-Michel Saive, Wang Chuqin
future potentials:
Felix Lebrun, Truls Moregardh, Hugo Calderano, Tomokazu Harimoto
Xuxin can't be ranked higher than Liu Quoliang, And Kong Linhhui must be in the top 5 for numerous wins, including defeating of Jan Ove Waldner to win Gold at Sydney 2000 Olympic.
This is not a competition of titles and medals, but a competition of styles, innovations and love of fans.
I very much agree with your list. At first I came in with a suspicious mind about how fair your list would be, but when I gave some thought about it, that’s pretty much the top 10. Even though I am not a fan of some of the players, but I agree they should make it to the top 10 given how much they contributed to table tennis 🏓
Jorgen Persson did more than Timo Boll
No, it most certainly isn't. How is Xu Xin in there at all? Where is Kong Linghui and how is Liu Guoliang ahead of him? And where are Guo Yuehua, Jiang Jialing and Zhuang Zedong? This list is a bad joke.
Really miss Tibor Klampar from your list. He is the idol of J.O. Waldnwr. He won WC in single, double and in team category.
Where is Fan Zhendong?
in terms of the totality of awards, he is not worthy to be there
@@falcon-9335 he is a rising champion
@@j7470-y5g and they are no longer
You could see him in all the other chinese players highlight in the losing end
JO Waldner 🏓🤴🏻
I like Time Boll but for me Jorgen Persson should be in this list instead of Timo.
At least Persson has become the World Chanpion in the singles once.
I wonder if a remake of this video in 10 years will see the rise of Fan Zhendong to the GOAT.
No way
No doubt that Ma Long is the GOAT
There's doubt of course.I didn't see Fang Bo or Falck on the list.Waldner beat half of those players on the list even past his prime.Ma Long is a weak era champion.It's as simple as that.Before 2015 his only title was the 2012 World Cup(which is not even a real major) beating the always injured Boll.
@@dickn.ormous1064
1. So the GOAT race is only count until 2015?
2. ZJK, FZD, Xu Xin, Dima, Jun Mizutani, Hugo, Harimoto, etc, weak era as you said?
3. Fang Bo or Falck?, they even havent' get a World Cup (small title according you) so how can they be in this list?
@@dattannguyen4093 Xu Xin a doubles specialist first Chinese lefty to ever lose doubles at the Olympics,ZJK destroyed his body in no time-he was dead meat in 2016,Mizutani(a weakling),Calderano a guy from Brazil who didn't even have TT as his first sport before the age of 14,Harimoto(a teen student/player who will hit his prime in 5 years time),Ovtcharov the guy who lost to 42 yo injured Samsonov at the Olympics etc.Only FZD was a genuine contender but FZD isn't allowed to train against Ma Long's style.
@@dickn.ormous1064 Every player that I have mentioned is already in the top 10 (top 5 honestly) of ITTF ranking and at top of their representative country.
You have just mentioned some of their defeats (but forgot to mention about their wins), then claimed that they are weak. I dont think I would continue the debate because what you've talked are nonsense.
@@dickn.ormous1064 u dont know anything abt tabletennsi
Looool xu xin and what about Kong lingui?
Ma Long tiene más logros deportivos, pero Jan Ove es lo más grande de la historia, su estilo es incomparable!!
Agrred. He was funny too and so cool. And his blocks!
@@philt77 yeah and ma long has grace and elegance, and has probably the best forehand ever in the game. So no, waldner is no longer widely regarded as the goat.
Waldner had great style but the game evolves and play changes. Waldner wouldn't do so well in the modern era.
Xu Xin ranked above Liu Guoliang??? u gotta be kidding
2:40…did anyone saw Timo just switch from his left hand to his right hand and then back and forth? I never seen this with any player in my life!
😀Andrzej Grubba many years ago. Bronze in 1989 Wm Stuttgart
Я видел недавно
Yes more recently too others as well but I can't remember who
@@x0cx102one of the swedish players, Kristian Karlsson I think
Waldner is Tyson of TT 👑
no ,because Tyson is overrated and never won against a true world class fighter!
Overrated?
JEAN-MICHEL SAIVE ❤
You can't always be the best with tournament counter. I think Ma Lin is the best of all the players on the list.
Yes it is correct. But after waldner.😉
True.
@@seyyah4550 ha, wrong. Imagine still thinking waldner is the goat in this day
@@x0cx102 Waldner is the goat, will always be the goat. there will never be a player as talented with a ball, not in table tennis, possibly not in any sport.
How come no one mentioned Jiang Jia Liang ?? Guo Yue Hua ?? Dont think they are worst off than those listed. (A period certain people wanted to forget?)
Así es Guo Yue Hua fue subcampeon mundial en 1977 y en 1979 y campeón mundial en 1981 y 1983, es decir estuvo en 4 finales seguidas
Jan Ove Waldner absolutely Goat
Phen xendong's stars are shining... He is one to be in the updated list in future
Who is that 😂
@@kim2388 who is kim2388 😂🤣
@@kim2388 he means fan zhendong
Big mistake to miss the classic Hungarian Idol players like, Jonyer, Gergely, Klampar, the one and only Greek Kreanga, the Belarus Samsonov, the French Gatien and so on … you know what mean … :)
Funny how everybody is arguing about every players in this ranking, except for Ma Long, for whom everybody is agree. True GOAT abovr all. Table tennis god.
It's hard to say who is the greatest of all time, but anyway, it doesn't make sense to try to determine who is the GOAT. Each generation has its greatest. In the 80'/90', the best was Waldner. Now this is Ma Long
Are we all gonna forget about Fan Zhendong
Waldner should be no. 1. No doubt. In the smaller ball era, 5 serves, more creativity in the play. Now it's all about being the best robot.
Waldner is the best robot😅
No Malong is the clear 1 his Achievements are unmatched
We get it. Your white.
My top 10:
1 J-O
2 Jörgen Persson
3 Stellan Bengtsson
4 Mikael Appelgren
5 Kjell Johansson
6 Erik Lindh
7 Hans Alsér
8 Truls Möregård
9 Ma Long
10 Tage Flisberg
E du möjligen Svensk du med?😊
(Eng (roughly translated): Are you possibly Swedish too)
@@bennylloyd-willner9667 hur kunde du veta det!? 🤔
🙂
@@beorlingo by your inclusion of Ma Long... 😂
Great Ranking
Nice! If it's a skill level rank, I'd take out the old player and place Kong Ligui instead. If it's for how representative they are, it may be ok. And if it's on titles, Xu Xin shouldn't be there and Kong Ligui should!
I believe Xu Xin, and to an extent Timo Boll, benefit from recency bias. Xu Xin has always been one of my favorite players, but he was rarely better than 3rd behind Ma Long and either Zhang Jike or Fan Zhendong. Same goes for Timo Boll. He is an icon, an absolute legend, and always was extremely entertaining to watch. But compared to players who dominated their era, I think he falls short.
Ma long is only dominant in singles by the way. The best singles tt player.
The best ever he dominates teams and doubles matters far les
@@furlong234 could you elaborate on the doubles championship titles please
@@mindrover777 doubles is less competitive and easier to win because;
A) players switch doubles all the time mainly play with their friends for fun
B) players don’t practice doubles except pre major tournaments
C) doubles Is less about individual skill as you have a teammate
D) less glory and financial incentive for doubles means people take it less seiouslyb
@@furlong234 easier to win? 🤣. Clearly, you are dilusional or not thinking straight.
Back to the 1950’, Vietnam team was great with big names as MaivanHoa, LevanTiet….won in Japan and Germany.
The stats pf ma long are so damn unreal
AT this moment : waldner or Ma Long.
2034 : Félix Lebrun.
1. Ma Long 2. Zhang Jike 3. Jan-Ove Waldner 4. Wang Hao 5. Fan Zhendong 6. Wang Liqin 7. Ma Lin 8. Liu Guoliang 9. Timo Boll 10. Kong Linghui
If it about achievements Timo Boll should be after Ma Lin and Wang Hao.
Fan ZhenDong👺
Hi, well - not to list Fan Zhendong seems unfair to me.
Xu xin, zhang jike and timo boll shouldn’t be over wang hao and Ma lin in my opinion.
Globally okay with the rest of the ranking.
Zjk is way than wang hao and Ma lin .Zjk is a killer when facing penholder.
Ma Long has two Chinese National Games men's single titles. Many of the all-time great Chinese players don't even have one. As one can imagine, TT at the Chinese National Games is a lot more competitive than any other event.
Where is the Belgian player in this list Jean michel Saive????
Viktor Barna; 5 times singles world champion?
He can deserve to be in top 10, right?
If you count the old legends, the top 10 bar is very high.
Table Tennis Central does not know table tennis history...
In early 90's , whole Chinese Team is studying how to defeat Waldner, Chinese player has a pamphlet about the technical characteristics of him.
Xu xin is an artist :/
Jiang Jialiang two times World Champion. Very dominant in the World in his prime.
not a single woman mentioned in the video, love it
Because no woman comes near any of these men.
Where's Fan Zendhong???
The great Jimmy O Neill who won an unparalleled EIGHTEEN Irish open singles TT titles in the 90s and 2000s should be undoubtedly on this list.
1) Ma Long
2) Waldner
3) Zhang Jike
4) Kong Linghui
5) Liu Guoliang
6) Wang Liqin
7) Wang Hao
8) Ma Lin
9) Jiang Jialiang
10) Timo Boll
Fan zendong, Persson, Barna???
WLQ over ZJK???
Zjk >= wang liqin
Where are Persson, Samsonov and Schlager? The ones who could beat the most formidable Chinese guys not once, but two in a row in one tournament.
below top ten
@@riatsudni8563These people’s achievements is better than that of Xu Xin and Timo ball.
Timo boll is my inspiration❤
Was ist mit Werner Schlager Gewinner 2003? Samsunov? Beide wohl international erfolgreicher als Timo in ihrer Zeit.
If timo ball and Xu Xin were on the list , Schlager and Samsunov should be on the list as well.
Forest Gump beat them all 😂😂😂
But Stellan Bengtsson did beat Forrest back in 1971.
Now fan is number 2 but number one always will be Ma long
Fan Zhendong is missing
Jiang jialiang?
Waldner lasted at the international level way longer than these other guys by a huge margin, 30 years. I think he lost the bronze metal match in the 2004 Olympics when he was 39. He was once asked after he won an Olympic match against a Chinese player, “didn’t you play against his coach in the Olympics?” He said he actually played against his coaches coach in the Olympics too. Chinese call him Evergreen Tree because he’s been around so long. Lots of players a great for maybe 3 or 4 years at the peak of their physicality, Waldner did it for 30.
Waldner won international tournaments from 1989 to 1998.After 1999 he never won any international tournaments. Basically father time beat all top players.
Table Tennis must be divided into 2 eras.
The authentic TT and the hybrid TT.
The fast and spinny genuine TT and the slow and dead fake TT.
A few players mentioned in this list were successful in both eras. Waldner, Ma Lin, and Kong Ling Hui. Wang Liqin was really good after TT became fake TT. Ma Lin was about to dominate TT but fake TT diminished his competitiveness because he was a penholder who mainly relied on his spinny service game and speedy and spinny forehand loopdrives.
Lui Guoliang is an easy 3rd or 4th behind Zhang Jike but not beyond that. He is the first Asian to win a career Grand Slam